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Deus Ex Machina — How to identify?
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I got a critique today from someone and they told me I was using a "Deus Ex Machina". I did some poking around on here, and I question if it really is one.
I found a link -- and it says within the first 20-25% I can get away with it. But does that mean for 20-22% of the chapter or the novel? Mine happens in the middle of the second chapter.
My Possible Deus Ex Machina:
My character is searching for something. When she finds what she's looking for, it's pretty clear that she's waiting on someone. She finally gets fed-up and carries on without him only to find herself in a spot of trouble. He arrives in the nick of time to help her.
fantasy deus-ex-machina
asked 2 hours ago
Sierra
133
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Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
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I got a critique today from someone and they told me I was using a "Deus Ex Machina". I did some poking around on here, and I question if it really is one.
I found a link -- and it says within the first 20-25% I can get away with it. But does that mean for 20-22% of the chapter or the novel? Mine happens in the middle of the second chapter.
My Possible Deus Ex Machina:
My character is searching for something. When she finds what she's looking for, it's pretty clear that she's waiting on someone. She finally gets fed-up and carries on without him only to find herself in a spot of trouble. He arrives in the nick of time to help her.
fantasy deus-ex-machina
asked 2 hours ago
Sierra
133
New contributor
Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Definitely related, possible duplicate: How do you make random chance/happenstance not seem like deus ex machina?
– Michael Kjörling♦
2 hours ago
That answer on the other question has an explanation for his estimate of 25%. Re-read WHY is it a problem in the first place (an inciting incident that gets her deeper in trouble verses having a convenient "win" handed to her which she had no agency in herself)
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
But is it still happenstance if we know she's waiting on the person who does help her?
– Sierra
1 hour ago
@wetcircuit I get it, but the critique seemed so certain it was a Deus Ex Machina. I don't see it being that way (maybe I just don't want to). The scene was written to show her partner was supposed to be there, but her impatience compelled her to start without him. Her impatience lands her in trouble. He finally arrives when she's about to resort to desperate tactics. It is in the start of her first chapter. I don't know. D:
– Sierra
1 hour ago
Not sure how your story goes. Maybe your reader just thought it was too convenient. If there is something she can do (make a noise, start a fire, try to escape and they start shooting) then it may be more logical the friend was in the area and heard the commotion? Readers feel cheated if the hero appears to be saved without doing anything on their own…. At least make her half-escape or some action of hers attracts attention. Like "Murphy's Law" coincidences are fine (even expected) if they work against the hero, but feels like cheating if they help.
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I got a critique today from someone and they told me I was using a "Deus Ex Machina". I did some poking around on here, and I question if it really is one.
I found a link -- and it says within the first 20-25% I can get away with it. But does that mean for 20-22% of the chapter or the novel? Mine happens in the middle of the second chapter.
My Possible Deus Ex Machina:
My character is searching for something. When she finds what she's looking for, it's pretty clear that she's waiting on someone. She finally gets fed-up and carries on without him only to find herself in a spot of trouble. He arrives in the nick of time to help her.
fantasy deus-ex-machina
asked 2 hours ago
Sierra
133
New contributor
Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I got a critique today from someone and they told me I was using a "Deus Ex Machina". I did some poking around on here, and I question if it really is one.
I found a link -- and it says within the first 20-25% I can get away with it. But does that mean for 20-22% of the chapter or the novel? Mine happens in the middle of the second chapter.
My Possible Deus Ex Machina:
My character is searching for something. When she finds what she's looking for, it's pretty clear that she's waiting on someone. She finally gets fed-up and carries on without him only to find herself in a spot of trouble. He arrives in the nick of time to help her.
fantasy deus-ex-machina
fantasy deus-ex-machina
asked 2 hours ago
Sierra
133
New contributor
Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Sierra
133
New contributor
Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Sierra
133
New contributor
Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 hours ago
Sierra
133
asked 2 hours ago
Sierra
133
133
New contributor
Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Sierra is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
Definitely related, possible duplicate: How do you make random chance/happenstance not seem like deus ex machina?
– Michael Kjörling♦
2 hours ago
That answer on the other question has an explanation for his estimate of 25%. Re-read WHY is it a problem in the first place (an inciting incident that gets her deeper in trouble verses having a convenient "win" handed to her which she had no agency in herself)
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
But is it still happenstance if we know she's waiting on the person who does help her?
– Sierra
1 hour ago
@wetcircuit I get it, but the critique seemed so certain it was a Deus Ex Machina. I don't see it being that way (maybe I just don't want to). The scene was written to show her partner was supposed to be there, but her impatience compelled her to start without him. Her impatience lands her in trouble. He finally arrives when she's about to resort to desperate tactics. It is in the start of her first chapter. I don't know. D:
– Sierra
1 hour ago
Not sure how your story goes. Maybe your reader just thought it was too convenient. If there is something she can do (make a noise, start a fire, try to escape and they start shooting) then it may be more logical the friend was in the area and heard the commotion? Readers feel cheated if the hero appears to be saved without doing anything on their own…. At least make her half-escape or some action of hers attracts attention. Like "Murphy's Law" coincidences are fine (even expected) if they work against the hero, but feels like cheating if they help.
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
1
Definitely related, possible duplicate: How do you make random chance/happenstance not seem like deus ex machina?
– Michael Kjörling♦
2 hours ago
That answer on the other question has an explanation for his estimate of 25%. Re-read WHY is it a problem in the first place (an inciting incident that gets her deeper in trouble verses having a convenient "win" handed to her which she had no agency in herself)
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
But is it still happenstance if we know she's waiting on the person who does help her?
– Sierra
1 hour ago
@wetcircuit I get it, but the critique seemed so certain it was a Deus Ex Machina. I don't see it being that way (maybe I just don't want to). The scene was written to show her partner was supposed to be there, but her impatience compelled her to start without him. Her impatience lands her in trouble. He finally arrives when she's about to resort to desperate tactics. It is in the start of her first chapter. I don't know. D:
– Sierra
1 hour ago
Not sure how your story goes. Maybe your reader just thought it was too convenient. If there is something she can do (make a noise, start a fire, try to escape and they start shooting) then it may be more logical the friend was in the area and heard the commotion? Readers feel cheated if the hero appears to be saved without doing anything on their own…. At least make her half-escape or some action of hers attracts attention. Like "Murphy's Law" coincidences are fine (even expected) if they work against the hero, but feels like cheating if they help.
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
1
1
Definitely related, possible duplicate: How do you make random chance/happenstance not seem like deus ex machina?
– Michael Kjörling♦
2 hours ago
Definitely related, possible duplicate: How do you make random chance/happenstance not seem like deus ex machina?
– Michael Kjörling♦
2 hours ago
That answer on the other question has an explanation for his estimate of 25%. Re-read WHY is it a problem in the first place (an inciting incident that gets her deeper in trouble verses having a convenient "win" handed to her which she had no agency in herself)
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
That answer on the other question has an explanation for his estimate of 25%. Re-read WHY is it a problem in the first place (an inciting incident that gets her deeper in trouble verses having a convenient "win" handed to her which she had no agency in herself)
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
But is it still happenstance if we know she's waiting on the person who does help her?
– Sierra
1 hour ago
But is it still happenstance if we know she's waiting on the person who does help her?
– Sierra
1 hour ago
@wetcircuit I get it, but the critique seemed so certain it was a Deus Ex Machina. I don't see it being that way (maybe I just don't want to). The scene was written to show her partner was supposed to be there, but her impatience compelled her to start without him. Her impatience lands her in trouble. He finally arrives when she's about to resort to desperate tactics. It is in the start of her first chapter. I don't know. D:
– Sierra
1 hour ago
@wetcircuit I get it, but the critique seemed so certain it was a Deus Ex Machina. I don't see it being that way (maybe I just don't want to). The scene was written to show her partner was supposed to be there, but her impatience compelled her to start without him. Her impatience lands her in trouble. He finally arrives when she's about to resort to desperate tactics. It is in the start of her first chapter. I don't know. D:
– Sierra
1 hour ago
Not sure how your story goes. Maybe your reader just thought it was too convenient. If there is something she can do (make a noise, start a fire, try to escape and they start shooting) then it may be more logical the friend was in the area and heard the commotion? Readers feel cheated if the hero appears to be saved without doing anything on their own…. At least make her half-escape or some action of hers attracts attention. Like "Murphy's Law" coincidences are fine (even expected) if they work against the hero, but feels like cheating if they help.
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
Not sure how your story goes. Maybe your reader just thought it was too convenient. If there is something she can do (make a noise, start a fire, try to escape and they start shooting) then it may be more logical the friend was in the area and heard the commotion? Readers feel cheated if the hero appears to be saved without doing anything on their own…. At least make her half-escape or some action of hers attracts attention. Like "Murphy's Law" coincidences are fine (even expected) if they work against the hero, but feels like cheating if they help.
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
There is a difference between plot building and plot resolution.
First 20-25% of the book is almost always the part where plot is still under construction. In there, unusual happenstances can be explained by showing that this is why we have this plot in the fist place (ex. someone wins the lottery, and then we see what comes afterward).
On the other hand, towards the end of the book we have most of the conflicts well underway, and unusual happenstances will be serving to solve those conflicts (ex. someone's got into a lot of financial trouble, and then wins the lottery). That what is called "Deus Ex Machina".
In your case it indeed may look like "Deus Ex Machina" - but you need to see if you use this event to resolve the conflicts, or to exacerbate the plot.
answered 1 hour ago
Alexander
2,765110
Okey dokey. Thank you for the response. I'll do some thinking. :)
– Sierra
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The issue with Deus Ex Machina (DEM), regardless of when it occurs, is when you have led the reader (by whatever means) to expect your character to solve her own problem, and she gets a win by the gods doing her a favor out of nowhere.
Readers will accept undeserved bad luck, but they expect the hero to be an agent of good luck, not the recipient of it, or at least overcoming bad luck.
If she gets herself in trouble through recklessness or stupidity, we don't expect her to be saved by a stranger. Your story would be better if she struggled out of her trouble on her own, taking risks that paid off, and frees herself from danger but ends up muddied, in torn clothing -- THEN the guy she's looking for shows up, just MISSING the nick of time. Now she has another obstacle to overcome, meeting the one she needs looking like a filthy stinking vagabond.
Your hero can BE the DEM showing up just in the nick of time to save somebody in distress, or can BE the DEM as the "chosen one". But your hero should always be an active agent (and proactive agent) in their OWN fate, don't ever give them an obvious break (I mean a break the reader will know is a break).
Stories are very much about heroes overcoming obstacles by dint of their own will, skill, determination, action and risk taking. That is why they are inspiring or entertaining. We like to see people win when they aren't lucky and have to struggle every step up the mountain. So no free rides for the heroes, not directly or indirectly. That's what the modern meaning of DEM is; a gimme or free ride or lucky break the hero did not earn.
answered 15 mins ago
Amadeus
39.7k246130
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
There is a difference between plot building and plot resolution.
First 20-25% of the book is almost always the part where plot is still under construction. In there, unusual happenstances can be explained by showing that this is why we have this plot in the fist place (ex. someone wins the lottery, and then we see what comes afterward).
On the other hand, towards the end of the book we have most of the conflicts well underway, and unusual happenstances will be serving to solve those conflicts (ex. someone's got into a lot of financial trouble, and then wins the lottery). That what is called "Deus Ex Machina".
In your case it indeed may look like "Deus Ex Machina" - but you need to see if you use this event to resolve the conflicts, or to exacerbate the plot.
answered 1 hour ago
Alexander
2,765110
Okey dokey. Thank you for the response. I'll do some thinking. :)
– Sierra
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
There is a difference between plot building and plot resolution.
First 20-25% of the book is almost always the part where plot is still under construction. In there, unusual happenstances can be explained by showing that this is why we have this plot in the fist place (ex. someone wins the lottery, and then we see what comes afterward).
On the other hand, towards the end of the book we have most of the conflicts well underway, and unusual happenstances will be serving to solve those conflicts (ex. someone's got into a lot of financial trouble, and then wins the lottery). That what is called "Deus Ex Machina".
In your case it indeed may look like "Deus Ex Machina" - but you need to see if you use this event to resolve the conflicts, or to exacerbate the plot.
answered 1 hour ago
Alexander
2,765110
Okey dokey. Thank you for the response. I'll do some thinking. :)
– Sierra
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
There is a difference between plot building and plot resolution.
First 20-25% of the book is almost always the part where plot is still under construction. In there, unusual happenstances can be explained by showing that this is why we have this plot in the fist place (ex. someone wins the lottery, and then we see what comes afterward).
On the other hand, towards the end of the book we have most of the conflicts well underway, and unusual happenstances will be serving to solve those conflicts (ex. someone's got into a lot of financial trouble, and then wins the lottery). That what is called "Deus Ex Machina".
In your case it indeed may look like "Deus Ex Machina" - but you need to see if you use this event to resolve the conflicts, or to exacerbate the plot.
answered 1 hour ago
Alexander
2,765110
There is a difference between plot building and plot resolution.
First 20-25% of the book is almost always the part where plot is still under construction. In there, unusual happenstances can be explained by showing that this is why we have this plot in the fist place (ex. someone wins the lottery, and then we see what comes afterward).
On the other hand, towards the end of the book we have most of the conflicts well underway, and unusual happenstances will be serving to solve those conflicts (ex. someone's got into a lot of financial trouble, and then wins the lottery). That what is called "Deus Ex Machina".
In your case it indeed may look like "Deus Ex Machina" - but you need to see if you use this event to resolve the conflicts, or to exacerbate the plot.
answered 1 hour ago
Alexander
2,765110
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
Alexander
2,765110
answered 1 hour ago
Alexander
2,765110
answered 1 hour ago
Alexander
2,765110
2,765110
Okey dokey. Thank you for the response. I'll do some thinking. :)
– Sierra
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
Okey dokey. Thank you for the response. I'll do some thinking. :)
– Sierra
1 hour ago
Okey dokey. Thank you for the response. I'll do some thinking. :)
– Sierra
1 hour ago
Okey dokey. Thank you for the response. I'll do some thinking. :)
– Sierra
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The issue with Deus Ex Machina (DEM), regardless of when it occurs, is when you have led the reader (by whatever means) to expect your character to solve her own problem, and she gets a win by the gods doing her a favor out of nowhere.
Readers will accept undeserved bad luck, but they expect the hero to be an agent of good luck, not the recipient of it, or at least overcoming bad luck.
If she gets herself in trouble through recklessness or stupidity, we don't expect her to be saved by a stranger. Your story would be better if she struggled out of her trouble on her own, taking risks that paid off, and frees herself from danger but ends up muddied, in torn clothing -- THEN the guy she's looking for shows up, just MISSING the nick of time. Now she has another obstacle to overcome, meeting the one she needs looking like a filthy stinking vagabond.
Your hero can BE the DEM showing up just in the nick of time to save somebody in distress, or can BE the DEM as the "chosen one". But your hero should always be an active agent (and proactive agent) in their OWN fate, don't ever give them an obvious break (I mean a break the reader will know is a break).
Stories are very much about heroes overcoming obstacles by dint of their own will, skill, determination, action and risk taking. That is why they are inspiring or entertaining. We like to see people win when they aren't lucky and have to struggle every step up the mountain. So no free rides for the heroes, not directly or indirectly. That's what the modern meaning of DEM is; a gimme or free ride or lucky break the hero did not earn.
answered 15 mins ago
Amadeus
39.7k246130
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
The issue with Deus Ex Machina (DEM), regardless of when it occurs, is when you have led the reader (by whatever means) to expect your character to solve her own problem, and she gets a win by the gods doing her a favor out of nowhere.
Readers will accept undeserved bad luck, but they expect the hero to be an agent of good luck, not the recipient of it, or at least overcoming bad luck.
If she gets herself in trouble through recklessness or stupidity, we don't expect her to be saved by a stranger. Your story would be better if she struggled out of her trouble on her own, taking risks that paid off, and frees herself from danger but ends up muddied, in torn clothing -- THEN the guy she's looking for shows up, just MISSING the nick of time. Now she has another obstacle to overcome, meeting the one she needs looking like a filthy stinking vagabond.
Your hero can BE the DEM showing up just in the nick of time to save somebody in distress, or can BE the DEM as the "chosen one". But your hero should always be an active agent (and proactive agent) in their OWN fate, don't ever give them an obvious break (I mean a break the reader will know is a break).
Stories are very much about heroes overcoming obstacles by dint of their own will, skill, determination, action and risk taking. That is why they are inspiring or entertaining. We like to see people win when they aren't lucky and have to struggle every step up the mountain. So no free rides for the heroes, not directly or indirectly. That's what the modern meaning of DEM is; a gimme or free ride or lucky break the hero did not earn.
answered 15 mins ago
Amadeus
39.7k246130
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The issue with Deus Ex Machina (DEM), regardless of when it occurs, is when you have led the reader (by whatever means) to expect your character to solve her own problem, and she gets a win by the gods doing her a favor out of nowhere.
Readers will accept undeserved bad luck, but they expect the hero to be an agent of good luck, not the recipient of it, or at least overcoming bad luck.
If she gets herself in trouble through recklessness or stupidity, we don't expect her to be saved by a stranger. Your story would be better if she struggled out of her trouble on her own, taking risks that paid off, and frees herself from danger but ends up muddied, in torn clothing -- THEN the guy she's looking for shows up, just MISSING the nick of time. Now she has another obstacle to overcome, meeting the one she needs looking like a filthy stinking vagabond.
Your hero can BE the DEM showing up just in the nick of time to save somebody in distress, or can BE the DEM as the "chosen one". But your hero should always be an active agent (and proactive agent) in their OWN fate, don't ever give them an obvious break (I mean a break the reader will know is a break).
Stories are very much about heroes overcoming obstacles by dint of their own will, skill, determination, action and risk taking. That is why they are inspiring or entertaining. We like to see people win when they aren't lucky and have to struggle every step up the mountain. So no free rides for the heroes, not directly or indirectly. That's what the modern meaning of DEM is; a gimme or free ride or lucky break the hero did not earn.
answered 15 mins ago
Amadeus
39.7k246130
The issue with Deus Ex Machina (DEM), regardless of when it occurs, is when you have led the reader (by whatever means) to expect your character to solve her own problem, and she gets a win by the gods doing her a favor out of nowhere.
Readers will accept undeserved bad luck, but they expect the hero to be an agent of good luck, not the recipient of it, or at least overcoming bad luck.
If she gets herself in trouble through recklessness or stupidity, we don't expect her to be saved by a stranger. Your story would be better if she struggled out of her trouble on her own, taking risks that paid off, and frees herself from danger but ends up muddied, in torn clothing -- THEN the guy she's looking for shows up, just MISSING the nick of time. Now she has another obstacle to overcome, meeting the one she needs looking like a filthy stinking vagabond.
Your hero can BE the DEM showing up just in the nick of time to save somebody in distress, or can BE the DEM as the "chosen one". But your hero should always be an active agent (and proactive agent) in their OWN fate, don't ever give them an obvious break (I mean a break the reader will know is a break).
Stories are very much about heroes overcoming obstacles by dint of their own will, skill, determination, action and risk taking. That is why they are inspiring or entertaining. We like to see people win when they aren't lucky and have to struggle every step up the mountain. So no free rides for the heroes, not directly or indirectly. That's what the modern meaning of DEM is; a gimme or free ride or lucky break the hero did not earn.
answered 15 mins ago
Amadeus
39.7k246130
answered 15 mins ago
Amadeus
39.7k246130
answered 15 mins ago
Amadeus
39.7k246130
answered 15 mins ago
Amadeus
39.7k246130
39.7k246130
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
Sierra is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sierra is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sierra is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sierra is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
Definitely related, possible duplicate: How do you make random chance/happenstance not seem like deus ex machina?
– Michael Kjörling♦
2 hours ago
That answer on the other question has an explanation for his estimate of 25%. Re-read WHY is it a problem in the first place (an inciting incident that gets her deeper in trouble verses having a convenient "win" handed to her which she had no agency in herself)
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago
But is it still happenstance if we know she's waiting on the person who does help her?
– Sierra
1 hour ago
@wetcircuit I get it, but the critique seemed so certain it was a Deus Ex Machina. I don't see it being that way (maybe I just don't want to). The scene was written to show her partner was supposed to be there, but her impatience compelled her to start without him. Her impatience lands her in trouble. He finally arrives when she's about to resort to desperate tactics. It is in the start of her first chapter. I don't know. D:
– Sierra
1 hour ago
Not sure how your story goes. Maybe your reader just thought it was too convenient. If there is something she can do (make a noise, start a fire, try to escape and they start shooting) then it may be more logical the friend was in the area and heard the commotion? Readers feel cheated if the hero appears to be saved without doing anything on their own…. At least make her half-escape or some action of hers attracts attention. Like "Murphy's Law" coincidences are fine (even expected) if they work against the hero, but feels like cheating if they help.
– wetcircuit
1 hour ago