How to deal with players who make friends with goblins?
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I want to run a campaign 'from the book' for a group of new players (played rpg's before, but stuff much much lighter then DnD, and I've not DM'd this edition before (DM'd 4e once, over prepared in some areas, under prepared in others so the pacing was horrible and off putting, so I didn't run it again (although the players seemed happy to try again))
However, one of my fears that by trying to run it 'from the book' I might accidentally rail road them too much.
How do I stop the players 'making friends with goblins' or in other words, what is the motivation for various random encounter battles that are supposed to be had to level the players up?
I've flicked through both Tomb of Annihilation where this could be fun with the hex-crawl random encounter portion, as well as Dragon Heist (the latter ,one player is immediately off-put by, reason 1. no dragons when it says dragon in the name. 2. They suspect they have had a really cheesy plot point spoiled for them, but I'm not sure it's true)
When random encounters happen in dungeons or jungles, and monsters attack, Do I always need a backup plan for 'what if they make friends with the monsters' What happens if it runs counter to the books?
dnd-5e
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I want to run a campaign 'from the book' for a group of new players (played rpg's before, but stuff much much lighter then DnD, and I've not DM'd this edition before (DM'd 4e once, over prepared in some areas, under prepared in others so the pacing was horrible and off putting, so I didn't run it again (although the players seemed happy to try again))
However, one of my fears that by trying to run it 'from the book' I might accidentally rail road them too much.
How do I stop the players 'making friends with goblins' or in other words, what is the motivation for various random encounter battles that are supposed to be had to level the players up?
I've flicked through both Tomb of Annihilation where this could be fun with the hex-crawl random encounter portion, as well as Dragon Heist (the latter ,one player is immediately off-put by, reason 1. no dragons when it says dragon in the name. 2. They suspect they have had a really cheesy plot point spoiled for them, but I'm not sure it's true)
When random encounters happen in dungeons or jungles, and monsters attack, Do I always need a backup plan for 'what if they make friends with the monsters' What happens if it runs counter to the books?
dnd-5e
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I want to run a campaign 'from the book' for a group of new players (played rpg's before, but stuff much much lighter then DnD, and I've not DM'd this edition before (DM'd 4e once, over prepared in some areas, under prepared in others so the pacing was horrible and off putting, so I didn't run it again (although the players seemed happy to try again))
However, one of my fears that by trying to run it 'from the book' I might accidentally rail road them too much.
How do I stop the players 'making friends with goblins' or in other words, what is the motivation for various random encounter battles that are supposed to be had to level the players up?
I've flicked through both Tomb of Annihilation where this could be fun with the hex-crawl random encounter portion, as well as Dragon Heist (the latter ,one player is immediately off-put by, reason 1. no dragons when it says dragon in the name. 2. They suspect they have had a really cheesy plot point spoiled for them, but I'm not sure it's true)
When random encounters happen in dungeons or jungles, and monsters attack, Do I always need a backup plan for 'what if they make friends with the monsters' What happens if it runs counter to the books?
dnd-5e
I want to run a campaign 'from the book' for a group of new players (played rpg's before, but stuff much much lighter then DnD, and I've not DM'd this edition before (DM'd 4e once, over prepared in some areas, under prepared in others so the pacing was horrible and off putting, so I didn't run it again (although the players seemed happy to try again))
However, one of my fears that by trying to run it 'from the book' I might accidentally rail road them too much.
How do I stop the players 'making friends with goblins' or in other words, what is the motivation for various random encounter battles that are supposed to be had to level the players up?
I've flicked through both Tomb of Annihilation where this could be fun with the hex-crawl random encounter portion, as well as Dragon Heist (the latter ,one player is immediately off-put by, reason 1. no dragons when it says dragon in the name. 2. They suspect they have had a really cheesy plot point spoiled for them, but I'm not sure it's true)
When random encounters happen in dungeons or jungles, and monsters attack, Do I always need a backup plan for 'what if they make friends with the monsters' What happens if it runs counter to the books?
dnd-5e
dnd-5e
edited 20 mins ago
asked 1 hour ago
Ryan The Leach
1526
1526
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Give them XP for resolving and surviving the encounter.
Yes, D&D is primarily a combat game. However, that doesn't always mean that all encounters must be handled via combat. In practice, combat is just one of several approaches.
When the goblins show up, the players should choose how they handle this new challenge. Such as:
Sneaking past the goblins, thereby not being attacked
Sneaking up on the goblins and then defeating them in a surprise attack
Using social skills to persuade, intimidate, or trick the goblins so that they don't attack
Charging the goblins head-on and defeating them in brutal combat
Turning around and avoiding the goblins entirely
These are but a few examples. Whenever NPCs interact with the characters in a potentially challenging way, the players should earn an amount of XP if they survive the encounter. The Dungeon Master's Guide says
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters - typically by killing, routing, or capturing them - they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Even if the challenge is initially presented as a combat, as long as the players survive, they should get the XP for completing the challenge.
While this is a great answer, 'turning around' is not really solving an encounter. "Yes mr. DM, I'm level 20 now." Why? "Well by not going out to kill liches and ancient dragons, I avoided their encounters and I should get the exp accordingly."
– Theik
16 mins ago
I echo @Theik, that last point is the one thing that I wouldn't give XP for, otherwise this is a good answer.
– SeriousBri
12 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
You give your goblins personality
Making friends is not as simple as rolling a good persuasion check, you need to have things in common. In the case of goblins who usually see humans as prey (farmers) and death (adventurers / guards) they have no actual reason to trust the party.
A good persuasion check might get the goblins to stop attacking, or allow the party to pass an area, but the party would have to go to exceptional lengths to actually build trust. And friendship can't start until then.
If the party does go to lengths to build trust then just let them. You have already imbued the goblins with personality so it should be a bit easier figuring out what they want, and you have some new (Strange) quest givers!
Less specific to goblins
Every creature in the world has wants and needs, if you think of the world as a living ecosystem instead of wandering bags of hitpoints it starts to make more sense.
Say the party runs into a group of wolves. Ask yourself; why are they there (are they hunting something - is that the party?), why would they fight?, under what circumstances would they flee? (Most creatures won't fight to the death),how would they fight? (This makes each combat different, for example a hunting party might attack from stealth, a group of guards would try to raise an alarm of some kind).
When you have the answers to questions like this you know if making friends is possible, what would be needed in order to do so, and what might happen afterwards.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
What’s wrong with making friends with goblins?
The DMG says (p. 260) that you get XP “[w]hen adventurers defeat one or more monsters-typically by killing, routing or capturing them ...â€Â
That means there are atypical ways of defeating monsters - turning them into friends is one of these.
Naturally, there should be risk, sacrifice and challenge in the social encounter just as there would be in a combat encounter and as DM you are free to adjust the XP award as you see fit. Remember that players respond to incentives: if war-war pays better than jaw-jaw then that’s what you’ll get and vice versa.
Oh, and friendships in D&D always create complications.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Monsters are generally there to attack. Though if you give your monsters some personality or motivation then players may attempt dialog and try to resolve the situation without combat. If the monsters simply draw weapons and attack then the PCs are likely to do the same.
If the players still attempt a non-combat solution then that is fine too.
It is always going to be up to you as a DM whether this even has a chance of working. A bunch of blood-crazed cultists intent on sacrificing you to their dark lord may simply not listen to reason, regardless of Persuasion checks (and it's best not to roll dice if you know there is no point).
However, goblins who are simply trying to defend their home...they may be more amenable to resolving the encounter peacefully, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Some foes are just unintelligent monsters of course that will attack regardless. Others will have motivations that a wily player may be able to use to their advantage.
But remember that enemies can be successfully counted as "defeated" regardless of how that happens: whether it is with combat or through social interaction. Either way earns players XP!
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Give them XP for resolving and surviving the encounter.
Yes, D&D is primarily a combat game. However, that doesn't always mean that all encounters must be handled via combat. In practice, combat is just one of several approaches.
When the goblins show up, the players should choose how they handle this new challenge. Such as:
Sneaking past the goblins, thereby not being attacked
Sneaking up on the goblins and then defeating them in a surprise attack
Using social skills to persuade, intimidate, or trick the goblins so that they don't attack
Charging the goblins head-on and defeating them in brutal combat
Turning around and avoiding the goblins entirely
These are but a few examples. Whenever NPCs interact with the characters in a potentially challenging way, the players should earn an amount of XP if they survive the encounter. The Dungeon Master's Guide says
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters - typically by killing, routing, or capturing them - they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Even if the challenge is initially presented as a combat, as long as the players survive, they should get the XP for completing the challenge.
While this is a great answer, 'turning around' is not really solving an encounter. "Yes mr. DM, I'm level 20 now." Why? "Well by not going out to kill liches and ancient dragons, I avoided their encounters and I should get the exp accordingly."
– Theik
16 mins ago
I echo @Theik, that last point is the one thing that I wouldn't give XP for, otherwise this is a good answer.
– SeriousBri
12 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Give them XP for resolving and surviving the encounter.
Yes, D&D is primarily a combat game. However, that doesn't always mean that all encounters must be handled via combat. In practice, combat is just one of several approaches.
When the goblins show up, the players should choose how they handle this new challenge. Such as:
Sneaking past the goblins, thereby not being attacked
Sneaking up on the goblins and then defeating them in a surprise attack
Using social skills to persuade, intimidate, or trick the goblins so that they don't attack
Charging the goblins head-on and defeating them in brutal combat
Turning around and avoiding the goblins entirely
These are but a few examples. Whenever NPCs interact with the characters in a potentially challenging way, the players should earn an amount of XP if they survive the encounter. The Dungeon Master's Guide says
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters - typically by killing, routing, or capturing them - they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Even if the challenge is initially presented as a combat, as long as the players survive, they should get the XP for completing the challenge.
While this is a great answer, 'turning around' is not really solving an encounter. "Yes mr. DM, I'm level 20 now." Why? "Well by not going out to kill liches and ancient dragons, I avoided their encounters and I should get the exp accordingly."
– Theik
16 mins ago
I echo @Theik, that last point is the one thing that I wouldn't give XP for, otherwise this is a good answer.
– SeriousBri
12 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Give them XP for resolving and surviving the encounter.
Yes, D&D is primarily a combat game. However, that doesn't always mean that all encounters must be handled via combat. In practice, combat is just one of several approaches.
When the goblins show up, the players should choose how they handle this new challenge. Such as:
Sneaking past the goblins, thereby not being attacked
Sneaking up on the goblins and then defeating them in a surprise attack
Using social skills to persuade, intimidate, or trick the goblins so that they don't attack
Charging the goblins head-on and defeating them in brutal combat
Turning around and avoiding the goblins entirely
These are but a few examples. Whenever NPCs interact with the characters in a potentially challenging way, the players should earn an amount of XP if they survive the encounter. The Dungeon Master's Guide says
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters - typically by killing, routing, or capturing them - they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Even if the challenge is initially presented as a combat, as long as the players survive, they should get the XP for completing the challenge.
Give them XP for resolving and surviving the encounter.
Yes, D&D is primarily a combat game. However, that doesn't always mean that all encounters must be handled via combat. In practice, combat is just one of several approaches.
When the goblins show up, the players should choose how they handle this new challenge. Such as:
Sneaking past the goblins, thereby not being attacked
Sneaking up on the goblins and then defeating them in a surprise attack
Using social skills to persuade, intimidate, or trick the goblins so that they don't attack
Charging the goblins head-on and defeating them in brutal combat
Turning around and avoiding the goblins entirely
These are but a few examples. Whenever NPCs interact with the characters in a potentially challenging way, the players should earn an amount of XP if they survive the encounter. The Dungeon Master's Guide says
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters - typically by killing, routing, or capturing them - they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Even if the challenge is initially presented as a combat, as long as the players survive, they should get the XP for completing the challenge.
answered 23 mins ago


Mike Q
8,54431761
8,54431761
While this is a great answer, 'turning around' is not really solving an encounter. "Yes mr. DM, I'm level 20 now." Why? "Well by not going out to kill liches and ancient dragons, I avoided their encounters and I should get the exp accordingly."
– Theik
16 mins ago
I echo @Theik, that last point is the one thing that I wouldn't give XP for, otherwise this is a good answer.
– SeriousBri
12 mins ago
add a comment |Â
While this is a great answer, 'turning around' is not really solving an encounter. "Yes mr. DM, I'm level 20 now." Why? "Well by not going out to kill liches and ancient dragons, I avoided their encounters and I should get the exp accordingly."
– Theik
16 mins ago
I echo @Theik, that last point is the one thing that I wouldn't give XP for, otherwise this is a good answer.
– SeriousBri
12 mins ago
While this is a great answer, 'turning around' is not really solving an encounter. "Yes mr. DM, I'm level 20 now." Why? "Well by not going out to kill liches and ancient dragons, I avoided their encounters and I should get the exp accordingly."
– Theik
16 mins ago
While this is a great answer, 'turning around' is not really solving an encounter. "Yes mr. DM, I'm level 20 now." Why? "Well by not going out to kill liches and ancient dragons, I avoided their encounters and I should get the exp accordingly."
– Theik
16 mins ago
I echo @Theik, that last point is the one thing that I wouldn't give XP for, otherwise this is a good answer.
– SeriousBri
12 mins ago
I echo @Theik, that last point is the one thing that I wouldn't give XP for, otherwise this is a good answer.
– SeriousBri
12 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
You give your goblins personality
Making friends is not as simple as rolling a good persuasion check, you need to have things in common. In the case of goblins who usually see humans as prey (farmers) and death (adventurers / guards) they have no actual reason to trust the party.
A good persuasion check might get the goblins to stop attacking, or allow the party to pass an area, but the party would have to go to exceptional lengths to actually build trust. And friendship can't start until then.
If the party does go to lengths to build trust then just let them. You have already imbued the goblins with personality so it should be a bit easier figuring out what they want, and you have some new (Strange) quest givers!
Less specific to goblins
Every creature in the world has wants and needs, if you think of the world as a living ecosystem instead of wandering bags of hitpoints it starts to make more sense.
Say the party runs into a group of wolves. Ask yourself; why are they there (are they hunting something - is that the party?), why would they fight?, under what circumstances would they flee? (Most creatures won't fight to the death),how would they fight? (This makes each combat different, for example a hunting party might attack from stealth, a group of guards would try to raise an alarm of some kind).
When you have the answers to questions like this you know if making friends is possible, what would be needed in order to do so, and what might happen afterwards.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
You give your goblins personality
Making friends is not as simple as rolling a good persuasion check, you need to have things in common. In the case of goblins who usually see humans as prey (farmers) and death (adventurers / guards) they have no actual reason to trust the party.
A good persuasion check might get the goblins to stop attacking, or allow the party to pass an area, but the party would have to go to exceptional lengths to actually build trust. And friendship can't start until then.
If the party does go to lengths to build trust then just let them. You have already imbued the goblins with personality so it should be a bit easier figuring out what they want, and you have some new (Strange) quest givers!
Less specific to goblins
Every creature in the world has wants and needs, if you think of the world as a living ecosystem instead of wandering bags of hitpoints it starts to make more sense.
Say the party runs into a group of wolves. Ask yourself; why are they there (are they hunting something - is that the party?), why would they fight?, under what circumstances would they flee? (Most creatures won't fight to the death),how would they fight? (This makes each combat different, for example a hunting party might attack from stealth, a group of guards would try to raise an alarm of some kind).
When you have the answers to questions like this you know if making friends is possible, what would be needed in order to do so, and what might happen afterwards.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
You give your goblins personality
Making friends is not as simple as rolling a good persuasion check, you need to have things in common. In the case of goblins who usually see humans as prey (farmers) and death (adventurers / guards) they have no actual reason to trust the party.
A good persuasion check might get the goblins to stop attacking, or allow the party to pass an area, but the party would have to go to exceptional lengths to actually build trust. And friendship can't start until then.
If the party does go to lengths to build trust then just let them. You have already imbued the goblins with personality so it should be a bit easier figuring out what they want, and you have some new (Strange) quest givers!
Less specific to goblins
Every creature in the world has wants and needs, if you think of the world as a living ecosystem instead of wandering bags of hitpoints it starts to make more sense.
Say the party runs into a group of wolves. Ask yourself; why are they there (are they hunting something - is that the party?), why would they fight?, under what circumstances would they flee? (Most creatures won't fight to the death),how would they fight? (This makes each combat different, for example a hunting party might attack from stealth, a group of guards would try to raise an alarm of some kind).
When you have the answers to questions like this you know if making friends is possible, what would be needed in order to do so, and what might happen afterwards.
You give your goblins personality
Making friends is not as simple as rolling a good persuasion check, you need to have things in common. In the case of goblins who usually see humans as prey (farmers) and death (adventurers / guards) they have no actual reason to trust the party.
A good persuasion check might get the goblins to stop attacking, or allow the party to pass an area, but the party would have to go to exceptional lengths to actually build trust. And friendship can't start until then.
If the party does go to lengths to build trust then just let them. You have already imbued the goblins with personality so it should be a bit easier figuring out what they want, and you have some new (Strange) quest givers!
Less specific to goblins
Every creature in the world has wants and needs, if you think of the world as a living ecosystem instead of wandering bags of hitpoints it starts to make more sense.
Say the party runs into a group of wolves. Ask yourself; why are they there (are they hunting something - is that the party?), why would they fight?, under what circumstances would they flee? (Most creatures won't fight to the death),how would they fight? (This makes each combat different, for example a hunting party might attack from stealth, a group of guards would try to raise an alarm of some kind).
When you have the answers to questions like this you know if making friends is possible, what would be needed in order to do so, and what might happen afterwards.
answered 40 mins ago
SeriousBri
4,46221038
4,46221038
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
What’s wrong with making friends with goblins?
The DMG says (p. 260) that you get XP “[w]hen adventurers defeat one or more monsters-typically by killing, routing or capturing them ...â€Â
That means there are atypical ways of defeating monsters - turning them into friends is one of these.
Naturally, there should be risk, sacrifice and challenge in the social encounter just as there would be in a combat encounter and as DM you are free to adjust the XP award as you see fit. Remember that players respond to incentives: if war-war pays better than jaw-jaw then that’s what you’ll get and vice versa.
Oh, and friendships in D&D always create complications.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
What’s wrong with making friends with goblins?
The DMG says (p. 260) that you get XP “[w]hen adventurers defeat one or more monsters-typically by killing, routing or capturing them ...â€Â
That means there are atypical ways of defeating monsters - turning them into friends is one of these.
Naturally, there should be risk, sacrifice and challenge in the social encounter just as there would be in a combat encounter and as DM you are free to adjust the XP award as you see fit. Remember that players respond to incentives: if war-war pays better than jaw-jaw then that’s what you’ll get and vice versa.
Oh, and friendships in D&D always create complications.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
What’s wrong with making friends with goblins?
The DMG says (p. 260) that you get XP “[w]hen adventurers defeat one or more monsters-typically by killing, routing or capturing them ...â€Â
That means there are atypical ways of defeating monsters - turning them into friends is one of these.
Naturally, there should be risk, sacrifice and challenge in the social encounter just as there would be in a combat encounter and as DM you are free to adjust the XP award as you see fit. Remember that players respond to incentives: if war-war pays better than jaw-jaw then that’s what you’ll get and vice versa.
Oh, and friendships in D&D always create complications.
What’s wrong with making friends with goblins?
The DMG says (p. 260) that you get XP “[w]hen adventurers defeat one or more monsters-typically by killing, routing or capturing them ...â€Â
That means there are atypical ways of defeating monsters - turning them into friends is one of these.
Naturally, there should be risk, sacrifice and challenge in the social encounter just as there would be in a combat encounter and as DM you are free to adjust the XP award as you see fit. Remember that players respond to incentives: if war-war pays better than jaw-jaw then that’s what you’ll get and vice versa.
Oh, and friendships in D&D always create complications.
answered 33 mins ago


Dale M
96.3k19247437
96.3k19247437
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Monsters are generally there to attack. Though if you give your monsters some personality or motivation then players may attempt dialog and try to resolve the situation without combat. If the monsters simply draw weapons and attack then the PCs are likely to do the same.
If the players still attempt a non-combat solution then that is fine too.
It is always going to be up to you as a DM whether this even has a chance of working. A bunch of blood-crazed cultists intent on sacrificing you to their dark lord may simply not listen to reason, regardless of Persuasion checks (and it's best not to roll dice if you know there is no point).
However, goblins who are simply trying to defend their home...they may be more amenable to resolving the encounter peacefully, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Some foes are just unintelligent monsters of course that will attack regardless. Others will have motivations that a wily player may be able to use to their advantage.
But remember that enemies can be successfully counted as "defeated" regardless of how that happens: whether it is with combat or through social interaction. Either way earns players XP!
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Monsters are generally there to attack. Though if you give your monsters some personality or motivation then players may attempt dialog and try to resolve the situation without combat. If the monsters simply draw weapons and attack then the PCs are likely to do the same.
If the players still attempt a non-combat solution then that is fine too.
It is always going to be up to you as a DM whether this even has a chance of working. A bunch of blood-crazed cultists intent on sacrificing you to their dark lord may simply not listen to reason, regardless of Persuasion checks (and it's best not to roll dice if you know there is no point).
However, goblins who are simply trying to defend their home...they may be more amenable to resolving the encounter peacefully, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Some foes are just unintelligent monsters of course that will attack regardless. Others will have motivations that a wily player may be able to use to their advantage.
But remember that enemies can be successfully counted as "defeated" regardless of how that happens: whether it is with combat or through social interaction. Either way earns players XP!
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Monsters are generally there to attack. Though if you give your monsters some personality or motivation then players may attempt dialog and try to resolve the situation without combat. If the monsters simply draw weapons and attack then the PCs are likely to do the same.
If the players still attempt a non-combat solution then that is fine too.
It is always going to be up to you as a DM whether this even has a chance of working. A bunch of blood-crazed cultists intent on sacrificing you to their dark lord may simply not listen to reason, regardless of Persuasion checks (and it's best not to roll dice if you know there is no point).
However, goblins who are simply trying to defend their home...they may be more amenable to resolving the encounter peacefully, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Some foes are just unintelligent monsters of course that will attack regardless. Others will have motivations that a wily player may be able to use to their advantage.
But remember that enemies can be successfully counted as "defeated" regardless of how that happens: whether it is with combat or through social interaction. Either way earns players XP!
Monsters are generally there to attack. Though if you give your monsters some personality or motivation then players may attempt dialog and try to resolve the situation without combat. If the monsters simply draw weapons and attack then the PCs are likely to do the same.
If the players still attempt a non-combat solution then that is fine too.
It is always going to be up to you as a DM whether this even has a chance of working. A bunch of blood-crazed cultists intent on sacrificing you to their dark lord may simply not listen to reason, regardless of Persuasion checks (and it's best not to roll dice if you know there is no point).
However, goblins who are simply trying to defend their home...they may be more amenable to resolving the encounter peacefully, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Some foes are just unintelligent monsters of course that will attack regardless. Others will have motivations that a wily player may be able to use to their advantage.
But remember that enemies can be successfully counted as "defeated" regardless of how that happens: whether it is with combat or through social interaction. Either way earns players XP!
answered 24 mins ago


PJRZ
5,8831434
5,8831434
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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