Universal translation and nonsense lyrics

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I've been drafting a science fiction story that places a lot of emphases on the vastness of culture. One way technique I've been using is language and the hassle of translation. Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly, and that's not including slang and accents (some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television, I am told). In this particular setting, that number is multiplied by the number of species and increased further by the vast distances between settlements and colonies.

For face-to-face communication to work between radically different species, electronic translators have become extremely common. The most common type is an AI equipped with directional microphones, a vast compendium of languages, and an equivalent of an earpiece. This AI focuses on a speaker, translates in near-real time, then feeds the translation into the earpiece (or projects subtitles onto a visor, case depending). Its not a perfect system, but its well-programmed enough to handle groups of people speaking simultaneously, provident that it what its translating to what.

Example from the text:
It took one of its hands off the gun to pull a electronic slate out of its belt holster. It fiddled with it a bit, pausing every few seconds to speak a few words of various Carapaced languages. Quotze thought about trying to pantomime “Artech-Westle Reformed”, but decided he would much rather not talk to this heavily armed alien.

Anyhow, I got to thinking about the limitations of this system and how that would effect both culture and the story. Body language can't be translated, that's for sure, but what really interested me was music. Because the AI translates for maximum accuracy, rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier.

"You ain't nothing but a hound dog, crying all the time. You ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine."

=

"You are like a beast for hunting that despairs constantly. You have never caught prey and are not my friend."

Am I right my assessment of this flaw? Even assuming that the translator AI is packed with common idioms and sayings, wouldn't songs and poetry suffer with this kind of system? I'm especially curious how someone singing by themselves would sound, as well as how interplanetary "pop"-music could work.

aliens language music augmented-reality

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asked 21 hours ago

Pinion Minion

3,6361135

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  you might be interested in Google Translate Sings
  – Mr.Mindor
  17 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There is a set of novels by Stanislaw Lem "Inwazja z Aldebarana" (The Invasion from the Aldebaran, I'm afraid it hasn't been translated to English, I found references to Polish, Czech and Russian versions only) with one novel following the very same title. In this novel the said invasion is repelled (among others) because the translation is done in a manner you suggest ;-)
  – Ister
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  A bit more research let me find the Invasion from Aldebaran in English on Google Books, just search for it there. The translation is pretty decent with just one flaw, unfortunately in the Telepatic translation.
  – Ister
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This also reminds me of a song by Adriano Celentano called Prisencolinensinainciusol which was "written to mimic the way English sounds to non-English speakers." It's a very interesting listen and hit No. 1 in Italy for a while. It also reminds me of an episode of Star Trek TNG "Darmok". The crew find a species of aliens which they can understand the individual words, because of the translator, but which remains meaningless because they don't understand the culture. It is one of the best episodes and is a good watch.
  – Nikolay Arabadzhi
  15 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This is pretty much exactly the problem that human translators run into, and the reason why it’s much, much harder to translate comedies than dramas. How do you translate a play on words or a joke relying on a double entendre (and so on) or a funny cultural misunderstanding when your target language or culture doesn’t have those things? There’s really no good solution. If you’re going for realism, your best approach might be to simply acknowledge the inherent limits of translation.
  – HopelessN00b
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

up vote
8
down vote

favorite

1

I've been drafting a science fiction story that places a lot of emphases on the vastness of culture. One way technique I've been using is language and the hassle of translation. Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly, and that's not including slang and accents (some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television, I am told). In this particular setting, that number is multiplied by the number of species and increased further by the vast distances between settlements and colonies.

For face-to-face communication to work between radically different species, electronic translators have become extremely common. The most common type is an AI equipped with directional microphones, a vast compendium of languages, and an equivalent of an earpiece. This AI focuses on a speaker, translates in near-real time, then feeds the translation into the earpiece (or projects subtitles onto a visor, case depending). Its not a perfect system, but its well-programmed enough to handle groups of people speaking simultaneously, provident that it what its translating to what.

Example from the text:
It took one of its hands off the gun to pull a electronic slate out of its belt holster. It fiddled with it a bit, pausing every few seconds to speak a few words of various Carapaced languages. Quotze thought about trying to pantomime “Artech-Westle Reformed”, but decided he would much rather not talk to this heavily armed alien.

Anyhow, I got to thinking about the limitations of this system and how that would effect both culture and the story. Body language can't be translated, that's for sure, but what really interested me was music. Because the AI translates for maximum accuracy, rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier.

"You ain't nothing but a hound dog, crying all the time. You ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine."

=

"You are like a beast for hunting that despairs constantly. You have never caught prey and are not my friend."

Am I right my assessment of this flaw? Even assuming that the translator AI is packed with common idioms and sayings, wouldn't songs and poetry suffer with this kind of system? I'm especially curious how someone singing by themselves would sound, as well as how interplanetary "pop"-music could work.

aliens language music augmented-reality

share|improve this question

asked 21 hours ago

Pinion Minion

3,6361135

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  you might be interested in Google Translate Sings
  – Mr.Mindor
  17 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There is a set of novels by Stanislaw Lem "Inwazja z Aldebarana" (The Invasion from the Aldebaran, I'm afraid it hasn't been translated to English, I found references to Polish, Czech and Russian versions only) with one novel following the very same title. In this novel the said invasion is repelled (among others) because the translation is done in a manner you suggest ;-)
  – Ister
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  A bit more research let me find the Invasion from Aldebaran in English on Google Books, just search for it there. The translation is pretty decent with just one flaw, unfortunately in the Telepatic translation.
  – Ister
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This also reminds me of a song by Adriano Celentano called Prisencolinensinainciusol which was "written to mimic the way English sounds to non-English speakers." It's a very interesting listen and hit No. 1 in Italy for a while. It also reminds me of an episode of Star Trek TNG "Darmok". The crew find a species of aliens which they can understand the individual words, because of the translator, but which remains meaningless because they don't understand the culture. It is one of the best episodes and is a good watch.
  – Nikolay Arabadzhi
  15 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This is pretty much exactly the problem that human translators run into, and the reason why it’s much, much harder to translate comedies than dramas. How do you translate a play on words or a joke relying on a double entendre (and so on) or a funny cultural misunderstanding when your target language or culture doesn’t have those things? There’s really no good solution. If you’re going for realism, your best approach might be to simply acknowledge the inherent limits of translation.
  – HopelessN00b
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

up vote
8
down vote

favorite

1

up vote
8
down vote

favorite

1

1

I've been drafting a science fiction story that places a lot of emphases on the vastness of culture. One way technique I've been using is language and the hassle of translation. Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly, and that's not including slang and accents (some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television, I am told). In this particular setting, that number is multiplied by the number of species and increased further by the vast distances between settlements and colonies.

For face-to-face communication to work between radically different species, electronic translators have become extremely common. The most common type is an AI equipped with directional microphones, a vast compendium of languages, and an equivalent of an earpiece. This AI focuses on a speaker, translates in near-real time, then feeds the translation into the earpiece (or projects subtitles onto a visor, case depending). Its not a perfect system, but its well-programmed enough to handle groups of people speaking simultaneously, provident that it what its translating to what.

Example from the text:
It took one of its hands off the gun to pull a electronic slate out of its belt holster. It fiddled with it a bit, pausing every few seconds to speak a few words of various Carapaced languages. Quotze thought about trying to pantomime “Artech-Westle Reformed”, but decided he would much rather not talk to this heavily armed alien.

Anyhow, I got to thinking about the limitations of this system and how that would effect both culture and the story. Body language can't be translated, that's for sure, but what really interested me was music. Because the AI translates for maximum accuracy, rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier.

"You ain't nothing but a hound dog, crying all the time. You ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine."

=

"You are like a beast for hunting that despairs constantly. You have never caught prey and are not my friend."

Am I right my assessment of this flaw? Even assuming that the translator AI is packed with common idioms and sayings, wouldn't songs and poetry suffer with this kind of system? I'm especially curious how someone singing by themselves would sound, as well as how interplanetary "pop"-music could work.

aliens language music augmented-reality

share|improve this question

asked 21 hours ago

Pinion Minion

3,6361135

I've been drafting a science fiction story that places a lot of emphases on the vastness of culture. One way technique I've been using is language and the hassle of translation. Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly, and that's not including slang and accents (some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television, I am told). In this particular setting, that number is multiplied by the number of species and increased further by the vast distances between settlements and colonies.

For face-to-face communication to work between radically different species, electronic translators have become extremely common. The most common type is an AI equipped with directional microphones, a vast compendium of languages, and an equivalent of an earpiece. This AI focuses on a speaker, translates in near-real time, then feeds the translation into the earpiece (or projects subtitles onto a visor, case depending). Its not a perfect system, but its well-programmed enough to handle groups of people speaking simultaneously, provident that it what its translating to what.

Example from the text:
It took one of its hands off the gun to pull a electronic slate out of its belt holster. It fiddled with it a bit, pausing every few seconds to speak a few words of various Carapaced languages. Quotze thought about trying to pantomime “Artech-Westle Reformed”, but decided he would much rather not talk to this heavily armed alien.

Anyhow, I got to thinking about the limitations of this system and how that would effect both culture and the story. Body language can't be translated, that's for sure, but what really interested me was music. Because the AI translates for maximum accuracy, rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier.

"You ain't nothing but a hound dog, crying all the time. You ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine."

=

"You are like a beast for hunting that despairs constantly. You have never caught prey and are not my friend."

Am I right my assessment of this flaw? Even assuming that the translator AI is packed with common idioms and sayings, wouldn't songs and poetry suffer with this kind of system? I'm especially curious how someone singing by themselves would sound, as well as how interplanetary "pop"-music could work.

aliens language music augmented-reality

aliens language music augmented-reality

share|improve this question

asked 21 hours ago

Pinion Minion

3,6361135

share|improve this question

asked 21 hours ago

Pinion Minion

3,6361135

share|improve this question

share|improve this question

asked 21 hours ago

Pinion Minion

3,6361135

asked 21 hours ago

Pinion Minion

3,6361135

asked 21 hours ago

Pinion Minion

3,6361135

3,6361135

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  you might be interested in Google Translate Sings
  – Mr.Mindor
  17 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There is a set of novels by Stanislaw Lem "Inwazja z Aldebarana" (The Invasion from the Aldebaran, I'm afraid it hasn't been translated to English, I found references to Polish, Czech and Russian versions only) with one novel following the very same title. In this novel the said invasion is repelled (among others) because the translation is done in a manner you suggest ;-)
  – Ister
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  A bit more research let me find the Invasion from Aldebaran in English on Google Books, just search for it there. The translation is pretty decent with just one flaw, unfortunately in the Telepatic translation.
  – Ister
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This also reminds me of a song by Adriano Celentano called Prisencolinensinainciusol which was "written to mimic the way English sounds to non-English speakers." It's a very interesting listen and hit No. 1 in Italy for a while. It also reminds me of an episode of Star Trek TNG "Darmok". The crew find a species of aliens which they can understand the individual words, because of the translator, but which remains meaningless because they don't understand the culture. It is one of the best episodes and is a good watch.
  – Nikolay Arabadzhi
  15 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This is pretty much exactly the problem that human translators run into, and the reason why it’s much, much harder to translate comedies than dramas. How do you translate a play on words or a joke relying on a double entendre (and so on) or a funny cultural misunderstanding when your target language or culture doesn’t have those things? There’s really no good solution. If you’re going for realism, your best approach might be to simply acknowledge the inherent limits of translation.
  – HopelessN00b
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  you might be interested in Google Translate Sings
  – Mr.Mindor
  17 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There is a set of novels by Stanislaw Lem "Inwazja z Aldebarana" (The Invasion from the Aldebaran, I'm afraid it hasn't been translated to English, I found references to Polish, Czech and Russian versions only) with one novel following the very same title. In this novel the said invasion is repelled (among others) because the translation is done in a manner you suggest ;-)
  – Ister
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  A bit more research let me find the Invasion from Aldebaran in English on Google Books, just search for it there. The translation is pretty decent with just one flaw, unfortunately in the Telepatic translation.
  – Ister
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This also reminds me of a song by Adriano Celentano called Prisencolinensinainciusol which was "written to mimic the way English sounds to non-English speakers." It's a very interesting listen and hit No. 1 in Italy for a while. It also reminds me of an episode of Star Trek TNG "Darmok". The crew find a species of aliens which they can understand the individual words, because of the translator, but which remains meaningless because they don't understand the culture. It is one of the best episodes and is a good watch.
  – Nikolay Arabadzhi
  15 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  This is pretty much exactly the problem that human translators run into, and the reason why it’s much, much harder to translate comedies than dramas. How do you translate a play on words or a joke relying on a double entendre (and so on) or a funny cultural misunderstanding when your target language or culture doesn’t have those things? There’s really no good solution. If you’re going for realism, your best approach might be to simply acknowledge the inherent limits of translation.
  – HopelessN00b
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

3

3

you might be interested in Google Translate Sings
– Mr.Mindor
17 hours ago

you might be interested in Google Translate Sings
– Mr.Mindor
17 hours ago

1

1

There is a set of novels by Stanislaw Lem "Inwazja z Aldebarana" (The Invasion from the Aldebaran, I'm afraid it hasn't been translated to English, I found references to Polish, Czech and Russian versions only) with one novel following the very same title. In this novel the said invasion is repelled (among others) because the translation is done in a manner you suggest ;-)
– Ister
16 hours ago

There is a set of novels by Stanislaw Lem "Inwazja z Aldebarana" (The Invasion from the Aldebaran, I'm afraid it hasn't been translated to English, I found references to Polish, Czech and Russian versions only) with one novel following the very same title. In this novel the said invasion is repelled (among others) because the translation is done in a manner you suggest ;-)
– Ister
16 hours ago

1

1

A bit more research let me find the Invasion from Aldebaran in English on Google Books, just search for it there. The translation is pretty decent with just one flaw, unfortunately in the Telepatic translation.
– Ister
16 hours ago

A bit more research let me find the Invasion from Aldebaran in English on Google Books, just search for it there. The translation is pretty decent with just one flaw, unfortunately in the Telepatic translation.
– Ister
16 hours ago

1

1

This also reminds me of a song by Adriano Celentano called Prisencolinensinainciusol which was "written to mimic the way English sounds to non-English speakers." It's a very interesting listen and hit No. 1 in Italy for a while. It also reminds me of an episode of Star Trek TNG "Darmok". The crew find a species of aliens which they can understand the individual words, because of the translator, but which remains meaningless because they don't understand the culture. It is one of the best episodes and is a good watch.
– Nikolay Arabadzhi
15 hours ago

This also reminds me of a song by Adriano Celentano called Prisencolinensinainciusol which was "written to mimic the way English sounds to non-English speakers." It's a very interesting listen and hit No. 1 in Italy for a while. It also reminds me of an episode of Star Trek TNG "Darmok". The crew find a species of aliens which they can understand the individual words, because of the translator, but which remains meaningless because they don't understand the culture. It is one of the best episodes and is a good watch.
– Nikolay Arabadzhi
15 hours ago

2

2

This is pretty much exactly the problem that human translators run into, and the reason why it’s much, much harder to translate comedies than dramas. How do you translate a play on words or a joke relying on a double entendre (and so on) or a funny cultural misunderstanding when your target language or culture doesn’t have those things? There’s really no good solution. If you’re going for realism, your best approach might be to simply acknowledge the inherent limits of translation.
– HopelessN00b
14 hours ago

This is pretty much exactly the problem that human translators run into, and the reason why it’s much, much harder to translate comedies than dramas. How do you translate a play on words or a joke relying on a double entendre (and so on) or a funny cultural misunderstanding when your target language or culture doesn’t have those things? There’s really no good solution. If you’re going for realism, your best approach might be to simply acknowledge the inherent limits of translation.
– HopelessN00b
14 hours ago

 | 
show 3 more comments

7 Answers
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up vote
19
down vote

You don't need to understand music to appreciate it.

I listen to japanese music without translation because I hear it from the openings on shows. I listen to vocaloid styled music without knowing the base language. The pacing of lyrics and the instrumentals mean more to me than the actual words.

Technically, Pop music already works this way. I can't have fun singing those repetitive lyrics but from a distance its not unpleasing to my ears.

share|improve this answer

answered 21 hours ago

IT Alex

4013

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  I have to admit, telling someone to "just turn off the translator and listen" does seem like a good moment for a story.
  – Pinion Minion
  20 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  Since modern Japanese is about 30% borrow words from English, I find i can understand about 50% or the music you reference - enough that I can tell when the translators try to gloss over a cultural difference.
  – pojo-guy
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  Same here (with the addition of Korean, Spanish, German, and Swedish as well), though I quite often know the English translations of the lyrics too, but even then I generally avoid focusing on the meaning because it distracts me from enjoying the music.
  – Austin Hemmelgarn
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  My absolute favorite: Russian trap / rap, even though I don't speak a word of any slavic language
  – Hobbamok
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  I just want to point out that a lot of vocaloid music has lyrics going in a completely different direction from the general feeling, and that is a deliberate choice. So, while you can "just listen", you will be appreciating a completely different thing compared to the original song. E.g., all the cheery-peppy songs about depression, abuse and suicide.
  – Alice
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
16
down vote

• 
  

  "Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly":

  
  
  

  Actually there are only about 100 languages spoken natively by more than 0.1% of the population of Earth. Out of those 4500 languages, 4000 have minuscule numbers of speakers.

  
  


• 
  

  "Some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television" . . .

  
  
  

  . . . which is hardly unexpected given than (a) Scots and English are closely related yet different languages, and (b) there are many many local variants of English spoken in the British Isles. (Hint: very few people on the British Isles speak RP natively.)

  
  


• 
  

  "The AI translates for maximum accuracy":

  
  
  

  What does this even mean?

  
  
  

  Let's take a very simple example. Let's suppose that the AI is translating from French into English, and it hears the sentence "ils se tutoyaient". How will the AI translate this simple and ordinary French sentence into English?

  
  
  

  • The literal translation would be "they were speaking to each other using the second person singular". (And even this dreadful translation is not completely accurate, because it could equally translate "elles se tutoyaient" -- English simply does not have the possibility to express gender in the 3rd person plural personal pronouns. Not to mention that blindly rendering the French imperfect with the English past continuous is problematic.) I hope we can agree that such a stilted translation would not be acceptable.

  
  

  • A better translation would be "there was no formality between them", or maybe "they chatted informally".

  
  

  The point is that what is the "maximally accurate" translation depends very much on the purpose of the translation. That's why in a book or article on linguistics the phrase might be rendered "they^masc. [reflexive] use-second-person-singular^{imperf. pl.}", whereas in a story it might be rendered "they were quite close": because there is never such a thing as the most accurate translation, only the best translation for the specific purpose.

  
  
  

  Which brings us to the problem of poetry . . .

  
  


• 
  

  "Rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier":

  
  
  

  First of all, rhyme and meter are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of poetry.

  
  
  

  But anyway we know that great poets can actually translate poetry. You see, in the case of poetry the maximally accurate translation is not the plodding literal translation, but the translation which best carries the beauty and mystery of the poem; literal accuracy is of secondary importance.

  
  
  

  Sometimes, a translation is so successful that it becomes the standard rendition in the target language. For example, it doesn't matter one iota what is the literal meaning of Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat #51: in the English language, the standard, fixed, and unquestionable form is that given by Edward FitzGerald: "the moving finger writes: and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it".

  
  
  

  This is why, when poetry is quoted in a book, a human translator won't even attempt to translate it if there already is a good translation; the poetry will be quoted in the already established form, which a footnote indicating the source.

  
  
  

  As for the meter, it is sometimes preserved, sometimes adapted; for example, the famous English translation of the Iliad by George Chapman is written in iambic heptameter ("Achilles’ bane full wrath resound, O Goddesse, that imposd
  infinite sorrowes on the Greekes, and many brave soules losd"...) whereas the original is, of course, in dactylic hexameter.

  
  


• 
  

  "What really interested me was music":

  
  
  

  Music does not need to be translated. What could possibly mean to translate Bach's Brandenburg Concertos? Translate from what into what?

  
  
  

  Maybe you mean "translate the lyrics"; this is simply a subcase of translating poetry, with the difference that in the case of song lyrics rhyme and meter are much more important than meaning.

  
  
  

  Given that in the overwhelming majority of cases the lyrics are of secondary importance, a pretty loose translation is generally perfectly acceptable, as long as it fits with the music. (For example, in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado, the standard French version for "defer, defer to the Lord High Executioner" is "honneur, honneur pour le très puissant Exécuteur" which, although not accurate, is close enough and, most importantly, fits with the music.)

  
  

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edited 20 hours ago

answered 20 hours ago

AlexP

31.9k773123

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  There have even been cases where subtitles have been used in England for a particularly strong regional accent such as Brummie.
  – Sarriesfan
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  The problems with literal translation can be especially apparent with particularly literal-minded fansubbing groups for Japanese anime.
  – forest
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
5
down vote

The translators don't need to be perfect, or even used at all, in order for different cultures to enjoy eachother's works.

Not every person who enjoys classical opera can speak 18th century Italian or French. Not every person who enjoys K-pop can speak Korean. Not every person who enjoys The Canterbury Tales can speak Medieval English. Not every person who enjoys modern art knows the meaning behind each piece. You probably didn't fully understand your favorite song's lyrics on the first listen, yet you still enjoyed it.

And when the market is big enough for some art form, custom translations will definitely be made in order to bridge the gap between cultures, as with certain works of art here on Earth.

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 21 hours ago

Giter

9,32842030

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  Agree with you on everything except Canterbury. How do you enjoy a work of literature without knowing its language? ... Or do you mean for its poetic-ness, rhyming, etc?
  – Malandy
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  @Malandy, following the answers here, it seems like it would be fine either way. I believe he means when the language is not understood in a standard way.
  – theREALyumdub
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  @Malandy: Chaucer's Tales of Canterbury is of course available in Modern English translation, as well as in translations in many other languages; just as, for example, Homer's Odyssey is seldom read in the original Homeric Greek.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  @AlexP i disagree here, if you read translation, you enjoying interpretation made by translator rather than base source. If you have more complex text, and author uses complex wordplay specific for his language it will be lost during translation
  – user902383
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  @user902383: "Wordplay" in the source language can either be substituted with wordplay in the target language, or dropped altogether. That's why translations always carry the translator's name: they are derived works, merging the creativity of the author with the creativity of the translator. Traduttore, traditore. There is normally a great difference between translating technical works and literary works; but sometimes, even technical works (for example, Knuth's Art of Computer Programming) will require a great deal of creativity.
  – AlexP
  1 hour ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
2
down vote

Having someone speak to you while you are attempting to listen to music is annoying and distracting. Reading text is far easier. At the beginning of a live performance, the ushers give the standard pre-show speech - "Exits located at the front and rear of the stage, please silence all mobile devices," - as well as "If you would like to fully appreciate tonight's work, please turn your translators into subtitle mode." The visor will show the pre-translated lyrics, letting you enjoy both the music and the meaning without sacrificing either. If you're listening to pop music on the iPhone L, then you can just go into the options menu and turn Subtitles on.

share|improve this answer

answered 17 hours ago

chif-ii

512412

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  The first two times I saw The Fellowship of the Ring were overseas. The "Elvish" sections sounded beautiful, but because the English language subtitles were overwritten in the local languages I was relying on my memory of the books until I saw an English language version later - your proposed tech would have been useful.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

I hate to spoil a setting, but from sociology perspective, this situation is not possible.

If everybody needs to talk to each other, a common language will emerge, simply for convenience of communication not affected by AI. Voice communication via mics is not the only situation, you want to read text and graffiti, understand garbled emergency warnings, sink advertizing messages directly into brains of native speaker, etc.

Observe how English is official language in India and EU, despite being a foreign language to everybody who lives there.

The only you can avoid common language is if people are so spread out that they each group talks only to a few others. But then it is feasible to have humans translate the artworks. And there might be little demand to translate artworks from other end of the galaxy, since context and culture are wildly different.

Finally, you can train AI to understand cultural references and shades of meaning: Observe how IBM's Watson has won Jeopardy. It is just that at current prices, it is cheaper to hire human translators (or make the art in English in the first place).

share|improve this answer

answered 18 hours ago

Bald Bear

3,495513

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  I'll challenge this. India was a part of UK for a very long time so it's natural that English is widely spoken there. Of course it works for them now since English indeed is a lingua franca in the common business communication. Still it can be tricky to run a normal everyday communication with a random foreigner met in the rural area. And I have experienced that in Italy, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, France, and Spain, all of them being EU states. On the other hand Google Translate already served its purpose during 2018 Football World Championship in Russia. Do not underestimate technology.
  – Ister
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  @Ister: India was never part of the UK. For some time, India was in a personal union with the UK, but the two crowns and the two countries remained separate. (For example, in 1920, India became a founding member of the League of Nations, alongside the UK and many others.) The British Empire was a complicated and sui-generis structure, very loosely united by the person of the monarch.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  English is not a "foreign language to everybody" who lives in the E.U. Aren't you forgetting the Irish? Moreover, in the E.U. we distinguish between "official languages" (which are all 24 of the official languages of the member states), the "procedural languages" of the European Commission (English, French and German) and the "working languages" of the various E.U. institutions; for example, the working language of the European Central Bank is English, whereas the European Court of Justice uses French.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


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  A common language cannot evolve where species with different sensory limits are involved. If one species communicates by creating patches of "colour" on their skin in a part of the spectrum that another species cannot even perceive, and another species communicates vocally in a part of the audio spectrum that another species cannot even hear then a common language is not possible. The closest you would get would be a standard "translator machine" language, that each other language would be translated to and from, but that does not address the OP's stated problem.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  @AlexP thanks for clarification, I wasn't aware of this details. Anyway argument stands, for political reasons English was the main official language in India even though it was imported. As such it is widely known by default. It is really not the same in the whole EU even though it is quite widely spoken here as well.
  – Ister
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

The translation will not be accurate in terms of translating word for word. It'll be closer to getting the message, and formulating it in the best possible way in the new language.

The technology of AI and deep learning are still on their early stages but they develop rapidly now. You may predict that in few years, definitely in few dozen it'll be able to translate as accurately as professional interpreters or even better. It will be also able to recognise poetry lyrics. It might be that deep learning AI can be better at understanding poets emotions and messages that the poetry conveys than people do and if so, it'll translate better, probably keeping the rhythm and meaning of the original poem but using totally different wording. It might be also that it'll offer possibilities to decide on going from as strict wording to as strict meaning as possible setting with all shades in between. The worst case scenario is it will simply warn that this is a poetry and as such cannot be translated literally and the offered translation is just a very rough approximation.

Anyway music translation is PITA. Yet music itself can convey emotions so as already mentioned in other answers you may as well listen to the music not understanding the words at all. Of course sometimes it can lead to a misunderstanding, like in this song, with a cheerful music and extremely sad lyrics but those will be exceptions rather than a rule. So it might be music will be often listened in the original version and just like in our reality a will to understand it better can be a trigger to learn other languages even though in a normal conversation AI does the trick with 99,98% accuracy.

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Ister

98111

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

Yes and No... So assuming you have a "musically inclined" translation AI there's no real problem.Lyrics can be twisted pretty hard before they're unacceptable, just see how many ways you can sing some rap without it sounding atrocious. If it's figuring out how to fit the new words into the song then there's no issue. However, you do lose a lot of original quality to the song. It can even go as far as missing intent like your example seems to stray towards. And there will usually be a gravitation of the original lyrics towards the beat of the song that your new lyrics, while keeping beat, might not necessarily have. You also have compact cultural reference, idioms, and metaphors that don't translate well and most of the time don't translate at all. I know you stated dodging that bullet for the most part. But for someone without the cultural references words can translate into a massive definition. And even then be incomplete.

As for the translation itself, even for someone fluent in just both languages and having communication with the original author the process... let's just say it's intense. You're not likely to get it perfect or even close with an AI. You're asking a computer to solve P=NP.

Of course assuming P=NP in your universe, you could do this to perfection. Whether perfection results in capturing all the qualities of the music is once again up for debate. But you could prove you did your best. Not that you need perfection if you want to toss P=NP. And a quantum AI has an entirely better shot at solving this problem without P=NP if you want to skirt the fanciful science.

So depending on how hard you want to twist science and your listener's ear the answer ranges from Yes to No. Your best bet is probably to just do a direct translation with some kind of emotional meter at the top. Which, that said, some emotion via music doesn't need lyrics. Just listen to some traditional Irish keening and you'll see what I mean. There's tons of cultural music that just doesn't need a translation.

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answered 15 hours ago

Black

2,6051727

add a comment | 

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up vote
19
down vote

You don't need to understand music to appreciate it.

I listen to japanese music without translation because I hear it from the openings on shows. I listen to vocaloid styled music without knowing the base language. The pacing of lyrics and the instrumentals mean more to me than the actual words.

Technically, Pop music already works this way. I can't have fun singing those repetitive lyrics but from a distance its not unpleasing to my ears.

share|improve this answer

answered 21 hours ago

IT Alex

4013

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  I have to admit, telling someone to "just turn off the translator and listen" does seem like a good moment for a story.
  – Pinion Minion
  20 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  Since modern Japanese is about 30% borrow words from English, I find i can understand about 50% or the music you reference - enough that I can tell when the translators try to gloss over a cultural difference.
  – pojo-guy
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  Same here (with the addition of Korean, Spanish, German, and Swedish as well), though I quite often know the English translations of the lyrics too, but even then I generally avoid focusing on the meaning because it distracts me from enjoying the music.
  – Austin Hemmelgarn
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  My absolute favorite: Russian trap / rap, even though I don't speak a word of any slavic language
  – Hobbamok
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  I just want to point out that a lot of vocaloid music has lyrics going in a completely different direction from the general feeling, and that is a deliberate choice. So, while you can "just listen", you will be appreciating a completely different thing compared to the original song. E.g., all the cheery-peppy songs about depression, abuse and suicide.
  – Alice
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
19
down vote

You don't need to understand music to appreciate it.

I listen to japanese music without translation because I hear it from the openings on shows. I listen to vocaloid styled music without knowing the base language. The pacing of lyrics and the instrumentals mean more to me than the actual words.

Technically, Pop music already works this way. I can't have fun singing those repetitive lyrics but from a distance its not unpleasing to my ears.

share|improve this answer

answered 21 hours ago

IT Alex

4013

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  12
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I have to admit, telling someone to "just turn off the translator and listen" does seem like a good moment for a story.
  – Pinion Minion
  20 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Since modern Japanese is about 30% borrow words from English, I find i can understand about 50% or the music you reference - enough that I can tell when the translators try to gloss over a cultural difference.
  – pojo-guy
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  Same here (with the addition of Korean, Spanish, German, and Swedish as well), though I quite often know the English translations of the lyrics too, but even then I generally avoid focusing on the meaning because it distracts me from enjoying the music.
  – Austin Hemmelgarn
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  My absolute favorite: Russian trap / rap, even though I don't speak a word of any slavic language
  – Hobbamok
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I just want to point out that a lot of vocaloid music has lyrics going in a completely different direction from the general feeling, and that is a deliberate choice. So, while you can "just listen", you will be appreciating a completely different thing compared to the original song. E.g., all the cheery-peppy songs about depression, abuse and suicide.
  – Alice
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
19
down vote

up vote
19
down vote

You don't need to understand music to appreciate it.

I listen to japanese music without translation because I hear it from the openings on shows. I listen to vocaloid styled music without knowing the base language. The pacing of lyrics and the instrumentals mean more to me than the actual words.

Technically, Pop music already works this way. I can't have fun singing those repetitive lyrics but from a distance its not unpleasing to my ears.

share|improve this answer

answered 21 hours ago

IT Alex

4013

You don't need to understand music to appreciate it.

I listen to japanese music without translation because I hear it from the openings on shows. I listen to vocaloid styled music without knowing the base language. The pacing of lyrics and the instrumentals mean more to me than the actual words.

Technically, Pop music already works this way. I can't have fun singing those repetitive lyrics but from a distance its not unpleasing to my ears.

share|improve this answer

answered 21 hours ago

IT Alex

4013

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered 21 hours ago

IT Alex

4013

answered 21 hours ago

IT Alex

4013

answered 21 hours ago

IT Alex

4013

4013

• 
  
  
  

  
  12
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I have to admit, telling someone to "just turn off the translator and listen" does seem like a good moment for a story.
  – Pinion Minion
  20 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Since modern Japanese is about 30% borrow words from English, I find i can understand about 50% or the music you reference - enough that I can tell when the translators try to gloss over a cultural difference.
  – pojo-guy
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Same here (with the addition of Korean, Spanish, German, and Swedish as well), though I quite often know the English translations of the lyrics too, but even then I generally avoid focusing on the meaning because it distracts me from enjoying the music.
  – Austin Hemmelgarn
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  My absolute favorite: Russian trap / rap, even though I don't speak a word of any slavic language
  – Hobbamok
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I just want to point out that a lot of vocaloid music has lyrics going in a completely different direction from the general feeling, and that is a deliberate choice. So, while you can "just listen", you will be appreciating a completely different thing compared to the original song. E.g., all the cheery-peppy songs about depression, abuse and suicide.
  – Alice
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  12
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I have to admit, telling someone to "just turn off the translator and listen" does seem like a good moment for a story.
  – Pinion Minion
  20 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Since modern Japanese is about 30% borrow words from English, I find i can understand about 50% or the music you reference - enough that I can tell when the translators try to gloss over a cultural difference.
  – pojo-guy
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Same here (with the addition of Korean, Spanish, German, and Swedish as well), though I quite often know the English translations of the lyrics too, but even then I generally avoid focusing on the meaning because it distracts me from enjoying the music.
  – Austin Hemmelgarn
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  My absolute favorite: Russian trap / rap, even though I don't speak a word of any slavic language
  – Hobbamok
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I just want to point out that a lot of vocaloid music has lyrics going in a completely different direction from the general feeling, and that is a deliberate choice. So, while you can "just listen", you will be appreciating a completely different thing compared to the original song. E.g., all the cheery-peppy songs about depression, abuse and suicide.
  – Alice
  1 hour ago
  

  
  
  
  

12

12

I have to admit, telling someone to "just turn off the translator and listen" does seem like a good moment for a story.
– Pinion Minion
20 hours ago

I have to admit, telling someone to "just turn off the translator and listen" does seem like a good moment for a story.
– Pinion Minion
20 hours ago

Since modern Japanese is about 30% borrow words from English, I find i can understand about 50% or the music you reference - enough that I can tell when the translators try to gloss over a cultural difference.
– pojo-guy
15 hours ago

Since modern Japanese is about 30% borrow words from English, I find i can understand about 50% or the music you reference - enough that I can tell when the translators try to gloss over a cultural difference.
– pojo-guy
15 hours ago

Same here (with the addition of Korean, Spanish, German, and Swedish as well), though I quite often know the English translations of the lyrics too, but even then I generally avoid focusing on the meaning because it distracts me from enjoying the music.
– Austin Hemmelgarn
12 hours ago

Same here (with the addition of Korean, Spanish, German, and Swedish as well), though I quite often know the English translations of the lyrics too, but even then I generally avoid focusing on the meaning because it distracts me from enjoying the music.
– Austin Hemmelgarn
12 hours ago

1

1

My absolute favorite: Russian trap / rap, even though I don't speak a word of any slavic language
– Hobbamok
5 hours ago

My absolute favorite: Russian trap / rap, even though I don't speak a word of any slavic language
– Hobbamok
5 hours ago

I just want to point out that a lot of vocaloid music has lyrics going in a completely different direction from the general feeling, and that is a deliberate choice. So, while you can "just listen", you will be appreciating a completely different thing compared to the original song. E.g., all the cheery-peppy songs about depression, abuse and suicide.
– Alice
1 hour ago

I just want to point out that a lot of vocaloid music has lyrics going in a completely different direction from the general feeling, and that is a deliberate choice. So, while you can "just listen", you will be appreciating a completely different thing compared to the original song. E.g., all the cheery-peppy songs about depression, abuse and suicide.
– Alice
1 hour ago

add a comment | 

up vote
16
down vote

• 
  

  "Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly":

  
  
  

  Actually there are only about 100 languages spoken natively by more than 0.1% of the population of Earth. Out of those 4500 languages, 4000 have minuscule numbers of speakers.

  
  


• 
  

  "Some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television" . . .

  
  
  

  . . . which is hardly unexpected given than (a) Scots and English are closely related yet different languages, and (b) there are many many local variants of English spoken in the British Isles. (Hint: very few people on the British Isles speak RP natively.)

  
  


• 
  

  "The AI translates for maximum accuracy":

  
  
  

  What does this even mean?

  
  
  

  Let's take a very simple example. Let's suppose that the AI is translating from French into English, and it hears the sentence "ils se tutoyaient". How will the AI translate this simple and ordinary French sentence into English?

  
  
  

  • The literal translation would be "they were speaking to each other using the second person singular". (And even this dreadful translation is not completely accurate, because it could equally translate "elles se tutoyaient" -- English simply does not have the possibility to express gender in the 3rd person plural personal pronouns. Not to mention that blindly rendering the French imperfect with the English past continuous is problematic.) I hope we can agree that such a stilted translation would not be acceptable.

  
  

  • A better translation would be "there was no formality between them", or maybe "they chatted informally".

  
  

  The point is that what is the "maximally accurate" translation depends very much on the purpose of the translation. That's why in a book or article on linguistics the phrase might be rendered "they^masc. [reflexive] use-second-person-singular^{imperf. pl.}", whereas in a story it might be rendered "they were quite close": because there is never such a thing as the most accurate translation, only the best translation for the specific purpose.

  
  
  

  Which brings us to the problem of poetry . . .

  
  


• 
  

  "Rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier":

  
  
  

  First of all, rhyme and meter are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of poetry.

  
  
  

  But anyway we know that great poets can actually translate poetry. You see, in the case of poetry the maximally accurate translation is not the plodding literal translation, but the translation which best carries the beauty and mystery of the poem; literal accuracy is of secondary importance.

  
  
  

  Sometimes, a translation is so successful that it becomes the standard rendition in the target language. For example, it doesn't matter one iota what is the literal meaning of Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat #51: in the English language, the standard, fixed, and unquestionable form is that given by Edward FitzGerald: "the moving finger writes: and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it".

  
  
  

  This is why, when poetry is quoted in a book, a human translator won't even attempt to translate it if there already is a good translation; the poetry will be quoted in the already established form, which a footnote indicating the source.

  
  
  

  As for the meter, it is sometimes preserved, sometimes adapted; for example, the famous English translation of the Iliad by George Chapman is written in iambic heptameter ("Achilles’ bane full wrath resound, O Goddesse, that imposd
  infinite sorrowes on the Greekes, and many brave soules losd"...) whereas the original is, of course, in dactylic hexameter.

  
  


• 
  

  "What really interested me was music":

  
  
  

  Music does not need to be translated. What could possibly mean to translate Bach's Brandenburg Concertos? Translate from what into what?

  
  
  

  Maybe you mean "translate the lyrics"; this is simply a subcase of translating poetry, with the difference that in the case of song lyrics rhyme and meter are much more important than meaning.

  
  
  

  Given that in the overwhelming majority of cases the lyrics are of secondary importance, a pretty loose translation is generally perfectly acceptable, as long as it fits with the music. (For example, in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado, the standard French version for "defer, defer to the Lord High Executioner" is "honneur, honneur pour le très puissant Exécuteur" which, although not accurate, is close enough and, most importantly, fits with the music.)

  
  

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 20 hours ago

AlexP

31.9k773123

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  There have even been cases where subtitles have been used in England for a particularly strong regional accent such as Brummie.
  – Sarriesfan
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


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  The problems with literal translation can be especially apparent with particularly literal-minded fansubbing groups for Japanese anime.
  – forest
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
16
down vote

• 
  

  "Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly":

  
  
  

  Actually there are only about 100 languages spoken natively by more than 0.1% of the population of Earth. Out of those 4500 languages, 4000 have minuscule numbers of speakers.

  
  


• 
  

  "Some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television" . . .

  
  
  

  . . . which is hardly unexpected given than (a) Scots and English are closely related yet different languages, and (b) there are many many local variants of English spoken in the British Isles. (Hint: very few people on the British Isles speak RP natively.)

  
  


• 
  

  "The AI translates for maximum accuracy":

  
  
  

  What does this even mean?

  
  
  

  Let's take a very simple example. Let's suppose that the AI is translating from French into English, and it hears the sentence "ils se tutoyaient". How will the AI translate this simple and ordinary French sentence into English?

  
  
  

  • The literal translation would be "they were speaking to each other using the second person singular". (And even this dreadful translation is not completely accurate, because it could equally translate "elles se tutoyaient" -- English simply does not have the possibility to express gender in the 3rd person plural personal pronouns. Not to mention that blindly rendering the French imperfect with the English past continuous is problematic.) I hope we can agree that such a stilted translation would not be acceptable.

  
  

  • A better translation would be "there was no formality between them", or maybe "they chatted informally".

  
  

  The point is that what is the "maximally accurate" translation depends very much on the purpose of the translation. That's why in a book or article on linguistics the phrase might be rendered "they^masc. [reflexive] use-second-person-singular^{imperf. pl.}", whereas in a story it might be rendered "they were quite close": because there is never such a thing as the most accurate translation, only the best translation for the specific purpose.

  
  
  

  Which brings us to the problem of poetry . . .

  
  


• 
  

  "Rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier":

  
  
  

  First of all, rhyme and meter are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of poetry.

  
  
  

  But anyway we know that great poets can actually translate poetry. You see, in the case of poetry the maximally accurate translation is not the plodding literal translation, but the translation which best carries the beauty and mystery of the poem; literal accuracy is of secondary importance.

  
  
  

  Sometimes, a translation is so successful that it becomes the standard rendition in the target language. For example, it doesn't matter one iota what is the literal meaning of Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat #51: in the English language, the standard, fixed, and unquestionable form is that given by Edward FitzGerald: "the moving finger writes: and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it".

  
  
  

  This is why, when poetry is quoted in a book, a human translator won't even attempt to translate it if there already is a good translation; the poetry will be quoted in the already established form, which a footnote indicating the source.

  
  
  

  As for the meter, it is sometimes preserved, sometimes adapted; for example, the famous English translation of the Iliad by George Chapman is written in iambic heptameter ("Achilles’ bane full wrath resound, O Goddesse, that imposd
  infinite sorrowes on the Greekes, and many brave soules losd"...) whereas the original is, of course, in dactylic hexameter.

  
  


• 
  

  "What really interested me was music":

  
  
  

  Music does not need to be translated. What could possibly mean to translate Bach's Brandenburg Concertos? Translate from what into what?

  
  
  

  Maybe you mean "translate the lyrics"; this is simply a subcase of translating poetry, with the difference that in the case of song lyrics rhyme and meter are much more important than meaning.

  
  
  

  Given that in the overwhelming majority of cases the lyrics are of secondary importance, a pretty loose translation is generally perfectly acceptable, as long as it fits with the music. (For example, in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado, the standard French version for "defer, defer to the Lord High Executioner" is "honneur, honneur pour le très puissant Exécuteur" which, although not accurate, is close enough and, most importantly, fits with the music.)

  
  

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 20 hours ago

AlexP

31.9k773123

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There have even been cases where subtitles have been used in England for a particularly strong regional accent such as Brummie.
  – Sarriesfan
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The problems with literal translation can be especially apparent with particularly literal-minded fansubbing groups for Japanese anime.
  – forest
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
16
down vote

up vote
16
down vote

• 
  

  "Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly":

  
  
  

  Actually there are only about 100 languages spoken natively by more than 0.1% of the population of Earth. Out of those 4500 languages, 4000 have minuscule numbers of speakers.

  
  


• 
  

  "Some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television" . . .

  
  
  

  . . . which is hardly unexpected given than (a) Scots and English are closely related yet different languages, and (b) there are many many local variants of English spoken in the British Isles. (Hint: very few people on the British Isles speak RP natively.)

  
  


• 
  

  "The AI translates for maximum accuracy":

  
  
  

  What does this even mean?

  
  
  

  Let's take a very simple example. Let's suppose that the AI is translating from French into English, and it hears the sentence "ils se tutoyaient". How will the AI translate this simple and ordinary French sentence into English?

  
  
  

  • The literal translation would be "they were speaking to each other using the second person singular". (And even this dreadful translation is not completely accurate, because it could equally translate "elles se tutoyaient" -- English simply does not have the possibility to express gender in the 3rd person plural personal pronouns. Not to mention that blindly rendering the French imperfect with the English past continuous is problematic.) I hope we can agree that such a stilted translation would not be acceptable.

  
  

  • A better translation would be "there was no formality between them", or maybe "they chatted informally".

  
  

  The point is that what is the "maximally accurate" translation depends very much on the purpose of the translation. That's why in a book or article on linguistics the phrase might be rendered "they^masc. [reflexive] use-second-person-singular^{imperf. pl.}", whereas in a story it might be rendered "they were quite close": because there is never such a thing as the most accurate translation, only the best translation for the specific purpose.

  
  
  

  Which brings us to the problem of poetry . . .

  
  


• 
  

  "Rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier":

  
  
  

  First of all, rhyme and meter are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of poetry.

  
  
  

  But anyway we know that great poets can actually translate poetry. You see, in the case of poetry the maximally accurate translation is not the plodding literal translation, but the translation which best carries the beauty and mystery of the poem; literal accuracy is of secondary importance.

  
  
  

  Sometimes, a translation is so successful that it becomes the standard rendition in the target language. For example, it doesn't matter one iota what is the literal meaning of Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat #51: in the English language, the standard, fixed, and unquestionable form is that given by Edward FitzGerald: "the moving finger writes: and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it".

  
  
  

  This is why, when poetry is quoted in a book, a human translator won't even attempt to translate it if there already is a good translation; the poetry will be quoted in the already established form, which a footnote indicating the source.

  
  
  

  As for the meter, it is sometimes preserved, sometimes adapted; for example, the famous English translation of the Iliad by George Chapman is written in iambic heptameter ("Achilles’ bane full wrath resound, O Goddesse, that imposd
  infinite sorrowes on the Greekes, and many brave soules losd"...) whereas the original is, of course, in dactylic hexameter.

  
  


• 
  

  "What really interested me was music":

  
  
  

  Music does not need to be translated. What could possibly mean to translate Bach's Brandenburg Concertos? Translate from what into what?

  
  
  

  Maybe you mean "translate the lyrics"; this is simply a subcase of translating poetry, with the difference that in the case of song lyrics rhyme and meter are much more important than meaning.

  
  
  

  Given that in the overwhelming majority of cases the lyrics are of secondary importance, a pretty loose translation is generally perfectly acceptable, as long as it fits with the music. (For example, in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado, the standard French version for "defer, defer to the Lord High Executioner" is "honneur, honneur pour le très puissant Exécuteur" which, although not accurate, is close enough and, most importantly, fits with the music.)

  
  

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 20 hours ago

AlexP

31.9k773123

• 
  

  "Earth has abut 4,500 languages spoken commonly":

  
  
  

  Actually there are only about 100 languages spoken natively by more than 0.1% of the population of Earth. Out of those 4500 languages, 4000 have minuscule numbers of speakers.

  
  


• 
  

  "Some parts of Scotland needs to be subtitled on British television" . . .

  
  
  

  . . . which is hardly unexpected given than (a) Scots and English are closely related yet different languages, and (b) there are many many local variants of English spoken in the British Isles. (Hint: very few people on the British Isles speak RP natively.)

  
  


• 
  

  "The AI translates for maximum accuracy":

  
  
  

  What does this even mean?

  
  
  

  Let's take a very simple example. Let's suppose that the AI is translating from French into English, and it hears the sentence "ils se tutoyaient". How will the AI translate this simple and ordinary French sentence into English?

  
  
  

  • The literal translation would be "they were speaking to each other using the second person singular". (And even this dreadful translation is not completely accurate, because it could equally translate "elles se tutoyaient" -- English simply does not have the possibility to express gender in the 3rd person plural personal pronouns. Not to mention that blindly rendering the French imperfect with the English past continuous is problematic.) I hope we can agree that such a stilted translation would not be acceptable.

  
  

  • A better translation would be "there was no formality between them", or maybe "they chatted informally".

  
  

  The point is that what is the "maximally accurate" translation depends very much on the purpose of the translation. That's why in a book or article on linguistics the phrase might be rendered "they^masc. [reflexive] use-second-person-singular^{imperf. pl.}", whereas in a story it might be rendered "they were quite close": because there is never such a thing as the most accurate translation, only the best translation for the specific purpose.

  
  
  

  Which brings us to the problem of poetry . . .

  
  


• 
  

  "Rhyme and meter would disintegrate across the language barrier":

  
  
  

  First of all, rhyme and meter are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of poetry.

  
  
  

  But anyway we know that great poets can actually translate poetry. You see, in the case of poetry the maximally accurate translation is not the plodding literal translation, but the translation which best carries the beauty and mystery of the poem; literal accuracy is of secondary importance.

  
  
  

  Sometimes, a translation is so successful that it becomes the standard rendition in the target language. For example, it doesn't matter one iota what is the literal meaning of Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat #51: in the English language, the standard, fixed, and unquestionable form is that given by Edward FitzGerald: "the moving finger writes: and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it".

  
  
  

  This is why, when poetry is quoted in a book, a human translator won't even attempt to translate it if there already is a good translation; the poetry will be quoted in the already established form, which a footnote indicating the source.

  
  
  

  As for the meter, it is sometimes preserved, sometimes adapted; for example, the famous English translation of the Iliad by George Chapman is written in iambic heptameter ("Achilles’ bane full wrath resound, O Goddesse, that imposd
  infinite sorrowes on the Greekes, and many brave soules losd"...) whereas the original is, of course, in dactylic hexameter.

  
  


• 
  

  "What really interested me was music":

  
  
  

  Music does not need to be translated. What could possibly mean to translate Bach's Brandenburg Concertos? Translate from what into what?

  
  
  

  Maybe you mean "translate the lyrics"; this is simply a subcase of translating poetry, with the difference that in the case of song lyrics rhyme and meter are much more important than meaning.

  
  
  

  Given that in the overwhelming majority of cases the lyrics are of secondary importance, a pretty loose translation is generally perfectly acceptable, as long as it fits with the music. (For example, in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado, the standard French version for "defer, defer to the Lord High Executioner" is "honneur, honneur pour le très puissant Exécuteur" which, although not accurate, is close enough and, most importantly, fits with the music.)

  
  

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 20 hours ago

AlexP

31.9k773123

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

edited 20 hours ago

edited 20 hours ago

answered 20 hours ago

AlexP

31.9k773123

answered 20 hours ago

AlexP

31.9k773123

answered 20 hours ago

AlexP

31.9k773123

31.9k773123

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There have even been cases where subtitles have been used in England for a particularly strong regional accent such as Brummie.
  – Sarriesfan
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The problems with literal translation can be especially apparent with particularly literal-minded fansubbing groups for Japanese anime.
  – forest
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  There have even been cases where subtitles have been used in England for a particularly strong regional accent such as Brummie.
  – Sarriesfan
  7 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The problems with literal translation can be especially apparent with particularly literal-minded fansubbing groups for Japanese anime.
  – forest
  4 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

There have even been cases where subtitles have been used in England for a particularly strong regional accent such as Brummie.
– Sarriesfan
7 hours ago

There have even been cases where subtitles have been used in England for a particularly strong regional accent such as Brummie.
– Sarriesfan
7 hours ago

The problems with literal translation can be especially apparent with particularly literal-minded fansubbing groups for Japanese anime.
– forest
4 hours ago

The problems with literal translation can be especially apparent with particularly literal-minded fansubbing groups for Japanese anime.
– forest
4 hours ago

add a comment | 

up vote
5
down vote

The translators don't need to be perfect, or even used at all, in order for different cultures to enjoy eachother's works.

Not every person who enjoys classical opera can speak 18th century Italian or French. Not every person who enjoys K-pop can speak Korean. Not every person who enjoys The Canterbury Tales can speak Medieval English. Not every person who enjoys modern art knows the meaning behind each piece. You probably didn't fully understand your favorite song's lyrics on the first listen, yet you still enjoyed it.

And when the market is big enough for some art form, custom translations will definitely be made in order to bridge the gap between cultures, as with certain works of art here on Earth.

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 21 hours ago

Giter

9,32842030

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Agree with you on everything except Canterbury. How do you enjoy a work of literature without knowing its language? ... Or do you mean for its poetic-ness, rhyming, etc?
  – Malandy
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Malandy, following the answers here, it seems like it would be fine either way. I believe he means when the language is not understood in a standard way.
  – theREALyumdub
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Malandy: Chaucer's Tales of Canterbury is of course available in Modern English translation, as well as in translations in many other languages; just as, for example, Homer's Odyssey is seldom read in the original Homeric Greek.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexP i disagree here, if you read translation, you enjoying interpretation made by translator rather than base source. If you have more complex text, and author uses complex wordplay specific for his language it will be lost during translation
  – user902383
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @user902383: "Wordplay" in the source language can either be substituted with wordplay in the target language, or dropped altogether. That's why translations always carry the translator's name: they are derived works, merging the creativity of the author with the creativity of the translator. Traduttore, traditore. There is normally a great difference between translating technical works and literary works; but sometimes, even technical works (for example, Knuth's Art of Computer Programming) will require a great deal of creativity.
  – AlexP
  1 hour ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
5
down vote

The translators don't need to be perfect, or even used at all, in order for different cultures to enjoy eachother's works.

Not every person who enjoys classical opera can speak 18th century Italian or French. Not every person who enjoys K-pop can speak Korean. Not every person who enjoys The Canterbury Tales can speak Medieval English. Not every person who enjoys modern art knows the meaning behind each piece. You probably didn't fully understand your favorite song's lyrics on the first listen, yet you still enjoyed it.

And when the market is big enough for some art form, custom translations will definitely be made in order to bridge the gap between cultures, as with certain works of art here on Earth.

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 21 hours ago

Giter

9,32842030

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Agree with you on everything except Canterbury. How do you enjoy a work of literature without knowing its language? ... Or do you mean for its poetic-ness, rhyming, etc?
  – Malandy
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Malandy, following the answers here, it seems like it would be fine either way. I believe he means when the language is not understood in a standard way.
  – theREALyumdub
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Malandy: Chaucer's Tales of Canterbury is of course available in Modern English translation, as well as in translations in many other languages; just as, for example, Homer's Odyssey is seldom read in the original Homeric Greek.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexP i disagree here, if you read translation, you enjoying interpretation made by translator rather than base source. If you have more complex text, and author uses complex wordplay specific for his language it will be lost during translation
  – user902383
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @user902383: "Wordplay" in the source language can either be substituted with wordplay in the target language, or dropped altogether. That's why translations always carry the translator's name: they are derived works, merging the creativity of the author with the creativity of the translator. Traduttore, traditore. There is normally a great difference between translating technical works and literary works; but sometimes, even technical works (for example, Knuth's Art of Computer Programming) will require a great deal of creativity.
  – AlexP
  1 hour ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
5
down vote

up vote
5
down vote

The translators don't need to be perfect, or even used at all, in order for different cultures to enjoy eachother's works.

Not every person who enjoys classical opera can speak 18th century Italian or French. Not every person who enjoys K-pop can speak Korean. Not every person who enjoys The Canterbury Tales can speak Medieval English. Not every person who enjoys modern art knows the meaning behind each piece. You probably didn't fully understand your favorite song's lyrics on the first listen, yet you still enjoyed it.

And when the market is big enough for some art form, custom translations will definitely be made in order to bridge the gap between cultures, as with certain works of art here on Earth.

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 21 hours ago

Giter

9,32842030

The translators don't need to be perfect, or even used at all, in order for different cultures to enjoy eachother's works.

Not every person who enjoys classical opera can speak 18th century Italian or French. Not every person who enjoys K-pop can speak Korean. Not every person who enjoys The Canterbury Tales can speak Medieval English. Not every person who enjoys modern art knows the meaning behind each piece. You probably didn't fully understand your favorite song's lyrics on the first listen, yet you still enjoyed it.

And when the market is big enough for some art form, custom translations will definitely be made in order to bridge the gap between cultures, as with certain works of art here on Earth.

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

answered 21 hours ago

Giter

9,32842030

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited 20 hours ago

edited 20 hours ago

edited 20 hours ago

answered 21 hours ago

Giter

9,32842030

answered 21 hours ago

Giter

9,32842030

answered 21 hours ago

Giter

9,32842030

9,32842030

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Agree with you on everything except Canterbury. How do you enjoy a work of literature without knowing its language? ... Or do you mean for its poetic-ness, rhyming, etc?
  – Malandy
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Malandy, following the answers here, it seems like it would be fine either way. I believe he means when the language is not understood in a standard way.
  – theREALyumdub
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Malandy: Chaucer's Tales of Canterbury is of course available in Modern English translation, as well as in translations in many other languages; just as, for example, Homer's Odyssey is seldom read in the original Homeric Greek.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexP i disagree here, if you read translation, you enjoying interpretation made by translator rather than base source. If you have more complex text, and author uses complex wordplay specific for his language it will be lost during translation
  – user902383
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @user902383: "Wordplay" in the source language can either be substituted with wordplay in the target language, or dropped altogether. That's why translations always carry the translator's name: they are derived works, merging the creativity of the author with the creativity of the translator. Traduttore, traditore. There is normally a great difference between translating technical works and literary works; but sometimes, even technical works (for example, Knuth's Art of Computer Programming) will require a great deal of creativity.
  – AlexP
  1 hour ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Agree with you on everything except Canterbury. How do you enjoy a work of literature without knowing its language? ... Or do you mean for its poetic-ness, rhyming, etc?
  – Malandy
  16 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Malandy, following the answers here, it seems like it would be fine either way. I believe he means when the language is not understood in a standard way.
  – theREALyumdub
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Malandy: Chaucer's Tales of Canterbury is of course available in Modern English translation, as well as in translations in many other languages; just as, for example, Homer's Odyssey is seldom read in the original Homeric Greek.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexP i disagree here, if you read translation, you enjoying interpretation made by translator rather than base source. If you have more complex text, and author uses complex wordplay specific for his language it will be lost during translation
  – user902383
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @user902383: "Wordplay" in the source language can either be substituted with wordplay in the target language, or dropped altogether. That's why translations always carry the translator's name: they are derived works, merging the creativity of the author with the creativity of the translator. Traduttore, traditore. There is normally a great difference between translating technical works and literary works; but sometimes, even technical works (for example, Knuth's Art of Computer Programming) will require a great deal of creativity.
  – AlexP
  1 hour ago
  
  

  
  
  
  

Agree with you on everything except Canterbury. How do you enjoy a work of literature without knowing its language? ... Or do you mean for its poetic-ness, rhyming, etc?
– Malandy
16 hours ago

Agree with you on everything except Canterbury. How do you enjoy a work of literature without knowing its language? ... Or do you mean for its poetic-ness, rhyming, etc?
– Malandy
16 hours ago

@Malandy, following the answers here, it seems like it would be fine either way. I believe he means when the language is not understood in a standard way.
– theREALyumdub
15 hours ago

@Malandy, following the answers here, it seems like it would be fine either way. I believe he means when the language is not understood in a standard way.
– theREALyumdub
15 hours ago

@Malandy: Chaucer's Tales of Canterbury is of course available in Modern English translation, as well as in translations in many other languages; just as, for example, Homer's Odyssey is seldom read in the original Homeric Greek.
– AlexP
14 hours ago

@Malandy: Chaucer's Tales of Canterbury is of course available in Modern English translation, as well as in translations in many other languages; just as, for example, Homer's Odyssey is seldom read in the original Homeric Greek.
– AlexP
14 hours ago

@AlexP i disagree here, if you read translation, you enjoying interpretation made by translator rather than base source. If you have more complex text, and author uses complex wordplay specific for his language it will be lost during translation
– user902383
2 hours ago

@AlexP i disagree here, if you read translation, you enjoying interpretation made by translator rather than base source. If you have more complex text, and author uses complex wordplay specific for his language it will be lost during translation
– user902383
2 hours ago

@user902383: "Wordplay" in the source language can either be substituted with wordplay in the target language, or dropped altogether. That's why translations always carry the translator's name: they are derived works, merging the creativity of the author with the creativity of the translator. Traduttore, traditore. There is normally a great difference between translating technical works and literary works; but sometimes, even technical works (for example, Knuth's Art of Computer Programming) will require a great deal of creativity.
– AlexP
1 hour ago

@user902383: "Wordplay" in the source language can either be substituted with wordplay in the target language, or dropped altogether. That's why translations always carry the translator's name: they are derived works, merging the creativity of the author with the creativity of the translator. Traduttore, traditore. There is normally a great difference between translating technical works and literary works; but sometimes, even technical works (for example, Knuth's Art of Computer Programming) will require a great deal of creativity.
– AlexP
1 hour ago

add a comment | 

up vote
2
down vote

Having someone speak to you while you are attempting to listen to music is annoying and distracting. Reading text is far easier. At the beginning of a live performance, the ushers give the standard pre-show speech - "Exits located at the front and rear of the stage, please silence all mobile devices," - as well as "If you would like to fully appreciate tonight's work, please turn your translators into subtitle mode." The visor will show the pre-translated lyrics, letting you enjoy both the music and the meaning without sacrificing either. If you're listening to pop music on the iPhone L, then you can just go into the options menu and turn Subtitles on.

share|improve this answer

answered 17 hours ago

chif-ii

512412

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The first two times I saw The Fellowship of the Ring were overseas. The "Elvish" sections sounded beautiful, but because the English language subtitles were overwritten in the local languages I was relying on my memory of the books until I saw an English language version later - your proposed tech would have been useful.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
2
down vote

Having someone speak to you while you are attempting to listen to music is annoying and distracting. Reading text is far easier. At the beginning of a live performance, the ushers give the standard pre-show speech - "Exits located at the front and rear of the stage, please silence all mobile devices," - as well as "If you would like to fully appreciate tonight's work, please turn your translators into subtitle mode." The visor will show the pre-translated lyrics, letting you enjoy both the music and the meaning without sacrificing either. If you're listening to pop music on the iPhone L, then you can just go into the options menu and turn Subtitles on.

share|improve this answer

answered 17 hours ago

chif-ii

512412

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The first two times I saw The Fellowship of the Ring were overseas. The "Elvish" sections sounded beautiful, but because the English language subtitles were overwritten in the local languages I was relying on my memory of the books until I saw an English language version later - your proposed tech would have been useful.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
2
down vote

up vote
2
down vote

Having someone speak to you while you are attempting to listen to music is annoying and distracting. Reading text is far easier. At the beginning of a live performance, the ushers give the standard pre-show speech - "Exits located at the front and rear of the stage, please silence all mobile devices," - as well as "If you would like to fully appreciate tonight's work, please turn your translators into subtitle mode." The visor will show the pre-translated lyrics, letting you enjoy both the music and the meaning without sacrificing either. If you're listening to pop music on the iPhone L, then you can just go into the options menu and turn Subtitles on.

share|improve this answer

answered 17 hours ago

chif-ii

512412

Having someone speak to you while you are attempting to listen to music is annoying and distracting. Reading text is far easier. At the beginning of a live performance, the ushers give the standard pre-show speech - "Exits located at the front and rear of the stage, please silence all mobile devices," - as well as "If you would like to fully appreciate tonight's work, please turn your translators into subtitle mode." The visor will show the pre-translated lyrics, letting you enjoy both the music and the meaning without sacrificing either. If you're listening to pop music on the iPhone L, then you can just go into the options menu and turn Subtitles on.

share|improve this answer

answered 17 hours ago

chif-ii

512412

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered 17 hours ago

chif-ii

512412

answered 17 hours ago

chif-ii

512412

answered 17 hours ago

chif-ii

512412

512412

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The first two times I saw The Fellowship of the Ring were overseas. The "Elvish" sections sounded beautiful, but because the English language subtitles were overwritten in the local languages I was relying on my memory of the books until I saw an English language version later - your proposed tech would have been useful.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  The first two times I saw The Fellowship of the Ring were overseas. The "Elvish" sections sounded beautiful, but because the English language subtitles were overwritten in the local languages I was relying on my memory of the books until I saw an English language version later - your proposed tech would have been useful.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

The first two times I saw The Fellowship of the Ring were overseas. The "Elvish" sections sounded beautiful, but because the English language subtitles were overwritten in the local languages I was relying on my memory of the books until I saw an English language version later - your proposed tech would have been useful.
– KerrAvon2055
12 hours ago

The first two times I saw The Fellowship of the Ring were overseas. The "Elvish" sections sounded beautiful, but because the English language subtitles were overwritten in the local languages I was relying on my memory of the books until I saw an English language version later - your proposed tech would have been useful.
– KerrAvon2055
12 hours ago

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

I hate to spoil a setting, but from sociology perspective, this situation is not possible.

If everybody needs to talk to each other, a common language will emerge, simply for convenience of communication not affected by AI. Voice communication via mics is not the only situation, you want to read text and graffiti, understand garbled emergency warnings, sink advertizing messages directly into brains of native speaker, etc.

Observe how English is official language in India and EU, despite being a foreign language to everybody who lives there.

The only you can avoid common language is if people are so spread out that they each group talks only to a few others. But then it is feasible to have humans translate the artworks. And there might be little demand to translate artworks from other end of the galaxy, since context and culture are wildly different.

Finally, you can train AI to understand cultural references and shades of meaning: Observe how IBM's Watson has won Jeopardy. It is just that at current prices, it is cheaper to hire human translators (or make the art in English in the first place).

share|improve this answer

answered 18 hours ago

Bald Bear

3,495513

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'll challenge this. India was a part of UK for a very long time so it's natural that English is widely spoken there. Of course it works for them now since English indeed is a lingua franca in the common business communication. Still it can be tricky to run a normal everyday communication with a random foreigner met in the rural area. And I have experienced that in Italy, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, France, and Spain, all of them being EU states. On the other hand Google Translate already served its purpose during 2018 Football World Championship in Russia. Do not underestimate technology.
  – Ister
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Ister: India was never part of the UK. For some time, India was in a personal union with the UK, but the two crowns and the two countries remained separate. (For example, in 1920, India became a founding member of the League of Nations, alongside the UK and many others.) The British Empire was a complicated and sui-generis structure, very loosely united by the person of the monarch.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  English is not a "foreign language to everybody" who lives in the E.U. Aren't you forgetting the Irish? Moreover, in the E.U. we distinguish between "official languages" (which are all 24 of the official languages of the member states), the "procedural languages" of the European Commission (English, French and German) and the "working languages" of the various E.U. institutions; for example, the working language of the European Central Bank is English, whereas the European Court of Justice uses French.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  A common language cannot evolve where species with different sensory limits are involved. If one species communicates by creating patches of "colour" on their skin in a part of the spectrum that another species cannot even perceive, and another species communicates vocally in a part of the audio spectrum that another species cannot even hear then a common language is not possible. The closest you would get would be a standard "translator machine" language, that each other language would be translated to and from, but that does not address the OP's stated problem.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexP thanks for clarification, I wasn't aware of this details. Anyway argument stands, for political reasons English was the main official language in India even though it was imported. As such it is widely known by default. It is really not the same in the whole EU even though it is quite widely spoken here as well.
  – Ister
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

I hate to spoil a setting, but from sociology perspective, this situation is not possible.

If everybody needs to talk to each other, a common language will emerge, simply for convenience of communication not affected by AI. Voice communication via mics is not the only situation, you want to read text and graffiti, understand garbled emergency warnings, sink advertizing messages directly into brains of native speaker, etc.

Observe how English is official language in India and EU, despite being a foreign language to everybody who lives there.

The only you can avoid common language is if people are so spread out that they each group talks only to a few others. But then it is feasible to have humans translate the artworks. And there might be little demand to translate artworks from other end of the galaxy, since context and culture are wildly different.

Finally, you can train AI to understand cultural references and shades of meaning: Observe how IBM's Watson has won Jeopardy. It is just that at current prices, it is cheaper to hire human translators (or make the art in English in the first place).

share|improve this answer

answered 18 hours ago

Bald Bear

3,495513

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'll challenge this. India was a part of UK for a very long time so it's natural that English is widely spoken there. Of course it works for them now since English indeed is a lingua franca in the common business communication. Still it can be tricky to run a normal everyday communication with a random foreigner met in the rural area. And I have experienced that in Italy, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, France, and Spain, all of them being EU states. On the other hand Google Translate already served its purpose during 2018 Football World Championship in Russia. Do not underestimate technology.
  – Ister
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Ister: India was never part of the UK. For some time, India was in a personal union with the UK, but the two crowns and the two countries remained separate. (For example, in 1920, India became a founding member of the League of Nations, alongside the UK and many others.) The British Empire was a complicated and sui-generis structure, very loosely united by the person of the monarch.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  English is not a "foreign language to everybody" who lives in the E.U. Aren't you forgetting the Irish? Moreover, in the E.U. we distinguish between "official languages" (which are all 24 of the official languages of the member states), the "procedural languages" of the European Commission (English, French and German) and the "working languages" of the various E.U. institutions; for example, the working language of the European Central Bank is English, whereas the European Court of Justice uses French.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  A common language cannot evolve where species with different sensory limits are involved. If one species communicates by creating patches of "colour" on their skin in a part of the spectrum that another species cannot even perceive, and another species communicates vocally in a part of the audio spectrum that another species cannot even hear then a common language is not possible. The closest you would get would be a standard "translator machine" language, that each other language would be translated to and from, but that does not address the OP's stated problem.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexP thanks for clarification, I wasn't aware of this details. Anyway argument stands, for political reasons English was the main official language in India even though it was imported. As such it is widely known by default. It is really not the same in the whole EU even though it is quite widely spoken here as well.
  – Ister
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

up vote
1
down vote

I hate to spoil a setting, but from sociology perspective, this situation is not possible.

If everybody needs to talk to each other, a common language will emerge, simply for convenience of communication not affected by AI. Voice communication via mics is not the only situation, you want to read text and graffiti, understand garbled emergency warnings, sink advertizing messages directly into brains of native speaker, etc.

Observe how English is official language in India and EU, despite being a foreign language to everybody who lives there.

The only you can avoid common language is if people are so spread out that they each group talks only to a few others. But then it is feasible to have humans translate the artworks. And there might be little demand to translate artworks from other end of the galaxy, since context and culture are wildly different.

Finally, you can train AI to understand cultural references and shades of meaning: Observe how IBM's Watson has won Jeopardy. It is just that at current prices, it is cheaper to hire human translators (or make the art in English in the first place).

share|improve this answer

answered 18 hours ago

Bald Bear

3,495513

I hate to spoil a setting, but from sociology perspective, this situation is not possible.

If everybody needs to talk to each other, a common language will emerge, simply for convenience of communication not affected by AI. Voice communication via mics is not the only situation, you want to read text and graffiti, understand garbled emergency warnings, sink advertizing messages directly into brains of native speaker, etc.

Observe how English is official language in India and EU, despite being a foreign language to everybody who lives there.

The only you can avoid common language is if people are so spread out that they each group talks only to a few others. But then it is feasible to have humans translate the artworks. And there might be little demand to translate artworks from other end of the galaxy, since context and culture are wildly different.

Finally, you can train AI to understand cultural references and shades of meaning: Observe how IBM's Watson has won Jeopardy. It is just that at current prices, it is cheaper to hire human translators (or make the art in English in the first place).

share|improve this answer

answered 18 hours ago

Bald Bear

3,495513

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered 18 hours ago

Bald Bear

3,495513

answered 18 hours ago

Bald Bear

3,495513

answered 18 hours ago

Bald Bear

3,495513

3,495513

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'll challenge this. India was a part of UK for a very long time so it's natural that English is widely spoken there. Of course it works for them now since English indeed is a lingua franca in the common business communication. Still it can be tricky to run a normal everyday communication with a random foreigner met in the rural area. And I have experienced that in Italy, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, France, and Spain, all of them being EU states. On the other hand Google Translate already served its purpose during 2018 Football World Championship in Russia. Do not underestimate technology.
  – Ister
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Ister: India was never part of the UK. For some time, India was in a personal union with the UK, but the two crowns and the two countries remained separate. (For example, in 1920, India became a founding member of the League of Nations, alongside the UK and many others.) The British Empire was a complicated and sui-generis structure, very loosely united by the person of the monarch.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  English is not a "foreign language to everybody" who lives in the E.U. Aren't you forgetting the Irish? Moreover, in the E.U. we distinguish between "official languages" (which are all 24 of the official languages of the member states), the "procedural languages" of the European Commission (English, French and German) and the "working languages" of the various E.U. institutions; for example, the working language of the European Central Bank is English, whereas the European Court of Justice uses French.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  A common language cannot evolve where species with different sensory limits are involved. If one species communicates by creating patches of "colour" on their skin in a part of the spectrum that another species cannot even perceive, and another species communicates vocally in a part of the audio spectrum that another species cannot even hear then a common language is not possible. The closest you would get would be a standard "translator machine" language, that each other language would be translated to and from, but that does not address the OP's stated problem.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexP thanks for clarification, I wasn't aware of this details. Anyway argument stands, for political reasons English was the main official language in India even though it was imported. As such it is widely known by default. It is really not the same in the whole EU even though it is quite widely spoken here as well.
  – Ister
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'll challenge this. India was a part of UK for a very long time so it's natural that English is widely spoken there. Of course it works for them now since English indeed is a lingua franca in the common business communication. Still it can be tricky to run a normal everyday communication with a random foreigner met in the rural area. And I have experienced that in Italy, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, France, and Spain, all of them being EU states. On the other hand Google Translate already served its purpose during 2018 Football World Championship in Russia. Do not underestimate technology.
  – Ister
  15 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @Ister: India was never part of the UK. For some time, India was in a personal union with the UK, but the two crowns and the two countries remained separate. (For example, in 1920, India became a founding member of the League of Nations, alongside the UK and many others.) The British Empire was a complicated and sui-generis structure, very loosely united by the person of the monarch.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  English is not a "foreign language to everybody" who lives in the E.U. Aren't you forgetting the Irish? Moreover, in the E.U. we distinguish between "official languages" (which are all 24 of the official languages of the member states), the "procedural languages" of the European Commission (English, French and German) and the "working languages" of the various E.U. institutions; for example, the working language of the European Central Bank is English, whereas the European Court of Justice uses French.
  – AlexP
  14 hours ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  A common language cannot evolve where species with different sensory limits are involved. If one species communicates by creating patches of "colour" on their skin in a part of the spectrum that another species cannot even perceive, and another species communicates vocally in a part of the audio spectrum that another species cannot even hear then a common language is not possible. The closest you would get would be a standard "translator machine" language, that each other language would be translated to and from, but that does not address the OP's stated problem.
  – KerrAvon2055
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @AlexP thanks for clarification, I wasn't aware of this details. Anyway argument stands, for political reasons English was the main official language in India even though it was imported. As such it is widely known by default. It is really not the same in the whole EU even though it is quite widely spoken here as well.
  – Ister
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

I'll challenge this. India was a part of UK for a very long time so it's natural that English is widely spoken there. Of course it works for them now since English indeed is a lingua franca in the common business communication. Still it can be tricky to run a normal everyday communication with a random foreigner met in the rural area. And I have experienced that in Italy, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, France, and Spain, all of them being EU states. On the other hand Google Translate already served its purpose during 2018 Football World Championship in Russia. Do not underestimate technology.
– Ister
15 hours ago

I'll challenge this. India was a part of UK for a very long time so it's natural that English is widely spoken there. Of course it works for them now since English indeed is a lingua franca in the common business communication. Still it can be tricky to run a normal everyday communication with a random foreigner met in the rural area. And I have experienced that in Italy, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, France, and Spain, all of them being EU states. On the other hand Google Translate already served its purpose during 2018 Football World Championship in Russia. Do not underestimate technology.
– Ister
15 hours ago

@Ister: India was never part of the UK. For some time, India was in a personal union with the UK, but the two crowns and the two countries remained separate. (For example, in 1920, India became a founding member of the League of Nations, alongside the UK and many others.) The British Empire was a complicated and sui-generis structure, very loosely united by the person of the monarch.
– AlexP
14 hours ago

@Ister: India was never part of the UK. For some time, India was in a personal union with the UK, but the two crowns and the two countries remained separate. (For example, in 1920, India became a founding member of the League of Nations, alongside the UK and many others.) The British Empire was a complicated and sui-generis structure, very loosely united by the person of the monarch.
– AlexP
14 hours ago

English is not a "foreign language to everybody" who lives in the E.U. Aren't you forgetting the Irish? Moreover, in the E.U. we distinguish between "official languages" (which are all 24 of the official languages of the member states), the "procedural languages" of the European Commission (English, French and German) and the "working languages" of the various E.U. institutions; for example, the working language of the European Central Bank is English, whereas the European Court of Justice uses French.
– AlexP
14 hours ago

English is not a "foreign language to everybody" who lives in the E.U. Aren't you forgetting the Irish? Moreover, in the E.U. we distinguish between "official languages" (which are all 24 of the official languages of the member states), the "procedural languages" of the European Commission (English, French and German) and the "working languages" of the various E.U. institutions; for example, the working language of the European Central Bank is English, whereas the European Court of Justice uses French.
– AlexP
14 hours ago

2

2

A common language cannot evolve where species with different sensory limits are involved. If one species communicates by creating patches of "colour" on their skin in a part of the spectrum that another species cannot even perceive, and another species communicates vocally in a part of the audio spectrum that another species cannot even hear then a common language is not possible. The closest you would get would be a standard "translator machine" language, that each other language would be translated to and from, but that does not address the OP's stated problem.
– KerrAvon2055
12 hours ago

A common language cannot evolve where species with different sensory limits are involved. If one species communicates by creating patches of "colour" on their skin in a part of the spectrum that another species cannot even perceive, and another species communicates vocally in a part of the audio spectrum that another species cannot even hear then a common language is not possible. The closest you would get would be a standard "translator machine" language, that each other language would be translated to and from, but that does not address the OP's stated problem.
– KerrAvon2055
12 hours ago

@AlexP thanks for clarification, I wasn't aware of this details. Anyway argument stands, for political reasons English was the main official language in India even though it was imported. As such it is widely known by default. It is really not the same in the whole EU even though it is quite widely spoken here as well.
– Ister
6 hours ago

@AlexP thanks for clarification, I wasn't aware of this details. Anyway argument stands, for political reasons English was the main official language in India even though it was imported. As such it is widely known by default. It is really not the same in the whole EU even though it is quite widely spoken here as well.
– Ister
6 hours ago

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

The translation will not be accurate in terms of translating word for word. It'll be closer to getting the message, and formulating it in the best possible way in the new language.

The technology of AI and deep learning are still on their early stages but they develop rapidly now. You may predict that in few years, definitely in few dozen it'll be able to translate as accurately as professional interpreters or even better. It will be also able to recognise poetry lyrics. It might be that deep learning AI can be better at understanding poets emotions and messages that the poetry conveys than people do and if so, it'll translate better, probably keeping the rhythm and meaning of the original poem but using totally different wording. It might be also that it'll offer possibilities to decide on going from as strict wording to as strict meaning as possible setting with all shades in between. The worst case scenario is it will simply warn that this is a poetry and as such cannot be translated literally and the offered translation is just a very rough approximation.

Anyway music translation is PITA. Yet music itself can convey emotions so as already mentioned in other answers you may as well listen to the music not understanding the words at all. Of course sometimes it can lead to a misunderstanding, like in this song, with a cheerful music and extremely sad lyrics but those will be exceptions rather than a rule. So it might be music will be often listened in the original version and just like in our reality a will to understand it better can be a trigger to learn other languages even though in a normal conversation AI does the trick with 99,98% accuracy.

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Ister

98111

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

The translation will not be accurate in terms of translating word for word. It'll be closer to getting the message, and formulating it in the best possible way in the new language.

The technology of AI and deep learning are still on their early stages but they develop rapidly now. You may predict that in few years, definitely in few dozen it'll be able to translate as accurately as professional interpreters or even better. It will be also able to recognise poetry lyrics. It might be that deep learning AI can be better at understanding poets emotions and messages that the poetry conveys than people do and if so, it'll translate better, probably keeping the rhythm and meaning of the original poem but using totally different wording. It might be also that it'll offer possibilities to decide on going from as strict wording to as strict meaning as possible setting with all shades in between. The worst case scenario is it will simply warn that this is a poetry and as such cannot be translated literally and the offered translation is just a very rough approximation.

Anyway music translation is PITA. Yet music itself can convey emotions so as already mentioned in other answers you may as well listen to the music not understanding the words at all. Of course sometimes it can lead to a misunderstanding, like in this song, with a cheerful music and extremely sad lyrics but those will be exceptions rather than a rule. So it might be music will be often listened in the original version and just like in our reality a will to understand it better can be a trigger to learn other languages even though in a normal conversation AI does the trick with 99,98% accuracy.

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Ister

98111

add a comment | 

up vote
1
down vote

up vote
1
down vote

The translation will not be accurate in terms of translating word for word. It'll be closer to getting the message, and formulating it in the best possible way in the new language.

The technology of AI and deep learning are still on their early stages but they develop rapidly now. You may predict that in few years, definitely in few dozen it'll be able to translate as accurately as professional interpreters or even better. It will be also able to recognise poetry lyrics. It might be that deep learning AI can be better at understanding poets emotions and messages that the poetry conveys than people do and if so, it'll translate better, probably keeping the rhythm and meaning of the original poem but using totally different wording. It might be also that it'll offer possibilities to decide on going from as strict wording to as strict meaning as possible setting with all shades in between. The worst case scenario is it will simply warn that this is a poetry and as such cannot be translated literally and the offered translation is just a very rough approximation.

Anyway music translation is PITA. Yet music itself can convey emotions so as already mentioned in other answers you may as well listen to the music not understanding the words at all. Of course sometimes it can lead to a misunderstanding, like in this song, with a cheerful music and extremely sad lyrics but those will be exceptions rather than a rule. So it might be music will be often listened in the original version and just like in our reality a will to understand it better can be a trigger to learn other languages even though in a normal conversation AI does the trick with 99,98% accuracy.

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Ister

98111

The translation will not be accurate in terms of translating word for word. It'll be closer to getting the message, and formulating it in the best possible way in the new language.

The technology of AI and deep learning are still on their early stages but they develop rapidly now. You may predict that in few years, definitely in few dozen it'll be able to translate as accurately as professional interpreters or even better. It will be also able to recognise poetry lyrics. It might be that deep learning AI can be better at understanding poets emotions and messages that the poetry conveys than people do and if so, it'll translate better, probably keeping the rhythm and meaning of the original poem but using totally different wording. It might be also that it'll offer possibilities to decide on going from as strict wording to as strict meaning as possible setting with all shades in between. The worst case scenario is it will simply warn that this is a poetry and as such cannot be translated literally and the offered translation is just a very rough approximation.

Anyway music translation is PITA. Yet music itself can convey emotions so as already mentioned in other answers you may as well listen to the music not understanding the words at all. Of course sometimes it can lead to a misunderstanding, like in this song, with a cheerful music and extremely sad lyrics but those will be exceptions rather than a rule. So it might be music will be often listened in the original version and just like in our reality a will to understand it better can be a trigger to learn other languages even though in a normal conversation AI does the trick with 99,98% accuracy.

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Ister

98111

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Ister

98111

answered 15 hours ago

Ister

98111

answered 15 hours ago

Ister

98111

98111

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Yes and No... So assuming you have a "musically inclined" translation AI there's no real problem.Lyrics can be twisted pretty hard before they're unacceptable, just see how many ways you can sing some rap without it sounding atrocious. If it's figuring out how to fit the new words into the song then there's no issue. However, you do lose a lot of original quality to the song. It can even go as far as missing intent like your example seems to stray towards. And there will usually be a gravitation of the original lyrics towards the beat of the song that your new lyrics, while keeping beat, might not necessarily have. You also have compact cultural reference, idioms, and metaphors that don't translate well and most of the time don't translate at all. I know you stated dodging that bullet for the most part. But for someone without the cultural references words can translate into a massive definition. And even then be incomplete.

As for the translation itself, even for someone fluent in just both languages and having communication with the original author the process... let's just say it's intense. You're not likely to get it perfect or even close with an AI. You're asking a computer to solve P=NP.

Of course assuming P=NP in your universe, you could do this to perfection. Whether perfection results in capturing all the qualities of the music is once again up for debate. But you could prove you did your best. Not that you need perfection if you want to toss P=NP. And a quantum AI has an entirely better shot at solving this problem without P=NP if you want to skirt the fanciful science.

So depending on how hard you want to twist science and your listener's ear the answer ranges from Yes to No. Your best bet is probably to just do a direct translation with some kind of emotional meter at the top. Which, that said, some emotion via music doesn't need lyrics. Just listen to some traditional Irish keening and you'll see what I mean. There's tons of cultural music that just doesn't need a translation.

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answered 15 hours ago

Black

2,6051727

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up vote
0
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Yes and No... So assuming you have a "musically inclined" translation AI there's no real problem.Lyrics can be twisted pretty hard before they're unacceptable, just see how many ways you can sing some rap without it sounding atrocious. If it's figuring out how to fit the new words into the song then there's no issue. However, you do lose a lot of original quality to the song. It can even go as far as missing intent like your example seems to stray towards. And there will usually be a gravitation of the original lyrics towards the beat of the song that your new lyrics, while keeping beat, might not necessarily have. You also have compact cultural reference, idioms, and metaphors that don't translate well and most of the time don't translate at all. I know you stated dodging that bullet for the most part. But for someone without the cultural references words can translate into a massive definition. And even then be incomplete.

As for the translation itself, even for someone fluent in just both languages and having communication with the original author the process... let's just say it's intense. You're not likely to get it perfect or even close with an AI. You're asking a computer to solve P=NP.

Of course assuming P=NP in your universe, you could do this to perfection. Whether perfection results in capturing all the qualities of the music is once again up for debate. But you could prove you did your best. Not that you need perfection if you want to toss P=NP. And a quantum AI has an entirely better shot at solving this problem without P=NP if you want to skirt the fanciful science.

So depending on how hard you want to twist science and your listener's ear the answer ranges from Yes to No. Your best bet is probably to just do a direct translation with some kind of emotional meter at the top. Which, that said, some emotion via music doesn't need lyrics. Just listen to some traditional Irish keening and you'll see what I mean. There's tons of cultural music that just doesn't need a translation.

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Black

2,6051727

add a comment | 

up vote
0
down vote

up vote
0
down vote

Yes and No... So assuming you have a "musically inclined" translation AI there's no real problem.Lyrics can be twisted pretty hard before they're unacceptable, just see how many ways you can sing some rap without it sounding atrocious. If it's figuring out how to fit the new words into the song then there's no issue. However, you do lose a lot of original quality to the song. It can even go as far as missing intent like your example seems to stray towards. And there will usually be a gravitation of the original lyrics towards the beat of the song that your new lyrics, while keeping beat, might not necessarily have. You also have compact cultural reference, idioms, and metaphors that don't translate well and most of the time don't translate at all. I know you stated dodging that bullet for the most part. But for someone without the cultural references words can translate into a massive definition. And even then be incomplete.

As for the translation itself, even for someone fluent in just both languages and having communication with the original author the process... let's just say it's intense. You're not likely to get it perfect or even close with an AI. You're asking a computer to solve P=NP.

Of course assuming P=NP in your universe, you could do this to perfection. Whether perfection results in capturing all the qualities of the music is once again up for debate. But you could prove you did your best. Not that you need perfection if you want to toss P=NP. And a quantum AI has an entirely better shot at solving this problem without P=NP if you want to skirt the fanciful science.

So depending on how hard you want to twist science and your listener's ear the answer ranges from Yes to No. Your best bet is probably to just do a direct translation with some kind of emotional meter at the top. Which, that said, some emotion via music doesn't need lyrics. Just listen to some traditional Irish keening and you'll see what I mean. There's tons of cultural music that just doesn't need a translation.

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Black

2,6051727

Yes and No... So assuming you have a "musically inclined" translation AI there's no real problem.Lyrics can be twisted pretty hard before they're unacceptable, just see how many ways you can sing some rap without it sounding atrocious. If it's figuring out how to fit the new words into the song then there's no issue. However, you do lose a lot of original quality to the song. It can even go as far as missing intent like your example seems to stray towards. And there will usually be a gravitation of the original lyrics towards the beat of the song that your new lyrics, while keeping beat, might not necessarily have. You also have compact cultural reference, idioms, and metaphors that don't translate well and most of the time don't translate at all. I know you stated dodging that bullet for the most part. But for someone without the cultural references words can translate into a massive definition. And even then be incomplete.

As for the translation itself, even for someone fluent in just both languages and having communication with the original author the process... let's just say it's intense. You're not likely to get it perfect or even close with an AI. You're asking a computer to solve P=NP.

Of course assuming P=NP in your universe, you could do this to perfection. Whether perfection results in capturing all the qualities of the music is once again up for debate. But you could prove you did your best. Not that you need perfection if you want to toss P=NP. And a quantum AI has an entirely better shot at solving this problem without P=NP if you want to skirt the fanciful science.

So depending on how hard you want to twist science and your listener's ear the answer ranges from Yes to No. Your best bet is probably to just do a direct translation with some kind of emotional meter at the top. Which, that said, some emotion via music doesn't need lyrics. Just listen to some traditional Irish keening and you'll see what I mean. There's tons of cultural music that just doesn't need a translation.

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Black

2,6051727

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered 15 hours ago

Black

2,6051727

answered 15 hours ago

Black

2,6051727

answered 15 hours ago

Black

2,6051727

2,6051727

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