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Was it Dumbledore's charm or Lily's that protected Harry all those years?
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I'm confused when reading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix because Dumbledore states that it was his charm that kept Harry safe while living at the Dursleys.
‘But I knew, too, where Voldemort was weak. And so I made my decision. You would be protected by an ancient magic of which he knows, which he despises, and which he has always, therefore, underestimated – to his cost. I am speaking, of course, of the fact that your mother died to save you. She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother’s blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative.’
‘She doesn’t love me,’ said Harry at once. ‘She doesn’t give a damn –’
‘But she took you,’ Dumbledore cut across him. ‘She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the charm I placed upon you. Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I could give you.’
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 37 "The Lost Prophecy"
So does this mean it was Dumbledore's doing that Harry was safe at his aunt's house? There Voldemort could never touch him. If Dumbledore had never made this ancient magic, Voldemort could have found him?
Lily's sacrifice made it impossible for Voldemort to physically touch Harry, but would that have been the limit to his protection if not for Dumbledore? Lily's sacrifice made it possible for Dumbledore to do this, but was it still down to him to create this magic of safety with Harry's relatives?
If Harry went to live with the Dursleys and had Dumbledore been gone or dead, or did not care enough to create the spell, would Harry still have been protected where his mother's blood dwells?
harry-potter albus-dumbledore lily-potter
edited Sep 7 at 10:57
TheLethalCarrot
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asked Sep 6 at 16:42
Flitoangel
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add a comment |Â
up vote
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I'm confused when reading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix because Dumbledore states that it was his charm that kept Harry safe while living at the Dursleys.
‘But I knew, too, where Voldemort was weak. And so I made my decision. You would be protected by an ancient magic of which he knows, which he despises, and which he has always, therefore, underestimated – to his cost. I am speaking, of course, of the fact that your mother died to save you. She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother’s blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative.’
‘She doesn’t love me,’ said Harry at once. ‘She doesn’t give a damn –’
‘But she took you,’ Dumbledore cut across him. ‘She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the charm I placed upon you. Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I could give you.’
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 37 "The Lost Prophecy"
So does this mean it was Dumbledore's doing that Harry was safe at his aunt's house? There Voldemort could never touch him. If Dumbledore had never made this ancient magic, Voldemort could have found him?
Lily's sacrifice made it impossible for Voldemort to physically touch Harry, but would that have been the limit to his protection if not for Dumbledore? Lily's sacrifice made it possible for Dumbledore to do this, but was it still down to him to create this magic of safety with Harry's relatives?
If Harry went to live with the Dursleys and had Dumbledore been gone or dead, or did not care enough to create the spell, would Harry still have been protected where his mother's blood dwells?
harry-potter albus-dumbledore lily-potter
edited Sep 7 at 10:57
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 6 at 16:42
Flitoangel
1,4121924
1
scifi.stackexchange.com/a/129381/23243 might be of interest to you.
– FuzzyBoots
Sep 6 at 17:09
2
I really like this question because it provides a bit of headcanon for me around how Harry didn't turn out to be evil despite the years of abuse he suffered at the hands of relatives. Magic! :D
– Wayne Werner
Sep 7 at 16:30
Thank you. Plus it expands on Lily's protection and how Dumbledore played a role, placing Harry in the care of his mother's relation. Not matter how cruel or horrible they were to Harry, that is where he had to be. He would be safe where the blood of his mother dwell's.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:35
@WayneWerner There's a fanfic about a more 'realistic' mind set for Harry to have after years of abuse - 'Brutal Harry'. It's honestly not bad, although still has the usual fanfic lack of polish and editing.
– Adonalsium
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
56
down vote
favorite
up vote
56
down vote
favorite
I'm confused when reading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix because Dumbledore states that it was his charm that kept Harry safe while living at the Dursleys.
‘But I knew, too, where Voldemort was weak. And so I made my decision. You would be protected by an ancient magic of which he knows, which he despises, and which he has always, therefore, underestimated – to his cost. I am speaking, of course, of the fact that your mother died to save you. She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother’s blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative.’
‘She doesn’t love me,’ said Harry at once. ‘She doesn’t give a damn –’
‘But she took you,’ Dumbledore cut across him. ‘She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the charm I placed upon you. Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I could give you.’
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 37 "The Lost Prophecy"
So does this mean it was Dumbledore's doing that Harry was safe at his aunt's house? There Voldemort could never touch him. If Dumbledore had never made this ancient magic, Voldemort could have found him?
Lily's sacrifice made it impossible for Voldemort to physically touch Harry, but would that have been the limit to his protection if not for Dumbledore? Lily's sacrifice made it possible for Dumbledore to do this, but was it still down to him to create this magic of safety with Harry's relatives?
If Harry went to live with the Dursleys and had Dumbledore been gone or dead, or did not care enough to create the spell, would Harry still have been protected where his mother's blood dwells?
harry-potter albus-dumbledore lily-potter
edited Sep 7 at 10:57
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 6 at 16:42
Flitoangel
1,4121924
I'm confused when reading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix because Dumbledore states that it was his charm that kept Harry safe while living at the Dursleys.
‘But I knew, too, where Voldemort was weak. And so I made my decision. You would be protected by an ancient magic of which he knows, which he despises, and which he has always, therefore, underestimated – to his cost. I am speaking, of course, of the fact that your mother died to save you. She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother’s blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative.’
‘She doesn’t love me,’ said Harry at once. ‘She doesn’t give a damn –’
‘But she took you,’ Dumbledore cut across him. ‘She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the charm I placed upon you. Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I could give you.’
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 37 "The Lost Prophecy"
So does this mean it was Dumbledore's doing that Harry was safe at his aunt's house? There Voldemort could never touch him. If Dumbledore had never made this ancient magic, Voldemort could have found him?
Lily's sacrifice made it impossible for Voldemort to physically touch Harry, but would that have been the limit to his protection if not for Dumbledore? Lily's sacrifice made it possible for Dumbledore to do this, but was it still down to him to create this magic of safety with Harry's relatives?
If Harry went to live with the Dursleys and had Dumbledore been gone or dead, or did not care enough to create the spell, would Harry still have been protected where his mother's blood dwells?
harry-potter albus-dumbledore lily-potter
edited Sep 7 at 10:57
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 6 at 16:42
Flitoangel
1,4121924
edited Sep 7 at 10:57
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
edited Sep 7 at 10:57
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
edited Sep 7 at 10:57
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 6 at 16:42
Flitoangel
1,4121924
asked Sep 6 at 16:42
Flitoangel
1,4121924
asked Sep 6 at 16:42
Flitoangel
1,4121924
1,4121924
1
scifi.stackexchange.com/a/129381/23243 might be of interest to you.
– FuzzyBoots
Sep 6 at 17:09
2
I really like this question because it provides a bit of headcanon for me around how Harry didn't turn out to be evil despite the years of abuse he suffered at the hands of relatives. Magic! :D
– Wayne Werner
Sep 7 at 16:30
Thank you. Plus it expands on Lily's protection and how Dumbledore played a role, placing Harry in the care of his mother's relation. Not matter how cruel or horrible they were to Harry, that is where he had to be. He would be safe where the blood of his mother dwell's.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:35
@WayneWerner There's a fanfic about a more 'realistic' mind set for Harry to have after years of abuse - 'Brutal Harry'. It's honestly not bad, although still has the usual fanfic lack of polish and editing.
– Adonalsium
yesterday
add a comment |Â
1
scifi.stackexchange.com/a/129381/23243 might be of interest to you.
– FuzzyBoots
Sep 6 at 17:09
2
I really like this question because it provides a bit of headcanon for me around how Harry didn't turn out to be evil despite the years of abuse he suffered at the hands of relatives. Magic! :D
– Wayne Werner
Sep 7 at 16:30
Thank you. Plus it expands on Lily's protection and how Dumbledore played a role, placing Harry in the care of his mother's relation. Not matter how cruel or horrible they were to Harry, that is where he had to be. He would be safe where the blood of his mother dwell's.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:35
@WayneWerner There's a fanfic about a more 'realistic' mind set for Harry to have after years of abuse - 'Brutal Harry'. It's honestly not bad, although still has the usual fanfic lack of polish and editing.
– Adonalsium
yesterday
1
1
scifi.stackexchange.com/a/129381/23243 might be of interest to you.
– FuzzyBoots
Sep 6 at 17:09
scifi.stackexchange.com/a/129381/23243 might be of interest to you.
– FuzzyBoots
Sep 6 at 17:09
2
2
I really like this question because it provides a bit of headcanon for me around how Harry didn't turn out to be evil despite the years of abuse he suffered at the hands of relatives. Magic! :D
– Wayne Werner
Sep 7 at 16:30
I really like this question because it provides a bit of headcanon for me around how Harry didn't turn out to be evil despite the years of abuse he suffered at the hands of relatives. Magic! :D
– Wayne Werner
Sep 7 at 16:30
Thank you. Plus it expands on Lily's protection and how Dumbledore played a role, placing Harry in the care of his mother's relation. Not matter how cruel or horrible they were to Harry, that is where he had to be. He would be safe where the blood of his mother dwell's.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:35
Thank you. Plus it expands on Lily's protection and how Dumbledore played a role, placing Harry in the care of his mother's relation. Not matter how cruel or horrible they were to Harry, that is where he had to be. He would be safe where the blood of his mother dwell's.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:35
@WayneWerner There's a fanfic about a more 'realistic' mind set for Harry to have after years of abuse - 'Brutal Harry'. It's honestly not bad, although still has the usual fanfic lack of polish and editing.
– Adonalsium
yesterday
@WayneWerner There's a fanfic about a more 'realistic' mind set for Harry to have after years of abuse - 'Brutal Harry'. It's honestly not bad, although still has the usual fanfic lack of polish and editing.
– Adonalsium
yesterday
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
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oldest
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up vote
41
down vote
accepted
It appears that there were two parts to the protection
From various sources throughout the books it becomes apparent that there were two separate aspects to the protection Harry had. The first was a more specific protection. This had nothing to do with Dumbledore, and was solely the result of Lilly's love. This specific protection prevented Voldemort's original curse from killing Harry, and it also prevented Quirrel from touching Harry. This aspect of the protection is dealt with in several places:
In the end of Philosopher's Stone Dumbledore partly explains the protection from Lilly's sacrifice:
“Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot
understand, it is love. He didn’t realize that love as powerful as
your mother’s for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible
sign ... to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who
loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your
very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his
soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was
agony to touch a person marked by something so good.â€Â
In the end of Chamber of Secrets Tom Riddle says the following:
“So. Your mother died to save you. Yes, that’s a powerful
counter-charm. I can see now ... there is nothing special about you,
after all.
In the graveyard in Goblet of Fire Voldemort says:
“His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice.
. . . This is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish
to overlook it . . . but no matter. I can touch him now.â€Â
Harry felt the cold tip of the long white finger touch him, and
thought his head would burst with the pain.
We see from the above quotes that the protection from Lilly's love was limited to two things: It blocked the original Killing Curse, and it prevented someone who "has no love" from physically touching Harry. And in fact once Voldemort came back and took some of Harry's blood, he apparently overcame this part of the protection. As Dumbledore himself noted on that occasion:
“Very well,†he said, sitting down again. “Voldemort has overcome
that particular barrier. Harry, continue, please.â€Â
The second aspect of the protection is more general. This part essentially made Harry's home a "safe zone". This protection was derived from Lilly's love, but was ultimately implemented by Dumbledore. What Dumbledore did was essentially broaden the love protection by broadening the love.
At the end of Order of the Phoenix Dumbledore explains how this worked:
“While you can still call home the place where your mother’s blood
dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed
her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became
your refuge. You need return there only once a year, but as long as
you can still call it home, there he cannot hurt you. Your aunt knows
this. I explained what I had done in the letter I left, with you, on
her doorstep. She knows that allowing you houseroom may well have
kept you alive for the past fifteen years.â€Â
As you note in the question, this is what Dumbledore said was his own implementation:
“She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly,
bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the
charm I placed upon you.
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I
could give you.â€Â
In the beginning of Half-Blood Prince Dumbledore explains this aspect of the protection to the Dursleys:
“The magic I evoked fifteen years ago means that Harry has powerful
protection while he can still call this house ‘home.’ However
miserable he has been here, however unwelcome, however badly treated,
you have at least, grudgingly, allowed him houseroom. This magic
will cease to operate the moment that Harry turns seventeen; in other
words, at the moment he becomes a man. I ask only this: that you
allow Harry to return, once more, to this house, before his
seventeenth birthday, which will ensure that the protection continues
until that time.â€Â
Thus, it seems clear from all the above quotes that Dumbledore implemented a magical protection in addition to the protection Harry already had from his mother's sacrifice. Dumbledore's protection was based on the original protection, and indeed could probably be termed an extension of the original protection.
It is interesting to note, though, that it is possible that other characters did not fully understand this distinction. In the beginning of Deathly Hallows there are several references to the protection of the Dursley home:
Moody dropped his sacks at his feet and turned to Harry. “As Dedalus
probably told you, we had to abandon Plan A. Pius Thicknesse has gone
over, which gives us a big problem. He’s made it an imprisonable
offense to connect this house to the Floo Network, place a Portkey
here, or Apparate in or out. All done in the name of your protection,
to prevent You-Know-Who getting in at you. Absolutely pointless,
seeing as your mother’s charm does that already. What he’s really
done is to stop you getting out of here safely.
“Now, your mother’s charm will only break under two conditions: when
you come of age, or†— Moody gestured around the pristine kitchen —
“you no longer call this place home. You and your aunt and uncle are
going your separate ways tonight, in the full understanding that
you’re never going to live together again, correct?â€Â
In these two quotes, Moody apparently conflates Lilly's protection with Dumbledore's protection. It is possible that Moody was not fully aware of the mechanism of the protection, it is possible that he was simply being imprecise in his speech, or it is possible that a minor authorial error crept in here.
answered Sep 6 at 21:40
Alex
5,03311438
3
+1 for the source references. I'd always assumed Dumbledore was just making Lily's protection last longer by optimizing the conditions it was operating in; I still think is the case actually, but you've made a good case for a 2nd magical act. So far as I can tell, Dumbledore didn't create/cast any additional magic (he says evoked, not created or cast), he just put existing magic into play and made sure the Dursleys did their part in enabling Lily's protection to last as long as possible.
– brichins
Sep 7 at 22:43
add a comment |Â
up vote
42
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Dumbledore’s charm is what protected Harry at the Dursleys’.
When explaining to the Death Eaters how he made a plan to capture Harry Potter, the Dark Lord says that Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic to ensure Harry was protected at the Dursleys’.
“For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care.â€Â
- Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Chapter 33 (The Death Eaters)
Dumbledore doing this is what ensured Harry’s protection while in the care of his relatives. If no one had done the charm he did to invoke the ancient magic, then Harry wouldn’t have any special protection at the Dursleys’ despite his mother sacrificing herself.
answered Sep 6 at 17:24
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
10
Based on this I think it's safe to speculate that the magic was there already, due to Lilly's sacrifice. Dumbledore simply used that magic to create the charm. Basically this "ancient magic" can be used to create a protection charm, but of course there's a prerequisite of the sacrifice before the charm can be created.
– Zip Zap J
Sep 6 at 17:32
13
@ZipZapJ Agreed - I don’t think Dumbledore could have done the charm without the sacrifice having happened first. However, the “ancient magic†wouldn’t have been activated in such a way as to create the protection charm if Dumbledore didn’t cast the necessary charm.
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 17:36
2
So there are at least two different pieces of ancient magic which protected Harry: the one which resulted in Voldemort's curse rebounding and prevented him from touching Harry, and the other which Dumbledore invoked, which somehow depended on the first one.
– Ruslan
Sep 6 at 18:17
@Ruslan Yes, that’s exactly right! :)
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 18:18
Perhaps I should ask this as another question, but one thing that has always bothered me is why Harry is so unique in being the only one to survive a killing curse. Surely there must be more than self-sacrifice required for that? Has nobody in the recorded history of magic ever sacrificed themselves for the sake of anyone else before?
– Muzer
Sep 6 at 22:04
 |Â
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11
down vote
Yes.
Short answer: both. Dumbledore's spell merely extended the protection that Lily's sacrifice gave him. Look closely at the very last sentence you quoted:
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I (Dumbledore) could give you.
So, Dumbledore was merely extending the protection that Lily's sacrifice enabled.
answered Sep 6 at 21:31
EJS
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No, there was only his mother's shield that was protecting him. J.K. Rowling used this in the question sense that it was such a strong shield that even Dumbledore cannot give that shield to anyone and could not break it.
edited Sep 7 at 5:15
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 7 at 5:03
Muhammad
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2
Do you have textual evidence for this?
– EJS
Sep 7 at 13:15
No right now but i will find some
– Muhammad
Sep 7 at 14:48
1
I don't understand your wording? Dumbledore did not try to break the charm. He only used it to enhance Harry's protection with a charm of his (Dumbledore's) own. It was a strong shield but Dumbledore advanced on it. And it could be broken. One way was when Harry became of age, that would break it. Another way to break it would be Harry going to live on his own or with someone other than the Dursleys.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:23
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
It appears that there were two parts to the protection
From various sources throughout the books it becomes apparent that there were two separate aspects to the protection Harry had. The first was a more specific protection. This had nothing to do with Dumbledore, and was solely the result of Lilly's love. This specific protection prevented Voldemort's original curse from killing Harry, and it also prevented Quirrel from touching Harry. This aspect of the protection is dealt with in several places:
In the end of Philosopher's Stone Dumbledore partly explains the protection from Lilly's sacrifice:
“Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot
understand, it is love. He didn’t realize that love as powerful as
your mother’s for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible
sign ... to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who
loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your
very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his
soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was
agony to touch a person marked by something so good.â€Â
In the end of Chamber of Secrets Tom Riddle says the following:
“So. Your mother died to save you. Yes, that’s a powerful
counter-charm. I can see now ... there is nothing special about you,
after all.
In the graveyard in Goblet of Fire Voldemort says:
“His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice.
. . . This is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish
to overlook it . . . but no matter. I can touch him now.â€Â
Harry felt the cold tip of the long white finger touch him, and
thought his head would burst with the pain.
We see from the above quotes that the protection from Lilly's love was limited to two things: It blocked the original Killing Curse, and it prevented someone who "has no love" from physically touching Harry. And in fact once Voldemort came back and took some of Harry's blood, he apparently overcame this part of the protection. As Dumbledore himself noted on that occasion:
“Very well,†he said, sitting down again. “Voldemort has overcome
that particular barrier. Harry, continue, please.â€Â
The second aspect of the protection is more general. This part essentially made Harry's home a "safe zone". This protection was derived from Lilly's love, but was ultimately implemented by Dumbledore. What Dumbledore did was essentially broaden the love protection by broadening the love.
At the end of Order of the Phoenix Dumbledore explains how this worked:
“While you can still call home the place where your mother’s blood
dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed
her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became
your refuge. You need return there only once a year, but as long as
you can still call it home, there he cannot hurt you. Your aunt knows
this. I explained what I had done in the letter I left, with you, on
her doorstep. She knows that allowing you houseroom may well have
kept you alive for the past fifteen years.â€Â
As you note in the question, this is what Dumbledore said was his own implementation:
“She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly,
bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the
charm I placed upon you.
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I
could give you.â€Â
In the beginning of Half-Blood Prince Dumbledore explains this aspect of the protection to the Dursleys:
“The magic I evoked fifteen years ago means that Harry has powerful
protection while he can still call this house ‘home.’ However
miserable he has been here, however unwelcome, however badly treated,
you have at least, grudgingly, allowed him houseroom. This magic
will cease to operate the moment that Harry turns seventeen; in other
words, at the moment he becomes a man. I ask only this: that you
allow Harry to return, once more, to this house, before his
seventeenth birthday, which will ensure that the protection continues
until that time.â€Â
Thus, it seems clear from all the above quotes that Dumbledore implemented a magical protection in addition to the protection Harry already had from his mother's sacrifice. Dumbledore's protection was based on the original protection, and indeed could probably be termed an extension of the original protection.
It is interesting to note, though, that it is possible that other characters did not fully understand this distinction. In the beginning of Deathly Hallows there are several references to the protection of the Dursley home:
Moody dropped his sacks at his feet and turned to Harry. “As Dedalus
probably told you, we had to abandon Plan A. Pius Thicknesse has gone
over, which gives us a big problem. He’s made it an imprisonable
offense to connect this house to the Floo Network, place a Portkey
here, or Apparate in or out. All done in the name of your protection,
to prevent You-Know-Who getting in at you. Absolutely pointless,
seeing as your mother’s charm does that already. What he’s really
done is to stop you getting out of here safely.
“Now, your mother’s charm will only break under two conditions: when
you come of age, or†— Moody gestured around the pristine kitchen —
“you no longer call this place home. You and your aunt and uncle are
going your separate ways tonight, in the full understanding that
you’re never going to live together again, correct?â€Â
In these two quotes, Moody apparently conflates Lilly's protection with Dumbledore's protection. It is possible that Moody was not fully aware of the mechanism of the protection, it is possible that he was simply being imprecise in his speech, or it is possible that a minor authorial error crept in here.
answered Sep 6 at 21:40
Alex
5,03311438
3
+1 for the source references. I'd always assumed Dumbledore was just making Lily's protection last longer by optimizing the conditions it was operating in; I still think is the case actually, but you've made a good case for a 2nd magical act. So far as I can tell, Dumbledore didn't create/cast any additional magic (he says evoked, not created or cast), he just put existing magic into play and made sure the Dursleys did their part in enabling Lily's protection to last as long as possible.
– brichins
Sep 7 at 22:43
add a comment |Â
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
It appears that there were two parts to the protection
From various sources throughout the books it becomes apparent that there were two separate aspects to the protection Harry had. The first was a more specific protection. This had nothing to do with Dumbledore, and was solely the result of Lilly's love. This specific protection prevented Voldemort's original curse from killing Harry, and it also prevented Quirrel from touching Harry. This aspect of the protection is dealt with in several places:
In the end of Philosopher's Stone Dumbledore partly explains the protection from Lilly's sacrifice:
“Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot
understand, it is love. He didn’t realize that love as powerful as
your mother’s for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible
sign ... to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who
loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your
very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his
soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was
agony to touch a person marked by something so good.â€Â
In the end of Chamber of Secrets Tom Riddle says the following:
“So. Your mother died to save you. Yes, that’s a powerful
counter-charm. I can see now ... there is nothing special about you,
after all.
In the graveyard in Goblet of Fire Voldemort says:
“His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice.
. . . This is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish
to overlook it . . . but no matter. I can touch him now.â€Â
Harry felt the cold tip of the long white finger touch him, and
thought his head would burst with the pain.
We see from the above quotes that the protection from Lilly's love was limited to two things: It blocked the original Killing Curse, and it prevented someone who "has no love" from physically touching Harry. And in fact once Voldemort came back and took some of Harry's blood, he apparently overcame this part of the protection. As Dumbledore himself noted on that occasion:
“Very well,†he said, sitting down again. “Voldemort has overcome
that particular barrier. Harry, continue, please.â€Â
The second aspect of the protection is more general. This part essentially made Harry's home a "safe zone". This protection was derived from Lilly's love, but was ultimately implemented by Dumbledore. What Dumbledore did was essentially broaden the love protection by broadening the love.
At the end of Order of the Phoenix Dumbledore explains how this worked:
“While you can still call home the place where your mother’s blood
dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed
her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became
your refuge. You need return there only once a year, but as long as
you can still call it home, there he cannot hurt you. Your aunt knows
this. I explained what I had done in the letter I left, with you, on
her doorstep. She knows that allowing you houseroom may well have
kept you alive for the past fifteen years.â€Â
As you note in the question, this is what Dumbledore said was his own implementation:
“She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly,
bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the
charm I placed upon you.
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I
could give you.â€Â
In the beginning of Half-Blood Prince Dumbledore explains this aspect of the protection to the Dursleys:
“The magic I evoked fifteen years ago means that Harry has powerful
protection while he can still call this house ‘home.’ However
miserable he has been here, however unwelcome, however badly treated,
you have at least, grudgingly, allowed him houseroom. This magic
will cease to operate the moment that Harry turns seventeen; in other
words, at the moment he becomes a man. I ask only this: that you
allow Harry to return, once more, to this house, before his
seventeenth birthday, which will ensure that the protection continues
until that time.â€Â
Thus, it seems clear from all the above quotes that Dumbledore implemented a magical protection in addition to the protection Harry already had from his mother's sacrifice. Dumbledore's protection was based on the original protection, and indeed could probably be termed an extension of the original protection.
It is interesting to note, though, that it is possible that other characters did not fully understand this distinction. In the beginning of Deathly Hallows there are several references to the protection of the Dursley home:
Moody dropped his sacks at his feet and turned to Harry. “As Dedalus
probably told you, we had to abandon Plan A. Pius Thicknesse has gone
over, which gives us a big problem. He’s made it an imprisonable
offense to connect this house to the Floo Network, place a Portkey
here, or Apparate in or out. All done in the name of your protection,
to prevent You-Know-Who getting in at you. Absolutely pointless,
seeing as your mother’s charm does that already. What he’s really
done is to stop you getting out of here safely.
“Now, your mother’s charm will only break under two conditions: when
you come of age, or†— Moody gestured around the pristine kitchen —
“you no longer call this place home. You and your aunt and uncle are
going your separate ways tonight, in the full understanding that
you’re never going to live together again, correct?â€Â
In these two quotes, Moody apparently conflates Lilly's protection with Dumbledore's protection. It is possible that Moody was not fully aware of the mechanism of the protection, it is possible that he was simply being imprecise in his speech, or it is possible that a minor authorial error crept in here.
answered Sep 6 at 21:40
Alex
5,03311438
3
+1 for the source references. I'd always assumed Dumbledore was just making Lily's protection last longer by optimizing the conditions it was operating in; I still think is the case actually, but you've made a good case for a 2nd magical act. So far as I can tell, Dumbledore didn't create/cast any additional magic (he says evoked, not created or cast), he just put existing magic into play and made sure the Dursleys did their part in enabling Lily's protection to last as long as possible.
– brichins
Sep 7 at 22:43
add a comment |Â
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
It appears that there were two parts to the protection
From various sources throughout the books it becomes apparent that there were two separate aspects to the protection Harry had. The first was a more specific protection. This had nothing to do with Dumbledore, and was solely the result of Lilly's love. This specific protection prevented Voldemort's original curse from killing Harry, and it also prevented Quirrel from touching Harry. This aspect of the protection is dealt with in several places:
In the end of Philosopher's Stone Dumbledore partly explains the protection from Lilly's sacrifice:
“Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot
understand, it is love. He didn’t realize that love as powerful as
your mother’s for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible
sign ... to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who
loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your
very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his
soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was
agony to touch a person marked by something so good.â€Â
In the end of Chamber of Secrets Tom Riddle says the following:
“So. Your mother died to save you. Yes, that’s a powerful
counter-charm. I can see now ... there is nothing special about you,
after all.
In the graveyard in Goblet of Fire Voldemort says:
“His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice.
. . . This is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish
to overlook it . . . but no matter. I can touch him now.â€Â
Harry felt the cold tip of the long white finger touch him, and
thought his head would burst with the pain.
We see from the above quotes that the protection from Lilly's love was limited to two things: It blocked the original Killing Curse, and it prevented someone who "has no love" from physically touching Harry. And in fact once Voldemort came back and took some of Harry's blood, he apparently overcame this part of the protection. As Dumbledore himself noted on that occasion:
“Very well,†he said, sitting down again. “Voldemort has overcome
that particular barrier. Harry, continue, please.â€Â
The second aspect of the protection is more general. This part essentially made Harry's home a "safe zone". This protection was derived from Lilly's love, but was ultimately implemented by Dumbledore. What Dumbledore did was essentially broaden the love protection by broadening the love.
At the end of Order of the Phoenix Dumbledore explains how this worked:
“While you can still call home the place where your mother’s blood
dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed
her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became
your refuge. You need return there only once a year, but as long as
you can still call it home, there he cannot hurt you. Your aunt knows
this. I explained what I had done in the letter I left, with you, on
her doorstep. She knows that allowing you houseroom may well have
kept you alive for the past fifteen years.â€Â
As you note in the question, this is what Dumbledore said was his own implementation:
“She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly,
bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the
charm I placed upon you.
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I
could give you.â€Â
In the beginning of Half-Blood Prince Dumbledore explains this aspect of the protection to the Dursleys:
“The magic I evoked fifteen years ago means that Harry has powerful
protection while he can still call this house ‘home.’ However
miserable he has been here, however unwelcome, however badly treated,
you have at least, grudgingly, allowed him houseroom. This magic
will cease to operate the moment that Harry turns seventeen; in other
words, at the moment he becomes a man. I ask only this: that you
allow Harry to return, once more, to this house, before his
seventeenth birthday, which will ensure that the protection continues
until that time.â€Â
Thus, it seems clear from all the above quotes that Dumbledore implemented a magical protection in addition to the protection Harry already had from his mother's sacrifice. Dumbledore's protection was based on the original protection, and indeed could probably be termed an extension of the original protection.
It is interesting to note, though, that it is possible that other characters did not fully understand this distinction. In the beginning of Deathly Hallows there are several references to the protection of the Dursley home:
Moody dropped his sacks at his feet and turned to Harry. “As Dedalus
probably told you, we had to abandon Plan A. Pius Thicknesse has gone
over, which gives us a big problem. He’s made it an imprisonable
offense to connect this house to the Floo Network, place a Portkey
here, or Apparate in or out. All done in the name of your protection,
to prevent You-Know-Who getting in at you. Absolutely pointless,
seeing as your mother’s charm does that already. What he’s really
done is to stop you getting out of here safely.
“Now, your mother’s charm will only break under two conditions: when
you come of age, or†— Moody gestured around the pristine kitchen —
“you no longer call this place home. You and your aunt and uncle are
going your separate ways tonight, in the full understanding that
you’re never going to live together again, correct?â€Â
In these two quotes, Moody apparently conflates Lilly's protection with Dumbledore's protection. It is possible that Moody was not fully aware of the mechanism of the protection, it is possible that he was simply being imprecise in his speech, or it is possible that a minor authorial error crept in here.
answered Sep 6 at 21:40
Alex
5,03311438
It appears that there were two parts to the protection
From various sources throughout the books it becomes apparent that there were two separate aspects to the protection Harry had. The first was a more specific protection. This had nothing to do with Dumbledore, and was solely the result of Lilly's love. This specific protection prevented Voldemort's original curse from killing Harry, and it also prevented Quirrel from touching Harry. This aspect of the protection is dealt with in several places:
In the end of Philosopher's Stone Dumbledore partly explains the protection from Lilly's sacrifice:
“Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot
understand, it is love. He didn’t realize that love as powerful as
your mother’s for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible
sign ... to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who
loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your
very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his
soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was
agony to touch a person marked by something so good.â€Â
In the end of Chamber of Secrets Tom Riddle says the following:
“So. Your mother died to save you. Yes, that’s a powerful
counter-charm. I can see now ... there is nothing special about you,
after all.
In the graveyard in Goblet of Fire Voldemort says:
“His mother left upon him the traces of her sacrifice.
. . . This is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish
to overlook it . . . but no matter. I can touch him now.â€Â
Harry felt the cold tip of the long white finger touch him, and
thought his head would burst with the pain.
We see from the above quotes that the protection from Lilly's love was limited to two things: It blocked the original Killing Curse, and it prevented someone who "has no love" from physically touching Harry. And in fact once Voldemort came back and took some of Harry's blood, he apparently overcame this part of the protection. As Dumbledore himself noted on that occasion:
“Very well,†he said, sitting down again. “Voldemort has overcome
that particular barrier. Harry, continue, please.â€Â
The second aspect of the protection is more general. This part essentially made Harry's home a "safe zone". This protection was derived from Lilly's love, but was ultimately implemented by Dumbledore. What Dumbledore did was essentially broaden the love protection by broadening the love.
At the end of Order of the Phoenix Dumbledore explains how this worked:
“While you can still call home the place where your mother’s blood
dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed
her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became
your refuge. You need return there only once a year, but as long as
you can still call it home, there he cannot hurt you. Your aunt knows
this. I explained what I had done in the letter I left, with you, on
her doorstep. She knows that allowing you houseroom may well have
kept you alive for the past fifteen years.â€Â
As you note in the question, this is what Dumbledore said was his own implementation:
“She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly,
bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the
charm I placed upon you.
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I
could give you.â€Â
In the beginning of Half-Blood Prince Dumbledore explains this aspect of the protection to the Dursleys:
“The magic I evoked fifteen years ago means that Harry has powerful
protection while he can still call this house ‘home.’ However
miserable he has been here, however unwelcome, however badly treated,
you have at least, grudgingly, allowed him houseroom. This magic
will cease to operate the moment that Harry turns seventeen; in other
words, at the moment he becomes a man. I ask only this: that you
allow Harry to return, once more, to this house, before his
seventeenth birthday, which will ensure that the protection continues
until that time.â€Â
Thus, it seems clear from all the above quotes that Dumbledore implemented a magical protection in addition to the protection Harry already had from his mother's sacrifice. Dumbledore's protection was based on the original protection, and indeed could probably be termed an extension of the original protection.
It is interesting to note, though, that it is possible that other characters did not fully understand this distinction. In the beginning of Deathly Hallows there are several references to the protection of the Dursley home:
Moody dropped his sacks at his feet and turned to Harry. “As Dedalus
probably told you, we had to abandon Plan A. Pius Thicknesse has gone
over, which gives us a big problem. He’s made it an imprisonable
offense to connect this house to the Floo Network, place a Portkey
here, or Apparate in or out. All done in the name of your protection,
to prevent You-Know-Who getting in at you. Absolutely pointless,
seeing as your mother’s charm does that already. What he’s really
done is to stop you getting out of here safely.
“Now, your mother’s charm will only break under two conditions: when
you come of age, or†— Moody gestured around the pristine kitchen —
“you no longer call this place home. You and your aunt and uncle are
going your separate ways tonight, in the full understanding that
you’re never going to live together again, correct?â€Â
In these two quotes, Moody apparently conflates Lilly's protection with Dumbledore's protection. It is possible that Moody was not fully aware of the mechanism of the protection, it is possible that he was simply being imprecise in his speech, or it is possible that a minor authorial error crept in here.
answered Sep 6 at 21:40
Alex
5,03311438
edited Sep 7 at 0:14
answered Sep 6 at 21:40
Alex
5,03311438
answered Sep 6 at 21:40
Alex
5,03311438
answered Sep 6 at 21:40
Alex
5,03311438
5,03311438
3
+1 for the source references. I'd always assumed Dumbledore was just making Lily's protection last longer by optimizing the conditions it was operating in; I still think is the case actually, but you've made a good case for a 2nd magical act. So far as I can tell, Dumbledore didn't create/cast any additional magic (he says evoked, not created or cast), he just put existing magic into play and made sure the Dursleys did their part in enabling Lily's protection to last as long as possible.
– brichins
Sep 7 at 22:43
add a comment |Â
3
+1 for the source references. I'd always assumed Dumbledore was just making Lily's protection last longer by optimizing the conditions it was operating in; I still think is the case actually, but you've made a good case for a 2nd magical act. So far as I can tell, Dumbledore didn't create/cast any additional magic (he says evoked, not created or cast), he just put existing magic into play and made sure the Dursleys did their part in enabling Lily's protection to last as long as possible.
– brichins
Sep 7 at 22:43
3
3
+1 for the source references. I'd always assumed Dumbledore was just making Lily's protection last longer by optimizing the conditions it was operating in; I still think is the case actually, but you've made a good case for a 2nd magical act. So far as I can tell, Dumbledore didn't create/cast any additional magic (he says evoked, not created or cast), he just put existing magic into play and made sure the Dursleys did their part in enabling Lily's protection to last as long as possible.
– brichins
Sep 7 at 22:43
+1 for the source references. I'd always assumed Dumbledore was just making Lily's protection last longer by optimizing the conditions it was operating in; I still think is the case actually, but you've made a good case for a 2nd magical act. So far as I can tell, Dumbledore didn't create/cast any additional magic (he says evoked, not created or cast), he just put existing magic into play and made sure the Dursleys did their part in enabling Lily's protection to last as long as possible.
– brichins
Sep 7 at 22:43
add a comment |Â
up vote
42
down vote
Dumbledore’s charm is what protected Harry at the Dursleys’.
When explaining to the Death Eaters how he made a plan to capture Harry Potter, the Dark Lord says that Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic to ensure Harry was protected at the Dursleys’.
“For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care.â€Â
- Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Chapter 33 (The Death Eaters)
Dumbledore doing this is what ensured Harry’s protection while in the care of his relatives. If no one had done the charm he did to invoke the ancient magic, then Harry wouldn’t have any special protection at the Dursleys’ despite his mother sacrificing herself.
answered Sep 6 at 17:24
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
10
Based on this I think it's safe to speculate that the magic was there already, due to Lilly's sacrifice. Dumbledore simply used that magic to create the charm. Basically this "ancient magic" can be used to create a protection charm, but of course there's a prerequisite of the sacrifice before the charm can be created.
– Zip Zap J
Sep 6 at 17:32
13
@ZipZapJ Agreed - I don’t think Dumbledore could have done the charm without the sacrifice having happened first. However, the “ancient magic†wouldn’t have been activated in such a way as to create the protection charm if Dumbledore didn’t cast the necessary charm.
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 17:36
2
So there are at least two different pieces of ancient magic which protected Harry: the one which resulted in Voldemort's curse rebounding and prevented him from touching Harry, and the other which Dumbledore invoked, which somehow depended on the first one.
– Ruslan
Sep 6 at 18:17
@Ruslan Yes, that’s exactly right! :)
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 18:18
Perhaps I should ask this as another question, but one thing that has always bothered me is why Harry is so unique in being the only one to survive a killing curse. Surely there must be more than self-sacrifice required for that? Has nobody in the recorded history of magic ever sacrificed themselves for the sake of anyone else before?
– Muzer
Sep 6 at 22:04
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
42
down vote
Dumbledore’s charm is what protected Harry at the Dursleys’.
When explaining to the Death Eaters how he made a plan to capture Harry Potter, the Dark Lord says that Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic to ensure Harry was protected at the Dursleys’.
“For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care.â€Â
- Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Chapter 33 (The Death Eaters)
Dumbledore doing this is what ensured Harry’s protection while in the care of his relatives. If no one had done the charm he did to invoke the ancient magic, then Harry wouldn’t have any special protection at the Dursleys’ despite his mother sacrificing herself.
answered Sep 6 at 17:24
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
10
Based on this I think it's safe to speculate that the magic was there already, due to Lilly's sacrifice. Dumbledore simply used that magic to create the charm. Basically this "ancient magic" can be used to create a protection charm, but of course there's a prerequisite of the sacrifice before the charm can be created.
– Zip Zap J
Sep 6 at 17:32
13
@ZipZapJ Agreed - I don’t think Dumbledore could have done the charm without the sacrifice having happened first. However, the “ancient magic†wouldn’t have been activated in such a way as to create the protection charm if Dumbledore didn’t cast the necessary charm.
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 17:36
2
So there are at least two different pieces of ancient magic which protected Harry: the one which resulted in Voldemort's curse rebounding and prevented him from touching Harry, and the other which Dumbledore invoked, which somehow depended on the first one.
– Ruslan
Sep 6 at 18:17
@Ruslan Yes, that’s exactly right! :)
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 18:18
Perhaps I should ask this as another question, but one thing that has always bothered me is why Harry is so unique in being the only one to survive a killing curse. Surely there must be more than self-sacrifice required for that? Has nobody in the recorded history of magic ever sacrificed themselves for the sake of anyone else before?
– Muzer
Sep 6 at 22:04
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
42
down vote
up vote
42
down vote
Dumbledore’s charm is what protected Harry at the Dursleys’.
When explaining to the Death Eaters how he made a plan to capture Harry Potter, the Dark Lord says that Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic to ensure Harry was protected at the Dursleys’.
“For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care.â€Â
- Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Chapter 33 (The Death Eaters)
Dumbledore doing this is what ensured Harry’s protection while in the care of his relatives. If no one had done the charm he did to invoke the ancient magic, then Harry wouldn’t have any special protection at the Dursleys’ despite his mother sacrificing herself.
answered Sep 6 at 17:24
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
Dumbledore’s charm is what protected Harry at the Dursleys’.
When explaining to the Death Eaters how he made a plan to capture Harry Potter, the Dark Lord says that Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic to ensure Harry was protected at the Dursleys’.
“For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care.â€Â
- Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Chapter 33 (The Death Eaters)
Dumbledore doing this is what ensured Harry’s protection while in the care of his relatives. If no one had done the charm he did to invoke the ancient magic, then Harry wouldn’t have any special protection at the Dursleys’ despite his mother sacrificing herself.
answered Sep 6 at 17:24
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 6 at 17:24
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 6 at 17:24
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 6 at 17:24
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
55.1k11255290
10
Based on this I think it's safe to speculate that the magic was there already, due to Lilly's sacrifice. Dumbledore simply used that magic to create the charm. Basically this "ancient magic" can be used to create a protection charm, but of course there's a prerequisite of the sacrifice before the charm can be created.
– Zip Zap J
Sep 6 at 17:32
13
@ZipZapJ Agreed - I don’t think Dumbledore could have done the charm without the sacrifice having happened first. However, the “ancient magic†wouldn’t have been activated in such a way as to create the protection charm if Dumbledore didn’t cast the necessary charm.
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 17:36
2
So there are at least two different pieces of ancient magic which protected Harry: the one which resulted in Voldemort's curse rebounding and prevented him from touching Harry, and the other which Dumbledore invoked, which somehow depended on the first one.
– Ruslan
Sep 6 at 18:17
@Ruslan Yes, that’s exactly right! :)
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 18:18
Perhaps I should ask this as another question, but one thing that has always bothered me is why Harry is so unique in being the only one to survive a killing curse. Surely there must be more than self-sacrifice required for that? Has nobody in the recorded history of magic ever sacrificed themselves for the sake of anyone else before?
– Muzer
Sep 6 at 22:04
 |Â
show 3 more comments
10
Based on this I think it's safe to speculate that the magic was there already, due to Lilly's sacrifice. Dumbledore simply used that magic to create the charm. Basically this "ancient magic" can be used to create a protection charm, but of course there's a prerequisite of the sacrifice before the charm can be created.
– Zip Zap J
Sep 6 at 17:32
13
@ZipZapJ Agreed - I don’t think Dumbledore could have done the charm without the sacrifice having happened first. However, the “ancient magic†wouldn’t have been activated in such a way as to create the protection charm if Dumbledore didn’t cast the necessary charm.
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 17:36
2
So there are at least two different pieces of ancient magic which protected Harry: the one which resulted in Voldemort's curse rebounding and prevented him from touching Harry, and the other which Dumbledore invoked, which somehow depended on the first one.
– Ruslan
Sep 6 at 18:17
@Ruslan Yes, that’s exactly right! :)
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 18:18
Perhaps I should ask this as another question, but one thing that has always bothered me is why Harry is so unique in being the only one to survive a killing curse. Surely there must be more than self-sacrifice required for that? Has nobody in the recorded history of magic ever sacrificed themselves for the sake of anyone else before?
– Muzer
Sep 6 at 22:04
10
10
Based on this I think it's safe to speculate that the magic was there already, due to Lilly's sacrifice. Dumbledore simply used that magic to create the charm. Basically this "ancient magic" can be used to create a protection charm, but of course there's a prerequisite of the sacrifice before the charm can be created.
– Zip Zap J
Sep 6 at 17:32
Based on this I think it's safe to speculate that the magic was there already, due to Lilly's sacrifice. Dumbledore simply used that magic to create the charm. Basically this "ancient magic" can be used to create a protection charm, but of course there's a prerequisite of the sacrifice before the charm can be created.
– Zip Zap J
Sep 6 at 17:32
13
13
@ZipZapJ Agreed - I don’t think Dumbledore could have done the charm without the sacrifice having happened first. However, the “ancient magic†wouldn’t have been activated in such a way as to create the protection charm if Dumbledore didn’t cast the necessary charm.
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 17:36
@ZipZapJ Agreed - I don’t think Dumbledore could have done the charm without the sacrifice having happened first. However, the “ancient magic†wouldn’t have been activated in such a way as to create the protection charm if Dumbledore didn’t cast the necessary charm.
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 17:36
2
2
So there are at least two different pieces of ancient magic which protected Harry: the one which resulted in Voldemort's curse rebounding and prevented him from touching Harry, and the other which Dumbledore invoked, which somehow depended on the first one.
– Ruslan
Sep 6 at 18:17
So there are at least two different pieces of ancient magic which protected Harry: the one which resulted in Voldemort's curse rebounding and prevented him from touching Harry, and the other which Dumbledore invoked, which somehow depended on the first one.
– Ruslan
Sep 6 at 18:17
@Ruslan Yes, that’s exactly right! :)
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 18:18
@Ruslan Yes, that’s exactly right! :)
– Bellatrix
Sep 6 at 18:18
Perhaps I should ask this as another question, but one thing that has always bothered me is why Harry is so unique in being the only one to survive a killing curse. Surely there must be more than self-sacrifice required for that? Has nobody in the recorded history of magic ever sacrificed themselves for the sake of anyone else before?
– Muzer
Sep 6 at 22:04
Perhaps I should ask this as another question, but one thing that has always bothered me is why Harry is so unique in being the only one to survive a killing curse. Surely there must be more than self-sacrifice required for that? Has nobody in the recorded history of magic ever sacrificed themselves for the sake of anyone else before?
– Muzer
Sep 6 at 22:04
 |Â
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up vote
11
down vote
Yes.
Short answer: both. Dumbledore's spell merely extended the protection that Lily's sacrifice gave him. Look closely at the very last sentence you quoted:
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I (Dumbledore) could give you.
So, Dumbledore was merely extending the protection that Lily's sacrifice enabled.
answered Sep 6 at 21:31
EJS
3,14331539
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
Yes.
Short answer: both. Dumbledore's spell merely extended the protection that Lily's sacrifice gave him. Look closely at the very last sentence you quoted:
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I (Dumbledore) could give you.
So, Dumbledore was merely extending the protection that Lily's sacrifice enabled.
answered Sep 6 at 21:31
EJS
3,14331539
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
up vote
11
down vote
Yes.
Short answer: both. Dumbledore's spell merely extended the protection that Lily's sacrifice gave him. Look closely at the very last sentence you quoted:
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I (Dumbledore) could give you.
So, Dumbledore was merely extending the protection that Lily's sacrifice enabled.
answered Sep 6 at 21:31
EJS
3,14331539
Yes.
Short answer: both. Dumbledore's spell merely extended the protection that Lily's sacrifice gave him. Look closely at the very last sentence you quoted:
Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I (Dumbledore) could give you.
So, Dumbledore was merely extending the protection that Lily's sacrifice enabled.
answered Sep 6 at 21:31
EJS
3,14331539
answered Sep 6 at 21:31
EJS
3,14331539
answered Sep 6 at 21:31
EJS
3,14331539
answered Sep 6 at 21:31
EJS
3,14331539
3,14331539
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
No, there was only his mother's shield that was protecting him. J.K. Rowling used this in the question sense that it was such a strong shield that even Dumbledore cannot give that shield to anyone and could not break it.
edited Sep 7 at 5:15
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 7 at 5:03
Muhammad
9
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2
Do you have textual evidence for this?
– EJS
Sep 7 at 13:15
No right now but i will find some
– Muhammad
Sep 7 at 14:48
1
I don't understand your wording? Dumbledore did not try to break the charm. He only used it to enhance Harry's protection with a charm of his (Dumbledore's) own. It was a strong shield but Dumbledore advanced on it. And it could be broken. One way was when Harry became of age, that would break it. Another way to break it would be Harry going to live on his own or with someone other than the Dursleys.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:23
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
No, there was only his mother's shield that was protecting him. J.K. Rowling used this in the question sense that it was such a strong shield that even Dumbledore cannot give that shield to anyone and could not break it.
edited Sep 7 at 5:15
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 7 at 5:03
Muhammad
9
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Muhammad is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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2
Do you have textual evidence for this?
– EJS
Sep 7 at 13:15
No right now but i will find some
– Muhammad
Sep 7 at 14:48
1
I don't understand your wording? Dumbledore did not try to break the charm. He only used it to enhance Harry's protection with a charm of his (Dumbledore's) own. It was a strong shield but Dumbledore advanced on it. And it could be broken. One way was when Harry became of age, that would break it. Another way to break it would be Harry going to live on his own or with someone other than the Dursleys.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:23
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
No, there was only his mother's shield that was protecting him. J.K. Rowling used this in the question sense that it was such a strong shield that even Dumbledore cannot give that shield to anyone and could not break it.
edited Sep 7 at 5:15
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 7 at 5:03
Muhammad
9
New contributor
Muhammad is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
No, there was only his mother's shield that was protecting him. J.K. Rowling used this in the question sense that it was such a strong shield that even Dumbledore cannot give that shield to anyone and could not break it.
edited Sep 7 at 5:15
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 7 at 5:03
Muhammad
9
New contributor
Muhammad is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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edited Sep 7 at 5:15
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
edited Sep 7 at 5:15
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
edited Sep 7 at 5:15
Bellatrix
55.1k11255290
55.1k11255290
answered Sep 7 at 5:03
Muhammad
9
New contributor
Muhammad is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Sep 7 at 5:03
Muhammad
9
answered Sep 7 at 5:03
Muhammad
9
9
New contributor
Muhammad is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Muhammad is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Muhammad is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
Do you have textual evidence for this?
– EJS
Sep 7 at 13:15
No right now but i will find some
– Muhammad
Sep 7 at 14:48
1
I don't understand your wording? Dumbledore did not try to break the charm. He only used it to enhance Harry's protection with a charm of his (Dumbledore's) own. It was a strong shield but Dumbledore advanced on it. And it could be broken. One way was when Harry became of age, that would break it. Another way to break it would be Harry going to live on his own or with someone other than the Dursleys.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:23
add a comment |Â
2
Do you have textual evidence for this?
– EJS
Sep 7 at 13:15
No right now but i will find some
– Muhammad
Sep 7 at 14:48
1
I don't understand your wording? Dumbledore did not try to break the charm. He only used it to enhance Harry's protection with a charm of his (Dumbledore's) own. It was a strong shield but Dumbledore advanced on it. And it could be broken. One way was when Harry became of age, that would break it. Another way to break it would be Harry going to live on his own or with someone other than the Dursleys.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:23
2
2
Do you have textual evidence for this?
– EJS
Sep 7 at 13:15
Do you have textual evidence for this?
– EJS
Sep 7 at 13:15
No right now but i will find some
– Muhammad
Sep 7 at 14:48
No right now but i will find some
– Muhammad
Sep 7 at 14:48
1
1
I don't understand your wording? Dumbledore did not try to break the charm. He only used it to enhance Harry's protection with a charm of his (Dumbledore's) own. It was a strong shield but Dumbledore advanced on it. And it could be broken. One way was when Harry became of age, that would break it. Another way to break it would be Harry going to live on his own or with someone other than the Dursleys.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:23
I don't understand your wording? Dumbledore did not try to break the charm. He only used it to enhance Harry's protection with a charm of his (Dumbledore's) own. It was a strong shield but Dumbledore advanced on it. And it could be broken. One way was when Harry became of age, that would break it. Another way to break it would be Harry going to live on his own or with someone other than the Dursleys.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:23
add a comment |Â
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1
scifi.stackexchange.com/a/129381/23243 might be of interest to you.
– FuzzyBoots
Sep 6 at 17:09
2
I really like this question because it provides a bit of headcanon for me around how Harry didn't turn out to be evil despite the years of abuse he suffered at the hands of relatives. Magic! :D
– Wayne Werner
Sep 7 at 16:30
Thank you. Plus it expands on Lily's protection and how Dumbledore played a role, placing Harry in the care of his mother's relation. Not matter how cruel or horrible they were to Harry, that is where he had to be. He would be safe where the blood of his mother dwell's.
– Flitoangel
Sep 8 at 3:35
@WayneWerner There's a fanfic about a more 'realistic' mind set for Harry to have after years of abuse - 'Brutal Harry'. It's honestly not bad, although still has the usual fanfic lack of polish and editing.
– Adonalsium
yesterday