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What would be the subject of a second Brexit Referendum?
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At the moment (Sept. 2018) there's a discussion in the UK whether there should be a "second referendum" on Brexit. In the media there's already a discussion how people would vote. But upon what would they vote?
The initial referendum was fairly clear. Should the UK leave the EU, following the Article 50 procedure? This was an option that was available to the UK, as it is a sovereign country. Parliament could decide, and therefore Parliament could also decide to ask the voters.
Today however the UK has committed itself to leave the EU by March 2019. There are discussions over the exact terms of a secession agreement. But if no agreement could be reached, a no-deal Brexit would happen.
This gives one possible interpretation of the "Second Referendum" - is the proposed EU-UK agreement acceptable, or should the UK choose for a no-deal Brexit? This is of course only possible if there's a proposed agreement in the first place. Voting on "Chequers" (May's current idea of Brexit) is pointless, as the EU already turned it down.
Or would the "Second Referendum" instead be the same choice between Remain and Leave? Media polls seem to suggest this, but I don't see how this is an option. The UK cannot stop Brexit anymore, not even if 60% of voters would want to remain. It's the EU which would have to stop Brexit, and do so unanimously. And that seems beyond farfetched, with the current internal strife (Poland and Hungary at the brink of losing their vote, Italy being annoyed at the other 26 not taking refugees, Greece still sore from the bailout).
Or am I overlooking a third option? Is there some other Brexit matter where the UK can and must make a yes-or-no choice?
united-kingdom brexit
edited 1 hour ago
Martin Tournoij
5,91723864
asked 3 hours ago
MSalters
2,136614
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
At the moment (Sept. 2018) there's a discussion in the UK whether there should be a "second referendum" on Brexit. In the media there's already a discussion how people would vote. But upon what would they vote?
The initial referendum was fairly clear. Should the UK leave the EU, following the Article 50 procedure? This was an option that was available to the UK, as it is a sovereign country. Parliament could decide, and therefore Parliament could also decide to ask the voters.
Today however the UK has committed itself to leave the EU by March 2019. There are discussions over the exact terms of a secession agreement. But if no agreement could be reached, a no-deal Brexit would happen.
This gives one possible interpretation of the "Second Referendum" - is the proposed EU-UK agreement acceptable, or should the UK choose for a no-deal Brexit? This is of course only possible if there's a proposed agreement in the first place. Voting on "Chequers" (May's current idea of Brexit) is pointless, as the EU already turned it down.
Or would the "Second Referendum" instead be the same choice between Remain and Leave? Media polls seem to suggest this, but I don't see how this is an option. The UK cannot stop Brexit anymore, not even if 60% of voters would want to remain. It's the EU which would have to stop Brexit, and do so unanimously. And that seems beyond farfetched, with the current internal strife (Poland and Hungary at the brink of losing their vote, Italy being annoyed at the other 26 not taking refugees, Greece still sore from the bailout).
Or am I overlooking a third option? Is there some other Brexit matter where the UK can and must make a yes-or-no choice?
united-kingdom brexit
edited 1 hour ago
Martin Tournoij
5,91723864
asked 3 hours ago
MSalters
2,136614
1
To this outsider it seems like the "Remain" side is asking for "Best 2 out of 3", but I doubt the "Leave" side would agree to it unless the terms were "Double or nothing"...
– Joe
33 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
At the moment (Sept. 2018) there's a discussion in the UK whether there should be a "second referendum" on Brexit. In the media there's already a discussion how people would vote. But upon what would they vote?
The initial referendum was fairly clear. Should the UK leave the EU, following the Article 50 procedure? This was an option that was available to the UK, as it is a sovereign country. Parliament could decide, and therefore Parliament could also decide to ask the voters.
Today however the UK has committed itself to leave the EU by March 2019. There are discussions over the exact terms of a secession agreement. But if no agreement could be reached, a no-deal Brexit would happen.
This gives one possible interpretation of the "Second Referendum" - is the proposed EU-UK agreement acceptable, or should the UK choose for a no-deal Brexit? This is of course only possible if there's a proposed agreement in the first place. Voting on "Chequers" (May's current idea of Brexit) is pointless, as the EU already turned it down.
Or would the "Second Referendum" instead be the same choice between Remain and Leave? Media polls seem to suggest this, but I don't see how this is an option. The UK cannot stop Brexit anymore, not even if 60% of voters would want to remain. It's the EU which would have to stop Brexit, and do so unanimously. And that seems beyond farfetched, with the current internal strife (Poland and Hungary at the brink of losing their vote, Italy being annoyed at the other 26 not taking refugees, Greece still sore from the bailout).
Or am I overlooking a third option? Is there some other Brexit matter where the UK can and must make a yes-or-no choice?
united-kingdom brexit
edited 1 hour ago
Martin Tournoij
5,91723864
asked 3 hours ago
MSalters
2,136614
At the moment (Sept. 2018) there's a discussion in the UK whether there should be a "second referendum" on Brexit. In the media there's already a discussion how people would vote. But upon what would they vote?
The initial referendum was fairly clear. Should the UK leave the EU, following the Article 50 procedure? This was an option that was available to the UK, as it is a sovereign country. Parliament could decide, and therefore Parliament could also decide to ask the voters.
Today however the UK has committed itself to leave the EU by March 2019. There are discussions over the exact terms of a secession agreement. But if no agreement could be reached, a no-deal Brexit would happen.
This gives one possible interpretation of the "Second Referendum" - is the proposed EU-UK agreement acceptable, or should the UK choose for a no-deal Brexit? This is of course only possible if there's a proposed agreement in the first place. Voting on "Chequers" (May's current idea of Brexit) is pointless, as the EU already turned it down.
Or would the "Second Referendum" instead be the same choice between Remain and Leave? Media polls seem to suggest this, but I don't see how this is an option. The UK cannot stop Brexit anymore, not even if 60% of voters would want to remain. It's the EU which would have to stop Brexit, and do so unanimously. And that seems beyond farfetched, with the current internal strife (Poland and Hungary at the brink of losing their vote, Italy being annoyed at the other 26 not taking refugees, Greece still sore from the bailout).
Or am I overlooking a third option? Is there some other Brexit matter where the UK can and must make a yes-or-no choice?
united-kingdom brexit
united-kingdom brexit
edited 1 hour ago
Martin Tournoij
5,91723864
asked 3 hours ago
MSalters
2,136614
edited 1 hour ago
Martin Tournoij
5,91723864
asked 3 hours ago
MSalters
2,136614
edited 1 hour ago
Martin Tournoij
5,91723864
edited 1 hour ago
Martin Tournoij
5,91723864
edited 1 hour ago
Martin Tournoij
5,91723864
5,91723864
asked 3 hours ago
MSalters
2,136614
asked 3 hours ago
MSalters
2,136614
asked 3 hours ago
MSalters
2,136614
2,136614
1
To this outsider it seems like the "Remain" side is asking for "Best 2 out of 3", but I doubt the "Leave" side would agree to it unless the terms were "Double or nothing"...
– Joe
33 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
To this outsider it seems like the "Remain" side is asking for "Best 2 out of 3", but I doubt the "Leave" side would agree to it unless the terms were "Double or nothing"...
– Joe
33 mins ago
1
1
To this outsider it seems like the "Remain" side is asking for "Best 2 out of 3", but I doubt the "Leave" side would agree to it unless the terms were "Double or nothing"...
– Joe
33 mins ago
To this outsider it seems like the "Remain" side is asking for "Best 2 out of 3", but I doubt the "Leave" side would agree to it unless the terms were "Double or nothing"...
– Joe
33 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
As of September 2018, the answer is that nobody knows.
A first unknown is whether there will be a deal to vote on. Clearly, if there is no deal, then "accept the deal" can't be on the ballot paper. A second unknown is whether, having triggered Article 50, the UK can unilaterally untrigger it - though EU leaders have said on several occasions that they would accept the UK back regardless.
Under the terms of the European Union Withdrawal Agreement (Public Vote) Bill 2017-19, the question would be to either accept the deal or to remain in the EU.
John MacDonnell, shadow chancellor, said (without endorsing the idea) that any second referendum should assume the result of the first, and that the question should thus be whether to accept the deal, or reject it and leave with no deal.
Meanwhile, Justine Greening, former Education Secretary, has advocated a three-way vote with preference voting.
Finally, clearly if there is no deal to vote on - perhaps the least implausible scenario that leads to a second referendum - the only possible choice would be whether to remain in the EU or leave with no deal.
The point I think is that the choice of question depends on the circumstances in which the referendum is called - who calls it and why. Most of the campaigners in favour at this point are disappointed remainers, who will endorse versions that have a remain option and don't necessarily care which leave options are available. But if it's called by the pro-Brexit side, the deal or no deal version would seem more likely.
answered 20 mins ago
Hedgehog
33524
"don't necessarily care which leave options are available" It seems to me that most Remainers have a strong preference for Norway/Canada+ etc. over Chequers and for Chequers over No Deal.
– Rupert Morrish
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
As of September 2018, the answer is that nobody knows.
A first unknown is whether there will be a deal to vote on. Clearly, if there is no deal, then "accept the deal" can't be on the ballot paper. A second unknown is whether, having triggered Article 50, the UK can unilaterally untrigger it - though EU leaders have said on several occasions that they would accept the UK back regardless.
Under the terms of the European Union Withdrawal Agreement (Public Vote) Bill 2017-19, the question would be to either accept the deal or to remain in the EU.
John MacDonnell, shadow chancellor, said (without endorsing the idea) that any second referendum should assume the result of the first, and that the question should thus be whether to accept the deal, or reject it and leave with no deal.
Meanwhile, Justine Greening, former Education Secretary, has advocated a three-way vote with preference voting.
Finally, clearly if there is no deal to vote on - perhaps the least implausible scenario that leads to a second referendum - the only possible choice would be whether to remain in the EU or leave with no deal.
The point I think is that the choice of question depends on the circumstances in which the referendum is called - who calls it and why. Most of the campaigners in favour at this point are disappointed remainers, who will endorse versions that have a remain option and don't necessarily care which leave options are available. But if it's called by the pro-Brexit side, the deal or no deal version would seem more likely.
answered 20 mins ago
Hedgehog
33524
"don't necessarily care which leave options are available" It seems to me that most Remainers have a strong preference for Norway/Canada+ etc. over Chequers and for Chequers over No Deal.
– Rupert Morrish
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
As of September 2018, the answer is that nobody knows.
A first unknown is whether there will be a deal to vote on. Clearly, if there is no deal, then "accept the deal" can't be on the ballot paper. A second unknown is whether, having triggered Article 50, the UK can unilaterally untrigger it - though EU leaders have said on several occasions that they would accept the UK back regardless.
Under the terms of the European Union Withdrawal Agreement (Public Vote) Bill 2017-19, the question would be to either accept the deal or to remain in the EU.
John MacDonnell, shadow chancellor, said (without endorsing the idea) that any second referendum should assume the result of the first, and that the question should thus be whether to accept the deal, or reject it and leave with no deal.
Meanwhile, Justine Greening, former Education Secretary, has advocated a three-way vote with preference voting.
Finally, clearly if there is no deal to vote on - perhaps the least implausible scenario that leads to a second referendum - the only possible choice would be whether to remain in the EU or leave with no deal.
The point I think is that the choice of question depends on the circumstances in which the referendum is called - who calls it and why. Most of the campaigners in favour at this point are disappointed remainers, who will endorse versions that have a remain option and don't necessarily care which leave options are available. But if it's called by the pro-Brexit side, the deal or no deal version would seem more likely.
answered 20 mins ago
Hedgehog
33524
"don't necessarily care which leave options are available" It seems to me that most Remainers have a strong preference for Norway/Canada+ etc. over Chequers and for Chequers over No Deal.
– Rupert Morrish
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
As of September 2018, the answer is that nobody knows.
A first unknown is whether there will be a deal to vote on. Clearly, if there is no deal, then "accept the deal" can't be on the ballot paper. A second unknown is whether, having triggered Article 50, the UK can unilaterally untrigger it - though EU leaders have said on several occasions that they would accept the UK back regardless.
Under the terms of the European Union Withdrawal Agreement (Public Vote) Bill 2017-19, the question would be to either accept the deal or to remain in the EU.
John MacDonnell, shadow chancellor, said (without endorsing the idea) that any second referendum should assume the result of the first, and that the question should thus be whether to accept the deal, or reject it and leave with no deal.
Meanwhile, Justine Greening, former Education Secretary, has advocated a three-way vote with preference voting.
Finally, clearly if there is no deal to vote on - perhaps the least implausible scenario that leads to a second referendum - the only possible choice would be whether to remain in the EU or leave with no deal.
The point I think is that the choice of question depends on the circumstances in which the referendum is called - who calls it and why. Most of the campaigners in favour at this point are disappointed remainers, who will endorse versions that have a remain option and don't necessarily care which leave options are available. But if it's called by the pro-Brexit side, the deal or no deal version would seem more likely.
answered 20 mins ago
Hedgehog
33524
As of September 2018, the answer is that nobody knows.
A first unknown is whether there will be a deal to vote on. Clearly, if there is no deal, then "accept the deal" can't be on the ballot paper. A second unknown is whether, having triggered Article 50, the UK can unilaterally untrigger it - though EU leaders have said on several occasions that they would accept the UK back regardless.
Under the terms of the European Union Withdrawal Agreement (Public Vote) Bill 2017-19, the question would be to either accept the deal or to remain in the EU.
John MacDonnell, shadow chancellor, said (without endorsing the idea) that any second referendum should assume the result of the first, and that the question should thus be whether to accept the deal, or reject it and leave with no deal.
Meanwhile, Justine Greening, former Education Secretary, has advocated a three-way vote with preference voting.
Finally, clearly if there is no deal to vote on - perhaps the least implausible scenario that leads to a second referendum - the only possible choice would be whether to remain in the EU or leave with no deal.
The point I think is that the choice of question depends on the circumstances in which the referendum is called - who calls it and why. Most of the campaigners in favour at this point are disappointed remainers, who will endorse versions that have a remain option and don't necessarily care which leave options are available. But if it's called by the pro-Brexit side, the deal or no deal version would seem more likely.
answered 20 mins ago
Hedgehog
33524
edited 15 mins ago
answered 20 mins ago
Hedgehog
33524
answered 20 mins ago
Hedgehog
33524
answered 20 mins ago
Hedgehog
33524
33524
"don't necessarily care which leave options are available" It seems to me that most Remainers have a strong preference for Norway/Canada+ etc. over Chequers and for Chequers over No Deal.
– Rupert Morrish
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
"don't necessarily care which leave options are available" It seems to me that most Remainers have a strong preference for Norway/Canada+ etc. over Chequers and for Chequers over No Deal.
– Rupert Morrish
8 mins ago
"don't necessarily care which leave options are available" It seems to me that most Remainers have a strong preference for Norway/Canada+ etc. over Chequers and for Chequers over No Deal.
– Rupert Morrish
8 mins ago
"don't necessarily care which leave options are available" It seems to me that most Remainers have a strong preference for Norway/Canada+ etc. over Chequers and for Chequers over No Deal.
– Rupert Morrish
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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1
To this outsider it seems like the "Remain" side is asking for "Best 2 out of 3", but I doubt the "Leave" side would agree to it unless the terms were "Double or nothing"...
– Joe
33 mins ago