Hesychius quote: where are those words from?

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Sappho Voigt 117A Campbell 117A number 2 (Campbell has two 117As, one is a quotation from Michael of Italy, the same as Voigt 194A, and the other one is Voigt 117A) is a quote from Hesychius, which reads:




Ξοάνων προθύρων· ἐξεσμένων




Campbell translates it as:




Smooth doorways, i.e. polished




What I was wondering was: where do those words come from? I mean, ξόανος is, I assume, an otherwise unattested word, so why translate it as "smooth"? Or is it otherwise attested, just not recorded in Perseus's LSJ digitalization? Wait: ξόανον is a noun meaning "carved image" or "musical instrument"? How does it fit here with another noun? I mean, I guess πρόθυρος could be an adjective meaning "(placed) before the door", but that doesn't match Campbell's translation, so… And ἐξεσμένων appears to be a perfect participle, but of which verb? Maybe ἐξέζομαι? Not on Perseus, and neither is ἐξίζομαι… What is up here?










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  • varro has answered all of your questions. :)
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago














up vote
2
down vote

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Sappho Voigt 117A Campbell 117A number 2 (Campbell has two 117As, one is a quotation from Michael of Italy, the same as Voigt 194A, and the other one is Voigt 117A) is a quote from Hesychius, which reads:




Ξοάνων προθύρων· ἐξεσμένων




Campbell translates it as:




Smooth doorways, i.e. polished




What I was wondering was: where do those words come from? I mean, ξόανος is, I assume, an otherwise unattested word, so why translate it as "smooth"? Or is it otherwise attested, just not recorded in Perseus's LSJ digitalization? Wait: ξόανον is a noun meaning "carved image" or "musical instrument"? How does it fit here with another noun? I mean, I guess πρόθυρος could be an adjective meaning "(placed) before the door", but that doesn't match Campbell's translation, so… And ἐξεσμένων appears to be a perfect participle, but of which verb? Maybe ἐξέζομαι? Not on Perseus, and neither is ἐξίζομαι… What is up here?










share|improve this question





















  • varro has answered all of your questions. :)
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago












up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











Sappho Voigt 117A Campbell 117A number 2 (Campbell has two 117As, one is a quotation from Michael of Italy, the same as Voigt 194A, and the other one is Voigt 117A) is a quote from Hesychius, which reads:




Ξοάνων προθύρων· ἐξεσμένων




Campbell translates it as:




Smooth doorways, i.e. polished




What I was wondering was: where do those words come from? I mean, ξόανος is, I assume, an otherwise unattested word, so why translate it as "smooth"? Or is it otherwise attested, just not recorded in Perseus's LSJ digitalization? Wait: ξόανον is a noun meaning "carved image" or "musical instrument"? How does it fit here with another noun? I mean, I guess πρόθυρος could be an adjective meaning "(placed) before the door", but that doesn't match Campbell's translation, so… And ἐξεσμένων appears to be a perfect participle, but of which verb? Maybe ἐξέζομαι? Not on Perseus, and neither is ἐξίζομαι… What is up here?










share|improve this question













Sappho Voigt 117A Campbell 117A number 2 (Campbell has two 117As, one is a quotation from Michael of Italy, the same as Voigt 194A, and the other one is Voigt 117A) is a quote from Hesychius, which reads:




Ξοάνων προθύρων· ἐξεσμένων




Campbell translates it as:




Smooth doorways, i.e. polished




What I was wondering was: where do those words come from? I mean, ξόανος is, I assume, an otherwise unattested word, so why translate it as "smooth"? Or is it otherwise attested, just not recorded in Perseus's LSJ digitalization? Wait: ξόανον is a noun meaning "carved image" or "musical instrument"? How does it fit here with another noun? I mean, I guess πρόθυρος could be an adjective meaning "(placed) before the door", but that doesn't match Campbell's translation, so… And ἐξεσμένων appears to be a perfect participle, but of which verb? Maybe ἐξέζομαι? Not on Perseus, and neither is ἐξίζομαι… What is up here?







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asked 4 hours ago









MickG

1,519513




1,519513











  • varro has answered all of your questions. :)
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago
















  • varro has answered all of your questions. :)
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago















varro has answered all of your questions. :)
– Alex B.
3 hours ago




varro has answered all of your questions. :)
– Alex B.
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Here's at least a partial answer:



Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.



So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.



Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".






share|improve this answer






















  • One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago










  • @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
    – varro
    3 hours ago

















up vote
0
down vote













Correction, based on Latte 1952



enter image description here






share|improve this answer




















  • <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
    – MickG
    2 hours ago










  • @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
    – Alex B.
    29 mins ago










  • I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
    – MickG
    26 mins ago










  • @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
    – Alex B.
    23 mins ago










  • Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
    – MickG
    4 mins ago










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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Here's at least a partial answer:



Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.



So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.



Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".






share|improve this answer






















  • One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago










  • @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
    – varro
    3 hours ago














up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Here's at least a partial answer:



Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.



So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.



Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".






share|improve this answer






















  • One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago










  • @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
    – varro
    3 hours ago












up vote
2
down vote



accepted







up vote
2
down vote



accepted






Here's at least a partial answer:



Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.



So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.



Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".






share|improve this answer














Here's at least a partial answer:



Ξόανον, "carved image" looks like it comes from ξοΐς, "sculptor's chisel", which in turn comes from ξέειν, "to smooth or polish by scraping". It looks like ἐξεσμένον is a passive participle of the latter verb.



So, at least the general idea of polishing (by scraping) is present in both ξοάνων and ἐξεσμένων, although the details of the construction are not completely clear to me.



Actually, πρόθυρον means "front door", so one can see how ξοάνων προθύρων could have the meaning "polished doors".







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 3 hours ago

























answered 4 hours ago









varro

2,9031212




2,9031212











  • One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago










  • @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
    – varro
    3 hours ago
















  • One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
    – Alex B.
    3 hours ago










  • @AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
    – varro
    3 hours ago















One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
– Alex B.
3 hours ago




One correction though. ξόανον is an adjective here - see my screenshot from Latte 1952 (this reference is mentioned in Voigt of course, but MickG decided not to mention such an important thing though).
– Alex B.
3 hours ago












@AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
– varro
3 hours ago




@AlexB.: yes, I was unsure whether it should be construed as a adjective or a noun in apposition.
– varro
3 hours ago










up vote
0
down vote













Correction, based on Latte 1952



enter image description here






share|improve this answer




















  • <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
    – MickG
    2 hours ago










  • @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
    – Alex B.
    29 mins ago










  • I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
    – MickG
    26 mins ago










  • @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
    – Alex B.
    23 mins ago










  • Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
    – MickG
    4 mins ago














up vote
0
down vote













Correction, based on Latte 1952



enter image description here






share|improve this answer




















  • <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
    – MickG
    2 hours ago










  • @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
    – Alex B.
    29 mins ago










  • I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
    – MickG
    26 mins ago










  • @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
    – Alex B.
    23 mins ago










  • Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
    – MickG
    4 mins ago












up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









Correction, based on Latte 1952



enter image description here






share|improve this answer












Correction, based on Latte 1952



enter image description here







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 3 hours ago









Alex B.

7,36911327




7,36911327











  • <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
    – MickG
    2 hours ago










  • @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
    – Alex B.
    29 mins ago










  • I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
    – MickG
    26 mins ago










  • @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
    – Alex B.
    23 mins ago










  • Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
    – MickG
    4 mins ago
















  • <<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
    – MickG
    2 hours ago










  • @MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
    – Alex B.
    29 mins ago










  • I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
    – MickG
    26 mins ago










  • @MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
    – Alex B.
    23 mins ago










  • Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
    – MickG
    4 mins ago















<<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
– MickG
2 hours ago




<<Es ist der einzige unmittelbar erhaltene Beleg für das von xéō abgeleitete Adjektivum xŏanós (gebildet wie pithanós steganós epsanós), während sonst nur das Substantivum xóanŏn "Schnitzbild" vorkommt.>>, aka <<It is the only directly obtained evidence for the adjective xŏanós derived from xéō (built like pithanós, steganós, epsanós), while otherwise onlythe noun xóanŏn, "carved image", occurs>>.
– MickG
2 hours ago












@MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
– Alex B.
29 mins ago




@MickG and? How much was actually preserved from Sappho? Mostly fragments.
– Alex B.
29 mins ago












I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
– MickG
26 mins ago




I was just translating for those (me in primis) who have a hard or impossible time reading German. After working on Sappho so long, I very well know how fragmentary the preservation of her poems is. What did you think I was insinuating with that translation :)?
– MickG
26 mins ago












@MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
– Alex B.
23 mins ago




@MickG I see. Thanks for the English translation then! I thought you were trying to say it was a hapax legomenon.
– Alex B.
23 mins ago












Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
– MickG
4 mins ago




Well, technically it is, as far as we know, isn't it? I mean, the sentence I translated seems to say so... In any case, being attested only once may draw skepticism, but when the adjective is kind of expected, and in a quotation like this where the known noun doesn't fit, I think the only way to make sense of the passage is to posit the adjective. Besides, Hesychius glosses it with an adjective, and he cannot be glossing prothýrōn with that, another anti-skepticisim observation.
– MickG
4 mins ago

















 

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