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How did the ancient Greeks synchronize time?
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How the time synchronization was achieved in ancient Greece? The context of this question is about Eratosthenes and his calculation of the size of the Earth based on Sun casting shadows with different length and angle in the same time in two cities ~500 miles apart.
ancient-history time-keeping greece
edited Sep 7 at 23:14
Glorfindel
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asked Sep 6 at 14:35
Didzis Lauva
18827
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show 4 more comments
up vote
36
down vote
favorite
How the time synchronization was achieved in ancient Greece? The context of this question is about Eratosthenes and his calculation of the size of the Earth based on Sun casting shadows with different length and angle in the same time in two cities ~500 miles apart.
ancient-history time-keeping greece
edited Sep 7 at 23:14
Glorfindel
2071210
asked Sep 6 at 14:35
Didzis Lauva
18827
New contributor
Didzis Lauva is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
41
Both measurements were taken at local noon - so no time synchronization was needed. It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference.
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:47
22
Eratosthenes was trying to calculate the circumference of the Earth, not to prove that Earth was round. And he did so by measuring the sun's angle of elevation at noon, which did not require time to be synchronised between Alexandria and Syene - in other words, the idea was that if the sun was at different angles between the two cities when at its highest, and earth is spherical, then he could work out how big the sphere had to be to give the difference in angle he observed.
– Semaphore♦
Sep 6 at 14:48
Thank you very much for clarifying details of this question and story! Nevertheless, circumference usually is used to describe round objects ;)
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 14:59
15
Every educated person of the day knew the earth was spherical. His innovation was to do the actual legwork to attempt to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 15:00
1
T.E.D. thank you for editing that part of the question.
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 15:05
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
36
down vote
favorite
up vote
36
down vote
favorite
How the time synchronization was achieved in ancient Greece? The context of this question is about Eratosthenes and his calculation of the size of the Earth based on Sun casting shadows with different length and angle in the same time in two cities ~500 miles apart.
ancient-history time-keeping greece
edited Sep 7 at 23:14
Glorfindel
2071210
asked Sep 6 at 14:35
Didzis Lauva
18827
New contributor
Didzis Lauva is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
How the time synchronization was achieved in ancient Greece? The context of this question is about Eratosthenes and his calculation of the size of the Earth based on Sun casting shadows with different length and angle in the same time in two cities ~500 miles apart.
ancient-history time-keeping greece
edited Sep 7 at 23:14
Glorfindel
2071210
asked Sep 6 at 14:35
Didzis Lauva
18827
New contributor
Didzis Lauva is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Sep 7 at 23:14
Glorfindel
2071210
edited Sep 7 at 23:14
Glorfindel
2071210
edited Sep 7 at 23:14
Glorfindel
2071210
2071210
asked Sep 6 at 14:35
Didzis Lauva
18827
New contributor
Didzis Lauva is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Sep 6 at 14:35
Didzis Lauva
18827
asked Sep 6 at 14:35
Didzis Lauva
18827
18827
New contributor
Didzis Lauva is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Didzis Lauva is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Didzis Lauva is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
41
Both measurements were taken at local noon - so no time synchronization was needed. It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference.
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:47
22
Eratosthenes was trying to calculate the circumference of the Earth, not to prove that Earth was round. And he did so by measuring the sun's angle of elevation at noon, which did not require time to be synchronised between Alexandria and Syene - in other words, the idea was that if the sun was at different angles between the two cities when at its highest, and earth is spherical, then he could work out how big the sphere had to be to give the difference in angle he observed.
– Semaphore♦
Sep 6 at 14:48
Thank you very much for clarifying details of this question and story! Nevertheless, circumference usually is used to describe round objects ;)
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 14:59
15
Every educated person of the day knew the earth was spherical. His innovation was to do the actual legwork to attempt to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 15:00
1
T.E.D. thank you for editing that part of the question.
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 15:05
 |Â
show 4 more comments
41
Both measurements were taken at local noon - so no time synchronization was needed. It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference.
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:47
22
Eratosthenes was trying to calculate the circumference of the Earth, not to prove that Earth was round. And he did so by measuring the sun's angle of elevation at noon, which did not require time to be synchronised between Alexandria and Syene - in other words, the idea was that if the sun was at different angles between the two cities when at its highest, and earth is spherical, then he could work out how big the sphere had to be to give the difference in angle he observed.
– Semaphore♦
Sep 6 at 14:48
Thank you very much for clarifying details of this question and story! Nevertheless, circumference usually is used to describe round objects ;)
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 14:59
15
Every educated person of the day knew the earth was spherical. His innovation was to do the actual legwork to attempt to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 15:00
1
T.E.D. thank you for editing that part of the question.
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 15:05
41
41
Both measurements were taken at local noon - so no time synchronization was needed. It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference.
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:47
Both measurements were taken at local noon - so no time synchronization was needed. It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference.
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:47
22
22
Eratosthenes was trying to calculate the circumference of the Earth, not to prove that Earth was round. And he did so by measuring the sun's angle of elevation at noon, which did not require time to be synchronised between Alexandria and Syene - in other words, the idea was that if the sun was at different angles between the two cities when at its highest, and earth is spherical, then he could work out how big the sphere had to be to give the difference in angle he observed.
– Semaphore♦
Sep 6 at 14:48
Eratosthenes was trying to calculate the circumference of the Earth, not to prove that Earth was round. And he did so by measuring the sun's angle of elevation at noon, which did not require time to be synchronised between Alexandria and Syene - in other words, the idea was that if the sun was at different angles between the two cities when at its highest, and earth is spherical, then he could work out how big the sphere had to be to give the difference in angle he observed.
– Semaphore♦
Sep 6 at 14:48
Thank you very much for clarifying details of this question and story! Nevertheless, circumference usually is used to describe round objects ;)
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 14:59
Thank you very much for clarifying details of this question and story! Nevertheless, circumference usually is used to describe round objects ;)
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 14:59
15
15
Every educated person of the day knew the earth was spherical. His innovation was to do the actual legwork to attempt to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 15:00
Every educated person of the day knew the earth was spherical. His innovation was to do the actual legwork to attempt to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 15:00
1
1
T.E.D. thank you for editing that part of the question.
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 15:05
T.E.D. thank you for editing that part of the question.
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 15:05
 |Â
show 4 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
73
down vote
accepted
In the particular case of Eratosthenes measuring the radius of the earth, it was done by observing the length of shadows at midday on the summer solstice, in cities that were north-south aligned (to within a few degrees). It was known that the sun was directly overhead on the solstice in the city of Syene in Egypt. But further north in Alexandria on the summer solstice the sun was not directly overhead.
So all he needed to do was identify which day the summer solstice fell on, which was a day that people had been able to determine since before recorded history it seems. Likewise recognising midday was no great difficulty.
You don't even need to do the measurements at the same time - you can do them on successive years if you want, and get the same result.
answered Sep 6 at 14:47
PhillS
2,14211117
9
Almost the perfect answer. I would add, in refutation of OP's claim, something to the effect that: "It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference and/or diameter."
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:49
2
Also worth noting that Eratosthenes couldn't really hope for anything like modern precision, and there's still some debate about how close he really got.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:53
6
@PieterGeerkens - Good point, I missed that in the question. Yes, he wasn't trying to prove anything about the shape of the Earth. Every educated person of the day (and likely most mariners) already knew it was spherical. He was taking that as a given, and trying to use math to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:55
1
@hao-sun yes, but the point is that you need to make the measurement at local noon in city A and local noon in city B, which is something that can be determined locally, without the need to synchronize anything.
– PhillS
10 hours ago
1
@HaoSun: Also the error by being off by a day is just under sin(1 degree) or roughly 1.7%
– Pieter Geerkens
10 hours ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
15
down vote
To add to the answer of PhillS: there was essentially no method of exact time synchronization in two remote places before 17th century. The method of observation at noon
at two places only works UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that the places are on the same longitude. The longitudes of Syene and Alexandria are approximately equal, which
Eratosthenes knew (when traveling from A to S one faces South, this was probably his justification). Of course this argument can be only approximate.
In fact the time synchronization in different places is EQUIVALENT to the problem of determining
longitude. The only general method that was available to the Greeks was observation of Lunar eclipses (which happen at the same time at different places). Except this method, which is also very rough and inconvenient, the general problem of finding longitude (=time synchronization) was not solved until 17 century when Jupiter satellites were discovered. And later, in 18th
century two methods were developed: a) very precise observation of the Moon position with respect to the stars, and b) mechanical chronometer.
answered Sep 6 at 19:04
Alex
24.7k14694
1
An excellent answer. But it should be Syene (Aswan, in Egypt), not Sienna (in Italy).
– fdb
Sep 8 at 12:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
As PhillS points out, the observations do not have to be made at the same time, but that flexibility is not limited to using observations on successive years, and, as Pieter Geerkens comments, observations at the local noon (either on the same day or the same date in different years of a solar-year calendar) are usable. In either case, however, what you do need is a reasonable measure of the north-south distance between the sites. In principle, this could be achieved by a combination of trigonometric surveying with astronomical measurements to establish the north-south direction. Both these techniques were well known to the ancient Egyptians, and it was the practice to re-survey Egypt annually, to re-establish boundaries after the floods [1], which gave Eratosthenes the distance, though he may have simply assumed that Syene was approximately due south of Alexandria.
Once you have a value for the circumference of the Earth, and assume it to be approximately spherical, you have sufficient information to determine the local-time offset between any locations linked by a reasonably accurate two-dimensioned survey, but the ancients did not really have any practical need for that information.
[1] - Ancient Surveying (Wikipedia)
answered Sep 8 at 14:20
A Raybould
112
New contributor
A Raybould is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
73
down vote
accepted
In the particular case of Eratosthenes measuring the radius of the earth, it was done by observing the length of shadows at midday on the summer solstice, in cities that were north-south aligned (to within a few degrees). It was known that the sun was directly overhead on the solstice in the city of Syene in Egypt. But further north in Alexandria on the summer solstice the sun was not directly overhead.
So all he needed to do was identify which day the summer solstice fell on, which was a day that people had been able to determine since before recorded history it seems. Likewise recognising midday was no great difficulty.
You don't even need to do the measurements at the same time - you can do them on successive years if you want, and get the same result.
answered Sep 6 at 14:47
PhillS
2,14211117
9
Almost the perfect answer. I would add, in refutation of OP's claim, something to the effect that: "It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference and/or diameter."
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:49
2
Also worth noting that Eratosthenes couldn't really hope for anything like modern precision, and there's still some debate about how close he really got.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:53
6
@PieterGeerkens - Good point, I missed that in the question. Yes, he wasn't trying to prove anything about the shape of the Earth. Every educated person of the day (and likely most mariners) already knew it was spherical. He was taking that as a given, and trying to use math to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:55
1
@hao-sun yes, but the point is that you need to make the measurement at local noon in city A and local noon in city B, which is something that can be determined locally, without the need to synchronize anything.
– PhillS
10 hours ago
1
@HaoSun: Also the error by being off by a day is just under sin(1 degree) or roughly 1.7%
– Pieter Geerkens
10 hours ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
73
down vote
accepted
In the particular case of Eratosthenes measuring the radius of the earth, it was done by observing the length of shadows at midday on the summer solstice, in cities that were north-south aligned (to within a few degrees). It was known that the sun was directly overhead on the solstice in the city of Syene in Egypt. But further north in Alexandria on the summer solstice the sun was not directly overhead.
So all he needed to do was identify which day the summer solstice fell on, which was a day that people had been able to determine since before recorded history it seems. Likewise recognising midday was no great difficulty.
You don't even need to do the measurements at the same time - you can do them on successive years if you want, and get the same result.
answered Sep 6 at 14:47
PhillS
2,14211117
9
Almost the perfect answer. I would add, in refutation of OP's claim, something to the effect that: "It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference and/or diameter."
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:49
2
Also worth noting that Eratosthenes couldn't really hope for anything like modern precision, and there's still some debate about how close he really got.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:53
6
@PieterGeerkens - Good point, I missed that in the question. Yes, he wasn't trying to prove anything about the shape of the Earth. Every educated person of the day (and likely most mariners) already knew it was spherical. He was taking that as a given, and trying to use math to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:55
1
@hao-sun yes, but the point is that you need to make the measurement at local noon in city A and local noon in city B, which is something that can be determined locally, without the need to synchronize anything.
– PhillS
10 hours ago
1
@HaoSun: Also the error by being off by a day is just under sin(1 degree) or roughly 1.7%
– Pieter Geerkens
10 hours ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
73
down vote
accepted
up vote
73
down vote
accepted
In the particular case of Eratosthenes measuring the radius of the earth, it was done by observing the length of shadows at midday on the summer solstice, in cities that were north-south aligned (to within a few degrees). It was known that the sun was directly overhead on the solstice in the city of Syene in Egypt. But further north in Alexandria on the summer solstice the sun was not directly overhead.
So all he needed to do was identify which day the summer solstice fell on, which was a day that people had been able to determine since before recorded history it seems. Likewise recognising midday was no great difficulty.
You don't even need to do the measurements at the same time - you can do them on successive years if you want, and get the same result.
answered Sep 6 at 14:47
PhillS
2,14211117
In the particular case of Eratosthenes measuring the radius of the earth, it was done by observing the length of shadows at midday on the summer solstice, in cities that were north-south aligned (to within a few degrees). It was known that the sun was directly overhead on the solstice in the city of Syene in Egypt. But further north in Alexandria on the summer solstice the sun was not directly overhead.
So all he needed to do was identify which day the summer solstice fell on, which was a day that people had been able to determine since before recorded history it seems. Likewise recognising midday was no great difficulty.
You don't even need to do the measurements at the same time - you can do them on successive years if you want, and get the same result.
answered Sep 6 at 14:47
PhillS
2,14211117
answered Sep 6 at 14:47
PhillS
2,14211117
answered Sep 6 at 14:47
PhillS
2,14211117
answered Sep 6 at 14:47
PhillS
2,14211117
2,14211117
9
Almost the perfect answer. I would add, in refutation of OP's claim, something to the effect that: "It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference and/or diameter."
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:49
2
Also worth noting that Eratosthenes couldn't really hope for anything like modern precision, and there's still some debate about how close he really got.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:53
6
@PieterGeerkens - Good point, I missed that in the question. Yes, he wasn't trying to prove anything about the shape of the Earth. Every educated person of the day (and likely most mariners) already knew it was spherical. He was taking that as a given, and trying to use math to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:55
1
@hao-sun yes, but the point is that you need to make the measurement at local noon in city A and local noon in city B, which is something that can be determined locally, without the need to synchronize anything.
– PhillS
10 hours ago
1
@HaoSun: Also the error by being off by a day is just under sin(1 degree) or roughly 1.7%
– Pieter Geerkens
10 hours ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
9
Almost the perfect answer. I would add, in refutation of OP's claim, something to the effect that: "It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference and/or diameter."
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:49
2
Also worth noting that Eratosthenes couldn't really hope for anything like modern precision, and there's still some debate about how close he really got.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:53
6
@PieterGeerkens - Good point, I missed that in the question. Yes, he wasn't trying to prove anything about the shape of the Earth. Every educated person of the day (and likely most mariners) already knew it was spherical. He was taking that as a given, and trying to use math to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:55
1
@hao-sun yes, but the point is that you need to make the measurement at local noon in city A and local noon in city B, which is something that can be determined locally, without the need to synchronize anything.
– PhillS
10 hours ago
1
@HaoSun: Also the error by being off by a day is just under sin(1 degree) or roughly 1.7%
– Pieter Geerkens
10 hours ago
9
9
Almost the perfect answer. I would add, in refutation of OP's claim, something to the effect that: "It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference and/or diameter."
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:49
Almost the perfect answer. I would add, in refutation of OP's claim, something to the effect that: "It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference and/or diameter."
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:49
2
2
Also worth noting that Eratosthenes couldn't really hope for anything like modern precision, and there's still some debate about how close he really got.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:53
Also worth noting that Eratosthenes couldn't really hope for anything like modern precision, and there's still some debate about how close he really got.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:53
6
6
@PieterGeerkens - Good point, I missed that in the question. Yes, he wasn't trying to prove anything about the shape of the Earth. Every educated person of the day (and likely most mariners) already knew it was spherical. He was taking that as a given, and trying to use math to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:55
@PieterGeerkens - Good point, I missed that in the question. Yes, he wasn't trying to prove anything about the shape of the Earth. Every educated person of the day (and likely most mariners) already knew it was spherical. He was taking that as a given, and trying to use math to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 14:55
1
1
@hao-sun yes, but the point is that you need to make the measurement at local noon in city A and local noon in city B, which is something that can be determined locally, without the need to synchronize anything.
– PhillS
10 hours ago
@hao-sun yes, but the point is that you need to make the measurement at local noon in city A and local noon in city B, which is something that can be determined locally, without the need to synchronize anything.
– PhillS
10 hours ago
1
1
@HaoSun: Also the error by being off by a day is just under sin(1 degree) or roughly 1.7%
– Pieter Geerkens
10 hours ago
@HaoSun: Also the error by being off by a day is just under sin(1 degree) or roughly 1.7%
– Pieter Geerkens
10 hours ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
15
down vote
To add to the answer of PhillS: there was essentially no method of exact time synchronization in two remote places before 17th century. The method of observation at noon
at two places only works UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that the places are on the same longitude. The longitudes of Syene and Alexandria are approximately equal, which
Eratosthenes knew (when traveling from A to S one faces South, this was probably his justification). Of course this argument can be only approximate.
In fact the time synchronization in different places is EQUIVALENT to the problem of determining
longitude. The only general method that was available to the Greeks was observation of Lunar eclipses (which happen at the same time at different places). Except this method, which is also very rough and inconvenient, the general problem of finding longitude (=time synchronization) was not solved until 17 century when Jupiter satellites were discovered. And later, in 18th
century two methods were developed: a) very precise observation of the Moon position with respect to the stars, and b) mechanical chronometer.
answered Sep 6 at 19:04
Alex
24.7k14694
1
An excellent answer. But it should be Syene (Aswan, in Egypt), not Sienna (in Italy).
– fdb
Sep 8 at 12:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
To add to the answer of PhillS: there was essentially no method of exact time synchronization in two remote places before 17th century. The method of observation at noon
at two places only works UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that the places are on the same longitude. The longitudes of Syene and Alexandria are approximately equal, which
Eratosthenes knew (when traveling from A to S one faces South, this was probably his justification). Of course this argument can be only approximate.
In fact the time synchronization in different places is EQUIVALENT to the problem of determining
longitude. The only general method that was available to the Greeks was observation of Lunar eclipses (which happen at the same time at different places). Except this method, which is also very rough and inconvenient, the general problem of finding longitude (=time synchronization) was not solved until 17 century when Jupiter satellites were discovered. And later, in 18th
century two methods were developed: a) very precise observation of the Moon position with respect to the stars, and b) mechanical chronometer.
answered Sep 6 at 19:04
Alex
24.7k14694
1
An excellent answer. But it should be Syene (Aswan, in Egypt), not Sienna (in Italy).
– fdb
Sep 8 at 12:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
up vote
15
down vote
To add to the answer of PhillS: there was essentially no method of exact time synchronization in two remote places before 17th century. The method of observation at noon
at two places only works UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that the places are on the same longitude. The longitudes of Syene and Alexandria are approximately equal, which
Eratosthenes knew (when traveling from A to S one faces South, this was probably his justification). Of course this argument can be only approximate.
In fact the time synchronization in different places is EQUIVALENT to the problem of determining
longitude. The only general method that was available to the Greeks was observation of Lunar eclipses (which happen at the same time at different places). Except this method, which is also very rough and inconvenient, the general problem of finding longitude (=time synchronization) was not solved until 17 century when Jupiter satellites were discovered. And later, in 18th
century two methods were developed: a) very precise observation of the Moon position with respect to the stars, and b) mechanical chronometer.
answered Sep 6 at 19:04
Alex
24.7k14694
To add to the answer of PhillS: there was essentially no method of exact time synchronization in two remote places before 17th century. The method of observation at noon
at two places only works UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that the places are on the same longitude. The longitudes of Syene and Alexandria are approximately equal, which
Eratosthenes knew (when traveling from A to S one faces South, this was probably his justification). Of course this argument can be only approximate.
In fact the time synchronization in different places is EQUIVALENT to the problem of determining
longitude. The only general method that was available to the Greeks was observation of Lunar eclipses (which happen at the same time at different places). Except this method, which is also very rough and inconvenient, the general problem of finding longitude (=time synchronization) was not solved until 17 century when Jupiter satellites were discovered. And later, in 18th
century two methods were developed: a) very precise observation of the Moon position with respect to the stars, and b) mechanical chronometer.
answered Sep 6 at 19:04
Alex
24.7k14694
edited Sep 8 at 14:20
answered Sep 6 at 19:04
Alex
24.7k14694
answered Sep 6 at 19:04
Alex
24.7k14694
answered Sep 6 at 19:04
Alex
24.7k14694
24.7k14694
1
An excellent answer. But it should be Syene (Aswan, in Egypt), not Sienna (in Italy).
– fdb
Sep 8 at 12:06
add a comment |Â
1
An excellent answer. But it should be Syene (Aswan, in Egypt), not Sienna (in Italy).
– fdb
Sep 8 at 12:06
1
1
An excellent answer. But it should be Syene (Aswan, in Egypt), not Sienna (in Italy).
– fdb
Sep 8 at 12:06
An excellent answer. But it should be Syene (Aswan, in Egypt), not Sienna (in Italy).
– fdb
Sep 8 at 12:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
As PhillS points out, the observations do not have to be made at the same time, but that flexibility is not limited to using observations on successive years, and, as Pieter Geerkens comments, observations at the local noon (either on the same day or the same date in different years of a solar-year calendar) are usable. In either case, however, what you do need is a reasonable measure of the north-south distance between the sites. In principle, this could be achieved by a combination of trigonometric surveying with astronomical measurements to establish the north-south direction. Both these techniques were well known to the ancient Egyptians, and it was the practice to re-survey Egypt annually, to re-establish boundaries after the floods [1], which gave Eratosthenes the distance, though he may have simply assumed that Syene was approximately due south of Alexandria.
Once you have a value for the circumference of the Earth, and assume it to be approximately spherical, you have sufficient information to determine the local-time offset between any locations linked by a reasonably accurate two-dimensioned survey, but the ancients did not really have any practical need for that information.
[1] - Ancient Surveying (Wikipedia)
answered Sep 8 at 14:20
A Raybould
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up vote
1
down vote
As PhillS points out, the observations do not have to be made at the same time, but that flexibility is not limited to using observations on successive years, and, as Pieter Geerkens comments, observations at the local noon (either on the same day or the same date in different years of a solar-year calendar) are usable. In either case, however, what you do need is a reasonable measure of the north-south distance between the sites. In principle, this could be achieved by a combination of trigonometric surveying with astronomical measurements to establish the north-south direction. Both these techniques were well known to the ancient Egyptians, and it was the practice to re-survey Egypt annually, to re-establish boundaries after the floods [1], which gave Eratosthenes the distance, though he may have simply assumed that Syene was approximately due south of Alexandria.
Once you have a value for the circumference of the Earth, and assume it to be approximately spherical, you have sufficient information to determine the local-time offset between any locations linked by a reasonably accurate two-dimensioned survey, but the ancients did not really have any practical need for that information.
[1] - Ancient Surveying (Wikipedia)
answered Sep 8 at 14:20
A Raybould
112
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A Raybould is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
As PhillS points out, the observations do not have to be made at the same time, but that flexibility is not limited to using observations on successive years, and, as Pieter Geerkens comments, observations at the local noon (either on the same day or the same date in different years of a solar-year calendar) are usable. In either case, however, what you do need is a reasonable measure of the north-south distance between the sites. In principle, this could be achieved by a combination of trigonometric surveying with astronomical measurements to establish the north-south direction. Both these techniques were well known to the ancient Egyptians, and it was the practice to re-survey Egypt annually, to re-establish boundaries after the floods [1], which gave Eratosthenes the distance, though he may have simply assumed that Syene was approximately due south of Alexandria.
Once you have a value for the circumference of the Earth, and assume it to be approximately spherical, you have sufficient information to determine the local-time offset between any locations linked by a reasonably accurate two-dimensioned survey, but the ancients did not really have any practical need for that information.
[1] - Ancient Surveying (Wikipedia)
answered Sep 8 at 14:20
A Raybould
112
New contributor
A Raybould is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
As PhillS points out, the observations do not have to be made at the same time, but that flexibility is not limited to using observations on successive years, and, as Pieter Geerkens comments, observations at the local noon (either on the same day or the same date in different years of a solar-year calendar) are usable. In either case, however, what you do need is a reasonable measure of the north-south distance between the sites. In principle, this could be achieved by a combination of trigonometric surveying with astronomical measurements to establish the north-south direction. Both these techniques were well known to the ancient Egyptians, and it was the practice to re-survey Egypt annually, to re-establish boundaries after the floods [1], which gave Eratosthenes the distance, though he may have simply assumed that Syene was approximately due south of Alexandria.
Once you have a value for the circumference of the Earth, and assume it to be approximately spherical, you have sufficient information to determine the local-time offset between any locations linked by a reasonably accurate two-dimensioned survey, but the ancients did not really have any practical need for that information.
[1] - Ancient Surveying (Wikipedia)
answered Sep 8 at 14:20
A Raybould
112
New contributor
A Raybould is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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edited 12 hours ago
answered Sep 8 at 14:20
A Raybould
112
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answered Sep 8 at 14:20
A Raybould
112
answered Sep 8 at 14:20
A Raybould
112
112
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A Raybould is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor
A Raybould is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
A Raybould is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Didzis Lauva is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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41
Both measurements were taken at local noon - so no time synchronization was needed. It wasn't a proof of the Earth being round, as that was already well established - it was a calculation of the Earth's circumference.
– Pieter Geerkens
Sep 6 at 14:47
22
Eratosthenes was trying to calculate the circumference of the Earth, not to prove that Earth was round. And he did so by measuring the sun's angle of elevation at noon, which did not require time to be synchronised between Alexandria and Syene - in other words, the idea was that if the sun was at different angles between the two cities when at its highest, and earth is spherical, then he could work out how big the sphere had to be to give the difference in angle he observed.
– Semaphore♦
Sep 6 at 14:48
Thank you very much for clarifying details of this question and story! Nevertheless, circumference usually is used to describe round objects ;)
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 14:59
15
Every educated person of the day knew the earth was spherical. His innovation was to do the actual legwork to attempt to calculate its size.
– T.E.D.♦
Sep 6 at 15:00
1
T.E.D. thank you for editing that part of the question.
– Didzis Lauva
Sep 6 at 15:05