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Pairs of words differing only by a soft sign
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When I was taking my one (weak) Russian course years ago, I ran across an MP3 with sample sounds. The pair that got me very worried was ÑþрøѠvs ÑþрøÑÂь. At the time, I could hear only the vaguest difference between those sounds, much less be able to reliably speak them. Recently I was wondering how common it is in Russian that two words differ only by a soft sign. Is that rare, not uncommon, or happens all the time? Is there any list of words like this somewhere? I was thinking of developing a list and saying one of the pair to a native speaker and asking them which one I said, and having them say a random choice and me telling them what I heard.
I remember reading about how close the French words for "over" and "under" sound (both sound like "desous"), and that French orators tend to avoid using them because it is hard to make sure everyone hears the right word over a PA system, etc. Does the same thing happen in Russian, or is the difference really obvious to the native Russian ear? Or does Russian encode words differing only in a soft sign with wildly different meaning so the correct word is heard easily in context? (Apparently, ÑþрøÑÂь is archaic.)
These days when I meet a native Russian speaker, I often ask them to pronounce ÑþрøѠvs ÑþрøÑÂь, so I can again marvel at how subtle the difference is to this native English speaker's ear.
ÿрþø÷ýþшõýøõ
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Lester Buck
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When I was taking my one (weak) Russian course years ago, I ran across an MP3 with sample sounds. The pair that got me very worried was ÑþрøѠvs ÑþрøÑÂь. At the time, I could hear only the vaguest difference between those sounds, much less be able to reliably speak them. Recently I was wondering how common it is in Russian that two words differ only by a soft sign. Is that rare, not uncommon, or happens all the time? Is there any list of words like this somewhere? I was thinking of developing a list and saying one of the pair to a native speaker and asking them which one I said, and having them say a random choice and me telling them what I heard.
I remember reading about how close the French words for "over" and "under" sound (both sound like "desous"), and that French orators tend to avoid using them because it is hard to make sure everyone hears the right word over a PA system, etc. Does the same thing happen in Russian, or is the difference really obvious to the native Russian ear? Or does Russian encode words differing only in a soft sign with wildly different meaning so the correct word is heard easily in context? (Apparently, ÑþрøÑÂь is archaic.)
These days when I meet a native Russian speaker, I often ask them to pronounce ÑþрøѠvs ÑþрøÑÂь, so I can again marvel at how subtle the difference is to this native English speaker's ear.
ÿрþø÷ýþшõýøõ
asked 2 hours ago
Lester Buck
1062
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Lester Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
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down vote
favorite
When I was taking my one (weak) Russian course years ago, I ran across an MP3 with sample sounds. The pair that got me very worried was ÑþрøѠvs ÑþрøÑÂь. At the time, I could hear only the vaguest difference between those sounds, much less be able to reliably speak them. Recently I was wondering how common it is in Russian that two words differ only by a soft sign. Is that rare, not uncommon, or happens all the time? Is there any list of words like this somewhere? I was thinking of developing a list and saying one of the pair to a native speaker and asking them which one I said, and having them say a random choice and me telling them what I heard.
I remember reading about how close the French words for "over" and "under" sound (both sound like "desous"), and that French orators tend to avoid using them because it is hard to make sure everyone hears the right word over a PA system, etc. Does the same thing happen in Russian, or is the difference really obvious to the native Russian ear? Or does Russian encode words differing only in a soft sign with wildly different meaning so the correct word is heard easily in context? (Apparently, ÑþрøÑÂь is archaic.)
These days when I meet a native Russian speaker, I often ask them to pronounce ÑþрøѠvs ÑþрøÑÂь, so I can again marvel at how subtle the difference is to this native English speaker's ear.
ÿрþø÷ýþшõýøõ
asked 2 hours ago
Lester Buck
1062
New contributor
Lester Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
When I was taking my one (weak) Russian course years ago, I ran across an MP3 with sample sounds. The pair that got me very worried was ÑþрøѠvs ÑþрøÑÂь. At the time, I could hear only the vaguest difference between those sounds, much less be able to reliably speak them. Recently I was wondering how common it is in Russian that two words differ only by a soft sign. Is that rare, not uncommon, or happens all the time? Is there any list of words like this somewhere? I was thinking of developing a list and saying one of the pair to a native speaker and asking them which one I said, and having them say a random choice and me telling them what I heard.
I remember reading about how close the French words for "over" and "under" sound (both sound like "desous"), and that French orators tend to avoid using them because it is hard to make sure everyone hears the right word over a PA system, etc. Does the same thing happen in Russian, or is the difference really obvious to the native Russian ear? Or does Russian encode words differing only in a soft sign with wildly different meaning so the correct word is heard easily in context? (Apparently, ÑþрøÑÂь is archaic.)
These days when I meet a native Russian speaker, I often ask them to pronounce ÑþрøѠvs ÑþрøÑÂь, so I can again marvel at how subtle the difference is to this native English speaker's ear.
ÿрþø÷ýþшõýøõ
ÿрþø÷ýþшõýøõ
asked 2 hours ago
Lester Buck
1062
New contributor
Lester Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked 2 hours ago
Lester Buck
1062
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Lester Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Lester Buck
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Lester Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked 2 hours ago
Lester Buck
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asked 2 hours ago
Lester Buck
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1062
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Lester Buck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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2 Answers
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The vowels in dessous and dessus are clearly different - like u in full vs u in dude. Unless you pronounce dude like dood there shouldn't be any confusion between 'below' and 'above' in French.
There is a clear difference to a Russian speaker between the consonants with and without the soft sign. Úþýь sounds different from úþý and ôðûь sounds different from ôðû.
Palatalized vs non-palatalized consonant is easily audible for a native speaker. There might be more combination like that, but it's the only one I can think of that comes up often.
In fact the only two words that sound very similar and often have to be repeated loudly in Russian that I can think of are Øюýь and Øюûь, but it's because of l and n sounding similar in that particular combination, especially when pronounced quickly.
Try saying Ron, then Ronnie. And try to cut off the 'ie' from Ronnie while keeping the trailing soft sound after the 'n'. It sounds as if you were going to pronounce 'e' or 'i' after a consonant but changed your way at the very last moment and the vowel got cut off, leaving consonant sounding different than normally.
Find an audio of ôõûьфøý In Russian. Don't worry about the stress (it's on the second syllable), just listen to the l sound and compare it with l in English dolphin. You can use Google Translate, the pronunciation is alright there. It might not be clear if you're not used to the sound, but once you get it, you shouldn't be confused afterwards.
This video starts right at chorus.
https://youtu.be/FqB-m0dKO-g?t=78
At the second line (repeated throughout) there are two words with and without soft sign after т - ÿðüÑÂть and ûõт. The singer cuts off 't' very nicely so ûõт has a very nice short hard т sound, (while ÿðüÑÂть has a soft t).
answered 51 mins ago
AR.
4734
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up vote
1
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It seems to me that there are not so many Russian words like that.
Here are a few pairs I can think of:
Ãœþû - üþûь
àþûû - рþûь (the spelling differs a lot but the sound at the end is very similar - the only difference is the l' sound at the end of рþûь)
Úрþò - úрþòь
Ã’þýь - òþý
Úþÿ - úþÿь
×þр - ÷þрь
Ãœþрþ÷ - üþрþ÷ь
Of course, there may be more examples. If I remember some more, I promise to edit my answer adding the pair(s).
As for understanding which word is being said, I don't think it's too hard. I can't remember a time when I or someone I know had such problems.
answered 1 hour ago
Enguroo
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
The vowels in dessous and dessus are clearly different - like u in full vs u in dude. Unless you pronounce dude like dood there shouldn't be any confusion between 'below' and 'above' in French.
There is a clear difference to a Russian speaker between the consonants with and without the soft sign. Úþýь sounds different from úþý and ôðûь sounds different from ôðû.
Palatalized vs non-palatalized consonant is easily audible for a native speaker. There might be more combination like that, but it's the only one I can think of that comes up often.
In fact the only two words that sound very similar and often have to be repeated loudly in Russian that I can think of are Øюýь and Øюûь, but it's because of l and n sounding similar in that particular combination, especially when pronounced quickly.
Try saying Ron, then Ronnie. And try to cut off the 'ie' from Ronnie while keeping the trailing soft sound after the 'n'. It sounds as if you were going to pronounce 'e' or 'i' after a consonant but changed your way at the very last moment and the vowel got cut off, leaving consonant sounding different than normally.
Find an audio of ôõûьфøý In Russian. Don't worry about the stress (it's on the second syllable), just listen to the l sound and compare it with l in English dolphin. You can use Google Translate, the pronunciation is alright there. It might not be clear if you're not used to the sound, but once you get it, you shouldn't be confused afterwards.
This video starts right at chorus.
https://youtu.be/FqB-m0dKO-g?t=78
At the second line (repeated throughout) there are two words with and without soft sign after т - ÿðüÑÂть and ûõт. The singer cuts off 't' very nicely so ûõт has a very nice short hard т sound, (while ÿðüÑÂть has a soft t).
answered 51 mins ago
AR.
4734
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
The vowels in dessous and dessus are clearly different - like u in full vs u in dude. Unless you pronounce dude like dood there shouldn't be any confusion between 'below' and 'above' in French.
There is a clear difference to a Russian speaker between the consonants with and without the soft sign. Úþýь sounds different from úþý and ôðûь sounds different from ôðû.
Palatalized vs non-palatalized consonant is easily audible for a native speaker. There might be more combination like that, but it's the only one I can think of that comes up often.
In fact the only two words that sound very similar and often have to be repeated loudly in Russian that I can think of are Øюýь and Øюûь, but it's because of l and n sounding similar in that particular combination, especially when pronounced quickly.
Try saying Ron, then Ronnie. And try to cut off the 'ie' from Ronnie while keeping the trailing soft sound after the 'n'. It sounds as if you were going to pronounce 'e' or 'i' after a consonant but changed your way at the very last moment and the vowel got cut off, leaving consonant sounding different than normally.
Find an audio of ôõûьфøý In Russian. Don't worry about the stress (it's on the second syllable), just listen to the l sound and compare it with l in English dolphin. You can use Google Translate, the pronunciation is alright there. It might not be clear if you're not used to the sound, but once you get it, you shouldn't be confused afterwards.
This video starts right at chorus.
https://youtu.be/FqB-m0dKO-g?t=78
At the second line (repeated throughout) there are two words with and without soft sign after т - ÿðüÑÂть and ûõт. The singer cuts off 't' very nicely so ûõт has a very nice short hard т sound, (while ÿðüÑÂть has a soft t).
answered 51 mins ago
AR.
4734
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The vowels in dessous and dessus are clearly different - like u in full vs u in dude. Unless you pronounce dude like dood there shouldn't be any confusion between 'below' and 'above' in French.
There is a clear difference to a Russian speaker between the consonants with and without the soft sign. Úþýь sounds different from úþý and ôðûь sounds different from ôðû.
Palatalized vs non-palatalized consonant is easily audible for a native speaker. There might be more combination like that, but it's the only one I can think of that comes up often.
In fact the only two words that sound very similar and often have to be repeated loudly in Russian that I can think of are Øюýь and Øюûь, but it's because of l and n sounding similar in that particular combination, especially when pronounced quickly.
Try saying Ron, then Ronnie. And try to cut off the 'ie' from Ronnie while keeping the trailing soft sound after the 'n'. It sounds as if you were going to pronounce 'e' or 'i' after a consonant but changed your way at the very last moment and the vowel got cut off, leaving consonant sounding different than normally.
Find an audio of ôõûьфøý In Russian. Don't worry about the stress (it's on the second syllable), just listen to the l sound and compare it with l in English dolphin. You can use Google Translate, the pronunciation is alright there. It might not be clear if you're not used to the sound, but once you get it, you shouldn't be confused afterwards.
This video starts right at chorus.
https://youtu.be/FqB-m0dKO-g?t=78
At the second line (repeated throughout) there are two words with and without soft sign after т - ÿðüÑÂть and ûõт. The singer cuts off 't' very nicely so ûõт has a very nice short hard т sound, (while ÿðüÑÂть has a soft t).
answered 51 mins ago
AR.
4734
The vowels in dessous and dessus are clearly different - like u in full vs u in dude. Unless you pronounce dude like dood there shouldn't be any confusion between 'below' and 'above' in French.
There is a clear difference to a Russian speaker between the consonants with and without the soft sign. Úþýь sounds different from úþý and ôðûь sounds different from ôðû.
Palatalized vs non-palatalized consonant is easily audible for a native speaker. There might be more combination like that, but it's the only one I can think of that comes up often.
In fact the only two words that sound very similar and often have to be repeated loudly in Russian that I can think of are Øюýь and Øюûь, but it's because of l and n sounding similar in that particular combination, especially when pronounced quickly.
Try saying Ron, then Ronnie. And try to cut off the 'ie' from Ronnie while keeping the trailing soft sound after the 'n'. It sounds as if you were going to pronounce 'e' or 'i' after a consonant but changed your way at the very last moment and the vowel got cut off, leaving consonant sounding different than normally.
Find an audio of ôõûьфøý In Russian. Don't worry about the stress (it's on the second syllable), just listen to the l sound and compare it with l in English dolphin. You can use Google Translate, the pronunciation is alright there. It might not be clear if you're not used to the sound, but once you get it, you shouldn't be confused afterwards.
This video starts right at chorus.
https://youtu.be/FqB-m0dKO-g?t=78
At the second line (repeated throughout) there are two words with and without soft sign after т - ÿðüÑÂть and ûõт. The singer cuts off 't' very nicely so ûõт has a very nice short hard т sound, (while ÿðüÑÂть has a soft t).
answered 51 mins ago
AR.
4734
answered 51 mins ago
AR.
4734
answered 51 mins ago
AR.
4734
answered 51 mins ago
AR.
4734
4734
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
It seems to me that there are not so many Russian words like that.
Here are a few pairs I can think of:
Ãœþû - üþûь
àþûû - рþûь (the spelling differs a lot but the sound at the end is very similar - the only difference is the l' sound at the end of рþûь)
Úрþò - úрþòь
Ã’þýь - òþý
Úþÿ - úþÿь
×þр - ÷þрь
Ãœþрþ÷ - üþрþ÷ь
Of course, there may be more examples. If I remember some more, I promise to edit my answer adding the pair(s).
As for understanding which word is being said, I don't think it's too hard. I can't remember a time when I or someone I know had such problems.
answered 1 hour ago
Enguroo
2678
New contributor
Enguroo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
It seems to me that there are not so many Russian words like that.
Here are a few pairs I can think of:
Ãœþû - üþûь
àþûû - рþûь (the spelling differs a lot but the sound at the end is very similar - the only difference is the l' sound at the end of рþûь)
Úрþò - úрþòь
Ã’þýь - òþý
Úþÿ - úþÿь
×þр - ÷þрь
Ãœþрþ÷ - üþрþ÷ь
Of course, there may be more examples. If I remember some more, I promise to edit my answer adding the pair(s).
As for understanding which word is being said, I don't think it's too hard. I can't remember a time when I or someone I know had such problems.
answered 1 hour ago
Enguroo
2678
New contributor
Enguroo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
It seems to me that there are not so many Russian words like that.
Here are a few pairs I can think of:
Ãœþû - üþûь
àþûû - рþûь (the spelling differs a lot but the sound at the end is very similar - the only difference is the l' sound at the end of рþûь)
Úрþò - úрþòь
Ã’þýь - òþý
Úþÿ - úþÿь
×þр - ÷þрь
Ãœþрþ÷ - üþрþ÷ь
Of course, there may be more examples. If I remember some more, I promise to edit my answer adding the pair(s).
As for understanding which word is being said, I don't think it's too hard. I can't remember a time when I or someone I know had such problems.
answered 1 hour ago
Enguroo
2678
New contributor
Enguroo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
It seems to me that there are not so many Russian words like that.
Here are a few pairs I can think of:
Ãœþû - üþûь
àþûû - рþûь (the spelling differs a lot but the sound at the end is very similar - the only difference is the l' sound at the end of рþûь)
Úрþò - úрþòь
Ã’þýь - òþý
Úþÿ - úþÿь
×þр - ÷þрь
Ãœþрþ÷ - üþрþ÷ь
Of course, there may be more examples. If I remember some more, I promise to edit my answer adding the pair(s).
As for understanding which word is being said, I don't think it's too hard. I can't remember a time when I or someone I know had such problems.
answered 1 hour ago
Enguroo
2678
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Enguroo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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edited 15 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Enguroo
2678
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Enguroo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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answered 1 hour ago
Enguroo
2678
answered 1 hour ago
Enguroo
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2678
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Enguroo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor
Enguroo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Enguroo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Lester Buck is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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