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Can the rhythm of any music with a consistent pulse be represented through a time signature?
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I tried this with a lot of world music (I myself am an Indian) and majority of it, that followed a consistent pulse or a well timed rhythm, could be expressed neatly using time signatures.
Can this be applied to all music? If yes, does it mean that any systematic rhythm does follow an underlining pulse?
theory rhythm time-signatures world-music
asked 8 hours ago
Aman Trivedi
333
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I tried this with a lot of world music (I myself am an Indian) and majority of it, that followed a consistent pulse or a well timed rhythm, could be expressed neatly using time signatures.
Can this be applied to all music? If yes, does it mean that any systematic rhythm does follow an underlining pulse?
theory rhythm time-signatures world-music
asked 8 hours ago
Aman Trivedi
333
You say 'the majority'. Did you find an example with a consistent pulse that couldn't? Please show it to us.
– Laurence Payne
3 hours ago
Majority of it that did follow a consistent pulse*
– Aman Trivedi
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I tried this with a lot of world music (I myself am an Indian) and majority of it, that followed a consistent pulse or a well timed rhythm, could be expressed neatly using time signatures.
Can this be applied to all music? If yes, does it mean that any systematic rhythm does follow an underlining pulse?
theory rhythm time-signatures world-music
asked 8 hours ago
Aman Trivedi
333
I tried this with a lot of world music (I myself am an Indian) and majority of it, that followed a consistent pulse or a well timed rhythm, could be expressed neatly using time signatures.
Can this be applied to all music? If yes, does it mean that any systematic rhythm does follow an underlining pulse?
theory rhythm time-signatures world-music
theory rhythm time-signatures world-music
asked 8 hours ago
Aman Trivedi
333
asked 8 hours ago
Aman Trivedi
333
asked 8 hours ago
Aman Trivedi
333
asked 8 hours ago
Aman Trivedi
333
asked 8 hours ago
Aman Trivedi
333
333
You say 'the majority'. Did you find an example with a consistent pulse that couldn't? Please show it to us.
– Laurence Payne
3 hours ago
Majority of it that did follow a consistent pulse*
– Aman Trivedi
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
You say 'the majority'. Did you find an example with a consistent pulse that couldn't? Please show it to us.
– Laurence Payne
3 hours ago
Majority of it that did follow a consistent pulse*
– Aman Trivedi
1 hour ago
You say 'the majority'. Did you find an example with a consistent pulse that couldn't? Please show it to us.
– Laurence Payne
3 hours ago
You say 'the majority'. Did you find an example with a consistent pulse that couldn't? Please show it to us.
– Laurence Payne
3 hours ago
Majority of it that did follow a consistent pulse*
– Aman Trivedi
1 hour ago
Majority of it that did follow a consistent pulse*
– Aman Trivedi
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Yes, as long as the music's pulse is consistent, it can be expressed with a time signature. Given polymeter music, you might need a separate time signature for each instrument/part, but you can still go for one time signature per instrument!
The time signature can look vaguely ridiculous such as 13/8 or 22/16, but hey, it's only one time signature!
(You'd be surprised how common music with an inconsistent pulse is, though!)
answered 6 hours ago
Dekkadeci
3,1932916
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Merely having consistent time intervals establishes a pulse, but not a meter. You can very well have an irregular succession of groupings of events that defies any single time signature.
Imagine a work song that accompanies rhythmic chopping of something (perhaps logs swimming by, or stones to hew...). The items of work might require one, two, three, etc. chops depending on how big each one happens to be, but the worker would still try to space the chops (and the notes) regularly. This would represent a consistent pulse with an irregular meter that can be described only through changing the time signature for every bar, which becomes pointless.
answered 4 hours ago
Kilian Foth
3,065913
Indeed. Consider Danse de la fureur, Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time's 6th movement. There is no conductor, and the four players play the same rhythm as each other throughout, so, to keep in step, they must imagine a regular pulse which determines when to play each note. But there is no regular metre. Messiaen writes no time sigs. If you wanted to use time sigs, you'd have to either change at (almost) every bar line or have bar-lines which fail to represent the music's stresses.
– Rosie F
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I think it depends what you mean by 'consistent pulse' and 'represented'!
A single time signature by itself tells you that there are a certain number of a particular note value per bar. The rhythm of the music is then notated with notes and rests within each bar that add up to the length of the bar. Note and rest values in standard notation are fractional, such that any mathematically rational note length can be represented. However, if you had a repeating (and perfectly systematic) rhythm of notes of relative length 1:√2:1:√2:1:√2... , that isn't possible to represent using standard note values within the context of a single time signature. (Of course you could still use some other notational device to represent this).
A time signature also often implies something about the relative strengths of each beat - the meter of the music. The first beat of the bar is usually inferred to be strong; the beats within the bar are then also assumed to follow a certain pattern - for example 6/8 is something like strong-weak-weak-medium-weak-weak. However, it is possible to think of a regular stress pattern that doesn't have a time signature commonly understood to imply it. In these cases, it might be useful to consider the music as a number of different time signatures alternating in a pattern, forming a mixed meter that is still regular. This is still expressing the meter through could be expressed time signatures, but not a single time signature.
answered 4 hours ago
topo morto
20.9k23691
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Yes, as long as the music's pulse is consistent, it can be expressed with a time signature. Given polymeter music, you might need a separate time signature for each instrument/part, but you can still go for one time signature per instrument!
The time signature can look vaguely ridiculous such as 13/8 or 22/16, but hey, it's only one time signature!
(You'd be surprised how common music with an inconsistent pulse is, though!)
answered 6 hours ago
Dekkadeci
3,1932916
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Yes, as long as the music's pulse is consistent, it can be expressed with a time signature. Given polymeter music, you might need a separate time signature for each instrument/part, but you can still go for one time signature per instrument!
The time signature can look vaguely ridiculous such as 13/8 or 22/16, but hey, it's only one time signature!
(You'd be surprised how common music with an inconsistent pulse is, though!)
answered 6 hours ago
Dekkadeci
3,1932916
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Yes, as long as the music's pulse is consistent, it can be expressed with a time signature. Given polymeter music, you might need a separate time signature for each instrument/part, but you can still go for one time signature per instrument!
The time signature can look vaguely ridiculous such as 13/8 or 22/16, but hey, it's only one time signature!
(You'd be surprised how common music with an inconsistent pulse is, though!)
answered 6 hours ago
Dekkadeci
3,1932916
Yes, as long as the music's pulse is consistent, it can be expressed with a time signature. Given polymeter music, you might need a separate time signature for each instrument/part, but you can still go for one time signature per instrument!
The time signature can look vaguely ridiculous such as 13/8 or 22/16, but hey, it's only one time signature!
(You'd be surprised how common music with an inconsistent pulse is, though!)
answered 6 hours ago
Dekkadeci
3,1932916
answered 6 hours ago
Dekkadeci
3,1932916
answered 6 hours ago
Dekkadeci
3,1932916
answered 6 hours ago
Dekkadeci
3,1932916
3,1932916
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Merely having consistent time intervals establishes a pulse, but not a meter. You can very well have an irregular succession of groupings of events that defies any single time signature.
Imagine a work song that accompanies rhythmic chopping of something (perhaps logs swimming by, or stones to hew...). The items of work might require one, two, three, etc. chops depending on how big each one happens to be, but the worker would still try to space the chops (and the notes) regularly. This would represent a consistent pulse with an irregular meter that can be described only through changing the time signature for every bar, which becomes pointless.
answered 4 hours ago
Kilian Foth
3,065913
Indeed. Consider Danse de la fureur, Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time's 6th movement. There is no conductor, and the four players play the same rhythm as each other throughout, so, to keep in step, they must imagine a regular pulse which determines when to play each note. But there is no regular metre. Messiaen writes no time sigs. If you wanted to use time sigs, you'd have to either change at (almost) every bar line or have bar-lines which fail to represent the music's stresses.
– Rosie F
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Merely having consistent time intervals establishes a pulse, but not a meter. You can very well have an irregular succession of groupings of events that defies any single time signature.
Imagine a work song that accompanies rhythmic chopping of something (perhaps logs swimming by, or stones to hew...). The items of work might require one, two, three, etc. chops depending on how big each one happens to be, but the worker would still try to space the chops (and the notes) regularly. This would represent a consistent pulse with an irregular meter that can be described only through changing the time signature for every bar, which becomes pointless.
answered 4 hours ago
Kilian Foth
3,065913
Indeed. Consider Danse de la fureur, Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time's 6th movement. There is no conductor, and the four players play the same rhythm as each other throughout, so, to keep in step, they must imagine a regular pulse which determines when to play each note. But there is no regular metre. Messiaen writes no time sigs. If you wanted to use time sigs, you'd have to either change at (almost) every bar line or have bar-lines which fail to represent the music's stresses.
– Rosie F
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Merely having consistent time intervals establishes a pulse, but not a meter. You can very well have an irregular succession of groupings of events that defies any single time signature.
Imagine a work song that accompanies rhythmic chopping of something (perhaps logs swimming by, or stones to hew...). The items of work might require one, two, three, etc. chops depending on how big each one happens to be, but the worker would still try to space the chops (and the notes) regularly. This would represent a consistent pulse with an irregular meter that can be described only through changing the time signature for every bar, which becomes pointless.
answered 4 hours ago
Kilian Foth
3,065913
Merely having consistent time intervals establishes a pulse, but not a meter. You can very well have an irregular succession of groupings of events that defies any single time signature.
Imagine a work song that accompanies rhythmic chopping of something (perhaps logs swimming by, or stones to hew...). The items of work might require one, two, three, etc. chops depending on how big each one happens to be, but the worker would still try to space the chops (and the notes) regularly. This would represent a consistent pulse with an irregular meter that can be described only through changing the time signature for every bar, which becomes pointless.
answered 4 hours ago
Kilian Foth
3,065913
answered 4 hours ago
Kilian Foth
3,065913
answered 4 hours ago
Kilian Foth
3,065913
answered 4 hours ago
Kilian Foth
3,065913
3,065913
Indeed. Consider Danse de la fureur, Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time's 6th movement. There is no conductor, and the four players play the same rhythm as each other throughout, so, to keep in step, they must imagine a regular pulse which determines when to play each note. But there is no regular metre. Messiaen writes no time sigs. If you wanted to use time sigs, you'd have to either change at (almost) every bar line or have bar-lines which fail to represent the music's stresses.
– Rosie F
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Indeed. Consider Danse de la fureur, Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time's 6th movement. There is no conductor, and the four players play the same rhythm as each other throughout, so, to keep in step, they must imagine a regular pulse which determines when to play each note. But there is no regular metre. Messiaen writes no time sigs. If you wanted to use time sigs, you'd have to either change at (almost) every bar line or have bar-lines which fail to represent the music's stresses.
– Rosie F
4 hours ago
Indeed. Consider Danse de la fureur, Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time's 6th movement. There is no conductor, and the four players play the same rhythm as each other throughout, so, to keep in step, they must imagine a regular pulse which determines when to play each note. But there is no regular metre. Messiaen writes no time sigs. If you wanted to use time sigs, you'd have to either change at (almost) every bar line or have bar-lines which fail to represent the music's stresses.
– Rosie F
4 hours ago
Indeed. Consider Danse de la fureur, Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time's 6th movement. There is no conductor, and the four players play the same rhythm as each other throughout, so, to keep in step, they must imagine a regular pulse which determines when to play each note. But there is no regular metre. Messiaen writes no time sigs. If you wanted to use time sigs, you'd have to either change at (almost) every bar line or have bar-lines which fail to represent the music's stresses.
– Rosie F
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I think it depends what you mean by 'consistent pulse' and 'represented'!
A single time signature by itself tells you that there are a certain number of a particular note value per bar. The rhythm of the music is then notated with notes and rests within each bar that add up to the length of the bar. Note and rest values in standard notation are fractional, such that any mathematically rational note length can be represented. However, if you had a repeating (and perfectly systematic) rhythm of notes of relative length 1:√2:1:√2:1:√2... , that isn't possible to represent using standard note values within the context of a single time signature. (Of course you could still use some other notational device to represent this).
A time signature also often implies something about the relative strengths of each beat - the meter of the music. The first beat of the bar is usually inferred to be strong; the beats within the bar are then also assumed to follow a certain pattern - for example 6/8 is something like strong-weak-weak-medium-weak-weak. However, it is possible to think of a regular stress pattern that doesn't have a time signature commonly understood to imply it. In these cases, it might be useful to consider the music as a number of different time signatures alternating in a pattern, forming a mixed meter that is still regular. This is still expressing the meter through could be expressed time signatures, but not a single time signature.
answered 4 hours ago
topo morto
20.9k23691
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I think it depends what you mean by 'consistent pulse' and 'represented'!
A single time signature by itself tells you that there are a certain number of a particular note value per bar. The rhythm of the music is then notated with notes and rests within each bar that add up to the length of the bar. Note and rest values in standard notation are fractional, such that any mathematically rational note length can be represented. However, if you had a repeating (and perfectly systematic) rhythm of notes of relative length 1:√2:1:√2:1:√2... , that isn't possible to represent using standard note values within the context of a single time signature. (Of course you could still use some other notational device to represent this).
A time signature also often implies something about the relative strengths of each beat - the meter of the music. The first beat of the bar is usually inferred to be strong; the beats within the bar are then also assumed to follow a certain pattern - for example 6/8 is something like strong-weak-weak-medium-weak-weak. However, it is possible to think of a regular stress pattern that doesn't have a time signature commonly understood to imply it. In these cases, it might be useful to consider the music as a number of different time signatures alternating in a pattern, forming a mixed meter that is still regular. This is still expressing the meter through could be expressed time signatures, but not a single time signature.
answered 4 hours ago
topo morto
20.9k23691
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I think it depends what you mean by 'consistent pulse' and 'represented'!
A single time signature by itself tells you that there are a certain number of a particular note value per bar. The rhythm of the music is then notated with notes and rests within each bar that add up to the length of the bar. Note and rest values in standard notation are fractional, such that any mathematically rational note length can be represented. However, if you had a repeating (and perfectly systematic) rhythm of notes of relative length 1:√2:1:√2:1:√2... , that isn't possible to represent using standard note values within the context of a single time signature. (Of course you could still use some other notational device to represent this).
A time signature also often implies something about the relative strengths of each beat - the meter of the music. The first beat of the bar is usually inferred to be strong; the beats within the bar are then also assumed to follow a certain pattern - for example 6/8 is something like strong-weak-weak-medium-weak-weak. However, it is possible to think of a regular stress pattern that doesn't have a time signature commonly understood to imply it. In these cases, it might be useful to consider the music as a number of different time signatures alternating in a pattern, forming a mixed meter that is still regular. This is still expressing the meter through could be expressed time signatures, but not a single time signature.
answered 4 hours ago
topo morto
20.9k23691
I think it depends what you mean by 'consistent pulse' and 'represented'!
A single time signature by itself tells you that there are a certain number of a particular note value per bar. The rhythm of the music is then notated with notes and rests within each bar that add up to the length of the bar. Note and rest values in standard notation are fractional, such that any mathematically rational note length can be represented. However, if you had a repeating (and perfectly systematic) rhythm of notes of relative length 1:√2:1:√2:1:√2... , that isn't possible to represent using standard note values within the context of a single time signature. (Of course you could still use some other notational device to represent this).
A time signature also often implies something about the relative strengths of each beat - the meter of the music. The first beat of the bar is usually inferred to be strong; the beats within the bar are then also assumed to follow a certain pattern - for example 6/8 is something like strong-weak-weak-medium-weak-weak. However, it is possible to think of a regular stress pattern that doesn't have a time signature commonly understood to imply it. In these cases, it might be useful to consider the music as a number of different time signatures alternating in a pattern, forming a mixed meter that is still regular. This is still expressing the meter through could be expressed time signatures, but not a single time signature.
answered 4 hours ago
topo morto
20.9k23691
answered 4 hours ago
topo morto
20.9k23691
answered 4 hours ago
topo morto
20.9k23691
answered 4 hours ago
topo morto
20.9k23691
20.9k23691
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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You say 'the majority'. Did you find an example with a consistent pulse that couldn't? Please show it to us.
– Laurence Payne
3 hours ago
Majority of it that did follow a consistent pulse*
– Aman Trivedi
1 hour ago