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How to make sure a job will match the job description?
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up vote
17
down vote
favorite
Wrongful hiring is the case where actual job turns out to be very
different than what you have applied to.
I have recently started my second job, leaving my first job after 7 months due to wrongful hiring. For my first job, I have applied for a DevOps position but I ended up doing front end web development. I had no experience nor desire in doing front end development yet I was doing it. I was never given any chance to demonstrate my DevOps knowledge, and yet my senior and manager was very sure that it was too early for me to switch to operations. I was also sitting idle until given a task. I was not allowed to grab one from the backlog nor work on or study something else. Mind that neither of them had any experience with DevOps before.
Fast forward, I applied to a DevOps position at a global company trusting the brand name. I got through a very technical interview where I was asked questions about vendor specific products used in DevOps and was hired immediately.
I must say I felt proud that even though I jumped the ship too early, I was able to get hold of a better position.
Now after two months into new job it is clear that my day to day duty has nothing to do with DevOps. I am hired for support work. Basically I am a customer relationship officer with knowledge of Docker.
My first company was a well known start-up at my country, and my current company is a well known global company. During my first job interview I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we already had 3 people doing those. So,
I did asked questions about my current position and made it clear why I am leaving my job when interviewing again. So hiring manager was well aware of my standpoint, yet he did not openly informed me that the position will be a support role rather than any dev or ops.
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to? How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing? How am I, as a new graduate/early career developer navigate through this "actual job turning out to be something very different" without it's being too late at weird positions ?
interviewing job-search job-description job-satisfaction
edited 6 mins ago
David K
21.2k1176111
asked 8 hours ago
oftencoffee
9215
New contributor
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
 |Â
show 8 more comments
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
Wrongful hiring is the case where actual job turns out to be very
different than what you have applied to.
I have recently started my second job, leaving my first job after 7 months due to wrongful hiring. For my first job, I have applied for a DevOps position but I ended up doing front end web development. I had no experience nor desire in doing front end development yet I was doing it. I was never given any chance to demonstrate my DevOps knowledge, and yet my senior and manager was very sure that it was too early for me to switch to operations. I was also sitting idle until given a task. I was not allowed to grab one from the backlog nor work on or study something else. Mind that neither of them had any experience with DevOps before.
Fast forward, I applied to a DevOps position at a global company trusting the brand name. I got through a very technical interview where I was asked questions about vendor specific products used in DevOps and was hired immediately.
I must say I felt proud that even though I jumped the ship too early, I was able to get hold of a better position.
Now after two months into new job it is clear that my day to day duty has nothing to do with DevOps. I am hired for support work. Basically I am a customer relationship officer with knowledge of Docker.
My first company was a well known start-up at my country, and my current company is a well known global company. During my first job interview I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we already had 3 people doing those. So,
I did asked questions about my current position and made it clear why I am leaving my job when interviewing again. So hiring manager was well aware of my standpoint, yet he did not openly informed me that the position will be a support role rather than any dev or ops.
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to? How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing? How am I, as a new graduate/early career developer navigate through this "actual job turning out to be something very different" without it's being too late at weird positions ?
interviewing job-search job-description job-satisfaction
edited 6 mins ago
David K
21.2k1176111
asked 8 hours ago
oftencoffee
9215
New contributor
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Possible duplicate of Finding out the project condition and company processes?
– gnat
7 hours ago
4
Related, but not duplicate: Actual work is different than expected - decision to be made
– David K
3 hours ago
12
Is there any official definition of "DevOps"? It seems to me all around everyone is thinking its a different thing, mostly along the line of "IT guy that can do all of it".
– PlasmaHH
3 hours ago
4
"How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?" Once your CV shows that you are a "butterfly" who flits from company to company at the slightest provocation, you might not get any more job changes, so the question becomes irrelevant. I would think very hard before hiring someone who spent only 7 months in their first job, and then only 2 months in their second.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
2
@nostalgk DevOps is completely unrelated to .NET. Engineers working on maintaining a Linux cluster are also DevOps.
– Konrad Rudolph
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 8 more comments
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
up vote
17
down vote
favorite
Wrongful hiring is the case where actual job turns out to be very
different than what you have applied to.
I have recently started my second job, leaving my first job after 7 months due to wrongful hiring. For my first job, I have applied for a DevOps position but I ended up doing front end web development. I had no experience nor desire in doing front end development yet I was doing it. I was never given any chance to demonstrate my DevOps knowledge, and yet my senior and manager was very sure that it was too early for me to switch to operations. I was also sitting idle until given a task. I was not allowed to grab one from the backlog nor work on or study something else. Mind that neither of them had any experience with DevOps before.
Fast forward, I applied to a DevOps position at a global company trusting the brand name. I got through a very technical interview where I was asked questions about vendor specific products used in DevOps and was hired immediately.
I must say I felt proud that even though I jumped the ship too early, I was able to get hold of a better position.
Now after two months into new job it is clear that my day to day duty has nothing to do with DevOps. I am hired for support work. Basically I am a customer relationship officer with knowledge of Docker.
My first company was a well known start-up at my country, and my current company is a well known global company. During my first job interview I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we already had 3 people doing those. So,
I did asked questions about my current position and made it clear why I am leaving my job when interviewing again. So hiring manager was well aware of my standpoint, yet he did not openly informed me that the position will be a support role rather than any dev or ops.
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to? How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing? How am I, as a new graduate/early career developer navigate through this "actual job turning out to be something very different" without it's being too late at weird positions ?
interviewing job-search job-description job-satisfaction
edited 6 mins ago
David K
21.2k1176111
asked 8 hours ago
oftencoffee
9215
New contributor
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Wrongful hiring is the case where actual job turns out to be very
different than what you have applied to.
I have recently started my second job, leaving my first job after 7 months due to wrongful hiring. For my first job, I have applied for a DevOps position but I ended up doing front end web development. I had no experience nor desire in doing front end development yet I was doing it. I was never given any chance to demonstrate my DevOps knowledge, and yet my senior and manager was very sure that it was too early for me to switch to operations. I was also sitting idle until given a task. I was not allowed to grab one from the backlog nor work on or study something else. Mind that neither of them had any experience with DevOps before.
Fast forward, I applied to a DevOps position at a global company trusting the brand name. I got through a very technical interview where I was asked questions about vendor specific products used in DevOps and was hired immediately.
I must say I felt proud that even though I jumped the ship too early, I was able to get hold of a better position.
Now after two months into new job it is clear that my day to day duty has nothing to do with DevOps. I am hired for support work. Basically I am a customer relationship officer with knowledge of Docker.
My first company was a well known start-up at my country, and my current company is a well known global company. During my first job interview I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we already had 3 people doing those. So,
I did asked questions about my current position and made it clear why I am leaving my job when interviewing again. So hiring manager was well aware of my standpoint, yet he did not openly informed me that the position will be a support role rather than any dev or ops.
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to? How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing? How am I, as a new graduate/early career developer navigate through this "actual job turning out to be something very different" without it's being too late at weird positions ?
interviewing job-search job-description job-satisfaction
interviewing job-search job-description job-satisfaction
edited 6 mins ago
David K
21.2k1176111
asked 8 hours ago
oftencoffee
9215
New contributor
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 6 mins ago
David K
21.2k1176111
asked 8 hours ago
oftencoffee
9215
New contributor
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 6 mins ago
David K
21.2k1176111
edited 6 mins ago
David K
21.2k1176111
edited 6 mins ago
David K
21.2k1176111
21.2k1176111
asked 8 hours ago
oftencoffee
9215
New contributor
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 8 hours ago
oftencoffee
9215
asked 8 hours ago
oftencoffee
9215
9215
New contributor
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
oftencoffee is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Possible duplicate of Finding out the project condition and company processes?
– gnat
7 hours ago
4
Related, but not duplicate: Actual work is different than expected - decision to be made
– David K
3 hours ago
12
Is there any official definition of "DevOps"? It seems to me all around everyone is thinking its a different thing, mostly along the line of "IT guy that can do all of it".
– PlasmaHH
3 hours ago
4
"How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?" Once your CV shows that you are a "butterfly" who flits from company to company at the slightest provocation, you might not get any more job changes, so the question becomes irrelevant. I would think very hard before hiring someone who spent only 7 months in their first job, and then only 2 months in their second.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
2
@nostalgk DevOps is completely unrelated to .NET. Engineers working on maintaining a Linux cluster are also DevOps.
– Konrad Rudolph
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 8 more comments
Possible duplicate of Finding out the project condition and company processes?
– gnat
7 hours ago
4
Related, but not duplicate: Actual work is different than expected - decision to be made
– David K
3 hours ago
12
Is there any official definition of "DevOps"? It seems to me all around everyone is thinking its a different thing, mostly along the line of "IT guy that can do all of it".
– PlasmaHH
3 hours ago
4
"How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?" Once your CV shows that you are a "butterfly" who flits from company to company at the slightest provocation, you might not get any more job changes, so the question becomes irrelevant. I would think very hard before hiring someone who spent only 7 months in their first job, and then only 2 months in their second.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
2
@nostalgk DevOps is completely unrelated to .NET. Engineers working on maintaining a Linux cluster are also DevOps.
– Konrad Rudolph
1 hour ago
Possible duplicate of Finding out the project condition and company processes?
– gnat
7 hours ago
Possible duplicate of Finding out the project condition and company processes?
– gnat
7 hours ago
4
4
Related, but not duplicate: Actual work is different than expected - decision to be made
– David K
3 hours ago
Related, but not duplicate: Actual work is different than expected - decision to be made
– David K
3 hours ago
12
12
Is there any official definition of "DevOps"? It seems to me all around everyone is thinking its a different thing, mostly along the line of "IT guy that can do all of it".
– PlasmaHH
3 hours ago
Is there any official definition of "DevOps"? It seems to me all around everyone is thinking its a different thing, mostly along the line of "IT guy that can do all of it".
– PlasmaHH
3 hours ago
4
4
"How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?" Once your CV shows that you are a "butterfly" who flits from company to company at the slightest provocation, you might not get any more job changes, so the question becomes irrelevant. I would think very hard before hiring someone who spent only 7 months in their first job, and then only 2 months in their second.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
"How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?" Once your CV shows that you are a "butterfly" who flits from company to company at the slightest provocation, you might not get any more job changes, so the question becomes irrelevant. I would think very hard before hiring someone who spent only 7 months in their first job, and then only 2 months in their second.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
2
2
@nostalgk DevOps is completely unrelated to .NET. Engineers working on maintaining a Linux cluster are also DevOps.
– Konrad Rudolph
1 hour ago
@nostalgk DevOps is completely unrelated to .NET. Engineers working on maintaining a Linux cluster are also DevOps.
– Konrad Rudolph
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 8 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
18
down vote
Ask open questions!
Often the employer has little clue about the meat and veg of a vacancy and their job is not to make you happy, the job is to sell a position. They are a car salesman and to these guys nothing is impossible, the car can do anything you like and that crack in the windshield is "just cosmetic, will buff right out".
So don't give them a way to bullshit their way out of a question. Don't ask "hey I'll be doing devops right?" but go for something like "so describe the things I'll be doing on an average day", see if you can get your potential direct supervisor to answer some questions, ask which tools you will be using most.
So hopefully you will be able to spot who are the bullshitters and who the people who actually know what they are talking about. It won't catch the outright lies but it'll get you halfway there.
answered 6 hours ago
Borgh
770211
1
This is very good advice. It can also be good advice from the opposite side. In the final interview at my current position the owner asked me to explain what I think I would be doing at the new job, to make sure we were on the same page.
– pipe
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
What can I trust?
Nothing is the short answer.
People will always make the job look more enticing than it actually is. That's part of recruitment in order to get good overqualified staff to do potentially an easier job. (on purpose or not it happens)
Since you are very early into your actual working career you need to develop experience in the fields that you may not want to in order to develop into the career you want.
You should also ask more questions to the interviewer when you are being interviewed. Interviews are a two way street for you to find out about the job and company whilst the employer can find about you.
Make sure you get all the information you need during this time (even then you may be lied to or the role may be disguised).
If it still happens you either confront your mentor/manager mentioning you weren't given the role you expected although you asked in the interview and was told to your face otherwise. Or you can leave, and carry on looking. That's just the life of looking for a job specific job.
answered 8 hours ago
Twyxz
4,07751847
At my old job not only I was doing something totally different but also I was sitting idle rest of the time and was not allowed to work or study on something else. So, waiting there was not a good option. I think I am failing at assessing the job during interviews. What kind of questions should I be asking?
– oftencoffee
8 hours ago
Whatever you want to find out. If you want to know the roles, Just ask again just to be sure what job roles will I be doing, what tasks etc etc is there any way to progress. Just things that you want to find out you need to be clear on
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
Well I did those and they said "Yeah" to most of them and things turn out to be just the opposite. Then what?
– oftencoffee
7 hours ago
3
Even where it's not deliberate, it can still happen. I've been in the position of being interviewed for a specific role working exclusively with framework A, getting the role, then finding out I'd be working with framework B (and then seeing multiple other devs go through the same thing) just because (mostly contract) devs working on framework B kept leaving during the hiring process and that project was the priority so they had to keep plugging the gap with their new hires, even if they weren't a perfect fit.
– delinear
7 hours ago
1
Then you confront them @oftencoffee Say I was told I'd being doing this and I'm not, I sit idle most the time and aren't allowed to self learn is there anything that can be done?
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to?
By "brand name", I'm assuming you're referring to the title of the position you applied for.
You should never trust just a title to mean what you expect, as you've learned. Many job titles are filtered through HR or other people who are not directly involved in the actual work that will be performed. Other times, titles are chosen to attract specific talent that may have desirable skills chosen to supplement roles more core to the position (e.g. "we want a support engineer, but we want one specifically who knows Docker").
You need to ask very specific questions, not only about the tools you expect to be using, but how they'll be used. Things like "will I be creating new containers tailored for each project, or do you have a template already defined that I will be deploying?", or "could you describe what your DevOps tool stack currently looks like, and how my role will interact with those tools? Do you anticipate changes to that stack that would involve my role?"
How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?
Honestly? Possibly a couple. It really depends on what you're looking to do, how hot that role is in your market, and how many other people are competing with you for that role. If you're lucky, and talented, and interview well, you may get right into what you want to do. If not, I don't think its unusual to work your way towards a better fit through 2 or 3 positions that aren't really what you want you want to do.
I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time
and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end
team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my
DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we
already had 3 people doing those.
If you're asked if you're willing to do some development from time to time, at the very least you should ask what languages and frameworks you'll be using.
answered 2 hours ago
Beofett
1,95821523
I think OP meant the global companies brand name, could be wrong but otherwise +1
– Twyxz
2 hours ago
@Twyxz That was my second guess. If that's what the OP meant, though, then I'd say the bigger the brand name, the less you trust them.
– Beofett
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
18
down vote
Ask open questions!
Often the employer has little clue about the meat and veg of a vacancy and their job is not to make you happy, the job is to sell a position. They are a car salesman and to these guys nothing is impossible, the car can do anything you like and that crack in the windshield is "just cosmetic, will buff right out".
So don't give them a way to bullshit their way out of a question. Don't ask "hey I'll be doing devops right?" but go for something like "so describe the things I'll be doing on an average day", see if you can get your potential direct supervisor to answer some questions, ask which tools you will be using most.
So hopefully you will be able to spot who are the bullshitters and who the people who actually know what they are talking about. It won't catch the outright lies but it'll get you halfway there.
answered 6 hours ago
Borgh
770211
1
This is very good advice. It can also be good advice from the opposite side. In the final interview at my current position the owner asked me to explain what I think I would be doing at the new job, to make sure we were on the same page.
– pipe
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
18
down vote
Ask open questions!
Often the employer has little clue about the meat and veg of a vacancy and their job is not to make you happy, the job is to sell a position. They are a car salesman and to these guys nothing is impossible, the car can do anything you like and that crack in the windshield is "just cosmetic, will buff right out".
So don't give them a way to bullshit their way out of a question. Don't ask "hey I'll be doing devops right?" but go for something like "so describe the things I'll be doing on an average day", see if you can get your potential direct supervisor to answer some questions, ask which tools you will be using most.
So hopefully you will be able to spot who are the bullshitters and who the people who actually know what they are talking about. It won't catch the outright lies but it'll get you halfway there.
answered 6 hours ago
Borgh
770211
1
This is very good advice. It can also be good advice from the opposite side. In the final interview at my current position the owner asked me to explain what I think I would be doing at the new job, to make sure we were on the same page.
– pipe
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
18
down vote
up vote
18
down vote
Ask open questions!
Often the employer has little clue about the meat and veg of a vacancy and their job is not to make you happy, the job is to sell a position. They are a car salesman and to these guys nothing is impossible, the car can do anything you like and that crack in the windshield is "just cosmetic, will buff right out".
So don't give them a way to bullshit their way out of a question. Don't ask "hey I'll be doing devops right?" but go for something like "so describe the things I'll be doing on an average day", see if you can get your potential direct supervisor to answer some questions, ask which tools you will be using most.
So hopefully you will be able to spot who are the bullshitters and who the people who actually know what they are talking about. It won't catch the outright lies but it'll get you halfway there.
answered 6 hours ago
Borgh
770211
Ask open questions!
Often the employer has little clue about the meat and veg of a vacancy and their job is not to make you happy, the job is to sell a position. They are a car salesman and to these guys nothing is impossible, the car can do anything you like and that crack in the windshield is "just cosmetic, will buff right out".
So don't give them a way to bullshit their way out of a question. Don't ask "hey I'll be doing devops right?" but go for something like "so describe the things I'll be doing on an average day", see if you can get your potential direct supervisor to answer some questions, ask which tools you will be using most.
So hopefully you will be able to spot who are the bullshitters and who the people who actually know what they are talking about. It won't catch the outright lies but it'll get you halfway there.
answered 6 hours ago
Borgh
770211
edited 6 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
Borgh
770211
answered 6 hours ago
Borgh
770211
answered 6 hours ago
Borgh
770211
770211
1
This is very good advice. It can also be good advice from the opposite side. In the final interview at my current position the owner asked me to explain what I think I would be doing at the new job, to make sure we were on the same page.
– pipe
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1
This is very good advice. It can also be good advice from the opposite side. In the final interview at my current position the owner asked me to explain what I think I would be doing at the new job, to make sure we were on the same page.
– pipe
1 hour ago
1
1
This is very good advice. It can also be good advice from the opposite side. In the final interview at my current position the owner asked me to explain what I think I would be doing at the new job, to make sure we were on the same page.
– pipe
1 hour ago
This is very good advice. It can also be good advice from the opposite side. In the final interview at my current position the owner asked me to explain what I think I would be doing at the new job, to make sure we were on the same page.
– pipe
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
What can I trust?
Nothing is the short answer.
People will always make the job look more enticing than it actually is. That's part of recruitment in order to get good overqualified staff to do potentially an easier job. (on purpose or not it happens)
Since you are very early into your actual working career you need to develop experience in the fields that you may not want to in order to develop into the career you want.
You should also ask more questions to the interviewer when you are being interviewed. Interviews are a two way street for you to find out about the job and company whilst the employer can find about you.
Make sure you get all the information you need during this time (even then you may be lied to or the role may be disguised).
If it still happens you either confront your mentor/manager mentioning you weren't given the role you expected although you asked in the interview and was told to your face otherwise. Or you can leave, and carry on looking. That's just the life of looking for a job specific job.
answered 8 hours ago
Twyxz
4,07751847
At my old job not only I was doing something totally different but also I was sitting idle rest of the time and was not allowed to work or study on something else. So, waiting there was not a good option. I think I am failing at assessing the job during interviews. What kind of questions should I be asking?
– oftencoffee
8 hours ago
Whatever you want to find out. If you want to know the roles, Just ask again just to be sure what job roles will I be doing, what tasks etc etc is there any way to progress. Just things that you want to find out you need to be clear on
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
Well I did those and they said "Yeah" to most of them and things turn out to be just the opposite. Then what?
– oftencoffee
7 hours ago
3
Even where it's not deliberate, it can still happen. I've been in the position of being interviewed for a specific role working exclusively with framework A, getting the role, then finding out I'd be working with framework B (and then seeing multiple other devs go through the same thing) just because (mostly contract) devs working on framework B kept leaving during the hiring process and that project was the priority so they had to keep plugging the gap with their new hires, even if they weren't a perfect fit.
– delinear
7 hours ago
1
Then you confront them @oftencoffee Say I was told I'd being doing this and I'm not, I sit idle most the time and aren't allowed to self learn is there anything that can be done?
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
15
down vote
What can I trust?
Nothing is the short answer.
People will always make the job look more enticing than it actually is. That's part of recruitment in order to get good overqualified staff to do potentially an easier job. (on purpose or not it happens)
Since you are very early into your actual working career you need to develop experience in the fields that you may not want to in order to develop into the career you want.
You should also ask more questions to the interviewer when you are being interviewed. Interviews are a two way street for you to find out about the job and company whilst the employer can find about you.
Make sure you get all the information you need during this time (even then you may be lied to or the role may be disguised).
If it still happens you either confront your mentor/manager mentioning you weren't given the role you expected although you asked in the interview and was told to your face otherwise. Or you can leave, and carry on looking. That's just the life of looking for a job specific job.
answered 8 hours ago
Twyxz
4,07751847
At my old job not only I was doing something totally different but also I was sitting idle rest of the time and was not allowed to work or study on something else. So, waiting there was not a good option. I think I am failing at assessing the job during interviews. What kind of questions should I be asking?
– oftencoffee
8 hours ago
Whatever you want to find out. If you want to know the roles, Just ask again just to be sure what job roles will I be doing, what tasks etc etc is there any way to progress. Just things that you want to find out you need to be clear on
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
Well I did those and they said "Yeah" to most of them and things turn out to be just the opposite. Then what?
– oftencoffee
7 hours ago
3
Even where it's not deliberate, it can still happen. I've been in the position of being interviewed for a specific role working exclusively with framework A, getting the role, then finding out I'd be working with framework B (and then seeing multiple other devs go through the same thing) just because (mostly contract) devs working on framework B kept leaving during the hiring process and that project was the priority so they had to keep plugging the gap with their new hires, even if they weren't a perfect fit.
– delinear
7 hours ago
1
Then you confront them @oftencoffee Say I was told I'd being doing this and I'm not, I sit idle most the time and aren't allowed to self learn is there anything that can be done?
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
15
down vote
up vote
15
down vote
What can I trust?
Nothing is the short answer.
People will always make the job look more enticing than it actually is. That's part of recruitment in order to get good overqualified staff to do potentially an easier job. (on purpose or not it happens)
Since you are very early into your actual working career you need to develop experience in the fields that you may not want to in order to develop into the career you want.
You should also ask more questions to the interviewer when you are being interviewed. Interviews are a two way street for you to find out about the job and company whilst the employer can find about you.
Make sure you get all the information you need during this time (even then you may be lied to or the role may be disguised).
If it still happens you either confront your mentor/manager mentioning you weren't given the role you expected although you asked in the interview and was told to your face otherwise. Or you can leave, and carry on looking. That's just the life of looking for a job specific job.
answered 8 hours ago
Twyxz
4,07751847
What can I trust?
Nothing is the short answer.
People will always make the job look more enticing than it actually is. That's part of recruitment in order to get good overqualified staff to do potentially an easier job. (on purpose or not it happens)
Since you are very early into your actual working career you need to develop experience in the fields that you may not want to in order to develop into the career you want.
You should also ask more questions to the interviewer when you are being interviewed. Interviews are a two way street for you to find out about the job and company whilst the employer can find about you.
Make sure you get all the information you need during this time (even then you may be lied to or the role may be disguised).
If it still happens you either confront your mentor/manager mentioning you weren't given the role you expected although you asked in the interview and was told to your face otherwise. Or you can leave, and carry on looking. That's just the life of looking for a job specific job.
answered 8 hours ago
Twyxz
4,07751847
edited 7 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
Twyxz
4,07751847
answered 8 hours ago
Twyxz
4,07751847
answered 8 hours ago
Twyxz
4,07751847
4,07751847
At my old job not only I was doing something totally different but also I was sitting idle rest of the time and was not allowed to work or study on something else. So, waiting there was not a good option. I think I am failing at assessing the job during interviews. What kind of questions should I be asking?
– oftencoffee
8 hours ago
Whatever you want to find out. If you want to know the roles, Just ask again just to be sure what job roles will I be doing, what tasks etc etc is there any way to progress. Just things that you want to find out you need to be clear on
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
Well I did those and they said "Yeah" to most of them and things turn out to be just the opposite. Then what?
– oftencoffee
7 hours ago
3
Even where it's not deliberate, it can still happen. I've been in the position of being interviewed for a specific role working exclusively with framework A, getting the role, then finding out I'd be working with framework B (and then seeing multiple other devs go through the same thing) just because (mostly contract) devs working on framework B kept leaving during the hiring process and that project was the priority so they had to keep plugging the gap with their new hires, even if they weren't a perfect fit.
– delinear
7 hours ago
1
Then you confront them @oftencoffee Say I was told I'd being doing this and I'm not, I sit idle most the time and aren't allowed to self learn is there anything that can be done?
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
At my old job not only I was doing something totally different but also I was sitting idle rest of the time and was not allowed to work or study on something else. So, waiting there was not a good option. I think I am failing at assessing the job during interviews. What kind of questions should I be asking?
– oftencoffee
8 hours ago
Whatever you want to find out. If you want to know the roles, Just ask again just to be sure what job roles will I be doing, what tasks etc etc is there any way to progress. Just things that you want to find out you need to be clear on
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
Well I did those and they said "Yeah" to most of them and things turn out to be just the opposite. Then what?
– oftencoffee
7 hours ago
3
Even where it's not deliberate, it can still happen. I've been in the position of being interviewed for a specific role working exclusively with framework A, getting the role, then finding out I'd be working with framework B (and then seeing multiple other devs go through the same thing) just because (mostly contract) devs working on framework B kept leaving during the hiring process and that project was the priority so they had to keep plugging the gap with their new hires, even if they weren't a perfect fit.
– delinear
7 hours ago
1
Then you confront them @oftencoffee Say I was told I'd being doing this and I'm not, I sit idle most the time and aren't allowed to self learn is there anything that can be done?
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
At my old job not only I was doing something totally different but also I was sitting idle rest of the time and was not allowed to work or study on something else. So, waiting there was not a good option. I think I am failing at assessing the job during interviews. What kind of questions should I be asking?
– oftencoffee
8 hours ago
At my old job not only I was doing something totally different but also I was sitting idle rest of the time and was not allowed to work or study on something else. So, waiting there was not a good option. I think I am failing at assessing the job during interviews. What kind of questions should I be asking?
– oftencoffee
8 hours ago
Whatever you want to find out. If you want to know the roles, Just ask again just to be sure what job roles will I be doing, what tasks etc etc is there any way to progress. Just things that you want to find out you need to be clear on
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
Whatever you want to find out. If you want to know the roles, Just ask again just to be sure what job roles will I be doing, what tasks etc etc is there any way to progress. Just things that you want to find out you need to be clear on
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
Well I did those and they said "Yeah" to most of them and things turn out to be just the opposite. Then what?
– oftencoffee
7 hours ago
Well I did those and they said "Yeah" to most of them and things turn out to be just the opposite. Then what?
– oftencoffee
7 hours ago
3
3
Even where it's not deliberate, it can still happen. I've been in the position of being interviewed for a specific role working exclusively with framework A, getting the role, then finding out I'd be working with framework B (and then seeing multiple other devs go through the same thing) just because (mostly contract) devs working on framework B kept leaving during the hiring process and that project was the priority so they had to keep plugging the gap with their new hires, even if they weren't a perfect fit.
– delinear
7 hours ago
Even where it's not deliberate, it can still happen. I've been in the position of being interviewed for a specific role working exclusively with framework A, getting the role, then finding out I'd be working with framework B (and then seeing multiple other devs go through the same thing) just because (mostly contract) devs working on framework B kept leaving during the hiring process and that project was the priority so they had to keep plugging the gap with their new hires, even if they weren't a perfect fit.
– delinear
7 hours ago
1
1
Then you confront them @oftencoffee Say I was told I'd being doing this and I'm not, I sit idle most the time and aren't allowed to self learn is there anything that can be done?
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
Then you confront them @oftencoffee Say I was told I'd being doing this and I'm not, I sit idle most the time and aren't allowed to self learn is there anything that can be done?
– Twyxz
7 hours ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to?
By "brand name", I'm assuming you're referring to the title of the position you applied for.
You should never trust just a title to mean what you expect, as you've learned. Many job titles are filtered through HR or other people who are not directly involved in the actual work that will be performed. Other times, titles are chosen to attract specific talent that may have desirable skills chosen to supplement roles more core to the position (e.g. "we want a support engineer, but we want one specifically who knows Docker").
You need to ask very specific questions, not only about the tools you expect to be using, but how they'll be used. Things like "will I be creating new containers tailored for each project, or do you have a template already defined that I will be deploying?", or "could you describe what your DevOps tool stack currently looks like, and how my role will interact with those tools? Do you anticipate changes to that stack that would involve my role?"
How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?
Honestly? Possibly a couple. It really depends on what you're looking to do, how hot that role is in your market, and how many other people are competing with you for that role. If you're lucky, and talented, and interview well, you may get right into what you want to do. If not, I don't think its unusual to work your way towards a better fit through 2 or 3 positions that aren't really what you want you want to do.
I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time
and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end
team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my
DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we
already had 3 people doing those.
If you're asked if you're willing to do some development from time to time, at the very least you should ask what languages and frameworks you'll be using.
answered 2 hours ago
Beofett
1,95821523
I think OP meant the global companies brand name, could be wrong but otherwise +1
– Twyxz
2 hours ago
@Twyxz That was my second guess. If that's what the OP meant, though, then I'd say the bigger the brand name, the less you trust them.
– Beofett
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to?
By "brand name", I'm assuming you're referring to the title of the position you applied for.
You should never trust just a title to mean what you expect, as you've learned. Many job titles are filtered through HR or other people who are not directly involved in the actual work that will be performed. Other times, titles are chosen to attract specific talent that may have desirable skills chosen to supplement roles more core to the position (e.g. "we want a support engineer, but we want one specifically who knows Docker").
You need to ask very specific questions, not only about the tools you expect to be using, but how they'll be used. Things like "will I be creating new containers tailored for each project, or do you have a template already defined that I will be deploying?", or "could you describe what your DevOps tool stack currently looks like, and how my role will interact with those tools? Do you anticipate changes to that stack that would involve my role?"
How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?
Honestly? Possibly a couple. It really depends on what you're looking to do, how hot that role is in your market, and how many other people are competing with you for that role. If you're lucky, and talented, and interview well, you may get right into what you want to do. If not, I don't think its unusual to work your way towards a better fit through 2 or 3 positions that aren't really what you want you want to do.
I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time
and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end
team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my
DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we
already had 3 people doing those.
If you're asked if you're willing to do some development from time to time, at the very least you should ask what languages and frameworks you'll be using.
answered 2 hours ago
Beofett
1,95821523
I think OP meant the global companies brand name, could be wrong but otherwise +1
– Twyxz
2 hours ago
@Twyxz That was my second guess. If that's what the OP meant, though, then I'd say the bigger the brand name, the less you trust them.
– Beofett
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to?
By "brand name", I'm assuming you're referring to the title of the position you applied for.
You should never trust just a title to mean what you expect, as you've learned. Many job titles are filtered through HR or other people who are not directly involved in the actual work that will be performed. Other times, titles are chosen to attract specific talent that may have desirable skills chosen to supplement roles more core to the position (e.g. "we want a support engineer, but we want one specifically who knows Docker").
You need to ask very specific questions, not only about the tools you expect to be using, but how they'll be used. Things like "will I be creating new containers tailored for each project, or do you have a template already defined that I will be deploying?", or "could you describe what your DevOps tool stack currently looks like, and how my role will interact with those tools? Do you anticipate changes to that stack that would involve my role?"
How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?
Honestly? Possibly a couple. It really depends on what you're looking to do, how hot that role is in your market, and how many other people are competing with you for that role. If you're lucky, and talented, and interview well, you may get right into what you want to do. If not, I don't think its unusual to work your way towards a better fit through 2 or 3 positions that aren't really what you want you want to do.
I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time
and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end
team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my
DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we
already had 3 people doing those.
If you're asked if you're willing to do some development from time to time, at the very least you should ask what languages and frameworks you'll be using.
answered 2 hours ago
Beofett
1,95821523
My question is, if I cannot trust the brand name what/who can I trust to?
By "brand name", I'm assuming you're referring to the title of the position you applied for.
You should never trust just a title to mean what you expect, as you've learned. Many job titles are filtered through HR or other people who are not directly involved in the actual work that will be performed. Other times, titles are chosen to attract specific talent that may have desirable skills chosen to supplement roles more core to the position (e.g. "we want a support engineer, but we want one specifically who knows Docker").
You need to ask very specific questions, not only about the tools you expect to be using, but how they'll be used. Things like "will I be creating new containers tailored for each project, or do you have a template already defined that I will be deploying?", or "could you describe what your DevOps tool stack currently looks like, and how my role will interact with those tools? Do you anticipate changes to that stack that would involve my role?"
How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?
Honestly? Possibly a couple. It really depends on what you're looking to do, how hot that role is in your market, and how many other people are competing with you for that role. If you're lucky, and talented, and interview well, you may get right into what you want to do. If not, I don't think its unusual to work your way towards a better fit through 2 or 3 positions that aren't really what you want you want to do.
I was asked whether I am willing to do some development time to time
and I said yes to it thinking that since I am hired for the back end
team, I'll work in developing API's and what not in addition to my
DevOps duties. I was not expecting front end development given that we
already had 3 people doing those.
If you're asked if you're willing to do some development from time to time, at the very least you should ask what languages and frameworks you'll be using.
answered 2 hours ago
Beofett
1,95821523
answered 2 hours ago
Beofett
1,95821523
answered 2 hours ago
Beofett
1,95821523
answered 2 hours ago
Beofett
1,95821523
1,95821523
I think OP meant the global companies brand name, could be wrong but otherwise +1
– Twyxz
2 hours ago
@Twyxz That was my second guess. If that's what the OP meant, though, then I'd say the bigger the brand name, the less you trust them.
– Beofett
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
I think OP meant the global companies brand name, could be wrong but otherwise +1
– Twyxz
2 hours ago
@Twyxz That was my second guess. If that's what the OP meant, though, then I'd say the bigger the brand name, the less you trust them.
– Beofett
2 hours ago
I think OP meant the global companies brand name, could be wrong but otherwise +1
– Twyxz
2 hours ago
I think OP meant the global companies brand name, could be wrong but otherwise +1
– Twyxz
2 hours ago
@Twyxz That was my second guess. If that's what the OP meant, though, then I'd say the bigger the brand name, the less you trust them.
– Beofett
2 hours ago
@Twyxz That was my second guess. If that's what the OP meant, though, then I'd say the bigger the brand name, the less you trust them.
– Beofett
2 hours ago
add a comment |Â
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Possible duplicate of Finding out the project condition and company processes?
– gnat
7 hours ago
4
Related, but not duplicate: Actual work is different than expected - decision to be made
– David K
3 hours ago
12
Is there any official definition of "DevOps"? It seems to me all around everyone is thinking its a different thing, mostly along the line of "IT guy that can do all of it".
– PlasmaHH
3 hours ago
4
"How many job changes does it take to land the actual position doing the actual thing?" Once your CV shows that you are a "butterfly" who flits from company to company at the slightest provocation, you might not get any more job changes, so the question becomes irrelevant. I would think very hard before hiring someone who spent only 7 months in their first job, and then only 2 months in their second.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
2
@nostalgk DevOps is completely unrelated to .NET. Engineers working on maintaining a Linux cluster are also DevOps.
– Konrad Rudolph
1 hour ago