Does quantum mechanics allow you to simulate chemical reactions in software?

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I'm a software developer interested in learning quantum mechanics to simulate chemistry. I know it's a very difficult topic, so I consider it a long term "someday/maybe" goal, and I’m not sure it's even possible.



I've listened to some video lectures in introductory QM courses like Susskind's and Brant Carlson's youtube videos, and the content so far seems far removed from computing "chemistry" things like electron orbital shapes or bond energies.



Is it possible to simulate the time evolution of something "simple" like the colliding and reacting molecules in: $2H_2 + 0_2 rightarrow 2H_20$? I mean simulate from first principles - pure quantum mechanics without any estimates like "pretend this atom is a mass on a spring", etc.



If it is possible, what is a rough outline of the college courses required to go from point A to B - from intro quantum mechanics to the understanding needed to write code for that simulation? (Maybe it's less about the physics and more about tricky computational techniques of estimating solutions to equations?)










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    I have no definitive answer, just an observation that $H_2 O$ from the perspective of "pure QM" would probably be modeled as 13 different bodies interacting (2 protons and 2 electrons for $H_2$ and 1 nucleus and 8 electrons for Oxygen)...when you get 2 of those in there, that's 26 bodies you're looking at. Solving the Schroedinger equation for 26 (coupled) bodies simultaneously even numerically seems very difficult to me.
    – enumaris
    2 hours ago










  • People do this, but usually just for approaches along some symmetry directions, I think. That is difficult enough. To do the complete quantum chemistry for all possible approaches (not just straight lines) - I doubt whether that is attempted.
    – Pieter
    2 hours ago














up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












I'm a software developer interested in learning quantum mechanics to simulate chemistry. I know it's a very difficult topic, so I consider it a long term "someday/maybe" goal, and I’m not sure it's even possible.



I've listened to some video lectures in introductory QM courses like Susskind's and Brant Carlson's youtube videos, and the content so far seems far removed from computing "chemistry" things like electron orbital shapes or bond energies.



Is it possible to simulate the time evolution of something "simple" like the colliding and reacting molecules in: $2H_2 + 0_2 rightarrow 2H_20$? I mean simulate from first principles - pure quantum mechanics without any estimates like "pretend this atom is a mass on a spring", etc.



If it is possible, what is a rough outline of the college courses required to go from point A to B - from intro quantum mechanics to the understanding needed to write code for that simulation? (Maybe it's less about the physics and more about tricky computational techniques of estimating solutions to equations?)










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 1




    I have no definitive answer, just an observation that $H_2 O$ from the perspective of "pure QM" would probably be modeled as 13 different bodies interacting (2 protons and 2 electrons for $H_2$ and 1 nucleus and 8 electrons for Oxygen)...when you get 2 of those in there, that's 26 bodies you're looking at. Solving the Schroedinger equation for 26 (coupled) bodies simultaneously even numerically seems very difficult to me.
    – enumaris
    2 hours ago










  • People do this, but usually just for approaches along some symmetry directions, I think. That is difficult enough. To do the complete quantum chemistry for all possible approaches (not just straight lines) - I doubt whether that is attempted.
    – Pieter
    2 hours ago












up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1





I'm a software developer interested in learning quantum mechanics to simulate chemistry. I know it's a very difficult topic, so I consider it a long term "someday/maybe" goal, and I’m not sure it's even possible.



I've listened to some video lectures in introductory QM courses like Susskind's and Brant Carlson's youtube videos, and the content so far seems far removed from computing "chemistry" things like electron orbital shapes or bond energies.



Is it possible to simulate the time evolution of something "simple" like the colliding and reacting molecules in: $2H_2 + 0_2 rightarrow 2H_20$? I mean simulate from first principles - pure quantum mechanics without any estimates like "pretend this atom is a mass on a spring", etc.



If it is possible, what is a rough outline of the college courses required to go from point A to B - from intro quantum mechanics to the understanding needed to write code for that simulation? (Maybe it's less about the physics and more about tricky computational techniques of estimating solutions to equations?)










share|cite|improve this question















I'm a software developer interested in learning quantum mechanics to simulate chemistry. I know it's a very difficult topic, so I consider it a long term "someday/maybe" goal, and I’m not sure it's even possible.



I've listened to some video lectures in introductory QM courses like Susskind's and Brant Carlson's youtube videos, and the content so far seems far removed from computing "chemistry" things like electron orbital shapes or bond energies.



Is it possible to simulate the time evolution of something "simple" like the colliding and reacting molecules in: $2H_2 + 0_2 rightarrow 2H_20$? I mean simulate from first principles - pure quantum mechanics without any estimates like "pretend this atom is a mass on a spring", etc.



If it is possible, what is a rough outline of the college courses required to go from point A to B - from intro quantum mechanics to the understanding needed to write code for that simulation? (Maybe it's less about the physics and more about tricky computational techniques of estimating solutions to equations?)







quantum-mechanics computational-physics education software






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edited 2 hours ago









Qmechanic♦

97.9k121651056




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asked 2 hours ago









Rob N

1967




1967







  • 1




    I have no definitive answer, just an observation that $H_2 O$ from the perspective of "pure QM" would probably be modeled as 13 different bodies interacting (2 protons and 2 electrons for $H_2$ and 1 nucleus and 8 electrons for Oxygen)...when you get 2 of those in there, that's 26 bodies you're looking at. Solving the Schroedinger equation for 26 (coupled) bodies simultaneously even numerically seems very difficult to me.
    – enumaris
    2 hours ago










  • People do this, but usually just for approaches along some symmetry directions, I think. That is difficult enough. To do the complete quantum chemistry for all possible approaches (not just straight lines) - I doubt whether that is attempted.
    – Pieter
    2 hours ago












  • 1




    I have no definitive answer, just an observation that $H_2 O$ from the perspective of "pure QM" would probably be modeled as 13 different bodies interacting (2 protons and 2 electrons for $H_2$ and 1 nucleus and 8 electrons for Oxygen)...when you get 2 of those in there, that's 26 bodies you're looking at. Solving the Schroedinger equation for 26 (coupled) bodies simultaneously even numerically seems very difficult to me.
    – enumaris
    2 hours ago










  • People do this, but usually just for approaches along some symmetry directions, I think. That is difficult enough. To do the complete quantum chemistry for all possible approaches (not just straight lines) - I doubt whether that is attempted.
    – Pieter
    2 hours ago







1




1




I have no definitive answer, just an observation that $H_2 O$ from the perspective of "pure QM" would probably be modeled as 13 different bodies interacting (2 protons and 2 electrons for $H_2$ and 1 nucleus and 8 electrons for Oxygen)...when you get 2 of those in there, that's 26 bodies you're looking at. Solving the Schroedinger equation for 26 (coupled) bodies simultaneously even numerically seems very difficult to me.
– enumaris
2 hours ago




I have no definitive answer, just an observation that $H_2 O$ from the perspective of "pure QM" would probably be modeled as 13 different bodies interacting (2 protons and 2 electrons for $H_2$ and 1 nucleus and 8 electrons for Oxygen)...when you get 2 of those in there, that's 26 bodies you're looking at. Solving the Schroedinger equation for 26 (coupled) bodies simultaneously even numerically seems very difficult to me.
– enumaris
2 hours ago












People do this, but usually just for approaches along some symmetry directions, I think. That is difficult enough. To do the complete quantum chemistry for all possible approaches (not just straight lines) - I doubt whether that is attempted.
– Pieter
2 hours ago




People do this, but usually just for approaches along some symmetry directions, I think. That is difficult enough. To do the complete quantum chemistry for all possible approaches (not just straight lines) - I doubt whether that is attempted.
– Pieter
2 hours ago










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Yes, this is possible -- I used to study it in undergrad, actually. I would say that the prerequisites are probably a few semesters of quantum mechanics -- enough to learn concepts like Born-Oppenheimer approximations, perturbation theory, and angular momentum theory. A course specifically in atomic and molecular physics would also help.



As you say, and as a comment points out, the computational requirements for exactly solution of the Schrodinger equation for even something comparatively simple can be immense. There's plenty of computational effort on trying to simply this problem, and for something as large as what you propose I doubt you'd see "exact from first principles" treatment; approximations likely enter it to it. (My numerical work in undergrad would take days to run, for reactions like F + H2.)



The key word is "reactive scattering" -- the process of two molecules colliding and then a different configuration emerging. This seems like a decent review paper, if you can access it.






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    Yes, it is possible. Working with pure quantum mechanics means you will need to solve the many-body Schrödinger equation, which has no exact solution, so some approximation must be done numerically. Different approaches into solving this equations gave birth to different numerical methods, and some methods are more efficient for solving specific problems, like the one you mentioned.



    You may want to look for the terms: Ab initio, First Principles methods, computational chemistry, Density Functional Theory. I have even seen some dedicated courses on youtube.



    Some popular softwares used in this field are: Gaussian, VASP, GAMESS, DMol, Quantum Espresso.






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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      Yes, this is possible -- I used to study it in undergrad, actually. I would say that the prerequisites are probably a few semesters of quantum mechanics -- enough to learn concepts like Born-Oppenheimer approximations, perturbation theory, and angular momentum theory. A course specifically in atomic and molecular physics would also help.



      As you say, and as a comment points out, the computational requirements for exactly solution of the Schrodinger equation for even something comparatively simple can be immense. There's plenty of computational effort on trying to simply this problem, and for something as large as what you propose I doubt you'd see "exact from first principles" treatment; approximations likely enter it to it. (My numerical work in undergrad would take days to run, for reactions like F + H2.)



      The key word is "reactive scattering" -- the process of two molecules colliding and then a different configuration emerging. This seems like a decent review paper, if you can access it.






      share|cite|improve this answer


























        up vote
        2
        down vote













        Yes, this is possible -- I used to study it in undergrad, actually. I would say that the prerequisites are probably a few semesters of quantum mechanics -- enough to learn concepts like Born-Oppenheimer approximations, perturbation theory, and angular momentum theory. A course specifically in atomic and molecular physics would also help.



        As you say, and as a comment points out, the computational requirements for exactly solution of the Schrodinger equation for even something comparatively simple can be immense. There's plenty of computational effort on trying to simply this problem, and for something as large as what you propose I doubt you'd see "exact from first principles" treatment; approximations likely enter it to it. (My numerical work in undergrad would take days to run, for reactions like F + H2.)



        The key word is "reactive scattering" -- the process of two molecules colliding and then a different configuration emerging. This seems like a decent review paper, if you can access it.






        share|cite|improve this answer
























          up vote
          2
          down vote










          up vote
          2
          down vote









          Yes, this is possible -- I used to study it in undergrad, actually. I would say that the prerequisites are probably a few semesters of quantum mechanics -- enough to learn concepts like Born-Oppenheimer approximations, perturbation theory, and angular momentum theory. A course specifically in atomic and molecular physics would also help.



          As you say, and as a comment points out, the computational requirements for exactly solution of the Schrodinger equation for even something comparatively simple can be immense. There's plenty of computational effort on trying to simply this problem, and for something as large as what you propose I doubt you'd see "exact from first principles" treatment; approximations likely enter it to it. (My numerical work in undergrad would take days to run, for reactions like F + H2.)



          The key word is "reactive scattering" -- the process of two molecules colliding and then a different configuration emerging. This seems like a decent review paper, if you can access it.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Yes, this is possible -- I used to study it in undergrad, actually. I would say that the prerequisites are probably a few semesters of quantum mechanics -- enough to learn concepts like Born-Oppenheimer approximations, perturbation theory, and angular momentum theory. A course specifically in atomic and molecular physics would also help.



          As you say, and as a comment points out, the computational requirements for exactly solution of the Schrodinger equation for even something comparatively simple can be immense. There's plenty of computational effort on trying to simply this problem, and for something as large as what you propose I doubt you'd see "exact from first principles" treatment; approximations likely enter it to it. (My numerical work in undergrad would take days to run, for reactions like F + H2.)



          The key word is "reactive scattering" -- the process of two molecules colliding and then a different configuration emerging. This seems like a decent review paper, if you can access it.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 2 hours ago

























          answered 2 hours ago









          zeldredge

          8,17731925




          8,17731925




















              up vote
              2
              down vote













              Yes, it is possible. Working with pure quantum mechanics means you will need to solve the many-body Schrödinger equation, which has no exact solution, so some approximation must be done numerically. Different approaches into solving this equations gave birth to different numerical methods, and some methods are more efficient for solving specific problems, like the one you mentioned.



              You may want to look for the terms: Ab initio, First Principles methods, computational chemistry, Density Functional Theory. I have even seen some dedicated courses on youtube.



              Some popular softwares used in this field are: Gaussian, VASP, GAMESS, DMol, Quantum Espresso.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                Yes, it is possible. Working with pure quantum mechanics means you will need to solve the many-body Schrödinger equation, which has no exact solution, so some approximation must be done numerically. Different approaches into solving this equations gave birth to different numerical methods, and some methods are more efficient for solving specific problems, like the one you mentioned.



                You may want to look for the terms: Ab initio, First Principles methods, computational chemistry, Density Functional Theory. I have even seen some dedicated courses on youtube.



                Some popular softwares used in this field are: Gaussian, VASP, GAMESS, DMol, Quantum Espresso.






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote









                  Yes, it is possible. Working with pure quantum mechanics means you will need to solve the many-body Schrödinger equation, which has no exact solution, so some approximation must be done numerically. Different approaches into solving this equations gave birth to different numerical methods, and some methods are more efficient for solving specific problems, like the one you mentioned.



                  You may want to look for the terms: Ab initio, First Principles methods, computational chemistry, Density Functional Theory. I have even seen some dedicated courses on youtube.



                  Some popular softwares used in this field are: Gaussian, VASP, GAMESS, DMol, Quantum Espresso.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  Yes, it is possible. Working with pure quantum mechanics means you will need to solve the many-body Schrödinger equation, which has no exact solution, so some approximation must be done numerically. Different approaches into solving this equations gave birth to different numerical methods, and some methods are more efficient for solving specific problems, like the one you mentioned.



                  You may want to look for the terms: Ab initio, First Principles methods, computational chemistry, Density Functional Theory. I have even seen some dedicated courses on youtube.



                  Some popular softwares used in this field are: Gaussian, VASP, GAMESS, DMol, Quantum Espresso.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 2 hours ago









                  user190081

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