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Is secondary stress important in German?
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Almost every German phonetic book points out the presence of the secondary stress, yet unlike English I do not see most dictionaries including Duden, PONS, Oxford, Larousse among many others refer to it in the phonetic writing. I can imagine that some syllables must have a secondary stress since they do not have a primary stress and can not be reduced to schwa as well as they are originally the main stems in other words. Examples:
Einteilung, Hochhaus, Autogeschäft, auswerfen etc.
Do the previous syllables in bold have secondary stress? Is secondary stress important in German in the first place? Why do not dictionaries mention it like English dictionaries do?
phonetics secondary-stress
asked Sep 6 at 13:56
Abdullah
570112
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Almost every German phonetic book points out the presence of the secondary stress, yet unlike English I do not see most dictionaries including Duden, PONS, Oxford, Larousse among many others refer to it in the phonetic writing. I can imagine that some syllables must have a secondary stress since they do not have a primary stress and can not be reduced to schwa as well as they are originally the main stems in other words. Examples:
Einteilung, Hochhaus, Autogeschäft, auswerfen etc.
Do the previous syllables in bold have secondary stress? Is secondary stress important in German in the first place? Why do not dictionaries mention it like English dictionaries do?
phonetics secondary-stress
asked Sep 6 at 13:56
Abdullah
570112
1
You should correct Autogeschäft to Autogeschäft since *ge is definitely the syllable with the least stress - Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2). Au is first, schäft is second. Similarly aus(1)-wer(2)-fen.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 16:44
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Almost every German phonetic book points out the presence of the secondary stress, yet unlike English I do not see most dictionaries including Duden, PONS, Oxford, Larousse among many others refer to it in the phonetic writing. I can imagine that some syllables must have a secondary stress since they do not have a primary stress and can not be reduced to schwa as well as they are originally the main stems in other words. Examples:
Einteilung, Hochhaus, Autogeschäft, auswerfen etc.
Do the previous syllables in bold have secondary stress? Is secondary stress important in German in the first place? Why do not dictionaries mention it like English dictionaries do?
phonetics secondary-stress
asked Sep 6 at 13:56
Abdullah
570112
Almost every German phonetic book points out the presence of the secondary stress, yet unlike English I do not see most dictionaries including Duden, PONS, Oxford, Larousse among many others refer to it in the phonetic writing. I can imagine that some syllables must have a secondary stress since they do not have a primary stress and can not be reduced to schwa as well as they are originally the main stems in other words. Examples:
Einteilung, Hochhaus, Autogeschäft, auswerfen etc.
Do the previous syllables in bold have secondary stress? Is secondary stress important in German in the first place? Why do not dictionaries mention it like English dictionaries do?
phonetics secondary-stress
asked Sep 6 at 13:56
Abdullah
570112
edited Sep 6 at 17:24
asked Sep 6 at 13:56
Abdullah
570112
asked Sep 6 at 13:56
Abdullah
570112
asked Sep 6 at 13:56
Abdullah
570112
570112
1
You should correct Autogeschäft to Autogeschäft since *ge is definitely the syllable with the least stress - Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2). Au is first, schäft is second. Similarly aus(1)-wer(2)-fen.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 16:44
add a comment |Â
1
You should correct Autogeschäft to Autogeschäft since *ge is definitely the syllable with the least stress - Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2). Au is first, schäft is second. Similarly aus(1)-wer(2)-fen.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 16:44
1
1
You should correct Autogeschäft to Autogeschäft since *ge is definitely the syllable with the least stress - Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2). Au is first, schäft is second. Similarly aus(1)-wer(2)-fen.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 16:44
You should correct Autogeschäft to Autogeschäft since *ge is definitely the syllable with the least stress - Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2). Au is first, schäft is second. Similarly aus(1)-wer(2)-fen.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 16:44
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
For me as a native speaker: yes, longer German words have syllables with secondary stress, and it is important to put the correct stress (pimary and secondary) on the right syllable.
Test:
Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2)
is correctly pronounced. Whereas
*Au(1)-to-ge(2)-schäft
is a technically possible way of pronouncing this word, but it is definitely wrong. It sounds as if the person speaking was from Russia or Hungary. (Both have their peculiar and separate problems with finding the correct syllables to stress in German.)
Similarly
Ein(1)-tei(2)-lung
is correct, whereas
*Ein(1)-tei-lung(2)
sounds completely idiotic, and I can even not imagine a native speaker of what language would be in danger of pronouncing it this way. If any, it would be something as far away as Mandarin.
You can do this test with every longer word: Rattenschwanz, Gebührenordnung, Feuerwehrleiter, Hundekacke, Kamelhaarjacke, Suppenschüssel, Oxymoron, Ausspracheregel, Poesiealbum, Onomatopoeie, Auspuffmuffe...
Later thoughts: is there a 'potential secondary stress'?
After some more in-depth discussion in the comments e.g. around words such as Stadtrundfahrt, as well as with respect Janka's separate answer, I would admit that it can justifiably be claimed that Stadtrundfahrt can also be seen as having one single syllable stress (*Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt), i.e. one can see the other syllables as equally unemphasised.
However, there seems to be at least a potential secondary stress bearing syllable; which becomes visible as soon as one tries to put a secondary stress on one of the remaining syllables. Put it on the wrong syllable, and you get a clear mistake: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2), whereas put on the correct syllable, everything sounds okay: *Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt.
Consequently I would instroduce here the term of a "crypto-secondary stress location", "hidden secondary stress location", or "potential secondary stress location".
answered Sep 6 at 16:48
Christian Geiselmann
16.1k1246
1
Both Stadt- and -rund- are prefixes. The stem is -fahrt.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:04
1
@Abdullah Correct distribution of stresses is Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt. - Probe: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2) would sound odd. I admit that this is a difficult case. Additional observation: Rundfahrt is correctly pronounced Rund(1)-fahrt, not Rund-fahrt(1).
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:05
1
@Janka I admit that it is also a viable argument to claim that Stadtrundfahrt has only primary stress, and no secundary. But if you want to place a secondary, it would be on rund.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:12
1
@Abdullah It was a good and well-put question.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:13
1
By the way, if you always stress the end the words, you'll sound Swiss.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:14
 |Â
show 15 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
Secondary stress is used on the stem if the primary stress is put on the prefix instead by purpose. For example, the natural pronounciations are:
'Teilung → 'Ein"teilung
'werfen → 'aus"werfen
It's pretty common to use stress to distinguish separable verbs from their inseparable counterparts:
fahren → 'um"fahren (Sie 'fuhr den Pylon 'um.)
fahren → um'fahren (Sie um'fuhr den Pylon.)
Your other two examples Hochhaus and Autogeschäft do not have "natural" secondary stress. Just don't put any stress on reduction syllables as -ge- in Autogeschäft. (You may of course apply your own stress pattern to point out parts of the word.)
answered Sep 6 at 16:50
Janka
23.4k21849
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
For me as a native speaker: yes, longer German words have syllables with secondary stress, and it is important to put the correct stress (pimary and secondary) on the right syllable.
Test:
Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2)
is correctly pronounced. Whereas
*Au(1)-to-ge(2)-schäft
is a technically possible way of pronouncing this word, but it is definitely wrong. It sounds as if the person speaking was from Russia or Hungary. (Both have their peculiar and separate problems with finding the correct syllables to stress in German.)
Similarly
Ein(1)-tei(2)-lung
is correct, whereas
*Ein(1)-tei-lung(2)
sounds completely idiotic, and I can even not imagine a native speaker of what language would be in danger of pronouncing it this way. If any, it would be something as far away as Mandarin.
You can do this test with every longer word: Rattenschwanz, Gebührenordnung, Feuerwehrleiter, Hundekacke, Kamelhaarjacke, Suppenschüssel, Oxymoron, Ausspracheregel, Poesiealbum, Onomatopoeie, Auspuffmuffe...
Later thoughts: is there a 'potential secondary stress'?
After some more in-depth discussion in the comments e.g. around words such as Stadtrundfahrt, as well as with respect Janka's separate answer, I would admit that it can justifiably be claimed that Stadtrundfahrt can also be seen as having one single syllable stress (*Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt), i.e. one can see the other syllables as equally unemphasised.
However, there seems to be at least a potential secondary stress bearing syllable; which becomes visible as soon as one tries to put a secondary stress on one of the remaining syllables. Put it on the wrong syllable, and you get a clear mistake: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2), whereas put on the correct syllable, everything sounds okay: *Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt.
Consequently I would instroduce here the term of a "crypto-secondary stress location", "hidden secondary stress location", or "potential secondary stress location".
answered Sep 6 at 16:48
Christian Geiselmann
16.1k1246
1
Both Stadt- and -rund- are prefixes. The stem is -fahrt.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:04
1
@Abdullah Correct distribution of stresses is Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt. - Probe: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2) would sound odd. I admit that this is a difficult case. Additional observation: Rundfahrt is correctly pronounced Rund(1)-fahrt, not Rund-fahrt(1).
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:05
1
@Janka I admit that it is also a viable argument to claim that Stadtrundfahrt has only primary stress, and no secundary. But if you want to place a secondary, it would be on rund.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:12
1
@Abdullah It was a good and well-put question.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:13
1
By the way, if you always stress the end the words, you'll sound Swiss.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:14
 |Â
show 15 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
For me as a native speaker: yes, longer German words have syllables with secondary stress, and it is important to put the correct stress (pimary and secondary) on the right syllable.
Test:
Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2)
is correctly pronounced. Whereas
*Au(1)-to-ge(2)-schäft
is a technically possible way of pronouncing this word, but it is definitely wrong. It sounds as if the person speaking was from Russia or Hungary. (Both have their peculiar and separate problems with finding the correct syllables to stress in German.)
Similarly
Ein(1)-tei(2)-lung
is correct, whereas
*Ein(1)-tei-lung(2)
sounds completely idiotic, and I can even not imagine a native speaker of what language would be in danger of pronouncing it this way. If any, it would be something as far away as Mandarin.
You can do this test with every longer word: Rattenschwanz, Gebührenordnung, Feuerwehrleiter, Hundekacke, Kamelhaarjacke, Suppenschüssel, Oxymoron, Ausspracheregel, Poesiealbum, Onomatopoeie, Auspuffmuffe...
Later thoughts: is there a 'potential secondary stress'?
After some more in-depth discussion in the comments e.g. around words such as Stadtrundfahrt, as well as with respect Janka's separate answer, I would admit that it can justifiably be claimed that Stadtrundfahrt can also be seen as having one single syllable stress (*Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt), i.e. one can see the other syllables as equally unemphasised.
However, there seems to be at least a potential secondary stress bearing syllable; which becomes visible as soon as one tries to put a secondary stress on one of the remaining syllables. Put it on the wrong syllable, and you get a clear mistake: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2), whereas put on the correct syllable, everything sounds okay: *Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt.
Consequently I would instroduce here the term of a "crypto-secondary stress location", "hidden secondary stress location", or "potential secondary stress location".
answered Sep 6 at 16:48
Christian Geiselmann
16.1k1246
1
Both Stadt- and -rund- are prefixes. The stem is -fahrt.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:04
1
@Abdullah Correct distribution of stresses is Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt. - Probe: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2) would sound odd. I admit that this is a difficult case. Additional observation: Rundfahrt is correctly pronounced Rund(1)-fahrt, not Rund-fahrt(1).
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:05
1
@Janka I admit that it is also a viable argument to claim that Stadtrundfahrt has only primary stress, and no secundary. But if you want to place a secondary, it would be on rund.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:12
1
@Abdullah It was a good and well-put question.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:13
1
By the way, if you always stress the end the words, you'll sound Swiss.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:14
 |Â
show 15 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
For me as a native speaker: yes, longer German words have syllables with secondary stress, and it is important to put the correct stress (pimary and secondary) on the right syllable.
Test:
Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2)
is correctly pronounced. Whereas
*Au(1)-to-ge(2)-schäft
is a technically possible way of pronouncing this word, but it is definitely wrong. It sounds as if the person speaking was from Russia or Hungary. (Both have their peculiar and separate problems with finding the correct syllables to stress in German.)
Similarly
Ein(1)-tei(2)-lung
is correct, whereas
*Ein(1)-tei-lung(2)
sounds completely idiotic, and I can even not imagine a native speaker of what language would be in danger of pronouncing it this way. If any, it would be something as far away as Mandarin.
You can do this test with every longer word: Rattenschwanz, Gebührenordnung, Feuerwehrleiter, Hundekacke, Kamelhaarjacke, Suppenschüssel, Oxymoron, Ausspracheregel, Poesiealbum, Onomatopoeie, Auspuffmuffe...
Later thoughts: is there a 'potential secondary stress'?
After some more in-depth discussion in the comments e.g. around words such as Stadtrundfahrt, as well as with respect Janka's separate answer, I would admit that it can justifiably be claimed that Stadtrundfahrt can also be seen as having one single syllable stress (*Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt), i.e. one can see the other syllables as equally unemphasised.
However, there seems to be at least a potential secondary stress bearing syllable; which becomes visible as soon as one tries to put a secondary stress on one of the remaining syllables. Put it on the wrong syllable, and you get a clear mistake: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2), whereas put on the correct syllable, everything sounds okay: *Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt.
Consequently I would instroduce here the term of a "crypto-secondary stress location", "hidden secondary stress location", or "potential secondary stress location".
answered Sep 6 at 16:48
Christian Geiselmann
16.1k1246
For me as a native speaker: yes, longer German words have syllables with secondary stress, and it is important to put the correct stress (pimary and secondary) on the right syllable.
Test:
Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2)
is correctly pronounced. Whereas
*Au(1)-to-ge(2)-schäft
is a technically possible way of pronouncing this word, but it is definitely wrong. It sounds as if the person speaking was from Russia or Hungary. (Both have their peculiar and separate problems with finding the correct syllables to stress in German.)
Similarly
Ein(1)-tei(2)-lung
is correct, whereas
*Ein(1)-tei-lung(2)
sounds completely idiotic, and I can even not imagine a native speaker of what language would be in danger of pronouncing it this way. If any, it would be something as far away as Mandarin.
You can do this test with every longer word: Rattenschwanz, Gebührenordnung, Feuerwehrleiter, Hundekacke, Kamelhaarjacke, Suppenschüssel, Oxymoron, Ausspracheregel, Poesiealbum, Onomatopoeie, Auspuffmuffe...
Later thoughts: is there a 'potential secondary stress'?
After some more in-depth discussion in the comments e.g. around words such as Stadtrundfahrt, as well as with respect Janka's separate answer, I would admit that it can justifiably be claimed that Stadtrundfahrt can also be seen as having one single syllable stress (*Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt), i.e. one can see the other syllables as equally unemphasised.
However, there seems to be at least a potential secondary stress bearing syllable; which becomes visible as soon as one tries to put a secondary stress on one of the remaining syllables. Put it on the wrong syllable, and you get a clear mistake: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2), whereas put on the correct syllable, everything sounds okay: *Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt.
Consequently I would instroduce here the term of a "crypto-secondary stress location", "hidden secondary stress location", or "potential secondary stress location".
answered Sep 6 at 16:48
Christian Geiselmann
16.1k1246
edited Sep 6 at 17:35
answered Sep 6 at 16:48
Christian Geiselmann
16.1k1246
answered Sep 6 at 16:48
Christian Geiselmann
16.1k1246
answered Sep 6 at 16:48
Christian Geiselmann
16.1k1246
16.1k1246
1
Both Stadt- and -rund- are prefixes. The stem is -fahrt.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:04
1
@Abdullah Correct distribution of stresses is Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt. - Probe: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2) would sound odd. I admit that this is a difficult case. Additional observation: Rundfahrt is correctly pronounced Rund(1)-fahrt, not Rund-fahrt(1).
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:05
1
@Janka I admit that it is also a viable argument to claim that Stadtrundfahrt has only primary stress, and no secundary. But if you want to place a secondary, it would be on rund.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:12
1
@Abdullah It was a good and well-put question.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:13
1
By the way, if you always stress the end the words, you'll sound Swiss.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:14
 |Â
show 15 more comments
1
Both Stadt- and -rund- are prefixes. The stem is -fahrt.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:04
1
@Abdullah Correct distribution of stresses is Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt. - Probe: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2) would sound odd. I admit that this is a difficult case. Additional observation: Rundfahrt is correctly pronounced Rund(1)-fahrt, not Rund-fahrt(1).
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:05
1
@Janka I admit that it is also a viable argument to claim that Stadtrundfahrt has only primary stress, and no secundary. But if you want to place a secondary, it would be on rund.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:12
1
@Abdullah It was a good and well-put question.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:13
1
By the way, if you always stress the end the words, you'll sound Swiss.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:14
1
1
Both Stadt- and -rund- are prefixes. The stem is -fahrt.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:04
Both Stadt- and -rund- are prefixes. The stem is -fahrt.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:04
1
1
@Abdullah Correct distribution of stresses is Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt. - Probe: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2) would sound odd. I admit that this is a difficult case. Additional observation: Rundfahrt is correctly pronounced Rund(1)-fahrt, not Rund-fahrt(1).
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:05
@Abdullah Correct distribution of stresses is Stadt(1)-rund(2)-fahrt. - Probe: Stadt(1)-rund-fahrt(2) would sound odd. I admit that this is a difficult case. Additional observation: Rundfahrt is correctly pronounced Rund(1)-fahrt, not Rund-fahrt(1).
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:05
1
1
@Janka I admit that it is also a viable argument to claim that Stadtrundfahrt has only primary stress, and no secundary. But if you want to place a secondary, it would be on rund.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:12
@Janka I admit that it is also a viable argument to claim that Stadtrundfahrt has only primary stress, and no secundary. But if you want to place a secondary, it would be on rund.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:12
1
1
@Abdullah It was a good and well-put question.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:13
@Abdullah It was a good and well-put question.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 17:13
1
1
By the way, if you always stress the end the words, you'll sound Swiss.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:14
By the way, if you always stress the end the words, you'll sound Swiss.
– Janka
Sep 6 at 17:14
 |Â
show 15 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
Secondary stress is used on the stem if the primary stress is put on the prefix instead by purpose. For example, the natural pronounciations are:
'Teilung → 'Ein"teilung
'werfen → 'aus"werfen
It's pretty common to use stress to distinguish separable verbs from their inseparable counterparts:
fahren → 'um"fahren (Sie 'fuhr den Pylon 'um.)
fahren → um'fahren (Sie um'fuhr den Pylon.)
Your other two examples Hochhaus and Autogeschäft do not have "natural" secondary stress. Just don't put any stress on reduction syllables as -ge- in Autogeschäft. (You may of course apply your own stress pattern to point out parts of the word.)
answered Sep 6 at 16:50
Janka
23.4k21849
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Secondary stress is used on the stem if the primary stress is put on the prefix instead by purpose. For example, the natural pronounciations are:
'Teilung → 'Ein"teilung
'werfen → 'aus"werfen
It's pretty common to use stress to distinguish separable verbs from their inseparable counterparts:
fahren → 'um"fahren (Sie 'fuhr den Pylon 'um.)
fahren → um'fahren (Sie um'fuhr den Pylon.)
Your other two examples Hochhaus and Autogeschäft do not have "natural" secondary stress. Just don't put any stress on reduction syllables as -ge- in Autogeschäft. (You may of course apply your own stress pattern to point out parts of the word.)
answered Sep 6 at 16:50
Janka
23.4k21849
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Secondary stress is used on the stem if the primary stress is put on the prefix instead by purpose. For example, the natural pronounciations are:
'Teilung → 'Ein"teilung
'werfen → 'aus"werfen
It's pretty common to use stress to distinguish separable verbs from their inseparable counterparts:
fahren → 'um"fahren (Sie 'fuhr den Pylon 'um.)
fahren → um'fahren (Sie um'fuhr den Pylon.)
Your other two examples Hochhaus and Autogeschäft do not have "natural" secondary stress. Just don't put any stress on reduction syllables as -ge- in Autogeschäft. (You may of course apply your own stress pattern to point out parts of the word.)
answered Sep 6 at 16:50
Janka
23.4k21849
Secondary stress is used on the stem if the primary stress is put on the prefix instead by purpose. For example, the natural pronounciations are:
'Teilung → 'Ein"teilung
'werfen → 'aus"werfen
It's pretty common to use stress to distinguish separable verbs from their inseparable counterparts:
fahren → 'um"fahren (Sie 'fuhr den Pylon 'um.)
fahren → um'fahren (Sie um'fuhr den Pylon.)
Your other two examples Hochhaus and Autogeschäft do not have "natural" secondary stress. Just don't put any stress on reduction syllables as -ge- in Autogeschäft. (You may of course apply your own stress pattern to point out parts of the word.)
answered Sep 6 at 16:50
Janka
23.4k21849
edited Sep 6 at 17:01
answered Sep 6 at 16:50
Janka
23.4k21849
answered Sep 6 at 16:50
Janka
23.4k21849
answered Sep 6 at 16:50
Janka
23.4k21849
23.4k21849
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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1
You should correct Autogeschäft to Autogeschäft since *ge is definitely the syllable with the least stress - Au(1)-to-ge-schäft(2). Au is first, schäft is second. Similarly aus(1)-wer(2)-fen.
– Christian Geiselmann
Sep 6 at 16:44