Hesychius quote: where are those words from?

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Sappho Voigt 117A Campbell 117A number 2 (Campbell has two 117As, one is a quotation from Michael of Italy, the same as Voigt 194A, and the other one is Voigt 117A) is a quote from Hesychius, which reads:

Ξοάνων προθύρων· ἐξεσμένων

Campbell translates it as:

Smooth doorways, i.e. polished

What I was wondering was: where do those words come from? I mean, ξόανος is, I assume, an otherwise unattested word, so why translate it as "smooth"? Or is it otherwise attested, just not recorded in Perseus's LSJ digitalization? Wait: ξόανον is a noun meaning "carved image" or "musical instrument"? How does it fit here with another noun? I mean, I guess πρόθυρος could be an adjective meaning "(placed) before the door", but that doesn't match Campbell's translation, so… And ἐξεσμένων appears to be a perfect participle, but of which verb? Maybe ἐξέζομαι? Not on Perseus, and neither is ἐξίζομαι… What is up here?

vocabulary greek

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asked 4 hours ago

MickG

1,519513

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  varro has answered all of your questions. :)
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
2
down vote

favorite

Sappho Voigt 117A Campbell 117A number 2 (Campbell has two 117As, one is a quotation from Michael of Italy, the same as Voigt 194A, and the other one is Voigt 117A) is a quote from Hesychius, which reads:

Ξοάνων προθύρων· ἐξεσμένων

Campbell translates it as:

Smooth doorways, i.e. polished

What I was wondering was: where do those words come from? I mean, ξόανος is, I assume, an otherwise unattested word, so why translate it as "smooth"? Or is it otherwise attested, just not recorded in Perseus's LSJ digitalization? Wait: ξόανον is a noun meaning "carved image" or "musical instrument"? How does it fit here with another noun? I mean, I guess πρόθυρος could be an adjective meaning "(placed) before the door", but that doesn't match Campbell's translation, so… And ἐξεσμένων appears to be a perfect participle, but of which verb? Maybe ἐξέζομαι? Not on Perseus, and neither is ἐξίζομαι… What is up here?

vocabulary greek

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

MickG

1,519513

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  varro has answered all of your questions. :)
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
2
down vote

favorite

up vote
2
down vote

favorite

Sappho Voigt 117A Campbell 117A number 2 (Campbell has two 117As, one is a quotation from Michael of Italy, the same as Voigt 194A, and the other one is Voigt 117A) is a quote from Hesychius, which reads:

Ξοάνων προθύρων· ἐξεσμένων

Campbell translates it as:

Smooth doorways, i.e. polished

What I was wondering was: where do those words come from? I mean, ξόανος is, I assume, an otherwise unattested word, so why translate it as "smooth"? Or is it otherwise attested, just not recorded in Perseus's LSJ digitalization? Wait: ξόανον is a noun meaning "carved image" or "musical instrument"? How does it fit here with another noun? I mean, I guess πρόθυρος could be an adjective meaning "(placed) before the door", but that doesn't match Campbell's translation, so… And ἐξεσμένων appears to be a perfect participle, but of which verb? Maybe ἐξέζομαι? Not on Perseus, and neither is ἐξίζομαι… What is up here?

vocabulary greek

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

MickG

1,519513

Sappho Voigt 117A Campbell 117A number 2 (Campbell has two 117As, one is a quotation from Michael of Italy, the same as Voigt 194A, and the other one is Voigt 117A) is a quote from Hesychius, which reads:

Ξοάνων προθύρων· ἐξεσμένων

Campbell translates it as:

Smooth doorways, i.e. polished

What I was wondering was: where do those words come from? I mean, ξόανος is, I assume, an otherwise unattested word, so why translate it as "smooth"? Or is it otherwise attested, just not recorded in Perseus's LSJ digitalization? Wait: ξόανον is a noun meaning "carved image" or "musical instrument"? How does it fit here with another noun? I mean, I guess πρόθυρος could be an adjective meaning "(placed) before the door", but that doesn't match Campbell's translation, so… And ἐξεσμένων appears to be a perfect participle, but of which verb? Maybe ἐξέζομαι? Not on Perseus, and neither is ἐξίζομαι… What is up here?

vocabulary greek

vocabulary greek

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

MickG

1,519513

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

MickG

1,519513

share|improve this question

share|improve this question

asked 4 hours ago

MickG

1,519513

asked 4 hours ago

MickG

1,519513

asked 4 hours ago

MickG

1,519513

1,519513

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  varro has answered all of your questions. :)
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  varro has answered all of your questions. :)
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

varro has answered all of your questions. :)
– Alex B.
3 hours ago

varro has answered all of your questions. :)
– Alex B.
3 hours ago

add a comment | 

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

up vote
2
down vote



accepted

Here's at least a partial answer:

Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.

So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.

Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 4 hours ago

varro

2,9031212

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
  – varro
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

Correction, based on Latte 1952

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alex B.

7,36911327

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
  – MickG
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
  – Alex B.
  29 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
  – MickG
  26 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
  – Alex B.
  23 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
  – MickG
  4 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

up vote
2
down vote



accepted

Here's at least a partial answer:

Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.

So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.

Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 4 hours ago

varro

2,9031212

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
  – varro
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
2
down vote



accepted

Here's at least a partial answer:

Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.

So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.

Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 4 hours ago

varro

2,9031212

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
  – varro
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
2
down vote



accepted

up vote
2
down vote



accepted

Here's at least a partial answer:

Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.

So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.

Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 4 hours ago

varro

2,9031212

Here's at least a partial answer:

Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.

So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.

Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

answered 4 hours ago

varro

2,9031212

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited 3 hours ago

edited 3 hours ago

edited 3 hours ago

answered 4 hours ago

varro

2,9031212

answered 4 hours ago

varro

2,9031212

answered 4 hours ago

varro

2,9031212

2,9031212

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
  – varro
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
  – Alex B.
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
  – varro
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
– Alex B.
3 hours ago

One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
– Alex B.
3 hours ago

@AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
– varro
3 hours ago

@AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
– varro
3 hours ago

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

Correction, based on Latte 1952

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alex B.

7,36911327

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
  – MickG
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
  – Alex B.
  29 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
  – MickG
  26 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
  – Alex B.
  23 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
  – MickG
  4 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

Correction, based on Latte 1952

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alex B.

7,36911327

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
  – MickG
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
  – Alex B.
  29 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
  – MickG
  26 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
  – Alex B.
  23 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
  – MickG
  4 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

up vote
0
down vote

Correction, based on Latte 1952

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alex B.

7,36911327

Correction, based on Latte 1952

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alex B.

7,36911327

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered 3 hours ago

Alex B.

7,36911327

answered 3 hours ago

Alex B.

7,36911327

answered 3 hours ago

Alex B.

7,36911327

7,36911327

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
  – MickG
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
  – Alex B.
  29 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
  – MickG
  26 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
  – Alex B.
  23 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
  – MickG
  4 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
  – MickG
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
  – Alex B.
  29 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
  – MickG
  26 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
  – Alex B.
  23 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
  – MickG
  4 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

<<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
– MickG
2 hours ago

<<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
– MickG
2 hours ago

@MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
– Alex B.
29 mins ago

@MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
– Alex B.
29 mins ago

I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
– MickG
26 mins ago

I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
– MickG
26 mins ago

@MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
– Alex B.
23 mins ago

@MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
– Alex B.
23 mins ago

Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
– MickG
4 mins ago

Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
– MickG
4 mins ago

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