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Can sustainable farming be done in the suburbs in this supernatural post-apocalyptic scenario?
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So, here's my situation: my first book revolves around an unknown entity giving modern day humanity an assortment of supernatural powers. Every week a new power is given to everyone on Earth over the age of 13, and they can hold up to 6 at a time. Once they hit 6, they choose which of the ones they have will be replaced by the next week's power. In addition, everyone has a few permanent powers that don't count towards this 6 power limit and cannot be removed.
By the end of the first book, a full year of humans getting powers society can't handle humans having, combined with a few powers seemingly intentionally designed to destroy the world's infrastructure, have knocked the world down to the tech level of your average zombie apocalypse. The entire world's infrastructure (power lines, phone lines, internet, water treatment, etc) is now in ruins due to a previous power, and any attempt to fix it is pointless because now one of the permanent powers that everyone over the age of 13 has is the ability to temporarily disable any technology they want to as long as it's in their line of sight. Which also means that they can't even rely on most modern means of transportation. For more information on how this anti-technology power works, see here. But stated simply, people can still use modern technology if they can get the fuel or electricity to power them, but if anyone who's looking at it wants to, they can temporarily make it useless with just a thought.
That's the bad news. The good news is that everyone over the age of 13, male and female, has the strength of two men, is four times as durable, is immune to disease and aging, and can heal from any injury that doesn't kill them in a week at the longest, all with no added calorie intake except for regrowing lost tissue (these are the permanent powers I mentioned earlier).
So here we come to the main issue: rather than the usual post-apocalyptic plot of the main characters making a pilgrimage to the ultra-rural countryside and hoping to find a place where they can grow food, I want the main character's small suburban hometown to turn into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state run by a local billionaire who, for his own reasons, stockpiled the necessary supplies to make the town self-sufficient enough to feed and defend themselves.
Is that possible? Is there enough land in the average small suburban town that, if given the tools, seeds and other supplies, people with the powers described above could grow enough food to support the town's pre-collapse population? And if not, what is the fundamental obstacle they'd face which I'd need to create a power to compensate for?
reality-check magic survival agriculture urban-fantasy
asked 3 hours ago
Jason Clyde
954521
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
So, here's my situation: my first book revolves around an unknown entity giving modern day humanity an assortment of supernatural powers. Every week a new power is given to everyone on Earth over the age of 13, and they can hold up to 6 at a time. Once they hit 6, they choose which of the ones they have will be replaced by the next week's power. In addition, everyone has a few permanent powers that don't count towards this 6 power limit and cannot be removed.
By the end of the first book, a full year of humans getting powers society can't handle humans having, combined with a few powers seemingly intentionally designed to destroy the world's infrastructure, have knocked the world down to the tech level of your average zombie apocalypse. The entire world's infrastructure (power lines, phone lines, internet, water treatment, etc) is now in ruins due to a previous power, and any attempt to fix it is pointless because now one of the permanent powers that everyone over the age of 13 has is the ability to temporarily disable any technology they want to as long as it's in their line of sight. Which also means that they can't even rely on most modern means of transportation. For more information on how this anti-technology power works, see here. But stated simply, people can still use modern technology if they can get the fuel or electricity to power them, but if anyone who's looking at it wants to, they can temporarily make it useless with just a thought.
That's the bad news. The good news is that everyone over the age of 13, male and female, has the strength of two men, is four times as durable, is immune to disease and aging, and can heal from any injury that doesn't kill them in a week at the longest, all with no added calorie intake except for regrowing lost tissue (these are the permanent powers I mentioned earlier).
So here we come to the main issue: rather than the usual post-apocalyptic plot of the main characters making a pilgrimage to the ultra-rural countryside and hoping to find a place where they can grow food, I want the main character's small suburban hometown to turn into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state run by a local billionaire who, for his own reasons, stockpiled the necessary supplies to make the town self-sufficient enough to feed and defend themselves.
Is that possible? Is there enough land in the average small suburban town that, if given the tools, seeds and other supplies, people with the powers described above could grow enough food to support the town's pre-collapse population? And if not, what is the fundamental obstacle they'd face which I'd need to create a power to compensate for?
reality-check magic survival agriculture urban-fantasy
asked 3 hours ago
Jason Clyde
954521
Have not read question yet, but + for conjunction of "supernatural", "post-apocalyptic" and "suburbs".
– Willk
3 hours ago
1
The phrase "technology not working at all" is highly ambiguous, and needs clarification.
– RonJohn
2 hours ago
@RohnJohn wouldn’t that be needless clutter to the question though? It’s a background detail and no longer in effect by this point in the plot. All that matters to the situation in the question is that the infrastructure is down, not how that happened.
– Jason Clyde
2 hours ago
What is your definition of technology here? Computers? Any electronics? Hammers and axes are technology too.
– John Locke
2 hours ago
1
Water supply is going to be a bigger issue than farmland, if it will grow grass it can conceivably be farmed, but most suburbs are not equipped to supply water without electric pumps. Location is going to matter a lot, many large cities are in temperate climates.
– John
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
So, here's my situation: my first book revolves around an unknown entity giving modern day humanity an assortment of supernatural powers. Every week a new power is given to everyone on Earth over the age of 13, and they can hold up to 6 at a time. Once they hit 6, they choose which of the ones they have will be replaced by the next week's power. In addition, everyone has a few permanent powers that don't count towards this 6 power limit and cannot be removed.
By the end of the first book, a full year of humans getting powers society can't handle humans having, combined with a few powers seemingly intentionally designed to destroy the world's infrastructure, have knocked the world down to the tech level of your average zombie apocalypse. The entire world's infrastructure (power lines, phone lines, internet, water treatment, etc) is now in ruins due to a previous power, and any attempt to fix it is pointless because now one of the permanent powers that everyone over the age of 13 has is the ability to temporarily disable any technology they want to as long as it's in their line of sight. Which also means that they can't even rely on most modern means of transportation. For more information on how this anti-technology power works, see here. But stated simply, people can still use modern technology if they can get the fuel or electricity to power them, but if anyone who's looking at it wants to, they can temporarily make it useless with just a thought.
That's the bad news. The good news is that everyone over the age of 13, male and female, has the strength of two men, is four times as durable, is immune to disease and aging, and can heal from any injury that doesn't kill them in a week at the longest, all with no added calorie intake except for regrowing lost tissue (these are the permanent powers I mentioned earlier).
So here we come to the main issue: rather than the usual post-apocalyptic plot of the main characters making a pilgrimage to the ultra-rural countryside and hoping to find a place where they can grow food, I want the main character's small suburban hometown to turn into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state run by a local billionaire who, for his own reasons, stockpiled the necessary supplies to make the town self-sufficient enough to feed and defend themselves.
Is that possible? Is there enough land in the average small suburban town that, if given the tools, seeds and other supplies, people with the powers described above could grow enough food to support the town's pre-collapse population? And if not, what is the fundamental obstacle they'd face which I'd need to create a power to compensate for?
reality-check magic survival agriculture urban-fantasy
asked 3 hours ago
Jason Clyde
954521
So, here's my situation: my first book revolves around an unknown entity giving modern day humanity an assortment of supernatural powers. Every week a new power is given to everyone on Earth over the age of 13, and they can hold up to 6 at a time. Once they hit 6, they choose which of the ones they have will be replaced by the next week's power. In addition, everyone has a few permanent powers that don't count towards this 6 power limit and cannot be removed.
By the end of the first book, a full year of humans getting powers society can't handle humans having, combined with a few powers seemingly intentionally designed to destroy the world's infrastructure, have knocked the world down to the tech level of your average zombie apocalypse. The entire world's infrastructure (power lines, phone lines, internet, water treatment, etc) is now in ruins due to a previous power, and any attempt to fix it is pointless because now one of the permanent powers that everyone over the age of 13 has is the ability to temporarily disable any technology they want to as long as it's in their line of sight. Which also means that they can't even rely on most modern means of transportation. For more information on how this anti-technology power works, see here. But stated simply, people can still use modern technology if they can get the fuel or electricity to power them, but if anyone who's looking at it wants to, they can temporarily make it useless with just a thought.
That's the bad news. The good news is that everyone over the age of 13, male and female, has the strength of two men, is four times as durable, is immune to disease and aging, and can heal from any injury that doesn't kill them in a week at the longest, all with no added calorie intake except for regrowing lost tissue (these are the permanent powers I mentioned earlier).
So here we come to the main issue: rather than the usual post-apocalyptic plot of the main characters making a pilgrimage to the ultra-rural countryside and hoping to find a place where they can grow food, I want the main character's small suburban hometown to turn into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state run by a local billionaire who, for his own reasons, stockpiled the necessary supplies to make the town self-sufficient enough to feed and defend themselves.
Is that possible? Is there enough land in the average small suburban town that, if given the tools, seeds and other supplies, people with the powers described above could grow enough food to support the town's pre-collapse population? And if not, what is the fundamental obstacle they'd face which I'd need to create a power to compensate for?
reality-check magic survival agriculture urban-fantasy
reality-check magic survival agriculture urban-fantasy
asked 3 hours ago
Jason Clyde
954521
asked 3 hours ago
Jason Clyde
954521
edited 39 mins ago
asked 3 hours ago
Jason Clyde
954521
asked 3 hours ago
Jason Clyde
954521
asked 3 hours ago
Jason Clyde
954521
954521
Have not read question yet, but + for conjunction of "supernatural", "post-apocalyptic" and "suburbs".
– Willk
3 hours ago
1
The phrase "technology not working at all" is highly ambiguous, and needs clarification.
– RonJohn
2 hours ago
@RohnJohn wouldn’t that be needless clutter to the question though? It’s a background detail and no longer in effect by this point in the plot. All that matters to the situation in the question is that the infrastructure is down, not how that happened.
– Jason Clyde
2 hours ago
What is your definition of technology here? Computers? Any electronics? Hammers and axes are technology too.
– John Locke
2 hours ago
1
Water supply is going to be a bigger issue than farmland, if it will grow grass it can conceivably be farmed, but most suburbs are not equipped to supply water without electric pumps. Location is going to matter a lot, many large cities are in temperate climates.
– John
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
Have not read question yet, but + for conjunction of "supernatural", "post-apocalyptic" and "suburbs".
– Willk
3 hours ago
1
The phrase "technology not working at all" is highly ambiguous, and needs clarification.
– RonJohn
2 hours ago
@RohnJohn wouldn’t that be needless clutter to the question though? It’s a background detail and no longer in effect by this point in the plot. All that matters to the situation in the question is that the infrastructure is down, not how that happened.
– Jason Clyde
2 hours ago
What is your definition of technology here? Computers? Any electronics? Hammers and axes are technology too.
– John Locke
2 hours ago
1
Water supply is going to be a bigger issue than farmland, if it will grow grass it can conceivably be farmed, but most suburbs are not equipped to supply water without electric pumps. Location is going to matter a lot, many large cities are in temperate climates.
– John
1 hour ago
Have not read question yet, but + for conjunction of "supernatural", "post-apocalyptic" and "suburbs".
– Willk
3 hours ago
Have not read question yet, but + for conjunction of "supernatural", "post-apocalyptic" and "suburbs".
– Willk
3 hours ago
1
1
The phrase "technology not working at all" is highly ambiguous, and needs clarification.
– RonJohn
2 hours ago
The phrase "technology not working at all" is highly ambiguous, and needs clarification.
– RonJohn
2 hours ago
@RohnJohn wouldn’t that be needless clutter to the question though? It’s a background detail and no longer in effect by this point in the plot. All that matters to the situation in the question is that the infrastructure is down, not how that happened.
– Jason Clyde
2 hours ago
@RohnJohn wouldn’t that be needless clutter to the question though? It’s a background detail and no longer in effect by this point in the plot. All that matters to the situation in the question is that the infrastructure is down, not how that happened.
– Jason Clyde
2 hours ago
What is your definition of technology here? Computers? Any electronics? Hammers and axes are technology too.
– John Locke
2 hours ago
What is your definition of technology here? Computers? Any electronics? Hammers and axes are technology too.
– John Locke
2 hours ago
1
1
Water supply is going to be a bigger issue than farmland, if it will grow grass it can conceivably be farmed, but most suburbs are not equipped to supply water without electric pumps. Location is going to matter a lot, many large cities are in temperate climates.
– John
1 hour ago
Water supply is going to be a bigger issue than farmland, if it will grow grass it can conceivably be farmed, but most suburbs are not equipped to supply water without electric pumps. Location is going to matter a lot, many large cities are in temperate climates.
– John
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
You might be able to make a loving farming in the suburbs, but that will be very difficult and impractical for the following reasons.
Existing infrastructure
problems: farming, water, planting
I assume there are still houses and roads in the suburbs, as well as (no longer useful) power lines and water lines. In order to do any useful amount of farming, you are going to need a large area of land. To get that land, you will have to tear down houses and pull up roads. Even the foundations of the houses have to be destroyed in order for the crops to take up roots. All of the rubble left over has to be cleared. Even if your super humans are up to the task, it could take weeks or months to clear a large enough space for farming.
Water
With no electricity and a bunch of living EMPs walking around, the water supply will no doubt be unavailable. If you live in a climate with good rainfall and have drought-resistant crops, food production should be fine. You might have to construct irrigation ditches, which super humans will be able to do. Humans, however, cannot grow roots [citation needed], so you need a way to get water. Modern wells use electricity, but a well with a bucket, a clean stream, or a natural spring will suffice.
Planting
Farming will be super labor-intensive. You don't have planters and harvesters because they don't work anymore, so farming will have to be done by hand or by plow. People will spend most of their time farming, and even though they will be super strong and won't need any extra food, there will be a lot of people and land area limited by point 1, so the agriculture there will be intensive subsistence agriculture.
Alternatives
Even though you could technically farm in the suburbs, it is very impractical. I fail to see why your people wouldn't just move to the farmlands and farm there. Everything is already set up for farming- there are wells (powered by electric pumps, but that can be fixed), livestock, prepared farmland, stockpiles of fertilizer, plenty of seeds, and large land areas. The only thing that would stop people from the classic fleeing to farmland routine is making the move or farming cost-preventative. Either it is too difficult to get there, or the land is ill-suited to growing crops. The key isn't to make suburban farming easier, it's to make rural farming harder.
If your people can't go to the farmland, another good idea is scavenging. Here is what my routine will be for an apocalypse occurs that does not have zombies (if there are zombies, I'll go to rural areas.) When the power goes down, walk to your local supermarket and eat all of the ice cream and frozen foods. Once those are spoiled, eat the fruits and any meat that hasn't gone bad yet. Next to go are the deli items like cheese and preserved meats. Finally, when those are rotten, you eat the canned goods and packaged food like chips, soup, cookies, and peanut butter. Using this strategy, you have food for at least 10 years, which is when some of the aluminum cans will lose integrity and the contents will mold. If you ever run out of the food type you are eating, just walk to another grocery store. After 10 years, some of the cans will still be intact, and hopefully large game (and small game too) will have moved into the area which you can hunt.
Given all of these reasons, you need some good explanation for why farming in rural areas is impossible and neither is scavenging.
answered 1 hour ago
John Locke
1,088116
Thanks for the advice. The reason I wanna have them survive in the suburbs is because I like the suburbs as a setting, and like the concept of a quiet suburban town suddenly turned into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state. The farming technology they could still use as long as they kept anyone away who'd want to sabotage it, so it looks like the main issue I need to work out is water.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
Really? It seems to me that the buildings and roads in the way will be a problem. Do you have a way to deal with that?
– John Locke
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde Just remembered the superpowers, you could probably solve all of these problems with them. Someone can control weather, someone else can make plants grow, and another person has the ability to turn into a bulldozer or a wrecking ball.
– John Locke
1 hour ago
Yeah, ultimately if I put the right power into the picture I could make the undertaking trivial, but ideally I want to keep the powers from being useful enough that survival becomes trivial, so I want to avoid "powers will fix it" intervention unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Sorry I forgot about that part of your answer with the roads and houses, I got distracted when writing that. So the answer is there isn't nearly enough grass and unused land to do the job? Maybe the population will have to drop in the chaos before the billionaire steps in with his solution.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde I cannot find any information about how large late neolithic farms were or how many people they could support, so I don't know.
– John Locke
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
A suburban city; probably not
This basically boils down to a population density metric.
First, how much land does it take to support each person? This questions is addressed here. This answer (to that question) shows that the for the US, 10 acres of farmland feed every person, while worldwide 2.2 acres is sufficient.
Lets say with a mostly vegetarian diet, but land use practices that allow for some land to not be in cultivation (trees, houses, creekbeds etc), we can feed our population on 2.5 acres per person, which is 100 people per square kilometer.
What is the density of your suburb? Most suburbs are significantly higher than this. A populous, built up suburb like Arlington, VA is obviously not going to work, with a population density of 3500 people per km$^2$. A big, old suburb like Aurora, IL will not work either, with a population of 1730 people per km$^3$.
A suburban county; yes!
Better than an older suburb might be to consider a younger suburban county. Here are some examples of counties in the US that would fit the bill:
- Walton County, GA (88,000 people; 45 miles from Atlanta)
- Johnson County, TX (168,000 people; 25 miles from Fort Worth)
- Fairfield County, OH (146,000 people; 25 miles from Columbus, OH)
answered 1 hour ago
kingledion
65.3k22208363
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
You might be able to make a loving farming in the suburbs, but that will be very difficult and impractical for the following reasons.
Existing infrastructure
problems: farming, water, planting
I assume there are still houses and roads in the suburbs, as well as (no longer useful) power lines and water lines. In order to do any useful amount of farming, you are going to need a large area of land. To get that land, you will have to tear down houses and pull up roads. Even the foundations of the houses have to be destroyed in order for the crops to take up roots. All of the rubble left over has to be cleared. Even if your super humans are up to the task, it could take weeks or months to clear a large enough space for farming.
Water
With no electricity and a bunch of living EMPs walking around, the water supply will no doubt be unavailable. If you live in a climate with good rainfall and have drought-resistant crops, food production should be fine. You might have to construct irrigation ditches, which super humans will be able to do. Humans, however, cannot grow roots [citation needed], so you need a way to get water. Modern wells use electricity, but a well with a bucket, a clean stream, or a natural spring will suffice.
Planting
Farming will be super labor-intensive. You don't have planters and harvesters because they don't work anymore, so farming will have to be done by hand or by plow. People will spend most of their time farming, and even though they will be super strong and won't need any extra food, there will be a lot of people and land area limited by point 1, so the agriculture there will be intensive subsistence agriculture.
Alternatives
Even though you could technically farm in the suburbs, it is very impractical. I fail to see why your people wouldn't just move to the farmlands and farm there. Everything is already set up for farming- there are wells (powered by electric pumps, but that can be fixed), livestock, prepared farmland, stockpiles of fertilizer, plenty of seeds, and large land areas. The only thing that would stop people from the classic fleeing to farmland routine is making the move or farming cost-preventative. Either it is too difficult to get there, or the land is ill-suited to growing crops. The key isn't to make suburban farming easier, it's to make rural farming harder.
If your people can't go to the farmland, another good idea is scavenging. Here is what my routine will be for an apocalypse occurs that does not have zombies (if there are zombies, I'll go to rural areas.) When the power goes down, walk to your local supermarket and eat all of the ice cream and frozen foods. Once those are spoiled, eat the fruits and any meat that hasn't gone bad yet. Next to go are the deli items like cheese and preserved meats. Finally, when those are rotten, you eat the canned goods and packaged food like chips, soup, cookies, and peanut butter. Using this strategy, you have food for at least 10 years, which is when some of the aluminum cans will lose integrity and the contents will mold. If you ever run out of the food type you are eating, just walk to another grocery store. After 10 years, some of the cans will still be intact, and hopefully large game (and small game too) will have moved into the area which you can hunt.
Given all of these reasons, you need some good explanation for why farming in rural areas is impossible and neither is scavenging.
answered 1 hour ago
John Locke
1,088116
Thanks for the advice. The reason I wanna have them survive in the suburbs is because I like the suburbs as a setting, and like the concept of a quiet suburban town suddenly turned into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state. The farming technology they could still use as long as they kept anyone away who'd want to sabotage it, so it looks like the main issue I need to work out is water.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
Really? It seems to me that the buildings and roads in the way will be a problem. Do you have a way to deal with that?
– John Locke
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde Just remembered the superpowers, you could probably solve all of these problems with them. Someone can control weather, someone else can make plants grow, and another person has the ability to turn into a bulldozer or a wrecking ball.
– John Locke
1 hour ago
Yeah, ultimately if I put the right power into the picture I could make the undertaking trivial, but ideally I want to keep the powers from being useful enough that survival becomes trivial, so I want to avoid "powers will fix it" intervention unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Sorry I forgot about that part of your answer with the roads and houses, I got distracted when writing that. So the answer is there isn't nearly enough grass and unused land to do the job? Maybe the population will have to drop in the chaos before the billionaire steps in with his solution.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde I cannot find any information about how large late neolithic farms were or how many people they could support, so I don't know.
– John Locke
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
You might be able to make a loving farming in the suburbs, but that will be very difficult and impractical for the following reasons.
Existing infrastructure
problems: farming, water, planting
I assume there are still houses and roads in the suburbs, as well as (no longer useful) power lines and water lines. In order to do any useful amount of farming, you are going to need a large area of land. To get that land, you will have to tear down houses and pull up roads. Even the foundations of the houses have to be destroyed in order for the crops to take up roots. All of the rubble left over has to be cleared. Even if your super humans are up to the task, it could take weeks or months to clear a large enough space for farming.
Water
With no electricity and a bunch of living EMPs walking around, the water supply will no doubt be unavailable. If you live in a climate with good rainfall and have drought-resistant crops, food production should be fine. You might have to construct irrigation ditches, which super humans will be able to do. Humans, however, cannot grow roots [citation needed], so you need a way to get water. Modern wells use electricity, but a well with a bucket, a clean stream, or a natural spring will suffice.
Planting
Farming will be super labor-intensive. You don't have planters and harvesters because they don't work anymore, so farming will have to be done by hand or by plow. People will spend most of their time farming, and even though they will be super strong and won't need any extra food, there will be a lot of people and land area limited by point 1, so the agriculture there will be intensive subsistence agriculture.
Alternatives
Even though you could technically farm in the suburbs, it is very impractical. I fail to see why your people wouldn't just move to the farmlands and farm there. Everything is already set up for farming- there are wells (powered by electric pumps, but that can be fixed), livestock, prepared farmland, stockpiles of fertilizer, plenty of seeds, and large land areas. The only thing that would stop people from the classic fleeing to farmland routine is making the move or farming cost-preventative. Either it is too difficult to get there, or the land is ill-suited to growing crops. The key isn't to make suburban farming easier, it's to make rural farming harder.
If your people can't go to the farmland, another good idea is scavenging. Here is what my routine will be for an apocalypse occurs that does not have zombies (if there are zombies, I'll go to rural areas.) When the power goes down, walk to your local supermarket and eat all of the ice cream and frozen foods. Once those are spoiled, eat the fruits and any meat that hasn't gone bad yet. Next to go are the deli items like cheese and preserved meats. Finally, when those are rotten, you eat the canned goods and packaged food like chips, soup, cookies, and peanut butter. Using this strategy, you have food for at least 10 years, which is when some of the aluminum cans will lose integrity and the contents will mold. If you ever run out of the food type you are eating, just walk to another grocery store. After 10 years, some of the cans will still be intact, and hopefully large game (and small game too) will have moved into the area which you can hunt.
Given all of these reasons, you need some good explanation for why farming in rural areas is impossible and neither is scavenging.
answered 1 hour ago
John Locke
1,088116
Thanks for the advice. The reason I wanna have them survive in the suburbs is because I like the suburbs as a setting, and like the concept of a quiet suburban town suddenly turned into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state. The farming technology they could still use as long as they kept anyone away who'd want to sabotage it, so it looks like the main issue I need to work out is water.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
Really? It seems to me that the buildings and roads in the way will be a problem. Do you have a way to deal with that?
– John Locke
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde Just remembered the superpowers, you could probably solve all of these problems with them. Someone can control weather, someone else can make plants grow, and another person has the ability to turn into a bulldozer or a wrecking ball.
– John Locke
1 hour ago
Yeah, ultimately if I put the right power into the picture I could make the undertaking trivial, but ideally I want to keep the powers from being useful enough that survival becomes trivial, so I want to avoid "powers will fix it" intervention unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Sorry I forgot about that part of your answer with the roads and houses, I got distracted when writing that. So the answer is there isn't nearly enough grass and unused land to do the job? Maybe the population will have to drop in the chaos before the billionaire steps in with his solution.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde I cannot find any information about how large late neolithic farms were or how many people they could support, so I don't know.
– John Locke
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
You might be able to make a loving farming in the suburbs, but that will be very difficult and impractical for the following reasons.
Existing infrastructure
problems: farming, water, planting
I assume there are still houses and roads in the suburbs, as well as (no longer useful) power lines and water lines. In order to do any useful amount of farming, you are going to need a large area of land. To get that land, you will have to tear down houses and pull up roads. Even the foundations of the houses have to be destroyed in order for the crops to take up roots. All of the rubble left over has to be cleared. Even if your super humans are up to the task, it could take weeks or months to clear a large enough space for farming.
Water
With no electricity and a bunch of living EMPs walking around, the water supply will no doubt be unavailable. If you live in a climate with good rainfall and have drought-resistant crops, food production should be fine. You might have to construct irrigation ditches, which super humans will be able to do. Humans, however, cannot grow roots [citation needed], so you need a way to get water. Modern wells use electricity, but a well with a bucket, a clean stream, or a natural spring will suffice.
Planting
Farming will be super labor-intensive. You don't have planters and harvesters because they don't work anymore, so farming will have to be done by hand or by plow. People will spend most of their time farming, and even though they will be super strong and won't need any extra food, there will be a lot of people and land area limited by point 1, so the agriculture there will be intensive subsistence agriculture.
Alternatives
Even though you could technically farm in the suburbs, it is very impractical. I fail to see why your people wouldn't just move to the farmlands and farm there. Everything is already set up for farming- there are wells (powered by electric pumps, but that can be fixed), livestock, prepared farmland, stockpiles of fertilizer, plenty of seeds, and large land areas. The only thing that would stop people from the classic fleeing to farmland routine is making the move or farming cost-preventative. Either it is too difficult to get there, or the land is ill-suited to growing crops. The key isn't to make suburban farming easier, it's to make rural farming harder.
If your people can't go to the farmland, another good idea is scavenging. Here is what my routine will be for an apocalypse occurs that does not have zombies (if there are zombies, I'll go to rural areas.) When the power goes down, walk to your local supermarket and eat all of the ice cream and frozen foods. Once those are spoiled, eat the fruits and any meat that hasn't gone bad yet. Next to go are the deli items like cheese and preserved meats. Finally, when those are rotten, you eat the canned goods and packaged food like chips, soup, cookies, and peanut butter. Using this strategy, you have food for at least 10 years, which is when some of the aluminum cans will lose integrity and the contents will mold. If you ever run out of the food type you are eating, just walk to another grocery store. After 10 years, some of the cans will still be intact, and hopefully large game (and small game too) will have moved into the area which you can hunt.
Given all of these reasons, you need some good explanation for why farming in rural areas is impossible and neither is scavenging.
answered 1 hour ago
John Locke
1,088116
You might be able to make a loving farming in the suburbs, but that will be very difficult and impractical for the following reasons.
Existing infrastructure
problems: farming, water, planting
I assume there are still houses and roads in the suburbs, as well as (no longer useful) power lines and water lines. In order to do any useful amount of farming, you are going to need a large area of land. To get that land, you will have to tear down houses and pull up roads. Even the foundations of the houses have to be destroyed in order for the crops to take up roots. All of the rubble left over has to be cleared. Even if your super humans are up to the task, it could take weeks or months to clear a large enough space for farming.
Water
With no electricity and a bunch of living EMPs walking around, the water supply will no doubt be unavailable. If you live in a climate with good rainfall and have drought-resistant crops, food production should be fine. You might have to construct irrigation ditches, which super humans will be able to do. Humans, however, cannot grow roots [citation needed], so you need a way to get water. Modern wells use electricity, but a well with a bucket, a clean stream, or a natural spring will suffice.
Planting
Farming will be super labor-intensive. You don't have planters and harvesters because they don't work anymore, so farming will have to be done by hand or by plow. People will spend most of their time farming, and even though they will be super strong and won't need any extra food, there will be a lot of people and land area limited by point 1, so the agriculture there will be intensive subsistence agriculture.
Alternatives
Even though you could technically farm in the suburbs, it is very impractical. I fail to see why your people wouldn't just move to the farmlands and farm there. Everything is already set up for farming- there are wells (powered by electric pumps, but that can be fixed), livestock, prepared farmland, stockpiles of fertilizer, plenty of seeds, and large land areas. The only thing that would stop people from the classic fleeing to farmland routine is making the move or farming cost-preventative. Either it is too difficult to get there, or the land is ill-suited to growing crops. The key isn't to make suburban farming easier, it's to make rural farming harder.
If your people can't go to the farmland, another good idea is scavenging. Here is what my routine will be for an apocalypse occurs that does not have zombies (if there are zombies, I'll go to rural areas.) When the power goes down, walk to your local supermarket and eat all of the ice cream and frozen foods. Once those are spoiled, eat the fruits and any meat that hasn't gone bad yet. Next to go are the deli items like cheese and preserved meats. Finally, when those are rotten, you eat the canned goods and packaged food like chips, soup, cookies, and peanut butter. Using this strategy, you have food for at least 10 years, which is when some of the aluminum cans will lose integrity and the contents will mold. If you ever run out of the food type you are eating, just walk to another grocery store. After 10 years, some of the cans will still be intact, and hopefully large game (and small game too) will have moved into the area which you can hunt.
Given all of these reasons, you need some good explanation for why farming in rural areas is impossible and neither is scavenging.
answered 1 hour ago
John Locke
1,088116
answered 1 hour ago
John Locke
1,088116
answered 1 hour ago
John Locke
1,088116
answered 1 hour ago
John Locke
1,088116
1,088116
Thanks for the advice. The reason I wanna have them survive in the suburbs is because I like the suburbs as a setting, and like the concept of a quiet suburban town suddenly turned into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state. The farming technology they could still use as long as they kept anyone away who'd want to sabotage it, so it looks like the main issue I need to work out is water.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
Really? It seems to me that the buildings and roads in the way will be a problem. Do you have a way to deal with that?
– John Locke
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde Just remembered the superpowers, you could probably solve all of these problems with them. Someone can control weather, someone else can make plants grow, and another person has the ability to turn into a bulldozer or a wrecking ball.
– John Locke
1 hour ago
Yeah, ultimately if I put the right power into the picture I could make the undertaking trivial, but ideally I want to keep the powers from being useful enough that survival becomes trivial, so I want to avoid "powers will fix it" intervention unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Sorry I forgot about that part of your answer with the roads and houses, I got distracted when writing that. So the answer is there isn't nearly enough grass and unused land to do the job? Maybe the population will have to drop in the chaos before the billionaire steps in with his solution.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde I cannot find any information about how large late neolithic farms were or how many people they could support, so I don't know.
– John Locke
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Thanks for the advice. The reason I wanna have them survive in the suburbs is because I like the suburbs as a setting, and like the concept of a quiet suburban town suddenly turned into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state. The farming technology they could still use as long as they kept anyone away who'd want to sabotage it, so it looks like the main issue I need to work out is water.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
Really? It seems to me that the buildings and roads in the way will be a problem. Do you have a way to deal with that?
– John Locke
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde Just remembered the superpowers, you could probably solve all of these problems with them. Someone can control weather, someone else can make plants grow, and another person has the ability to turn into a bulldozer or a wrecking ball.
– John Locke
1 hour ago
Yeah, ultimately if I put the right power into the picture I could make the undertaking trivial, but ideally I want to keep the powers from being useful enough that survival becomes trivial, so I want to avoid "powers will fix it" intervention unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Sorry I forgot about that part of your answer with the roads and houses, I got distracted when writing that. So the answer is there isn't nearly enough grass and unused land to do the job? Maybe the population will have to drop in the chaos before the billionaire steps in with his solution.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde I cannot find any information about how large late neolithic farms were or how many people they could support, so I don't know.
– John Locke
46 mins ago
Thanks for the advice. The reason I wanna have them survive in the suburbs is because I like the suburbs as a setting, and like the concept of a quiet suburban town suddenly turned into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state. The farming technology they could still use as long as they kept anyone away who'd want to sabotage it, so it looks like the main issue I need to work out is water.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
Thanks for the advice. The reason I wanna have them survive in the suburbs is because I like the suburbs as a setting, and like the concept of a quiet suburban town suddenly turned into a sort of post-apocalyptic city-state. The farming technology they could still use as long as they kept anyone away who'd want to sabotage it, so it looks like the main issue I need to work out is water.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
Really? It seems to me that the buildings and roads in the way will be a problem. Do you have a way to deal with that?
– John Locke
1 hour ago
Really? It seems to me that the buildings and roads in the way will be a problem. Do you have a way to deal with that?
– John Locke
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde Just remembered the superpowers, you could probably solve all of these problems with them. Someone can control weather, someone else can make plants grow, and another person has the ability to turn into a bulldozer or a wrecking ball.
– John Locke
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde Just remembered the superpowers, you could probably solve all of these problems with them. Someone can control weather, someone else can make plants grow, and another person has the ability to turn into a bulldozer or a wrecking ball.
– John Locke
1 hour ago
Yeah, ultimately if I put the right power into the picture I could make the undertaking trivial, but ideally I want to keep the powers from being useful enough that survival becomes trivial, so I want to avoid "powers will fix it" intervention unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Sorry I forgot about that part of your answer with the roads and houses, I got distracted when writing that. So the answer is there isn't nearly enough grass and unused land to do the job? Maybe the population will have to drop in the chaos before the billionaire steps in with his solution.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
Yeah, ultimately if I put the right power into the picture I could make the undertaking trivial, but ideally I want to keep the powers from being useful enough that survival becomes trivial, so I want to avoid "powers will fix it" intervention unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Sorry I forgot about that part of your answer with the roads and houses, I got distracted when writing that. So the answer is there isn't nearly enough grass and unused land to do the job? Maybe the population will have to drop in the chaos before the billionaire steps in with his solution.
– Jason Clyde
1 hour ago
@JasonClyde I cannot find any information about how large late neolithic farms were or how many people they could support, so I don't know.
– John Locke
46 mins ago
@JasonClyde I cannot find any information about how large late neolithic farms were or how many people they could support, so I don't know.
– John Locke
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
A suburban city; probably not
This basically boils down to a population density metric.
First, how much land does it take to support each person? This questions is addressed here. This answer (to that question) shows that the for the US, 10 acres of farmland feed every person, while worldwide 2.2 acres is sufficient.
Lets say with a mostly vegetarian diet, but land use practices that allow for some land to not be in cultivation (trees, houses, creekbeds etc), we can feed our population on 2.5 acres per person, which is 100 people per square kilometer.
What is the density of your suburb? Most suburbs are significantly higher than this. A populous, built up suburb like Arlington, VA is obviously not going to work, with a population density of 3500 people per km$^2$. A big, old suburb like Aurora, IL will not work either, with a population of 1730 people per km$^3$.
A suburban county; yes!
Better than an older suburb might be to consider a younger suburban county. Here are some examples of counties in the US that would fit the bill:
- Walton County, GA (88,000 people; 45 miles from Atlanta)
- Johnson County, TX (168,000 people; 25 miles from Fort Worth)
- Fairfield County, OH (146,000 people; 25 miles from Columbus, OH)
answered 1 hour ago
kingledion
65.3k22208363
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
A suburban city; probably not
This basically boils down to a population density metric.
First, how much land does it take to support each person? This questions is addressed here. This answer (to that question) shows that the for the US, 10 acres of farmland feed every person, while worldwide 2.2 acres is sufficient.
Lets say with a mostly vegetarian diet, but land use practices that allow for some land to not be in cultivation (trees, houses, creekbeds etc), we can feed our population on 2.5 acres per person, which is 100 people per square kilometer.
What is the density of your suburb? Most suburbs are significantly higher than this. A populous, built up suburb like Arlington, VA is obviously not going to work, with a population density of 3500 people per km$^2$. A big, old suburb like Aurora, IL will not work either, with a population of 1730 people per km$^3$.
A suburban county; yes!
Better than an older suburb might be to consider a younger suburban county. Here are some examples of counties in the US that would fit the bill:
- Walton County, GA (88,000 people; 45 miles from Atlanta)
- Johnson County, TX (168,000 people; 25 miles from Fort Worth)
- Fairfield County, OH (146,000 people; 25 miles from Columbus, OH)
answered 1 hour ago
kingledion
65.3k22208363
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
A suburban city; probably not
This basically boils down to a population density metric.
First, how much land does it take to support each person? This questions is addressed here. This answer (to that question) shows that the for the US, 10 acres of farmland feed every person, while worldwide 2.2 acres is sufficient.
Lets say with a mostly vegetarian diet, but land use practices that allow for some land to not be in cultivation (trees, houses, creekbeds etc), we can feed our population on 2.5 acres per person, which is 100 people per square kilometer.
What is the density of your suburb? Most suburbs are significantly higher than this. A populous, built up suburb like Arlington, VA is obviously not going to work, with a population density of 3500 people per km$^2$. A big, old suburb like Aurora, IL will not work either, with a population of 1730 people per km$^3$.
A suburban county; yes!
Better than an older suburb might be to consider a younger suburban county. Here are some examples of counties in the US that would fit the bill:
- Walton County, GA (88,000 people; 45 miles from Atlanta)
- Johnson County, TX (168,000 people; 25 miles from Fort Worth)
- Fairfield County, OH (146,000 people; 25 miles from Columbus, OH)
answered 1 hour ago
kingledion
65.3k22208363
A suburban city; probably not
This basically boils down to a population density metric.
First, how much land does it take to support each person? This questions is addressed here. This answer (to that question) shows that the for the US, 10 acres of farmland feed every person, while worldwide 2.2 acres is sufficient.
Lets say with a mostly vegetarian diet, but land use practices that allow for some land to not be in cultivation (trees, houses, creekbeds etc), we can feed our population on 2.5 acres per person, which is 100 people per square kilometer.
What is the density of your suburb? Most suburbs are significantly higher than this. A populous, built up suburb like Arlington, VA is obviously not going to work, with a population density of 3500 people per km$^2$. A big, old suburb like Aurora, IL will not work either, with a population of 1730 people per km$^3$.
A suburban county; yes!
Better than an older suburb might be to consider a younger suburban county. Here are some examples of counties in the US that would fit the bill:
- Walton County, GA (88,000 people; 45 miles from Atlanta)
- Johnson County, TX (168,000 people; 25 miles from Fort Worth)
- Fairfield County, OH (146,000 people; 25 miles from Columbus, OH)
answered 1 hour ago
kingledion
65.3k22208363
answered 1 hour ago
kingledion
65.3k22208363
answered 1 hour ago
kingledion
65.3k22208363
answered 1 hour ago
kingledion
65.3k22208363
65.3k22208363
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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Have not read question yet, but + for conjunction of "supernatural", "post-apocalyptic" and "suburbs".
– Willk
3 hours ago
1
The phrase "technology not working at all" is highly ambiguous, and needs clarification.
– RonJohn
2 hours ago
@RohnJohn wouldn’t that be needless clutter to the question though? It’s a background detail and no longer in effect by this point in the plot. All that matters to the situation in the question is that the infrastructure is down, not how that happened.
– Jason Clyde
2 hours ago
What is your definition of technology here? Computers? Any electronics? Hammers and axes are technology too.
– John Locke
2 hours ago
1
Water supply is going to be a bigger issue than farmland, if it will grow grass it can conceivably be farmed, but most suburbs are not equipped to supply water without electric pumps. Location is going to matter a lot, many large cities are in temperate climates.
– John
1 hour ago