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How would a 16 yo girl from Cleopatra's era curse?
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For one of my novels, I need to learn how ~16 yo Egyptian kids spoke to each other on a daily basis. I did some reseach online but I have trouble to understand what languages peoples were speaking in Alexandria in Cleopatra's era, and more importantly: how they cursed.
Can someone give me some clues about how to get more information about this?
Please note that English is not my first language and maybe I'm not using "Curse" in the good way. What I'm looking for is words like "F**k off" or "Sh*t". Like when a kids talk to another and tell him is an idiot in a fun / friendly way.
Why do I need this ? / How will it be used
At some point in my novel, people from differents era are regrouped in one point in history and become friends. Two of those people, a 16 year old girl from Ancient Egypt and a 40 year old Viking male develop some father-daughter relationship. And I really would like to add sometimes in their dialog a few words from their original language.
For exemple, the girl at some point is pissed off, and call the Viking Dad a "Ergi". She tell him that because she know it will be really offensive to him.
What I am looking for is really something like this, or another "teasing" insults or bad words for them to call themselves.
What did I found so far ?
For the Viking language, it's a little easier. Insulting and cursing is a lot more documented. And some great author wrote some interesting articles
But for Ancient Egypt "trash talk", I really don't find anything interesting. But i'm sure it's because I'm bad at searching. Some books seems to have some stuffs, and somes websites too, but they feel a lot less "academic", if this make any sense.
language ancient-egypt
edited 35 mins ago
LangLangC
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asked 3 hours ago
iizno
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iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
For one of my novels, I need to learn how ~16 yo Egyptian kids spoke to each other on a daily basis. I did some reseach online but I have trouble to understand what languages peoples were speaking in Alexandria in Cleopatra's era, and more importantly: how they cursed.
Can someone give me some clues about how to get more information about this?
Please note that English is not my first language and maybe I'm not using "Curse" in the good way. What I'm looking for is words like "F**k off" or "Sh*t". Like when a kids talk to another and tell him is an idiot in a fun / friendly way.
Why do I need this ? / How will it be used
At some point in my novel, people from differents era are regrouped in one point in history and become friends. Two of those people, a 16 year old girl from Ancient Egypt and a 40 year old Viking male develop some father-daughter relationship. And I really would like to add sometimes in their dialog a few words from their original language.
For exemple, the girl at some point is pissed off, and call the Viking Dad a "Ergi". She tell him that because she know it will be really offensive to him.
What I am looking for is really something like this, or another "teasing" insults or bad words for them to call themselves.
What did I found so far ?
For the Viking language, it's a little easier. Insulting and cursing is a lot more documented. And some great author wrote some interesting articles
But for Ancient Egypt "trash talk", I really don't find anything interesting. But i'm sure it's because I'm bad at searching. Some books seems to have some stuffs, and somes websites too, but they feel a lot less "academic", if this make any sense.
language ancient-egypt
edited 35 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
asked 3 hours ago
iizno
1135
New contributor
iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
3
Welcome to History.SE. Please document with an edit what exactly your research revealed to you. It will also help if you flesh out your character here a bit more (ethnic background, economic background) and the language your novel will be in. That is, if you write in French, wh not let your girl curse in French?
– LangLangC
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
For one of my novels, I need to learn how ~16 yo Egyptian kids spoke to each other on a daily basis. I did some reseach online but I have trouble to understand what languages peoples were speaking in Alexandria in Cleopatra's era, and more importantly: how they cursed.
Can someone give me some clues about how to get more information about this?
Please note that English is not my first language and maybe I'm not using "Curse" in the good way. What I'm looking for is words like "F**k off" or "Sh*t". Like when a kids talk to another and tell him is an idiot in a fun / friendly way.
Why do I need this ? / How will it be used
At some point in my novel, people from differents era are regrouped in one point in history and become friends. Two of those people, a 16 year old girl from Ancient Egypt and a 40 year old Viking male develop some father-daughter relationship. And I really would like to add sometimes in their dialog a few words from their original language.
For exemple, the girl at some point is pissed off, and call the Viking Dad a "Ergi". She tell him that because she know it will be really offensive to him.
What I am looking for is really something like this, or another "teasing" insults or bad words for them to call themselves.
What did I found so far ?
For the Viking language, it's a little easier. Insulting and cursing is a lot more documented. And some great author wrote some interesting articles
But for Ancient Egypt "trash talk", I really don't find anything interesting. But i'm sure it's because I'm bad at searching. Some books seems to have some stuffs, and somes websites too, but they feel a lot less "academic", if this make any sense.
language ancient-egypt
edited 35 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
asked 3 hours ago
iizno
1135
New contributor
iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
For one of my novels, I need to learn how ~16 yo Egyptian kids spoke to each other on a daily basis. I did some reseach online but I have trouble to understand what languages peoples were speaking in Alexandria in Cleopatra's era, and more importantly: how they cursed.
Can someone give me some clues about how to get more information about this?
Please note that English is not my first language and maybe I'm not using "Curse" in the good way. What I'm looking for is words like "F**k off" or "Sh*t". Like when a kids talk to another and tell him is an idiot in a fun / friendly way.
Why do I need this ? / How will it be used
At some point in my novel, people from differents era are regrouped in one point in history and become friends. Two of those people, a 16 year old girl from Ancient Egypt and a 40 year old Viking male develop some father-daughter relationship. And I really would like to add sometimes in their dialog a few words from their original language.
For exemple, the girl at some point is pissed off, and call the Viking Dad a "Ergi". She tell him that because she know it will be really offensive to him.
What I am looking for is really something like this, or another "teasing" insults or bad words for them to call themselves.
What did I found so far ?
For the Viking language, it's a little easier. Insulting and cursing is a lot more documented. And some great author wrote some interesting articles
But for Ancient Egypt "trash talk", I really don't find anything interesting. But i'm sure it's because I'm bad at searching. Some books seems to have some stuffs, and somes websites too, but they feel a lot less "academic", if this make any sense.
language ancient-egypt
language ancient-egypt
edited 35 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
asked 3 hours ago
iizno
1135
New contributor
iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 35 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
asked 3 hours ago
iizno
1135
New contributor
iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 35 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
edited 35 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
edited 35 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
13.7k24583
asked 3 hours ago
iizno
1135
New contributor
iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 3 hours ago
iizno
1135
asked 3 hours ago
iizno
1135
1135
New contributor
iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
iizno is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
3
Welcome to History.SE. Please document with an edit what exactly your research revealed to you. It will also help if you flesh out your character here a bit more (ethnic background, economic background) and the language your novel will be in. That is, if you write in French, wh not let your girl curse in French?
– LangLangC
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
3
Welcome to History.SE. Please document with an edit what exactly your research revealed to you. It will also help if you flesh out your character here a bit more (ethnic background, economic background) and the language your novel will be in. That is, if you write in French, wh not let your girl curse in French?
– LangLangC
2 hours ago
3
3
Welcome to History.SE. Please document with an edit what exactly your research revealed to you. It will also help if you flesh out your character here a bit more (ethnic background, economic background) and the language your novel will be in. That is, if you write in French, wh not let your girl curse in French?
– LangLangC
2 hours ago
Welcome to History.SE. Please document with an edit what exactly your research revealed to you. It will also help if you flesh out your character here a bit more (ethnic background, economic background) and the language your novel will be in. That is, if you write in French, wh not let your girl curse in French?
– LangLangC
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
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oldest
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up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Alexandria is sometimes called the New York of the ancient world. That means you might very well use any language you like, as the people were incredibly diverse.
But the History of Alexandria shows a few 'preferred choices':
Ethnic divisions
The early Ptolemies were careful to maintain the distinction of its population's three largest ethnicities: Greek, Jewish, and Egyptian. (At first, Egyptians were probably the plurality of residents, while the Jewish community remained small. Slavery, a normal institution in Greece, was likely present but details about its extent and about the identity of slaves are unknown.) Alexandrian Greeks placed an emphasis on Hellenistic culture, in part to exclude and subjugate non-Greeks.
The law in Alexandria was based on Greek—especially Attic—law. There were two institutions in Alexandria devoted to the preservation and study of Greek culture, which helped to exclude non-Greeks. In literature, non-Greek texts entered the library only once they had been translated into Greek. Notably, there were few references to Egypt or native Egyptians in Alexandrian poetry; one of the few references to native Egyptians presents them as "muggers." There were ostentatious religious processions in the streets that displayed the wealth and power of the Ptolemies, but also celebrated and affirmed Greekness. These processions were used to shout Greek superiority over any non-Greeks that were watching, thereby widening the divide between cultures.
From this division arose much of the later turbulence, which began to manifest itself under the rule of Ptolemy Philopater (221–204 BC). The reign of Ptolemy VIII Physcon from 144–116 BC was marked by purges and civil warfare (including the expulsion of intellectuals such as Apollodorus of Athens), as well as intrigues associated with the king's wives and sons.
Alexandria was also home to the largest Jewish community in the ancient world. The Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (the Torah and other writings), was produced there. Jews occupied two of the city's five quarters and worshipped at synagogues.
That means the most likely languages are by far not only Egyptian but also the wonderful Greek language, especially for the upper strata of society. This would also include the Jews, whoe were largely hellenised. But then from liturgical sources they would surely have also some curse and swear words derived from biblical Hebrew.
As for the Greek curses and swears,
you find that Aristophanes offers us plenty of Greek insults. Lots of them deal with feces, especially eating or shitting on others. Plenty deal with sex. Because Greeks compounded we have a lot of these that very directly translate into English, such as "koprophagos", "shit-eater" and "metrokoites", "mother-fucker", "kunops", "bitch (literally female dog)-face" or just "kun" or "kuna", "bitch" applied equally to men and women. The most common curse to a god is "ma Dia", "by Zeus", but you can find most gods' names in the accusative after "ma" for this like "ma Heran" or "ma Apollona".
And an even more colourful list:
ΑÎÂΑΣΕΙΣΙΦΑΛΛΟΣ a promiscuous woman; one that dangles a penis [ αναÃειÃίÆαλλο = αναÃείÉ + ÆαλλÃŒÂ]
ΒΔΕΩ fart [βδÎÂÉ = βÃÂÉμάÉ]
ΓΛΩΤΤΟΔΕΨΕΩ using the tongue
ΓΥÎÂΑΙΚΟΠΙΠΗΣ peeping Tom[ γÃ…ναικοÀίÀη = γÃ…ναίκα + οÀιÀÄεÃÂÉ]
ΔΡΟΜΑΣ prostitute that walks the street [δÃÂομά = δÃÂÌμοÂ]
ΕΣΧΑΡΑ a woman's genitalia [εÃÇάÃÂα = αÀÃÂŒ Äο ÃÂήμα ίÃÇÉ (εμÀοδίζÉ)]
ΕΥΠΥΓΟΣ a woman with a nice behind [εÃÂÀÅγο = εÃÂ… + ÀÅγή ]
ΚΑΣΣΩΡΙΣ whore [καÃÃÉÃÂί = αÀÃÂŒ Äο κάÃι (αδελÆÃŒÂ, εÄαίÃÂοÂ)]
ΜΥΖΟΥΡΙΣ a woman that sucks a penis[μÃÂζοÃÂ…ÃÂι = μÃ…ζάÉ + οÃÂ…ÃÂά (ÀÎÂοÂ)]
ΠΗΘΙΚΑΛΩΠΗΞ a cunning man (slimy cunning) [ÀιθηκαλÃŽÀηξ = Àίθηκο = αλÃŽÀηξ]
ΡΩΠΟΠΕΡΠΕΡΗΘΡΑΣ a man who keeps on spewing nonsense
ΗΔΟÎÂΟΘΗΚΗη: a woman's genitalia
ΚΥÎÂΤΕΡΟΣ: someone without shame, a good for nothing person[> κÃÂÉν]
ΛΕΧΡΙΟΣ slimy [ > λÎÂÇÃÂιο (λεÇÃÂίÄηÂ)]
ΛΥΔΙΑ whore (Roman times, apparently because many high end prostitutes where from that region).
ΛΟΧΜΗ: bushy woman's genitalia [> λÃŒÇμη (θάμνοÂ)]
ΣΠΟΔΗΡΙΛΑΥΡΑ: **** eater[ÃÀοδή (καÄαβÃÂοÇθίζÉ) + λαÃÂÃÂα (αÀÃŒÀαÄοÂ)]
ΧΑΛΚΙΔΙΤΙΣ: a very cheap whore, one that will do it for a copper
A wonderful book on the subject would be Melissa Mohr: "Holy Sh*t. A Brief History of Swearing", Oxford University Press: Oxford, New York, 2013. It only starts in Roman times, but then Cleopatra is right at the line when Alexandria also became Roman.
If you insist on the girl being Egyptian and using that ancient language to curse, you still have plenty to choose from:
The first two recorded instances of what may be regarded as swearing come from Ancient Egypt. One of these is found on a stela, an upright stone slab with a commemorative inscription, dating back to the era of Ramses III, pharaoh between 1198 and 1166 BC.
The stela may be found in the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford. The inscription was written for a small tribe – probably named the Shamin – living in or close to the Dakhla oasis in present-day Egypt (cf. Janssen 1968: 165–72).
The inscription informs us that a certain local official named Harentbia donates a daily offering of five loaves in favour of his dead father. The offering is said to be ‘everlasting’ and promises that the official in charge of its execution will enjoy the protection of the god Amon-Re. It also describes the punishment that will be meted out to those who fail to follow the instructions: the person who fails in this respect ‘shall fall to the sword of Amon-Re’ and in addition ‘a donkey shall copulate with him, he shall copulate with a donkey, his wife shall copulate with his children’.
What makes the inscription interesting to students of swearing is the way the threat of retribution is worded. Sexual threats of the same nature involving a donkey turn up in numerous other legal documents and inscriptions from the same era. Donkey-based threats of this kind had apparently become formulaic and were used as a standardized ingredient in legal texts of the era (cf. Tyldesley 2001: 163). Amazingly, it – or something like it – is apparently still used as a standard curse in today’s Kurdish, that is more than 3000 years later than its first known appearance (cf. Demirbag-Sten 2005: 219).
Magnus Ljung: "Swearing: A Cross-Cultural Linguistic Study", PalgraveMacmillan: Basingstoke, 2011, p 45.
answered 39 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
Thank you for this very interesting answer (and for the spelling corrections).This will help me a lot !
– iizno
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Alexandria is sometimes called the New York of the ancient world. That means you might very well use any language you like, as the people were incredibly diverse.
But the History of Alexandria shows a few 'preferred choices':
Ethnic divisions
The early Ptolemies were careful to maintain the distinction of its population's three largest ethnicities: Greek, Jewish, and Egyptian. (At first, Egyptians were probably the plurality of residents, while the Jewish community remained small. Slavery, a normal institution in Greece, was likely present but details about its extent and about the identity of slaves are unknown.) Alexandrian Greeks placed an emphasis on Hellenistic culture, in part to exclude and subjugate non-Greeks.
The law in Alexandria was based on Greek—especially Attic—law. There were two institutions in Alexandria devoted to the preservation and study of Greek culture, which helped to exclude non-Greeks. In literature, non-Greek texts entered the library only once they had been translated into Greek. Notably, there were few references to Egypt or native Egyptians in Alexandrian poetry; one of the few references to native Egyptians presents them as "muggers." There were ostentatious religious processions in the streets that displayed the wealth and power of the Ptolemies, but also celebrated and affirmed Greekness. These processions were used to shout Greek superiority over any non-Greeks that were watching, thereby widening the divide between cultures.
From this division arose much of the later turbulence, which began to manifest itself under the rule of Ptolemy Philopater (221–204 BC). The reign of Ptolemy VIII Physcon from 144–116 BC was marked by purges and civil warfare (including the expulsion of intellectuals such as Apollodorus of Athens), as well as intrigues associated with the king's wives and sons.
Alexandria was also home to the largest Jewish community in the ancient world. The Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (the Torah and other writings), was produced there. Jews occupied two of the city's five quarters and worshipped at synagogues.
That means the most likely languages are by far not only Egyptian but also the wonderful Greek language, especially for the upper strata of society. This would also include the Jews, whoe were largely hellenised. But then from liturgical sources they would surely have also some curse and swear words derived from biblical Hebrew.
As for the Greek curses and swears,
you find that Aristophanes offers us plenty of Greek insults. Lots of them deal with feces, especially eating or shitting on others. Plenty deal with sex. Because Greeks compounded we have a lot of these that very directly translate into English, such as "koprophagos", "shit-eater" and "metrokoites", "mother-fucker", "kunops", "bitch (literally female dog)-face" or just "kun" or "kuna", "bitch" applied equally to men and women. The most common curse to a god is "ma Dia", "by Zeus", but you can find most gods' names in the accusative after "ma" for this like "ma Heran" or "ma Apollona".
And an even more colourful list:
ΑÎÂΑΣΕΙΣΙΦΑΛΛΟΣ a promiscuous woman; one that dangles a penis [ αναÃειÃίÆαλλο = αναÃείÉ + ÆαλλÃŒÂ]
ΒΔΕΩ fart [βδÎÂÉ = βÃÂÉμάÉ]
ΓΛΩΤΤΟΔΕΨΕΩ using the tongue
ΓΥÎÂΑΙΚΟΠΙΠΗΣ peeping Tom[ γÃ…ναικοÀίÀη = γÃ…ναίκα + οÀιÀÄεÃÂÉ]
ΔΡΟΜΑΣ prostitute that walks the street [δÃÂομά = δÃÂÌμοÂ]
ΕΣΧΑΡΑ a woman's genitalia [εÃÇάÃÂα = αÀÃÂŒ Äο ÃÂήμα ίÃÇÉ (εμÀοδίζÉ)]
ΕΥΠΥΓΟΣ a woman with a nice behind [εÃÂÀÅγο = εÃÂ… + ÀÅγή ]
ΚΑΣΣΩΡΙΣ whore [καÃÃÉÃÂί = αÀÃÂŒ Äο κάÃι (αδελÆÃŒÂ, εÄαίÃÂοÂ)]
ΜΥΖΟΥΡΙΣ a woman that sucks a penis[μÃÂζοÃÂ…ÃÂι = μÃ…ζάÉ + οÃÂ…ÃÂά (ÀÎÂοÂ)]
ΠΗΘΙΚΑΛΩΠΗΞ a cunning man (slimy cunning) [ÀιθηκαλÃŽÀηξ = Àίθηκο = αλÃŽÀηξ]
ΡΩΠΟΠΕΡΠΕΡΗΘΡΑΣ a man who keeps on spewing nonsense
ΗΔΟÎÂΟΘΗΚΗη: a woman's genitalia
ΚΥÎÂΤΕΡΟΣ: someone without shame, a good for nothing person[> κÃÂÉν]
ΛΕΧΡΙΟΣ slimy [ > λÎÂÇÃÂιο (λεÇÃÂίÄηÂ)]
ΛΥΔΙΑ whore (Roman times, apparently because many high end prostitutes where from that region).
ΛΟΧΜΗ: bushy woman's genitalia [> λÃŒÇμη (θάμνοÂ)]
ΣΠΟΔΗΡΙΛΑΥΡΑ: **** eater[ÃÀοδή (καÄαβÃÂοÇθίζÉ) + λαÃÂÃÂα (αÀÃŒÀαÄοÂ)]
ΧΑΛΚΙΔΙΤΙΣ: a very cheap whore, one that will do it for a copper
A wonderful book on the subject would be Melissa Mohr: "Holy Sh*t. A Brief History of Swearing", Oxford University Press: Oxford, New York, 2013. It only starts in Roman times, but then Cleopatra is right at the line when Alexandria also became Roman.
If you insist on the girl being Egyptian and using that ancient language to curse, you still have plenty to choose from:
The first two recorded instances of what may be regarded as swearing come from Ancient Egypt. One of these is found on a stela, an upright stone slab with a commemorative inscription, dating back to the era of Ramses III, pharaoh between 1198 and 1166 BC.
The stela may be found in the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford. The inscription was written for a small tribe – probably named the Shamin – living in or close to the Dakhla oasis in present-day Egypt (cf. Janssen 1968: 165–72).
The inscription informs us that a certain local official named Harentbia donates a daily offering of five loaves in favour of his dead father. The offering is said to be ‘everlasting’ and promises that the official in charge of its execution will enjoy the protection of the god Amon-Re. It also describes the punishment that will be meted out to those who fail to follow the instructions: the person who fails in this respect ‘shall fall to the sword of Amon-Re’ and in addition ‘a donkey shall copulate with him, he shall copulate with a donkey, his wife shall copulate with his children’.
What makes the inscription interesting to students of swearing is the way the threat of retribution is worded. Sexual threats of the same nature involving a donkey turn up in numerous other legal documents and inscriptions from the same era. Donkey-based threats of this kind had apparently become formulaic and were used as a standardized ingredient in legal texts of the era (cf. Tyldesley 2001: 163). Amazingly, it – or something like it – is apparently still used as a standard curse in today’s Kurdish, that is more than 3000 years later than its first known appearance (cf. Demirbag-Sten 2005: 219).
Magnus Ljung: "Swearing: A Cross-Cultural Linguistic Study", PalgraveMacmillan: Basingstoke, 2011, p 45.
answered 39 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
Thank you for this very interesting answer (and for the spelling corrections).This will help me a lot !
– iizno
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Alexandria is sometimes called the New York of the ancient world. That means you might very well use any language you like, as the people were incredibly diverse.
But the History of Alexandria shows a few 'preferred choices':
Ethnic divisions
The early Ptolemies were careful to maintain the distinction of its population's three largest ethnicities: Greek, Jewish, and Egyptian. (At first, Egyptians were probably the plurality of residents, while the Jewish community remained small. Slavery, a normal institution in Greece, was likely present but details about its extent and about the identity of slaves are unknown.) Alexandrian Greeks placed an emphasis on Hellenistic culture, in part to exclude and subjugate non-Greeks.
The law in Alexandria was based on Greek—especially Attic—law. There were two institutions in Alexandria devoted to the preservation and study of Greek culture, which helped to exclude non-Greeks. In literature, non-Greek texts entered the library only once they had been translated into Greek. Notably, there were few references to Egypt or native Egyptians in Alexandrian poetry; one of the few references to native Egyptians presents them as "muggers." There were ostentatious religious processions in the streets that displayed the wealth and power of the Ptolemies, but also celebrated and affirmed Greekness. These processions were used to shout Greek superiority over any non-Greeks that were watching, thereby widening the divide between cultures.
From this division arose much of the later turbulence, which began to manifest itself under the rule of Ptolemy Philopater (221–204 BC). The reign of Ptolemy VIII Physcon from 144–116 BC was marked by purges and civil warfare (including the expulsion of intellectuals such as Apollodorus of Athens), as well as intrigues associated with the king's wives and sons.
Alexandria was also home to the largest Jewish community in the ancient world. The Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (the Torah and other writings), was produced there. Jews occupied two of the city's five quarters and worshipped at synagogues.
That means the most likely languages are by far not only Egyptian but also the wonderful Greek language, especially for the upper strata of society. This would also include the Jews, whoe were largely hellenised. But then from liturgical sources they would surely have also some curse and swear words derived from biblical Hebrew.
As for the Greek curses and swears,
you find that Aristophanes offers us plenty of Greek insults. Lots of them deal with feces, especially eating or shitting on others. Plenty deal with sex. Because Greeks compounded we have a lot of these that very directly translate into English, such as "koprophagos", "shit-eater" and "metrokoites", "mother-fucker", "kunops", "bitch (literally female dog)-face" or just "kun" or "kuna", "bitch" applied equally to men and women. The most common curse to a god is "ma Dia", "by Zeus", but you can find most gods' names in the accusative after "ma" for this like "ma Heran" or "ma Apollona".
And an even more colourful list:
ΑÎÂΑΣΕΙΣΙΦΑΛΛΟΣ a promiscuous woman; one that dangles a penis [ αναÃειÃίÆαλλο = αναÃείÉ + ÆαλλÃŒÂ]
ΒΔΕΩ fart [βδÎÂÉ = βÃÂÉμάÉ]
ΓΛΩΤΤΟΔΕΨΕΩ using the tongue
ΓΥÎÂΑΙΚΟΠΙΠΗΣ peeping Tom[ γÃ…ναικοÀίÀη = γÃ…ναίκα + οÀιÀÄεÃÂÉ]
ΔΡΟΜΑΣ prostitute that walks the street [δÃÂομά = δÃÂÌμοÂ]
ΕΣΧΑΡΑ a woman's genitalia [εÃÇάÃÂα = αÀÃÂŒ Äο ÃÂήμα ίÃÇÉ (εμÀοδίζÉ)]
ΕΥΠΥΓΟΣ a woman with a nice behind [εÃÂÀÅγο = εÃÂ… + ÀÅγή ]
ΚΑΣΣΩΡΙΣ whore [καÃÃÉÃÂί = αÀÃÂŒ Äο κάÃι (αδελÆÃŒÂ, εÄαίÃÂοÂ)]
ΜΥΖΟΥΡΙΣ a woman that sucks a penis[μÃÂζοÃÂ…ÃÂι = μÃ…ζάÉ + οÃÂ…ÃÂά (ÀÎÂοÂ)]
ΠΗΘΙΚΑΛΩΠΗΞ a cunning man (slimy cunning) [ÀιθηκαλÃŽÀηξ = Àίθηκο = αλÃŽÀηξ]
ΡΩΠΟΠΕΡΠΕΡΗΘΡΑΣ a man who keeps on spewing nonsense
ΗΔΟÎÂΟΘΗΚΗη: a woman's genitalia
ΚΥÎÂΤΕΡΟΣ: someone without shame, a good for nothing person[> κÃÂÉν]
ΛΕΧΡΙΟΣ slimy [ > λÎÂÇÃÂιο (λεÇÃÂίÄηÂ)]
ΛΥΔΙΑ whore (Roman times, apparently because many high end prostitutes where from that region).
ΛΟΧΜΗ: bushy woman's genitalia [> λÃŒÇμη (θάμνοÂ)]
ΣΠΟΔΗΡΙΛΑΥΡΑ: **** eater[ÃÀοδή (καÄαβÃÂοÇθίζÉ) + λαÃÂÃÂα (αÀÃŒÀαÄοÂ)]
ΧΑΛΚΙΔΙΤΙΣ: a very cheap whore, one that will do it for a copper
A wonderful book on the subject would be Melissa Mohr: "Holy Sh*t. A Brief History of Swearing", Oxford University Press: Oxford, New York, 2013. It only starts in Roman times, but then Cleopatra is right at the line when Alexandria also became Roman.
If you insist on the girl being Egyptian and using that ancient language to curse, you still have plenty to choose from:
The first two recorded instances of what may be regarded as swearing come from Ancient Egypt. One of these is found on a stela, an upright stone slab with a commemorative inscription, dating back to the era of Ramses III, pharaoh between 1198 and 1166 BC.
The stela may be found in the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford. The inscription was written for a small tribe – probably named the Shamin – living in or close to the Dakhla oasis in present-day Egypt (cf. Janssen 1968: 165–72).
The inscription informs us that a certain local official named Harentbia donates a daily offering of five loaves in favour of his dead father. The offering is said to be ‘everlasting’ and promises that the official in charge of its execution will enjoy the protection of the god Amon-Re. It also describes the punishment that will be meted out to those who fail to follow the instructions: the person who fails in this respect ‘shall fall to the sword of Amon-Re’ and in addition ‘a donkey shall copulate with him, he shall copulate with a donkey, his wife shall copulate with his children’.
What makes the inscription interesting to students of swearing is the way the threat of retribution is worded. Sexual threats of the same nature involving a donkey turn up in numerous other legal documents and inscriptions from the same era. Donkey-based threats of this kind had apparently become formulaic and were used as a standardized ingredient in legal texts of the era (cf. Tyldesley 2001: 163). Amazingly, it – or something like it – is apparently still used as a standard curse in today’s Kurdish, that is more than 3000 years later than its first known appearance (cf. Demirbag-Sten 2005: 219).
Magnus Ljung: "Swearing: A Cross-Cultural Linguistic Study", PalgraveMacmillan: Basingstoke, 2011, p 45.
answered 39 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
Thank you for this very interesting answer (and for the spelling corrections).This will help me a lot !
– iizno
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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Alexandria is sometimes called the New York of the ancient world. That means you might very well use any language you like, as the people were incredibly diverse.
But the History of Alexandria shows a few 'preferred choices':
Ethnic divisions
The early Ptolemies were careful to maintain the distinction of its population's three largest ethnicities: Greek, Jewish, and Egyptian. (At first, Egyptians were probably the plurality of residents, while the Jewish community remained small. Slavery, a normal institution in Greece, was likely present but details about its extent and about the identity of slaves are unknown.) Alexandrian Greeks placed an emphasis on Hellenistic culture, in part to exclude and subjugate non-Greeks.
The law in Alexandria was based on Greek—especially Attic—law. There were two institutions in Alexandria devoted to the preservation and study of Greek culture, which helped to exclude non-Greeks. In literature, non-Greek texts entered the library only once they had been translated into Greek. Notably, there were few references to Egypt or native Egyptians in Alexandrian poetry; one of the few references to native Egyptians presents them as "muggers." There were ostentatious religious processions in the streets that displayed the wealth and power of the Ptolemies, but also celebrated and affirmed Greekness. These processions were used to shout Greek superiority over any non-Greeks that were watching, thereby widening the divide between cultures.
From this division arose much of the later turbulence, which began to manifest itself under the rule of Ptolemy Philopater (221–204 BC). The reign of Ptolemy VIII Physcon from 144–116 BC was marked by purges and civil warfare (including the expulsion of intellectuals such as Apollodorus of Athens), as well as intrigues associated with the king's wives and sons.
Alexandria was also home to the largest Jewish community in the ancient world. The Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (the Torah and other writings), was produced there. Jews occupied two of the city's five quarters and worshipped at synagogues.
That means the most likely languages are by far not only Egyptian but also the wonderful Greek language, especially for the upper strata of society. This would also include the Jews, whoe were largely hellenised. But then from liturgical sources they would surely have also some curse and swear words derived from biblical Hebrew.
As for the Greek curses and swears,
you find that Aristophanes offers us plenty of Greek insults. Lots of them deal with feces, especially eating or shitting on others. Plenty deal with sex. Because Greeks compounded we have a lot of these that very directly translate into English, such as "koprophagos", "shit-eater" and "metrokoites", "mother-fucker", "kunops", "bitch (literally female dog)-face" or just "kun" or "kuna", "bitch" applied equally to men and women. The most common curse to a god is "ma Dia", "by Zeus", but you can find most gods' names in the accusative after "ma" for this like "ma Heran" or "ma Apollona".
And an even more colourful list:
ΑÎÂΑΣΕΙΣΙΦΑΛΛΟΣ a promiscuous woman; one that dangles a penis [ αναÃειÃίÆαλλο = αναÃείÉ + ÆαλλÃŒÂ]
ΒΔΕΩ fart [βδÎÂÉ = βÃÂÉμάÉ]
ΓΛΩΤΤΟΔΕΨΕΩ using the tongue
ΓΥÎÂΑΙΚΟΠΙΠΗΣ peeping Tom[ γÃ…ναικοÀίÀη = γÃ…ναίκα + οÀιÀÄεÃÂÉ]
ΔΡΟΜΑΣ prostitute that walks the street [δÃÂομά = δÃÂÌμοÂ]
ΕΣΧΑΡΑ a woman's genitalia [εÃÇάÃÂα = αÀÃÂŒ Äο ÃÂήμα ίÃÇÉ (εμÀοδίζÉ)]
ΕΥΠΥΓΟΣ a woman with a nice behind [εÃÂÀÅγο = εÃÂ… + ÀÅγή ]
ΚΑΣΣΩΡΙΣ whore [καÃÃÉÃÂί = αÀÃÂŒ Äο κάÃι (αδελÆÃŒÂ, εÄαίÃÂοÂ)]
ΜΥΖΟΥΡΙΣ a woman that sucks a penis[μÃÂζοÃÂ…ÃÂι = μÃ…ζάÉ + οÃÂ…ÃÂά (ÀÎÂοÂ)]
ΠΗΘΙΚΑΛΩΠΗΞ a cunning man (slimy cunning) [ÀιθηκαλÃŽÀηξ = Àίθηκο = αλÃŽÀηξ]
ΡΩΠΟΠΕΡΠΕΡΗΘΡΑΣ a man who keeps on spewing nonsense
ΗΔΟÎÂΟΘΗΚΗη: a woman's genitalia
ΚΥÎÂΤΕΡΟΣ: someone without shame, a good for nothing person[> κÃÂÉν]
ΛΕΧΡΙΟΣ slimy [ > λÎÂÇÃÂιο (λεÇÃÂίÄηÂ)]
ΛΥΔΙΑ whore (Roman times, apparently because many high end prostitutes where from that region).
ΛΟΧΜΗ: bushy woman's genitalia [> λÃŒÇμη (θάμνοÂ)]
ΣΠΟΔΗΡΙΛΑΥΡΑ: **** eater[ÃÀοδή (καÄαβÃÂοÇθίζÉ) + λαÃÂÃÂα (αÀÃŒÀαÄοÂ)]
ΧΑΛΚΙΔΙΤΙΣ: a very cheap whore, one that will do it for a copper
A wonderful book on the subject would be Melissa Mohr: "Holy Sh*t. A Brief History of Swearing", Oxford University Press: Oxford, New York, 2013. It only starts in Roman times, but then Cleopatra is right at the line when Alexandria also became Roman.
If you insist on the girl being Egyptian and using that ancient language to curse, you still have plenty to choose from:
The first two recorded instances of what may be regarded as swearing come from Ancient Egypt. One of these is found on a stela, an upright stone slab with a commemorative inscription, dating back to the era of Ramses III, pharaoh between 1198 and 1166 BC.
The stela may be found in the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford. The inscription was written for a small tribe – probably named the Shamin – living in or close to the Dakhla oasis in present-day Egypt (cf. Janssen 1968: 165–72).
The inscription informs us that a certain local official named Harentbia donates a daily offering of five loaves in favour of his dead father. The offering is said to be ‘everlasting’ and promises that the official in charge of its execution will enjoy the protection of the god Amon-Re. It also describes the punishment that will be meted out to those who fail to follow the instructions: the person who fails in this respect ‘shall fall to the sword of Amon-Re’ and in addition ‘a donkey shall copulate with him, he shall copulate with a donkey, his wife shall copulate with his children’.
What makes the inscription interesting to students of swearing is the way the threat of retribution is worded. Sexual threats of the same nature involving a donkey turn up in numerous other legal documents and inscriptions from the same era. Donkey-based threats of this kind had apparently become formulaic and were used as a standardized ingredient in legal texts of the era (cf. Tyldesley 2001: 163). Amazingly, it – or something like it – is apparently still used as a standard curse in today’s Kurdish, that is more than 3000 years later than its first known appearance (cf. Demirbag-Sten 2005: 219).
Magnus Ljung: "Swearing: A Cross-Cultural Linguistic Study", PalgraveMacmillan: Basingstoke, 2011, p 45.
answered 39 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
Alexandria is sometimes called the New York of the ancient world. That means you might very well use any language you like, as the people were incredibly diverse.
But the History of Alexandria shows a few 'preferred choices':
Ethnic divisions
The early Ptolemies were careful to maintain the distinction of its population's three largest ethnicities: Greek, Jewish, and Egyptian. (At first, Egyptians were probably the plurality of residents, while the Jewish community remained small. Slavery, a normal institution in Greece, was likely present but details about its extent and about the identity of slaves are unknown.) Alexandrian Greeks placed an emphasis on Hellenistic culture, in part to exclude and subjugate non-Greeks.
The law in Alexandria was based on Greek—especially Attic—law. There were two institutions in Alexandria devoted to the preservation and study of Greek culture, which helped to exclude non-Greeks. In literature, non-Greek texts entered the library only once they had been translated into Greek. Notably, there were few references to Egypt or native Egyptians in Alexandrian poetry; one of the few references to native Egyptians presents them as "muggers." There were ostentatious religious processions in the streets that displayed the wealth and power of the Ptolemies, but also celebrated and affirmed Greekness. These processions were used to shout Greek superiority over any non-Greeks that were watching, thereby widening the divide between cultures.
From this division arose much of the later turbulence, which began to manifest itself under the rule of Ptolemy Philopater (221–204 BC). The reign of Ptolemy VIII Physcon from 144–116 BC was marked by purges and civil warfare (including the expulsion of intellectuals such as Apollodorus of Athens), as well as intrigues associated with the king's wives and sons.
Alexandria was also home to the largest Jewish community in the ancient world. The Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (the Torah and other writings), was produced there. Jews occupied two of the city's five quarters and worshipped at synagogues.
That means the most likely languages are by far not only Egyptian but also the wonderful Greek language, especially for the upper strata of society. This would also include the Jews, whoe were largely hellenised. But then from liturgical sources they would surely have also some curse and swear words derived from biblical Hebrew.
As for the Greek curses and swears,
you find that Aristophanes offers us plenty of Greek insults. Lots of them deal with feces, especially eating or shitting on others. Plenty deal with sex. Because Greeks compounded we have a lot of these that very directly translate into English, such as "koprophagos", "shit-eater" and "metrokoites", "mother-fucker", "kunops", "bitch (literally female dog)-face" or just "kun" or "kuna", "bitch" applied equally to men and women. The most common curse to a god is "ma Dia", "by Zeus", but you can find most gods' names in the accusative after "ma" for this like "ma Heran" or "ma Apollona".
And an even more colourful list:
ΑÎÂΑΣΕΙΣΙΦΑΛΛΟΣ a promiscuous woman; one that dangles a penis [ αναÃειÃίÆαλλο = αναÃείÉ + ÆαλλÃŒÂ]
ΒΔΕΩ fart [βδÎÂÉ = βÃÂÉμάÉ]
ΓΛΩΤΤΟΔΕΨΕΩ using the tongue
ΓΥÎÂΑΙΚΟΠΙΠΗΣ peeping Tom[ γÃ…ναικοÀίÀη = γÃ…ναίκα + οÀιÀÄεÃÂÉ]
ΔΡΟΜΑΣ prostitute that walks the street [δÃÂομά = δÃÂÌμοÂ]
ΕΣΧΑΡΑ a woman's genitalia [εÃÇάÃÂα = αÀÃÂŒ Äο ÃÂήμα ίÃÇÉ (εμÀοδίζÉ)]
ΕΥΠΥΓΟΣ a woman with a nice behind [εÃÂÀÅγο = εÃÂ… + ÀÅγή ]
ΚΑΣΣΩΡΙΣ whore [καÃÃÉÃÂί = αÀÃÂŒ Äο κάÃι (αδελÆÃŒÂ, εÄαίÃÂοÂ)]
ΜΥΖΟΥΡΙΣ a woman that sucks a penis[μÃÂζοÃÂ…ÃÂι = μÃ…ζάÉ + οÃÂ…ÃÂά (ÀÎÂοÂ)]
ΠΗΘΙΚΑΛΩΠΗΞ a cunning man (slimy cunning) [ÀιθηκαλÃŽÀηξ = Àίθηκο = αλÃŽÀηξ]
ΡΩΠΟΠΕΡΠΕΡΗΘΡΑΣ a man who keeps on spewing nonsense
ΗΔΟÎÂΟΘΗΚΗη: a woman's genitalia
ΚΥÎÂΤΕΡΟΣ: someone without shame, a good for nothing person[> κÃÂÉν]
ΛΕΧΡΙΟΣ slimy [ > λÎÂÇÃÂιο (λεÇÃÂίÄηÂ)]
ΛΥΔΙΑ whore (Roman times, apparently because many high end prostitutes where from that region).
ΛΟΧΜΗ: bushy woman's genitalia [> λÃŒÇμη (θάμνοÂ)]
ΣΠΟΔΗΡΙΛΑΥΡΑ: **** eater[ÃÀοδή (καÄαβÃÂοÇθίζÉ) + λαÃÂÃÂα (αÀÃŒÀαÄοÂ)]
ΧΑΛΚΙΔΙΤΙΣ: a very cheap whore, one that will do it for a copper
A wonderful book on the subject would be Melissa Mohr: "Holy Sh*t. A Brief History of Swearing", Oxford University Press: Oxford, New York, 2013. It only starts in Roman times, but then Cleopatra is right at the line when Alexandria also became Roman.
If you insist on the girl being Egyptian and using that ancient language to curse, you still have plenty to choose from:
The first two recorded instances of what may be regarded as swearing come from Ancient Egypt. One of these is found on a stela, an upright stone slab with a commemorative inscription, dating back to the era of Ramses III, pharaoh between 1198 and 1166 BC.
The stela may be found in the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford. The inscription was written for a small tribe – probably named the Shamin – living in or close to the Dakhla oasis in present-day Egypt (cf. Janssen 1968: 165–72).
The inscription informs us that a certain local official named Harentbia donates a daily offering of five loaves in favour of his dead father. The offering is said to be ‘everlasting’ and promises that the official in charge of its execution will enjoy the protection of the god Amon-Re. It also describes the punishment that will be meted out to those who fail to follow the instructions: the person who fails in this respect ‘shall fall to the sword of Amon-Re’ and in addition ‘a donkey shall copulate with him, he shall copulate with a donkey, his wife shall copulate with his children’.
What makes the inscription interesting to students of swearing is the way the threat of retribution is worded. Sexual threats of the same nature involving a donkey turn up in numerous other legal documents and inscriptions from the same era. Donkey-based threats of this kind had apparently become formulaic and were used as a standardized ingredient in legal texts of the era (cf. Tyldesley 2001: 163). Amazingly, it – or something like it – is apparently still used as a standard curse in today’s Kurdish, that is more than 3000 years later than its first known appearance (cf. Demirbag-Sten 2005: 219).
Magnus Ljung: "Swearing: A Cross-Cultural Linguistic Study", PalgraveMacmillan: Basingstoke, 2011, p 45.
answered 39 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
edited 18 mins ago
answered 39 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
answered 39 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
answered 39 mins ago
LangLangC
13.7k24583
13.7k24583
Thank you for this very interesting answer (and for the spelling corrections).This will help me a lot !
– iizno
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Thank you for this very interesting answer (and for the spelling corrections).This will help me a lot !
– iizno
22 mins ago
Thank you for this very interesting answer (and for the spelling corrections).This will help me a lot !
– iizno
22 mins ago
Thank you for this very interesting answer (and for the spelling corrections).This will help me a lot !
– iizno
22 mins ago
add a comment |Â
iizno is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
iizno is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
iizno is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
iizno is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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3
Welcome to History.SE. Please document with an edit what exactly your research revealed to you. It will also help if you flesh out your character here a bit more (ethnic background, economic background) and the language your novel will be in. That is, if you write in French, wh not let your girl curse in French?
– LangLangC
2 hours ago