What do you make bricks out of in the rainforest?

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Problem statement

There exists a thriving Bronze Age civilization in a gigantic rainforest, bigger than the Amazon and Congo put together. This civilization is built in on the flood plains of a might river system (other questions related here).

Like many other Bronze Age cultures, these people are big on monumental architecture. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of building materials in the rainforest. Sure, there is plenty of wood, but there isn't much stone, and what stone there is must be hauled from thousands of miles away.

I want to build classical Earth's monumental structures, like the mud-brick ziggurats of the Middle East. These structures use fired bricks as the outer surface over a mud brick interior. But, in a land with 2000 mm + per year of rain, these structures would dissolve and wash away in a lifetime.

Question

What materials, available in any rainforest here on Earth, could I use to make bricks? The bricks must be sufficiently durable to last at least thousands of years in a hot humid rainforest, yet sufficiently cheap that a Bronze Age society with a determined priestly/warrior caste could build numerous large temple-palace complexes out of them.

earth-like engineering architecture materials

share|improve this question

asked Sep 5 at 12:10

kingledion

64.5k21202357

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Why not cut stone like the Inca?
  – Richard
  Sep 5 at 18:53
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Consider to change your story because you described the exact reason why Ancient Advanced Acropolis in the Jungle(!) stories are dead horse tropes.
  – Thorsten S.
  Sep 5 at 19:29
  
  

  
  
  
  


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  Simple, mud, but the lack of dry direct sunlight makes it hard to cure 'em.
  – Fattie
  Sep 6 at 1:17
  

  
  
  
  


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  There are some plants that concentrate silicate materials more than others. This can be recovered in the ashes.
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:14
  

  
  
  
  


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  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Question: where does your civ get their bronze from? Bronze is an alloy of 2 materials that as far as I know are hard to come by in the rainforest.
  – Nzall
  Sep 6 at 10:52
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
28
down vote

favorite

2

Problem statement

There exists a thriving Bronze Age civilization in a gigantic rainforest, bigger than the Amazon and Congo put together. This civilization is built in on the flood plains of a might river system (other questions related here).

Like many other Bronze Age cultures, these people are big on monumental architecture. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of building materials in the rainforest. Sure, there is plenty of wood, but there isn't much stone, and what stone there is must be hauled from thousands of miles away.

I want to build classical Earth's monumental structures, like the mud-brick ziggurats of the Middle East. These structures use fired bricks as the outer surface over a mud brick interior. But, in a land with 2000 mm + per year of rain, these structures would dissolve and wash away in a lifetime.

Question

What materials, available in any rainforest here on Earth, could I use to make bricks? The bricks must be sufficiently durable to last at least thousands of years in a hot humid rainforest, yet sufficiently cheap that a Bronze Age society with a determined priestly/warrior caste could build numerous large temple-palace complexes out of them.

earth-like engineering architecture materials

share|improve this question

asked Sep 5 at 12:10

kingledion

64.5k21202357

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Why not cut stone like the Inca?
  – Richard
  Sep 5 at 18:53
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Consider to change your story because you described the exact reason why Ancient Advanced Acropolis in the Jungle(!) stories are dead horse tropes.
  – Thorsten S.
  Sep 5 at 19:29
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Simple, mud, but the lack of dry direct sunlight makes it hard to cure 'em.
  – Fattie
  Sep 6 at 1:17
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There are some plants that concentrate silicate materials more than others. This can be recovered in the ashes.
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:14
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Question: where does your civ get their bronze from? Bronze is an alloy of 2 materials that as far as I know are hard to come by in the rainforest.
  – Nzall
  Sep 6 at 10:52
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
28
down vote

favorite

2

up vote
28
down vote

favorite

2

2

Problem statement

There exists a thriving Bronze Age civilization in a gigantic rainforest, bigger than the Amazon and Congo put together. This civilization is built in on the flood plains of a might river system (other questions related here).

Like many other Bronze Age cultures, these people are big on monumental architecture. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of building materials in the rainforest. Sure, there is plenty of wood, but there isn't much stone, and what stone there is must be hauled from thousands of miles away.

I want to build classical Earth's monumental structures, like the mud-brick ziggurats of the Middle East. These structures use fired bricks as the outer surface over a mud brick interior. But, in a land with 2000 mm + per year of rain, these structures would dissolve and wash away in a lifetime.

Question

What materials, available in any rainforest here on Earth, could I use to make bricks? The bricks must be sufficiently durable to last at least thousands of years in a hot humid rainforest, yet sufficiently cheap that a Bronze Age society with a determined priestly/warrior caste could build numerous large temple-palace complexes out of them.

earth-like engineering architecture materials

share|improve this question

asked Sep 5 at 12:10

kingledion

64.5k21202357

Problem statement

There exists a thriving Bronze Age civilization in a gigantic rainforest, bigger than the Amazon and Congo put together. This civilization is built in on the flood plains of a might river system (other questions related here).

Like many other Bronze Age cultures, these people are big on monumental architecture. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of building materials in the rainforest. Sure, there is plenty of wood, but there isn't much stone, and what stone there is must be hauled from thousands of miles away.

I want to build classical Earth's monumental structures, like the mud-brick ziggurats of the Middle East. These structures use fired bricks as the outer surface over a mud brick interior. But, in a land with 2000 mm + per year of rain, these structures would dissolve and wash away in a lifetime.

Question

What materials, available in any rainforest here on Earth, could I use to make bricks? The bricks must be sufficiently durable to last at least thousands of years in a hot humid rainforest, yet sufficiently cheap that a Bronze Age society with a determined priestly/warrior caste could build numerous large temple-palace complexes out of them.

earth-like engineering architecture materials

share|improve this question

asked Sep 5 at 12:10

kingledion

64.5k21202357

share|improve this question

share|improve this question

asked Sep 5 at 12:10

kingledion

64.5k21202357

asked Sep 5 at 12:10

kingledion

64.5k21202357

asked Sep 5 at 12:10

kingledion

64.5k21202357

64.5k21202357

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Why not cut stone like the Inca?
  – Richard
  Sep 5 at 18:53
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Consider to change your story because you described the exact reason why Ancient Advanced Acropolis in the Jungle(!) stories are dead horse tropes.
  – Thorsten S.
  Sep 5 at 19:29
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Simple, mud, but the lack of dry direct sunlight makes it hard to cure 'em.
  – Fattie
  Sep 6 at 1:17
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There are some plants that concentrate silicate materials more than others. This can be recovered in the ashes.
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:14
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Question: where does your civ get their bronze from? Bronze is an alloy of 2 materials that as far as I know are hard to come by in the rainforest.
  – Nzall
  Sep 6 at 10:52
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Why not cut stone like the Inca?
  – Richard
  Sep 5 at 18:53
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Consider to change your story because you described the exact reason why Ancient Advanced Acropolis in the Jungle(!) stories are dead horse tropes.
  – Thorsten S.
  Sep 5 at 19:29
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Simple, mud, but the lack of dry direct sunlight makes it hard to cure 'em.
  – Fattie
  Sep 6 at 1:17
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There are some plants that concentrate silicate materials more than others. This can be recovered in the ashes.
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:14
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Question: where does your civ get their bronze from? Bronze is an alloy of 2 materials that as far as I know are hard to come by in the rainforest.
  – Nzall
  Sep 6 at 10:52
  

  
  
  
  

4

4

Why not cut stone like the Inca?
– Richard
Sep 5 at 18:53

Why not cut stone like the Inca?
– Richard
Sep 5 at 18:53

1

1

Consider to change your story because you described the exact reason why Ancient Advanced Acropolis in the Jungle(!) stories are dead horse tropes.
– Thorsten S.
Sep 5 at 19:29

Consider to change your story because you described the exact reason why Ancient Advanced Acropolis in the Jungle(!) stories are dead horse tropes.
– Thorsten S.
Sep 5 at 19:29

Simple, mud, but the lack of dry direct sunlight makes it hard to cure 'em.
– Fattie
Sep 6 at 1:17

Simple, mud, but the lack of dry direct sunlight makes it hard to cure 'em.
– Fattie
Sep 6 at 1:17

There are some plants that concentrate silicate materials more than others. This can be recovered in the ashes.
– KalleMP
Sep 6 at 8:14

There are some plants that concentrate silicate materials more than others. This can be recovered in the ashes.
– KalleMP
Sep 6 at 8:14

2

2

Question: where does your civ get their bronze from? Bronze is an alloy of 2 materials that as far as I know are hard to come by in the rainforest.
– Nzall
Sep 6 at 10:52

Question: where does your civ get their bronze from? Bronze is an alloy of 2 materials that as far as I know are hard to come by in the rainforest.
– Nzall
Sep 6 at 10:52

add a comment | 

5 Answers
5

active

oldest

votes

up vote
27
down vote



accepted

You are in the forest. Build of wood. But make it last.

Shou Sugi Ban

https://criticalconcrete.com/shou-sugi-ban/

It’s a counterintuitive but ingenious idea: heating wood to render it
fireproof. If you’ve ever tried to rekindle a campfire using burnt
logs, you get the idea. The combustion also neutralizes the cellulose
in the wood — the carbohydrates that termites, fungus and bacteria
love — making it undesirable to pests and resistant to rot. The
resulting charcoal layer repels water and prevents sun damage as well.
By some estimates, boards that have undergone this process can last 80
years or more, but Japan’s Buddhist Horyuji Temple in Nara prefecture,
whose five-story pagoda is one of the world’s oldest extant wooden
structures, has been around for much longer. Initially built in A.D.
607, the pagoda caught fire and was rebuilt in 711 using shou sugi
ban.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/t-magazine/shou-sugi-ban.html

I was thinking about how durable charcoal is. Charcoal can last thousands of years. But it is brittle - how to build a temple from charcoal? The answer: build it of wood coated with charcoal. The outer charcoal layer provides rot and fire resistance. The inner layer provides structural stability.

This is a Japanese technique and I do not think it has been used elsewhere until its recent renaissance. But imagine this for the rainforest. Scale it up. The rainforest has logs - big ones, of some of the best wood in the world. Cut them. Char them so they will last. Build the Temple of Solomon in the rainforest.

Can you make monumental architecture out of logs? You can.

http://www.offbeatoregon.com/1206c-forestry-building-biggest-log-cabin-burned.html

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 14:08

Willk

86.3k21171375

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  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 7 at 17:46
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
31
down vote

You can still use firebricks, if you apply a double firing process.

First you bake the clay to make the firebrick, then apply a glassy enamel coating material as waterproofing layer and bake it a second time.
Clay can be found in rainforest, as it is the result of the degradation of rocks by means of water (see picture: clay hill in Brazil, made visible by the deforestation)

Clay minerals typically form over long periods of time as a result of the gradual chemical weathering of rocks, usually silicate-bearing, by low concentrations of carbonic acid and other diluted solvents. These solvents, usually acidic, migrate through the weathering rock after leaching through upper weathered layers. In addition to the weathering process, some clay minerals are formed through hydrothermal activity. There are two types of clay deposits: primary and secondary. Primary clays form as residual deposits in soil and remain at the site of formation. Secondary clays are clays that have been transported from their original location by water erosion and deposited in a new sedimentary deposit. Clay deposits are typically associated with very low energy depositional environments such as large lakes and marine basins.

The enamel will prevent water from dampening the brick and reducing its performances.

You can use siliceous sands and sodium or potassium carbonates to prepare the enamel, which should not be impossible to find.

Important notice: enamel is rather brittle, so the coated brick must be handled with care to prevent cracking and water infiltration.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 13:04

answered Sep 5 at 12:18

L.Dutch♦

61.9k18144288

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  Can you explain what you use to make the bricks in the first place? Mesopotamian bricks were just mud. I'd like more details on the materials and where you would find it in the rainforest.
  – kingledion
  Sep 5 at 12:39
  

  
  
  
  


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  @kingledion, clay, not mud, as it is stated in the text.
  – L.Dutch♦
  Sep 5 at 12:50
  

  
  
  
  


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  This may very much be of interest: youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE cracking channel in general.
  – Ynneadwraith
  Sep 5 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


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  Just to add to this, if you've fired your bricks properly then you don't need an enamelled exterior to protect them. Roman bricks in Britain still exist, in a country famous for its rainfall. For sure the exterior will need repairs over time, but the structure itself will not.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 13:31
  

  
  
  
  


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  @Aethenosity Possibly, but the UK also has very high humidity all summer. And as Daniel says, the major cause of weathering on all rock-like surfaces is the freeze-thaw cycle, not purely water or humidity.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 17:06
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

up vote
18
down vote

A good example to use would be the Mayans. Even though their civilization was centered deep in the jungles of Mexico, they were able to build magnificent temples that still stand the test of time, such as Chichen Itza. Even though you said that stone would have to be hauled in from miles away, there is no logical way this could be true on your world, as stone could be found pretty much anywhere if you dig deep enough and take the time to quarry it out of the ground. For example, even though the Mayans were in a jungle where most other types of stone would be hard if not impossible to find, they were able to make use of their limestone deposits, combined with wood and thatch, to build their magnificent cities and temples that still stand to this day. This article does a pretty good job of describing it: https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-mayan-architecture-178447

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

The Weasel Sagas

49312

New contributor

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

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  What makes structural stone inaccessible in places like the Amazon basin and the plains bordering the Mississippi isn't that it's a jungle, nor a rain forest (because the Mississippi plains are neither), but rather the combination of two factors: 1) no nearby mountains (the Mayans had some mountains), and 2) being in a frequent and very large flood plain (the Mayans were not). Over hundreds/thousands of years, the floods deposits immense amounts of mud, but very little rock. Great for farming, lousy for building. And these alluvial plains can be very deep.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 1:06
  
  

  
  
  
  


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  @RBarryYoung the Mayans were on the relatively flat Yucatan peninsula. The Aztecs and Incas had mountains, not the Mayans. Besides, the both the Mississippi Valley (mostly the northern half) and the area where the Mayans used to live do have some karst plains rich in limestone.
  – The Weasel Sagas
  Sep 6 at 1:25
  

  
  
  
  


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  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:16
  

  
  
  
  


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  No, the Yucatan peninsula is small, especially compared to the Amazon and Mississippi plains which are over 1000 miles wide at some points. The OP is positing something even bigger. And again, more importantly, 1) there are mountains to provide structural stone in the Yucatan and 2) it is not a flood plain the way that the Amazon and American plains are.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:20
  
  

  
  
  
  


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  @KalleMP I believe you commented on the wrong answer. Did you mean Willk's answer above?
  – Orphevs
  Sep 6 at 21:48
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
13
down vote

Cut bricks from local stone, like the Mayans did in their jungle civiliation:

https://www.ancient.eu/Maya_Architecture/

Maya architects used readily available local materials, such as
limestone at Palenque and Tikal, sandstone at Quiriguá, and volcanic
tuff at Copan. Blocks were cut using stone tools only. Burnt-lime
cement was used to create a form of concrete and was occasionally used
as mortar, as was simple mud. Exterior surfaces were faced with stucco
and decorated with high relief carvings or three-dimensional
sculpture. Walls might also have fine veneers of ashlar slabs placed
over a rubble core, a feature of buildings in the Puuc region.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 16:39

answered Sep 5 at 14:58

user151841

1,597214

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  The premise of the question is that this stone is not practically available.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


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  @RBarryYoung depends on the definition of "practical". The stone for the pyramids were quarried from miles away and hauled over sand: "Granite for the King's Chamber in Khufu's pyramid was brought over more than 900km from Aswan and white limestone for the outer casing from Tura, a few kilometers south of Giza." cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-quarries.html
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:32
  

  
  
  
  


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  "Miles away", not thousands of miles. And most of the transport distance was covered by barges on the Nile. And there's lots of available exposed structural stone near the Nile, whose lower lengths has a very long but relatively narrow flood plain, unlike the Amazon and the Mississippi. Please keep in mind that the unavailability of structural stone was the premise of the question. When answering questions you shouldn't violate the premise without very good reason, which doesn't exist here because what the OP is positing is perfectly reasonable.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:37
  
  

  
  
  
  


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  @RBarryYoung flag the answer. 900 km is ~ 600 miles. If you want the most impressive temple in the land, don't build it out of mud bricks like the local loser chiefs; conspicuously display your wealth with granite from thousands of miles away.
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:39
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
7
down vote

You can still use mud bricks but:

If you want to build something like this then the culture of the tribe will be built around it

The thing to remember with mud bricks is they are a semi-permanent building material, outside a desert they will wash away within a lifetime. A structure like the Great Mosque of Djenné requires annual maintenance involving the whole community to keep it standing. Without that it would not be many years before it all washed away.

But that's all part of the price to pay for using mud bricks, building a great structure like this from mud bricks is not a one off gathering of the tribe, but a repeating event as often as deemed necessary to maintain the structure. Maintaining the ziggurat is now a fundamental part of your culture.

Of course it's not going to be all that wet

While your culture may have grown out of the rainforest, by the time they're thinking of building this sort of structure they've already headed down the path to large scale land clearance. They already have a culture of building (semi)permanent mudbrick structures. They may even have started farming requiring even greater clearance of land. That clearance of the rainforest will decrease the annual rainfall significantly. If they're lucky that clearance will also give them access to the clay layer (if there is one) to make longer lasting baked clay bricks.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 14:32

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

Separatrix

67.7k30159264

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5 Answers
5

active

oldest

votes

5 Answers
5

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

up vote
27
down vote



accepted

You are in the forest. Build of wood. But make it last.

Shou Sugi Ban

https://criticalconcrete.com/shou-sugi-ban/

It’s a counterintuitive but ingenious idea: heating wood to render it
fireproof. If you’ve ever tried to rekindle a campfire using burnt
logs, you get the idea. The combustion also neutralizes the cellulose
in the wood — the carbohydrates that termites, fungus and bacteria
love — making it undesirable to pests and resistant to rot. The
resulting charcoal layer repels water and prevents sun damage as well.
By some estimates, boards that have undergone this process can last 80
years or more, but Japan’s Buddhist Horyuji Temple in Nara prefecture,
whose five-story pagoda is one of the world’s oldest extant wooden
structures, has been around for much longer. Initially built in A.D.
607, the pagoda caught fire and was rebuilt in 711 using shou sugi
ban.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/t-magazine/shou-sugi-ban.html

I was thinking about how durable charcoal is. Charcoal can last thousands of years. But it is brittle - how to build a temple from charcoal? The answer: build it of wood coated with charcoal. The outer charcoal layer provides rot and fire resistance. The inner layer provides structural stability.

This is a Japanese technique and I do not think it has been used elsewhere until its recent renaissance. But imagine this for the rainforest. Scale it up. The rainforest has logs - big ones, of some of the best wood in the world. Cut them. Char them so they will last. Build the Temple of Solomon in the rainforest.

Can you make monumental architecture out of logs? You can.

http://www.offbeatoregon.com/1206c-forestry-building-biggest-log-cabin-burned.html

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 14:08

Willk

86.3k21171375

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 7 at 17:46
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
27
down vote



accepted

You are in the forest. Build of wood. But make it last.

Shou Sugi Ban

https://criticalconcrete.com/shou-sugi-ban/

It’s a counterintuitive but ingenious idea: heating wood to render it
fireproof. If you’ve ever tried to rekindle a campfire using burnt
logs, you get the idea. The combustion also neutralizes the cellulose
in the wood — the carbohydrates that termites, fungus and bacteria
love — making it undesirable to pests and resistant to rot. The
resulting charcoal layer repels water and prevents sun damage as well.
By some estimates, boards that have undergone this process can last 80
years or more, but Japan’s Buddhist Horyuji Temple in Nara prefecture,
whose five-story pagoda is one of the world’s oldest extant wooden
structures, has been around for much longer. Initially built in A.D.
607, the pagoda caught fire and was rebuilt in 711 using shou sugi
ban.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/t-magazine/shou-sugi-ban.html

I was thinking about how durable charcoal is. Charcoal can last thousands of years. But it is brittle - how to build a temple from charcoal? The answer: build it of wood coated with charcoal. The outer charcoal layer provides rot and fire resistance. The inner layer provides structural stability.

This is a Japanese technique and I do not think it has been used elsewhere until its recent renaissance. But imagine this for the rainforest. Scale it up. The rainforest has logs - big ones, of some of the best wood in the world. Cut them. Char them so they will last. Build the Temple of Solomon in the rainforest.

Can you make monumental architecture out of logs? You can.

http://www.offbeatoregon.com/1206c-forestry-building-biggest-log-cabin-burned.html

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 14:08

Willk

86.3k21171375

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 7 at 17:46
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
27
down vote



accepted

up vote
27
down vote



accepted

You are in the forest. Build of wood. But make it last.

Shou Sugi Ban

https://criticalconcrete.com/shou-sugi-ban/

It’s a counterintuitive but ingenious idea: heating wood to render it
fireproof. If you’ve ever tried to rekindle a campfire using burnt
logs, you get the idea. The combustion also neutralizes the cellulose
in the wood — the carbohydrates that termites, fungus and bacteria
love — making it undesirable to pests and resistant to rot. The
resulting charcoal layer repels water and prevents sun damage as well.
By some estimates, boards that have undergone this process can last 80
years or more, but Japan’s Buddhist Horyuji Temple in Nara prefecture,
whose five-story pagoda is one of the world’s oldest extant wooden
structures, has been around for much longer. Initially built in A.D.
607, the pagoda caught fire and was rebuilt in 711 using shou sugi
ban.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/t-magazine/shou-sugi-ban.html

I was thinking about how durable charcoal is. Charcoal can last thousands of years. But it is brittle - how to build a temple from charcoal? The answer: build it of wood coated with charcoal. The outer charcoal layer provides rot and fire resistance. The inner layer provides structural stability.

This is a Japanese technique and I do not think it has been used elsewhere until its recent renaissance. But imagine this for the rainforest. Scale it up. The rainforest has logs - big ones, of some of the best wood in the world. Cut them. Char them so they will last. Build the Temple of Solomon in the rainforest.

Can you make monumental architecture out of logs? You can.

http://www.offbeatoregon.com/1206c-forestry-building-biggest-log-cabin-burned.html

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 14:08

Willk

86.3k21171375

You are in the forest. Build of wood. But make it last.

Shou Sugi Ban

https://criticalconcrete.com/shou-sugi-ban/

It’s a counterintuitive but ingenious idea: heating wood to render it
fireproof. If you’ve ever tried to rekindle a campfire using burnt
logs, you get the idea. The combustion also neutralizes the cellulose
in the wood — the carbohydrates that termites, fungus and bacteria
love — making it undesirable to pests and resistant to rot. The
resulting charcoal layer repels water and prevents sun damage as well.
By some estimates, boards that have undergone this process can last 80
years or more, but Japan’s Buddhist Horyuji Temple in Nara prefecture,
whose five-story pagoda is one of the world’s oldest extant wooden
structures, has been around for much longer. Initially built in A.D.
607, the pagoda caught fire and was rebuilt in 711 using shou sugi
ban.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/t-magazine/shou-sugi-ban.html

I was thinking about how durable charcoal is. Charcoal can last thousands of years. But it is brittle - how to build a temple from charcoal? The answer: build it of wood coated with charcoal. The outer charcoal layer provides rot and fire resistance. The inner layer provides structural stability.

This is a Japanese technique and I do not think it has been used elsewhere until its recent renaissance. But imagine this for the rainforest. Scale it up. The rainforest has logs - big ones, of some of the best wood in the world. Cut them. Char them so they will last. Build the Temple of Solomon in the rainforest.

Can you make monumental architecture out of logs? You can.

http://www.offbeatoregon.com/1206c-forestry-building-biggest-log-cabin-burned.html

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 14:08

Willk

86.3k21171375

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 14:08

Willk

86.3k21171375

answered Sep 5 at 14:08

Willk

86.3k21171375

answered Sep 5 at 14:08

Willk

86.3k21171375

86.3k21171375

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 7 at 17:46
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 7 at 17:46
  

  
  
  
  

1

1

Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
– KalleMP
Sep 7 at 17:46

Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
– KalleMP
Sep 7 at 17:46

add a comment | 

up vote
31
down vote

You can still use firebricks, if you apply a double firing process.

First you bake the clay to make the firebrick, then apply a glassy enamel coating material as waterproofing layer and bake it a second time.
Clay can be found in rainforest, as it is the result of the degradation of rocks by means of water (see picture: clay hill in Brazil, made visible by the deforestation)

Clay minerals typically form over long periods of time as a result of the gradual chemical weathering of rocks, usually silicate-bearing, by low concentrations of carbonic acid and other diluted solvents. These solvents, usually acidic, migrate through the weathering rock after leaching through upper weathered layers. In addition to the weathering process, some clay minerals are formed through hydrothermal activity. There are two types of clay deposits: primary and secondary. Primary clays form as residual deposits in soil and remain at the site of formation. Secondary clays are clays that have been transported from their original location by water erosion and deposited in a new sedimentary deposit. Clay deposits are typically associated with very low energy depositional environments such as large lakes and marine basins.

The enamel will prevent water from dampening the brick and reducing its performances.

You can use siliceous sands and sodium or potassium carbonates to prepare the enamel, which should not be impossible to find.

Important notice: enamel is rather brittle, so the coated brick must be handled with care to prevent cracking and water infiltration.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 13:04

answered Sep 5 at 12:18

L.Dutch♦

61.9k18144288

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Can you explain what you use to make the bricks in the first place? Mesopotamian bricks were just mud. I'd like more details on the materials and where you would find it in the rainforest.
  – kingledion
  Sep 5 at 12:39
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @kingledion, clay, not mud, as it is stated in the text.
  – L.Dutch♦
  Sep 5 at 12:50
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  8
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This may very much be of interest: youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE cracking channel in general.
  – Ynneadwraith
  Sep 5 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  15
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Just to add to this, if you've fired your bricks properly then you don't need an enamelled exterior to protect them. Roman bricks in Britain still exist, in a country famous for its rainfall. For sure the exterior will need repairs over time, but the structure itself will not.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 13:31
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  9
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Aethenosity Possibly, but the UK also has very high humidity all summer. And as Daniel says, the major cause of weathering on all rock-like surfaces is the freeze-thaw cycle, not purely water or humidity.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 17:06
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

up vote
31
down vote

You can still use firebricks, if you apply a double firing process.

First you bake the clay to make the firebrick, then apply a glassy enamel coating material as waterproofing layer and bake it a second time.
Clay can be found in rainforest, as it is the result of the degradation of rocks by means of water (see picture: clay hill in Brazil, made visible by the deforestation)

Clay minerals typically form over long periods of time as a result of the gradual chemical weathering of rocks, usually silicate-bearing, by low concentrations of carbonic acid and other diluted solvents. These solvents, usually acidic, migrate through the weathering rock after leaching through upper weathered layers. In addition to the weathering process, some clay minerals are formed through hydrothermal activity. There are two types of clay deposits: primary and secondary. Primary clays form as residual deposits in soil and remain at the site of formation. Secondary clays are clays that have been transported from their original location by water erosion and deposited in a new sedimentary deposit. Clay deposits are typically associated with very low energy depositional environments such as large lakes and marine basins.

The enamel will prevent water from dampening the brick and reducing its performances.

You can use siliceous sands and sodium or potassium carbonates to prepare the enamel, which should not be impossible to find.

Important notice: enamel is rather brittle, so the coated brick must be handled with care to prevent cracking and water infiltration.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 13:04

answered Sep 5 at 12:18

L.Dutch♦

61.9k18144288

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Can you explain what you use to make the bricks in the first place? Mesopotamian bricks were just mud. I'd like more details on the materials and where you would find it in the rainforest.
  – kingledion
  Sep 5 at 12:39
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @kingledion, clay, not mud, as it is stated in the text.
  – L.Dutch♦
  Sep 5 at 12:50
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  8
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This may very much be of interest: youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE cracking channel in general.
  – Ynneadwraith
  Sep 5 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  15
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Just to add to this, if you've fired your bricks properly then you don't need an enamelled exterior to protect them. Roman bricks in Britain still exist, in a country famous for its rainfall. For sure the exterior will need repairs over time, but the structure itself will not.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 13:31
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  9
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Aethenosity Possibly, but the UK also has very high humidity all summer. And as Daniel says, the major cause of weathering on all rock-like surfaces is the freeze-thaw cycle, not purely water or humidity.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 17:06
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

up vote
31
down vote

up vote
31
down vote

You can still use firebricks, if you apply a double firing process.

First you bake the clay to make the firebrick, then apply a glassy enamel coating material as waterproofing layer and bake it a second time.
Clay can be found in rainforest, as it is the result of the degradation of rocks by means of water (see picture: clay hill in Brazil, made visible by the deforestation)

Clay minerals typically form over long periods of time as a result of the gradual chemical weathering of rocks, usually silicate-bearing, by low concentrations of carbonic acid and other diluted solvents. These solvents, usually acidic, migrate through the weathering rock after leaching through upper weathered layers. In addition to the weathering process, some clay minerals are formed through hydrothermal activity. There are two types of clay deposits: primary and secondary. Primary clays form as residual deposits in soil and remain at the site of formation. Secondary clays are clays that have been transported from their original location by water erosion and deposited in a new sedimentary deposit. Clay deposits are typically associated with very low energy depositional environments such as large lakes and marine basins.

The enamel will prevent water from dampening the brick and reducing its performances.

You can use siliceous sands and sodium or potassium carbonates to prepare the enamel, which should not be impossible to find.

Important notice: enamel is rather brittle, so the coated brick must be handled with care to prevent cracking and water infiltration.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 13:04

answered Sep 5 at 12:18

L.Dutch♦

61.9k18144288

You can still use firebricks, if you apply a double firing process.

First you bake the clay to make the firebrick, then apply a glassy enamel coating material as waterproofing layer and bake it a second time.
Clay can be found in rainforest, as it is the result of the degradation of rocks by means of water (see picture: clay hill in Brazil, made visible by the deforestation)

Clay minerals typically form over long periods of time as a result of the gradual chemical weathering of rocks, usually silicate-bearing, by low concentrations of carbonic acid and other diluted solvents. These solvents, usually acidic, migrate through the weathering rock after leaching through upper weathered layers. In addition to the weathering process, some clay minerals are formed through hydrothermal activity. There are two types of clay deposits: primary and secondary. Primary clays form as residual deposits in soil and remain at the site of formation. Secondary clays are clays that have been transported from their original location by water erosion and deposited in a new sedimentary deposit. Clay deposits are typically associated with very low energy depositional environments such as large lakes and marine basins.

The enamel will prevent water from dampening the brick and reducing its performances.

You can use siliceous sands and sodium or potassium carbonates to prepare the enamel, which should not be impossible to find.

Important notice: enamel is rather brittle, so the coated brick must be handled with care to prevent cracking and water infiltration.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 13:04

answered Sep 5 at 12:18

L.Dutch♦

61.9k18144288

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 13:04

edited Sep 5 at 13:04

edited Sep 5 at 13:04

answered Sep 5 at 12:18

L.Dutch♦

61.9k18144288

answered Sep 5 at 12:18

L.Dutch♦

61.9k18144288

answered Sep 5 at 12:18

L.Dutch♦

61.9k18144288

61.9k18144288

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Can you explain what you use to make the bricks in the first place? Mesopotamian bricks were just mud. I'd like more details on the materials and where you would find it in the rainforest.
  – kingledion
  Sep 5 at 12:39
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @kingledion, clay, not mud, as it is stated in the text.
  – L.Dutch♦
  Sep 5 at 12:50
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  8
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This may very much be of interest: youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE cracking channel in general.
  – Ynneadwraith
  Sep 5 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  15
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Just to add to this, if you've fired your bricks properly then you don't need an enamelled exterior to protect them. Roman bricks in Britain still exist, in a country famous for its rainfall. For sure the exterior will need repairs over time, but the structure itself will not.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 13:31
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  9
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Aethenosity Possibly, but the UK also has very high humidity all summer. And as Daniel says, the major cause of weathering on all rock-like surfaces is the freeze-thaw cycle, not purely water or humidity.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 17:06
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Can you explain what you use to make the bricks in the first place? Mesopotamian bricks were just mud. I'd like more details on the materials and where you would find it in the rainforest.
  – kingledion
  Sep 5 at 12:39
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @kingledion, clay, not mud, as it is stated in the text.
  – L.Dutch♦
  Sep 5 at 12:50
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  8
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This may very much be of interest: youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE cracking channel in general.
  – Ynneadwraith
  Sep 5 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  15
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Just to add to this, if you've fired your bricks properly then you don't need an enamelled exterior to protect them. Roman bricks in Britain still exist, in a country famous for its rainfall. For sure the exterior will need repairs over time, but the structure itself will not.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 13:31
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  9
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Aethenosity Possibly, but the UK also has very high humidity all summer. And as Daniel says, the major cause of weathering on all rock-like surfaces is the freeze-thaw cycle, not purely water or humidity.
  – Graham
  Sep 5 at 17:06
  

  
  
  
  

Can you explain what you use to make the bricks in the first place? Mesopotamian bricks were just mud. I'd like more details on the materials and where you would find it in the rainforest.
– kingledion
Sep 5 at 12:39

Can you explain what you use to make the bricks in the first place? Mesopotamian bricks were just mud. I'd like more details on the materials and where you would find it in the rainforest.
– kingledion
Sep 5 at 12:39

3

3

@kingledion, clay, not mud, as it is stated in the text.
– L.Dutch♦
Sep 5 at 12:50

@kingledion, clay, not mud, as it is stated in the text.
– L.Dutch♦
Sep 5 at 12:50

8

8

This may very much be of interest: youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE cracking channel in general.
– Ynneadwraith
Sep 5 at 13:24

This may very much be of interest: youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE cracking channel in general.
– Ynneadwraith
Sep 5 at 13:24

15

15

Just to add to this, if you've fired your bricks properly then you don't need an enamelled exterior to protect them. Roman bricks in Britain still exist, in a country famous for its rainfall. For sure the exterior will need repairs over time, but the structure itself will not.
– Graham
Sep 5 at 13:31

Just to add to this, if you've fired your bricks properly then you don't need an enamelled exterior to protect them. Roman bricks in Britain still exist, in a country famous for its rainfall. For sure the exterior will need repairs over time, but the structure itself will not.
– Graham
Sep 5 at 13:31

9

9

@Aethenosity Possibly, but the UK also has very high humidity all summer. And as Daniel says, the major cause of weathering on all rock-like surfaces is the freeze-thaw cycle, not purely water or humidity.
– Graham
Sep 5 at 17:06

@Aethenosity Possibly, but the UK also has very high humidity all summer. And as Daniel says, the major cause of weathering on all rock-like surfaces is the freeze-thaw cycle, not purely water or humidity.
– Graham
Sep 5 at 17:06

 | 
show 2 more comments

up vote
18
down vote

A good example to use would be the Mayans. Even though their civilization was centered deep in the jungles of Mexico, they were able to build magnificent temples that still stand the test of time, such as Chichen Itza. Even though you said that stone would have to be hauled in from miles away, there is no logical way this could be true on your world, as stone could be found pretty much anywhere if you dig deep enough and take the time to quarry it out of the ground. For example, even though the Mayans were in a jungle where most other types of stone would be hard if not impossible to find, they were able to make use of their limestone deposits, combined with wood and thatch, to build their magnificent cities and temples that still stand to this day. This article does a pretty good job of describing it: https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-mayan-architecture-178447

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

The Weasel Sagas

49312

New contributor

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What makes structural stone inaccessible in places like the Amazon basin and the plains bordering the Mississippi isn't that it's a jungle, nor a rain forest (because the Mississippi plains are neither), but rather the combination of two factors: 1) no nearby mountains (the Mayans had some mountains), and 2) being in a frequent and very large flood plain (the Mayans were not). Over hundreds/thousands of years, the floods deposits immense amounts of mud, but very little rock. Great for farming, lousy for building. And these alluvial plains can be very deep.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 1:06
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung the Mayans were on the relatively flat Yucatan peninsula. The Aztecs and Incas had mountains, not the Mayans. Besides, the both the Mississippi Valley (mostly the northern half) and the area where the Mayans used to live do have some karst plains rich in limestone.
  – The Weasel Sagas
  Sep 6 at 1:25
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:16
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  No, the Yucatan peninsula is small, especially compared to the Amazon and Mississippi plains which are over 1000 miles wide at some points. The OP is positing something even bigger. And again, more importantly, 1) there are mountains to provide structural stone in the Yucatan and 2) it is not a flood plain the way that the Amazon and American plains are.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:20
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KalleMP I believe you commented on the wrong answer. Did you mean Willk's answer above?
  – Orphevs
  Sep 6 at 21:48
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
18
down vote

A good example to use would be the Mayans. Even though their civilization was centered deep in the jungles of Mexico, they were able to build magnificent temples that still stand the test of time, such as Chichen Itza. Even though you said that stone would have to be hauled in from miles away, there is no logical way this could be true on your world, as stone could be found pretty much anywhere if you dig deep enough and take the time to quarry it out of the ground. For example, even though the Mayans were in a jungle where most other types of stone would be hard if not impossible to find, they were able to make use of their limestone deposits, combined with wood and thatch, to build their magnificent cities and temples that still stand to this day. This article does a pretty good job of describing it: https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-mayan-architecture-178447

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

The Weasel Sagas

49312

New contributor

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What makes structural stone inaccessible in places like the Amazon basin and the plains bordering the Mississippi isn't that it's a jungle, nor a rain forest (because the Mississippi plains are neither), but rather the combination of two factors: 1) no nearby mountains (the Mayans had some mountains), and 2) being in a frequent and very large flood plain (the Mayans were not). Over hundreds/thousands of years, the floods deposits immense amounts of mud, but very little rock. Great for farming, lousy for building. And these alluvial plains can be very deep.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 1:06
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung the Mayans were on the relatively flat Yucatan peninsula. The Aztecs and Incas had mountains, not the Mayans. Besides, the both the Mississippi Valley (mostly the northern half) and the area where the Mayans used to live do have some karst plains rich in limestone.
  – The Weasel Sagas
  Sep 6 at 1:25
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:16
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  No, the Yucatan peninsula is small, especially compared to the Amazon and Mississippi plains which are over 1000 miles wide at some points. The OP is positing something even bigger. And again, more importantly, 1) there are mountains to provide structural stone in the Yucatan and 2) it is not a flood plain the way that the Amazon and American plains are.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:20
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KalleMP I believe you commented on the wrong answer. Did you mean Willk's answer above?
  – Orphevs
  Sep 6 at 21:48
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
18
down vote

up vote
18
down vote

A good example to use would be the Mayans. Even though their civilization was centered deep in the jungles of Mexico, they were able to build magnificent temples that still stand the test of time, such as Chichen Itza. Even though you said that stone would have to be hauled in from miles away, there is no logical way this could be true on your world, as stone could be found pretty much anywhere if you dig deep enough and take the time to quarry it out of the ground. For example, even though the Mayans were in a jungle where most other types of stone would be hard if not impossible to find, they were able to make use of their limestone deposits, combined with wood and thatch, to build their magnificent cities and temples that still stand to this day. This article does a pretty good job of describing it: https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-mayan-architecture-178447

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

The Weasel Sagas

49312

New contributor

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

A good example to use would be the Mayans. Even though their civilization was centered deep in the jungles of Mexico, they were able to build magnificent temples that still stand the test of time, such as Chichen Itza. Even though you said that stone would have to be hauled in from miles away, there is no logical way this could be true on your world, as stone could be found pretty much anywhere if you dig deep enough and take the time to quarry it out of the ground. For example, even though the Mayans were in a jungle where most other types of stone would be hard if not impossible to find, they were able to make use of their limestone deposits, combined with wood and thatch, to build their magnificent cities and temples that still stand to this day. This article does a pretty good job of describing it: https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-mayan-architecture-178447

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

The Weasel Sagas

49312

New contributor

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

The Weasel Sagas

49312

New contributor

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

The Weasel Sagas

49312

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

The Weasel Sagas

49312

49312

New contributor

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

New contributor

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

The Weasel Sagas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What makes structural stone inaccessible in places like the Amazon basin and the plains bordering the Mississippi isn't that it's a jungle, nor a rain forest (because the Mississippi plains are neither), but rather the combination of two factors: 1) no nearby mountains (the Mayans had some mountains), and 2) being in a frequent and very large flood plain (the Mayans were not). Over hundreds/thousands of years, the floods deposits immense amounts of mud, but very little rock. Great for farming, lousy for building. And these alluvial plains can be very deep.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 1:06
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung the Mayans were on the relatively flat Yucatan peninsula. The Aztecs and Incas had mountains, not the Mayans. Besides, the both the Mississippi Valley (mostly the northern half) and the area where the Mayans used to live do have some karst plains rich in limestone.
  – The Weasel Sagas
  Sep 6 at 1:25
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:16
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  No, the Yucatan peninsula is small, especially compared to the Amazon and Mississippi plains which are over 1000 miles wide at some points. The OP is positing something even bigger. And again, more importantly, 1) there are mountains to provide structural stone in the Yucatan and 2) it is not a flood plain the way that the Amazon and American plains are.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:20
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KalleMP I believe you commented on the wrong answer. Did you mean Willk's answer above?
  – Orphevs
  Sep 6 at 21:48
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What makes structural stone inaccessible in places like the Amazon basin and the plains bordering the Mississippi isn't that it's a jungle, nor a rain forest (because the Mississippi plains are neither), but rather the combination of two factors: 1) no nearby mountains (the Mayans had some mountains), and 2) being in a frequent and very large flood plain (the Mayans were not). Over hundreds/thousands of years, the floods deposits immense amounts of mud, but very little rock. Great for farming, lousy for building. And these alluvial plains can be very deep.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 1:06
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung the Mayans were on the relatively flat Yucatan peninsula. The Aztecs and Incas had mountains, not the Mayans. Besides, the both the Mississippi Valley (mostly the northern half) and the area where the Mayans used to live do have some karst plains rich in limestone.
  – The Weasel Sagas
  Sep 6 at 1:25
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
  – KalleMP
  Sep 6 at 8:16
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  No, the Yucatan peninsula is small, especially compared to the Amazon and Mississippi plains which are over 1000 miles wide at some points. The OP is positing something even bigger. And again, more importantly, 1) there are mountains to provide structural stone in the Yucatan and 2) it is not a flood plain the way that the Amazon and American plains are.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:20
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KalleMP I believe you commented on the wrong answer. Did you mean Willk's answer above?
  – Orphevs
  Sep 6 at 21:48
  

  
  
  
  

3

3

What makes structural stone inaccessible in places like the Amazon basin and the plains bordering the Mississippi isn't that it's a jungle, nor a rain forest (because the Mississippi plains are neither), but rather the combination of two factors: 1) no nearby mountains (the Mayans had some mountains), and 2) being in a frequent and very large flood plain (the Mayans were not). Over hundreds/thousands of years, the floods deposits immense amounts of mud, but very little rock. Great for farming, lousy for building. And these alluvial plains can be very deep.
– RBarryYoung
Sep 6 at 1:06

What makes structural stone inaccessible in places like the Amazon basin and the plains bordering the Mississippi isn't that it's a jungle, nor a rain forest (because the Mississippi plains are neither), but rather the combination of two factors: 1) no nearby mountains (the Mayans had some mountains), and 2) being in a frequent and very large flood plain (the Mayans were not). Over hundreds/thousands of years, the floods deposits immense amounts of mud, but very little rock. Great for farming, lousy for building. And these alluvial plains can be very deep.
– RBarryYoung
Sep 6 at 1:06

@RBarryYoung the Mayans were on the relatively flat Yucatan peninsula. The Aztecs and Incas had mountains, not the Mayans. Besides, the both the Mississippi Valley (mostly the northern half) and the area where the Mayans used to live do have some karst plains rich in limestone.
– The Weasel Sagas
Sep 6 at 1:25

@RBarryYoung the Mayans were on the relatively flat Yucatan peninsula. The Aztecs and Incas had mountains, not the Mayans. Besides, the both the Mississippi Valley (mostly the northern half) and the area where the Mayans used to live do have some karst plains rich in limestone.
– The Weasel Sagas
Sep 6 at 1:25

Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
– KalleMP
Sep 6 at 8:16

Adding a char layer to protect wood is great. This is a thing in the west these days as well. Combining the techniques may add to the benefits. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermally_modified_wood
– KalleMP
Sep 6 at 8:16

1

1

No, the Yucatan peninsula is small, especially compared to the Amazon and Mississippi plains which are over 1000 miles wide at some points. The OP is positing something even bigger. And again, more importantly, 1) there are mountains to provide structural stone in the Yucatan and 2) it is not a flood plain the way that the Amazon and American plains are.
– RBarryYoung
Sep 6 at 13:20

No, the Yucatan peninsula is small, especially compared to the Amazon and Mississippi plains which are over 1000 miles wide at some points. The OP is positing something even bigger. And again, more importantly, 1) there are mountains to provide structural stone in the Yucatan and 2) it is not a flood plain the way that the Amazon and American plains are.
– RBarryYoung
Sep 6 at 13:20

1

1

@KalleMP I believe you commented on the wrong answer. Did you mean Willk's answer above?
– Orphevs
Sep 6 at 21:48

@KalleMP I believe you commented on the wrong answer. Did you mean Willk's answer above?
– Orphevs
Sep 6 at 21:48

add a comment | 

up vote
13
down vote

Cut bricks from local stone, like the Mayans did in their jungle civiliation:

https://www.ancient.eu/Maya_Architecture/

Maya architects used readily available local materials, such as
limestone at Palenque and Tikal, sandstone at Quiriguá, and volcanic
tuff at Copan. Blocks were cut using stone tools only. Burnt-lime
cement was used to create a form of concrete and was occasionally used
as mortar, as was simple mud. Exterior surfaces were faced with stucco
and decorated with high relief carvings or three-dimensional
sculpture. Walls might also have fine veneers of ashlar slabs placed
over a rubble core, a feature of buildings in the Puuc region.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 16:39

answered Sep 5 at 14:58

user151841

1,597214

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The premise of the question is that this stone is not practically available.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung depends on the definition of "practical". The stone for the pyramids were quarried from miles away and hauled over sand: "Granite for the King's Chamber in Khufu's pyramid was brought over more than 900km from Aswan and white limestone for the outer casing from Tura, a few kilometers south of Giza." cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-quarries.html
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:32
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "Miles away", not thousands of miles. And most of the transport distance was covered by barges on the Nile. And there's lots of available exposed structural stone near the Nile, whose lower lengths has a very long but relatively narrow flood plain, unlike the Amazon and the Mississippi. Please keep in mind that the unavailability of structural stone was the premise of the question. When answering questions you shouldn't violate the premise without very good reason, which doesn't exist here because what the OP is positing is perfectly reasonable.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:37
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung flag the answer. 900 km is ~ 600 miles. If you want the most impressive temple in the land, don't build it out of mud bricks like the local loser chiefs; conspicuously display your wealth with granite from thousands of miles away.
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:39
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
13
down vote

Cut bricks from local stone, like the Mayans did in their jungle civiliation:

https://www.ancient.eu/Maya_Architecture/

Maya architects used readily available local materials, such as
limestone at Palenque and Tikal, sandstone at Quiriguá, and volcanic
tuff at Copan. Blocks were cut using stone tools only. Burnt-lime
cement was used to create a form of concrete and was occasionally used
as mortar, as was simple mud. Exterior surfaces were faced with stucco
and decorated with high relief carvings or three-dimensional
sculpture. Walls might also have fine veneers of ashlar slabs placed
over a rubble core, a feature of buildings in the Puuc region.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 16:39

answered Sep 5 at 14:58

user151841

1,597214

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The premise of the question is that this stone is not practically available.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung depends on the definition of "practical". The stone for the pyramids were quarried from miles away and hauled over sand: "Granite for the King's Chamber in Khufu's pyramid was brought over more than 900km from Aswan and white limestone for the outer casing from Tura, a few kilometers south of Giza." cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-quarries.html
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:32
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "Miles away", not thousands of miles. And most of the transport distance was covered by barges on the Nile. And there's lots of available exposed structural stone near the Nile, whose lower lengths has a very long but relatively narrow flood plain, unlike the Amazon and the Mississippi. Please keep in mind that the unavailability of structural stone was the premise of the question. When answering questions you shouldn't violate the premise without very good reason, which doesn't exist here because what the OP is positing is perfectly reasonable.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:37
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung flag the answer. 900 km is ~ 600 miles. If you want the most impressive temple in the land, don't build it out of mud bricks like the local loser chiefs; conspicuously display your wealth with granite from thousands of miles away.
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:39
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
13
down vote

up vote
13
down vote

Cut bricks from local stone, like the Mayans did in their jungle civiliation:

https://www.ancient.eu/Maya_Architecture/

Maya architects used readily available local materials, such as
limestone at Palenque and Tikal, sandstone at Quiriguá, and volcanic
tuff at Copan. Blocks were cut using stone tools only. Burnt-lime
cement was used to create a form of concrete and was occasionally used
as mortar, as was simple mud. Exterior surfaces were faced with stucco
and decorated with high relief carvings or three-dimensional
sculpture. Walls might also have fine veneers of ashlar slabs placed
over a rubble core, a feature of buildings in the Puuc region.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 16:39

answered Sep 5 at 14:58

user151841

1,597214

Cut bricks from local stone, like the Mayans did in their jungle civiliation:

https://www.ancient.eu/Maya_Architecture/

Maya architects used readily available local materials, such as
limestone at Palenque and Tikal, sandstone at Quiriguá, and volcanic
tuff at Copan. Blocks were cut using stone tools only. Burnt-lime
cement was used to create a form of concrete and was occasionally used
as mortar, as was simple mud. Exterior surfaces were faced with stucco
and decorated with high relief carvings or three-dimensional
sculpture. Walls might also have fine veneers of ashlar slabs placed
over a rubble core, a feature of buildings in the Puuc region.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 16:39

answered Sep 5 at 14:58

user151841

1,597214

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 16:39

edited Sep 5 at 16:39

edited Sep 5 at 16:39

answered Sep 5 at 14:58

user151841

1,597214

answered Sep 5 at 14:58

user151841

1,597214

answered Sep 5 at 14:58

user151841

1,597214

1,597214

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The premise of the question is that this stone is not practically available.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung depends on the definition of "practical". The stone for the pyramids were quarried from miles away and hauled over sand: "Granite for the King's Chamber in Khufu's pyramid was brought over more than 900km from Aswan and white limestone for the outer casing from Tura, a few kilometers south of Giza." cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-quarries.html
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:32
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "Miles away", not thousands of miles. And most of the transport distance was covered by barges on the Nile. And there's lots of available exposed structural stone near the Nile, whose lower lengths has a very long but relatively narrow flood plain, unlike the Amazon and the Mississippi. Please keep in mind that the unavailability of structural stone was the premise of the question. When answering questions you shouldn't violate the premise without very good reason, which doesn't exist here because what the OP is positing is perfectly reasonable.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:37
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung flag the answer. 900 km is ~ 600 miles. If you want the most impressive temple in the land, don't build it out of mud bricks like the local loser chiefs; conspicuously display your wealth with granite from thousands of miles away.
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:39
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The premise of the question is that this stone is not practically available.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:24
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung depends on the definition of "practical". The stone for the pyramids were quarried from miles away and hauled over sand: "Granite for the King's Chamber in Khufu's pyramid was brought over more than 900km from Aswan and white limestone for the outer casing from Tura, a few kilometers south of Giza." cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-quarries.html
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:32
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "Miles away", not thousands of miles. And most of the transport distance was covered by barges on the Nile. And there's lots of available exposed structural stone near the Nile, whose lower lengths has a very long but relatively narrow flood plain, unlike the Amazon and the Mississippi. Please keep in mind that the unavailability of structural stone was the premise of the question. When answering questions you shouldn't violate the premise without very good reason, which doesn't exist here because what the OP is positing is perfectly reasonable.
  – RBarryYoung
  Sep 6 at 13:37
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @RBarryYoung flag the answer. 900 km is ~ 600 miles. If you want the most impressive temple in the land, don't build it out of mud bricks like the local loser chiefs; conspicuously display your wealth with granite from thousands of miles away.
  – user151841
  Sep 6 at 13:39
  
  

  
  
  
  

The premise of the question is that this stone is not practically available.
– RBarryYoung
Sep 6 at 13:24

The premise of the question is that this stone is not practically available.
– RBarryYoung
Sep 6 at 13:24

2

2

@RBarryYoung depends on the definition of "practical". The stone for the pyramids were quarried from miles away and hauled over sand: "Granite for the King's Chamber in Khufu's pyramid was brought over more than 900km from Aswan and white limestone for the outer casing from Tura, a few kilometers south of Giza." cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-quarries.html
– user151841
Sep 6 at 13:32

@RBarryYoung depends on the definition of "practical". The stone for the pyramids were quarried from miles away and hauled over sand: "Granite for the King's Chamber in Khufu's pyramid was brought over more than 900km from Aswan and white limestone for the outer casing from Tura, a few kilometers south of Giza." cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-pyramid/stone-quarries.html
– user151841
Sep 6 at 13:32

1

1

"Miles away", not thousands of miles. And most of the transport distance was covered by barges on the Nile. And there's lots of available exposed structural stone near the Nile, whose lower lengths has a very long but relatively narrow flood plain, unlike the Amazon and the Mississippi. Please keep in mind that the unavailability of structural stone was the premise of the question. When answering questions you shouldn't violate the premise without very good reason, which doesn't exist here because what the OP is positing is perfectly reasonable.
– RBarryYoung
Sep 6 at 13:37

"Miles away", not thousands of miles. And most of the transport distance was covered by barges on the Nile. And there's lots of available exposed structural stone near the Nile, whose lower lengths has a very long but relatively narrow flood plain, unlike the Amazon and the Mississippi. Please keep in mind that the unavailability of structural stone was the premise of the question. When answering questions you shouldn't violate the premise without very good reason, which doesn't exist here because what the OP is positing is perfectly reasonable.
– RBarryYoung
Sep 6 at 13:37

2

2

@RBarryYoung flag the answer. 900 km is ~ 600 miles. If you want the most impressive temple in the land, don't build it out of mud bricks like the local loser chiefs; conspicuously display your wealth with granite from thousands of miles away.
– user151841
Sep 6 at 13:39

@RBarryYoung flag the answer. 900 km is ~ 600 miles. If you want the most impressive temple in the land, don't build it out of mud bricks like the local loser chiefs; conspicuously display your wealth with granite from thousands of miles away.
– user151841
Sep 6 at 13:39

add a comment | 

up vote
7
down vote

You can still use mud bricks but:

If you want to build something like this then the culture of the tribe will be built around it

The thing to remember with mud bricks is they are a semi-permanent building material, outside a desert they will wash away within a lifetime. A structure like the Great Mosque of Djenné requires annual maintenance involving the whole community to keep it standing. Without that it would not be many years before it all washed away.

But that's all part of the price to pay for using mud bricks, building a great structure like this from mud bricks is not a one off gathering of the tribe, but a repeating event as often as deemed necessary to maintain the structure. Maintaining the ziggurat is now a fundamental part of your culture.

Of course it's not going to be all that wet

While your culture may have grown out of the rainforest, by the time they're thinking of building this sort of structure they've already headed down the path to large scale land clearance. They already have a culture of building (semi)permanent mudbrick structures. They may even have started farming requiring even greater clearance of land. That clearance of the rainforest will decrease the annual rainfall significantly. If they're lucky that clearance will also give them access to the clay layer (if there is one) to make longer lasting baked clay bricks.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 14:32

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

Separatrix

67.7k30159264

add a comment | 

up vote
7
down vote

You can still use mud bricks but:

If you want to build something like this then the culture of the tribe will be built around it

The thing to remember with mud bricks is they are a semi-permanent building material, outside a desert they will wash away within a lifetime. A structure like the Great Mosque of Djenné requires annual maintenance involving the whole community to keep it standing. Without that it would not be many years before it all washed away.

But that's all part of the price to pay for using mud bricks, building a great structure like this from mud bricks is not a one off gathering of the tribe, but a repeating event as often as deemed necessary to maintain the structure. Maintaining the ziggurat is now a fundamental part of your culture.

Of course it's not going to be all that wet

While your culture may have grown out of the rainforest, by the time they're thinking of building this sort of structure they've already headed down the path to large scale land clearance. They already have a culture of building (semi)permanent mudbrick structures. They may even have started farming requiring even greater clearance of land. That clearance of the rainforest will decrease the annual rainfall significantly. If they're lucky that clearance will also give them access to the clay layer (if there is one) to make longer lasting baked clay bricks.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 14:32

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

Separatrix

67.7k30159264

add a comment | 

up vote
7
down vote

up vote
7
down vote

You can still use mud bricks but:

If you want to build something like this then the culture of the tribe will be built around it

The thing to remember with mud bricks is they are a semi-permanent building material, outside a desert they will wash away within a lifetime. A structure like the Great Mosque of Djenné requires annual maintenance involving the whole community to keep it standing. Without that it would not be many years before it all washed away.

But that's all part of the price to pay for using mud bricks, building a great structure like this from mud bricks is not a one off gathering of the tribe, but a repeating event as often as deemed necessary to maintain the structure. Maintaining the ziggurat is now a fundamental part of your culture.

Of course it's not going to be all that wet

While your culture may have grown out of the rainforest, by the time they're thinking of building this sort of structure they've already headed down the path to large scale land clearance. They already have a culture of building (semi)permanent mudbrick structures. They may even have started farming requiring even greater clearance of land. That clearance of the rainforest will decrease the annual rainfall significantly. If they're lucky that clearance will also give them access to the clay layer (if there is one) to make longer lasting baked clay bricks.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 14:32

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

Separatrix

67.7k30159264

You can still use mud bricks but:

If you want to build something like this then the culture of the tribe will be built around it

The thing to remember with mud bricks is they are a semi-permanent building material, outside a desert they will wash away within a lifetime. A structure like the Great Mosque of Djenné requires annual maintenance involving the whole community to keep it standing. Without that it would not be many years before it all washed away.

But that's all part of the price to pay for using mud bricks, building a great structure like this from mud bricks is not a one off gathering of the tribe, but a repeating event as often as deemed necessary to maintain the structure. Maintaining the ziggurat is now a fundamental part of your culture.

Of course it's not going to be all that wet

While your culture may have grown out of the rainforest, by the time they're thinking of building this sort of structure they've already headed down the path to large scale land clearance. They already have a culture of building (semi)permanent mudbrick structures. They may even have started farming requiring even greater clearance of land. That clearance of the rainforest will decrease the annual rainfall significantly. If they're lucky that clearance will also give them access to the clay layer (if there is one) to make longer lasting baked clay bricks.

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edited Sep 5 at 14:32

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

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share|improve this answer

edited Sep 5 at 14:32

edited Sep 5 at 14:32

edited Sep 5 at 14:32

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

Separatrix

67.7k30159264

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

Separatrix

67.7k30159264

answered Sep 5 at 12:45

Separatrix

67.7k30159264

67.7k30159264

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