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Why offload bags for missing passengers when flights are allowed to carry unaccompanied non-PAX air-cargo in holds?
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Several times, my flight has been delayed when passengers don't make it to the gate in time and then (after a long wait) the baggage-handlers have to go into the holds and manually find the bags to offload.
First, is this a legal requirement? Do all carriers follow this same practice?
If so, then why is this a security risk any greater than the same flight anyways carrying air-cargo in its hold? Flights do that, correct? Not all cargo space is filled with checked-in baggage?
Does anyone know the rationale behind this calculation? If the hold anyways contains unaccompanied cargo then why treat unaccompanied passenger baggage as a high risk?
Also, historically, is there a record of such offloaded bags (for missing passengers) actually turning out to be containing explosives?
airline-operations security
asked 5 hours ago
curious_cat
4,19412471
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Several times, my flight has been delayed when passengers don't make it to the gate in time and then (after a long wait) the baggage-handlers have to go into the holds and manually find the bags to offload.
First, is this a legal requirement? Do all carriers follow this same practice?
If so, then why is this a security risk any greater than the same flight anyways carrying air-cargo in its hold? Flights do that, correct? Not all cargo space is filled with checked-in baggage?
Does anyone know the rationale behind this calculation? If the hold anyways contains unaccompanied cargo then why treat unaccompanied passenger baggage as a high risk?
Also, historically, is there a record of such offloaded bags (for missing passengers) actually turning out to be containing explosives?
airline-operations security
asked 5 hours ago
curious_cat
4,19412471
4
Historically, Pan Am 103 was brought down by a bomb in a bag whose owner was not on board. This was the reason for instituting the current bag-matching rule.
– Henning Makholm
4 hours ago
@HenningMakholm - Since the question asks if it's happened before that a bomb was smuggled that way, and your comment answers that, may I suggest submitting an answer, even if it is short? A quote or two from the link can also be added if they will confirm the answer. Thanks.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
@ymb1: So done. It is rather thin with respect to the title question about air cargo on passenger flights, though.
– Henning Makholm
47 mins ago
When the situation is more nervous than usual, a variant of having the baggage handlers go into the holds and manually finding the bags to offload, is to unload all baggage onto the ramp and then have the passengers deplane and identify their baggage individually. Really time consuming. The one time it was done on a flight I was operating, it delayed us by around two hours as I remember.
– Terry
17 mins ago
In the 1990s at the carrier I flew for, air cargo on pax flights from JFK to Tel Aviv was accepted only from known and trusted sources, and when the security alert level was high, cargo was sometimes put in altitude chambers to check for barometric devices.
– Terry
5 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Several times, my flight has been delayed when passengers don't make it to the gate in time and then (after a long wait) the baggage-handlers have to go into the holds and manually find the bags to offload.
First, is this a legal requirement? Do all carriers follow this same practice?
If so, then why is this a security risk any greater than the same flight anyways carrying air-cargo in its hold? Flights do that, correct? Not all cargo space is filled with checked-in baggage?
Does anyone know the rationale behind this calculation? If the hold anyways contains unaccompanied cargo then why treat unaccompanied passenger baggage as a high risk?
Also, historically, is there a record of such offloaded bags (for missing passengers) actually turning out to be containing explosives?
airline-operations security
asked 5 hours ago
curious_cat
4,19412471
Several times, my flight has been delayed when passengers don't make it to the gate in time and then (after a long wait) the baggage-handlers have to go into the holds and manually find the bags to offload.
First, is this a legal requirement? Do all carriers follow this same practice?
If so, then why is this a security risk any greater than the same flight anyways carrying air-cargo in its hold? Flights do that, correct? Not all cargo space is filled with checked-in baggage?
Does anyone know the rationale behind this calculation? If the hold anyways contains unaccompanied cargo then why treat unaccompanied passenger baggage as a high risk?
Also, historically, is there a record of such offloaded bags (for missing passengers) actually turning out to be containing explosives?
airline-operations security
airline-operations security
asked 5 hours ago
curious_cat
4,19412471
asked 5 hours ago
curious_cat
4,19412471
asked 5 hours ago
curious_cat
4,19412471
asked 5 hours ago
curious_cat
4,19412471
asked 5 hours ago
curious_cat
4,19412471
4,19412471
4
Historically, Pan Am 103 was brought down by a bomb in a bag whose owner was not on board. This was the reason for instituting the current bag-matching rule.
– Henning Makholm
4 hours ago
@HenningMakholm - Since the question asks if it's happened before that a bomb was smuggled that way, and your comment answers that, may I suggest submitting an answer, even if it is short? A quote or two from the link can also be added if they will confirm the answer. Thanks.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
@ymb1: So done. It is rather thin with respect to the title question about air cargo on passenger flights, though.
– Henning Makholm
47 mins ago
When the situation is more nervous than usual, a variant of having the baggage handlers go into the holds and manually finding the bags to offload, is to unload all baggage onto the ramp and then have the passengers deplane and identify their baggage individually. Really time consuming. The one time it was done on a flight I was operating, it delayed us by around two hours as I remember.
– Terry
17 mins ago
In the 1990s at the carrier I flew for, air cargo on pax flights from JFK to Tel Aviv was accepted only from known and trusted sources, and when the security alert level was high, cargo was sometimes put in altitude chambers to check for barometric devices.
– Terry
5 mins ago
add a comment |Â
4
Historically, Pan Am 103 was brought down by a bomb in a bag whose owner was not on board. This was the reason for instituting the current bag-matching rule.
– Henning Makholm
4 hours ago
@HenningMakholm - Since the question asks if it's happened before that a bomb was smuggled that way, and your comment answers that, may I suggest submitting an answer, even if it is short? A quote or two from the link can also be added if they will confirm the answer. Thanks.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
@ymb1: So done. It is rather thin with respect to the title question about air cargo on passenger flights, though.
– Henning Makholm
47 mins ago
When the situation is more nervous than usual, a variant of having the baggage handlers go into the holds and manually finding the bags to offload, is to unload all baggage onto the ramp and then have the passengers deplane and identify their baggage individually. Really time consuming. The one time it was done on a flight I was operating, it delayed us by around two hours as I remember.
– Terry
17 mins ago
In the 1990s at the carrier I flew for, air cargo on pax flights from JFK to Tel Aviv was accepted only from known and trusted sources, and when the security alert level was high, cargo was sometimes put in altitude chambers to check for barometric devices.
– Terry
5 mins ago
4
4
Historically, Pan Am 103 was brought down by a bomb in a bag whose owner was not on board. This was the reason for instituting the current bag-matching rule.
– Henning Makholm
4 hours ago
Historically, Pan Am 103 was brought down by a bomb in a bag whose owner was not on board. This was the reason for instituting the current bag-matching rule.
– Henning Makholm
4 hours ago
@HenningMakholm - Since the question asks if it's happened before that a bomb was smuggled that way, and your comment answers that, may I suggest submitting an answer, even if it is short? A quote or two from the link can also be added if they will confirm the answer. Thanks.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
@HenningMakholm - Since the question asks if it's happened before that a bomb was smuggled that way, and your comment answers that, may I suggest submitting an answer, even if it is short? A quote or two from the link can also be added if they will confirm the answer. Thanks.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
1
@ymb1: So done. It is rather thin with respect to the title question about air cargo on passenger flights, though.
– Henning Makholm
47 mins ago
@ymb1: So done. It is rather thin with respect to the title question about air cargo on passenger flights, though.
– Henning Makholm
47 mins ago
When the situation is more nervous than usual, a variant of having the baggage handlers go into the holds and manually finding the bags to offload, is to unload all baggage onto the ramp and then have the passengers deplane and identify their baggage individually. Really time consuming. The one time it was done on a flight I was operating, it delayed us by around two hours as I remember.
– Terry
17 mins ago
When the situation is more nervous than usual, a variant of having the baggage handlers go into the holds and manually finding the bags to offload, is to unload all baggage onto the ramp and then have the passengers deplane and identify their baggage individually. Really time consuming. The one time it was done on a flight I was operating, it delayed us by around two hours as I remember.
– Terry
17 mins ago
In the 1990s at the carrier I flew for, air cargo on pax flights from JFK to Tel Aviv was accepted only from known and trusted sources, and when the security alert level was high, cargo was sometimes put in altitude chambers to check for barometric devices.
– Terry
5 mins ago
In the 1990s at the carrier I flew for, air cargo on pax flights from JFK to Tel Aviv was accepted only from known and trusted sources, and when the security alert level was high, cargo was sometimes put in altitude chambers to check for barometric devices.
– Terry
5 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
Partial answer:
The rule about offloading passenger bags is known as Positive Passenger/Bag Matching. It was introduced after the Pan Am 103 bombing in 1988 where a bomb was placed in a suitcase that was checked through to New York without belonging to any passenger on the plane.
By the practices of the time, all bags tagged with the right flight number would be loaded onto the plane, without pausing to cross-reference them to passenger manifests. The investigation never found out for certain how the suitcase with the bomb had entered the baggage system (an inside job at Luqa airport was suspected but not proved), but the outcome was to require matching of all the bags to actual boarded passengers before departure.
So this is not necessarily a case where explosives were placed in the checked bag of a passenger who should have boarded but didn't -- but it is close enough to see that the risk is not pure fantasy.
The rule applies to all international passenger flights, but not to US domestic flights; the US authorities apparently have better trust in their ability to screen checked bags for explosives before loading them onto a plane.
I would assume that air cargo also undergoes similar screening and that is why it is not subject to PPBM rules -- even outside the US there is better time to screen cargo thoroughly than there is for bags that are only checked an hour or two before departure.
This Travel.SE question and its answers have more information about PPBM.
answered 56 mins ago
Henning Makholm
4,96641638
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
Partial answer:
The rule about offloading passenger bags is known as Positive Passenger/Bag Matching. It was introduced after the Pan Am 103 bombing in 1988 where a bomb was placed in a suitcase that was checked through to New York without belonging to any passenger on the plane.
By the practices of the time, all bags tagged with the right flight number would be loaded onto the plane, without pausing to cross-reference them to passenger manifests. The investigation never found out for certain how the suitcase with the bomb had entered the baggage system (an inside job at Luqa airport was suspected but not proved), but the outcome was to require matching of all the bags to actual boarded passengers before departure.
So this is not necessarily a case where explosives were placed in the checked bag of a passenger who should have boarded but didn't -- but it is close enough to see that the risk is not pure fantasy.
The rule applies to all international passenger flights, but not to US domestic flights; the US authorities apparently have better trust in their ability to screen checked bags for explosives before loading them onto a plane.
I would assume that air cargo also undergoes similar screening and that is why it is not subject to PPBM rules -- even outside the US there is better time to screen cargo thoroughly than there is for bags that are only checked an hour or two before departure.
This Travel.SE question and its answers have more information about PPBM.
answered 56 mins ago
Henning Makholm
4,96641638
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Partial answer:
The rule about offloading passenger bags is known as Positive Passenger/Bag Matching. It was introduced after the Pan Am 103 bombing in 1988 where a bomb was placed in a suitcase that was checked through to New York without belonging to any passenger on the plane.
By the practices of the time, all bags tagged with the right flight number would be loaded onto the plane, without pausing to cross-reference them to passenger manifests. The investigation never found out for certain how the suitcase with the bomb had entered the baggage system (an inside job at Luqa airport was suspected but not proved), but the outcome was to require matching of all the bags to actual boarded passengers before departure.
So this is not necessarily a case where explosives were placed in the checked bag of a passenger who should have boarded but didn't -- but it is close enough to see that the risk is not pure fantasy.
The rule applies to all international passenger flights, but not to US domestic flights; the US authorities apparently have better trust in their ability to screen checked bags for explosives before loading them onto a plane.
I would assume that air cargo also undergoes similar screening and that is why it is not subject to PPBM rules -- even outside the US there is better time to screen cargo thoroughly than there is for bags that are only checked an hour or two before departure.
This Travel.SE question and its answers have more information about PPBM.
answered 56 mins ago
Henning Makholm
4,96641638
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Partial answer:
The rule about offloading passenger bags is known as Positive Passenger/Bag Matching. It was introduced after the Pan Am 103 bombing in 1988 where a bomb was placed in a suitcase that was checked through to New York without belonging to any passenger on the plane.
By the practices of the time, all bags tagged with the right flight number would be loaded onto the plane, without pausing to cross-reference them to passenger manifests. The investigation never found out for certain how the suitcase with the bomb had entered the baggage system (an inside job at Luqa airport was suspected but not proved), but the outcome was to require matching of all the bags to actual boarded passengers before departure.
So this is not necessarily a case where explosives were placed in the checked bag of a passenger who should have boarded but didn't -- but it is close enough to see that the risk is not pure fantasy.
The rule applies to all international passenger flights, but not to US domestic flights; the US authorities apparently have better trust in their ability to screen checked bags for explosives before loading them onto a plane.
I would assume that air cargo also undergoes similar screening and that is why it is not subject to PPBM rules -- even outside the US there is better time to screen cargo thoroughly than there is for bags that are only checked an hour or two before departure.
This Travel.SE question and its answers have more information about PPBM.
answered 56 mins ago
Henning Makholm
4,96641638
Partial answer:
The rule about offloading passenger bags is known as Positive Passenger/Bag Matching. It was introduced after the Pan Am 103 bombing in 1988 where a bomb was placed in a suitcase that was checked through to New York without belonging to any passenger on the plane.
By the practices of the time, all bags tagged with the right flight number would be loaded onto the plane, without pausing to cross-reference them to passenger manifests. The investigation never found out for certain how the suitcase with the bomb had entered the baggage system (an inside job at Luqa airport was suspected but not proved), but the outcome was to require matching of all the bags to actual boarded passengers before departure.
So this is not necessarily a case where explosives were placed in the checked bag of a passenger who should have boarded but didn't -- but it is close enough to see that the risk is not pure fantasy.
The rule applies to all international passenger flights, but not to US domestic flights; the US authorities apparently have better trust in their ability to screen checked bags for explosives before loading them onto a plane.
I would assume that air cargo also undergoes similar screening and that is why it is not subject to PPBM rules -- even outside the US there is better time to screen cargo thoroughly than there is for bags that are only checked an hour or two before departure.
This Travel.SE question and its answers have more information about PPBM.
answered 56 mins ago
Henning Makholm
4,96641638
edited 48 mins ago
answered 56 mins ago
Henning Makholm
4,96641638
answered 56 mins ago
Henning Makholm
4,96641638
answered 56 mins ago
Henning Makholm
4,96641638
4,96641638
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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4
Historically, Pan Am 103 was brought down by a bomb in a bag whose owner was not on board. This was the reason for instituting the current bag-matching rule.
– Henning Makholm
4 hours ago
@HenningMakholm - Since the question asks if it's happened before that a bomb was smuggled that way, and your comment answers that, may I suggest submitting an answer, even if it is short? A quote or two from the link can also be added if they will confirm the answer. Thanks.
– ymb1
1 hour ago
1
@ymb1: So done. It is rather thin with respect to the title question about air cargo on passenger flights, though.
– Henning Makholm
47 mins ago
When the situation is more nervous than usual, a variant of having the baggage handlers go into the holds and manually finding the bags to offload, is to unload all baggage onto the ramp and then have the passengers deplane and identify their baggage individually. Really time consuming. The one time it was done on a flight I was operating, it delayed us by around two hours as I remember.
– Terry
17 mins ago
In the 1990s at the carrier I flew for, air cargo on pax flights from JFK to Tel Aviv was accepted only from known and trusted sources, and when the security alert level was high, cargo was sometimes put in altitude chambers to check for barometric devices.
– Terry
5 mins ago