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Is there a single historic event which could be changed to cause the USA to use SI units?
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I am time traveller with aim to make world better. Last time I went to the past, all I heard was: "Kill Hitler!"
So I went to the past and I must tell you, April 1945 was pretty loud in Berlin!
After I returned back, telling everyone that I shot Hitler to the head on 30th April 1945, all I heard was: "You did not do any preparation? Seriously?!"
So this time (pun intended), I want USA to be switching to SI Units. Why? Because I hate Fahrenheits. I hate hearing "Its just 20 miles away" without knowing how far it actually is. So, I decided to travel to the past and changing USA measurement system to lovely Celsius's and kilometers.
However, I am not sure, if I can do it in single-event trip. Thats why I am asking this question:
Can you make USA to use International system of units in single-event scenario?
- Must be single-event scenario. My machine has energy left just for one return trip
- Must be caused by external action or non-action (e.g. forcing someone not to do X)
- Must result by United States of America using officially SI Units.
- Since some may say that US already defines measurements based on SI units, I care more about "commoners" than for official definitions.
- You may assume I am able to convince up to ten people (if group meeting needs to be done)
- You may assume no one will think that I am time traveller (I will wear proper clothing and talk proper language, including its pronunciation)
- Assume I can stay up to one month in past, before I need to return back.
- I want to return back. Therefore I do not want to do anything involving risking my life (examples: Helping to fight off someone or jumping front of the person to stop killing bullet)
- I do not care about historical consequences. As long as there will be state recognized as USA, placed somewhere in current USA-area and it will be having people using "normal" units, is all I care about.
- No, I will not tell you how my time machine works and if it has any flaws.
reality-check alternate-history time-travel
edited 1 hour ago
Ash
23k462136
asked 1 hour ago
Pavel Janicek
27k19120198
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I am time traveller with aim to make world better. Last time I went to the past, all I heard was: "Kill Hitler!"
So I went to the past and I must tell you, April 1945 was pretty loud in Berlin!
After I returned back, telling everyone that I shot Hitler to the head on 30th April 1945, all I heard was: "You did not do any preparation? Seriously?!"
So this time (pun intended), I want USA to be switching to SI Units. Why? Because I hate Fahrenheits. I hate hearing "Its just 20 miles away" without knowing how far it actually is. So, I decided to travel to the past and changing USA measurement system to lovely Celsius's and kilometers.
However, I am not sure, if I can do it in single-event trip. Thats why I am asking this question:
Can you make USA to use International system of units in single-event scenario?
- Must be single-event scenario. My machine has energy left just for one return trip
- Must be caused by external action or non-action (e.g. forcing someone not to do X)
- Must result by United States of America using officially SI Units.
- Since some may say that US already defines measurements based on SI units, I care more about "commoners" than for official definitions.
- You may assume I am able to convince up to ten people (if group meeting needs to be done)
- You may assume no one will think that I am time traveller (I will wear proper clothing and talk proper language, including its pronunciation)
- Assume I can stay up to one month in past, before I need to return back.
- I want to return back. Therefore I do not want to do anything involving risking my life (examples: Helping to fight off someone or jumping front of the person to stop killing bullet)
- I do not care about historical consequences. As long as there will be state recognized as USA, placed somewhere in current USA-area and it will be having people using "normal" units, is all I care about.
- No, I will not tell you how my time machine works and if it has any flaws.
reality-check alternate-history time-travel
edited 1 hour ago
Ash
23k462136
asked 1 hour ago
Pavel Janicek
27k19120198
The U.S. of A. actually does use SI units. It's just that for their own reasons Americans prefer to use weird multiples. For example, an inch is by definition 25.4 millimeters, exactly; a pound is by definition 453.59237 grams, exactly; a fluid ounce is by definition 29.5735295625 milliliters, exactly. Why they use those strange numbers instead of powers of ten is anybody's guess. Note that in science and engineering Americans use the normal power of ten multiples of SI units. And a Fahrehneit degree is by definition 5/9 of a kelvin, with the triple point of water marked 32° F.
– AlexP
1 hour ago
I have the feeling that a solution may be found somewhere in the French intervention in the War of Independence but I don't actually know enough about american history to formulate a complete answer.
– Ash
1 hour ago
1
It's most likely about the parent countries, so you need Britain to lose a war at a convenient moment. The trouble with that is you'll end up with the US using SI, but also speaking French.
– Separatrix
1 hour ago
@Separatrix as I said. As long as commoners use "normal" measurements and country name remains "United States of America", I do not care...
– Pavel Janicek
1 hour ago
1
@AlexP, it's not a guess, we're stubborn. Very stubborn. We like our pizza hot (sometimes) and our beer cold (sometimes) and football (our kind) on Sunday (unless it's Monday). We're confused by the letter "M" following a number and don't like to feel anything less than entirely in control (whether we are or aren't, usually the latter). We're remarkably good at ignoring the fact that 90% of our American-made cars... aren't. We're consistently inconsistent and like it that way - especially when it comes to our politics. It makes perfect sense why we don't use the metric system. Right?
– JBH
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I am time traveller with aim to make world better. Last time I went to the past, all I heard was: "Kill Hitler!"
So I went to the past and I must tell you, April 1945 was pretty loud in Berlin!
After I returned back, telling everyone that I shot Hitler to the head on 30th April 1945, all I heard was: "You did not do any preparation? Seriously?!"
So this time (pun intended), I want USA to be switching to SI Units. Why? Because I hate Fahrenheits. I hate hearing "Its just 20 miles away" without knowing how far it actually is. So, I decided to travel to the past and changing USA measurement system to lovely Celsius's and kilometers.
However, I am not sure, if I can do it in single-event trip. Thats why I am asking this question:
Can you make USA to use International system of units in single-event scenario?
- Must be single-event scenario. My machine has energy left just for one return trip
- Must be caused by external action or non-action (e.g. forcing someone not to do X)
- Must result by United States of America using officially SI Units.
- Since some may say that US already defines measurements based on SI units, I care more about "commoners" than for official definitions.
- You may assume I am able to convince up to ten people (if group meeting needs to be done)
- You may assume no one will think that I am time traveller (I will wear proper clothing and talk proper language, including its pronunciation)
- Assume I can stay up to one month in past, before I need to return back.
- I want to return back. Therefore I do not want to do anything involving risking my life (examples: Helping to fight off someone or jumping front of the person to stop killing bullet)
- I do not care about historical consequences. As long as there will be state recognized as USA, placed somewhere in current USA-area and it will be having people using "normal" units, is all I care about.
- No, I will not tell you how my time machine works and if it has any flaws.
reality-check alternate-history time-travel
edited 1 hour ago
Ash
23k462136
asked 1 hour ago
Pavel Janicek
27k19120198
I am time traveller with aim to make world better. Last time I went to the past, all I heard was: "Kill Hitler!"
So I went to the past and I must tell you, April 1945 was pretty loud in Berlin!
After I returned back, telling everyone that I shot Hitler to the head on 30th April 1945, all I heard was: "You did not do any preparation? Seriously?!"
So this time (pun intended), I want USA to be switching to SI Units. Why? Because I hate Fahrenheits. I hate hearing "Its just 20 miles away" without knowing how far it actually is. So, I decided to travel to the past and changing USA measurement system to lovely Celsius's and kilometers.
However, I am not sure, if I can do it in single-event trip. Thats why I am asking this question:
Can you make USA to use International system of units in single-event scenario?
- Must be single-event scenario. My machine has energy left just for one return trip
- Must be caused by external action or non-action (e.g. forcing someone not to do X)
- Must result by United States of America using officially SI Units.
- Since some may say that US already defines measurements based on SI units, I care more about "commoners" than for official definitions.
- You may assume I am able to convince up to ten people (if group meeting needs to be done)
- You may assume no one will think that I am time traveller (I will wear proper clothing and talk proper language, including its pronunciation)
- Assume I can stay up to one month in past, before I need to return back.
- I want to return back. Therefore I do not want to do anything involving risking my life (examples: Helping to fight off someone or jumping front of the person to stop killing bullet)
- I do not care about historical consequences. As long as there will be state recognized as USA, placed somewhere in current USA-area and it will be having people using "normal" units, is all I care about.
- No, I will not tell you how my time machine works and if it has any flaws.
reality-check alternate-history time-travel
reality-check alternate-history time-travel
edited 1 hour ago
Ash
23k462136
asked 1 hour ago
Pavel Janicek
27k19120198
edited 1 hour ago
Ash
23k462136
asked 1 hour ago
Pavel Janicek
27k19120198
edited 1 hour ago
Ash
23k462136
edited 1 hour ago
Ash
23k462136
edited 1 hour ago
Ash
23k462136
23k462136
asked 1 hour ago
Pavel Janicek
27k19120198
asked 1 hour ago
Pavel Janicek
27k19120198
asked 1 hour ago
Pavel Janicek
27k19120198
27k19120198
The U.S. of A. actually does use SI units. It's just that for their own reasons Americans prefer to use weird multiples. For example, an inch is by definition 25.4 millimeters, exactly; a pound is by definition 453.59237 grams, exactly; a fluid ounce is by definition 29.5735295625 milliliters, exactly. Why they use those strange numbers instead of powers of ten is anybody's guess. Note that in science and engineering Americans use the normal power of ten multiples of SI units. And a Fahrehneit degree is by definition 5/9 of a kelvin, with the triple point of water marked 32° F.
– AlexP
1 hour ago
I have the feeling that a solution may be found somewhere in the French intervention in the War of Independence but I don't actually know enough about american history to formulate a complete answer.
– Ash
1 hour ago
1
It's most likely about the parent countries, so you need Britain to lose a war at a convenient moment. The trouble with that is you'll end up with the US using SI, but also speaking French.
– Separatrix
1 hour ago
@Separatrix as I said. As long as commoners use "normal" measurements and country name remains "United States of America", I do not care...
– Pavel Janicek
1 hour ago
1
@AlexP, it's not a guess, we're stubborn. Very stubborn. We like our pizza hot (sometimes) and our beer cold (sometimes) and football (our kind) on Sunday (unless it's Monday). We're confused by the letter "M" following a number and don't like to feel anything less than entirely in control (whether we are or aren't, usually the latter). We're remarkably good at ignoring the fact that 90% of our American-made cars... aren't. We're consistently inconsistent and like it that way - especially when it comes to our politics. It makes perfect sense why we don't use the metric system. Right?
– JBH
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
The U.S. of A. actually does use SI units. It's just that for their own reasons Americans prefer to use weird multiples. For example, an inch is by definition 25.4 millimeters, exactly; a pound is by definition 453.59237 grams, exactly; a fluid ounce is by definition 29.5735295625 milliliters, exactly. Why they use those strange numbers instead of powers of ten is anybody's guess. Note that in science and engineering Americans use the normal power of ten multiples of SI units. And a Fahrehneit degree is by definition 5/9 of a kelvin, with the triple point of water marked 32° F.
– AlexP
1 hour ago
I have the feeling that a solution may be found somewhere in the French intervention in the War of Independence but I don't actually know enough about american history to formulate a complete answer.
– Ash
1 hour ago
1
It's most likely about the parent countries, so you need Britain to lose a war at a convenient moment. The trouble with that is you'll end up with the US using SI, but also speaking French.
– Separatrix
1 hour ago
@Separatrix as I said. As long as commoners use "normal" measurements and country name remains "United States of America", I do not care...
– Pavel Janicek
1 hour ago
1
@AlexP, it's not a guess, we're stubborn. Very stubborn. We like our pizza hot (sometimes) and our beer cold (sometimes) and football (our kind) on Sunday (unless it's Monday). We're confused by the letter "M" following a number and don't like to feel anything less than entirely in control (whether we are or aren't, usually the latter). We're remarkably good at ignoring the fact that 90% of our American-made cars... aren't. We're consistently inconsistent and like it that way - especially when it comes to our politics. It makes perfect sense why we don't use the metric system. Right?
– JBH
1 hour ago
The U.S. of A. actually does use SI units. It's just that for their own reasons Americans prefer to use weird multiples. For example, an inch is by definition 25.4 millimeters, exactly; a pound is by definition 453.59237 grams, exactly; a fluid ounce is by definition 29.5735295625 milliliters, exactly. Why they use those strange numbers instead of powers of ten is anybody's guess. Note that in science and engineering Americans use the normal power of ten multiples of SI units. And a Fahrehneit degree is by definition 5/9 of a kelvin, with the triple point of water marked 32° F.
– AlexP
1 hour ago
The U.S. of A. actually does use SI units. It's just that for their own reasons Americans prefer to use weird multiples. For example, an inch is by definition 25.4 millimeters, exactly; a pound is by definition 453.59237 grams, exactly; a fluid ounce is by definition 29.5735295625 milliliters, exactly. Why they use those strange numbers instead of powers of ten is anybody's guess. Note that in science and engineering Americans use the normal power of ten multiples of SI units. And a Fahrehneit degree is by definition 5/9 of a kelvin, with the triple point of water marked 32° F.
– AlexP
1 hour ago
I have the feeling that a solution may be found somewhere in the French intervention in the War of Independence but I don't actually know enough about american history to formulate a complete answer.
– Ash
1 hour ago
I have the feeling that a solution may be found somewhere in the French intervention in the War of Independence but I don't actually know enough about american history to formulate a complete answer.
– Ash
1 hour ago
1
1
It's most likely about the parent countries, so you need Britain to lose a war at a convenient moment. The trouble with that is you'll end up with the US using SI, but also speaking French.
– Separatrix
1 hour ago
It's most likely about the parent countries, so you need Britain to lose a war at a convenient moment. The trouble with that is you'll end up with the US using SI, but also speaking French.
– Separatrix
1 hour ago
@Separatrix as I said. As long as commoners use "normal" measurements and country name remains "United States of America", I do not care...
– Pavel Janicek
1 hour ago
@Separatrix as I said. As long as commoners use "normal" measurements and country name remains "United States of America", I do not care...
– Pavel Janicek
1 hour ago
1
1
@AlexP, it's not a guess, we're stubborn. Very stubborn. We like our pizza hot (sometimes) and our beer cold (sometimes) and football (our kind) on Sunday (unless it's Monday). We're confused by the letter "M" following a number and don't like to feel anything less than entirely in control (whether we are or aren't, usually the latter). We're remarkably good at ignoring the fact that 90% of our American-made cars... aren't. We're consistently inconsistent and like it that way - especially when it comes to our politics. It makes perfect sense why we don't use the metric system. Right?
– JBH
1 hour ago
@AlexP, it's not a guess, we're stubborn. Very stubborn. We like our pizza hot (sometimes) and our beer cold (sometimes) and football (our kind) on Sunday (unless it's Monday). We're confused by the letter "M" following a number and don't like to feel anything less than entirely in control (whether we are or aren't, usually the latter). We're remarkably good at ignoring the fact that 90% of our American-made cars... aren't. We're consistently inconsistent and like it that way - especially when it comes to our politics. It makes perfect sense why we don't use the metric system. Right?
– JBH
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
Stop the pirates for ONE ship. Thomas Jefferson ordered a set of instruments from France that would let the US calibrate to SI units, but the ship was attacked at sea. The materials never arrived. By the time France sent a second set, US had a new Secretary of State who didn’t like metric system.
Details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.044a358ca5cf
answered 35 mins ago
SRM
14.1k32675
Thanks for a source! I heard the story, but I thought it is fake
– Pavel Janicek
33 mins ago
Seriously? I've never heard about this, this is awesome.
– Andon
26 mins ago
1
Also worth noting, this can be done without significant personal risk by changing the departure date of the ship. Look into the historical weather, and convince them to leave earlier or later. Not encountering the storm means they'd stay on course and be a more boring trip.
– Andon
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I know too little of the internal US affairs, but let's take a wide swing.
Help Napoleon
A paramount thing in making Napoleon I lose the war was the attack on Russia 1812 that eventually lead to the first defeat of Napoleon's forces by the allied forces. Notice UK being part of the coalition. Some time before, however, Napoleon was seeking alliance with Russia and was obsessed with attack or at least a blockade of the United Kingdom.
So, open options are:
- Derail the the Britain-Russian alliance in the context of the Third Coalition (1805).
- Change the outcome of Trafalgar (1805).
- There was some kind of a Franko-Russian alliance in 1807 in the context of failed Middle East alliances.
- There were (two in fact!) marriage proposals from Napoleon to closer Tsar's relatives, 1808 and 1810, if my memory suits me right. Although there was some kind of economical discrepancy, following a peace treaty that was not-so-profitable for Russian trade, it's nothing that cannot be fixed.
Basically, the goal here is either never let Napoleon invade Russia or to split UK from the (historically) winning coalition or to make France invade Britain earlier and/or more successful.
The question was about SI though
What does all this has to do with SI?
Well, SI was invented in France and France was its biggest proponent for quite some time. Taking UK out of political equation would result in much less cultural influence on the USA. Arguably, much fewer Irish people would move to US. But most importantly, the USA-France connection, that was quite warm at the foundation of the USA, would persist and be much, much stronger.
Those new United States might end speaking French or been swallowed up by Canada or what not. They might even not expand to the full size of the our realm's US or do it slower. (I doubt the French Empire would have too much interest in California, but who knows for sure?)
As one of the hallmarks of French cultural and technical expansion to the US, wide adoption of the SI would surely follow.
The aftermath
After the time-traveller returns back to his time, he'd notice severe differences in the US life. Cities might be named differently, have kept their "non-British" designations or not even exist. (Say, NY is New-Amsterdam.) Currency might be called differently and for sure have different design and different people on it. People talk French or at least have much more French than Latin or UK English loanwords in their language. And yes, the flight levels are stated in meters world-wide.
Mission accomplished.
edited 31 mins ago
Separatrix
69.7k30162273
answered 39 mins ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,554214
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
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Edit
I misread the OP's question and didn't realize he was looking for an historical event. I apologize. This isn't an answer to his question. But I had a lot of fun writing it, so I'm going to leave it up. Please don't vote for it. Cheers.
Not that I can believe (as an American)
In reality, the issue is cost. It's the consequence of a capitalistic society combined with a representative government.
Senator: We need to stop using multiple systems of measurement!
People: OK, we can see the value in that...
Senator: It means changing our schools and businesses! Everything from the paper we use to the measuring cups in our kitchen drawers! Think of the jobs! Think of the opportunity!
People: Wait, my measuring cups? Do you even know what dry measure is in the metric system? My paper? Who's going to pay for all this?
Senator: We'll need to pass a temporary tax to help subsidize business and schools to affect the change!
People: There hasn't been a temporary tax in U.S. history!1 I'm not voting for that! Government hasn't used a dollar efficiently since day one! Heck no, we won't go!
And after the protests have died down, we're back at square one.
We've had the same problem with adopting credit card security measures in use in Europe for years and years — the cost to convert everybody is whomping enormous, no one's willing to pay the price, and no one's willing to vote for anybody who's willing to committ to deficit spending to make it happen. The credit card industry finally forced the issue by making businesses responsible for fraudulent spending if they didn't change — and two years later there are a lot of businesses that still haven't changed.
Has there ever been examples of this happening successfully? Oddly, there are (kinda). The Feds outlawed the manufacture (and eventual sale) of 40W, 60W, 75W, and 100W incandescent light bulbs (a lovely attempt by the environmentalists to force the citizenry to reduce their power bills. You'd be surprised what we fight against). It happened — and while some people cheered, many loathed it.
It also happened with the conversion of TV broadcasting from analog to digital. The only way it happened was by the Feds giving away free analog-to-digital conversion boxes.
But converting the way we measure things?
In the end, people don't care about light bulbs so long as they fit in the lamp and do their job. Kinda ditto with TV. You don't actually need to think about anything (and Americans as a people aren't the best thinkers, not since WWII anyway). On the other hand, swaping out all our rulers, scales, forcing us to think about carrots in terms of grams.... (Although it has worked for soda. That's a curiosity all by itself....)
So, despite our entire scientific community using SI units, and pretty much all our cars using metric nuts and bolts, I honestly can't see any way to force such a change on the people other than the government simply choosing to do it — and whichever political party is in power at that time can expect to loose the presidency for 8-16 years because people will absolutely howl. Suddenly all of their great-grandma's recipies don't work anymore.
Unless...
Unless the government simply chose to mandate that all labeling of all products had to be metric-only. After that it would take (literally) 100 years to get everyone on board, but it would eventually happen. I think. (Oh, people would howl.)
Yeah. We're funny people.
1 Whether there has or hasn't isn't relevant. We don't perceive that there ever has been one. It's a very personal thing.
answered 43 mins ago
JBH
35.6k582169
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
Stop the pirates for ONE ship. Thomas Jefferson ordered a set of instruments from France that would let the US calibrate to SI units, but the ship was attacked at sea. The materials never arrived. By the time France sent a second set, US had a new Secretary of State who didn’t like metric system.
Details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.044a358ca5cf
answered 35 mins ago
SRM
14.1k32675
Thanks for a source! I heard the story, but I thought it is fake
– Pavel Janicek
33 mins ago
Seriously? I've never heard about this, this is awesome.
– Andon
26 mins ago
1
Also worth noting, this can be done without significant personal risk by changing the departure date of the ship. Look into the historical weather, and convince them to leave earlier or later. Not encountering the storm means they'd stay on course and be a more boring trip.
– Andon
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
Stop the pirates for ONE ship. Thomas Jefferson ordered a set of instruments from France that would let the US calibrate to SI units, but the ship was attacked at sea. The materials never arrived. By the time France sent a second set, US had a new Secretary of State who didn’t like metric system.
Details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.044a358ca5cf
answered 35 mins ago
SRM
14.1k32675
Thanks for a source! I heard the story, but I thought it is fake
– Pavel Janicek
33 mins ago
Seriously? I've never heard about this, this is awesome.
– Andon
26 mins ago
1
Also worth noting, this can be done without significant personal risk by changing the departure date of the ship. Look into the historical weather, and convince them to leave earlier or later. Not encountering the storm means they'd stay on course and be a more boring trip.
– Andon
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
Stop the pirates for ONE ship. Thomas Jefferson ordered a set of instruments from France that would let the US calibrate to SI units, but the ship was attacked at sea. The materials never arrived. By the time France sent a second set, US had a new Secretary of State who didn’t like metric system.
Details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.044a358ca5cf
answered 35 mins ago
SRM
14.1k32675
Stop the pirates for ONE ship. Thomas Jefferson ordered a set of instruments from France that would let the US calibrate to SI units, but the ship was attacked at sea. The materials never arrived. By the time France sent a second set, US had a new Secretary of State who didn’t like metric system.
Details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/09/19/pirates-yes-pirates-may-be-why-the-u-s-doesnt-use-the-metric-system/?utm_term=.044a358ca5cf
answered 35 mins ago
SRM
14.1k32675
answered 35 mins ago
SRM
14.1k32675
answered 35 mins ago
SRM
14.1k32675
answered 35 mins ago
SRM
14.1k32675
14.1k32675
Thanks for a source! I heard the story, but I thought it is fake
– Pavel Janicek
33 mins ago
Seriously? I've never heard about this, this is awesome.
– Andon
26 mins ago
1
Also worth noting, this can be done without significant personal risk by changing the departure date of the ship. Look into the historical weather, and convince them to leave earlier or later. Not encountering the storm means they'd stay on course and be a more boring trip.
– Andon
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Thanks for a source! I heard the story, but I thought it is fake
– Pavel Janicek
33 mins ago
Seriously? I've never heard about this, this is awesome.
– Andon
26 mins ago
1
Also worth noting, this can be done without significant personal risk by changing the departure date of the ship. Look into the historical weather, and convince them to leave earlier or later. Not encountering the storm means they'd stay on course and be a more boring trip.
– Andon
23 mins ago
Thanks for a source! I heard the story, but I thought it is fake
– Pavel Janicek
33 mins ago
Thanks for a source! I heard the story, but I thought it is fake
– Pavel Janicek
33 mins ago
Seriously? I've never heard about this, this is awesome.
– Andon
26 mins ago
Seriously? I've never heard about this, this is awesome.
– Andon
26 mins ago
1
1
Also worth noting, this can be done without significant personal risk by changing the departure date of the ship. Look into the historical weather, and convince them to leave earlier or later. Not encountering the storm means they'd stay on course and be a more boring trip.
– Andon
23 mins ago
Also worth noting, this can be done without significant personal risk by changing the departure date of the ship. Look into the historical weather, and convince them to leave earlier or later. Not encountering the storm means they'd stay on course and be a more boring trip.
– Andon
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I know too little of the internal US affairs, but let's take a wide swing.
Help Napoleon
A paramount thing in making Napoleon I lose the war was the attack on Russia 1812 that eventually lead to the first defeat of Napoleon's forces by the allied forces. Notice UK being part of the coalition. Some time before, however, Napoleon was seeking alliance with Russia and was obsessed with attack or at least a blockade of the United Kingdom.
So, open options are:
- Derail the the Britain-Russian alliance in the context of the Third Coalition (1805).
- Change the outcome of Trafalgar (1805).
- There was some kind of a Franko-Russian alliance in 1807 in the context of failed Middle East alliances.
- There were (two in fact!) marriage proposals from Napoleon to closer Tsar's relatives, 1808 and 1810, if my memory suits me right. Although there was some kind of economical discrepancy, following a peace treaty that was not-so-profitable for Russian trade, it's nothing that cannot be fixed.
Basically, the goal here is either never let Napoleon invade Russia or to split UK from the (historically) winning coalition or to make France invade Britain earlier and/or more successful.
The question was about SI though
What does all this has to do with SI?
Well, SI was invented in France and France was its biggest proponent for quite some time. Taking UK out of political equation would result in much less cultural influence on the USA. Arguably, much fewer Irish people would move to US. But most importantly, the USA-France connection, that was quite warm at the foundation of the USA, would persist and be much, much stronger.
Those new United States might end speaking French or been swallowed up by Canada or what not. They might even not expand to the full size of the our realm's US or do it slower. (I doubt the French Empire would have too much interest in California, but who knows for sure?)
As one of the hallmarks of French cultural and technical expansion to the US, wide adoption of the SI would surely follow.
The aftermath
After the time-traveller returns back to his time, he'd notice severe differences in the US life. Cities might be named differently, have kept their "non-British" designations or not even exist. (Say, NY is New-Amsterdam.) Currency might be called differently and for sure have different design and different people on it. People talk French or at least have much more French than Latin or UK English loanwords in their language. And yes, the flight levels are stated in meters world-wide.
Mission accomplished.
edited 31 mins ago
Separatrix
69.7k30162273
answered 39 mins ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,554214
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I know too little of the internal US affairs, but let's take a wide swing.
Help Napoleon
A paramount thing in making Napoleon I lose the war was the attack on Russia 1812 that eventually lead to the first defeat of Napoleon's forces by the allied forces. Notice UK being part of the coalition. Some time before, however, Napoleon was seeking alliance with Russia and was obsessed with attack or at least a blockade of the United Kingdom.
So, open options are:
- Derail the the Britain-Russian alliance in the context of the Third Coalition (1805).
- Change the outcome of Trafalgar (1805).
- There was some kind of a Franko-Russian alliance in 1807 in the context of failed Middle East alliances.
- There were (two in fact!) marriage proposals from Napoleon to closer Tsar's relatives, 1808 and 1810, if my memory suits me right. Although there was some kind of economical discrepancy, following a peace treaty that was not-so-profitable for Russian trade, it's nothing that cannot be fixed.
Basically, the goal here is either never let Napoleon invade Russia or to split UK from the (historically) winning coalition or to make France invade Britain earlier and/or more successful.
The question was about SI though
What does all this has to do with SI?
Well, SI was invented in France and France was its biggest proponent for quite some time. Taking UK out of political equation would result in much less cultural influence on the USA. Arguably, much fewer Irish people would move to US. But most importantly, the USA-France connection, that was quite warm at the foundation of the USA, would persist and be much, much stronger.
Those new United States might end speaking French or been swallowed up by Canada or what not. They might even not expand to the full size of the our realm's US or do it slower. (I doubt the French Empire would have too much interest in California, but who knows for sure?)
As one of the hallmarks of French cultural and technical expansion to the US, wide adoption of the SI would surely follow.
The aftermath
After the time-traveller returns back to his time, he'd notice severe differences in the US life. Cities might be named differently, have kept their "non-British" designations or not even exist. (Say, NY is New-Amsterdam.) Currency might be called differently and for sure have different design and different people on it. People talk French or at least have much more French than Latin or UK English loanwords in their language. And yes, the flight levels are stated in meters world-wide.
Mission accomplished.
edited 31 mins ago
Separatrix
69.7k30162273
answered 39 mins ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,554214
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I know too little of the internal US affairs, but let's take a wide swing.
Help Napoleon
A paramount thing in making Napoleon I lose the war was the attack on Russia 1812 that eventually lead to the first defeat of Napoleon's forces by the allied forces. Notice UK being part of the coalition. Some time before, however, Napoleon was seeking alliance with Russia and was obsessed with attack or at least a blockade of the United Kingdom.
So, open options are:
- Derail the the Britain-Russian alliance in the context of the Third Coalition (1805).
- Change the outcome of Trafalgar (1805).
- There was some kind of a Franko-Russian alliance in 1807 in the context of failed Middle East alliances.
- There were (two in fact!) marriage proposals from Napoleon to closer Tsar's relatives, 1808 and 1810, if my memory suits me right. Although there was some kind of economical discrepancy, following a peace treaty that was not-so-profitable for Russian trade, it's nothing that cannot be fixed.
Basically, the goal here is either never let Napoleon invade Russia or to split UK from the (historically) winning coalition or to make France invade Britain earlier and/or more successful.
The question was about SI though
What does all this has to do with SI?
Well, SI was invented in France and France was its biggest proponent for quite some time. Taking UK out of political equation would result in much less cultural influence on the USA. Arguably, much fewer Irish people would move to US. But most importantly, the USA-France connection, that was quite warm at the foundation of the USA, would persist and be much, much stronger.
Those new United States might end speaking French or been swallowed up by Canada or what not. They might even not expand to the full size of the our realm's US or do it slower. (I doubt the French Empire would have too much interest in California, but who knows for sure?)
As one of the hallmarks of French cultural and technical expansion to the US, wide adoption of the SI would surely follow.
The aftermath
After the time-traveller returns back to his time, he'd notice severe differences in the US life. Cities might be named differently, have kept their "non-British" designations or not even exist. (Say, NY is New-Amsterdam.) Currency might be called differently and for sure have different design and different people on it. People talk French or at least have much more French than Latin or UK English loanwords in their language. And yes, the flight levels are stated in meters world-wide.
Mission accomplished.
edited 31 mins ago
Separatrix
69.7k30162273
answered 39 mins ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,554214
I know too little of the internal US affairs, but let's take a wide swing.
Help Napoleon
A paramount thing in making Napoleon I lose the war was the attack on Russia 1812 that eventually lead to the first defeat of Napoleon's forces by the allied forces. Notice UK being part of the coalition. Some time before, however, Napoleon was seeking alliance with Russia and was obsessed with attack or at least a blockade of the United Kingdom.
So, open options are:
- Derail the the Britain-Russian alliance in the context of the Third Coalition (1805).
- Change the outcome of Trafalgar (1805).
- There was some kind of a Franko-Russian alliance in 1807 in the context of failed Middle East alliances.
- There were (two in fact!) marriage proposals from Napoleon to closer Tsar's relatives, 1808 and 1810, if my memory suits me right. Although there was some kind of economical discrepancy, following a peace treaty that was not-so-profitable for Russian trade, it's nothing that cannot be fixed.
Basically, the goal here is either never let Napoleon invade Russia or to split UK from the (historically) winning coalition or to make France invade Britain earlier and/or more successful.
The question was about SI though
What does all this has to do with SI?
Well, SI was invented in France and France was its biggest proponent for quite some time. Taking UK out of political equation would result in much less cultural influence on the USA. Arguably, much fewer Irish people would move to US. But most importantly, the USA-France connection, that was quite warm at the foundation of the USA, would persist and be much, much stronger.
Those new United States might end speaking French or been swallowed up by Canada or what not. They might even not expand to the full size of the our realm's US or do it slower. (I doubt the French Empire would have too much interest in California, but who knows for sure?)
As one of the hallmarks of French cultural and technical expansion to the US, wide adoption of the SI would surely follow.
The aftermath
After the time-traveller returns back to his time, he'd notice severe differences in the US life. Cities might be named differently, have kept their "non-British" designations or not even exist. (Say, NY is New-Amsterdam.) Currency might be called differently and for sure have different design and different people on it. People talk French or at least have much more French than Latin or UK English loanwords in their language. And yes, the flight levels are stated in meters world-wide.
Mission accomplished.
edited 31 mins ago
Separatrix
69.7k30162273
answered 39 mins ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,554214
edited 31 mins ago
Separatrix
69.7k30162273
edited 31 mins ago
Separatrix
69.7k30162273
edited 31 mins ago
Separatrix
69.7k30162273
69.7k30162273
answered 39 mins ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,554214
answered 39 mins ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,554214
answered 39 mins ago
Oleg Lobachev
1,554214
1,554214
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
Edit
I misread the OP's question and didn't realize he was looking for an historical event. I apologize. This isn't an answer to his question. But I had a lot of fun writing it, so I'm going to leave it up. Please don't vote for it. Cheers.
Not that I can believe (as an American)
In reality, the issue is cost. It's the consequence of a capitalistic society combined with a representative government.
Senator: We need to stop using multiple systems of measurement!
People: OK, we can see the value in that...
Senator: It means changing our schools and businesses! Everything from the paper we use to the measuring cups in our kitchen drawers! Think of the jobs! Think of the opportunity!
People: Wait, my measuring cups? Do you even know what dry measure is in the metric system? My paper? Who's going to pay for all this?
Senator: We'll need to pass a temporary tax to help subsidize business and schools to affect the change!
People: There hasn't been a temporary tax in U.S. history!1 I'm not voting for that! Government hasn't used a dollar efficiently since day one! Heck no, we won't go!
And after the protests have died down, we're back at square one.
We've had the same problem with adopting credit card security measures in use in Europe for years and years — the cost to convert everybody is whomping enormous, no one's willing to pay the price, and no one's willing to vote for anybody who's willing to committ to deficit spending to make it happen. The credit card industry finally forced the issue by making businesses responsible for fraudulent spending if they didn't change — and two years later there are a lot of businesses that still haven't changed.
Has there ever been examples of this happening successfully? Oddly, there are (kinda). The Feds outlawed the manufacture (and eventual sale) of 40W, 60W, 75W, and 100W incandescent light bulbs (a lovely attempt by the environmentalists to force the citizenry to reduce their power bills. You'd be surprised what we fight against). It happened — and while some people cheered, many loathed it.
It also happened with the conversion of TV broadcasting from analog to digital. The only way it happened was by the Feds giving away free analog-to-digital conversion boxes.
But converting the way we measure things?
In the end, people don't care about light bulbs so long as they fit in the lamp and do their job. Kinda ditto with TV. You don't actually need to think about anything (and Americans as a people aren't the best thinkers, not since WWII anyway). On the other hand, swaping out all our rulers, scales, forcing us to think about carrots in terms of grams.... (Although it has worked for soda. That's a curiosity all by itself....)
So, despite our entire scientific community using SI units, and pretty much all our cars using metric nuts and bolts, I honestly can't see any way to force such a change on the people other than the government simply choosing to do it — and whichever political party is in power at that time can expect to loose the presidency for 8-16 years because people will absolutely howl. Suddenly all of their great-grandma's recipies don't work anymore.
Unless...
Unless the government simply chose to mandate that all labeling of all products had to be metric-only. After that it would take (literally) 100 years to get everyone on board, but it would eventually happen. I think. (Oh, people would howl.)
Yeah. We're funny people.
1 Whether there has or hasn't isn't relevant. We don't perceive that there ever has been one. It's a very personal thing.
answered 43 mins ago
JBH
35.6k582169
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
Edit
I misread the OP's question and didn't realize he was looking for an historical event. I apologize. This isn't an answer to his question. But I had a lot of fun writing it, so I'm going to leave it up. Please don't vote for it. Cheers.
Not that I can believe (as an American)
In reality, the issue is cost. It's the consequence of a capitalistic society combined with a representative government.
Senator: We need to stop using multiple systems of measurement!
People: OK, we can see the value in that...
Senator: It means changing our schools and businesses! Everything from the paper we use to the measuring cups in our kitchen drawers! Think of the jobs! Think of the opportunity!
People: Wait, my measuring cups? Do you even know what dry measure is in the metric system? My paper? Who's going to pay for all this?
Senator: We'll need to pass a temporary tax to help subsidize business and schools to affect the change!
People: There hasn't been a temporary tax in U.S. history!1 I'm not voting for that! Government hasn't used a dollar efficiently since day one! Heck no, we won't go!
And after the protests have died down, we're back at square one.
We've had the same problem with adopting credit card security measures in use in Europe for years and years — the cost to convert everybody is whomping enormous, no one's willing to pay the price, and no one's willing to vote for anybody who's willing to committ to deficit spending to make it happen. The credit card industry finally forced the issue by making businesses responsible for fraudulent spending if they didn't change — and two years later there are a lot of businesses that still haven't changed.
Has there ever been examples of this happening successfully? Oddly, there are (kinda). The Feds outlawed the manufacture (and eventual sale) of 40W, 60W, 75W, and 100W incandescent light bulbs (a lovely attempt by the environmentalists to force the citizenry to reduce their power bills. You'd be surprised what we fight against). It happened — and while some people cheered, many loathed it.
It also happened with the conversion of TV broadcasting from analog to digital. The only way it happened was by the Feds giving away free analog-to-digital conversion boxes.
But converting the way we measure things?
In the end, people don't care about light bulbs so long as they fit in the lamp and do their job. Kinda ditto with TV. You don't actually need to think about anything (and Americans as a people aren't the best thinkers, not since WWII anyway). On the other hand, swaping out all our rulers, scales, forcing us to think about carrots in terms of grams.... (Although it has worked for soda. That's a curiosity all by itself....)
So, despite our entire scientific community using SI units, and pretty much all our cars using metric nuts and bolts, I honestly can't see any way to force such a change on the people other than the government simply choosing to do it — and whichever political party is in power at that time can expect to loose the presidency for 8-16 years because people will absolutely howl. Suddenly all of their great-grandma's recipies don't work anymore.
Unless...
Unless the government simply chose to mandate that all labeling of all products had to be metric-only. After that it would take (literally) 100 years to get everyone on board, but it would eventually happen. I think. (Oh, people would howl.)
Yeah. We're funny people.
1 Whether there has or hasn't isn't relevant. We don't perceive that there ever has been one. It's a very personal thing.
answered 43 mins ago
JBH
35.6k582169
add a comment |Â
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
Edit
I misread the OP's question and didn't realize he was looking for an historical event. I apologize. This isn't an answer to his question. But I had a lot of fun writing it, so I'm going to leave it up. Please don't vote for it. Cheers.
Not that I can believe (as an American)
In reality, the issue is cost. It's the consequence of a capitalistic society combined with a representative government.
Senator: We need to stop using multiple systems of measurement!
People: OK, we can see the value in that...
Senator: It means changing our schools and businesses! Everything from the paper we use to the measuring cups in our kitchen drawers! Think of the jobs! Think of the opportunity!
People: Wait, my measuring cups? Do you even know what dry measure is in the metric system? My paper? Who's going to pay for all this?
Senator: We'll need to pass a temporary tax to help subsidize business and schools to affect the change!
People: There hasn't been a temporary tax in U.S. history!1 I'm not voting for that! Government hasn't used a dollar efficiently since day one! Heck no, we won't go!
And after the protests have died down, we're back at square one.
We've had the same problem with adopting credit card security measures in use in Europe for years and years — the cost to convert everybody is whomping enormous, no one's willing to pay the price, and no one's willing to vote for anybody who's willing to committ to deficit spending to make it happen. The credit card industry finally forced the issue by making businesses responsible for fraudulent spending if they didn't change — and two years later there are a lot of businesses that still haven't changed.
Has there ever been examples of this happening successfully? Oddly, there are (kinda). The Feds outlawed the manufacture (and eventual sale) of 40W, 60W, 75W, and 100W incandescent light bulbs (a lovely attempt by the environmentalists to force the citizenry to reduce their power bills. You'd be surprised what we fight against). It happened — and while some people cheered, many loathed it.
It also happened with the conversion of TV broadcasting from analog to digital. The only way it happened was by the Feds giving away free analog-to-digital conversion boxes.
But converting the way we measure things?
In the end, people don't care about light bulbs so long as they fit in the lamp and do their job. Kinda ditto with TV. You don't actually need to think about anything (and Americans as a people aren't the best thinkers, not since WWII anyway). On the other hand, swaping out all our rulers, scales, forcing us to think about carrots in terms of grams.... (Although it has worked for soda. That's a curiosity all by itself....)
So, despite our entire scientific community using SI units, and pretty much all our cars using metric nuts and bolts, I honestly can't see any way to force such a change on the people other than the government simply choosing to do it — and whichever political party is in power at that time can expect to loose the presidency for 8-16 years because people will absolutely howl. Suddenly all of their great-grandma's recipies don't work anymore.
Unless...
Unless the government simply chose to mandate that all labeling of all products had to be metric-only. After that it would take (literally) 100 years to get everyone on board, but it would eventually happen. I think. (Oh, people would howl.)
Yeah. We're funny people.
1 Whether there has or hasn't isn't relevant. We don't perceive that there ever has been one. It's a very personal thing.
answered 43 mins ago
JBH
35.6k582169
Edit
I misread the OP's question and didn't realize he was looking for an historical event. I apologize. This isn't an answer to his question. But I had a lot of fun writing it, so I'm going to leave it up. Please don't vote for it. Cheers.
Not that I can believe (as an American)
In reality, the issue is cost. It's the consequence of a capitalistic society combined with a representative government.
Senator: We need to stop using multiple systems of measurement!
People: OK, we can see the value in that...
Senator: It means changing our schools and businesses! Everything from the paper we use to the measuring cups in our kitchen drawers! Think of the jobs! Think of the opportunity!
People: Wait, my measuring cups? Do you even know what dry measure is in the metric system? My paper? Who's going to pay for all this?
Senator: We'll need to pass a temporary tax to help subsidize business and schools to affect the change!
People: There hasn't been a temporary tax in U.S. history!1 I'm not voting for that! Government hasn't used a dollar efficiently since day one! Heck no, we won't go!
And after the protests have died down, we're back at square one.
We've had the same problem with adopting credit card security measures in use in Europe for years and years — the cost to convert everybody is whomping enormous, no one's willing to pay the price, and no one's willing to vote for anybody who's willing to committ to deficit spending to make it happen. The credit card industry finally forced the issue by making businesses responsible for fraudulent spending if they didn't change — and two years later there are a lot of businesses that still haven't changed.
Has there ever been examples of this happening successfully? Oddly, there are (kinda). The Feds outlawed the manufacture (and eventual sale) of 40W, 60W, 75W, and 100W incandescent light bulbs (a lovely attempt by the environmentalists to force the citizenry to reduce their power bills. You'd be surprised what we fight against). It happened — and while some people cheered, many loathed it.
It also happened with the conversion of TV broadcasting from analog to digital. The only way it happened was by the Feds giving away free analog-to-digital conversion boxes.
But converting the way we measure things?
In the end, people don't care about light bulbs so long as they fit in the lamp and do their job. Kinda ditto with TV. You don't actually need to think about anything (and Americans as a people aren't the best thinkers, not since WWII anyway). On the other hand, swaping out all our rulers, scales, forcing us to think about carrots in terms of grams.... (Although it has worked for soda. That's a curiosity all by itself....)
So, despite our entire scientific community using SI units, and pretty much all our cars using metric nuts and bolts, I honestly can't see any way to force such a change on the people other than the government simply choosing to do it — and whichever political party is in power at that time can expect to loose the presidency for 8-16 years because people will absolutely howl. Suddenly all of their great-grandma's recipies don't work anymore.
Unless...
Unless the government simply chose to mandate that all labeling of all products had to be metric-only. After that it would take (literally) 100 years to get everyone on board, but it would eventually happen. I think. (Oh, people would howl.)
Yeah. We're funny people.
1 Whether there has or hasn't isn't relevant. We don't perceive that there ever has been one. It's a very personal thing.
answered 43 mins ago
JBH
35.6k582169
edited 33 mins ago
answered 43 mins ago
JBH
35.6k582169
answered 43 mins ago
JBH
35.6k582169
answered 43 mins ago
JBH
35.6k582169
35.6k582169
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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The U.S. of A. actually does use SI units. It's just that for their own reasons Americans prefer to use weird multiples. For example, an inch is by definition 25.4 millimeters, exactly; a pound is by definition 453.59237 grams, exactly; a fluid ounce is by definition 29.5735295625 milliliters, exactly. Why they use those strange numbers instead of powers of ten is anybody's guess. Note that in science and engineering Americans use the normal power of ten multiples of SI units. And a Fahrehneit degree is by definition 5/9 of a kelvin, with the triple point of water marked 32° F.
– AlexP
1 hour ago
I have the feeling that a solution may be found somewhere in the French intervention in the War of Independence but I don't actually know enough about american history to formulate a complete answer.
– Ash
1 hour ago
1
It's most likely about the parent countries, so you need Britain to lose a war at a convenient moment. The trouble with that is you'll end up with the US using SI, but also speaking French.
– Separatrix
1 hour ago
@Separatrix as I said. As long as commoners use "normal" measurements and country name remains "United States of America", I do not care...
– Pavel Janicek
1 hour ago
1
@AlexP, it's not a guess, we're stubborn. Very stubborn. We like our pizza hot (sometimes) and our beer cold (sometimes) and football (our kind) on Sunday (unless it's Monday). We're confused by the letter "M" following a number and don't like to feel anything less than entirely in control (whether we are or aren't, usually the latter). We're remarkably good at ignoring the fact that 90% of our American-made cars... aren't. We're consistently inconsistent and like it that way - especially when it comes to our politics. It makes perfect sense why we don't use the metric system. Right?
– JBH
1 hour ago