Mixing
I gave my players far too much wealth and they have far too much power. What do I do to get things back on track?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
Very recently I made a huge miscalculation during my D&D campaign.
The players in my D&D campaign were chasing after several pieces of a broken magical item. They had been spending their time researching in the capital and were slowly finding more info about these pieces.
They eventually found out that one piece was being protected by an adult green dragon, so naturally this team of 4 level 6 adventurers went on to take it from the dragon.
What I had planned was a stealth encounter where they would have to sneak by the dragon slowly, while trying to get closer to his huge gold pile where the fragment was, and possibly reward them with a minor magic item.
However, they decided to rush forward and kill the dragon for reasons unbeknownst to me. They somehow succeeded; nat 20 after nat 20 they kept destroying the dragon and eventually succeeding. So naturally they took his entire gold pile of gems and magic items back to the capital and have now gotten themselves a huge amount of other magic items and have blown the balancing system completely out of the water.
Encounters that should be around their difficulty have suddenly become way too easy, and puzzles and problems have become even easier with all of their new magical items. I know if this continues they will become either bored or they will become power obsessed murder-hobos.
I have no idea how to actually balance this back without striping them of their magic items completely (which I know will piss them off). How can I correct this mistake and balance things back out? What can I do to get things back on track?
dnd-5e magic-items balance wealth
edited 14 hours ago
Purple Monkey
35.7k7140220
asked 15 hours ago
ElectroBro
361
New contributor
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
Very recently I made a huge miscalculation during my D&D campaign.
The players in my D&D campaign were chasing after several pieces of a broken magical item. They had been spending their time researching in the capital and were slowly finding more info about these pieces.
They eventually found out that one piece was being protected by an adult green dragon, so naturally this team of 4 level 6 adventurers went on to take it from the dragon.
What I had planned was a stealth encounter where they would have to sneak by the dragon slowly, while trying to get closer to his huge gold pile where the fragment was, and possibly reward them with a minor magic item.
However, they decided to rush forward and kill the dragon for reasons unbeknownst to me. They somehow succeeded; nat 20 after nat 20 they kept destroying the dragon and eventually succeeding. So naturally they took his entire gold pile of gems and magic items back to the capital and have now gotten themselves a huge amount of other magic items and have blown the balancing system completely out of the water.
Encounters that should be around their difficulty have suddenly become way too easy, and puzzles and problems have become even easier with all of their new magical items. I know if this continues they will become either bored or they will become power obsessed murder-hobos.
I have no idea how to actually balance this back without striping them of their magic items completely (which I know will piss them off). How can I correct this mistake and balance things back out? What can I do to get things back on track?
dnd-5e magic-items balance wealth
edited 14 hours ago
Purple Monkey
35.7k7140220
asked 15 hours ago
ElectroBro
361
New contributor
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Despite it being for a different system, you may be interested in this question.
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
1
Welcome to the site! Take the tour. I am certain you're not the first DM who's an issue like this, so don't take it personally if this question ends up closed as a duplicate of another on the site or if folks (like me!) refer you to other questions that may help your situation. No matter what, though, good luck, thank you for participating, and have fun!
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
3
@Slagmoth O, I agree that the question is system agnostic — O, crap! I gave my PCs too much stuff! is kind of universal —, but I think the answers are likely to be (to some degree, anyway) system-specific. (Champions would have this problem handled differently from Seventh Sea, for example.)
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
5
@Slagmoth Honestly, that's a red herring. The querent is playing D&D 5e, and experienced this problem in D&D 5e, so we're tagging it as that. Solutions should be mindful of that and present a solution that works in their context, as well as information about how to avoid that in their specific context--and there is D&D 5e-specific context here with what's happened and specific things which were missed or which can be done. "This might happen in other systems!" -- OK, great, but explain to them how this should be examined and addressed in this system.
– doppelspooker♦
14 hours ago
1
Related: How do I depower overpowered magic items without breaking immersion?, Getting Rid of a Magic Item, How can I take a powerful plot item away from players without frustrating them?, How can I restore balance to this unbalanced party?.
– Purple Monkey
14 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
up vote
7
down vote
favorite
Very recently I made a huge miscalculation during my D&D campaign.
The players in my D&D campaign were chasing after several pieces of a broken magical item. They had been spending their time researching in the capital and were slowly finding more info about these pieces.
They eventually found out that one piece was being protected by an adult green dragon, so naturally this team of 4 level 6 adventurers went on to take it from the dragon.
What I had planned was a stealth encounter where they would have to sneak by the dragon slowly, while trying to get closer to his huge gold pile where the fragment was, and possibly reward them with a minor magic item.
However, they decided to rush forward and kill the dragon for reasons unbeknownst to me. They somehow succeeded; nat 20 after nat 20 they kept destroying the dragon and eventually succeeding. So naturally they took his entire gold pile of gems and magic items back to the capital and have now gotten themselves a huge amount of other magic items and have blown the balancing system completely out of the water.
Encounters that should be around their difficulty have suddenly become way too easy, and puzzles and problems have become even easier with all of their new magical items. I know if this continues they will become either bored or they will become power obsessed murder-hobos.
I have no idea how to actually balance this back without striping them of their magic items completely (which I know will piss them off). How can I correct this mistake and balance things back out? What can I do to get things back on track?
dnd-5e magic-items balance wealth
edited 14 hours ago
Purple Monkey
35.7k7140220
asked 15 hours ago
ElectroBro
361
New contributor
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Very recently I made a huge miscalculation during my D&D campaign.
The players in my D&D campaign were chasing after several pieces of a broken magical item. They had been spending their time researching in the capital and were slowly finding more info about these pieces.
They eventually found out that one piece was being protected by an adult green dragon, so naturally this team of 4 level 6 adventurers went on to take it from the dragon.
What I had planned was a stealth encounter where they would have to sneak by the dragon slowly, while trying to get closer to his huge gold pile where the fragment was, and possibly reward them with a minor magic item.
However, they decided to rush forward and kill the dragon for reasons unbeknownst to me. They somehow succeeded; nat 20 after nat 20 they kept destroying the dragon and eventually succeeding. So naturally they took his entire gold pile of gems and magic items back to the capital and have now gotten themselves a huge amount of other magic items and have blown the balancing system completely out of the water.
Encounters that should be around their difficulty have suddenly become way too easy, and puzzles and problems have become even easier with all of their new magical items. I know if this continues they will become either bored or they will become power obsessed murder-hobos.
I have no idea how to actually balance this back without striping them of their magic items completely (which I know will piss them off). How can I correct this mistake and balance things back out? What can I do to get things back on track?
dnd-5e magic-items balance wealth
dnd-5e magic-items balance wealth
edited 14 hours ago
Purple Monkey
35.7k7140220
asked 15 hours ago
ElectroBro
361
New contributor
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 14 hours ago
Purple Monkey
35.7k7140220
asked 15 hours ago
ElectroBro
361
New contributor
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 14 hours ago
Purple Monkey
35.7k7140220
edited 14 hours ago
Purple Monkey
35.7k7140220
edited 14 hours ago
Purple Monkey
35.7k7140220
35.7k7140220
asked 15 hours ago
ElectroBro
361
New contributor
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 15 hours ago
ElectroBro
361
asked 15 hours ago
ElectroBro
361
361
New contributor
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
ElectroBro is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Despite it being for a different system, you may be interested in this question.
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
1
Welcome to the site! Take the tour. I am certain you're not the first DM who's an issue like this, so don't take it personally if this question ends up closed as a duplicate of another on the site or if folks (like me!) refer you to other questions that may help your situation. No matter what, though, good luck, thank you for participating, and have fun!
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
3
@Slagmoth O, I agree that the question is system agnostic — O, crap! I gave my PCs too much stuff! is kind of universal —, but I think the answers are likely to be (to some degree, anyway) system-specific. (Champions would have this problem handled differently from Seventh Sea, for example.)
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
5
@Slagmoth Honestly, that's a red herring. The querent is playing D&D 5e, and experienced this problem in D&D 5e, so we're tagging it as that. Solutions should be mindful of that and present a solution that works in their context, as well as information about how to avoid that in their specific context--and there is D&D 5e-specific context here with what's happened and specific things which were missed or which can be done. "This might happen in other systems!" -- OK, great, but explain to them how this should be examined and addressed in this system.
– doppelspooker♦
14 hours ago
1
Related: How do I depower overpowered magic items without breaking immersion?, Getting Rid of a Magic Item, How can I take a powerful plot item away from players without frustrating them?, How can I restore balance to this unbalanced party?.
– Purple Monkey
14 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
1
Despite it being for a different system, you may be interested in this question.
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
1
Welcome to the site! Take the tour. I am certain you're not the first DM who's an issue like this, so don't take it personally if this question ends up closed as a duplicate of another on the site or if folks (like me!) refer you to other questions that may help your situation. No matter what, though, good luck, thank you for participating, and have fun!
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
3
@Slagmoth O, I agree that the question is system agnostic — O, crap! I gave my PCs too much stuff! is kind of universal —, but I think the answers are likely to be (to some degree, anyway) system-specific. (Champions would have this problem handled differently from Seventh Sea, for example.)
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
5
@Slagmoth Honestly, that's a red herring. The querent is playing D&D 5e, and experienced this problem in D&D 5e, so we're tagging it as that. Solutions should be mindful of that and present a solution that works in their context, as well as information about how to avoid that in their specific context--and there is D&D 5e-specific context here with what's happened and specific things which were missed or which can be done. "This might happen in other systems!" -- OK, great, but explain to them how this should be examined and addressed in this system.
– doppelspooker♦
14 hours ago
1
Related: How do I depower overpowered magic items without breaking immersion?, Getting Rid of a Magic Item, How can I take a powerful plot item away from players without frustrating them?, How can I restore balance to this unbalanced party?.
– Purple Monkey
14 hours ago
1
1
Despite it being for a different system, you may be interested in this question.
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
Despite it being for a different system, you may be interested in this question.
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
1
1
Welcome to the site! Take the tour. I am certain you're not the first DM who's an issue like this, so don't take it personally if this question ends up closed as a duplicate of another on the site or if folks (like me!) refer you to other questions that may help your situation. No matter what, though, good luck, thank you for participating, and have fun!
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
Welcome to the site! Take the tour. I am certain you're not the first DM who's an issue like this, so don't take it personally if this question ends up closed as a duplicate of another on the site or if folks (like me!) refer you to other questions that may help your situation. No matter what, though, good luck, thank you for participating, and have fun!
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
3
3
@Slagmoth O, I agree that the question is system agnostic — O, crap! I gave my PCs too much stuff! is kind of universal —, but I think the answers are likely to be (to some degree, anyway) system-specific. (Champions would have this problem handled differently from Seventh Sea, for example.)
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
@Slagmoth O, I agree that the question is system agnostic — O, crap! I gave my PCs too much stuff! is kind of universal —, but I think the answers are likely to be (to some degree, anyway) system-specific. (Champions would have this problem handled differently from Seventh Sea, for example.)
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
5
5
@Slagmoth Honestly, that's a red herring. The querent is playing D&D 5e, and experienced this problem in D&D 5e, so we're tagging it as that. Solutions should be mindful of that and present a solution that works in their context, as well as information about how to avoid that in their specific context--and there is D&D 5e-specific context here with what's happened and specific things which were missed or which can be done. "This might happen in other systems!" -- OK, great, but explain to them how this should be examined and addressed in this system.
– doppelspooker♦
14 hours ago
@Slagmoth Honestly, that's a red herring. The querent is playing D&D 5e, and experienced this problem in D&D 5e, so we're tagging it as that. Solutions should be mindful of that and present a solution that works in their context, as well as information about how to avoid that in their specific context--and there is D&D 5e-specific context here with what's happened and specific things which were missed or which can be done. "This might happen in other systems!" -- OK, great, but explain to them how this should be examined and addressed in this system.
– doppelspooker♦
14 hours ago
1
1
Related: How do I depower overpowered magic items without breaking immersion?, Getting Rid of a Magic Item, How can I take a powerful plot item away from players without frustrating them?, How can I restore balance to this unbalanced party?.
– Purple Monkey
14 hours ago
Related: How do I depower overpowered magic items without breaking immersion?, Getting Rid of a Magic Item, How can I take a powerful plot item away from players without frustrating them?, How can I restore balance to this unbalanced party?.
– Purple Monkey
14 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
Consider that "sudden, undeserved wealth" is a fantastic story hook.
The party is now famous. Against all odds they defeated the dragon and spent its treasure with abandon at all the best shops in town. The tale is going to spread of a band of adventurers and their dragon's hoard. Bards are going to sing about it in taverns far and wide.
This kind of thing is going to attract attention, not all of it good. The party is famous for having lots of cool stuff, but they're also heavily rumoured to have acquired it more through luck than skill. Somebody, maybe more than one somebody, is going to see this as an opportunity.
Who can they trust? Can they trust anyone ever again?
answered 4 hours ago
Charles Miller
512
New contributor
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
So, your first mistake was allowing the players to go to Fantasy Costco and freely spend their wealth on magic items. Magical items aren't purchasable by default; the only things players can buy are what you say they can buy. The Dungeon Master's Guide discusses this on p.135.
But it's done, so what can you do to fix it?
1. They might be cheating.
My first thought is that there are some kind of shenanigans going on here. Even having a lot of items should really only increase the characters' capabilities so much because of the way bounded accuracy and attunement (DMG p.136) work. If the items are allowing the party to punch way above their weight class, it makes me suspect something isn't quite right on the "following the rules" side.
Look carefully at each item and makes sure they aren't exceeding the limits on how many attuned items they can use at once. That's the single largest balancing factor that prevents magic item abuse. To wit, each character can have only three items attuned, and only one of any specific item.
Make sure the players are accurately tracking how many charges their items are using and recovering. Sure, a staff of frost might let you use cone of cold long before you should have access to it, but that also spends 5 of its 10 charges, so two shots of that and it's dead, and it only regains 1d6+4 per day. Plus it's attuned, so see previous point on that front.
2. Wait it out.
If they're hitting harder than expected, it might not actually be a big deal. They'll level up faster, so they'll soon be back on the right level for the amount of stuff they have, and the problem will rapidly become less of an issue. You best bet might just be accepting that they'll be unusually tough for their level for a while.
3. Talk it out.
If you can't wait for them to just naturally even out, maybe the best thing is just an honest discussion with the players. "Hey, I made a mistake when I let you buy all that stuff, and it's messing up the game. We need to fix this, but I don't want to impose a fix on you. So can we come up with a story together that removes the strongest items from your characters?"
Maybe your players will resist losing their power fantasy, but in most groups the players are more than willing to work with you on something like that, and may come up with a much more interesting story than anything you could've made on your own. (And I find that surprising the players with story twists is overrated anyway.)
4. Hit them in the dump stat.
I don't mean this literally; but rather aim for where the characters will be weak. If you can't or won't remove the items and they're playing legally, then upping the challenge is your main route. In this case, HP is probably their most vulnerable point. The characters are probably 'glass cannons' -- that is, they hit hard but can't take much damage in return. One or two tough monsters that can just deal out the damage will be a bigger challenge than a swarm of smaller monsters that don't hit as hard. I'm not saying you should kill the party, just that you may need to adjust encounters to focus more on big beefy enemies.
answered 7 hours ago
Darth Pseudonym
5,6791133
1
You dont have to cheat with good items, a simple +2 Greatsword can increase your damage output by 40%, more if you have GWM. No attunement required.
– András
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Usually this sort of problem can be solved by making the encounters larger. Instead of fighting three CR2 giant boars, make them fight six CR2 giant boars -- et cetera, et cetera. Usually when I do this, I adjust the combat difficulty dynamically: if the first three monsters go down too fast, I tell the players that three more were hiding in the bushes.
If your problem is that the characters have too much AC, you might need to make the individual monsters actually harder: give all monsters +1 to hit, or make sure to use monsters that don't target AC. For example you could replace the CR2 giant boars with CR3 hell hounds, and trust that their fire breath would reliably deal damage even against high-AC targets.
So far as magic items go, you should start by checking the attunement rules. You wrote that your players all have lots of magic items, but remember that each can only be attuned to three magic items. How many of those magic items require attunement?
Also: it might be too late for this advice, but you're not required to sell the group magic items at all. In many settings, magic items are just really rare and cannot be bought for money.
One solution I use sometimes is to end the campaign. Who's the final villain for your group? Give them a chance to fight him early, and when they win, tell them the campaign is over and they have won. Then tell them you're starting a new campaign, in the same setting, which they will use new characters for. I do this sometimes (not always in the same setting) and I find it's a good way to reset character progression without annoying my players.
answered 11 hours ago
Dan B
32.3k758123
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
Consider that "sudden, undeserved wealth" is a fantastic story hook.
The party is now famous. Against all odds they defeated the dragon and spent its treasure with abandon at all the best shops in town. The tale is going to spread of a band of adventurers and their dragon's hoard. Bards are going to sing about it in taverns far and wide.
This kind of thing is going to attract attention, not all of it good. The party is famous for having lots of cool stuff, but they're also heavily rumoured to have acquired it more through luck than skill. Somebody, maybe more than one somebody, is going to see this as an opportunity.
Who can they trust? Can they trust anyone ever again?
answered 4 hours ago
Charles Miller
512
New contributor
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
Consider that "sudden, undeserved wealth" is a fantastic story hook.
The party is now famous. Against all odds they defeated the dragon and spent its treasure with abandon at all the best shops in town. The tale is going to spread of a band of adventurers and their dragon's hoard. Bards are going to sing about it in taverns far and wide.
This kind of thing is going to attract attention, not all of it good. The party is famous for having lots of cool stuff, but they're also heavily rumoured to have acquired it more through luck than skill. Somebody, maybe more than one somebody, is going to see this as an opportunity.
Who can they trust? Can they trust anyone ever again?
answered 4 hours ago
Charles Miller
512
New contributor
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
Consider that "sudden, undeserved wealth" is a fantastic story hook.
The party is now famous. Against all odds they defeated the dragon and spent its treasure with abandon at all the best shops in town. The tale is going to spread of a band of adventurers and their dragon's hoard. Bards are going to sing about it in taverns far and wide.
This kind of thing is going to attract attention, not all of it good. The party is famous for having lots of cool stuff, but they're also heavily rumoured to have acquired it more through luck than skill. Somebody, maybe more than one somebody, is going to see this as an opportunity.
Who can they trust? Can they trust anyone ever again?
answered 4 hours ago
Charles Miller
512
New contributor
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Consider that "sudden, undeserved wealth" is a fantastic story hook.
The party is now famous. Against all odds they defeated the dragon and spent its treasure with abandon at all the best shops in town. The tale is going to spread of a band of adventurers and their dragon's hoard. Bards are going to sing about it in taverns far and wide.
This kind of thing is going to attract attention, not all of it good. The party is famous for having lots of cool stuff, but they're also heavily rumoured to have acquired it more through luck than skill. Somebody, maybe more than one somebody, is going to see this as an opportunity.
Who can they trust? Can they trust anyone ever again?
answered 4 hours ago
Charles Miller
512
New contributor
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 4 hours ago
Charles Miller
512
New contributor
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 4 hours ago
Charles Miller
512
answered 4 hours ago
Charles Miller
512
512
New contributor
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Charles Miller is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
So, your first mistake was allowing the players to go to Fantasy Costco and freely spend their wealth on magic items. Magical items aren't purchasable by default; the only things players can buy are what you say they can buy. The Dungeon Master's Guide discusses this on p.135.
But it's done, so what can you do to fix it?
1. They might be cheating.
My first thought is that there are some kind of shenanigans going on here. Even having a lot of items should really only increase the characters' capabilities so much because of the way bounded accuracy and attunement (DMG p.136) work. If the items are allowing the party to punch way above their weight class, it makes me suspect something isn't quite right on the "following the rules" side.
Look carefully at each item and makes sure they aren't exceeding the limits on how many attuned items they can use at once. That's the single largest balancing factor that prevents magic item abuse. To wit, each character can have only three items attuned, and only one of any specific item.
Make sure the players are accurately tracking how many charges their items are using and recovering. Sure, a staff of frost might let you use cone of cold long before you should have access to it, but that also spends 5 of its 10 charges, so two shots of that and it's dead, and it only regains 1d6+4 per day. Plus it's attuned, so see previous point on that front.
2. Wait it out.
If they're hitting harder than expected, it might not actually be a big deal. They'll level up faster, so they'll soon be back on the right level for the amount of stuff they have, and the problem will rapidly become less of an issue. You best bet might just be accepting that they'll be unusually tough for their level for a while.
3. Talk it out.
If you can't wait for them to just naturally even out, maybe the best thing is just an honest discussion with the players. "Hey, I made a mistake when I let you buy all that stuff, and it's messing up the game. We need to fix this, but I don't want to impose a fix on you. So can we come up with a story together that removes the strongest items from your characters?"
Maybe your players will resist losing their power fantasy, but in most groups the players are more than willing to work with you on something like that, and may come up with a much more interesting story than anything you could've made on your own. (And I find that surprising the players with story twists is overrated anyway.)
4. Hit them in the dump stat.
I don't mean this literally; but rather aim for where the characters will be weak. If you can't or won't remove the items and they're playing legally, then upping the challenge is your main route. In this case, HP is probably their most vulnerable point. The characters are probably 'glass cannons' -- that is, they hit hard but can't take much damage in return. One or two tough monsters that can just deal out the damage will be a bigger challenge than a swarm of smaller monsters that don't hit as hard. I'm not saying you should kill the party, just that you may need to adjust encounters to focus more on big beefy enemies.
answered 7 hours ago
Darth Pseudonym
5,6791133
1
You dont have to cheat with good items, a simple +2 Greatsword can increase your damage output by 40%, more if you have GWM. No attunement required.
– András
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
So, your first mistake was allowing the players to go to Fantasy Costco and freely spend their wealth on magic items. Magical items aren't purchasable by default; the only things players can buy are what you say they can buy. The Dungeon Master's Guide discusses this on p.135.
But it's done, so what can you do to fix it?
1. They might be cheating.
My first thought is that there are some kind of shenanigans going on here. Even having a lot of items should really only increase the characters' capabilities so much because of the way bounded accuracy and attunement (DMG p.136) work. If the items are allowing the party to punch way above their weight class, it makes me suspect something isn't quite right on the "following the rules" side.
Look carefully at each item and makes sure they aren't exceeding the limits on how many attuned items they can use at once. That's the single largest balancing factor that prevents magic item abuse. To wit, each character can have only three items attuned, and only one of any specific item.
Make sure the players are accurately tracking how many charges their items are using and recovering. Sure, a staff of frost might let you use cone of cold long before you should have access to it, but that also spends 5 of its 10 charges, so two shots of that and it's dead, and it only regains 1d6+4 per day. Plus it's attuned, so see previous point on that front.
2. Wait it out.
If they're hitting harder than expected, it might not actually be a big deal. They'll level up faster, so they'll soon be back on the right level for the amount of stuff they have, and the problem will rapidly become less of an issue. You best bet might just be accepting that they'll be unusually tough for their level for a while.
3. Talk it out.
If you can't wait for them to just naturally even out, maybe the best thing is just an honest discussion with the players. "Hey, I made a mistake when I let you buy all that stuff, and it's messing up the game. We need to fix this, but I don't want to impose a fix on you. So can we come up with a story together that removes the strongest items from your characters?"
Maybe your players will resist losing their power fantasy, but in most groups the players are more than willing to work with you on something like that, and may come up with a much more interesting story than anything you could've made on your own. (And I find that surprising the players with story twists is overrated anyway.)
4. Hit them in the dump stat.
I don't mean this literally; but rather aim for where the characters will be weak. If you can't or won't remove the items and they're playing legally, then upping the challenge is your main route. In this case, HP is probably their most vulnerable point. The characters are probably 'glass cannons' -- that is, they hit hard but can't take much damage in return. One or two tough monsters that can just deal out the damage will be a bigger challenge than a swarm of smaller monsters that don't hit as hard. I'm not saying you should kill the party, just that you may need to adjust encounters to focus more on big beefy enemies.
answered 7 hours ago
Darth Pseudonym
5,6791133
1
You dont have to cheat with good items, a simple +2 Greatsword can increase your damage output by 40%, more if you have GWM. No attunement required.
– András
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
So, your first mistake was allowing the players to go to Fantasy Costco and freely spend their wealth on magic items. Magical items aren't purchasable by default; the only things players can buy are what you say they can buy. The Dungeon Master's Guide discusses this on p.135.
But it's done, so what can you do to fix it?
1. They might be cheating.
My first thought is that there are some kind of shenanigans going on here. Even having a lot of items should really only increase the characters' capabilities so much because of the way bounded accuracy and attunement (DMG p.136) work. If the items are allowing the party to punch way above their weight class, it makes me suspect something isn't quite right on the "following the rules" side.
Look carefully at each item and makes sure they aren't exceeding the limits on how many attuned items they can use at once. That's the single largest balancing factor that prevents magic item abuse. To wit, each character can have only three items attuned, and only one of any specific item.
Make sure the players are accurately tracking how many charges their items are using and recovering. Sure, a staff of frost might let you use cone of cold long before you should have access to it, but that also spends 5 of its 10 charges, so two shots of that and it's dead, and it only regains 1d6+4 per day. Plus it's attuned, so see previous point on that front.
2. Wait it out.
If they're hitting harder than expected, it might not actually be a big deal. They'll level up faster, so they'll soon be back on the right level for the amount of stuff they have, and the problem will rapidly become less of an issue. You best bet might just be accepting that they'll be unusually tough for their level for a while.
3. Talk it out.
If you can't wait for them to just naturally even out, maybe the best thing is just an honest discussion with the players. "Hey, I made a mistake when I let you buy all that stuff, and it's messing up the game. We need to fix this, but I don't want to impose a fix on you. So can we come up with a story together that removes the strongest items from your characters?"
Maybe your players will resist losing their power fantasy, but in most groups the players are more than willing to work with you on something like that, and may come up with a much more interesting story than anything you could've made on your own. (And I find that surprising the players with story twists is overrated anyway.)
4. Hit them in the dump stat.
I don't mean this literally; but rather aim for where the characters will be weak. If you can't or won't remove the items and they're playing legally, then upping the challenge is your main route. In this case, HP is probably their most vulnerable point. The characters are probably 'glass cannons' -- that is, they hit hard but can't take much damage in return. One or two tough monsters that can just deal out the damage will be a bigger challenge than a swarm of smaller monsters that don't hit as hard. I'm not saying you should kill the party, just that you may need to adjust encounters to focus more on big beefy enemies.
answered 7 hours ago
Darth Pseudonym
5,6791133
So, your first mistake was allowing the players to go to Fantasy Costco and freely spend their wealth on magic items. Magical items aren't purchasable by default; the only things players can buy are what you say they can buy. The Dungeon Master's Guide discusses this on p.135.
But it's done, so what can you do to fix it?
1. They might be cheating.
My first thought is that there are some kind of shenanigans going on here. Even having a lot of items should really only increase the characters' capabilities so much because of the way bounded accuracy and attunement (DMG p.136) work. If the items are allowing the party to punch way above their weight class, it makes me suspect something isn't quite right on the "following the rules" side.
Look carefully at each item and makes sure they aren't exceeding the limits on how many attuned items they can use at once. That's the single largest balancing factor that prevents magic item abuse. To wit, each character can have only three items attuned, and only one of any specific item.
Make sure the players are accurately tracking how many charges their items are using and recovering. Sure, a staff of frost might let you use cone of cold long before you should have access to it, but that also spends 5 of its 10 charges, so two shots of that and it's dead, and it only regains 1d6+4 per day. Plus it's attuned, so see previous point on that front.
2. Wait it out.
If they're hitting harder than expected, it might not actually be a big deal. They'll level up faster, so they'll soon be back on the right level for the amount of stuff they have, and the problem will rapidly become less of an issue. You best bet might just be accepting that they'll be unusually tough for their level for a while.
3. Talk it out.
If you can't wait for them to just naturally even out, maybe the best thing is just an honest discussion with the players. "Hey, I made a mistake when I let you buy all that stuff, and it's messing up the game. We need to fix this, but I don't want to impose a fix on you. So can we come up with a story together that removes the strongest items from your characters?"
Maybe your players will resist losing their power fantasy, but in most groups the players are more than willing to work with you on something like that, and may come up with a much more interesting story than anything you could've made on your own. (And I find that surprising the players with story twists is overrated anyway.)
4. Hit them in the dump stat.
I don't mean this literally; but rather aim for where the characters will be weak. If you can't or won't remove the items and they're playing legally, then upping the challenge is your main route. In this case, HP is probably their most vulnerable point. The characters are probably 'glass cannons' -- that is, they hit hard but can't take much damage in return. One or two tough monsters that can just deal out the damage will be a bigger challenge than a swarm of smaller monsters that don't hit as hard. I'm not saying you should kill the party, just that you may need to adjust encounters to focus more on big beefy enemies.
answered 7 hours ago
Darth Pseudonym
5,6791133
edited 25 mins ago
answered 7 hours ago
Darth Pseudonym
5,6791133
answered 7 hours ago
Darth Pseudonym
5,6791133
answered 7 hours ago
Darth Pseudonym
5,6791133
5,6791133
1
You dont have to cheat with good items, a simple +2 Greatsword can increase your damage output by 40%, more if you have GWM. No attunement required.
– András
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
You dont have to cheat with good items, a simple +2 Greatsword can increase your damage output by 40%, more if you have GWM. No attunement required.
– András
2 hours ago
1
1
You dont have to cheat with good items, a simple +2 Greatsword can increase your damage output by 40%, more if you have GWM. No attunement required.
– András
2 hours ago
You dont have to cheat with good items, a simple +2 Greatsword can increase your damage output by 40%, more if you have GWM. No attunement required.
– András
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Usually this sort of problem can be solved by making the encounters larger. Instead of fighting three CR2 giant boars, make them fight six CR2 giant boars -- et cetera, et cetera. Usually when I do this, I adjust the combat difficulty dynamically: if the first three monsters go down too fast, I tell the players that three more were hiding in the bushes.
If your problem is that the characters have too much AC, you might need to make the individual monsters actually harder: give all monsters +1 to hit, or make sure to use monsters that don't target AC. For example you could replace the CR2 giant boars with CR3 hell hounds, and trust that their fire breath would reliably deal damage even against high-AC targets.
So far as magic items go, you should start by checking the attunement rules. You wrote that your players all have lots of magic items, but remember that each can only be attuned to three magic items. How many of those magic items require attunement?
Also: it might be too late for this advice, but you're not required to sell the group magic items at all. In many settings, magic items are just really rare and cannot be bought for money.
One solution I use sometimes is to end the campaign. Who's the final villain for your group? Give them a chance to fight him early, and when they win, tell them the campaign is over and they have won. Then tell them you're starting a new campaign, in the same setting, which they will use new characters for. I do this sometimes (not always in the same setting) and I find it's a good way to reset character progression without annoying my players.
answered 11 hours ago
Dan B
32.3k758123
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Usually this sort of problem can be solved by making the encounters larger. Instead of fighting three CR2 giant boars, make them fight six CR2 giant boars -- et cetera, et cetera. Usually when I do this, I adjust the combat difficulty dynamically: if the first three monsters go down too fast, I tell the players that three more were hiding in the bushes.
If your problem is that the characters have too much AC, you might need to make the individual monsters actually harder: give all monsters +1 to hit, or make sure to use monsters that don't target AC. For example you could replace the CR2 giant boars with CR3 hell hounds, and trust that their fire breath would reliably deal damage even against high-AC targets.
So far as magic items go, you should start by checking the attunement rules. You wrote that your players all have lots of magic items, but remember that each can only be attuned to three magic items. How many of those magic items require attunement?
Also: it might be too late for this advice, but you're not required to sell the group magic items at all. In many settings, magic items are just really rare and cannot be bought for money.
One solution I use sometimes is to end the campaign. Who's the final villain for your group? Give them a chance to fight him early, and when they win, tell them the campaign is over and they have won. Then tell them you're starting a new campaign, in the same setting, which they will use new characters for. I do this sometimes (not always in the same setting) and I find it's a good way to reset character progression without annoying my players.
answered 11 hours ago
Dan B
32.3k758123
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Usually this sort of problem can be solved by making the encounters larger. Instead of fighting three CR2 giant boars, make them fight six CR2 giant boars -- et cetera, et cetera. Usually when I do this, I adjust the combat difficulty dynamically: if the first three monsters go down too fast, I tell the players that three more were hiding in the bushes.
If your problem is that the characters have too much AC, you might need to make the individual monsters actually harder: give all monsters +1 to hit, or make sure to use monsters that don't target AC. For example you could replace the CR2 giant boars with CR3 hell hounds, and trust that their fire breath would reliably deal damage even against high-AC targets.
So far as magic items go, you should start by checking the attunement rules. You wrote that your players all have lots of magic items, but remember that each can only be attuned to three magic items. How many of those magic items require attunement?
Also: it might be too late for this advice, but you're not required to sell the group magic items at all. In many settings, magic items are just really rare and cannot be bought for money.
One solution I use sometimes is to end the campaign. Who's the final villain for your group? Give them a chance to fight him early, and when they win, tell them the campaign is over and they have won. Then tell them you're starting a new campaign, in the same setting, which they will use new characters for. I do this sometimes (not always in the same setting) and I find it's a good way to reset character progression without annoying my players.
answered 11 hours ago
Dan B
32.3k758123
Usually this sort of problem can be solved by making the encounters larger. Instead of fighting three CR2 giant boars, make them fight six CR2 giant boars -- et cetera, et cetera. Usually when I do this, I adjust the combat difficulty dynamically: if the first three monsters go down too fast, I tell the players that three more were hiding in the bushes.
If your problem is that the characters have too much AC, you might need to make the individual monsters actually harder: give all monsters +1 to hit, or make sure to use monsters that don't target AC. For example you could replace the CR2 giant boars with CR3 hell hounds, and trust that their fire breath would reliably deal damage even against high-AC targets.
So far as magic items go, you should start by checking the attunement rules. You wrote that your players all have lots of magic items, but remember that each can only be attuned to three magic items. How many of those magic items require attunement?
Also: it might be too late for this advice, but you're not required to sell the group magic items at all. In many settings, magic items are just really rare and cannot be bought for money.
One solution I use sometimes is to end the campaign. Who's the final villain for your group? Give them a chance to fight him early, and when they win, tell them the campaign is over and they have won. Then tell them you're starting a new campaign, in the same setting, which they will use new characters for. I do this sometimes (not always in the same setting) and I find it's a good way to reset character progression without annoying my players.
answered 11 hours ago
Dan B
32.3k758123
answered 11 hours ago
Dan B
32.3k758123
answered 11 hours ago
Dan B
32.3k758123
answered 11 hours ago
Dan B
32.3k758123
32.3k758123
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
ElectroBro is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
ElectroBro is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
ElectroBro is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
ElectroBro is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f133123%2fi-gave-my-players-far-too-much-wealth-and-they-have-far-too-much-power-what-do%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
1
Despite it being for a different system, you may be interested in this question.
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
1
Welcome to the site! Take the tour. I am certain you're not the first DM who's an issue like this, so don't take it personally if this question ends up closed as a duplicate of another on the site or if folks (like me!) refer you to other questions that may help your situation. No matter what, though, good luck, thank you for participating, and have fun!
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
3
@Slagmoth O, I agree that the question is system agnostic — O, crap! I gave my PCs too much stuff! is kind of universal —, but I think the answers are likely to be (to some degree, anyway) system-specific. (Champions would have this problem handled differently from Seventh Sea, for example.)
– Hey I Can Chan
14 hours ago
5
@Slagmoth Honestly, that's a red herring. The querent is playing D&D 5e, and experienced this problem in D&D 5e, so we're tagging it as that. Solutions should be mindful of that and present a solution that works in their context, as well as information about how to avoid that in their specific context--and there is D&D 5e-specific context here with what's happened and specific things which were missed or which can be done. "This might happen in other systems!" -- OK, great, but explain to them how this should be examined and addressed in this system.
– doppelspooker♦
14 hours ago
1
Related: How do I depower overpowered magic items without breaking immersion?, Getting Rid of a Magic Item, How can I take a powerful plot item away from players without frustrating them?, How can I restore balance to this unbalanced party?.
– Purple Monkey
14 hours ago