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What really happened to the USS Voyager in “Living Witness�
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In Star Trek: Voyager, episode 23 of season 4 (remember), the episode begins with a civilization unknown until now. They claim to hold the ruins of the USS Voyager, which has otherwise contributed to the history of this civilization in a negative way, whereby Captain Janeway formed an alliance with the enemies of the people in question.
In the historical reconstructions of this event, we see many parts belonging to the ship, such as the Doctor.
This one -- having been deactivated during all these years -- still seems to be several centuries ago. The Doctor is therefore considered as the last "living" witnesses of this war.
The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew. The Doctor has done everything to set the truth about that time, and finally, all ends well, history is approved.
However, what is really going on? In the other episodes, the Doctor is always present, as well as the crew members, and the USS Voyager. At the end of the series, they all return to Earth.
What about this episode that seems to be out of the scope of the story?
I couldn't find any explanation about this episode, except that we could consider it as a separate story, but it doesn't really make sense to put an episode that has nothing to do with it in the middle of the series (even if it's very good and fits in pretty well).
I don't think this question is a duplication of this post, because this one is about the whole episode, as well as what really happened to the crew.
star-trek star-trek-voyager
edited Sep 5 at 11:26
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 5 at 11:22
Foxy
499137
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
23
down vote
favorite
In Star Trek: Voyager, episode 23 of season 4 (remember), the episode begins with a civilization unknown until now. They claim to hold the ruins of the USS Voyager, which has otherwise contributed to the history of this civilization in a negative way, whereby Captain Janeway formed an alliance with the enemies of the people in question.
In the historical reconstructions of this event, we see many parts belonging to the ship, such as the Doctor.
This one -- having been deactivated during all these years -- still seems to be several centuries ago. The Doctor is therefore considered as the last "living" witnesses of this war.
The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew. The Doctor has done everything to set the truth about that time, and finally, all ends well, history is approved.
However, what is really going on? In the other episodes, the Doctor is always present, as well as the crew members, and the USS Voyager. At the end of the series, they all return to Earth.
What about this episode that seems to be out of the scope of the story?
I couldn't find any explanation about this episode, except that we could consider it as a separate story, but it doesn't really make sense to put an episode that has nothing to do with it in the middle of the series (even if it's very good and fits in pretty well).
I don't think this question is a duplication of this post, because this one is about the whole episode, as well as what really happened to the crew.
star-trek star-trek-voyager
edited Sep 5 at 11:26
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 5 at 11:22
Foxy
499137
memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck†here.
– Paul D. Waite
Sep 5 at 12:14
6
"The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:09
1
@OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 14:13
1
It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:23
7
@Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
– Eric Towers
Sep 5 at 15:53
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
23
down vote
favorite
up vote
23
down vote
favorite
In Star Trek: Voyager, episode 23 of season 4 (remember), the episode begins with a civilization unknown until now. They claim to hold the ruins of the USS Voyager, which has otherwise contributed to the history of this civilization in a negative way, whereby Captain Janeway formed an alliance with the enemies of the people in question.
In the historical reconstructions of this event, we see many parts belonging to the ship, such as the Doctor.
This one -- having been deactivated during all these years -- still seems to be several centuries ago. The Doctor is therefore considered as the last "living" witnesses of this war.
The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew. The Doctor has done everything to set the truth about that time, and finally, all ends well, history is approved.
However, what is really going on? In the other episodes, the Doctor is always present, as well as the crew members, and the USS Voyager. At the end of the series, they all return to Earth.
What about this episode that seems to be out of the scope of the story?
I couldn't find any explanation about this episode, except that we could consider it as a separate story, but it doesn't really make sense to put an episode that has nothing to do with it in the middle of the series (even if it's very good and fits in pretty well).
I don't think this question is a duplication of this post, because this one is about the whole episode, as well as what really happened to the crew.
star-trek star-trek-voyager
edited Sep 5 at 11:26
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 5 at 11:22
Foxy
499137
In Star Trek: Voyager, episode 23 of season 4 (remember), the episode begins with a civilization unknown until now. They claim to hold the ruins of the USS Voyager, which has otherwise contributed to the history of this civilization in a negative way, whereby Captain Janeway formed an alliance with the enemies of the people in question.
In the historical reconstructions of this event, we see many parts belonging to the ship, such as the Doctor.
This one -- having been deactivated during all these years -- still seems to be several centuries ago. The Doctor is therefore considered as the last "living" witnesses of this war.
The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew. The Doctor has done everything to set the truth about that time, and finally, all ends well, history is approved.
However, what is really going on? In the other episodes, the Doctor is always present, as well as the crew members, and the USS Voyager. At the end of the series, they all return to Earth.
What about this episode that seems to be out of the scope of the story?
I couldn't find any explanation about this episode, except that we could consider it as a separate story, but it doesn't really make sense to put an episode that has nothing to do with it in the middle of the series (even if it's very good and fits in pretty well).
I don't think this question is a duplication of this post, because this one is about the whole episode, as well as what really happened to the crew.
star-trek star-trek-voyager
edited Sep 5 at 11:26
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 5 at 11:22
Foxy
499137
edited Sep 5 at 11:26
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
edited Sep 5 at 11:26
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
edited Sep 5 at 11:26
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
31.6k13178219
asked Sep 5 at 11:22
Foxy
499137
asked Sep 5 at 11:22
Foxy
499137
asked Sep 5 at 11:22
Foxy
499137
499137
memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck†here.
– Paul D. Waite
Sep 5 at 12:14
6
"The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:09
1
@OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 14:13
1
It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:23
7
@Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
– Eric Towers
Sep 5 at 15:53
 |Â
show 1 more comment
memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck†here.
– Paul D. Waite
Sep 5 at 12:14
6
"The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:09
1
@OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 14:13
1
It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:23
7
@Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
– Eric Towers
Sep 5 at 15:53
memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck†here.
– Paul D. Waite
Sep 5 at 12:14
memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck†here.
– Paul D. Waite
Sep 5 at 12:14
6
6
"The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:09
"The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:09
1
1
@OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 14:13
@OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 14:13
1
1
It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:23
It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:23
7
7
@Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
– Eric Towers
Sep 5 at 15:53
@Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
– Eric Towers
Sep 5 at 15:53
 |Â
show 1 more comment
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
37
down vote
accepted
Lets look at the transcript.
The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:
EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.
In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:
QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.
Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:
QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.
Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.
We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:
EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.
Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.
In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.
answered Sep 5 at 12:13
Polygnome
1,041610
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up vote
15
down vote
I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.
Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.
Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?
edited Sep 5 at 11:52
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
answered Sep 5 at 11:31
Sharku
2596
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1
I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 11:34
5
@Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
– Mike Scott
Sep 5 at 11:46
3
Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 5 at 11:53
1
@Sharku It's possible!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
1
"L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
5
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We will never know.
That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.
Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.
(One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)
What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.
answered Sep 5 at 12:27
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,38733363
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1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.
2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).
answered 22 hours ago
davidLeak
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Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
– RDFozz
21 hours ago
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
37
down vote
accepted
Lets look at the transcript.
The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:
EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.
In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:
QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.
Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:
QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.
Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.
We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:
EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.
Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.
In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.
answered Sep 5 at 12:13
Polygnome
1,041610
add a comment |Â
up vote
37
down vote
accepted
Lets look at the transcript.
The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:
EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.
In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:
QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.
Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:
QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.
Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.
We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:
EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.
Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.
In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.
answered Sep 5 at 12:13
Polygnome
1,041610
add a comment |Â
up vote
37
down vote
accepted
up vote
37
down vote
accepted
Lets look at the transcript.
The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:
EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.
In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:
QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.
Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:
QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.
Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.
We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:
EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.
Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.
In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.
answered Sep 5 at 12:13
Polygnome
1,041610
Lets look at the transcript.
The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:
EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.
In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:
QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.
Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:
QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.
Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.
We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:
EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.
Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.
In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.
answered Sep 5 at 12:13
Polygnome
1,041610
edited Sep 6 at 10:37
answered Sep 5 at 12:13
Polygnome
1,041610
answered Sep 5 at 12:13
Polygnome
1,041610
answered Sep 5 at 12:13
Polygnome
1,041610
1,041610
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.
Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.
Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?
edited Sep 5 at 11:52
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
answered Sep 5 at 11:31
Sharku
2596
New contributor
Sharku is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 11:34
5
@Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
– Mike Scott
Sep 5 at 11:46
3
Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 5 at 11:53
1
@Sharku It's possible!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
1
"L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
15
down vote
I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.
Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.
Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?
edited Sep 5 at 11:52
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
answered Sep 5 at 11:31
Sharku
2596
New contributor
Sharku is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 11:34
5
@Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
– Mike Scott
Sep 5 at 11:46
3
Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 5 at 11:53
1
@Sharku It's possible!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
1
"L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
15
down vote
up vote
15
down vote
I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.
Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.
Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?
edited Sep 5 at 11:52
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
answered Sep 5 at 11:31
Sharku
2596
New contributor
Sharku is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.
Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.
Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?
edited Sep 5 at 11:52
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
answered Sep 5 at 11:31
Sharku
2596
New contributor
Sharku is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Sep 5 at 11:52
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
edited Sep 5 at 11:52
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
edited Sep 5 at 11:52
TheLethalCarrot
31.6k13178219
31.6k13178219
answered Sep 5 at 11:31
Sharku
2596
New contributor
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answered Sep 5 at 11:31
Sharku
2596
answered Sep 5 at 11:31
Sharku
2596
2596
New contributor
Sharku is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor
Sharku is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Sharku is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 11:34
5
@Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
– Mike Scott
Sep 5 at 11:46
3
Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 5 at 11:53
1
@Sharku It's possible!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
1
"L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
 |Â
show 7 more comments
1
I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 11:34
5
@Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
– Mike Scott
Sep 5 at 11:46
3
Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 5 at 11:53
1
@Sharku It's possible!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
1
"L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
1
1
I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 11:34
I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 11:34
5
5
@Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
– Mike Scott
Sep 5 at 11:46
@Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
– Mike Scott
Sep 5 at 11:46
3
3
Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 5 at 11:53
Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
– TheLethalCarrot
Sep 5 at 11:53
1
1
@Sharku It's possible!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
@Sharku It's possible!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
1
1
"L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
"L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Sep 6 at 11:47
 |Â
show 7 more comments
up vote
5
down vote
We will never know.
That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.
Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.
(One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)
What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.
answered Sep 5 at 12:27
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,38733363
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
We will never know.
That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.
Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.
(One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)
What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.
answered Sep 5 at 12:27
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,38733363
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
We will never know.
That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.
Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.
(One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)
What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.
answered Sep 5 at 12:27
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,38733363
We will never know.
That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.
Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.
(One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)
What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.
answered Sep 5 at 12:27
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,38733363
answered Sep 5 at 12:27
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,38733363
answered Sep 5 at 12:27
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,38733363
answered Sep 5 at 12:27
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,38733363
9,38733363
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.
2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).
answered 22 hours ago
davidLeak
113
New contributor
davidLeak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
– RDFozz
21 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.
2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).
answered 22 hours ago
davidLeak
113
New contributor
davidLeak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
– RDFozz
21 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.
2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).
answered 22 hours ago
davidLeak
113
New contributor
davidLeak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.
2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).
answered 22 hours ago
davidLeak
113
New contributor
davidLeak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 22 hours ago
davidLeak
113
New contributor
davidLeak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 22 hours ago
davidLeak
113
answered 22 hours ago
davidLeak
113
113
New contributor
davidLeak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
davidLeak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
davidLeak is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
– RDFozz
21 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
– RDFozz
21 hours ago
Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
– RDFozz
21 hours ago
Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
– RDFozz
21 hours ago
add a comment |Â
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memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck†here.
– Paul D. Waite
Sep 5 at 12:14
6
"The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:09
1
@OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 14:13
1
It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:23
7
@Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
– Eric Towers
Sep 5 at 15:53