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What would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt and they put it in the ocean?
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After my Ranger died, I talked to my DM about if the wizard I create next can eventually become a Lich and betray the party. He said he liked the idea and would try to implement it when I'm a level 17 wizard.
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die? Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery? Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
I just want to know what I can and can't get away with.
dnd-5e
edited 39 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
asked 57 mins ago
Twiggy
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
After my Ranger died, I talked to my DM about if the wizard I create next can eventually become a Lich and betray the party. He said he liked the idea and would try to implement it when I'm a level 17 wizard.
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die? Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery? Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
I just want to know what I can and can't get away with.
dnd-5e
edited 39 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
asked 57 mins ago
Twiggy
93
New contributor
Twiggy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Welcome to the stack.
– Grosscol
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
After my Ranger died, I talked to my DM about if the wizard I create next can eventually become a Lich and betray the party. He said he liked the idea and would try to implement it when I'm a level 17 wizard.
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die? Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery? Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
I just want to know what I can and can't get away with.
dnd-5e
edited 39 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
asked 57 mins ago
Twiggy
93
New contributor
Twiggy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
After my Ranger died, I talked to my DM about if the wizard I create next can eventually become a Lich and betray the party. He said he liked the idea and would try to implement it when I'm a level 17 wizard.
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die? Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery? Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
I just want to know what I can and can't get away with.
dnd-5e
dnd-5e
edited 39 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
asked 57 mins ago
Twiggy
93
New contributor
Twiggy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 39 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
asked 57 mins ago
Twiggy
93
New contributor
Twiggy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 39 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
edited 39 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
edited 39 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
39.4k5192300
asked 57 mins ago
Twiggy
93
New contributor
Twiggy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 57 mins ago
Twiggy
93
asked 57 mins ago
Twiggy
93
93
New contributor
Twiggy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Twiggy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Twiggy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Welcome to the stack.
– Grosscol
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Welcome to the stack.
– Grosscol
46 mins ago
Welcome to the stack.
– Grosscol
46 mins ago
Welcome to the stack.
– Grosscol
46 mins ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
You are unable to create a phylactery purely out of a grain of salt
According to the Monster Manual entry for litch:
A phylactery is traditionally an amulet in the shape of a small box, but it can take the form of any item possessing an interior space into which arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic are scribed in silver.
Grains of salt or sugar do not possess any interior space much less one in which runes can be inscribed. Thus, they cannot be used to make a phylactery. Also, even if you got a chunk of salt large enough it still has to have runes scribed in silver which means the phylactery can't be purely salt.
Destroying a phylactery should not be easy
Destroying a lich’s phylactery is no easy task and often requires a special ritual, item, or weapon.ÂÂ
If you somehow did end up with a qualifying phylactery made mostly out of salt (either by DM fiat or constructing a qualifying one out of the material), it is unlikely that simply submerging it in water would be enough to destroy it. Phylacteries are powerful magic items and would likely not be able to be destroyed by the simple act of submersion in water.
So what happens if you submerge a salt phylactery in water? It is going to be up to you and your DM to decide in the end. The rules just aren't detailed enough to cover this.
answered 47 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
Beat me to it, +1 Have a ref link: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/mm/monsters-l#Lich
– guildsbounty
47 mins ago
1
Another particular point being that you cannot possibly create a phylactery out of pure sugar or salt, even by starting with a largish crystal and carving it, because it explicitly requires runes scribed in silver.
– Ben Barden
34 mins ago
@BenBarden why not have silver inlaid into the crystal? Wrecking the crystal leaves loose runes lying about, but the whole of the thing would still be destroyed.
– Grosscol
30 mins ago
@Grosscol my point is more that once you include silver runes, it's no longer pure salt/sugar.
– Ben Barden
21 mins ago
@BenBarden I see. That makes sense. Could make the runes out of silver chloride! Better undead through modern chemistry.
– Grosscol
18 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
0
down vote
Salt or Sugar Cube Phylactery
tl;dr the sugar or salt crystal is destroyed leaving the lich without a phylactery or the phylactery is at the mercy of the ocean.
Destroyed by Dissolving
Tossing a salt or sugar crystal into water dissolves it and destroys the crystal. If the phylactery was the crystal, then it is destroyed. The lich does not die immediately, but it is then without a phylactery. This means the lich will not rejuvenate.
Magically not Destroyed
If the crystal retains its cohesion by magical means, then it would be just like any other non-dissolving crystal in the ocean. This would mean that the lich reappears near it when it rejuvenates, and that the phylactery is available to be found/destroyed/consumed by anything that it encounters.
answered 47 mins ago
Grosscol
4,624839
How is the litch creating a salt phylactery in this situation?
– Rubiksmoose
36 mins ago
A piece of salt could of any side including being very large. Salt crystals grow to enormous proportions in some places. You could carve an entire sarcophagus out of one with hieroglyphics and everything.
– Grosscol
33 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die?
Assuming the salt-based phylactory was allowed, then this should count as destroying the phylactory, and the lich would not be able to reform its body when it was killed.
When you smash something, the parts of it all still exist. Scientifically, when you burn something, the ashes still contain the same atoms of the thing. If a dissolved phylactory counted as still existing, then those scenarios should still count too, and it would be an odd outcome.
Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery?
It would be unusual, but not restricted by RAW. I guess it would be carved rock salt or similar. Here is some rock salt jewellery - it would not take much to add an interior space to that.
Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
If the goal is to have a character that is near impossible to be permanently killed, it is not that game-breaking at level 17, because there are many ways to come back by that point.
However given that you want to set the character up as a villain at the end and have the other PCs fight them, it seems a little cheap, and in my opinion bends the rules too much to count as fun for anyone involved but you.
You might be able to find some clever way to hide find or move the phylactory that allows the character to come back once or twice extra before being destroyed permanently. Look through some spell options, or talk to your DM about this. The goal should ideally be to make the betrayal fun and epic for you all . . . no need to look for rule bending ideas when you have the DM on side with the idea. Maybe get some powerful minions assigned etc.
answered 33 mins ago
Neil Slater
11.1k33667
Do liches die in 5e when the phylactery is destroyed?
– Grosscol
32 mins ago
1
@Grosscol: They are unable to re-form after dying I believe, which is I think the point of the question - to be able to reform anywhere near the ocean, and need the ocean to be destroyed to prevent it. I will double-check and correct the text.
– Neil Slater
30 mins ago
I agree that they'd be unable to reform as per the stat block, but was unaware that they died immediately.
– Grosscol
29 mins ago
@Grosscol you are correct. I think that is what the OP is asking in any case - whether the character would not count as having a phylactery when it was needed (i.e. when character killed), not that they would immediately die.
– Neil Slater
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
7
down vote
You are unable to create a phylactery purely out of a grain of salt
According to the Monster Manual entry for litch:
A phylactery is traditionally an amulet in the shape of a small box, but it can take the form of any item possessing an interior space into which arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic are scribed in silver.
Grains of salt or sugar do not possess any interior space much less one in which runes can be inscribed. Thus, they cannot be used to make a phylactery. Also, even if you got a chunk of salt large enough it still has to have runes scribed in silver which means the phylactery can't be purely salt.
Destroying a phylactery should not be easy
Destroying a lich’s phylactery is no easy task and often requires a special ritual, item, or weapon.ÂÂ
If you somehow did end up with a qualifying phylactery made mostly out of salt (either by DM fiat or constructing a qualifying one out of the material), it is unlikely that simply submerging it in water would be enough to destroy it. Phylacteries are powerful magic items and would likely not be able to be destroyed by the simple act of submersion in water.
So what happens if you submerge a salt phylactery in water? It is going to be up to you and your DM to decide in the end. The rules just aren't detailed enough to cover this.
answered 47 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
Beat me to it, +1 Have a ref link: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/mm/monsters-l#Lich
– guildsbounty
47 mins ago
1
Another particular point being that you cannot possibly create a phylactery out of pure sugar or salt, even by starting with a largish crystal and carving it, because it explicitly requires runes scribed in silver.
– Ben Barden
34 mins ago
@BenBarden why not have silver inlaid into the crystal? Wrecking the crystal leaves loose runes lying about, but the whole of the thing would still be destroyed.
– Grosscol
30 mins ago
@Grosscol my point is more that once you include silver runes, it's no longer pure salt/sugar.
– Ben Barden
21 mins ago
@BenBarden I see. That makes sense. Could make the runes out of silver chloride! Better undead through modern chemistry.
– Grosscol
18 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
7
down vote
You are unable to create a phylactery purely out of a grain of salt
According to the Monster Manual entry for litch:
A phylactery is traditionally an amulet in the shape of a small box, but it can take the form of any item possessing an interior space into which arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic are scribed in silver.
Grains of salt or sugar do not possess any interior space much less one in which runes can be inscribed. Thus, they cannot be used to make a phylactery. Also, even if you got a chunk of salt large enough it still has to have runes scribed in silver which means the phylactery can't be purely salt.
Destroying a phylactery should not be easy
Destroying a lich’s phylactery is no easy task and often requires a special ritual, item, or weapon.ÂÂ
If you somehow did end up with a qualifying phylactery made mostly out of salt (either by DM fiat or constructing a qualifying one out of the material), it is unlikely that simply submerging it in water would be enough to destroy it. Phylacteries are powerful magic items and would likely not be able to be destroyed by the simple act of submersion in water.
So what happens if you submerge a salt phylactery in water? It is going to be up to you and your DM to decide in the end. The rules just aren't detailed enough to cover this.
answered 47 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
Beat me to it, +1 Have a ref link: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/mm/monsters-l#Lich
– guildsbounty
47 mins ago
1
Another particular point being that you cannot possibly create a phylactery out of pure sugar or salt, even by starting with a largish crystal and carving it, because it explicitly requires runes scribed in silver.
– Ben Barden
34 mins ago
@BenBarden why not have silver inlaid into the crystal? Wrecking the crystal leaves loose runes lying about, but the whole of the thing would still be destroyed.
– Grosscol
30 mins ago
@Grosscol my point is more that once you include silver runes, it's no longer pure salt/sugar.
– Ben Barden
21 mins ago
@BenBarden I see. That makes sense. Could make the runes out of silver chloride! Better undead through modern chemistry.
– Grosscol
18 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
You are unable to create a phylactery purely out of a grain of salt
According to the Monster Manual entry for litch:
A phylactery is traditionally an amulet in the shape of a small box, but it can take the form of any item possessing an interior space into which arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic are scribed in silver.
Grains of salt or sugar do not possess any interior space much less one in which runes can be inscribed. Thus, they cannot be used to make a phylactery. Also, even if you got a chunk of salt large enough it still has to have runes scribed in silver which means the phylactery can't be purely salt.
Destroying a phylactery should not be easy
Destroying a lich’s phylactery is no easy task and often requires a special ritual, item, or weapon.ÂÂ
If you somehow did end up with a qualifying phylactery made mostly out of salt (either by DM fiat or constructing a qualifying one out of the material), it is unlikely that simply submerging it in water would be enough to destroy it. Phylacteries are powerful magic items and would likely not be able to be destroyed by the simple act of submersion in water.
So what happens if you submerge a salt phylactery in water? It is going to be up to you and your DM to decide in the end. The rules just aren't detailed enough to cover this.
answered 47 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
You are unable to create a phylactery purely out of a grain of salt
According to the Monster Manual entry for litch:
A phylactery is traditionally an amulet in the shape of a small box, but it can take the form of any item possessing an interior space into which arcane sigils of naming, binding, immortality, and dark magic are scribed in silver.
Grains of salt or sugar do not possess any interior space much less one in which runes can be inscribed. Thus, they cannot be used to make a phylactery. Also, even if you got a chunk of salt large enough it still has to have runes scribed in silver which means the phylactery can't be purely salt.
Destroying a phylactery should not be easy
Destroying a lich’s phylactery is no easy task and often requires a special ritual, item, or weapon.ÂÂ
If you somehow did end up with a qualifying phylactery made mostly out of salt (either by DM fiat or constructing a qualifying one out of the material), it is unlikely that simply submerging it in water would be enough to destroy it. Phylacteries are powerful magic items and would likely not be able to be destroyed by the simple act of submersion in water.
So what happens if you submerge a salt phylactery in water? It is going to be up to you and your DM to decide in the end. The rules just aren't detailed enough to cover this.
answered 47 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
edited 1 min ago
answered 47 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
answered 47 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
answered 47 mins ago
Rubiksmoose
39.4k5192300
39.4k5192300
Beat me to it, +1 Have a ref link: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/mm/monsters-l#Lich
– guildsbounty
47 mins ago
1
Another particular point being that you cannot possibly create a phylactery out of pure sugar or salt, even by starting with a largish crystal and carving it, because it explicitly requires runes scribed in silver.
– Ben Barden
34 mins ago
@BenBarden why not have silver inlaid into the crystal? Wrecking the crystal leaves loose runes lying about, but the whole of the thing would still be destroyed.
– Grosscol
30 mins ago
@Grosscol my point is more that once you include silver runes, it's no longer pure salt/sugar.
– Ben Barden
21 mins ago
@BenBarden I see. That makes sense. Could make the runes out of silver chloride! Better undead through modern chemistry.
– Grosscol
18 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Beat me to it, +1 Have a ref link: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/mm/monsters-l#Lich
– guildsbounty
47 mins ago
1
Another particular point being that you cannot possibly create a phylactery out of pure sugar or salt, even by starting with a largish crystal and carving it, because it explicitly requires runes scribed in silver.
– Ben Barden
34 mins ago
@BenBarden why not have silver inlaid into the crystal? Wrecking the crystal leaves loose runes lying about, but the whole of the thing would still be destroyed.
– Grosscol
30 mins ago
@Grosscol my point is more that once you include silver runes, it's no longer pure salt/sugar.
– Ben Barden
21 mins ago
@BenBarden I see. That makes sense. Could make the runes out of silver chloride! Better undead through modern chemistry.
– Grosscol
18 mins ago
Beat me to it, +1 Have a ref link: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/mm/monsters-l#Lich
– guildsbounty
47 mins ago
Beat me to it, +1 Have a ref link: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/mm/monsters-l#Lich
– guildsbounty
47 mins ago
1
1
Another particular point being that you cannot possibly create a phylactery out of pure sugar or salt, even by starting with a largish crystal and carving it, because it explicitly requires runes scribed in silver.
– Ben Barden
34 mins ago
Another particular point being that you cannot possibly create a phylactery out of pure sugar or salt, even by starting with a largish crystal and carving it, because it explicitly requires runes scribed in silver.
– Ben Barden
34 mins ago
@BenBarden why not have silver inlaid into the crystal? Wrecking the crystal leaves loose runes lying about, but the whole of the thing would still be destroyed.
– Grosscol
30 mins ago
@BenBarden why not have silver inlaid into the crystal? Wrecking the crystal leaves loose runes lying about, but the whole of the thing would still be destroyed.
– Grosscol
30 mins ago
@Grosscol my point is more that once you include silver runes, it's no longer pure salt/sugar.
– Ben Barden
21 mins ago
@Grosscol my point is more that once you include silver runes, it's no longer pure salt/sugar.
– Ben Barden
21 mins ago
@BenBarden I see. That makes sense. Could make the runes out of silver chloride! Better undead through modern chemistry.
– Grosscol
18 mins ago
@BenBarden I see. That makes sense. Could make the runes out of silver chloride! Better undead through modern chemistry.
– Grosscol
18 mins ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
0
down vote
Salt or Sugar Cube Phylactery
tl;dr the sugar or salt crystal is destroyed leaving the lich without a phylactery or the phylactery is at the mercy of the ocean.
Destroyed by Dissolving
Tossing a salt or sugar crystal into water dissolves it and destroys the crystal. If the phylactery was the crystal, then it is destroyed. The lich does not die immediately, but it is then without a phylactery. This means the lich will not rejuvenate.
Magically not Destroyed
If the crystal retains its cohesion by magical means, then it would be just like any other non-dissolving crystal in the ocean. This would mean that the lich reappears near it when it rejuvenates, and that the phylactery is available to be found/destroyed/consumed by anything that it encounters.
answered 47 mins ago
Grosscol
4,624839
How is the litch creating a salt phylactery in this situation?
– Rubiksmoose
36 mins ago
A piece of salt could of any side including being very large. Salt crystals grow to enormous proportions in some places. You could carve an entire sarcophagus out of one with hieroglyphics and everything.
– Grosscol
33 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Salt or Sugar Cube Phylactery
tl;dr the sugar or salt crystal is destroyed leaving the lich without a phylactery or the phylactery is at the mercy of the ocean.
Destroyed by Dissolving
Tossing a salt or sugar crystal into water dissolves it and destroys the crystal. If the phylactery was the crystal, then it is destroyed. The lich does not die immediately, but it is then without a phylactery. This means the lich will not rejuvenate.
Magically not Destroyed
If the crystal retains its cohesion by magical means, then it would be just like any other non-dissolving crystal in the ocean. This would mean that the lich reappears near it when it rejuvenates, and that the phylactery is available to be found/destroyed/consumed by anything that it encounters.
answered 47 mins ago
Grosscol
4,624839
How is the litch creating a salt phylactery in this situation?
– Rubiksmoose
36 mins ago
A piece of salt could of any side including being very large. Salt crystals grow to enormous proportions in some places. You could carve an entire sarcophagus out of one with hieroglyphics and everything.
– Grosscol
33 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Salt or Sugar Cube Phylactery
tl;dr the sugar or salt crystal is destroyed leaving the lich without a phylactery or the phylactery is at the mercy of the ocean.
Destroyed by Dissolving
Tossing a salt or sugar crystal into water dissolves it and destroys the crystal. If the phylactery was the crystal, then it is destroyed. The lich does not die immediately, but it is then without a phylactery. This means the lich will not rejuvenate.
Magically not Destroyed
If the crystal retains its cohesion by magical means, then it would be just like any other non-dissolving crystal in the ocean. This would mean that the lich reappears near it when it rejuvenates, and that the phylactery is available to be found/destroyed/consumed by anything that it encounters.
answered 47 mins ago
Grosscol
4,624839
Salt or Sugar Cube Phylactery
tl;dr the sugar or salt crystal is destroyed leaving the lich without a phylactery or the phylactery is at the mercy of the ocean.
Destroyed by Dissolving
Tossing a salt or sugar crystal into water dissolves it and destroys the crystal. If the phylactery was the crystal, then it is destroyed. The lich does not die immediately, but it is then without a phylactery. This means the lich will not rejuvenate.
Magically not Destroyed
If the crystal retains its cohesion by magical means, then it would be just like any other non-dissolving crystal in the ocean. This would mean that the lich reappears near it when it rejuvenates, and that the phylactery is available to be found/destroyed/consumed by anything that it encounters.
answered 47 mins ago
Grosscol
4,624839
edited 41 mins ago
answered 47 mins ago
Grosscol
4,624839
answered 47 mins ago
Grosscol
4,624839
answered 47 mins ago
Grosscol
4,624839
4,624839
How is the litch creating a salt phylactery in this situation?
– Rubiksmoose
36 mins ago
A piece of salt could of any side including being very large. Salt crystals grow to enormous proportions in some places. You could carve an entire sarcophagus out of one with hieroglyphics and everything.
– Grosscol
33 mins ago
add a comment |Â
How is the litch creating a salt phylactery in this situation?
– Rubiksmoose
36 mins ago
A piece of salt could of any side including being very large. Salt crystals grow to enormous proportions in some places. You could carve an entire sarcophagus out of one with hieroglyphics and everything.
– Grosscol
33 mins ago
How is the litch creating a salt phylactery in this situation?
– Rubiksmoose
36 mins ago
How is the litch creating a salt phylactery in this situation?
– Rubiksmoose
36 mins ago
A piece of salt could of any side including being very large. Salt crystals grow to enormous proportions in some places. You could carve an entire sarcophagus out of one with hieroglyphics and everything.
– Grosscol
33 mins ago
A piece of salt could of any side including being very large. Salt crystals grow to enormous proportions in some places. You could carve an entire sarcophagus out of one with hieroglyphics and everything.
– Grosscol
33 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die?
Assuming the salt-based phylactory was allowed, then this should count as destroying the phylactory, and the lich would not be able to reform its body when it was killed.
When you smash something, the parts of it all still exist. Scientifically, when you burn something, the ashes still contain the same atoms of the thing. If a dissolved phylactory counted as still existing, then those scenarios should still count too, and it would be an odd outcome.
Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery?
It would be unusual, but not restricted by RAW. I guess it would be carved rock salt or similar. Here is some rock salt jewellery - it would not take much to add an interior space to that.
Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
If the goal is to have a character that is near impossible to be permanently killed, it is not that game-breaking at level 17, because there are many ways to come back by that point.
However given that you want to set the character up as a villain at the end and have the other PCs fight them, it seems a little cheap, and in my opinion bends the rules too much to count as fun for anyone involved but you.
You might be able to find some clever way to hide find or move the phylactory that allows the character to come back once or twice extra before being destroyed permanently. Look through some spell options, or talk to your DM about this. The goal should ideally be to make the betrayal fun and epic for you all . . . no need to look for rule bending ideas when you have the DM on side with the idea. Maybe get some powerful minions assigned etc.
answered 33 mins ago
Neil Slater
11.1k33667
Do liches die in 5e when the phylactery is destroyed?
– Grosscol
32 mins ago
1
@Grosscol: They are unable to re-form after dying I believe, which is I think the point of the question - to be able to reform anywhere near the ocean, and need the ocean to be destroyed to prevent it. I will double-check and correct the text.
– Neil Slater
30 mins ago
I agree that they'd be unable to reform as per the stat block, but was unaware that they died immediately.
– Grosscol
29 mins ago
@Grosscol you are correct. I think that is what the OP is asking in any case - whether the character would not count as having a phylactery when it was needed (i.e. when character killed), not that they would immediately die.
– Neil Slater
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die?
Assuming the salt-based phylactory was allowed, then this should count as destroying the phylactory, and the lich would not be able to reform its body when it was killed.
When you smash something, the parts of it all still exist. Scientifically, when you burn something, the ashes still contain the same atoms of the thing. If a dissolved phylactory counted as still existing, then those scenarios should still count too, and it would be an odd outcome.
Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery?
It would be unusual, but not restricted by RAW. I guess it would be carved rock salt or similar. Here is some rock salt jewellery - it would not take much to add an interior space to that.
Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
If the goal is to have a character that is near impossible to be permanently killed, it is not that game-breaking at level 17, because there are many ways to come back by that point.
However given that you want to set the character up as a villain at the end and have the other PCs fight them, it seems a little cheap, and in my opinion bends the rules too much to count as fun for anyone involved but you.
You might be able to find some clever way to hide find or move the phylactory that allows the character to come back once or twice extra before being destroyed permanently. Look through some spell options, or talk to your DM about this. The goal should ideally be to make the betrayal fun and epic for you all . . . no need to look for rule bending ideas when you have the DM on side with the idea. Maybe get some powerful minions assigned etc.
answered 33 mins ago
Neil Slater
11.1k33667
Do liches die in 5e when the phylactery is destroyed?
– Grosscol
32 mins ago
1
@Grosscol: They are unable to re-form after dying I believe, which is I think the point of the question - to be able to reform anywhere near the ocean, and need the ocean to be destroyed to prevent it. I will double-check and correct the text.
– Neil Slater
30 mins ago
I agree that they'd be unable to reform as per the stat block, but was unaware that they died immediately.
– Grosscol
29 mins ago
@Grosscol you are correct. I think that is what the OP is asking in any case - whether the character would not count as having a phylactery when it was needed (i.e. when character killed), not that they would immediately die.
– Neil Slater
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die?
Assuming the salt-based phylactory was allowed, then this should count as destroying the phylactory, and the lich would not be able to reform its body when it was killed.
When you smash something, the parts of it all still exist. Scientifically, when you burn something, the ashes still contain the same atoms of the thing. If a dissolved phylactory counted as still existing, then those scenarios should still count too, and it would be an odd outcome.
Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery?
It would be unusual, but not restricted by RAW. I guess it would be carved rock salt or similar. Here is some rock salt jewellery - it would not take much to add an interior space to that.
Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
If the goal is to have a character that is near impossible to be permanently killed, it is not that game-breaking at level 17, because there are many ways to come back by that point.
However given that you want to set the character up as a villain at the end and have the other PCs fight them, it seems a little cheap, and in my opinion bends the rules too much to count as fun for anyone involved but you.
You might be able to find some clever way to hide find or move the phylactory that allows the character to come back once or twice extra before being destroyed permanently. Look through some spell options, or talk to your DM about this. The goal should ideally be to make the betrayal fun and epic for you all . . . no need to look for rule bending ideas when you have the DM on side with the idea. Maybe get some powerful minions assigned etc.
answered 33 mins ago
Neil Slater
11.1k33667
I was wondering what would happen if a Lich's phylactery is a piece of salt or sugar and it dissolved in the ocean. Would the ocean become the phylactery or would the Lich die?
Assuming the salt-based phylactory was allowed, then this should count as destroying the phylactory, and the lich would not be able to reform its body when it was killed.
When you smash something, the parts of it all still exist. Scientifically, when you burn something, the ashes still contain the same atoms of the thing. If a dissolved phylactory counted as still existing, then those scenarios should still count too, and it would be an odd outcome.
Would I even be able to make a piece of salt a phylactery?
It would be unusual, but not restricted by RAW. I guess it would be carved rock salt or similar. Here is some rock salt jewellery - it would not take much to add an interior space to that.
Even if I can do it, would it be too game-breaking?
If the goal is to have a character that is near impossible to be permanently killed, it is not that game-breaking at level 17, because there are many ways to come back by that point.
However given that you want to set the character up as a villain at the end and have the other PCs fight them, it seems a little cheap, and in my opinion bends the rules too much to count as fun for anyone involved but you.
You might be able to find some clever way to hide find or move the phylactory that allows the character to come back once or twice extra before being destroyed permanently. Look through some spell options, or talk to your DM about this. The goal should ideally be to make the betrayal fun and epic for you all . . . no need to look for rule bending ideas when you have the DM on side with the idea. Maybe get some powerful minions assigned etc.
answered 33 mins ago
Neil Slater
11.1k33667
edited 28 mins ago
answered 33 mins ago
Neil Slater
11.1k33667
answered 33 mins ago
Neil Slater
11.1k33667
answered 33 mins ago
Neil Slater
11.1k33667
11.1k33667
Do liches die in 5e when the phylactery is destroyed?
– Grosscol
32 mins ago
1
@Grosscol: They are unable to re-form after dying I believe, which is I think the point of the question - to be able to reform anywhere near the ocean, and need the ocean to be destroyed to prevent it. I will double-check and correct the text.
– Neil Slater
30 mins ago
I agree that they'd be unable to reform as per the stat block, but was unaware that they died immediately.
– Grosscol
29 mins ago
@Grosscol you are correct. I think that is what the OP is asking in any case - whether the character would not count as having a phylactery when it was needed (i.e. when character killed), not that they would immediately die.
– Neil Slater
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Do liches die in 5e when the phylactery is destroyed?
– Grosscol
32 mins ago
1
@Grosscol: They are unable to re-form after dying I believe, which is I think the point of the question - to be able to reform anywhere near the ocean, and need the ocean to be destroyed to prevent it. I will double-check and correct the text.
– Neil Slater
30 mins ago
I agree that they'd be unable to reform as per the stat block, but was unaware that they died immediately.
– Grosscol
29 mins ago
@Grosscol you are correct. I think that is what the OP is asking in any case - whether the character would not count as having a phylactery when it was needed (i.e. when character killed), not that they would immediately die.
– Neil Slater
27 mins ago
Do liches die in 5e when the phylactery is destroyed?
– Grosscol
32 mins ago
Do liches die in 5e when the phylactery is destroyed?
– Grosscol
32 mins ago
1
1
@Grosscol: They are unable to re-form after dying I believe, which is I think the point of the question - to be able to reform anywhere near the ocean, and need the ocean to be destroyed to prevent it. I will double-check and correct the text.
– Neil Slater
30 mins ago
@Grosscol: They are unable to re-form after dying I believe, which is I think the point of the question - to be able to reform anywhere near the ocean, and need the ocean to be destroyed to prevent it. I will double-check and correct the text.
– Neil Slater
30 mins ago
I agree that they'd be unable to reform as per the stat block, but was unaware that they died immediately.
– Grosscol
29 mins ago
I agree that they'd be unable to reform as per the stat block, but was unaware that they died immediately.
– Grosscol
29 mins ago
@Grosscol you are correct. I think that is what the OP is asking in any case - whether the character would not count as having a phylactery when it was needed (i.e. when character killed), not that they would immediately die.
– Neil Slater
27 mins ago
@Grosscol you are correct. I think that is what the OP is asking in any case - whether the character would not count as having a phylactery when it was needed (i.e. when character killed), not that they would immediately die.
– Neil Slater
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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– Grosscol
46 mins ago