Can a casual investor effectively predict the direction of the stock market?
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Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
The reason I'm asking this is because certain family members are pushing me to "get into" the stock market. They claim that I'm a very logical and quantitatively adept thinker, so I could do well. I have a full time job that's nowhere near the finance industry, and I'm nearly illiterate when it comes to finance. I'm very skeptical of the claim that my quantitative capacity will be of any use to me in investing in the stock market, unless I devote an inordinate amount of time.
stocks stock-markets
New contributor
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
The reason I'm asking this is because certain family members are pushing me to "get into" the stock market. They claim that I'm a very logical and quantitatively adept thinker, so I could do well. I have a full time job that's nowhere near the finance industry, and I'm nearly illiterate when it comes to finance. I'm very skeptical of the claim that my quantitative capacity will be of any use to me in investing in the stock market, unless I devote an inordinate amount of time.
stocks stock-markets
New contributor
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Thanks, that seems like good advice. I'm not sure, yet, what I should cut. I want to know, specifically, the extent of the validity of Yudkowsky's argument, since that is what spurred me to ask this in the first place. It's possible, for example, that his claim is correct but his arguments are flawed. If so, I still want to know that. Given that, it's not clear to me right now what I should cut. But I will definitely try and make it much shorter. Also, did you mean my second-to-last paragraph? That's where the bolded question is.
â Bridgeburners
4 hours ago
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Okay, your point is well taken. Thanks.
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Can an average person become the poker champion of the world? An Olympic gold medalist?
â misantroop
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
The reason I'm asking this is because certain family members are pushing me to "get into" the stock market. They claim that I'm a very logical and quantitatively adept thinker, so I could do well. I have a full time job that's nowhere near the finance industry, and I'm nearly illiterate when it comes to finance. I'm very skeptical of the claim that my quantitative capacity will be of any use to me in investing in the stock market, unless I devote an inordinate amount of time.
stocks stock-markets
New contributor
Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
The reason I'm asking this is because certain family members are pushing me to "get into" the stock market. They claim that I'm a very logical and quantitatively adept thinker, so I could do well. I have a full time job that's nowhere near the finance industry, and I'm nearly illiterate when it comes to finance. I'm very skeptical of the claim that my quantitative capacity will be of any use to me in investing in the stock market, unless I devote an inordinate amount of time.
stocks stock-markets
stocks stock-markets
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New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
Grade 'Eh' Bacon
17.3k74565
17.3k74565
New contributor
asked 4 hours ago
Bridgeburners
1163
1163
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New contributor
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Thanks, that seems like good advice. I'm not sure, yet, what I should cut. I want to know, specifically, the extent of the validity of Yudkowsky's argument, since that is what spurred me to ask this in the first place. It's possible, for example, that his claim is correct but his arguments are flawed. If so, I still want to know that. Given that, it's not clear to me right now what I should cut. But I will definitely try and make it much shorter. Also, did you mean my second-to-last paragraph? That's where the bolded question is.
â Bridgeburners
4 hours ago
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Okay, your point is well taken. Thanks.
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Can an average person become the poker champion of the world? An Olympic gold medalist?
â misantroop
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Thanks, that seems like good advice. I'm not sure, yet, what I should cut. I want to know, specifically, the extent of the validity of Yudkowsky's argument, since that is what spurred me to ask this in the first place. It's possible, for example, that his claim is correct but his arguments are flawed. If so, I still want to know that. Given that, it's not clear to me right now what I should cut. But I will definitely try and make it much shorter. Also, did you mean my second-to-last paragraph? That's where the bolded question is.
â Bridgeburners
4 hours ago
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Okay, your point is well taken. Thanks.
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Can an average person become the poker champion of the world? An Olympic gold medalist?
â misantroop
1 hour ago
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Thanks, that seems like good advice. I'm not sure, yet, what I should cut. I want to know, specifically, the extent of the validity of Yudkowsky's argument, since that is what spurred me to ask this in the first place. It's possible, for example, that his claim is correct but his arguments are flawed. If so, I still want to know that. Given that, it's not clear to me right now what I should cut. But I will definitely try and make it much shorter. Also, did you mean my second-to-last paragraph? That's where the bolded question is.
â Bridgeburners
4 hours ago
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Thanks, that seems like good advice. I'm not sure, yet, what I should cut. I want to know, specifically, the extent of the validity of Yudkowsky's argument, since that is what spurred me to ask this in the first place. It's possible, for example, that his claim is correct but his arguments are flawed. If so, I still want to know that. Given that, it's not clear to me right now what I should cut. But I will definitely try and make it much shorter. Also, did you mean my second-to-last paragraph? That's where the bolded question is.
â Bridgeburners
4 hours ago
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Okay, your point is well taken. Thanks.
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Okay, your point is well taken. Thanks.
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Can an average person become the poker champion of the world? An Olympic gold medalist?
â misantroop
1 hour ago
Can an average person become the poker champion of the world? An Olympic gold medalist?
â misantroop
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
Predicting the direction of the market, and prices, is easy. I'll do it right now: "The market will go up." Looking at the S&P 500, for 26 of the last 31 years, I would've been correct. This is, in fact, the idea behind index funds: the market will on average go up, so if you invest in the market as a whole (rather than in individual companies), your investment will go up as well.
Most small time investors (and, factoring in expenses, most clients of hedge funds) who actively trade individual stocks will underperform the market over long periods of time; it turns out that active trading is hard and requires a lot of time, skill, and effort to do better than average. But doing average is just fine, and requires almost no effort.
Thanks. So why do casual investors, who don't spent a ton of time doing financial research, trade in individual stocks? Are they misguided? Do they know that it's worse on average, but still enjoy the higher volatility (like casino players who know the expected value is against them but still enjoy the thrill of gambling)? Do many of them have friends who do have above-average insights in the market? Or is there some incentive to doing this that I have overlooked?
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Because it's exciting and gives them a sense of control over their financial destiny. They will also learn whether they are able to "beat" the market in the long run (hint: 90% of them won't). I say this as a full-time daytrader.
â misantroop
1 hour ago
@Bridgeburners arguably, it's a mix of greed and overconfidence... for some people, it's a hobby.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
53 mins ago
@misantroop I'm not sure you fit in with the "casual investors"
â 0xFEE1DEAD
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Usually the prices from stocks reflect the knowledge about the market, mostly value of the company and hopes about the future process of this economy.
Even professionell traders fail in average, to beat index funds who ain't really trading.
There are trading bots, who try to buy/sell before the knowledge reach the market in scanning new portals all the time - and you need to act like that to get an advantage over the market knowledge ... Even when you fail for tesla april jokes like that.
Personally i think patience and diversification, is more important while investing in stock market if you keep this in mind and invest money you don't need now you normally beat loans from papers and your bank. The big indexes, always had very good process over a 7 year rhythm even with big crisises.
Normal people investing, often make the mistake that they invest when the market is running well for a while and sell during the crisis instead of waiting for better times. Sometimes it is good, to invest those money and forget about it. Or they invest in a sector they believe in, if this sectors runs well you gain lot of money but like the dotcom crisis there is a high risk to fail if this sector gets big problems.
Edit: I forget the "risk" as a major factor for the price. Simply said, if you buy blue ship (very big companies) you gain a steady income with low risk, but usually you ain't make quick money. The higher the risk, the higher should be the income oppurtunitys and the more important gets diservication.
New contributor
+1 for "patience and diversification". Also, good point on risk vs reward.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
49 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
Predicting the direction of the market, and prices, is easy. I'll do it right now: "The market will go up." Looking at the S&P 500, for 26 of the last 31 years, I would've been correct. This is, in fact, the idea behind index funds: the market will on average go up, so if you invest in the market as a whole (rather than in individual companies), your investment will go up as well.
Most small time investors (and, factoring in expenses, most clients of hedge funds) who actively trade individual stocks will underperform the market over long periods of time; it turns out that active trading is hard and requires a lot of time, skill, and effort to do better than average. But doing average is just fine, and requires almost no effort.
Thanks. So why do casual investors, who don't spent a ton of time doing financial research, trade in individual stocks? Are they misguided? Do they know that it's worse on average, but still enjoy the higher volatility (like casino players who know the expected value is against them but still enjoy the thrill of gambling)? Do many of them have friends who do have above-average insights in the market? Or is there some incentive to doing this that I have overlooked?
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Because it's exciting and gives them a sense of control over their financial destiny. They will also learn whether they are able to "beat" the market in the long run (hint: 90% of them won't). I say this as a full-time daytrader.
â misantroop
1 hour ago
@Bridgeburners arguably, it's a mix of greed and overconfidence... for some people, it's a hobby.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
53 mins ago
@misantroop I'm not sure you fit in with the "casual investors"
â 0xFEE1DEAD
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
Predicting the direction of the market, and prices, is easy. I'll do it right now: "The market will go up." Looking at the S&P 500, for 26 of the last 31 years, I would've been correct. This is, in fact, the idea behind index funds: the market will on average go up, so if you invest in the market as a whole (rather than in individual companies), your investment will go up as well.
Most small time investors (and, factoring in expenses, most clients of hedge funds) who actively trade individual stocks will underperform the market over long periods of time; it turns out that active trading is hard and requires a lot of time, skill, and effort to do better than average. But doing average is just fine, and requires almost no effort.
Thanks. So why do casual investors, who don't spent a ton of time doing financial research, trade in individual stocks? Are they misguided? Do they know that it's worse on average, but still enjoy the higher volatility (like casino players who know the expected value is against them but still enjoy the thrill of gambling)? Do many of them have friends who do have above-average insights in the market? Or is there some incentive to doing this that I have overlooked?
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Because it's exciting and gives them a sense of control over their financial destiny. They will also learn whether they are able to "beat" the market in the long run (hint: 90% of them won't). I say this as a full-time daytrader.
â misantroop
1 hour ago
@Bridgeburners arguably, it's a mix of greed and overconfidence... for some people, it's a hobby.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
53 mins ago
@misantroop I'm not sure you fit in with the "casual investors"
â 0xFEE1DEAD
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
Predicting the direction of the market, and prices, is easy. I'll do it right now: "The market will go up." Looking at the S&P 500, for 26 of the last 31 years, I would've been correct. This is, in fact, the idea behind index funds: the market will on average go up, so if you invest in the market as a whole (rather than in individual companies), your investment will go up as well.
Most small time investors (and, factoring in expenses, most clients of hedge funds) who actively trade individual stocks will underperform the market over long periods of time; it turns out that active trading is hard and requires a lot of time, skill, and effort to do better than average. But doing average is just fine, and requires almost no effort.
Is the stock market an efficient market, with assets whose direction of change in prices cannot be predicted by casual investors?
Predicting the direction of the market, and prices, is easy. I'll do it right now: "The market will go up." Looking at the S&P 500, for 26 of the last 31 years, I would've been correct. This is, in fact, the idea behind index funds: the market will on average go up, so if you invest in the market as a whole (rather than in individual companies), your investment will go up as well.
Most small time investors (and, factoring in expenses, most clients of hedge funds) who actively trade individual stocks will underperform the market over long periods of time; it turns out that active trading is hard and requires a lot of time, skill, and effort to do better than average. But doing average is just fine, and requires almost no effort.
answered 2 hours ago
Magua
4,034621
4,034621
Thanks. So why do casual investors, who don't spent a ton of time doing financial research, trade in individual stocks? Are they misguided? Do they know that it's worse on average, but still enjoy the higher volatility (like casino players who know the expected value is against them but still enjoy the thrill of gambling)? Do many of them have friends who do have above-average insights in the market? Or is there some incentive to doing this that I have overlooked?
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Because it's exciting and gives them a sense of control over their financial destiny. They will also learn whether they are able to "beat" the market in the long run (hint: 90% of them won't). I say this as a full-time daytrader.
â misantroop
1 hour ago
@Bridgeburners arguably, it's a mix of greed and overconfidence... for some people, it's a hobby.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
53 mins ago
@misantroop I'm not sure you fit in with the "casual investors"
â 0xFEE1DEAD
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Thanks. So why do casual investors, who don't spent a ton of time doing financial research, trade in individual stocks? Are they misguided? Do they know that it's worse on average, but still enjoy the higher volatility (like casino players who know the expected value is against them but still enjoy the thrill of gambling)? Do many of them have friends who do have above-average insights in the market? Or is there some incentive to doing this that I have overlooked?
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Because it's exciting and gives them a sense of control over their financial destiny. They will also learn whether they are able to "beat" the market in the long run (hint: 90% of them won't). I say this as a full-time daytrader.
â misantroop
1 hour ago
@Bridgeburners arguably, it's a mix of greed and overconfidence... for some people, it's a hobby.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
53 mins ago
@misantroop I'm not sure you fit in with the "casual investors"
â 0xFEE1DEAD
46 mins ago
Thanks. So why do casual investors, who don't spent a ton of time doing financial research, trade in individual stocks? Are they misguided? Do they know that it's worse on average, but still enjoy the higher volatility (like casino players who know the expected value is against them but still enjoy the thrill of gambling)? Do many of them have friends who do have above-average insights in the market? Or is there some incentive to doing this that I have overlooked?
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Thanks. So why do casual investors, who don't spent a ton of time doing financial research, trade in individual stocks? Are they misguided? Do they know that it's worse on average, but still enjoy the higher volatility (like casino players who know the expected value is against them but still enjoy the thrill of gambling)? Do many of them have friends who do have above-average insights in the market? Or is there some incentive to doing this that I have overlooked?
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Because it's exciting and gives them a sense of control over their financial destiny. They will also learn whether they are able to "beat" the market in the long run (hint: 90% of them won't). I say this as a full-time daytrader.
â misantroop
1 hour ago
Because it's exciting and gives them a sense of control over their financial destiny. They will also learn whether they are able to "beat" the market in the long run (hint: 90% of them won't). I say this as a full-time daytrader.
â misantroop
1 hour ago
@Bridgeburners arguably, it's a mix of greed and overconfidence... for some people, it's a hobby.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
53 mins ago
@Bridgeburners arguably, it's a mix of greed and overconfidence... for some people, it's a hobby.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
53 mins ago
@misantroop I'm not sure you fit in with the "casual investors"
â 0xFEE1DEAD
46 mins ago
@misantroop I'm not sure you fit in with the "casual investors"
â 0xFEE1DEAD
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Usually the prices from stocks reflect the knowledge about the market, mostly value of the company and hopes about the future process of this economy.
Even professionell traders fail in average, to beat index funds who ain't really trading.
There are trading bots, who try to buy/sell before the knowledge reach the market in scanning new portals all the time - and you need to act like that to get an advantage over the market knowledge ... Even when you fail for tesla april jokes like that.
Personally i think patience and diversification, is more important while investing in stock market if you keep this in mind and invest money you don't need now you normally beat loans from papers and your bank. The big indexes, always had very good process over a 7 year rhythm even with big crisises.
Normal people investing, often make the mistake that they invest when the market is running well for a while and sell during the crisis instead of waiting for better times. Sometimes it is good, to invest those money and forget about it. Or they invest in a sector they believe in, if this sectors runs well you gain lot of money but like the dotcom crisis there is a high risk to fail if this sector gets big problems.
Edit: I forget the "risk" as a major factor for the price. Simply said, if you buy blue ship (very big companies) you gain a steady income with low risk, but usually you ain't make quick money. The higher the risk, the higher should be the income oppurtunitys and the more important gets diservication.
New contributor
+1 for "patience and diversification". Also, good point on risk vs reward.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
49 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Usually the prices from stocks reflect the knowledge about the market, mostly value of the company and hopes about the future process of this economy.
Even professionell traders fail in average, to beat index funds who ain't really trading.
There are trading bots, who try to buy/sell before the knowledge reach the market in scanning new portals all the time - and you need to act like that to get an advantage over the market knowledge ... Even when you fail for tesla april jokes like that.
Personally i think patience and diversification, is more important while investing in stock market if you keep this in mind and invest money you don't need now you normally beat loans from papers and your bank. The big indexes, always had very good process over a 7 year rhythm even with big crisises.
Normal people investing, often make the mistake that they invest when the market is running well for a while and sell during the crisis instead of waiting for better times. Sometimes it is good, to invest those money and forget about it. Or they invest in a sector they believe in, if this sectors runs well you gain lot of money but like the dotcom crisis there is a high risk to fail if this sector gets big problems.
Edit: I forget the "risk" as a major factor for the price. Simply said, if you buy blue ship (very big companies) you gain a steady income with low risk, but usually you ain't make quick money. The higher the risk, the higher should be the income oppurtunitys and the more important gets diservication.
New contributor
+1 for "patience and diversification". Also, good point on risk vs reward.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
49 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Usually the prices from stocks reflect the knowledge about the market, mostly value of the company and hopes about the future process of this economy.
Even professionell traders fail in average, to beat index funds who ain't really trading.
There are trading bots, who try to buy/sell before the knowledge reach the market in scanning new portals all the time - and you need to act like that to get an advantage over the market knowledge ... Even when you fail for tesla april jokes like that.
Personally i think patience and diversification, is more important while investing in stock market if you keep this in mind and invest money you don't need now you normally beat loans from papers and your bank. The big indexes, always had very good process over a 7 year rhythm even with big crisises.
Normal people investing, often make the mistake that they invest when the market is running well for a while and sell during the crisis instead of waiting for better times. Sometimes it is good, to invest those money and forget about it. Or they invest in a sector they believe in, if this sectors runs well you gain lot of money but like the dotcom crisis there is a high risk to fail if this sector gets big problems.
Edit: I forget the "risk" as a major factor for the price. Simply said, if you buy blue ship (very big companies) you gain a steady income with low risk, but usually you ain't make quick money. The higher the risk, the higher should be the income oppurtunitys and the more important gets diservication.
New contributor
Usually the prices from stocks reflect the knowledge about the market, mostly value of the company and hopes about the future process of this economy.
Even professionell traders fail in average, to beat index funds who ain't really trading.
There are trading bots, who try to buy/sell before the knowledge reach the market in scanning new portals all the time - and you need to act like that to get an advantage over the market knowledge ... Even when you fail for tesla april jokes like that.
Personally i think patience and diversification, is more important while investing in stock market if you keep this in mind and invest money you don't need now you normally beat loans from papers and your bank. The big indexes, always had very good process over a 7 year rhythm even with big crisises.
Normal people investing, often make the mistake that they invest when the market is running well for a while and sell during the crisis instead of waiting for better times. Sometimes it is good, to invest those money and forget about it. Or they invest in a sector they believe in, if this sectors runs well you gain lot of money but like the dotcom crisis there is a high risk to fail if this sector gets big problems.
Edit: I forget the "risk" as a major factor for the price. Simply said, if you buy blue ship (very big companies) you gain a steady income with low risk, but usually you ain't make quick money. The higher the risk, the higher should be the income oppurtunitys and the more important gets diservication.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 hours ago
chris
113
113
New contributor
New contributor
+1 for "patience and diversification". Also, good point on risk vs reward.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
49 mins ago
add a comment |Â
+1 for "patience and diversification". Also, good point on risk vs reward.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
49 mins ago
+1 for "patience and diversification". Also, good point on risk vs reward.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
49 mins ago
+1 for "patience and diversification". Also, good point on risk vs reward.
â 0xFEE1DEAD
49 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Bridgeburners is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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@Grade'Eh'Bacon Thanks, that seems like good advice. I'm not sure, yet, what I should cut. I want to know, specifically, the extent of the validity of Yudkowsky's argument, since that is what spurred me to ask this in the first place. It's possible, for example, that his claim is correct but his arguments are flawed. If so, I still want to know that. Given that, it's not clear to me right now what I should cut. But I will definitely try and make it much shorter. Also, did you mean my second-to-last paragraph? That's where the bolded question is.
â Bridgeburners
4 hours ago
@Grade'Eh'Bacon Okay, your point is well taken. Thanks.
â Bridgeburners
1 hour ago
Can an average person become the poker champion of the world? An Olympic gold medalist?
â misantroop
1 hour ago