Why do European cities have so many homeless and beggars despite its high-tax welfare system?
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Any European cities I have ever visited had homeless or beggars on the street. Or these people may not necessarily be homeless but it is clear enough that they are extremely poor and need help from the social security.
However, these European countries generally implement the good welfare system due to higher taxation, compared to other developed countries/districts including USA, Canada, Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. The countries include even the first-world countries like Italy, Germany, France, and my Swedish friend said it is also common in Stockholm.
So why is the homeless and beggars so common in Europe (Western and Scandinavia), despite its high-tax, large-welfare system, and why do these people not seem to have access to it? Is it only in prominent urban cities or also common in suburban and rural?
europe social-welfare
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Any European cities I have ever visited had homeless or beggars on the street. Or these people may not necessarily be homeless but it is clear enough that they are extremely poor and need help from the social security.
However, these European countries generally implement the good welfare system due to higher taxation, compared to other developed countries/districts including USA, Canada, Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. The countries include even the first-world countries like Italy, Germany, France, and my Swedish friend said it is also common in Stockholm.
So why is the homeless and beggars so common in Europe (Western and Scandinavia), despite its high-tax, large-welfare system, and why do these people not seem to have access to it? Is it only in prominent urban cities or also common in suburban and rural?
europe social-welfare
1
I don't have an answer, but there is a related Quora post
– Bad_Bishop
22 hours ago
15
"so many" compared to where? Also: "European cities" is really a quite meaningless category for this kind of question.
– Martin Ba
20 hours ago
@MartinBa As I wrote in the comments to some answers, compared to Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. Singapore also has fewer. I meant Western Europe and Scandinavia in the body of the question but if the title is misleading, feel free to edit it.
– Blaszard
20 hours ago
@Blaszard this question is based upon your perception and needs some data, such as: homelessness rates in all the regions you mention; and a distinction between begging and homelessness. Some countries hide their social problems away in ghettos that tourists wouldn't visit. Others hide them by manipulating data. Right now this question is too broad and under-researched.
– Aaron F
2 hours ago
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up vote
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Any European cities I have ever visited had homeless or beggars on the street. Or these people may not necessarily be homeless but it is clear enough that they are extremely poor and need help from the social security.
However, these European countries generally implement the good welfare system due to higher taxation, compared to other developed countries/districts including USA, Canada, Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. The countries include even the first-world countries like Italy, Germany, France, and my Swedish friend said it is also common in Stockholm.
So why is the homeless and beggars so common in Europe (Western and Scandinavia), despite its high-tax, large-welfare system, and why do these people not seem to have access to it? Is it only in prominent urban cities or also common in suburban and rural?
europe social-welfare
Any European cities I have ever visited had homeless or beggars on the street. Or these people may not necessarily be homeless but it is clear enough that they are extremely poor and need help from the social security.
However, these European countries generally implement the good welfare system due to higher taxation, compared to other developed countries/districts including USA, Canada, Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. The countries include even the first-world countries like Italy, Germany, France, and my Swedish friend said it is also common in Stockholm.
So why is the homeless and beggars so common in Europe (Western and Scandinavia), despite its high-tax, large-welfare system, and why do these people not seem to have access to it? Is it only in prominent urban cities or also common in suburban and rural?
europe social-welfare
europe social-welfare
edited 22 hours ago
JJJ
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asked 22 hours ago
Blaszard
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I don't have an answer, but there is a related Quora post
– Bad_Bishop
22 hours ago
15
"so many" compared to where? Also: "European cities" is really a quite meaningless category for this kind of question.
– Martin Ba
20 hours ago
@MartinBa As I wrote in the comments to some answers, compared to Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. Singapore also has fewer. I meant Western Europe and Scandinavia in the body of the question but if the title is misleading, feel free to edit it.
– Blaszard
20 hours ago
@Blaszard this question is based upon your perception and needs some data, such as: homelessness rates in all the regions you mention; and a distinction between begging and homelessness. Some countries hide their social problems away in ghettos that tourists wouldn't visit. Others hide them by manipulating data. Right now this question is too broad and under-researched.
– Aaron F
2 hours ago
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1
I don't have an answer, but there is a related Quora post
– Bad_Bishop
22 hours ago
15
"so many" compared to where? Also: "European cities" is really a quite meaningless category for this kind of question.
– Martin Ba
20 hours ago
@MartinBa As I wrote in the comments to some answers, compared to Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. Singapore also has fewer. I meant Western Europe and Scandinavia in the body of the question but if the title is misleading, feel free to edit it.
– Blaszard
20 hours ago
@Blaszard this question is based upon your perception and needs some data, such as: homelessness rates in all the regions you mention; and a distinction between begging and homelessness. Some countries hide their social problems away in ghettos that tourists wouldn't visit. Others hide them by manipulating data. Right now this question is too broad and under-researched.
– Aaron F
2 hours ago
1
1
I don't have an answer, but there is a related Quora post
– Bad_Bishop
22 hours ago
I don't have an answer, but there is a related Quora post
– Bad_Bishop
22 hours ago
15
15
"so many" compared to where? Also: "European cities" is really a quite meaningless category for this kind of question.
– Martin Ba
20 hours ago
"so many" compared to where? Also: "European cities" is really a quite meaningless category for this kind of question.
– Martin Ba
20 hours ago
@MartinBa As I wrote in the comments to some answers, compared to Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. Singapore also has fewer. I meant Western Europe and Scandinavia in the body of the question but if the title is misleading, feel free to edit it.
– Blaszard
20 hours ago
@MartinBa As I wrote in the comments to some answers, compared to Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. Singapore also has fewer. I meant Western Europe and Scandinavia in the body of the question but if the title is misleading, feel free to edit it.
– Blaszard
20 hours ago
@Blaszard this question is based upon your perception and needs some data, such as: homelessness rates in all the regions you mention; and a distinction between begging and homelessness. Some countries hide their social problems away in ghettos that tourists wouldn't visit. Others hide them by manipulating data. Right now this question is too broad and under-researched.
– Aaron F
2 hours ago
@Blaszard this question is based upon your perception and needs some data, such as: homelessness rates in all the regions you mention; and a distinction between begging and homelessness. Some countries hide their social problems away in ghettos that tourists wouldn't visit. Others hide them by manipulating data. Right now this question is too broad and under-researched.
– Aaron F
2 hours ago
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17 Answers
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I also wondered why there are homeless people in my home-country Germany even though the social safety system is legally obligated to pay the rent for people who can not afford to do so. In this case, the rent is paid directly by the municipal government to the landlord, so there is no way to misappropriate those funds. So I did some research regarding the reasons for homelessness in Germany.
Most sources are obviously in German, so please excuse that I am not able to provide any good English sources. This answer is based on an articles by Nothilfe Mensch e. V., (a charity organization which helps homeless people), an article by the Diakonie (a church-based charity organization) and an article by Brand Eins (an economic magazine).
These sources point out that there are many ways to become homeless, but there is one path to homelessness which seems quite typical:
- A person gets into a troubling situation in their life. Addictions, job loss, death or destroyed relationships with loved ones, etc. Due to lack of help from their social surrounding, they are unable to cope with their situation. They develop mental health problems which then cause even more of the above problems and eventually the accumulation of debt.
- They don't pay their rent anymore, so the landlord tries to get them evicted.
- The eviction is successful and the person gets thrown out of their apartment. They neither have any people who can take them in temporarily, nor the money to pay for a hotel. So they have to sleep on the street.
- Due to the severe lack of housing in urban areas, landlords can choose their tenants freely. The homeless people are competing with others who seem much more financially and psychologically stable. So they have no chance to find a new apartment.
Part of the eviction process is that the landlord needs to notify the social security bureau, who then send a letter to the tenant and inform them about what help they are entitled to. A "normal" person would then make an appointment with the bureau and file a request to have them pay the rent. But some people apparently don't do this. Why?
Remember that we are talking about people with severe mental health problems here who are completely overwhelmed by their life situation. In order to obtain help from the social security bureau, they need to open that letter and reply to it. A letter which is usually found among unpayable invoices, legal threats and other problems they really can not deal with right now. In order to receive the help from the state they are legally entitled to, they actually need to become active and request it. This can be a difficult barrier for some people.
49
This. Sleeping on the street is way easier than dealing with the bureaucracy needed in order to get help.
– Guntram Blohm
19 hours ago
29
@GuntramBlohm To be fair, the process isn't actually that difficult to follow if you are a well-organized, mentally stable, literate person. But it can be difficult when you are neither of these things.
– Philipp♦
15 hours ago
11
@Philipp That is not being "fair" in any sense of the word, it is explaining why it is a bad system - because most people would know that the ones who need the help are usually the ones who have troubles in those areas.
– mathreadler
12 hours ago
1
It's actually a common trend in all of welfare (in Switzerland) that it is made complicated to access. Say a student who is basically poor by choice (study now, make money later) probably won't have a problem receiving health care subsidies a year late, they'll have some private safety net and savings. For someone who is actually in a bad position in life, it will probably be too late.
– Nobody
5 hours ago
8
Well, while true, this omits the work done by the officials. This is not only about form letters. They do try to contact the persons in trouble but not all actually want to accept help, in part because that also means they have to accept the dire situation they have landed in..
– TaW
4 hours ago
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The (homeless) beggars are likely to congregate whey they are most visible and likely to be successful at begging. Their visibility to tourists probably depends more on how willing the police is willing to crack down on them.
And your impressions of prevalence don't seem backed by data, at least before the financial crisis of 2008.
From "Homelessness in Europe and the United States:
A Comparison of Prevalence and Public Opinion (2007)":
Random samples of 250–435 adults were interviewed by telephone in five different
nations (N = 1,546): Belgium, Germany, Italy, the UK, and the United States. The
interview included questions on respondent attitudes, knowledge, and opinions
regarding homelessness; respondents’ own personal experiences with homelessness
and homeless people; and demographic characteristics of the respondents.
The highest rates for lifetime literal homelessness were found in the UK (7.7%)
and United States (6.2%), with the lowest rate in Germany (2.4%), and intermediate
rates in Italy (4.0%) and Belgium (3.4%). Less compassionate attitudes
toward the homeless were also found on many dimensions in the United States and
the UK. Possible explanations of these findings, drawn from various theoretical
perspectives, and policy implications are provided.
"Testing a Typology of Homelessness Across Welfare Regimes: Shelter Use in Denmark and the USA" (2015)
This article compares patterns of homeless shelter use in Denmark and the USA. Combining data from homeless shelters in Denmark with population registers, we find that the prevalence of shelter use is substantially lower in Denmark than in the USA. A cluster analysis of shelter stays identifies three types of users similar to findings from US research: the transitionally, episodically and chronically homeless. However, the transitionally homeless in Denmark have a higher tendency of suffering from mental illness and substance abuse than the transitionally homeless in the USA. The results support Stephens and Fitzpatrick' hypothesis that countries with more extensive welfare systems and lower levels of poverty have lower levels of homelessness, mainly amongst those with complex support needs, whereas in countries with less extensive welfare systems homelessness affects broader groups and is more widely associated with poverty and housing affordability problems.
It might have gotten worse in Greece.
I couldn't find stats on how many beggars are locals and how many intra-EU/EEA "migrants", but clearly the large difference in economic development between the Eastern EU (Romania, Bulgaria etc.) seem to play a role in the beggars you see in Paris or in Oslo.
At least according to one (2011) Swiss news article:
There is no national legislation on begging in Switzerland. It is left to the cantons and communes to deal with the problem.
The recent call for a ban in Lausanne follows similar moves in other parts of French-speaking Switzerland, such as Geneva, Vevey, Montreux, Renens and ten communes west of Lausanne, as well as cantons Fribourg and Neuchâtel. Other locations, such as Aigle, Yverdon and Pully, are also considering bans.
Geneva introduced a ban in February 2008 but groups of Roma beggars are still visible on its streets, despite several police round-ups and regular controls. It is estimated that the number of 200 previously present in front of stores and banks may have been cut by half.
Older begging bans are also in place in Basel, Zurich and Lucerne.
“Numbers clearly increased following the introduction of Schengen [25-country passport-free travel zone], but it’s still a small problem compared with Zurich and Bern,†said Klaus Mannhart, spokesman for the Basel City police.
Bern, meanwhile, has no ban against begging. But in June 2009 the police, along with Romanian and Bern city authorities launched a programme named “Agora†to crack down on organised gangs from eastern Europe targeting the city.
After almost 700 police checks - including 79 on children – totalling 2,000 working hours, Agora is considered a great success, said Bern aliens police chief Alexander Ott.
“We hardly have any more beggars; they say Bern and Switzerland – no more.â€Â
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@Blaszard, one has to take care of the definitions with that. A 20-something who has to return to the parent's home for lack of other shelter would be homeless in some statistics -- without a home, and not by choice.
– o.m.
22 hours ago
29
What is always hidden is that the major cause of lifetime homelessness is mental illness or special needs. It is not (for a majority of this population) unfair wages or unfair welfare. Those who are homeless will have trouble registering or even caring that they should register
– Frank Cedeno
22 hours ago
2
In Berlin, most homeless people that are highly visible are from the Balkan or eastern Europe. Also, Asia is much different due to strong ideas of family honour etc., i.e. cultural differences.
– Philip Klöcking
20 hours ago
15
@Blaszard In my experience, homeless people in developed Asian countries tend to be ejected from the society and form sub-urbs somewhere outside of the cities. They don't beg because they'd be prosecuted, and it would be too much of a shame. In Europe, begging isn't seen as a crime that much - and not as frowned upon.
– Narusan
20 hours ago
3
Related paper says 25,296 homeless in Japan in 2003 (population 127.7M => ~0.02%). Paper suggests income homogeneity (via GINI coefficient) and then says "After the income distribution leveled out (Tachibanaki, 1998), public begging disappeared." though I'm not sure about the correlation. Paper also points out begging is illegal, and that homeless tend to form isolated communities. More in A Comparative Study of Homelessness in the United Kingdom and Japan
– BurnsBA
19 hours ago
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These answers are specifically for Sweden, which you mention in your question, but at least some of it may also apply in other countries:
- You need to be a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit to have access to most parts of the Swedish welfare system. Most people begging on the streets in Sweden are from EU countries in southeastern Europe. EU citizens have the right to live in any part of the EU as long as they can support themselves. But they only have access to the welfare system in their home country. Before Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU in 2007, begging on the streets was a quite uncommon sight in Sweden.
- If you are a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit, the government can help you get an apartment if you are homeless, and pay for your rent if you have no means to pay for it yourself. But you still need to be able to keep the apartment, which requires you to keep the apartment in an acceptable condition and to behave acceptably towards your surrounding. Many homeless people who would have access to the welfare system suffer from addiction, mental illness, or a combination of both, which can make this difficult. The government can offer you support in dealing with those issues, but they cannot force you to stay sober or seek treatment.
- There are many homeless shelters, run by both local governments and charities, that offer homeless people a meal, a shower and a bed for the night, but you generally need to be sober and behave acceptably while you are there. This may seem like an easy thing for you and me, but if your life is a wreck and you are struggling with addiction and/or mental illness it may not be so easy.
I'm not saying that I think these people deserve the situation they are in or that they only have themselves to blame. I'm merely pointing out that even the Swedish safety net has holes in it that you can fall through.
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4
Your first point is likely the important factor. I remember that before Bulgaria and Romania joined, I could count the people in the streets on one hand.
– pipe
7 hours ago
2
Spot on for Norway as well. We are not part of the EU, but have signed agreements with them about open borders.
– Stig Hemmer
6 hours ago
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@pipe Yes, the first point is the probably the dominant factor for people begging on the streets. But maybe not for homelessness.
– jkej
5 hours ago
1
On more factor specific to sweden, which you might consider including in your answer: Psychiatric care was reformed in the mid nineties resulting in more people with mental issues living on their own (instead of institutions). Some of them fail to handle that, ending up evicted.
– Guran
4 hours ago
As to psychiatric care reform in Sweden: Before the reform persons could, and was, taken into psychiatric hospitals against their expressed will. The history includes people that were locked up for life, sedated with strong medicines and, historically, sterilized. This was declared against human rights -- a person should not in general be forced to accept treatment (unless dangerous to other persons). A person in Sweden is allowed to be homeless (beeing homeless up to around mid 1900-s used to be punishable with prison).
– ghellquist
1 hour ago
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Typical welfare is modeled to be a stop-gap type of thing. So, if you lose your job and can't get another for six months, then the govt comes along and won't let you starve. It is usually modeled on the idea that the people involved are generally reasonable, and desire to do something for themselves. The usual thing is a quite gentle intervention.
The causes of homelessness are varied. It is very difficult to be sure you understand how and why any given person is such, especially just by looking at them. Just a few examples: Mental health issues, drug/alcohol abuse, various issues of abuse and conflict in the home, for example teens being forced out or abandoning home.
These issues can be both causes, and they can contribute to staying homeless when somebody is homeless for some other reason. The homeless guy may use alcohol to simply get through a night, which will lower him more and make getting back in a home harder.
This website says Schizophrenia may be as high as 20% of homeless.
https://endhomelessness.org/new-study-offers-hope-for-homeless-people-with-schizophrenia/
This website claims alcohol is 38%, and other drugs are 26%.
https://www.michaelshouse.com/drug-abuse/study-homelessness-addiction/
There are many other issues. Such things are often quite resistant to what would you would call gentle intervention. For example, a hard core drug abuser is not going to be kept off the street by handing him rent and food money. He'll just spend it on drugs, and be back on the street. If you find a teen who has run away from abusive parents, giving him money won't solve the abusive parent situation. Though it may get him into a crappy apartment.
It may be possible to intervene in such cases. But it will require vastly more than just handing them money. In some cases, even the full attention of a professional psychologist may be insufficient. Addiction, for example, can be very resistant to change.
So, for some group of people, it will be the case that you can't get them off the street unless you are prepared to physically grab them and stick them in some kind of therapy. And you will need to physically keep them there until it makes some difference. Most western nations find such forcible institutionalization distasteful. So those folks tend to wind up on the street.
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Generalizing over all of Europe is difficult. With this caveat:
- There are always people who prefer living on the street to living in a government-sponsored homeless shelter (which is not a nice place by any stretch of the imagination). Many of them are in bad health, but only extreme cases are sent to hospital against their expressed will. (Alone this does not explain the numbers.)
- Some people do not live on the street, but they have no regular job and they augment various welfare payments by begging and similar activities.
- In Germany there are mandatory deposits on many drinks containers (even if they are not reuseable). Collecting bottles in the right places can get a halfway decent hourly rate if nobody else went there before.
- Also in Germany, in big cities there are newspapers written and sold by homeless. The sellers will usually accept cash donations in addition to sales.
- Some of the beggars in north-western Europe come from south-eastern Europe. As EU citizens they can travel. The percentages vary from place to place. There is still a sharp imbalance in wealth.
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Thanks for the answer but 1 and 2 are also true in other countries. So it must be that the disproportionate rate of European homeless prefer to live on streets than other countries (most notably Japan and South Korea, that have lower social security yet fewer homeless).
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
2
As to 3, are EU citizens from other countries not able to access to the same social security as citizens of the countries do?
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
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@Blaszard: You might be confusing homeless with begging. The Roma migrants might have a home somewhere in Eastern EU. And yes, access to local welfare has been curtailed across the EU precisely due to this phenomenon. dw.com/en/… Working in Romania or Bulgaria pays less than being unemployed in Germany. Japan or South Korea don't have this level of inequality (i.e. EU-wide) within their borders.
– Fizz
21 hours ago
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@Blaszard, that depends. Generally, if they have been workers for a significant time, then yes. If they just arrived and never worked, then no.
– o.m.
21 hours ago
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@Blaszard Could you back up the assertion that Japan and Korea have lower homeless levels? Having lived in Japan, I saw many homeless people. They were usually just evicted from visible places.
– BlackThorn
17 hours ago
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One issue is that homelessness is not caused by poverty. It is more accurate to say that homelessness causes poverty. Homelessness is primarily a mental health problem. People can't handle the pressures of their lives, so they react by abandoning them. I sometimes call this small or lesser suicide. They don't kill themselves, but they destroy parts of their lives.
Just to be clear, I'm using "mental health" broadly here. I'm including drug addiction, nervous breakdowns, and traditional insanity under mental health.
In some cases, the initial mental health problem might be temporary. If the person gets interventionist help, that person might recover and return to behavior within normal parameters. In other cases, the problem is more serious. For example, drug addicts trade their cars for drugs and then can't return to their apartments or go to work. Or someone may stop taking prescription medication and undergo a psychotic break.
It is optimistic to think that if we just come up with better support, we can fix homelessness. Homelessness is hard in ways that go far past the simple lack of home. We would need (but do not have) solutions to:
- People preferring drugs over anything else.
- People not taking their prescribed medication.
- People reacting to setbacks by abandoning parts of their lives and rejecting help.
That's three separate causes for homelessness, and we don't have particularly good solutions to any of them. If offered help, they may well refuse it. The first group won't give up drugs in exchange for help. The second group won't take drugs in exchange for help. The third group just doesn't believe in help. It's very hard to help people who will not work with the people trying to help them.
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Homeless vs. Beggars
Homeless people aren't very visible. Police chase them away from the places where tourists might see them. They end up somewhere hidden.
Beggars on the other hand, are very visible. Their very job puts them in places tourists and other rich people go. Police might try to chase them away, but they come back. And the police doesn't want tourists seeing anything that might look like police brutality, so they end up letting them stay.
This means that in countries where begging is legal, it is a very visible problem. In countries where it is not legal, the police can do more to hide the problem.
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An answer for Austria:
Different groups of beggars and homeless
The Armutskonferenz has a summary of a presentation about beggers which is centered on Austria and from 2014 in German. I did not yet find any peer-reviewed primary sources, but I have no reason to doubt the integrity of the organization and the author.
It lists five groups of beggers (section 3.3):
Travelling beggars: street musicians etc. My interpretation: They choose a life as a poor traveller over a (potentially poor) life in their home country.- Beggars from some parts of Eastern Europe. My interpretation: They come for some weeks/month to Austria to beg. They have no perspective in their home country. They come to Austria, lead a very simply life while they are here and then come back to their home country, where the might have a family to support. Groups of people from the same region travel together and organize their begging (organized begging ≠criminal begging).
Classical homeless (Austrian) people. See the answeres by puppetsock and Phillip.- People who actually receive social benefits, but like to earn some extra money.
- Street Corner Societies and Punks
The welfare system does not cover all cases
- NGOs receive support from the government and the city for their work, but sometimes this means they are not allowed to offer the supported facility to non-EU citizens.
Benefits of the social system do not apply to non-residences of Vienna/Austria: EU-citicens are allowed to travel freely in the EU, but without work they cannot easily become residents of another country.
Government-supported facilities where homeless can sleep are not attractive to all homeless. An example is the Gruft in Vienna (run by an NGO, but receives money from the city):
- It is a big hall where homeless sleep on the floor in sleeping bags, next to each other. Other people snoring can make sleeping difficult, so many homeless prefer to sleep outside during summer.
- Alcohol and dogs are not allowed inside. This rules out the Gruft for some homeless.
Nobody has to die from hunger
- There are soup kitchens which still manage to provide enough food for all people who fall in line. But people might prefer to beg for money so they can buy the food they like instead of eating soup every day.
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Seems to be from 2014, is it a typo or wrong source?
– mathreadler
3 hours ago
Nobody has to die from hunger. That's true. But every winter homeless people freeze to death in Vienna. (Although strictly speaking, they don't have to, they just do.) One big reason for homelessness that I keep hearing about (though I have no sources to back it up) in Austria is divorce. Alimony payments kan be high enough to prevent people from being able to afford a flat in Vienna. (This might be one factor why homeless people are predominantly male.)
– sgf
2 hours ago
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(This answer is from a UK perspective.)
One cause of people being homeless is a disparity between housing costs and locally available wages. There are some parts of the country where the number of low-paid jobs available greatly outstrips the number of affordable houses (either rental or mortgage-wise) available in the vicinity. (See, for example, this article.)
Because these people are in full-time employment, they may not qualify for many (or any) welfare benefits. Their choices are then:
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can afford the increased travel expenses.
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can find a job there that will pay enough for their housing.
- Live on the streets while trying to build up enough saving to afford somewhere to live.
The flip-side to this is, of course, other areas of the country where the housing is cheap, but the employment prospects dire – so people can afford a residence, but it may be paid for by either welfare benefits or begging.
Finally: Minimum wage in the UK for a 9–5 job, Monday to Friday is about £275. If you find it is possible to earn more than that in the same amount of time by begging, then you may decide that it make more financial sense to do so.
If you can make more than £375 per week by begging, then you're earning more than an EU-mandated 48-hour maximum working week does at minimum wage – at least one person has made over £500 per day by begging.
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Perhaps worth mentioning that certain demographics are more likely to become homeless in the UK, including LGBT+, and a disproportionate number of former military personnel. "Did you know that at least 10% of the UK homeless population is made up of ex-forces personnel?"
– inappropriateCode
2 hours ago
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Eradicating homelessness would be great, but don't assume that a high-tax welfare system is not achieving great things because it is failing to achieve that one goal.
Speaking for the UK, most people here have never heard the term "medical bankruptcy" for example.
Our welfare systems are under great strain because of an ageing population and slow economic growth, but still disabled people get some help (not enough), as do out-of-work people, the long-term sick, etc. It's far from perfect but also far better than nothing.
2
People in Europe would be far worse off, if they hadn't built their welfare systems. For me as Austrian citizen, reading stories on the US healthcare system is at times simply apalling. If I think back on the injuries and sicknesses that have befallen me and my family over the time, "medical bankruptcy" and severe harm, if not premature death, would have been a certainty in a less well-built wellfare state. If you're dead, lower taxes mean zilch.
– Dohn Joe
3 hours ago
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Although the Asian countries you listed (South Korea, Japan, Hongkong) are among the countries with the least homeless population, the European countries also make it to the top of the list.
Thus, it seems to be more a matter of appearance than an actual disparity in the homeless population. In my country (Austria) there are certain politicians who try to ban begging in certain areas of the cities, e.g. central squares, shopping streets.
A disparity in how the society in various countries deals with homeless people and beggars, a beggar isn't necessarily homeless, might also explain a disparity in your observations.
In many European countries/cities there are street-newspapers, which are made and sold by people that struggle economically, i.e. not only homeless people but also people who live from social benefits and participate to earn a little extra. In such newspapers one often finds the biography of some participants.
There I read multiple times of people preferring to live on the streets and not in a shelter, due to the shelter's house-rules. Some shelters don't allow dogs, have separate dormitories for men and women, or don't allow alcohol on its premises. Thus, if you have a dog, a spouse, or an alcohol addiction, there are reasons to remain on the street.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
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This is indeed a problem that has been increasing in recent years, and I can think of several reasons:
The traditional welfare systems have often been a bit too ambitious and therefore too expensive to maintain. The fundamental problem, I suspect, is that it can be very difficult to delimit what genuine needs should be covered by welfare, and politicians are understandably reluctant to take away help that is needed - should you stop caring for the elderly, or cancer patients, or ....? Instead they have tended to make benefits less accessible, by adding bureaucracy. This hits those hardest, who are most vulnerable, because they simply don't have the resources to handle it. These are the genuine homeless.
The other major factor, I believe, is organised crime: many of the beggars are, in effect, slaves, who have been smuggled in by people traffickers, and who are placed in strategic places by their owners; I see this happening myself from time to time - they are dropped off in the morning, hand over their takings some time during the day, and are picked up in the evening.
It is my belief, if you will forgive my rant, that the main reason why this is happening, is that governments in Europe have widely adopted what is loosely called "neo-liberalism", under which services, which traditionally were provided by the state, are now increasingly being privatised. This is convenient for the politicians - they can claim that this saves money, because private companies are more efficient, and when the services fail, it is no longer their responsibility.
@jeancallisti I'm not sure I understand your comment - which are side effects of what, exactly?
– j4nd3r53n
59 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
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Being in Germany, and having worked with such people during civil service:
In most cases, and exceptions notwithstanding, I'd say it is not related to taxes, welfare or any other ("external") reason at all.
The welfare system is good, but some people are beyond it. There are people who are absolutely not capable to even claim the extensive free help they are entitled to. They might not be able to understand their situation (due to, lacking a better word, inadequate intelligence; or communication skills; or other reasons). Or they may understand it, but their character might be such that they cannot/will not accept any kind of help. Maybe they are by nature distrustful and view anybody with some kind of authority, even if it is just a social worker, as an enemy.
I have also, in the distant past, worked with or at least witnessed people living in social housing. Let me assure you, that kind of living is not fun at all. It's not like they are just like everybody else, just without going to work. They live absolutely miserably; and everybody I met was in a permanent state of deep clinical depression (which might be biased by me having worked for a social organization caring for such people, obviously). Sure, there may be the occasional freeloader living a grand life while abusing the system, but I'd say the type of beggars you see on the street are not in that category.
Obviously another exception would be organized or professional beggars; I know little about them, i.e., if it is worthwhile, and if you get more money begging than from welfare. There may also be other aspects involved (pimping, pressure from family or "friends"...).
add a comment |Â
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0
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Two reasons :
- "New" homeless. The number of unemployed people (or people with very low income) is growing extremely fast since the 2008 stock market krach. So the social welfare cannot keep up (by "social welfare" I mean the branch in charge of finding everyone an affordable home). Some people might eventually get access to their welfare rights, but those are delivered too slowly while the number of requests grows too fast. In the meantime, those people have to remain on the streets. There are also more and more refugees who are not in a "temporary" state (they have no chance of ever going back home) but fail to obtain the refugee status. So they just stay on the streets, with no social welfare rights.
- Severe entrance barrier. Because the number of requests keeps growing and most European states are switching faster to private insurance and welfare systems, the remaining public welfare has been torn apart in the last 30 years by more and more insane new rules and heavy paperwork. It's the vicious circle of : "we don't have much resources to provide so let's spend all the resources into controlling that the resources are well spent". That creates a maze of paperwork for homeless people who are already fragile. A portion of them just give up and let themselves slide down onto the street life. That's what gives traction to the sort of speech "they're homeless because they want to".
add a comment |Â
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It's worth considering that homeless people aren't usually represented politically. This makes them invisible to the nation's decision makers, who are influenced by people who can afford to bother them. Without a physical address applying political pressure becomes much more difficult. Welfare state or not, the homeless are not able to petition government for support.
While there have always been plenty of poor people, the fact they have a home and/or job helps them acquire political representation, which helps them influence government in their favour. Either personal communication with their local politician via letters, emails, telephone, or organisational help via unions and other charities.
This means that when the nation goes through periods of increased poverty, government becomes aware of it through feedback from their constituents and political movements, and there's a often a considerable weight of numbers behind such feedback. This helps those groups which have petitioned government get help: importantly, not everyone benefits. The homeless do not have the ability to be politically demanding.
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
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What a lot of people do not realise is that taxes in Europe are not very high, compared to the services they provide. In fact, it may be argued they are much higher in the United States, once the cost for health insurance, retirement, lunches, etc. are included.
When people compare taxation, usually it is done by aggregate, how much taxes are paid in compared to the GDP, etc. This approach fails to account for what services are provided. Health insurance is not considered a tax in the US, and it is usually not included. Same goes or 401K contributions, etc.
Therefore, it is not true that in Europe people pay more taxes, but expenses that are not considered taxes in the US are taxes in Europe. However, this does not mean there is much more money available for the homeless, simply that I do not need to take a 401K or similar, because the "higher" taxes will pay for my retirement (but not necessarily for a home for an unemployed).
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
If you read carefully my answer you would have understood it does. The premise is: Europe has high taxes, why so many homeless? The answer: the premise is false, taxes are not high.
– user
2 hours ago
1
But that's not actually what the question is about. The question is why there are homeless people in Europe.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
Another answer is that the people are only appearing to be homeless. In Manchester UK I observed many people apparently begging, but frequently in extended discussions with a pair of young and physically-fit men (a different pair in each case).
Clearly the 'beggar' and the men knew one another well and had plenty to discuss, despite appearing to occupy very distinct social groups.
I surmise that the beggars are part of some sort of street operation, probably criminal. A local suggested to me that it was drug distribution, but that would be risky, as the beggars are vulnerable to random searches by the police.
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5
Welcome to Politics.SE! Unfortunately, I'm not sure your gut feeling about a few homeless guys in one city really answers the question about homeless people across the entirety of Europe. (FWIW, from my own interactions with homeless people, they're more likely to be users than dealers.)
– F1Krazy
7 hours ago
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I also wondered why there are homeless people in my home-country Germany even though the social safety system is legally obligated to pay the rent for people who can not afford to do so. In this case, the rent is paid directly by the municipal government to the landlord, so there is no way to misappropriate those funds. So I did some research regarding the reasons for homelessness in Germany.
Most sources are obviously in German, so please excuse that I am not able to provide any good English sources. This answer is based on an articles by Nothilfe Mensch e. V., (a charity organization which helps homeless people), an article by the Diakonie (a church-based charity organization) and an article by Brand Eins (an economic magazine).
These sources point out that there are many ways to become homeless, but there is one path to homelessness which seems quite typical:
- A person gets into a troubling situation in their life. Addictions, job loss, death or destroyed relationships with loved ones, etc. Due to lack of help from their social surrounding, they are unable to cope with their situation. They develop mental health problems which then cause even more of the above problems and eventually the accumulation of debt.
- They don't pay their rent anymore, so the landlord tries to get them evicted.
- The eviction is successful and the person gets thrown out of their apartment. They neither have any people who can take them in temporarily, nor the money to pay for a hotel. So they have to sleep on the street.
- Due to the severe lack of housing in urban areas, landlords can choose their tenants freely. The homeless people are competing with others who seem much more financially and psychologically stable. So they have no chance to find a new apartment.
Part of the eviction process is that the landlord needs to notify the social security bureau, who then send a letter to the tenant and inform them about what help they are entitled to. A "normal" person would then make an appointment with the bureau and file a request to have them pay the rent. But some people apparently don't do this. Why?
Remember that we are talking about people with severe mental health problems here who are completely overwhelmed by their life situation. In order to obtain help from the social security bureau, they need to open that letter and reply to it. A letter which is usually found among unpayable invoices, legal threats and other problems they really can not deal with right now. In order to receive the help from the state they are legally entitled to, they actually need to become active and request it. This can be a difficult barrier for some people.
49
This. Sleeping on the street is way easier than dealing with the bureaucracy needed in order to get help.
– Guntram Blohm
19 hours ago
29
@GuntramBlohm To be fair, the process isn't actually that difficult to follow if you are a well-organized, mentally stable, literate person. But it can be difficult when you are neither of these things.
– Philipp♦
15 hours ago
11
@Philipp That is not being "fair" in any sense of the word, it is explaining why it is a bad system - because most people would know that the ones who need the help are usually the ones who have troubles in those areas.
– mathreadler
12 hours ago
1
It's actually a common trend in all of welfare (in Switzerland) that it is made complicated to access. Say a student who is basically poor by choice (study now, make money later) probably won't have a problem receiving health care subsidies a year late, they'll have some private safety net and savings. For someone who is actually in a bad position in life, it will probably be too late.
– Nobody
5 hours ago
8
Well, while true, this omits the work done by the officials. This is not only about form letters. They do try to contact the persons in trouble but not all actually want to accept help, in part because that also means they have to accept the dire situation they have landed in..
– TaW
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
99
down vote
I also wondered why there are homeless people in my home-country Germany even though the social safety system is legally obligated to pay the rent for people who can not afford to do so. In this case, the rent is paid directly by the municipal government to the landlord, so there is no way to misappropriate those funds. So I did some research regarding the reasons for homelessness in Germany.
Most sources are obviously in German, so please excuse that I am not able to provide any good English sources. This answer is based on an articles by Nothilfe Mensch e. V., (a charity organization which helps homeless people), an article by the Diakonie (a church-based charity organization) and an article by Brand Eins (an economic magazine).
These sources point out that there are many ways to become homeless, but there is one path to homelessness which seems quite typical:
- A person gets into a troubling situation in their life. Addictions, job loss, death or destroyed relationships with loved ones, etc. Due to lack of help from their social surrounding, they are unable to cope with their situation. They develop mental health problems which then cause even more of the above problems and eventually the accumulation of debt.
- They don't pay their rent anymore, so the landlord tries to get them evicted.
- The eviction is successful and the person gets thrown out of their apartment. They neither have any people who can take them in temporarily, nor the money to pay for a hotel. So they have to sleep on the street.
- Due to the severe lack of housing in urban areas, landlords can choose their tenants freely. The homeless people are competing with others who seem much more financially and psychologically stable. So they have no chance to find a new apartment.
Part of the eviction process is that the landlord needs to notify the social security bureau, who then send a letter to the tenant and inform them about what help they are entitled to. A "normal" person would then make an appointment with the bureau and file a request to have them pay the rent. But some people apparently don't do this. Why?
Remember that we are talking about people with severe mental health problems here who are completely overwhelmed by their life situation. In order to obtain help from the social security bureau, they need to open that letter and reply to it. A letter which is usually found among unpayable invoices, legal threats and other problems they really can not deal with right now. In order to receive the help from the state they are legally entitled to, they actually need to become active and request it. This can be a difficult barrier for some people.
49
This. Sleeping on the street is way easier than dealing with the bureaucracy needed in order to get help.
– Guntram Blohm
19 hours ago
29
@GuntramBlohm To be fair, the process isn't actually that difficult to follow if you are a well-organized, mentally stable, literate person. But it can be difficult when you are neither of these things.
– Philipp♦
15 hours ago
11
@Philipp That is not being "fair" in any sense of the word, it is explaining why it is a bad system - because most people would know that the ones who need the help are usually the ones who have troubles in those areas.
– mathreadler
12 hours ago
1
It's actually a common trend in all of welfare (in Switzerland) that it is made complicated to access. Say a student who is basically poor by choice (study now, make money later) probably won't have a problem receiving health care subsidies a year late, they'll have some private safety net and savings. For someone who is actually in a bad position in life, it will probably be too late.
– Nobody
5 hours ago
8
Well, while true, this omits the work done by the officials. This is not only about form letters. They do try to contact the persons in trouble but not all actually want to accept help, in part because that also means they have to accept the dire situation they have landed in..
– TaW
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
99
down vote
up vote
99
down vote
I also wondered why there are homeless people in my home-country Germany even though the social safety system is legally obligated to pay the rent for people who can not afford to do so. In this case, the rent is paid directly by the municipal government to the landlord, so there is no way to misappropriate those funds. So I did some research regarding the reasons for homelessness in Germany.
Most sources are obviously in German, so please excuse that I am not able to provide any good English sources. This answer is based on an articles by Nothilfe Mensch e. V., (a charity organization which helps homeless people), an article by the Diakonie (a church-based charity organization) and an article by Brand Eins (an economic magazine).
These sources point out that there are many ways to become homeless, but there is one path to homelessness which seems quite typical:
- A person gets into a troubling situation in their life. Addictions, job loss, death or destroyed relationships with loved ones, etc. Due to lack of help from their social surrounding, they are unable to cope with their situation. They develop mental health problems which then cause even more of the above problems and eventually the accumulation of debt.
- They don't pay their rent anymore, so the landlord tries to get them evicted.
- The eviction is successful and the person gets thrown out of their apartment. They neither have any people who can take them in temporarily, nor the money to pay for a hotel. So they have to sleep on the street.
- Due to the severe lack of housing in urban areas, landlords can choose their tenants freely. The homeless people are competing with others who seem much more financially and psychologically stable. So they have no chance to find a new apartment.
Part of the eviction process is that the landlord needs to notify the social security bureau, who then send a letter to the tenant and inform them about what help they are entitled to. A "normal" person would then make an appointment with the bureau and file a request to have them pay the rent. But some people apparently don't do this. Why?
Remember that we are talking about people with severe mental health problems here who are completely overwhelmed by their life situation. In order to obtain help from the social security bureau, they need to open that letter and reply to it. A letter which is usually found among unpayable invoices, legal threats and other problems they really can not deal with right now. In order to receive the help from the state they are legally entitled to, they actually need to become active and request it. This can be a difficult barrier for some people.
I also wondered why there are homeless people in my home-country Germany even though the social safety system is legally obligated to pay the rent for people who can not afford to do so. In this case, the rent is paid directly by the municipal government to the landlord, so there is no way to misappropriate those funds. So I did some research regarding the reasons for homelessness in Germany.
Most sources are obviously in German, so please excuse that I am not able to provide any good English sources. This answer is based on an articles by Nothilfe Mensch e. V., (a charity organization which helps homeless people), an article by the Diakonie (a church-based charity organization) and an article by Brand Eins (an economic magazine).
These sources point out that there are many ways to become homeless, but there is one path to homelessness which seems quite typical:
- A person gets into a troubling situation in their life. Addictions, job loss, death or destroyed relationships with loved ones, etc. Due to lack of help from their social surrounding, they are unable to cope with their situation. They develop mental health problems which then cause even more of the above problems and eventually the accumulation of debt.
- They don't pay their rent anymore, so the landlord tries to get them evicted.
- The eviction is successful and the person gets thrown out of their apartment. They neither have any people who can take them in temporarily, nor the money to pay for a hotel. So they have to sleep on the street.
- Due to the severe lack of housing in urban areas, landlords can choose their tenants freely. The homeless people are competing with others who seem much more financially and psychologically stable. So they have no chance to find a new apartment.
Part of the eviction process is that the landlord needs to notify the social security bureau, who then send a letter to the tenant and inform them about what help they are entitled to. A "normal" person would then make an appointment with the bureau and file a request to have them pay the rent. But some people apparently don't do this. Why?
Remember that we are talking about people with severe mental health problems here who are completely overwhelmed by their life situation. In order to obtain help from the social security bureau, they need to open that letter and reply to it. A letter which is usually found among unpayable invoices, legal threats and other problems they really can not deal with right now. In order to receive the help from the state they are legally entitled to, they actually need to become active and request it. This can be a difficult barrier for some people.
edited 15 hours ago
answered 21 hours ago
Philipp♦
35.5k13108134
35.5k13108134
49
This. Sleeping on the street is way easier than dealing with the bureaucracy needed in order to get help.
– Guntram Blohm
19 hours ago
29
@GuntramBlohm To be fair, the process isn't actually that difficult to follow if you are a well-organized, mentally stable, literate person. But it can be difficult when you are neither of these things.
– Philipp♦
15 hours ago
11
@Philipp That is not being "fair" in any sense of the word, it is explaining why it is a bad system - because most people would know that the ones who need the help are usually the ones who have troubles in those areas.
– mathreadler
12 hours ago
1
It's actually a common trend in all of welfare (in Switzerland) that it is made complicated to access. Say a student who is basically poor by choice (study now, make money later) probably won't have a problem receiving health care subsidies a year late, they'll have some private safety net and savings. For someone who is actually in a bad position in life, it will probably be too late.
– Nobody
5 hours ago
8
Well, while true, this omits the work done by the officials. This is not only about form letters. They do try to contact the persons in trouble but not all actually want to accept help, in part because that also means they have to accept the dire situation they have landed in..
– TaW
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
49
This. Sleeping on the street is way easier than dealing with the bureaucracy needed in order to get help.
– Guntram Blohm
19 hours ago
29
@GuntramBlohm To be fair, the process isn't actually that difficult to follow if you are a well-organized, mentally stable, literate person. But it can be difficult when you are neither of these things.
– Philipp♦
15 hours ago
11
@Philipp That is not being "fair" in any sense of the word, it is explaining why it is a bad system - because most people would know that the ones who need the help are usually the ones who have troubles in those areas.
– mathreadler
12 hours ago
1
It's actually a common trend in all of welfare (in Switzerland) that it is made complicated to access. Say a student who is basically poor by choice (study now, make money later) probably won't have a problem receiving health care subsidies a year late, they'll have some private safety net and savings. For someone who is actually in a bad position in life, it will probably be too late.
– Nobody
5 hours ago
8
Well, while true, this omits the work done by the officials. This is not only about form letters. They do try to contact the persons in trouble but not all actually want to accept help, in part because that also means they have to accept the dire situation they have landed in..
– TaW
4 hours ago
49
49
This. Sleeping on the street is way easier than dealing with the bureaucracy needed in order to get help.
– Guntram Blohm
19 hours ago
This. Sleeping on the street is way easier than dealing with the bureaucracy needed in order to get help.
– Guntram Blohm
19 hours ago
29
29
@GuntramBlohm To be fair, the process isn't actually that difficult to follow if you are a well-organized, mentally stable, literate person. But it can be difficult when you are neither of these things.
– Philipp♦
15 hours ago
@GuntramBlohm To be fair, the process isn't actually that difficult to follow if you are a well-organized, mentally stable, literate person. But it can be difficult when you are neither of these things.
– Philipp♦
15 hours ago
11
11
@Philipp That is not being "fair" in any sense of the word, it is explaining why it is a bad system - because most people would know that the ones who need the help are usually the ones who have troubles in those areas.
– mathreadler
12 hours ago
@Philipp That is not being "fair" in any sense of the word, it is explaining why it is a bad system - because most people would know that the ones who need the help are usually the ones who have troubles in those areas.
– mathreadler
12 hours ago
1
1
It's actually a common trend in all of welfare (in Switzerland) that it is made complicated to access. Say a student who is basically poor by choice (study now, make money later) probably won't have a problem receiving health care subsidies a year late, they'll have some private safety net and savings. For someone who is actually in a bad position in life, it will probably be too late.
– Nobody
5 hours ago
It's actually a common trend in all of welfare (in Switzerland) that it is made complicated to access. Say a student who is basically poor by choice (study now, make money later) probably won't have a problem receiving health care subsidies a year late, they'll have some private safety net and savings. For someone who is actually in a bad position in life, it will probably be too late.
– Nobody
5 hours ago
8
8
Well, while true, this omits the work done by the officials. This is not only about form letters. They do try to contact the persons in trouble but not all actually want to accept help, in part because that also means they have to accept the dire situation they have landed in..
– TaW
4 hours ago
Well, while true, this omits the work done by the officials. This is not only about form letters. They do try to contact the persons in trouble but not all actually want to accept help, in part because that also means they have to accept the dire situation they have landed in..
– TaW
4 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
33
down vote
The (homeless) beggars are likely to congregate whey they are most visible and likely to be successful at begging. Their visibility to tourists probably depends more on how willing the police is willing to crack down on them.
And your impressions of prevalence don't seem backed by data, at least before the financial crisis of 2008.
From "Homelessness in Europe and the United States:
A Comparison of Prevalence and Public Opinion (2007)":
Random samples of 250–435 adults were interviewed by telephone in five different
nations (N = 1,546): Belgium, Germany, Italy, the UK, and the United States. The
interview included questions on respondent attitudes, knowledge, and opinions
regarding homelessness; respondents’ own personal experiences with homelessness
and homeless people; and demographic characteristics of the respondents.
The highest rates for lifetime literal homelessness were found in the UK (7.7%)
and United States (6.2%), with the lowest rate in Germany (2.4%), and intermediate
rates in Italy (4.0%) and Belgium (3.4%). Less compassionate attitudes
toward the homeless were also found on many dimensions in the United States and
the UK. Possible explanations of these findings, drawn from various theoretical
perspectives, and policy implications are provided.
"Testing a Typology of Homelessness Across Welfare Regimes: Shelter Use in Denmark and the USA" (2015)
This article compares patterns of homeless shelter use in Denmark and the USA. Combining data from homeless shelters in Denmark with population registers, we find that the prevalence of shelter use is substantially lower in Denmark than in the USA. A cluster analysis of shelter stays identifies three types of users similar to findings from US research: the transitionally, episodically and chronically homeless. However, the transitionally homeless in Denmark have a higher tendency of suffering from mental illness and substance abuse than the transitionally homeless in the USA. The results support Stephens and Fitzpatrick' hypothesis that countries with more extensive welfare systems and lower levels of poverty have lower levels of homelessness, mainly amongst those with complex support needs, whereas in countries with less extensive welfare systems homelessness affects broader groups and is more widely associated with poverty and housing affordability problems.
It might have gotten worse in Greece.
I couldn't find stats on how many beggars are locals and how many intra-EU/EEA "migrants", but clearly the large difference in economic development between the Eastern EU (Romania, Bulgaria etc.) seem to play a role in the beggars you see in Paris or in Oslo.
At least according to one (2011) Swiss news article:
There is no national legislation on begging in Switzerland. It is left to the cantons and communes to deal with the problem.
The recent call for a ban in Lausanne follows similar moves in other parts of French-speaking Switzerland, such as Geneva, Vevey, Montreux, Renens and ten communes west of Lausanne, as well as cantons Fribourg and Neuchâtel. Other locations, such as Aigle, Yverdon and Pully, are also considering bans.
Geneva introduced a ban in February 2008 but groups of Roma beggars are still visible on its streets, despite several police round-ups and regular controls. It is estimated that the number of 200 previously present in front of stores and banks may have been cut by half.
Older begging bans are also in place in Basel, Zurich and Lucerne.
“Numbers clearly increased following the introduction of Schengen [25-country passport-free travel zone], but it’s still a small problem compared with Zurich and Bern,†said Klaus Mannhart, spokesman for the Basel City police.
Bern, meanwhile, has no ban against begging. But in June 2009 the police, along with Romanian and Bern city authorities launched a programme named “Agora†to crack down on organised gangs from eastern Europe targeting the city.
After almost 700 police checks - including 79 on children – totalling 2,000 working hours, Agora is considered a great success, said Bern aliens police chief Alexander Ott.
“We hardly have any more beggars; they say Bern and Switzerland – no more.â€Â
3
@Blaszard, one has to take care of the definitions with that. A 20-something who has to return to the parent's home for lack of other shelter would be homeless in some statistics -- without a home, and not by choice.
– o.m.
22 hours ago
29
What is always hidden is that the major cause of lifetime homelessness is mental illness or special needs. It is not (for a majority of this population) unfair wages or unfair welfare. Those who are homeless will have trouble registering or even caring that they should register
– Frank Cedeno
22 hours ago
2
In Berlin, most homeless people that are highly visible are from the Balkan or eastern Europe. Also, Asia is much different due to strong ideas of family honour etc., i.e. cultural differences.
– Philip Klöcking
20 hours ago
15
@Blaszard In my experience, homeless people in developed Asian countries tend to be ejected from the society and form sub-urbs somewhere outside of the cities. They don't beg because they'd be prosecuted, and it would be too much of a shame. In Europe, begging isn't seen as a crime that much - and not as frowned upon.
– Narusan
20 hours ago
3
Related paper says 25,296 homeless in Japan in 2003 (population 127.7M => ~0.02%). Paper suggests income homogeneity (via GINI coefficient) and then says "After the income distribution leveled out (Tachibanaki, 1998), public begging disappeared." though I'm not sure about the correlation. Paper also points out begging is illegal, and that homeless tend to form isolated communities. More in A Comparative Study of Homelessness in the United Kingdom and Japan
– BurnsBA
19 hours ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
33
down vote
The (homeless) beggars are likely to congregate whey they are most visible and likely to be successful at begging. Their visibility to tourists probably depends more on how willing the police is willing to crack down on them.
And your impressions of prevalence don't seem backed by data, at least before the financial crisis of 2008.
From "Homelessness in Europe and the United States:
A Comparison of Prevalence and Public Opinion (2007)":
Random samples of 250–435 adults were interviewed by telephone in five different
nations (N = 1,546): Belgium, Germany, Italy, the UK, and the United States. The
interview included questions on respondent attitudes, knowledge, and opinions
regarding homelessness; respondents’ own personal experiences with homelessness
and homeless people; and demographic characteristics of the respondents.
The highest rates for lifetime literal homelessness were found in the UK (7.7%)
and United States (6.2%), with the lowest rate in Germany (2.4%), and intermediate
rates in Italy (4.0%) and Belgium (3.4%). Less compassionate attitudes
toward the homeless were also found on many dimensions in the United States and
the UK. Possible explanations of these findings, drawn from various theoretical
perspectives, and policy implications are provided.
"Testing a Typology of Homelessness Across Welfare Regimes: Shelter Use in Denmark and the USA" (2015)
This article compares patterns of homeless shelter use in Denmark and the USA. Combining data from homeless shelters in Denmark with population registers, we find that the prevalence of shelter use is substantially lower in Denmark than in the USA. A cluster analysis of shelter stays identifies three types of users similar to findings from US research: the transitionally, episodically and chronically homeless. However, the transitionally homeless in Denmark have a higher tendency of suffering from mental illness and substance abuse than the transitionally homeless in the USA. The results support Stephens and Fitzpatrick' hypothesis that countries with more extensive welfare systems and lower levels of poverty have lower levels of homelessness, mainly amongst those with complex support needs, whereas in countries with less extensive welfare systems homelessness affects broader groups and is more widely associated with poverty and housing affordability problems.
It might have gotten worse in Greece.
I couldn't find stats on how many beggars are locals and how many intra-EU/EEA "migrants", but clearly the large difference in economic development between the Eastern EU (Romania, Bulgaria etc.) seem to play a role in the beggars you see in Paris or in Oslo.
At least according to one (2011) Swiss news article:
There is no national legislation on begging in Switzerland. It is left to the cantons and communes to deal with the problem.
The recent call for a ban in Lausanne follows similar moves in other parts of French-speaking Switzerland, such as Geneva, Vevey, Montreux, Renens and ten communes west of Lausanne, as well as cantons Fribourg and Neuchâtel. Other locations, such as Aigle, Yverdon and Pully, are also considering bans.
Geneva introduced a ban in February 2008 but groups of Roma beggars are still visible on its streets, despite several police round-ups and regular controls. It is estimated that the number of 200 previously present in front of stores and banks may have been cut by half.
Older begging bans are also in place in Basel, Zurich and Lucerne.
“Numbers clearly increased following the introduction of Schengen [25-country passport-free travel zone], but it’s still a small problem compared with Zurich and Bern,†said Klaus Mannhart, spokesman for the Basel City police.
Bern, meanwhile, has no ban against begging. But in June 2009 the police, along with Romanian and Bern city authorities launched a programme named “Agora†to crack down on organised gangs from eastern Europe targeting the city.
After almost 700 police checks - including 79 on children – totalling 2,000 working hours, Agora is considered a great success, said Bern aliens police chief Alexander Ott.
“We hardly have any more beggars; they say Bern and Switzerland – no more.â€Â
3
@Blaszard, one has to take care of the definitions with that. A 20-something who has to return to the parent's home for lack of other shelter would be homeless in some statistics -- without a home, and not by choice.
– o.m.
22 hours ago
29
What is always hidden is that the major cause of lifetime homelessness is mental illness or special needs. It is not (for a majority of this population) unfair wages or unfair welfare. Those who are homeless will have trouble registering or even caring that they should register
– Frank Cedeno
22 hours ago
2
In Berlin, most homeless people that are highly visible are from the Balkan or eastern Europe. Also, Asia is much different due to strong ideas of family honour etc., i.e. cultural differences.
– Philip Klöcking
20 hours ago
15
@Blaszard In my experience, homeless people in developed Asian countries tend to be ejected from the society and form sub-urbs somewhere outside of the cities. They don't beg because they'd be prosecuted, and it would be too much of a shame. In Europe, begging isn't seen as a crime that much - and not as frowned upon.
– Narusan
20 hours ago
3
Related paper says 25,296 homeless in Japan in 2003 (population 127.7M => ~0.02%). Paper suggests income homogeneity (via GINI coefficient) and then says "After the income distribution leveled out (Tachibanaki, 1998), public begging disappeared." though I'm not sure about the correlation. Paper also points out begging is illegal, and that homeless tend to form isolated communities. More in A Comparative Study of Homelessness in the United Kingdom and Japan
– BurnsBA
19 hours ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
33
down vote
up vote
33
down vote
The (homeless) beggars are likely to congregate whey they are most visible and likely to be successful at begging. Their visibility to tourists probably depends more on how willing the police is willing to crack down on them.
And your impressions of prevalence don't seem backed by data, at least before the financial crisis of 2008.
From "Homelessness in Europe and the United States:
A Comparison of Prevalence and Public Opinion (2007)":
Random samples of 250–435 adults were interviewed by telephone in five different
nations (N = 1,546): Belgium, Germany, Italy, the UK, and the United States. The
interview included questions on respondent attitudes, knowledge, and opinions
regarding homelessness; respondents’ own personal experiences with homelessness
and homeless people; and demographic characteristics of the respondents.
The highest rates for lifetime literal homelessness were found in the UK (7.7%)
and United States (6.2%), with the lowest rate in Germany (2.4%), and intermediate
rates in Italy (4.0%) and Belgium (3.4%). Less compassionate attitudes
toward the homeless were also found on many dimensions in the United States and
the UK. Possible explanations of these findings, drawn from various theoretical
perspectives, and policy implications are provided.
"Testing a Typology of Homelessness Across Welfare Regimes: Shelter Use in Denmark and the USA" (2015)
This article compares patterns of homeless shelter use in Denmark and the USA. Combining data from homeless shelters in Denmark with population registers, we find that the prevalence of shelter use is substantially lower in Denmark than in the USA. A cluster analysis of shelter stays identifies three types of users similar to findings from US research: the transitionally, episodically and chronically homeless. However, the transitionally homeless in Denmark have a higher tendency of suffering from mental illness and substance abuse than the transitionally homeless in the USA. The results support Stephens and Fitzpatrick' hypothesis that countries with more extensive welfare systems and lower levels of poverty have lower levels of homelessness, mainly amongst those with complex support needs, whereas in countries with less extensive welfare systems homelessness affects broader groups and is more widely associated with poverty and housing affordability problems.
It might have gotten worse in Greece.
I couldn't find stats on how many beggars are locals and how many intra-EU/EEA "migrants", but clearly the large difference in economic development between the Eastern EU (Romania, Bulgaria etc.) seem to play a role in the beggars you see in Paris or in Oslo.
At least according to one (2011) Swiss news article:
There is no national legislation on begging in Switzerland. It is left to the cantons and communes to deal with the problem.
The recent call for a ban in Lausanne follows similar moves in other parts of French-speaking Switzerland, such as Geneva, Vevey, Montreux, Renens and ten communes west of Lausanne, as well as cantons Fribourg and Neuchâtel. Other locations, such as Aigle, Yverdon and Pully, are also considering bans.
Geneva introduced a ban in February 2008 but groups of Roma beggars are still visible on its streets, despite several police round-ups and regular controls. It is estimated that the number of 200 previously present in front of stores and banks may have been cut by half.
Older begging bans are also in place in Basel, Zurich and Lucerne.
“Numbers clearly increased following the introduction of Schengen [25-country passport-free travel zone], but it’s still a small problem compared with Zurich and Bern,†said Klaus Mannhart, spokesman for the Basel City police.
Bern, meanwhile, has no ban against begging. But in June 2009 the police, along with Romanian and Bern city authorities launched a programme named “Agora†to crack down on organised gangs from eastern Europe targeting the city.
After almost 700 police checks - including 79 on children – totalling 2,000 working hours, Agora is considered a great success, said Bern aliens police chief Alexander Ott.
“We hardly have any more beggars; they say Bern and Switzerland – no more.â€Â
The (homeless) beggars are likely to congregate whey they are most visible and likely to be successful at begging. Their visibility to tourists probably depends more on how willing the police is willing to crack down on them.
And your impressions of prevalence don't seem backed by data, at least before the financial crisis of 2008.
From "Homelessness in Europe and the United States:
A Comparison of Prevalence and Public Opinion (2007)":
Random samples of 250–435 adults were interviewed by telephone in five different
nations (N = 1,546): Belgium, Germany, Italy, the UK, and the United States. The
interview included questions on respondent attitudes, knowledge, and opinions
regarding homelessness; respondents’ own personal experiences with homelessness
and homeless people; and demographic characteristics of the respondents.
The highest rates for lifetime literal homelessness were found in the UK (7.7%)
and United States (6.2%), with the lowest rate in Germany (2.4%), and intermediate
rates in Italy (4.0%) and Belgium (3.4%). Less compassionate attitudes
toward the homeless were also found on many dimensions in the United States and
the UK. Possible explanations of these findings, drawn from various theoretical
perspectives, and policy implications are provided.
"Testing a Typology of Homelessness Across Welfare Regimes: Shelter Use in Denmark and the USA" (2015)
This article compares patterns of homeless shelter use in Denmark and the USA. Combining data from homeless shelters in Denmark with population registers, we find that the prevalence of shelter use is substantially lower in Denmark than in the USA. A cluster analysis of shelter stays identifies three types of users similar to findings from US research: the transitionally, episodically and chronically homeless. However, the transitionally homeless in Denmark have a higher tendency of suffering from mental illness and substance abuse than the transitionally homeless in the USA. The results support Stephens and Fitzpatrick' hypothesis that countries with more extensive welfare systems and lower levels of poverty have lower levels of homelessness, mainly amongst those with complex support needs, whereas in countries with less extensive welfare systems homelessness affects broader groups and is more widely associated with poverty and housing affordability problems.
It might have gotten worse in Greece.
I couldn't find stats on how many beggars are locals and how many intra-EU/EEA "migrants", but clearly the large difference in economic development between the Eastern EU (Romania, Bulgaria etc.) seem to play a role in the beggars you see in Paris or in Oslo.
At least according to one (2011) Swiss news article:
There is no national legislation on begging in Switzerland. It is left to the cantons and communes to deal with the problem.
The recent call for a ban in Lausanne follows similar moves in other parts of French-speaking Switzerland, such as Geneva, Vevey, Montreux, Renens and ten communes west of Lausanne, as well as cantons Fribourg and Neuchâtel. Other locations, such as Aigle, Yverdon and Pully, are also considering bans.
Geneva introduced a ban in February 2008 but groups of Roma beggars are still visible on its streets, despite several police round-ups and regular controls. It is estimated that the number of 200 previously present in front of stores and banks may have been cut by half.
Older begging bans are also in place in Basel, Zurich and Lucerne.
“Numbers clearly increased following the introduction of Schengen [25-country passport-free travel zone], but it’s still a small problem compared with Zurich and Bern,†said Klaus Mannhart, spokesman for the Basel City police.
Bern, meanwhile, has no ban against begging. But in June 2009 the police, along with Romanian and Bern city authorities launched a programme named “Agora†to crack down on organised gangs from eastern Europe targeting the city.
After almost 700 police checks - including 79 on children – totalling 2,000 working hours, Agora is considered a great success, said Bern aliens police chief Alexander Ott.
“We hardly have any more beggars; they say Bern and Switzerland – no more.â€Â
edited 22 hours ago
answered 22 hours ago


Fizz
8,28312265
8,28312265
3
@Blaszard, one has to take care of the definitions with that. A 20-something who has to return to the parent's home for lack of other shelter would be homeless in some statistics -- without a home, and not by choice.
– o.m.
22 hours ago
29
What is always hidden is that the major cause of lifetime homelessness is mental illness or special needs. It is not (for a majority of this population) unfair wages or unfair welfare. Those who are homeless will have trouble registering or even caring that they should register
– Frank Cedeno
22 hours ago
2
In Berlin, most homeless people that are highly visible are from the Balkan or eastern Europe. Also, Asia is much different due to strong ideas of family honour etc., i.e. cultural differences.
– Philip Klöcking
20 hours ago
15
@Blaszard In my experience, homeless people in developed Asian countries tend to be ejected from the society and form sub-urbs somewhere outside of the cities. They don't beg because they'd be prosecuted, and it would be too much of a shame. In Europe, begging isn't seen as a crime that much - and not as frowned upon.
– Narusan
20 hours ago
3
Related paper says 25,296 homeless in Japan in 2003 (population 127.7M => ~0.02%). Paper suggests income homogeneity (via GINI coefficient) and then says "After the income distribution leveled out (Tachibanaki, 1998), public begging disappeared." though I'm not sure about the correlation. Paper also points out begging is illegal, and that homeless tend to form isolated communities. More in A Comparative Study of Homelessness in the United Kingdom and Japan
– BurnsBA
19 hours ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
3
@Blaszard, one has to take care of the definitions with that. A 20-something who has to return to the parent's home for lack of other shelter would be homeless in some statistics -- without a home, and not by choice.
– o.m.
22 hours ago
29
What is always hidden is that the major cause of lifetime homelessness is mental illness or special needs. It is not (for a majority of this population) unfair wages or unfair welfare. Those who are homeless will have trouble registering or even caring that they should register
– Frank Cedeno
22 hours ago
2
In Berlin, most homeless people that are highly visible are from the Balkan or eastern Europe. Also, Asia is much different due to strong ideas of family honour etc., i.e. cultural differences.
– Philip Klöcking
20 hours ago
15
@Blaszard In my experience, homeless people in developed Asian countries tend to be ejected from the society and form sub-urbs somewhere outside of the cities. They don't beg because they'd be prosecuted, and it would be too much of a shame. In Europe, begging isn't seen as a crime that much - and not as frowned upon.
– Narusan
20 hours ago
3
Related paper says 25,296 homeless in Japan in 2003 (population 127.7M => ~0.02%). Paper suggests income homogeneity (via GINI coefficient) and then says "After the income distribution leveled out (Tachibanaki, 1998), public begging disappeared." though I'm not sure about the correlation. Paper also points out begging is illegal, and that homeless tend to form isolated communities. More in A Comparative Study of Homelessness in the United Kingdom and Japan
– BurnsBA
19 hours ago
3
3
@Blaszard, one has to take care of the definitions with that. A 20-something who has to return to the parent's home for lack of other shelter would be homeless in some statistics -- without a home, and not by choice.
– o.m.
22 hours ago
@Blaszard, one has to take care of the definitions with that. A 20-something who has to return to the parent's home for lack of other shelter would be homeless in some statistics -- without a home, and not by choice.
– o.m.
22 hours ago
29
29
What is always hidden is that the major cause of lifetime homelessness is mental illness or special needs. It is not (for a majority of this population) unfair wages or unfair welfare. Those who are homeless will have trouble registering or even caring that they should register
– Frank Cedeno
22 hours ago
What is always hidden is that the major cause of lifetime homelessness is mental illness or special needs. It is not (for a majority of this population) unfair wages or unfair welfare. Those who are homeless will have trouble registering or even caring that they should register
– Frank Cedeno
22 hours ago
2
2
In Berlin, most homeless people that are highly visible are from the Balkan or eastern Europe. Also, Asia is much different due to strong ideas of family honour etc., i.e. cultural differences.
– Philip Klöcking
20 hours ago
In Berlin, most homeless people that are highly visible are from the Balkan or eastern Europe. Also, Asia is much different due to strong ideas of family honour etc., i.e. cultural differences.
– Philip Klöcking
20 hours ago
15
15
@Blaszard In my experience, homeless people in developed Asian countries tend to be ejected from the society and form sub-urbs somewhere outside of the cities. They don't beg because they'd be prosecuted, and it would be too much of a shame. In Europe, begging isn't seen as a crime that much - and not as frowned upon.
– Narusan
20 hours ago
@Blaszard In my experience, homeless people in developed Asian countries tend to be ejected from the society and form sub-urbs somewhere outside of the cities. They don't beg because they'd be prosecuted, and it would be too much of a shame. In Europe, begging isn't seen as a crime that much - and not as frowned upon.
– Narusan
20 hours ago
3
3
Related paper says 25,296 homeless in Japan in 2003 (population 127.7M => ~0.02%). Paper suggests income homogeneity (via GINI coefficient) and then says "After the income distribution leveled out (Tachibanaki, 1998), public begging disappeared." though I'm not sure about the correlation. Paper also points out begging is illegal, and that homeless tend to form isolated communities. More in A Comparative Study of Homelessness in the United Kingdom and Japan
– BurnsBA
19 hours ago
Related paper says 25,296 homeless in Japan in 2003 (population 127.7M => ~0.02%). Paper suggests income homogeneity (via GINI coefficient) and then says "After the income distribution leveled out (Tachibanaki, 1998), public begging disappeared." though I'm not sure about the correlation. Paper also points out begging is illegal, and that homeless tend to form isolated communities. More in A Comparative Study of Homelessness in the United Kingdom and Japan
– BurnsBA
19 hours ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
These answers are specifically for Sweden, which you mention in your question, but at least some of it may also apply in other countries:
- You need to be a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit to have access to most parts of the Swedish welfare system. Most people begging on the streets in Sweden are from EU countries in southeastern Europe. EU citizens have the right to live in any part of the EU as long as they can support themselves. But they only have access to the welfare system in their home country. Before Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU in 2007, begging on the streets was a quite uncommon sight in Sweden.
- If you are a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit, the government can help you get an apartment if you are homeless, and pay for your rent if you have no means to pay for it yourself. But you still need to be able to keep the apartment, which requires you to keep the apartment in an acceptable condition and to behave acceptably towards your surrounding. Many homeless people who would have access to the welfare system suffer from addiction, mental illness, or a combination of both, which can make this difficult. The government can offer you support in dealing with those issues, but they cannot force you to stay sober or seek treatment.
- There are many homeless shelters, run by both local governments and charities, that offer homeless people a meal, a shower and a bed for the night, but you generally need to be sober and behave acceptably while you are there. This may seem like an easy thing for you and me, but if your life is a wreck and you are struggling with addiction and/or mental illness it may not be so easy.
I'm not saying that I think these people deserve the situation they are in or that they only have themselves to blame. I'm merely pointing out that even the Swedish safety net has holes in it that you can fall through.
New contributor
jkej is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
4
Your first point is likely the important factor. I remember that before Bulgaria and Romania joined, I could count the people in the streets on one hand.
– pipe
7 hours ago
2
Spot on for Norway as well. We are not part of the EU, but have signed agreements with them about open borders.
– Stig Hemmer
6 hours ago
3
@pipe Yes, the first point is the probably the dominant factor for people begging on the streets. But maybe not for homelessness.
– jkej
5 hours ago
1
On more factor specific to sweden, which you might consider including in your answer: Psychiatric care was reformed in the mid nineties resulting in more people with mental issues living on their own (instead of institutions). Some of them fail to handle that, ending up evicted.
– Guran
4 hours ago
As to psychiatric care reform in Sweden: Before the reform persons could, and was, taken into psychiatric hospitals against their expressed will. The history includes people that were locked up for life, sedated with strong medicines and, historically, sterilized. This was declared against human rights -- a person should not in general be forced to accept treatment (unless dangerous to other persons). A person in Sweden is allowed to be homeless (beeing homeless up to around mid 1900-s used to be punishable with prison).
– ghellquist
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
22
down vote
These answers are specifically for Sweden, which you mention in your question, but at least some of it may also apply in other countries:
- You need to be a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit to have access to most parts of the Swedish welfare system. Most people begging on the streets in Sweden are from EU countries in southeastern Europe. EU citizens have the right to live in any part of the EU as long as they can support themselves. But they only have access to the welfare system in their home country. Before Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU in 2007, begging on the streets was a quite uncommon sight in Sweden.
- If you are a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit, the government can help you get an apartment if you are homeless, and pay for your rent if you have no means to pay for it yourself. But you still need to be able to keep the apartment, which requires you to keep the apartment in an acceptable condition and to behave acceptably towards your surrounding. Many homeless people who would have access to the welfare system suffer from addiction, mental illness, or a combination of both, which can make this difficult. The government can offer you support in dealing with those issues, but they cannot force you to stay sober or seek treatment.
- There are many homeless shelters, run by both local governments and charities, that offer homeless people a meal, a shower and a bed for the night, but you generally need to be sober and behave acceptably while you are there. This may seem like an easy thing for you and me, but if your life is a wreck and you are struggling with addiction and/or mental illness it may not be so easy.
I'm not saying that I think these people deserve the situation they are in or that they only have themselves to blame. I'm merely pointing out that even the Swedish safety net has holes in it that you can fall through.
New contributor
jkej is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
4
Your first point is likely the important factor. I remember that before Bulgaria and Romania joined, I could count the people in the streets on one hand.
– pipe
7 hours ago
2
Spot on for Norway as well. We are not part of the EU, but have signed agreements with them about open borders.
– Stig Hemmer
6 hours ago
3
@pipe Yes, the first point is the probably the dominant factor for people begging on the streets. But maybe not for homelessness.
– jkej
5 hours ago
1
On more factor specific to sweden, which you might consider including in your answer: Psychiatric care was reformed in the mid nineties resulting in more people with mental issues living on their own (instead of institutions). Some of them fail to handle that, ending up evicted.
– Guran
4 hours ago
As to psychiatric care reform in Sweden: Before the reform persons could, and was, taken into psychiatric hospitals against their expressed will. The history includes people that were locked up for life, sedated with strong medicines and, historically, sterilized. This was declared against human rights -- a person should not in general be forced to accept treatment (unless dangerous to other persons). A person in Sweden is allowed to be homeless (beeing homeless up to around mid 1900-s used to be punishable with prison).
– ghellquist
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
22
down vote
up vote
22
down vote
These answers are specifically for Sweden, which you mention in your question, but at least some of it may also apply in other countries:
- You need to be a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit to have access to most parts of the Swedish welfare system. Most people begging on the streets in Sweden are from EU countries in southeastern Europe. EU citizens have the right to live in any part of the EU as long as they can support themselves. But they only have access to the welfare system in their home country. Before Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU in 2007, begging on the streets was a quite uncommon sight in Sweden.
- If you are a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit, the government can help you get an apartment if you are homeless, and pay for your rent if you have no means to pay for it yourself. But you still need to be able to keep the apartment, which requires you to keep the apartment in an acceptable condition and to behave acceptably towards your surrounding. Many homeless people who would have access to the welfare system suffer from addiction, mental illness, or a combination of both, which can make this difficult. The government can offer you support in dealing with those issues, but they cannot force you to stay sober or seek treatment.
- There are many homeless shelters, run by both local governments and charities, that offer homeless people a meal, a shower and a bed for the night, but you generally need to be sober and behave acceptably while you are there. This may seem like an easy thing for you and me, but if your life is a wreck and you are struggling with addiction and/or mental illness it may not be so easy.
I'm not saying that I think these people deserve the situation they are in or that they only have themselves to blame. I'm merely pointing out that even the Swedish safety net has holes in it that you can fall through.
New contributor
jkej is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
These answers are specifically for Sweden, which you mention in your question, but at least some of it may also apply in other countries:
- You need to be a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit to have access to most parts of the Swedish welfare system. Most people begging on the streets in Sweden are from EU countries in southeastern Europe. EU citizens have the right to live in any part of the EU as long as they can support themselves. But they only have access to the welfare system in their home country. Before Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU in 2007, begging on the streets was a quite uncommon sight in Sweden.
- If you are a Swedish citizen or have a residence permit, the government can help you get an apartment if you are homeless, and pay for your rent if you have no means to pay for it yourself. But you still need to be able to keep the apartment, which requires you to keep the apartment in an acceptable condition and to behave acceptably towards your surrounding. Many homeless people who would have access to the welfare system suffer from addiction, mental illness, or a combination of both, which can make this difficult. The government can offer you support in dealing with those issues, but they cannot force you to stay sober or seek treatment.
- There are many homeless shelters, run by both local governments and charities, that offer homeless people a meal, a shower and a bed for the night, but you generally need to be sober and behave acceptably while you are there. This may seem like an easy thing for you and me, but if your life is a wreck and you are struggling with addiction and/or mental illness it may not be so easy.
I'm not saying that I think these people deserve the situation they are in or that they only have themselves to blame. I'm merely pointing out that even the Swedish safety net has holes in it that you can fall through.
New contributor
jkej is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 4 hours ago
New contributor
jkej is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 19 hours ago
jkej
3213
3213
New contributor
jkej is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
jkej is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
jkej is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
4
Your first point is likely the important factor. I remember that before Bulgaria and Romania joined, I could count the people in the streets on one hand.
– pipe
7 hours ago
2
Spot on for Norway as well. We are not part of the EU, but have signed agreements with them about open borders.
– Stig Hemmer
6 hours ago
3
@pipe Yes, the first point is the probably the dominant factor for people begging on the streets. But maybe not for homelessness.
– jkej
5 hours ago
1
On more factor specific to sweden, which you might consider including in your answer: Psychiatric care was reformed in the mid nineties resulting in more people with mental issues living on their own (instead of institutions). Some of them fail to handle that, ending up evicted.
– Guran
4 hours ago
As to psychiatric care reform in Sweden: Before the reform persons could, and was, taken into psychiatric hospitals against their expressed will. The history includes people that were locked up for life, sedated with strong medicines and, historically, sterilized. This was declared against human rights -- a person should not in general be forced to accept treatment (unless dangerous to other persons). A person in Sweden is allowed to be homeless (beeing homeless up to around mid 1900-s used to be punishable with prison).
– ghellquist
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
4
Your first point is likely the important factor. I remember that before Bulgaria and Romania joined, I could count the people in the streets on one hand.
– pipe
7 hours ago
2
Spot on for Norway as well. We are not part of the EU, but have signed agreements with them about open borders.
– Stig Hemmer
6 hours ago
3
@pipe Yes, the first point is the probably the dominant factor for people begging on the streets. But maybe not for homelessness.
– jkej
5 hours ago
1
On more factor specific to sweden, which you might consider including in your answer: Psychiatric care was reformed in the mid nineties resulting in more people with mental issues living on their own (instead of institutions). Some of them fail to handle that, ending up evicted.
– Guran
4 hours ago
As to psychiatric care reform in Sweden: Before the reform persons could, and was, taken into psychiatric hospitals against their expressed will. The history includes people that were locked up for life, sedated with strong medicines and, historically, sterilized. This was declared against human rights -- a person should not in general be forced to accept treatment (unless dangerous to other persons). A person in Sweden is allowed to be homeless (beeing homeless up to around mid 1900-s used to be punishable with prison).
– ghellquist
1 hour ago
4
4
Your first point is likely the important factor. I remember that before Bulgaria and Romania joined, I could count the people in the streets on one hand.
– pipe
7 hours ago
Your first point is likely the important factor. I remember that before Bulgaria and Romania joined, I could count the people in the streets on one hand.
– pipe
7 hours ago
2
2
Spot on for Norway as well. We are not part of the EU, but have signed agreements with them about open borders.
– Stig Hemmer
6 hours ago
Spot on for Norway as well. We are not part of the EU, but have signed agreements with them about open borders.
– Stig Hemmer
6 hours ago
3
3
@pipe Yes, the first point is the probably the dominant factor for people begging on the streets. But maybe not for homelessness.
– jkej
5 hours ago
@pipe Yes, the first point is the probably the dominant factor for people begging on the streets. But maybe not for homelessness.
– jkej
5 hours ago
1
1
On more factor specific to sweden, which you might consider including in your answer: Psychiatric care was reformed in the mid nineties resulting in more people with mental issues living on their own (instead of institutions). Some of them fail to handle that, ending up evicted.
– Guran
4 hours ago
On more factor specific to sweden, which you might consider including in your answer: Psychiatric care was reformed in the mid nineties resulting in more people with mental issues living on their own (instead of institutions). Some of them fail to handle that, ending up evicted.
– Guran
4 hours ago
As to psychiatric care reform in Sweden: Before the reform persons could, and was, taken into psychiatric hospitals against their expressed will. The history includes people that were locked up for life, sedated with strong medicines and, historically, sterilized. This was declared against human rights -- a person should not in general be forced to accept treatment (unless dangerous to other persons). A person in Sweden is allowed to be homeless (beeing homeless up to around mid 1900-s used to be punishable with prison).
– ghellquist
1 hour ago
As to psychiatric care reform in Sweden: Before the reform persons could, and was, taken into psychiatric hospitals against their expressed will. The history includes people that were locked up for life, sedated with strong medicines and, historically, sterilized. This was declared against human rights -- a person should not in general be forced to accept treatment (unless dangerous to other persons). A person in Sweden is allowed to be homeless (beeing homeless up to around mid 1900-s used to be punishable with prison).
– ghellquist
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
Typical welfare is modeled to be a stop-gap type of thing. So, if you lose your job and can't get another for six months, then the govt comes along and won't let you starve. It is usually modeled on the idea that the people involved are generally reasonable, and desire to do something for themselves. The usual thing is a quite gentle intervention.
The causes of homelessness are varied. It is very difficult to be sure you understand how and why any given person is such, especially just by looking at them. Just a few examples: Mental health issues, drug/alcohol abuse, various issues of abuse and conflict in the home, for example teens being forced out or abandoning home.
These issues can be both causes, and they can contribute to staying homeless when somebody is homeless for some other reason. The homeless guy may use alcohol to simply get through a night, which will lower him more and make getting back in a home harder.
This website says Schizophrenia may be as high as 20% of homeless.
https://endhomelessness.org/new-study-offers-hope-for-homeless-people-with-schizophrenia/
This website claims alcohol is 38%, and other drugs are 26%.
https://www.michaelshouse.com/drug-abuse/study-homelessness-addiction/
There are many other issues. Such things are often quite resistant to what would you would call gentle intervention. For example, a hard core drug abuser is not going to be kept off the street by handing him rent and food money. He'll just spend it on drugs, and be back on the street. If you find a teen who has run away from abusive parents, giving him money won't solve the abusive parent situation. Though it may get him into a crappy apartment.
It may be possible to intervene in such cases. But it will require vastly more than just handing them money. In some cases, even the full attention of a professional psychologist may be insufficient. Addiction, for example, can be very resistant to change.
So, for some group of people, it will be the case that you can't get them off the street unless you are prepared to physically grab them and stick them in some kind of therapy. And you will need to physically keep them there until it makes some difference. Most western nations find such forcible institutionalization distasteful. So those folks tend to wind up on the street.
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
Typical welfare is modeled to be a stop-gap type of thing. So, if you lose your job and can't get another for six months, then the govt comes along and won't let you starve. It is usually modeled on the idea that the people involved are generally reasonable, and desire to do something for themselves. The usual thing is a quite gentle intervention.
The causes of homelessness are varied. It is very difficult to be sure you understand how and why any given person is such, especially just by looking at them. Just a few examples: Mental health issues, drug/alcohol abuse, various issues of abuse and conflict in the home, for example teens being forced out or abandoning home.
These issues can be both causes, and they can contribute to staying homeless when somebody is homeless for some other reason. The homeless guy may use alcohol to simply get through a night, which will lower him more and make getting back in a home harder.
This website says Schizophrenia may be as high as 20% of homeless.
https://endhomelessness.org/new-study-offers-hope-for-homeless-people-with-schizophrenia/
This website claims alcohol is 38%, and other drugs are 26%.
https://www.michaelshouse.com/drug-abuse/study-homelessness-addiction/
There are many other issues. Such things are often quite resistant to what would you would call gentle intervention. For example, a hard core drug abuser is not going to be kept off the street by handing him rent and food money. He'll just spend it on drugs, and be back on the street. If you find a teen who has run away from abusive parents, giving him money won't solve the abusive parent situation. Though it may get him into a crappy apartment.
It may be possible to intervene in such cases. But it will require vastly more than just handing them money. In some cases, even the full attention of a professional psychologist may be insufficient. Addiction, for example, can be very resistant to change.
So, for some group of people, it will be the case that you can't get them off the street unless you are prepared to physically grab them and stick them in some kind of therapy. And you will need to physically keep them there until it makes some difference. Most western nations find such forcible institutionalization distasteful. So those folks tend to wind up on the street.
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
up vote
17
down vote
Typical welfare is modeled to be a stop-gap type of thing. So, if you lose your job and can't get another for six months, then the govt comes along and won't let you starve. It is usually modeled on the idea that the people involved are generally reasonable, and desire to do something for themselves. The usual thing is a quite gentle intervention.
The causes of homelessness are varied. It is very difficult to be sure you understand how and why any given person is such, especially just by looking at them. Just a few examples: Mental health issues, drug/alcohol abuse, various issues of abuse and conflict in the home, for example teens being forced out or abandoning home.
These issues can be both causes, and they can contribute to staying homeless when somebody is homeless for some other reason. The homeless guy may use alcohol to simply get through a night, which will lower him more and make getting back in a home harder.
This website says Schizophrenia may be as high as 20% of homeless.
https://endhomelessness.org/new-study-offers-hope-for-homeless-people-with-schizophrenia/
This website claims alcohol is 38%, and other drugs are 26%.
https://www.michaelshouse.com/drug-abuse/study-homelessness-addiction/
There are many other issues. Such things are often quite resistant to what would you would call gentle intervention. For example, a hard core drug abuser is not going to be kept off the street by handing him rent and food money. He'll just spend it on drugs, and be back on the street. If you find a teen who has run away from abusive parents, giving him money won't solve the abusive parent situation. Though it may get him into a crappy apartment.
It may be possible to intervene in such cases. But it will require vastly more than just handing them money. In some cases, even the full attention of a professional psychologist may be insufficient. Addiction, for example, can be very resistant to change.
So, for some group of people, it will be the case that you can't get them off the street unless you are prepared to physically grab them and stick them in some kind of therapy. And you will need to physically keep them there until it makes some difference. Most western nations find such forcible institutionalization distasteful. So those folks tend to wind up on the street.
Typical welfare is modeled to be a stop-gap type of thing. So, if you lose your job and can't get another for six months, then the govt comes along and won't let you starve. It is usually modeled on the idea that the people involved are generally reasonable, and desire to do something for themselves. The usual thing is a quite gentle intervention.
The causes of homelessness are varied. It is very difficult to be sure you understand how and why any given person is such, especially just by looking at them. Just a few examples: Mental health issues, drug/alcohol abuse, various issues of abuse and conflict in the home, for example teens being forced out or abandoning home.
These issues can be both causes, and they can contribute to staying homeless when somebody is homeless for some other reason. The homeless guy may use alcohol to simply get through a night, which will lower him more and make getting back in a home harder.
This website says Schizophrenia may be as high as 20% of homeless.
https://endhomelessness.org/new-study-offers-hope-for-homeless-people-with-schizophrenia/
This website claims alcohol is 38%, and other drugs are 26%.
https://www.michaelshouse.com/drug-abuse/study-homelessness-addiction/
There are many other issues. Such things are often quite resistant to what would you would call gentle intervention. For example, a hard core drug abuser is not going to be kept off the street by handing him rent and food money. He'll just spend it on drugs, and be back on the street. If you find a teen who has run away from abusive parents, giving him money won't solve the abusive parent situation. Though it may get him into a crappy apartment.
It may be possible to intervene in such cases. But it will require vastly more than just handing them money. In some cases, even the full attention of a professional psychologist may be insufficient. Addiction, for example, can be very resistant to change.
So, for some group of people, it will be the case that you can't get them off the street unless you are prepared to physically grab them and stick them in some kind of therapy. And you will need to physically keep them there until it makes some difference. Most western nations find such forcible institutionalization distasteful. So those folks tend to wind up on the street.
answered 21 hours ago


puppetsock
1,5891313
1,5891313
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
12
down vote
Generalizing over all of Europe is difficult. With this caveat:
- There are always people who prefer living on the street to living in a government-sponsored homeless shelter (which is not a nice place by any stretch of the imagination). Many of them are in bad health, but only extreme cases are sent to hospital against their expressed will. (Alone this does not explain the numbers.)
- Some people do not live on the street, but they have no regular job and they augment various welfare payments by begging and similar activities.
- In Germany there are mandatory deposits on many drinks containers (even if they are not reuseable). Collecting bottles in the right places can get a halfway decent hourly rate if nobody else went there before.
- Also in Germany, in big cities there are newspapers written and sold by homeless. The sellers will usually accept cash donations in addition to sales.
- Some of the beggars in north-western Europe come from south-eastern Europe. As EU citizens they can travel. The percentages vary from place to place. There is still a sharp imbalance in wealth.
1
Thanks for the answer but 1 and 2 are also true in other countries. So it must be that the disproportionate rate of European homeless prefer to live on streets than other countries (most notably Japan and South Korea, that have lower social security yet fewer homeless).
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
2
As to 3, are EU citizens from other countries not able to access to the same social security as citizens of the countries do?
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
10
@Blaszard: You might be confusing homeless with begging. The Roma migrants might have a home somewhere in Eastern EU. And yes, access to local welfare has been curtailed across the EU precisely due to this phenomenon. dw.com/en/… Working in Romania or Bulgaria pays less than being unemployed in Germany. Japan or South Korea don't have this level of inequality (i.e. EU-wide) within their borders.
– Fizz
21 hours ago
3
@Blaszard, that depends. Generally, if they have been workers for a significant time, then yes. If they just arrived and never worked, then no.
– o.m.
21 hours ago
8
@Blaszard Could you back up the assertion that Japan and Korea have lower homeless levels? Having lived in Japan, I saw many homeless people. They were usually just evicted from visible places.
– BlackThorn
17 hours ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
12
down vote
Generalizing over all of Europe is difficult. With this caveat:
- There are always people who prefer living on the street to living in a government-sponsored homeless shelter (which is not a nice place by any stretch of the imagination). Many of them are in bad health, but only extreme cases are sent to hospital against their expressed will. (Alone this does not explain the numbers.)
- Some people do not live on the street, but they have no regular job and they augment various welfare payments by begging and similar activities.
- In Germany there are mandatory deposits on many drinks containers (even if they are not reuseable). Collecting bottles in the right places can get a halfway decent hourly rate if nobody else went there before.
- Also in Germany, in big cities there are newspapers written and sold by homeless. The sellers will usually accept cash donations in addition to sales.
- Some of the beggars in north-western Europe come from south-eastern Europe. As EU citizens they can travel. The percentages vary from place to place. There is still a sharp imbalance in wealth.
1
Thanks for the answer but 1 and 2 are also true in other countries. So it must be that the disproportionate rate of European homeless prefer to live on streets than other countries (most notably Japan and South Korea, that have lower social security yet fewer homeless).
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
2
As to 3, are EU citizens from other countries not able to access to the same social security as citizens of the countries do?
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
10
@Blaszard: You might be confusing homeless with begging. The Roma migrants might have a home somewhere in Eastern EU. And yes, access to local welfare has been curtailed across the EU precisely due to this phenomenon. dw.com/en/… Working in Romania or Bulgaria pays less than being unemployed in Germany. Japan or South Korea don't have this level of inequality (i.e. EU-wide) within their borders.
– Fizz
21 hours ago
3
@Blaszard, that depends. Generally, if they have been workers for a significant time, then yes. If they just arrived and never worked, then no.
– o.m.
21 hours ago
8
@Blaszard Could you back up the assertion that Japan and Korea have lower homeless levels? Having lived in Japan, I saw many homeless people. They were usually just evicted from visible places.
– BlackThorn
17 hours ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
12
down vote
up vote
12
down vote
Generalizing over all of Europe is difficult. With this caveat:
- There are always people who prefer living on the street to living in a government-sponsored homeless shelter (which is not a nice place by any stretch of the imagination). Many of them are in bad health, but only extreme cases are sent to hospital against their expressed will. (Alone this does not explain the numbers.)
- Some people do not live on the street, but they have no regular job and they augment various welfare payments by begging and similar activities.
- In Germany there are mandatory deposits on many drinks containers (even if they are not reuseable). Collecting bottles in the right places can get a halfway decent hourly rate if nobody else went there before.
- Also in Germany, in big cities there are newspapers written and sold by homeless. The sellers will usually accept cash donations in addition to sales.
- Some of the beggars in north-western Europe come from south-eastern Europe. As EU citizens they can travel. The percentages vary from place to place. There is still a sharp imbalance in wealth.
Generalizing over all of Europe is difficult. With this caveat:
- There are always people who prefer living on the street to living in a government-sponsored homeless shelter (which is not a nice place by any stretch of the imagination). Many of them are in bad health, but only extreme cases are sent to hospital against their expressed will. (Alone this does not explain the numbers.)
- Some people do not live on the street, but they have no regular job and they augment various welfare payments by begging and similar activities.
- In Germany there are mandatory deposits on many drinks containers (even if they are not reuseable). Collecting bottles in the right places can get a halfway decent hourly rate if nobody else went there before.
- Also in Germany, in big cities there are newspapers written and sold by homeless. The sellers will usually accept cash donations in addition to sales.
- Some of the beggars in north-western Europe come from south-eastern Europe. As EU citizens they can travel. The percentages vary from place to place. There is still a sharp imbalance in wealth.
answered 22 hours ago
o.m.
2,48939
2,48939
1
Thanks for the answer but 1 and 2 are also true in other countries. So it must be that the disproportionate rate of European homeless prefer to live on streets than other countries (most notably Japan and South Korea, that have lower social security yet fewer homeless).
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
2
As to 3, are EU citizens from other countries not able to access to the same social security as citizens of the countries do?
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
10
@Blaszard: You might be confusing homeless with begging. The Roma migrants might have a home somewhere in Eastern EU. And yes, access to local welfare has been curtailed across the EU precisely due to this phenomenon. dw.com/en/… Working in Romania or Bulgaria pays less than being unemployed in Germany. Japan or South Korea don't have this level of inequality (i.e. EU-wide) within their borders.
– Fizz
21 hours ago
3
@Blaszard, that depends. Generally, if they have been workers for a significant time, then yes. If they just arrived and never worked, then no.
– o.m.
21 hours ago
8
@Blaszard Could you back up the assertion that Japan and Korea have lower homeless levels? Having lived in Japan, I saw many homeless people. They were usually just evicted from visible places.
– BlackThorn
17 hours ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
1
Thanks for the answer but 1 and 2 are also true in other countries. So it must be that the disproportionate rate of European homeless prefer to live on streets than other countries (most notably Japan and South Korea, that have lower social security yet fewer homeless).
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
2
As to 3, are EU citizens from other countries not able to access to the same social security as citizens of the countries do?
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
10
@Blaszard: You might be confusing homeless with begging. The Roma migrants might have a home somewhere in Eastern EU. And yes, access to local welfare has been curtailed across the EU precisely due to this phenomenon. dw.com/en/… Working in Romania or Bulgaria pays less than being unemployed in Germany. Japan or South Korea don't have this level of inequality (i.e. EU-wide) within their borders.
– Fizz
21 hours ago
3
@Blaszard, that depends. Generally, if they have been workers for a significant time, then yes. If they just arrived and never worked, then no.
– o.m.
21 hours ago
8
@Blaszard Could you back up the assertion that Japan and Korea have lower homeless levels? Having lived in Japan, I saw many homeless people. They were usually just evicted from visible places.
– BlackThorn
17 hours ago
1
1
Thanks for the answer but 1 and 2 are also true in other countries. So it must be that the disproportionate rate of European homeless prefer to live on streets than other countries (most notably Japan and South Korea, that have lower social security yet fewer homeless).
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
Thanks for the answer but 1 and 2 are also true in other countries. So it must be that the disproportionate rate of European homeless prefer to live on streets than other countries (most notably Japan and South Korea, that have lower social security yet fewer homeless).
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
2
2
As to 3, are EU citizens from other countries not able to access to the same social security as citizens of the countries do?
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
As to 3, are EU citizens from other countries not able to access to the same social security as citizens of the countries do?
– Blaszard
22 hours ago
10
10
@Blaszard: You might be confusing homeless with begging. The Roma migrants might have a home somewhere in Eastern EU. And yes, access to local welfare has been curtailed across the EU precisely due to this phenomenon. dw.com/en/… Working in Romania or Bulgaria pays less than being unemployed in Germany. Japan or South Korea don't have this level of inequality (i.e. EU-wide) within their borders.
– Fizz
21 hours ago
@Blaszard: You might be confusing homeless with begging. The Roma migrants might have a home somewhere in Eastern EU. And yes, access to local welfare has been curtailed across the EU precisely due to this phenomenon. dw.com/en/… Working in Romania or Bulgaria pays less than being unemployed in Germany. Japan or South Korea don't have this level of inequality (i.e. EU-wide) within their borders.
– Fizz
21 hours ago
3
3
@Blaszard, that depends. Generally, if they have been workers for a significant time, then yes. If they just arrived and never worked, then no.
– o.m.
21 hours ago
@Blaszard, that depends. Generally, if they have been workers for a significant time, then yes. If they just arrived and never worked, then no.
– o.m.
21 hours ago
8
8
@Blaszard Could you back up the assertion that Japan and Korea have lower homeless levels? Having lived in Japan, I saw many homeless people. They were usually just evicted from visible places.
– BlackThorn
17 hours ago
@Blaszard Could you back up the assertion that Japan and Korea have lower homeless levels? Having lived in Japan, I saw many homeless people. They were usually just evicted from visible places.
– BlackThorn
17 hours ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
12
down vote
One issue is that homelessness is not caused by poverty. It is more accurate to say that homelessness causes poverty. Homelessness is primarily a mental health problem. People can't handle the pressures of their lives, so they react by abandoning them. I sometimes call this small or lesser suicide. They don't kill themselves, but they destroy parts of their lives.
Just to be clear, I'm using "mental health" broadly here. I'm including drug addiction, nervous breakdowns, and traditional insanity under mental health.
In some cases, the initial mental health problem might be temporary. If the person gets interventionist help, that person might recover and return to behavior within normal parameters. In other cases, the problem is more serious. For example, drug addicts trade their cars for drugs and then can't return to their apartments or go to work. Or someone may stop taking prescription medication and undergo a psychotic break.
It is optimistic to think that if we just come up with better support, we can fix homelessness. Homelessness is hard in ways that go far past the simple lack of home. We would need (but do not have) solutions to:
- People preferring drugs over anything else.
- People not taking their prescribed medication.
- People reacting to setbacks by abandoning parts of their lives and rejecting help.
That's three separate causes for homelessness, and we don't have particularly good solutions to any of them. If offered help, they may well refuse it. The first group won't give up drugs in exchange for help. The second group won't take drugs in exchange for help. The third group just doesn't believe in help. It's very hard to help people who will not work with the people trying to help them.
add a comment |Â
up vote
12
down vote
One issue is that homelessness is not caused by poverty. It is more accurate to say that homelessness causes poverty. Homelessness is primarily a mental health problem. People can't handle the pressures of their lives, so they react by abandoning them. I sometimes call this small or lesser suicide. They don't kill themselves, but they destroy parts of their lives.
Just to be clear, I'm using "mental health" broadly here. I'm including drug addiction, nervous breakdowns, and traditional insanity under mental health.
In some cases, the initial mental health problem might be temporary. If the person gets interventionist help, that person might recover and return to behavior within normal parameters. In other cases, the problem is more serious. For example, drug addicts trade their cars for drugs and then can't return to their apartments or go to work. Or someone may stop taking prescription medication and undergo a psychotic break.
It is optimistic to think that if we just come up with better support, we can fix homelessness. Homelessness is hard in ways that go far past the simple lack of home. We would need (but do not have) solutions to:
- People preferring drugs over anything else.
- People not taking their prescribed medication.
- People reacting to setbacks by abandoning parts of their lives and rejecting help.
That's three separate causes for homelessness, and we don't have particularly good solutions to any of them. If offered help, they may well refuse it. The first group won't give up drugs in exchange for help. The second group won't take drugs in exchange for help. The third group just doesn't believe in help. It's very hard to help people who will not work with the people trying to help them.
add a comment |Â
up vote
12
down vote
up vote
12
down vote
One issue is that homelessness is not caused by poverty. It is more accurate to say that homelessness causes poverty. Homelessness is primarily a mental health problem. People can't handle the pressures of their lives, so they react by abandoning them. I sometimes call this small or lesser suicide. They don't kill themselves, but they destroy parts of their lives.
Just to be clear, I'm using "mental health" broadly here. I'm including drug addiction, nervous breakdowns, and traditional insanity under mental health.
In some cases, the initial mental health problem might be temporary. If the person gets interventionist help, that person might recover and return to behavior within normal parameters. In other cases, the problem is more serious. For example, drug addicts trade their cars for drugs and then can't return to their apartments or go to work. Or someone may stop taking prescription medication and undergo a psychotic break.
It is optimistic to think that if we just come up with better support, we can fix homelessness. Homelessness is hard in ways that go far past the simple lack of home. We would need (but do not have) solutions to:
- People preferring drugs over anything else.
- People not taking their prescribed medication.
- People reacting to setbacks by abandoning parts of their lives and rejecting help.
That's three separate causes for homelessness, and we don't have particularly good solutions to any of them. If offered help, they may well refuse it. The first group won't give up drugs in exchange for help. The second group won't take drugs in exchange for help. The third group just doesn't believe in help. It's very hard to help people who will not work with the people trying to help them.
One issue is that homelessness is not caused by poverty. It is more accurate to say that homelessness causes poverty. Homelessness is primarily a mental health problem. People can't handle the pressures of their lives, so they react by abandoning them. I sometimes call this small or lesser suicide. They don't kill themselves, but they destroy parts of their lives.
Just to be clear, I'm using "mental health" broadly here. I'm including drug addiction, nervous breakdowns, and traditional insanity under mental health.
In some cases, the initial mental health problem might be temporary. If the person gets interventionist help, that person might recover and return to behavior within normal parameters. In other cases, the problem is more serious. For example, drug addicts trade their cars for drugs and then can't return to their apartments or go to work. Or someone may stop taking prescription medication and undergo a psychotic break.
It is optimistic to think that if we just come up with better support, we can fix homelessness. Homelessness is hard in ways that go far past the simple lack of home. We would need (but do not have) solutions to:
- People preferring drugs over anything else.
- People not taking their prescribed medication.
- People reacting to setbacks by abandoning parts of their lives and rejecting help.
That's three separate causes for homelessness, and we don't have particularly good solutions to any of them. If offered help, they may well refuse it. The first group won't give up drugs in exchange for help. The second group won't take drugs in exchange for help. The third group just doesn't believe in help. It's very hard to help people who will not work with the people trying to help them.
answered 13 hours ago
Brythan
60.9k7122214
60.9k7122214
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
Homeless vs. Beggars
Homeless people aren't very visible. Police chase them away from the places where tourists might see them. They end up somewhere hidden.
Beggars on the other hand, are very visible. Their very job puts them in places tourists and other rich people go. Police might try to chase them away, but they come back. And the police doesn't want tourists seeing anything that might look like police brutality, so they end up letting them stay.
This means that in countries where begging is legal, it is a very visible problem. In countries where it is not legal, the police can do more to hide the problem.
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
Homeless vs. Beggars
Homeless people aren't very visible. Police chase them away from the places where tourists might see them. They end up somewhere hidden.
Beggars on the other hand, are very visible. Their very job puts them in places tourists and other rich people go. Police might try to chase them away, but they come back. And the police doesn't want tourists seeing anything that might look like police brutality, so they end up letting them stay.
This means that in countries where begging is legal, it is a very visible problem. In countries where it is not legal, the police can do more to hide the problem.
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
Homeless vs. Beggars
Homeless people aren't very visible. Police chase them away from the places where tourists might see them. They end up somewhere hidden.
Beggars on the other hand, are very visible. Their very job puts them in places tourists and other rich people go. Police might try to chase them away, but they come back. And the police doesn't want tourists seeing anything that might look like police brutality, so they end up letting them stay.
This means that in countries where begging is legal, it is a very visible problem. In countries where it is not legal, the police can do more to hide the problem.
Homeless vs. Beggars
Homeless people aren't very visible. Police chase them away from the places where tourists might see them. They end up somewhere hidden.
Beggars on the other hand, are very visible. Their very job puts them in places tourists and other rich people go. Police might try to chase them away, but they come back. And the police doesn't want tourists seeing anything that might look like police brutality, so they end up letting them stay.
This means that in countries where begging is legal, it is a very visible problem. In countries where it is not legal, the police can do more to hide the problem.
answered 5 hours ago
Stig Hemmer
50535
50535
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An answer for Austria:
Different groups of beggars and homeless
The Armutskonferenz has a summary of a presentation about beggers which is centered on Austria and from 2014 in German. I did not yet find any peer-reviewed primary sources, but I have no reason to doubt the integrity of the organization and the author.
It lists five groups of beggers (section 3.3):
Travelling beggars: street musicians etc. My interpretation: They choose a life as a poor traveller over a (potentially poor) life in their home country.- Beggars from some parts of Eastern Europe. My interpretation: They come for some weeks/month to Austria to beg. They have no perspective in their home country. They come to Austria, lead a very simply life while they are here and then come back to their home country, where the might have a family to support. Groups of people from the same region travel together and organize their begging (organized begging ≠criminal begging).
Classical homeless (Austrian) people. See the answeres by puppetsock and Phillip.- People who actually receive social benefits, but like to earn some extra money.
- Street Corner Societies and Punks
The welfare system does not cover all cases
- NGOs receive support from the government and the city for their work, but sometimes this means they are not allowed to offer the supported facility to non-EU citizens.
Benefits of the social system do not apply to non-residences of Vienna/Austria: EU-citicens are allowed to travel freely in the EU, but without work they cannot easily become residents of another country.
Government-supported facilities where homeless can sleep are not attractive to all homeless. An example is the Gruft in Vienna (run by an NGO, but receives money from the city):
- It is a big hall where homeless sleep on the floor in sleeping bags, next to each other. Other people snoring can make sleeping difficult, so many homeless prefer to sleep outside during summer.
- Alcohol and dogs are not allowed inside. This rules out the Gruft for some homeless.
Nobody has to die from hunger
- There are soup kitchens which still manage to provide enough food for all people who fall in line. But people might prefer to beg for money so they can buy the food they like instead of eating soup every day.
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Seems to be from 2014, is it a typo or wrong source?
– mathreadler
3 hours ago
Nobody has to die from hunger. That's true. But every winter homeless people freeze to death in Vienna. (Although strictly speaking, they don't have to, they just do.) One big reason for homelessness that I keep hearing about (though I have no sources to back it up) in Austria is divorce. Alimony payments kan be high enough to prevent people from being able to afford a flat in Vienna. (This might be one factor why homeless people are predominantly male.)
– sgf
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
An answer for Austria:
Different groups of beggars and homeless
The Armutskonferenz has a summary of a presentation about beggers which is centered on Austria and from 2014 in German. I did not yet find any peer-reviewed primary sources, but I have no reason to doubt the integrity of the organization and the author.
It lists five groups of beggers (section 3.3):
Travelling beggars: street musicians etc. My interpretation: They choose a life as a poor traveller over a (potentially poor) life in their home country.- Beggars from some parts of Eastern Europe. My interpretation: They come for some weeks/month to Austria to beg. They have no perspective in their home country. They come to Austria, lead a very simply life while they are here and then come back to their home country, where the might have a family to support. Groups of people from the same region travel together and organize their begging (organized begging ≠criminal begging).
Classical homeless (Austrian) people. See the answeres by puppetsock and Phillip.- People who actually receive social benefits, but like to earn some extra money.
- Street Corner Societies and Punks
The welfare system does not cover all cases
- NGOs receive support from the government and the city for their work, but sometimes this means they are not allowed to offer the supported facility to non-EU citizens.
Benefits of the social system do not apply to non-residences of Vienna/Austria: EU-citicens are allowed to travel freely in the EU, but without work they cannot easily become residents of another country.
Government-supported facilities where homeless can sleep are not attractive to all homeless. An example is the Gruft in Vienna (run by an NGO, but receives money from the city):
- It is a big hall where homeless sleep on the floor in sleeping bags, next to each other. Other people snoring can make sleeping difficult, so many homeless prefer to sleep outside during summer.
- Alcohol and dogs are not allowed inside. This rules out the Gruft for some homeless.
Nobody has to die from hunger
- There are soup kitchens which still manage to provide enough food for all people who fall in line. But people might prefer to beg for money so they can buy the food they like instead of eating soup every day.
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Seems to be from 2014, is it a typo or wrong source?
– mathreadler
3 hours ago
Nobody has to die from hunger. That's true. But every winter homeless people freeze to death in Vienna. (Although strictly speaking, they don't have to, they just do.) One big reason for homelessness that I keep hearing about (though I have no sources to back it up) in Austria is divorce. Alimony payments kan be high enough to prevent people from being able to afford a flat in Vienna. (This might be one factor why homeless people are predominantly male.)
– sgf
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
An answer for Austria:
Different groups of beggars and homeless
The Armutskonferenz has a summary of a presentation about beggers which is centered on Austria and from 2014 in German. I did not yet find any peer-reviewed primary sources, but I have no reason to doubt the integrity of the organization and the author.
It lists five groups of beggers (section 3.3):
Travelling beggars: street musicians etc. My interpretation: They choose a life as a poor traveller over a (potentially poor) life in their home country.- Beggars from some parts of Eastern Europe. My interpretation: They come for some weeks/month to Austria to beg. They have no perspective in their home country. They come to Austria, lead a very simply life while they are here and then come back to their home country, where the might have a family to support. Groups of people from the same region travel together and organize their begging (organized begging ≠criminal begging).
Classical homeless (Austrian) people. See the answeres by puppetsock and Phillip.- People who actually receive social benefits, but like to earn some extra money.
- Street Corner Societies and Punks
The welfare system does not cover all cases
- NGOs receive support from the government and the city for their work, but sometimes this means they are not allowed to offer the supported facility to non-EU citizens.
Benefits of the social system do not apply to non-residences of Vienna/Austria: EU-citicens are allowed to travel freely in the EU, but without work they cannot easily become residents of another country.
Government-supported facilities where homeless can sleep are not attractive to all homeless. An example is the Gruft in Vienna (run by an NGO, but receives money from the city):
- It is a big hall where homeless sleep on the floor in sleeping bags, next to each other. Other people snoring can make sleeping difficult, so many homeless prefer to sleep outside during summer.
- Alcohol and dogs are not allowed inside. This rules out the Gruft for some homeless.
Nobody has to die from hunger
- There are soup kitchens which still manage to provide enough food for all people who fall in line. But people might prefer to beg for money so they can buy the food they like instead of eating soup every day.
New contributor
Guest is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
An answer for Austria:
Different groups of beggars and homeless
The Armutskonferenz has a summary of a presentation about beggers which is centered on Austria and from 2014 in German. I did not yet find any peer-reviewed primary sources, but I have no reason to doubt the integrity of the organization and the author.
It lists five groups of beggers (section 3.3):
Travelling beggars: street musicians etc. My interpretation: They choose a life as a poor traveller over a (potentially poor) life in their home country.- Beggars from some parts of Eastern Europe. My interpretation: They come for some weeks/month to Austria to beg. They have no perspective in their home country. They come to Austria, lead a very simply life while they are here and then come back to their home country, where the might have a family to support. Groups of people from the same region travel together and organize their begging (organized begging ≠criminal begging).
Classical homeless (Austrian) people. See the answeres by puppetsock and Phillip.- People who actually receive social benefits, but like to earn some extra money.
- Street Corner Societies and Punks
The welfare system does not cover all cases
- NGOs receive support from the government and the city for their work, but sometimes this means they are not allowed to offer the supported facility to non-EU citizens.
Benefits of the social system do not apply to non-residences of Vienna/Austria: EU-citicens are allowed to travel freely in the EU, but without work they cannot easily become residents of another country.
Government-supported facilities where homeless can sleep are not attractive to all homeless. An example is the Gruft in Vienna (run by an NGO, but receives money from the city):
- It is a big hall where homeless sleep on the floor in sleeping bags, next to each other. Other people snoring can make sleeping difficult, so many homeless prefer to sleep outside during summer.
- Alcohol and dogs are not allowed inside. This rules out the Gruft for some homeless.
Nobody has to die from hunger
- There are soup kitchens which still manage to provide enough food for all people who fall in line. But people might prefer to beg for money so they can buy the food they like instead of eating soup every day.
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edited 3 hours ago
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answered 4 hours ago
Guest
512
512
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Seems to be from 2014, is it a typo or wrong source?
– mathreadler
3 hours ago
Nobody has to die from hunger. That's true. But every winter homeless people freeze to death in Vienna. (Although strictly speaking, they don't have to, they just do.) One big reason for homelessness that I keep hearing about (though I have no sources to back it up) in Austria is divorce. Alimony payments kan be high enough to prevent people from being able to afford a flat in Vienna. (This might be one factor why homeless people are predominantly male.)
– sgf
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Seems to be from 2014, is it a typo or wrong source?
– mathreadler
3 hours ago
Nobody has to die from hunger. That's true. But every winter homeless people freeze to death in Vienna. (Although strictly speaking, they don't have to, they just do.) One big reason for homelessness that I keep hearing about (though I have no sources to back it up) in Austria is divorce. Alimony payments kan be high enough to prevent people from being able to afford a flat in Vienna. (This might be one factor why homeless people are predominantly male.)
– sgf
2 hours ago
Seems to be from 2014, is it a typo or wrong source?
– mathreadler
3 hours ago
Seems to be from 2014, is it a typo or wrong source?
– mathreadler
3 hours ago
Nobody has to die from hunger. That's true. But every winter homeless people freeze to death in Vienna. (Although strictly speaking, they don't have to, they just do.) One big reason for homelessness that I keep hearing about (though I have no sources to back it up) in Austria is divorce. Alimony payments kan be high enough to prevent people from being able to afford a flat in Vienna. (This might be one factor why homeless people are predominantly male.)
– sgf
2 hours ago
Nobody has to die from hunger. That's true. But every winter homeless people freeze to death in Vienna. (Although strictly speaking, they don't have to, they just do.) One big reason for homelessness that I keep hearing about (though I have no sources to back it up) in Austria is divorce. Alimony payments kan be high enough to prevent people from being able to afford a flat in Vienna. (This might be one factor why homeless people are predominantly male.)
– sgf
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
(This answer is from a UK perspective.)
One cause of people being homeless is a disparity between housing costs and locally available wages. There are some parts of the country where the number of low-paid jobs available greatly outstrips the number of affordable houses (either rental or mortgage-wise) available in the vicinity. (See, for example, this article.)
Because these people are in full-time employment, they may not qualify for many (or any) welfare benefits. Their choices are then:
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can afford the increased travel expenses.
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can find a job there that will pay enough for their housing.
- Live on the streets while trying to build up enough saving to afford somewhere to live.
The flip-side to this is, of course, other areas of the country where the housing is cheap, but the employment prospects dire – so people can afford a residence, but it may be paid for by either welfare benefits or begging.
Finally: Minimum wage in the UK for a 9–5 job, Monday to Friday is about £275. If you find it is possible to earn more than that in the same amount of time by begging, then you may decide that it make more financial sense to do so.
If you can make more than £375 per week by begging, then you're earning more than an EU-mandated 48-hour maximum working week does at minimum wage – at least one person has made over £500 per day by begging.
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Perhaps worth mentioning that certain demographics are more likely to become homeless in the UK, including LGBT+, and a disproportionate number of former military personnel. "Did you know that at least 10% of the UK homeless population is made up of ex-forces personnel?"
– inappropriateCode
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
(This answer is from a UK perspective.)
One cause of people being homeless is a disparity between housing costs and locally available wages. There are some parts of the country where the number of low-paid jobs available greatly outstrips the number of affordable houses (either rental or mortgage-wise) available in the vicinity. (See, for example, this article.)
Because these people are in full-time employment, they may not qualify for many (or any) welfare benefits. Their choices are then:
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can afford the increased travel expenses.
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can find a job there that will pay enough for their housing.
- Live on the streets while trying to build up enough saving to afford somewhere to live.
The flip-side to this is, of course, other areas of the country where the housing is cheap, but the employment prospects dire – so people can afford a residence, but it may be paid for by either welfare benefits or begging.
Finally: Minimum wage in the UK for a 9–5 job, Monday to Friday is about £275. If you find it is possible to earn more than that in the same amount of time by begging, then you may decide that it make more financial sense to do so.
If you can make more than £375 per week by begging, then you're earning more than an EU-mandated 48-hour maximum working week does at minimum wage – at least one person has made over £500 per day by begging.
New contributor
Chronocidal is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Perhaps worth mentioning that certain demographics are more likely to become homeless in the UK, including LGBT+, and a disproportionate number of former military personnel. "Did you know that at least 10% of the UK homeless population is made up of ex-forces personnel?"
– inappropriateCode
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
(This answer is from a UK perspective.)
One cause of people being homeless is a disparity between housing costs and locally available wages. There are some parts of the country where the number of low-paid jobs available greatly outstrips the number of affordable houses (either rental or mortgage-wise) available in the vicinity. (See, for example, this article.)
Because these people are in full-time employment, they may not qualify for many (or any) welfare benefits. Their choices are then:
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can afford the increased travel expenses.
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can find a job there that will pay enough for their housing.
- Live on the streets while trying to build up enough saving to afford somewhere to live.
The flip-side to this is, of course, other areas of the country where the housing is cheap, but the employment prospects dire – so people can afford a residence, but it may be paid for by either welfare benefits or begging.
Finally: Minimum wage in the UK for a 9–5 job, Monday to Friday is about £275. If you find it is possible to earn more than that in the same amount of time by begging, then you may decide that it make more financial sense to do so.
If you can make more than £375 per week by begging, then you're earning more than an EU-mandated 48-hour maximum working week does at minimum wage – at least one person has made over £500 per day by begging.
New contributor
Chronocidal is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
(This answer is from a UK perspective.)
One cause of people being homeless is a disparity between housing costs and locally available wages. There are some parts of the country where the number of low-paid jobs available greatly outstrips the number of affordable houses (either rental or mortgage-wise) available in the vicinity. (See, for example, this article.)
Because these people are in full-time employment, they may not qualify for many (or any) welfare benefits. Their choices are then:
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can afford the increased travel expenses.
- Find a cheaper residence further afield, and hope they can find a job there that will pay enough for their housing.
- Live on the streets while trying to build up enough saving to afford somewhere to live.
The flip-side to this is, of course, other areas of the country where the housing is cheap, but the employment prospects dire – so people can afford a residence, but it may be paid for by either welfare benefits or begging.
Finally: Minimum wage in the UK for a 9–5 job, Monday to Friday is about £275. If you find it is possible to earn more than that in the same amount of time by begging, then you may decide that it make more financial sense to do so.
If you can make more than £375 per week by begging, then you're earning more than an EU-mandated 48-hour maximum working week does at minimum wage – at least one person has made over £500 per day by begging.
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edited 4 hours ago
chirlu
3,45841326
3,45841326
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answered 5 hours ago
Chronocidal
1411
1411
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Perhaps worth mentioning that certain demographics are more likely to become homeless in the UK, including LGBT+, and a disproportionate number of former military personnel. "Did you know that at least 10% of the UK homeless population is made up of ex-forces personnel?"
– inappropriateCode
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Perhaps worth mentioning that certain demographics are more likely to become homeless in the UK, including LGBT+, and a disproportionate number of former military personnel. "Did you know that at least 10% of the UK homeless population is made up of ex-forces personnel?"
– inappropriateCode
2 hours ago
Perhaps worth mentioning that certain demographics are more likely to become homeless in the UK, including LGBT+, and a disproportionate number of former military personnel. "Did you know that at least 10% of the UK homeless population is made up of ex-forces personnel?"
– inappropriateCode
2 hours ago
Perhaps worth mentioning that certain demographics are more likely to become homeless in the UK, including LGBT+, and a disproportionate number of former military personnel. "Did you know that at least 10% of the UK homeless population is made up of ex-forces personnel?"
– inappropriateCode
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Eradicating homelessness would be great, but don't assume that a high-tax welfare system is not achieving great things because it is failing to achieve that one goal.
Speaking for the UK, most people here have never heard the term "medical bankruptcy" for example.
Our welfare systems are under great strain because of an ageing population and slow economic growth, but still disabled people get some help (not enough), as do out-of-work people, the long-term sick, etc. It's far from perfect but also far better than nothing.
2
People in Europe would be far worse off, if they hadn't built their welfare systems. For me as Austrian citizen, reading stories on the US healthcare system is at times simply apalling. If I think back on the injuries and sicknesses that have befallen me and my family over the time, "medical bankruptcy" and severe harm, if not premature death, would have been a certainty in a less well-built wellfare state. If you're dead, lower taxes mean zilch.
– Dohn Joe
3 hours ago
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Eradicating homelessness would be great, but don't assume that a high-tax welfare system is not achieving great things because it is failing to achieve that one goal.
Speaking for the UK, most people here have never heard the term "medical bankruptcy" for example.
Our welfare systems are under great strain because of an ageing population and slow economic growth, but still disabled people get some help (not enough), as do out-of-work people, the long-term sick, etc. It's far from perfect but also far better than nothing.
2
People in Europe would be far worse off, if they hadn't built their welfare systems. For me as Austrian citizen, reading stories on the US healthcare system is at times simply apalling. If I think back on the injuries and sicknesses that have befallen me and my family over the time, "medical bankruptcy" and severe harm, if not premature death, would have been a certainty in a less well-built wellfare state. If you're dead, lower taxes mean zilch.
– Dohn Joe
3 hours ago
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Eradicating homelessness would be great, but don't assume that a high-tax welfare system is not achieving great things because it is failing to achieve that one goal.
Speaking for the UK, most people here have never heard the term "medical bankruptcy" for example.
Our welfare systems are under great strain because of an ageing population and slow economic growth, but still disabled people get some help (not enough), as do out-of-work people, the long-term sick, etc. It's far from perfect but also far better than nothing.
Eradicating homelessness would be great, but don't assume that a high-tax welfare system is not achieving great things because it is failing to achieve that one goal.
Speaking for the UK, most people here have never heard the term "medical bankruptcy" for example.
Our welfare systems are under great strain because of an ageing population and slow economic growth, but still disabled people get some help (not enough), as do out-of-work people, the long-term sick, etc. It's far from perfect but also far better than nothing.
answered 4 hours ago
Martin
38738
38738
2
People in Europe would be far worse off, if they hadn't built their welfare systems. For me as Austrian citizen, reading stories on the US healthcare system is at times simply apalling. If I think back on the injuries and sicknesses that have befallen me and my family over the time, "medical bankruptcy" and severe harm, if not premature death, would have been a certainty in a less well-built wellfare state. If you're dead, lower taxes mean zilch.
– Dohn Joe
3 hours ago
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
2
People in Europe would be far worse off, if they hadn't built their welfare systems. For me as Austrian citizen, reading stories on the US healthcare system is at times simply apalling. If I think back on the injuries and sicknesses that have befallen me and my family over the time, "medical bankruptcy" and severe harm, if not premature death, would have been a certainty in a less well-built wellfare state. If you're dead, lower taxes mean zilch.
– Dohn Joe
3 hours ago
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
2
2
People in Europe would be far worse off, if they hadn't built their welfare systems. For me as Austrian citizen, reading stories on the US healthcare system is at times simply apalling. If I think back on the injuries and sicknesses that have befallen me and my family over the time, "medical bankruptcy" and severe harm, if not premature death, would have been a certainty in a less well-built wellfare state. If you're dead, lower taxes mean zilch.
– Dohn Joe
3 hours ago
People in Europe would be far worse off, if they hadn't built their welfare systems. For me as Austrian citizen, reading stories on the US healthcare system is at times simply apalling. If I think back on the injuries and sicknesses that have befallen me and my family over the time, "medical bankruptcy" and severe harm, if not premature death, would have been a certainty in a less well-built wellfare state. If you're dead, lower taxes mean zilch.
– Dohn Joe
3 hours ago
1
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Although the Asian countries you listed (South Korea, Japan, Hongkong) are among the countries with the least homeless population, the European countries also make it to the top of the list.
Thus, it seems to be more a matter of appearance than an actual disparity in the homeless population. In my country (Austria) there are certain politicians who try to ban begging in certain areas of the cities, e.g. central squares, shopping streets.
A disparity in how the society in various countries deals with homeless people and beggars, a beggar isn't necessarily homeless, might also explain a disparity in your observations.
In many European countries/cities there are street-newspapers, which are made and sold by people that struggle economically, i.e. not only homeless people but also people who live from social benefits and participate to earn a little extra. In such newspapers one often finds the biography of some participants.
There I read multiple times of people preferring to live on the streets and not in a shelter, due to the shelter's house-rules. Some shelters don't allow dogs, have separate dormitories for men and women, or don't allow alcohol on its premises. Thus, if you have a dog, a spouse, or an alcohol addiction, there are reasons to remain on the street.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Although the Asian countries you listed (South Korea, Japan, Hongkong) are among the countries with the least homeless population, the European countries also make it to the top of the list.
Thus, it seems to be more a matter of appearance than an actual disparity in the homeless population. In my country (Austria) there are certain politicians who try to ban begging in certain areas of the cities, e.g. central squares, shopping streets.
A disparity in how the society in various countries deals with homeless people and beggars, a beggar isn't necessarily homeless, might also explain a disparity in your observations.
In many European countries/cities there are street-newspapers, which are made and sold by people that struggle economically, i.e. not only homeless people but also people who live from social benefits and participate to earn a little extra. In such newspapers one often finds the biography of some participants.
There I read multiple times of people preferring to live on the streets and not in a shelter, due to the shelter's house-rules. Some shelters don't allow dogs, have separate dormitories for men and women, or don't allow alcohol on its premises. Thus, if you have a dog, a spouse, or an alcohol addiction, there are reasons to remain on the street.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Although the Asian countries you listed (South Korea, Japan, Hongkong) are among the countries with the least homeless population, the European countries also make it to the top of the list.
Thus, it seems to be more a matter of appearance than an actual disparity in the homeless population. In my country (Austria) there are certain politicians who try to ban begging in certain areas of the cities, e.g. central squares, shopping streets.
A disparity in how the society in various countries deals with homeless people and beggars, a beggar isn't necessarily homeless, might also explain a disparity in your observations.
In many European countries/cities there are street-newspapers, which are made and sold by people that struggle economically, i.e. not only homeless people but also people who live from social benefits and participate to earn a little extra. In such newspapers one often finds the biography of some participants.
There I read multiple times of people preferring to live on the streets and not in a shelter, due to the shelter's house-rules. Some shelters don't allow dogs, have separate dormitories for men and women, or don't allow alcohol on its premises. Thus, if you have a dog, a spouse, or an alcohol addiction, there are reasons to remain on the street.
Although the Asian countries you listed (South Korea, Japan, Hongkong) are among the countries with the least homeless population, the European countries also make it to the top of the list.
Thus, it seems to be more a matter of appearance than an actual disparity in the homeless population. In my country (Austria) there are certain politicians who try to ban begging in certain areas of the cities, e.g. central squares, shopping streets.
A disparity in how the society in various countries deals with homeless people and beggars, a beggar isn't necessarily homeless, might also explain a disparity in your observations.
In many European countries/cities there are street-newspapers, which are made and sold by people that struggle economically, i.e. not only homeless people but also people who live from social benefits and participate to earn a little extra. In such newspapers one often finds the biography of some participants.
There I read multiple times of people preferring to live on the streets and not in a shelter, due to the shelter's house-rules. Some shelters don't allow dogs, have separate dormitories for men and women, or don't allow alcohol on its premises. Thus, if you have a dog, a spouse, or an alcohol addiction, there are reasons to remain on the street.
answered 5 hours ago
Dohn Joe
72510
72510
add a comment |Â
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up vote
1
down vote
This is indeed a problem that has been increasing in recent years, and I can think of several reasons:
The traditional welfare systems have often been a bit too ambitious and therefore too expensive to maintain. The fundamental problem, I suspect, is that it can be very difficult to delimit what genuine needs should be covered by welfare, and politicians are understandably reluctant to take away help that is needed - should you stop caring for the elderly, or cancer patients, or ....? Instead they have tended to make benefits less accessible, by adding bureaucracy. This hits those hardest, who are most vulnerable, because they simply don't have the resources to handle it. These are the genuine homeless.
The other major factor, I believe, is organised crime: many of the beggars are, in effect, slaves, who have been smuggled in by people traffickers, and who are placed in strategic places by their owners; I see this happening myself from time to time - they are dropped off in the morning, hand over their takings some time during the day, and are picked up in the evening.
It is my belief, if you will forgive my rant, that the main reason why this is happening, is that governments in Europe have widely adopted what is loosely called "neo-liberalism", under which services, which traditionally were provided by the state, are now increasingly being privatised. This is convenient for the politicians - they can claim that this saves money, because private companies are more efficient, and when the services fail, it is no longer their responsibility.
@jeancallisti I'm not sure I understand your comment - which are side effects of what, exactly?
– j4nd3r53n
59 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
This is indeed a problem that has been increasing in recent years, and I can think of several reasons:
The traditional welfare systems have often been a bit too ambitious and therefore too expensive to maintain. The fundamental problem, I suspect, is that it can be very difficult to delimit what genuine needs should be covered by welfare, and politicians are understandably reluctant to take away help that is needed - should you stop caring for the elderly, or cancer patients, or ....? Instead they have tended to make benefits less accessible, by adding bureaucracy. This hits those hardest, who are most vulnerable, because they simply don't have the resources to handle it. These are the genuine homeless.
The other major factor, I believe, is organised crime: many of the beggars are, in effect, slaves, who have been smuggled in by people traffickers, and who are placed in strategic places by their owners; I see this happening myself from time to time - they are dropped off in the morning, hand over their takings some time during the day, and are picked up in the evening.
It is my belief, if you will forgive my rant, that the main reason why this is happening, is that governments in Europe have widely adopted what is loosely called "neo-liberalism", under which services, which traditionally were provided by the state, are now increasingly being privatised. This is convenient for the politicians - they can claim that this saves money, because private companies are more efficient, and when the services fail, it is no longer their responsibility.
@jeancallisti I'm not sure I understand your comment - which are side effects of what, exactly?
– j4nd3r53n
59 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
This is indeed a problem that has been increasing in recent years, and I can think of several reasons:
The traditional welfare systems have often been a bit too ambitious and therefore too expensive to maintain. The fundamental problem, I suspect, is that it can be very difficult to delimit what genuine needs should be covered by welfare, and politicians are understandably reluctant to take away help that is needed - should you stop caring for the elderly, or cancer patients, or ....? Instead they have tended to make benefits less accessible, by adding bureaucracy. This hits those hardest, who are most vulnerable, because they simply don't have the resources to handle it. These are the genuine homeless.
The other major factor, I believe, is organised crime: many of the beggars are, in effect, slaves, who have been smuggled in by people traffickers, and who are placed in strategic places by their owners; I see this happening myself from time to time - they are dropped off in the morning, hand over their takings some time during the day, and are picked up in the evening.
It is my belief, if you will forgive my rant, that the main reason why this is happening, is that governments in Europe have widely adopted what is loosely called "neo-liberalism", under which services, which traditionally were provided by the state, are now increasingly being privatised. This is convenient for the politicians - they can claim that this saves money, because private companies are more efficient, and when the services fail, it is no longer their responsibility.
This is indeed a problem that has been increasing in recent years, and I can think of several reasons:
The traditional welfare systems have often been a bit too ambitious and therefore too expensive to maintain. The fundamental problem, I suspect, is that it can be very difficult to delimit what genuine needs should be covered by welfare, and politicians are understandably reluctant to take away help that is needed - should you stop caring for the elderly, or cancer patients, or ....? Instead they have tended to make benefits less accessible, by adding bureaucracy. This hits those hardest, who are most vulnerable, because they simply don't have the resources to handle it. These are the genuine homeless.
The other major factor, I believe, is organised crime: many of the beggars are, in effect, slaves, who have been smuggled in by people traffickers, and who are placed in strategic places by their owners; I see this happening myself from time to time - they are dropped off in the morning, hand over their takings some time during the day, and are picked up in the evening.
It is my belief, if you will forgive my rant, that the main reason why this is happening, is that governments in Europe have widely adopted what is loosely called "neo-liberalism", under which services, which traditionally were provided by the state, are now increasingly being privatised. This is convenient for the politicians - they can claim that this saves money, because private companies are more efficient, and when the services fail, it is no longer their responsibility.
answered 4 hours ago


j4nd3r53n
3355
3355
@jeancallisti I'm not sure I understand your comment - which are side effects of what, exactly?
– j4nd3r53n
59 mins ago
add a comment |Â
@jeancallisti I'm not sure I understand your comment - which are side effects of what, exactly?
– j4nd3r53n
59 mins ago
@jeancallisti I'm not sure I understand your comment - which are side effects of what, exactly?
– j4nd3r53n
59 mins ago
@jeancallisti I'm not sure I understand your comment - which are side effects of what, exactly?
– j4nd3r53n
59 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Being in Germany, and having worked with such people during civil service:
In most cases, and exceptions notwithstanding, I'd say it is not related to taxes, welfare or any other ("external") reason at all.
The welfare system is good, but some people are beyond it. There are people who are absolutely not capable to even claim the extensive free help they are entitled to. They might not be able to understand their situation (due to, lacking a better word, inadequate intelligence; or communication skills; or other reasons). Or they may understand it, but their character might be such that they cannot/will not accept any kind of help. Maybe they are by nature distrustful and view anybody with some kind of authority, even if it is just a social worker, as an enemy.
I have also, in the distant past, worked with or at least witnessed people living in social housing. Let me assure you, that kind of living is not fun at all. It's not like they are just like everybody else, just without going to work. They live absolutely miserably; and everybody I met was in a permanent state of deep clinical depression (which might be biased by me having worked for a social organization caring for such people, obviously). Sure, there may be the occasional freeloader living a grand life while abusing the system, but I'd say the type of beggars you see on the street are not in that category.
Obviously another exception would be organized or professional beggars; I know little about them, i.e., if it is worthwhile, and if you get more money begging than from welfare. There may also be other aspects involved (pimping, pressure from family or "friends"...).
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Being in Germany, and having worked with such people during civil service:
In most cases, and exceptions notwithstanding, I'd say it is not related to taxes, welfare or any other ("external") reason at all.
The welfare system is good, but some people are beyond it. There are people who are absolutely not capable to even claim the extensive free help they are entitled to. They might not be able to understand their situation (due to, lacking a better word, inadequate intelligence; or communication skills; or other reasons). Or they may understand it, but their character might be such that they cannot/will not accept any kind of help. Maybe they are by nature distrustful and view anybody with some kind of authority, even if it is just a social worker, as an enemy.
I have also, in the distant past, worked with or at least witnessed people living in social housing. Let me assure you, that kind of living is not fun at all. It's not like they are just like everybody else, just without going to work. They live absolutely miserably; and everybody I met was in a permanent state of deep clinical depression (which might be biased by me having worked for a social organization caring for such people, obviously). Sure, there may be the occasional freeloader living a grand life while abusing the system, but I'd say the type of beggars you see on the street are not in that category.
Obviously another exception would be organized or professional beggars; I know little about them, i.e., if it is worthwhile, and if you get more money begging than from welfare. There may also be other aspects involved (pimping, pressure from family or "friends"...).
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Being in Germany, and having worked with such people during civil service:
In most cases, and exceptions notwithstanding, I'd say it is not related to taxes, welfare or any other ("external") reason at all.
The welfare system is good, but some people are beyond it. There are people who are absolutely not capable to even claim the extensive free help they are entitled to. They might not be able to understand their situation (due to, lacking a better word, inadequate intelligence; or communication skills; or other reasons). Or they may understand it, but their character might be such that they cannot/will not accept any kind of help. Maybe they are by nature distrustful and view anybody with some kind of authority, even if it is just a social worker, as an enemy.
I have also, in the distant past, worked with or at least witnessed people living in social housing. Let me assure you, that kind of living is not fun at all. It's not like they are just like everybody else, just without going to work. They live absolutely miserably; and everybody I met was in a permanent state of deep clinical depression (which might be biased by me having worked for a social organization caring for such people, obviously). Sure, there may be the occasional freeloader living a grand life while abusing the system, but I'd say the type of beggars you see on the street are not in that category.
Obviously another exception would be organized or professional beggars; I know little about them, i.e., if it is worthwhile, and if you get more money begging than from welfare. There may also be other aspects involved (pimping, pressure from family or "friends"...).
Being in Germany, and having worked with such people during civil service:
In most cases, and exceptions notwithstanding, I'd say it is not related to taxes, welfare or any other ("external") reason at all.
The welfare system is good, but some people are beyond it. There are people who are absolutely not capable to even claim the extensive free help they are entitled to. They might not be able to understand their situation (due to, lacking a better word, inadequate intelligence; or communication skills; or other reasons). Or they may understand it, but their character might be such that they cannot/will not accept any kind of help. Maybe they are by nature distrustful and view anybody with some kind of authority, even if it is just a social worker, as an enemy.
I have also, in the distant past, worked with or at least witnessed people living in social housing. Let me assure you, that kind of living is not fun at all. It's not like they are just like everybody else, just without going to work. They live absolutely miserably; and everybody I met was in a permanent state of deep clinical depression (which might be biased by me having worked for a social organization caring for such people, obviously). Sure, there may be the occasional freeloader living a grand life while abusing the system, but I'd say the type of beggars you see on the street are not in that category.
Obviously another exception would be organized or professional beggars; I know little about them, i.e., if it is worthwhile, and if you get more money begging than from welfare. There may also be other aspects involved (pimping, pressure from family or "friends"...).
answered 2 hours ago
AnoE
1366
1366
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Two reasons :
- "New" homeless. The number of unemployed people (or people with very low income) is growing extremely fast since the 2008 stock market krach. So the social welfare cannot keep up (by "social welfare" I mean the branch in charge of finding everyone an affordable home). Some people might eventually get access to their welfare rights, but those are delivered too slowly while the number of requests grows too fast. In the meantime, those people have to remain on the streets. There are also more and more refugees who are not in a "temporary" state (they have no chance of ever going back home) but fail to obtain the refugee status. So they just stay on the streets, with no social welfare rights.
- Severe entrance barrier. Because the number of requests keeps growing and most European states are switching faster to private insurance and welfare systems, the remaining public welfare has been torn apart in the last 30 years by more and more insane new rules and heavy paperwork. It's the vicious circle of : "we don't have much resources to provide so let's spend all the resources into controlling that the resources are well spent". That creates a maze of paperwork for homeless people who are already fragile. A portion of them just give up and let themselves slide down onto the street life. That's what gives traction to the sort of speech "they're homeless because they want to".
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Two reasons :
- "New" homeless. The number of unemployed people (or people with very low income) is growing extremely fast since the 2008 stock market krach. So the social welfare cannot keep up (by "social welfare" I mean the branch in charge of finding everyone an affordable home). Some people might eventually get access to their welfare rights, but those are delivered too slowly while the number of requests grows too fast. In the meantime, those people have to remain on the streets. There are also more and more refugees who are not in a "temporary" state (they have no chance of ever going back home) but fail to obtain the refugee status. So they just stay on the streets, with no social welfare rights.
- Severe entrance barrier. Because the number of requests keeps growing and most European states are switching faster to private insurance and welfare systems, the remaining public welfare has been torn apart in the last 30 years by more and more insane new rules and heavy paperwork. It's the vicious circle of : "we don't have much resources to provide so let's spend all the resources into controlling that the resources are well spent". That creates a maze of paperwork for homeless people who are already fragile. A portion of them just give up and let themselves slide down onto the street life. That's what gives traction to the sort of speech "they're homeless because they want to".
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Two reasons :
- "New" homeless. The number of unemployed people (or people with very low income) is growing extremely fast since the 2008 stock market krach. So the social welfare cannot keep up (by "social welfare" I mean the branch in charge of finding everyone an affordable home). Some people might eventually get access to their welfare rights, but those are delivered too slowly while the number of requests grows too fast. In the meantime, those people have to remain on the streets. There are also more and more refugees who are not in a "temporary" state (they have no chance of ever going back home) but fail to obtain the refugee status. So they just stay on the streets, with no social welfare rights.
- Severe entrance barrier. Because the number of requests keeps growing and most European states are switching faster to private insurance and welfare systems, the remaining public welfare has been torn apart in the last 30 years by more and more insane new rules and heavy paperwork. It's the vicious circle of : "we don't have much resources to provide so let's spend all the resources into controlling that the resources are well spent". That creates a maze of paperwork for homeless people who are already fragile. A portion of them just give up and let themselves slide down onto the street life. That's what gives traction to the sort of speech "they're homeless because they want to".
Two reasons :
- "New" homeless. The number of unemployed people (or people with very low income) is growing extremely fast since the 2008 stock market krach. So the social welfare cannot keep up (by "social welfare" I mean the branch in charge of finding everyone an affordable home). Some people might eventually get access to their welfare rights, but those are delivered too slowly while the number of requests grows too fast. In the meantime, those people have to remain on the streets. There are also more and more refugees who are not in a "temporary" state (they have no chance of ever going back home) but fail to obtain the refugee status. So they just stay on the streets, with no social welfare rights.
- Severe entrance barrier. Because the number of requests keeps growing and most European states are switching faster to private insurance and welfare systems, the remaining public welfare has been torn apart in the last 30 years by more and more insane new rules and heavy paperwork. It's the vicious circle of : "we don't have much resources to provide so let's spend all the resources into controlling that the resources are well spent". That creates a maze of paperwork for homeless people who are already fragile. A portion of them just give up and let themselves slide down onto the street life. That's what gives traction to the sort of speech "they're homeless because they want to".
edited 3 hours ago
answered 3 hours ago
jeancallisti
593
593
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
It's worth considering that homeless people aren't usually represented politically. This makes them invisible to the nation's decision makers, who are influenced by people who can afford to bother them. Without a physical address applying political pressure becomes much more difficult. Welfare state or not, the homeless are not able to petition government for support.
While there have always been plenty of poor people, the fact they have a home and/or job helps them acquire political representation, which helps them influence government in their favour. Either personal communication with their local politician via letters, emails, telephone, or organisational help via unions and other charities.
This means that when the nation goes through periods of increased poverty, government becomes aware of it through feedback from their constituents and political movements, and there's a often a considerable weight of numbers behind such feedback. This helps those groups which have petitioned government get help: importantly, not everyone benefits. The homeless do not have the ability to be politically demanding.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
It's worth considering that homeless people aren't usually represented politically. This makes them invisible to the nation's decision makers, who are influenced by people who can afford to bother them. Without a physical address applying political pressure becomes much more difficult. Welfare state or not, the homeless are not able to petition government for support.
While there have always been plenty of poor people, the fact they have a home and/or job helps them acquire political representation, which helps them influence government in their favour. Either personal communication with their local politician via letters, emails, telephone, or organisational help via unions and other charities.
This means that when the nation goes through periods of increased poverty, government becomes aware of it through feedback from their constituents and political movements, and there's a often a considerable weight of numbers behind such feedback. This helps those groups which have petitioned government get help: importantly, not everyone benefits. The homeless do not have the ability to be politically demanding.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
It's worth considering that homeless people aren't usually represented politically. This makes them invisible to the nation's decision makers, who are influenced by people who can afford to bother them. Without a physical address applying political pressure becomes much more difficult. Welfare state or not, the homeless are not able to petition government for support.
While there have always been plenty of poor people, the fact they have a home and/or job helps them acquire political representation, which helps them influence government in their favour. Either personal communication with their local politician via letters, emails, telephone, or organisational help via unions and other charities.
This means that when the nation goes through periods of increased poverty, government becomes aware of it through feedback from their constituents and political movements, and there's a often a considerable weight of numbers behind such feedback. This helps those groups which have petitioned government get help: importantly, not everyone benefits. The homeless do not have the ability to be politically demanding.
It's worth considering that homeless people aren't usually represented politically. This makes them invisible to the nation's decision makers, who are influenced by people who can afford to bother them. Without a physical address applying political pressure becomes much more difficult. Welfare state or not, the homeless are not able to petition government for support.
While there have always been plenty of poor people, the fact they have a home and/or job helps them acquire political representation, which helps them influence government in their favour. Either personal communication with their local politician via letters, emails, telephone, or organisational help via unions and other charities.
This means that when the nation goes through periods of increased poverty, government becomes aware of it through feedback from their constituents and political movements, and there's a often a considerable weight of numbers behind such feedback. This helps those groups which have petitioned government get help: importantly, not everyone benefits. The homeless do not have the ability to be politically demanding.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
inappropriateCode
5,97621233
5,97621233
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
What a lot of people do not realise is that taxes in Europe are not very high, compared to the services they provide. In fact, it may be argued they are much higher in the United States, once the cost for health insurance, retirement, lunches, etc. are included.
When people compare taxation, usually it is done by aggregate, how much taxes are paid in compared to the GDP, etc. This approach fails to account for what services are provided. Health insurance is not considered a tax in the US, and it is usually not included. Same goes or 401K contributions, etc.
Therefore, it is not true that in Europe people pay more taxes, but expenses that are not considered taxes in the US are taxes in Europe. However, this does not mean there is much more money available for the homeless, simply that I do not need to take a 401K or similar, because the "higher" taxes will pay for my retirement (but not necessarily for a home for an unemployed).
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
If you read carefully my answer you would have understood it does. The premise is: Europe has high taxes, why so many homeless? The answer: the premise is false, taxes are not high.
– user
2 hours ago
1
But that's not actually what the question is about. The question is why there are homeless people in Europe.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
What a lot of people do not realise is that taxes in Europe are not very high, compared to the services they provide. In fact, it may be argued they are much higher in the United States, once the cost for health insurance, retirement, lunches, etc. are included.
When people compare taxation, usually it is done by aggregate, how much taxes are paid in compared to the GDP, etc. This approach fails to account for what services are provided. Health insurance is not considered a tax in the US, and it is usually not included. Same goes or 401K contributions, etc.
Therefore, it is not true that in Europe people pay more taxes, but expenses that are not considered taxes in the US are taxes in Europe. However, this does not mean there is much more money available for the homeless, simply that I do not need to take a 401K or similar, because the "higher" taxes will pay for my retirement (but not necessarily for a home for an unemployed).
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
If you read carefully my answer you would have understood it does. The premise is: Europe has high taxes, why so many homeless? The answer: the premise is false, taxes are not high.
– user
2 hours ago
1
But that's not actually what the question is about. The question is why there are homeless people in Europe.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
What a lot of people do not realise is that taxes in Europe are not very high, compared to the services they provide. In fact, it may be argued they are much higher in the United States, once the cost for health insurance, retirement, lunches, etc. are included.
When people compare taxation, usually it is done by aggregate, how much taxes are paid in compared to the GDP, etc. This approach fails to account for what services are provided. Health insurance is not considered a tax in the US, and it is usually not included. Same goes or 401K contributions, etc.
Therefore, it is not true that in Europe people pay more taxes, but expenses that are not considered taxes in the US are taxes in Europe. However, this does not mean there is much more money available for the homeless, simply that I do not need to take a 401K or similar, because the "higher" taxes will pay for my retirement (but not necessarily for a home for an unemployed).
What a lot of people do not realise is that taxes in Europe are not very high, compared to the services they provide. In fact, it may be argued they are much higher in the United States, once the cost for health insurance, retirement, lunches, etc. are included.
When people compare taxation, usually it is done by aggregate, how much taxes are paid in compared to the GDP, etc. This approach fails to account for what services are provided. Health insurance is not considered a tax in the US, and it is usually not included. Same goes or 401K contributions, etc.
Therefore, it is not true that in Europe people pay more taxes, but expenses that are not considered taxes in the US are taxes in Europe. However, this does not mean there is much more money available for the homeless, simply that I do not need to take a 401K or similar, because the "higher" taxes will pay for my retirement (but not necessarily for a home for an unemployed).
answered 2 hours ago
user
1674
1674
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
If you read carefully my answer you would have understood it does. The premise is: Europe has high taxes, why so many homeless? The answer: the premise is false, taxes are not high.
– user
2 hours ago
1
But that's not actually what the question is about. The question is why there are homeless people in Europe.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
If you read carefully my answer you would have understood it does. The premise is: Europe has high taxes, why so many homeless? The answer: the premise is false, taxes are not high.
– user
2 hours ago
1
But that's not actually what the question is about. The question is why there are homeless people in Europe.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
1
1
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
This answer does not explain the reasons for homelessness in Europe. Please try to answer the question. Answers which do not address the question might get downvoted and eventually deleted.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
If you read carefully my answer you would have understood it does. The premise is: Europe has high taxes, why so many homeless? The answer: the premise is false, taxes are not high.
– user
2 hours ago
If you read carefully my answer you would have understood it does. The premise is: Europe has high taxes, why so many homeless? The answer: the premise is false, taxes are not high.
– user
2 hours ago
1
1
But that's not actually what the question is about. The question is why there are homeless people in Europe.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
But that's not actually what the question is about. The question is why there are homeless people in Europe.
– Philipp♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
Another answer is that the people are only appearing to be homeless. In Manchester UK I observed many people apparently begging, but frequently in extended discussions with a pair of young and physically-fit men (a different pair in each case).
Clearly the 'beggar' and the men knew one another well and had plenty to discuss, despite appearing to occupy very distinct social groups.
I surmise that the beggars are part of some sort of street operation, probably criminal. A local suggested to me that it was drug distribution, but that would be risky, as the beggars are vulnerable to random searches by the police.
New contributor
Michael is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
5
Welcome to Politics.SE! Unfortunately, I'm not sure your gut feeling about a few homeless guys in one city really answers the question about homeless people across the entirety of Europe. (FWIW, from my own interactions with homeless people, they're more likely to be users than dealers.)
– F1Krazy
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
Another answer is that the people are only appearing to be homeless. In Manchester UK I observed many people apparently begging, but frequently in extended discussions with a pair of young and physically-fit men (a different pair in each case).
Clearly the 'beggar' and the men knew one another well and had plenty to discuss, despite appearing to occupy very distinct social groups.
I surmise that the beggars are part of some sort of street operation, probably criminal. A local suggested to me that it was drug distribution, but that would be risky, as the beggars are vulnerable to random searches by the police.
New contributor
Michael is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
5
Welcome to Politics.SE! Unfortunately, I'm not sure your gut feeling about a few homeless guys in one city really answers the question about homeless people across the entirety of Europe. (FWIW, from my own interactions with homeless people, they're more likely to be users than dealers.)
– F1Krazy
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
up vote
-2
down vote
Another answer is that the people are only appearing to be homeless. In Manchester UK I observed many people apparently begging, but frequently in extended discussions with a pair of young and physically-fit men (a different pair in each case).
Clearly the 'beggar' and the men knew one another well and had plenty to discuss, despite appearing to occupy very distinct social groups.
I surmise that the beggars are part of some sort of street operation, probably criminal. A local suggested to me that it was drug distribution, but that would be risky, as the beggars are vulnerable to random searches by the police.
New contributor
Michael is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Another answer is that the people are only appearing to be homeless. In Manchester UK I observed many people apparently begging, but frequently in extended discussions with a pair of young and physically-fit men (a different pair in each case).
Clearly the 'beggar' and the men knew one another well and had plenty to discuss, despite appearing to occupy very distinct social groups.
I surmise that the beggars are part of some sort of street operation, probably criminal. A local suggested to me that it was drug distribution, but that would be risky, as the beggars are vulnerable to random searches by the police.
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answered 9 hours ago
Michael
1
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5
Welcome to Politics.SE! Unfortunately, I'm not sure your gut feeling about a few homeless guys in one city really answers the question about homeless people across the entirety of Europe. (FWIW, from my own interactions with homeless people, they're more likely to be users than dealers.)
– F1Krazy
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
5
Welcome to Politics.SE! Unfortunately, I'm not sure your gut feeling about a few homeless guys in one city really answers the question about homeless people across the entirety of Europe. (FWIW, from my own interactions with homeless people, they're more likely to be users than dealers.)
– F1Krazy
7 hours ago
5
5
Welcome to Politics.SE! Unfortunately, I'm not sure your gut feeling about a few homeless guys in one city really answers the question about homeless people across the entirety of Europe. (FWIW, from my own interactions with homeless people, they're more likely to be users than dealers.)
– F1Krazy
7 hours ago
Welcome to Politics.SE! Unfortunately, I'm not sure your gut feeling about a few homeless guys in one city really answers the question about homeless people across the entirety of Europe. (FWIW, from my own interactions with homeless people, they're more likely to be users than dealers.)
– F1Krazy
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
protected by Philipp♦ 4 hours ago
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1
I don't have an answer, but there is a related Quora post
– Bad_Bishop
22 hours ago
15
"so many" compared to where? Also: "European cities" is really a quite meaningless category for this kind of question.
– Martin Ba
20 hours ago
@MartinBa As I wrote in the comments to some answers, compared to Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong. Singapore also has fewer. I meant Western Europe and Scandinavia in the body of the question but if the title is misleading, feel free to edit it.
– Blaszard
20 hours ago
@Blaszard this question is based upon your perception and needs some data, such as: homelessness rates in all the regions you mention; and a distinction between begging and homelessness. Some countries hide their social problems away in ghettos that tourists wouldn't visit. Others hide them by manipulating data. Right now this question is too broad and under-researched.
– Aaron F
2 hours ago