Mixing
Are there any truly 'unrecoverable' situations?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I'm starting my quest to obtain a PPL this weekend. So I guess this question is contextualised around light aircraft like the Piper Tomahawk / Cessna, although it certainly would be interesting to get an answer that covers airliners too.
Baring a catastrophic technical failure, such as the wings falling off, a fire, or the horizontal stabiliser failing - is any [pilot caused] situation truly 'unrecoverable'?
I watched this video of a student accidentally starting a spin. Naturally, he looked terrified, but the instructor took over and recovered quickly and easily. This made me wonder, is there anything a student can do that the instructor will not be able to recover from? (obviously smashing the plane into the tarmac on approach isn't really something that can be helped, so I'm only asking about events at altitude here).
safety spins flight-school
asked 1 hour ago
Cloud
2,16211236
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I'm starting my quest to obtain a PPL this weekend. So I guess this question is contextualised around light aircraft like the Piper Tomahawk / Cessna, although it certainly would be interesting to get an answer that covers airliners too.
Baring a catastrophic technical failure, such as the wings falling off, a fire, or the horizontal stabiliser failing - is any [pilot caused] situation truly 'unrecoverable'?
I watched this video of a student accidentally starting a spin. Naturally, he looked terrified, but the instructor took over and recovered quickly and easily. This made me wonder, is there anything a student can do that the instructor will not be able to recover from? (obviously smashing the plane into the tarmac on approach isn't really something that can be helped, so I'm only asking about events at altitude here).
safety spins flight-school
asked 1 hour ago
Cloud
2,16211236
1
The T-tail on the Traumahawk means it could "deep stall", where the elevator gets blanked by the wing and loses effectiveness, which is unusual in a trainer, however it's not unrecoverable, just more difficult. It's also pretty rare.
– GdD
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I'm starting my quest to obtain a PPL this weekend. So I guess this question is contextualised around light aircraft like the Piper Tomahawk / Cessna, although it certainly would be interesting to get an answer that covers airliners too.
Baring a catastrophic technical failure, such as the wings falling off, a fire, or the horizontal stabiliser failing - is any [pilot caused] situation truly 'unrecoverable'?
I watched this video of a student accidentally starting a spin. Naturally, he looked terrified, but the instructor took over and recovered quickly and easily. This made me wonder, is there anything a student can do that the instructor will not be able to recover from? (obviously smashing the plane into the tarmac on approach isn't really something that can be helped, so I'm only asking about events at altitude here).
safety spins flight-school
asked 1 hour ago
Cloud
2,16211236
I'm starting my quest to obtain a PPL this weekend. So I guess this question is contextualised around light aircraft like the Piper Tomahawk / Cessna, although it certainly would be interesting to get an answer that covers airliners too.
Baring a catastrophic technical failure, such as the wings falling off, a fire, or the horizontal stabiliser failing - is any [pilot caused] situation truly 'unrecoverable'?
I watched this video of a student accidentally starting a spin. Naturally, he looked terrified, but the instructor took over and recovered quickly and easily. This made me wonder, is there anything a student can do that the instructor will not be able to recover from? (obviously smashing the plane into the tarmac on approach isn't really something that can be helped, so I'm only asking about events at altitude here).
safety spins flight-school
safety spins flight-school
asked 1 hour ago
Cloud
2,16211236
asked 1 hour ago
Cloud
2,16211236
asked 1 hour ago
Cloud
2,16211236
asked 1 hour ago
Cloud
2,16211236
asked 1 hour ago
Cloud
2,16211236
2,16211236
1
The T-tail on the Traumahawk means it could "deep stall", where the elevator gets blanked by the wing and loses effectiveness, which is unusual in a trainer, however it's not unrecoverable, just more difficult. It's also pretty rare.
– GdD
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
The T-tail on the Traumahawk means it could "deep stall", where the elevator gets blanked by the wing and loses effectiveness, which is unusual in a trainer, however it's not unrecoverable, just more difficult. It's also pretty rare.
– GdD
27 mins ago
1
1
The T-tail on the Traumahawk means it could "deep stall", where the elevator gets blanked by the wing and loses effectiveness, which is unusual in a trainer, however it's not unrecoverable, just more difficult. It's also pretty rare.
– GdD
27 mins ago
The T-tail on the Traumahawk means it could "deep stall", where the elevator gets blanked by the wing and loses effectiveness, which is unusual in a trainer, however it's not unrecoverable, just more difficult. It's also pretty rare.
– GdD
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
One of the more common causes of crash and fatality is a low altitude stall-spin. A spin, in a modern aircraft, isn't of itself deadly -- with many designs, all you have to do it let go of the controls, and the aircraft will unstall and let you simply fly out of the resulting spiral dive (if you don't wait too long and go past Vne, anyway).
If you get into a stall when low and slow, however, and due to control positions or pilot error initiate a spin, you're likely to hit the ground before you can recover. Since ground impact in these cases is usually near vertical, nose down, and partially inverted, pilot survival is hardly assured.
Avoiding this kind of fatal mistake is why you practice stalls (with plenty of altitude under you) during flight training -- so you can recognize the conditions that bring on a stall, the aircraft behavior that announces it, and learn how to manage the airplane after the stall occurs to avoid, or intentionally initiate and recover from a spin.
This is (or ought to be) a part of the check ride before flying an unfamiliar type, as well. Many older designs are less stall friendly than modern (say, post-1960) aircraft -- and if you learned to fly in a Cessna 152, you won't ever have experienced an unintended spin (because the type is difficult to spin even intentionally, and won't do it without large control inputs). Stall a 1930s light plane at 100 feet, however, and you're likely to fail the "walk away" test.
answered 1 hour ago
Zeiss Ikon
2,345214
Unfortunately, my flight school only houses Terrorhawks. You know, the ones they designed to be easy to spin and won't recover unless you input the right controls. Naturally, I'm apprehensive about my lessons, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make sure I never stall or spin in the first place. I certainly don't fancy practicing them. Thanks for the answer by the way.
– Cloud
1 hour ago
2
Flight schools use Tomahawks because it's very difficult to teach spin avoidance and recovery in a trainer that's effectively spin-proof. You need to learn how to enter and recover from a spin, as well as how to manage a stall in an airplane that will spin. Otherwise, regardless of requirements to learn to spin and recover to get your license, you'll be in serious trouble the first time something goes badly in an aircraft that isn't spin-proof.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
1
I might suggest that you can learn useful things about stalls, spins, and spin recovery by flying a radio control "advanced trainer" type. These models fly very much like light aircraft -- but if you crash, you just have to repair or replace a model airframe, nobody gets hurt.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
2
There's no such thing as spin-proof. Don't worry about it unduly, learn the lessons and you'll be fine. Get in the habit of watching your airspeed and balance like a hawk when climbing or on approach, and taking positive action quickly if airspeed gets low or your balance is out. Don't get fixated on it, just make sure to come back to it every few seconds.
– GdD
36 mins ago
1
Of course you're afraid of stalls & spins, @Cloud, you're supposed to be! But, as stated in the 3rd paragraph, that's why they have you practice it - so you know the signs when one begins to happen and you can take the proper corrective action before you end up dead. I'm pretty sure this won't be in your first lesson, either.
– FreeMan
25 mins ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
I'm going to make an assumption that solo student flights are in scope here, in which case I would say that flight into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) would quite often be unrecoverable. Instrument flight is a completely different discipline, without training it takes mere moments to become disoriented and lose control. If you do ever get into IMC glue your eyes on your attitude indicator and do a gentle 180 degree turn to exit while maintaining altitude, do not trust your inner ear!
Another potentially unrecoverable situation would be to fly under steadily lowering cloud until it puts you into a situation where landing safely is not possible. Being trapped between overcast and rising terrain with no landing spots will not end well. Scud-running is just stupid with all the high tension lines and cell towers that have sprung out of the ground.
These are preventable situations. Sometimes people succumb to get-there-itis or peer pressure and convince themselves the clouds are thin, or they're bound to raise in a bit, after all the TAF says so. Good flight planning and sticking to your limits will keep you out of that kind of trouble.
answered 11 mins ago
GdD
28.4k277121
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
A stall at low altitude would be one unrecoverable situation, but hopefully the instructor would be alert enough to intervene in time to prevent this occurring. Spins are normally recoverable in light aircraft, but this is not always so in fast jets. The F84F Thunderstreak was one example of an early jet fighter in which a spin was considered unrecoverable.
answered 1 hour ago
J. Southworth
58216
Is it even possible to spin a large jet, i.e. a 737?
– Cloud
1 hour ago
Few if any commercial aircraft designed after about 1960 will spin unintentionally, but many can be intentionally spun. Flaps zero, throttle idle, full aft yoke, full rudder, and she'll spin, at least a bit. Same way you spin a "spin proof" trainer.
– Zeiss Ikon
20 mins ago
In a Cirrus, spins are also considered "unrecoverable". The Cirrus manual's procedure for "recovering" from a spin is to pull the CAPS lever.
– Ron Beyer
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
One of the more common causes of crash and fatality is a low altitude stall-spin. A spin, in a modern aircraft, isn't of itself deadly -- with many designs, all you have to do it let go of the controls, and the aircraft will unstall and let you simply fly out of the resulting spiral dive (if you don't wait too long and go past Vne, anyway).
If you get into a stall when low and slow, however, and due to control positions or pilot error initiate a spin, you're likely to hit the ground before you can recover. Since ground impact in these cases is usually near vertical, nose down, and partially inverted, pilot survival is hardly assured.
Avoiding this kind of fatal mistake is why you practice stalls (with plenty of altitude under you) during flight training -- so you can recognize the conditions that bring on a stall, the aircraft behavior that announces it, and learn how to manage the airplane after the stall occurs to avoid, or intentionally initiate and recover from a spin.
This is (or ought to be) a part of the check ride before flying an unfamiliar type, as well. Many older designs are less stall friendly than modern (say, post-1960) aircraft -- and if you learned to fly in a Cessna 152, you won't ever have experienced an unintended spin (because the type is difficult to spin even intentionally, and won't do it without large control inputs). Stall a 1930s light plane at 100 feet, however, and you're likely to fail the "walk away" test.
answered 1 hour ago
Zeiss Ikon
2,345214
Unfortunately, my flight school only houses Terrorhawks. You know, the ones they designed to be easy to spin and won't recover unless you input the right controls. Naturally, I'm apprehensive about my lessons, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make sure I never stall or spin in the first place. I certainly don't fancy practicing them. Thanks for the answer by the way.
– Cloud
1 hour ago
2
Flight schools use Tomahawks because it's very difficult to teach spin avoidance and recovery in a trainer that's effectively spin-proof. You need to learn how to enter and recover from a spin, as well as how to manage a stall in an airplane that will spin. Otherwise, regardless of requirements to learn to spin and recover to get your license, you'll be in serious trouble the first time something goes badly in an aircraft that isn't spin-proof.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
1
I might suggest that you can learn useful things about stalls, spins, and spin recovery by flying a radio control "advanced trainer" type. These models fly very much like light aircraft -- but if you crash, you just have to repair or replace a model airframe, nobody gets hurt.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
2
There's no such thing as spin-proof. Don't worry about it unduly, learn the lessons and you'll be fine. Get in the habit of watching your airspeed and balance like a hawk when climbing or on approach, and taking positive action quickly if airspeed gets low or your balance is out. Don't get fixated on it, just make sure to come back to it every few seconds.
– GdD
36 mins ago
1
Of course you're afraid of stalls & spins, @Cloud, you're supposed to be! But, as stated in the 3rd paragraph, that's why they have you practice it - so you know the signs when one begins to happen and you can take the proper corrective action before you end up dead. I'm pretty sure this won't be in your first lesson, either.
– FreeMan
25 mins ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
One of the more common causes of crash and fatality is a low altitude stall-spin. A spin, in a modern aircraft, isn't of itself deadly -- with many designs, all you have to do it let go of the controls, and the aircraft will unstall and let you simply fly out of the resulting spiral dive (if you don't wait too long and go past Vne, anyway).
If you get into a stall when low and slow, however, and due to control positions or pilot error initiate a spin, you're likely to hit the ground before you can recover. Since ground impact in these cases is usually near vertical, nose down, and partially inverted, pilot survival is hardly assured.
Avoiding this kind of fatal mistake is why you practice stalls (with plenty of altitude under you) during flight training -- so you can recognize the conditions that bring on a stall, the aircraft behavior that announces it, and learn how to manage the airplane after the stall occurs to avoid, or intentionally initiate and recover from a spin.
This is (or ought to be) a part of the check ride before flying an unfamiliar type, as well. Many older designs are less stall friendly than modern (say, post-1960) aircraft -- and if you learned to fly in a Cessna 152, you won't ever have experienced an unintended spin (because the type is difficult to spin even intentionally, and won't do it without large control inputs). Stall a 1930s light plane at 100 feet, however, and you're likely to fail the "walk away" test.
answered 1 hour ago
Zeiss Ikon
2,345214
Unfortunately, my flight school only houses Terrorhawks. You know, the ones they designed to be easy to spin and won't recover unless you input the right controls. Naturally, I'm apprehensive about my lessons, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make sure I never stall or spin in the first place. I certainly don't fancy practicing them. Thanks for the answer by the way.
– Cloud
1 hour ago
2
Flight schools use Tomahawks because it's very difficult to teach spin avoidance and recovery in a trainer that's effectively spin-proof. You need to learn how to enter and recover from a spin, as well as how to manage a stall in an airplane that will spin. Otherwise, regardless of requirements to learn to spin and recover to get your license, you'll be in serious trouble the first time something goes badly in an aircraft that isn't spin-proof.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
1
I might suggest that you can learn useful things about stalls, spins, and spin recovery by flying a radio control "advanced trainer" type. These models fly very much like light aircraft -- but if you crash, you just have to repair or replace a model airframe, nobody gets hurt.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
2
There's no such thing as spin-proof. Don't worry about it unduly, learn the lessons and you'll be fine. Get in the habit of watching your airspeed and balance like a hawk when climbing or on approach, and taking positive action quickly if airspeed gets low or your balance is out. Don't get fixated on it, just make sure to come back to it every few seconds.
– GdD
36 mins ago
1
Of course you're afraid of stalls & spins, @Cloud, you're supposed to be! But, as stated in the 3rd paragraph, that's why they have you practice it - so you know the signs when one begins to happen and you can take the proper corrective action before you end up dead. I'm pretty sure this won't be in your first lesson, either.
– FreeMan
25 mins ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
One of the more common causes of crash and fatality is a low altitude stall-spin. A spin, in a modern aircraft, isn't of itself deadly -- with many designs, all you have to do it let go of the controls, and the aircraft will unstall and let you simply fly out of the resulting spiral dive (if you don't wait too long and go past Vne, anyway).
If you get into a stall when low and slow, however, and due to control positions or pilot error initiate a spin, you're likely to hit the ground before you can recover. Since ground impact in these cases is usually near vertical, nose down, and partially inverted, pilot survival is hardly assured.
Avoiding this kind of fatal mistake is why you practice stalls (with plenty of altitude under you) during flight training -- so you can recognize the conditions that bring on a stall, the aircraft behavior that announces it, and learn how to manage the airplane after the stall occurs to avoid, or intentionally initiate and recover from a spin.
This is (or ought to be) a part of the check ride before flying an unfamiliar type, as well. Many older designs are less stall friendly than modern (say, post-1960) aircraft -- and if you learned to fly in a Cessna 152, you won't ever have experienced an unintended spin (because the type is difficult to spin even intentionally, and won't do it without large control inputs). Stall a 1930s light plane at 100 feet, however, and you're likely to fail the "walk away" test.
answered 1 hour ago
Zeiss Ikon
2,345214
One of the more common causes of crash and fatality is a low altitude stall-spin. A spin, in a modern aircraft, isn't of itself deadly -- with many designs, all you have to do it let go of the controls, and the aircraft will unstall and let you simply fly out of the resulting spiral dive (if you don't wait too long and go past Vne, anyway).
If you get into a stall when low and slow, however, and due to control positions or pilot error initiate a spin, you're likely to hit the ground before you can recover. Since ground impact in these cases is usually near vertical, nose down, and partially inverted, pilot survival is hardly assured.
Avoiding this kind of fatal mistake is why you practice stalls (with plenty of altitude under you) during flight training -- so you can recognize the conditions that bring on a stall, the aircraft behavior that announces it, and learn how to manage the airplane after the stall occurs to avoid, or intentionally initiate and recover from a spin.
This is (or ought to be) a part of the check ride before flying an unfamiliar type, as well. Many older designs are less stall friendly than modern (say, post-1960) aircraft -- and if you learned to fly in a Cessna 152, you won't ever have experienced an unintended spin (because the type is difficult to spin even intentionally, and won't do it without large control inputs). Stall a 1930s light plane at 100 feet, however, and you're likely to fail the "walk away" test.
answered 1 hour ago
Zeiss Ikon
2,345214
answered 1 hour ago
Zeiss Ikon
2,345214
answered 1 hour ago
Zeiss Ikon
2,345214
answered 1 hour ago
Zeiss Ikon
2,345214
2,345214
Unfortunately, my flight school only houses Terrorhawks. You know, the ones they designed to be easy to spin and won't recover unless you input the right controls. Naturally, I'm apprehensive about my lessons, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make sure I never stall or spin in the first place. I certainly don't fancy practicing them. Thanks for the answer by the way.
– Cloud
1 hour ago
2
Flight schools use Tomahawks because it's very difficult to teach spin avoidance and recovery in a trainer that's effectively spin-proof. You need to learn how to enter and recover from a spin, as well as how to manage a stall in an airplane that will spin. Otherwise, regardless of requirements to learn to spin and recover to get your license, you'll be in serious trouble the first time something goes badly in an aircraft that isn't spin-proof.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
1
I might suggest that you can learn useful things about stalls, spins, and spin recovery by flying a radio control "advanced trainer" type. These models fly very much like light aircraft -- but if you crash, you just have to repair or replace a model airframe, nobody gets hurt.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
2
There's no such thing as spin-proof. Don't worry about it unduly, learn the lessons and you'll be fine. Get in the habit of watching your airspeed and balance like a hawk when climbing or on approach, and taking positive action quickly if airspeed gets low or your balance is out. Don't get fixated on it, just make sure to come back to it every few seconds.
– GdD
36 mins ago
1
Of course you're afraid of stalls & spins, @Cloud, you're supposed to be! But, as stated in the 3rd paragraph, that's why they have you practice it - so you know the signs when one begins to happen and you can take the proper corrective action before you end up dead. I'm pretty sure this won't be in your first lesson, either.
– FreeMan
25 mins ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
Unfortunately, my flight school only houses Terrorhawks. You know, the ones they designed to be easy to spin and won't recover unless you input the right controls. Naturally, I'm apprehensive about my lessons, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make sure I never stall or spin in the first place. I certainly don't fancy practicing them. Thanks for the answer by the way.
– Cloud
1 hour ago
2
Flight schools use Tomahawks because it's very difficult to teach spin avoidance and recovery in a trainer that's effectively spin-proof. You need to learn how to enter and recover from a spin, as well as how to manage a stall in an airplane that will spin. Otherwise, regardless of requirements to learn to spin and recover to get your license, you'll be in serious trouble the first time something goes badly in an aircraft that isn't spin-proof.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
1
I might suggest that you can learn useful things about stalls, spins, and spin recovery by flying a radio control "advanced trainer" type. These models fly very much like light aircraft -- but if you crash, you just have to repair or replace a model airframe, nobody gets hurt.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
2
There's no such thing as spin-proof. Don't worry about it unduly, learn the lessons and you'll be fine. Get in the habit of watching your airspeed and balance like a hawk when climbing or on approach, and taking positive action quickly if airspeed gets low or your balance is out. Don't get fixated on it, just make sure to come back to it every few seconds.
– GdD
36 mins ago
1
Of course you're afraid of stalls & spins, @Cloud, you're supposed to be! But, as stated in the 3rd paragraph, that's why they have you practice it - so you know the signs when one begins to happen and you can take the proper corrective action before you end up dead. I'm pretty sure this won't be in your first lesson, either.
– FreeMan
25 mins ago
Unfortunately, my flight school only houses Terrorhawks. You know, the ones they designed to be easy to spin and won't recover unless you input the right controls. Naturally, I'm apprehensive about my lessons, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make sure I never stall or spin in the first place. I certainly don't fancy practicing them. Thanks for the answer by the way.
– Cloud
1 hour ago
Unfortunately, my flight school only houses Terrorhawks. You know, the ones they designed to be easy to spin and won't recover unless you input the right controls. Naturally, I'm apprehensive about my lessons, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make sure I never stall or spin in the first place. I certainly don't fancy practicing them. Thanks for the answer by the way.
– Cloud
1 hour ago
2
2
Flight schools use Tomahawks because it's very difficult to teach spin avoidance and recovery in a trainer that's effectively spin-proof. You need to learn how to enter and recover from a spin, as well as how to manage a stall in an airplane that will spin. Otherwise, regardless of requirements to learn to spin and recover to get your license, you'll be in serious trouble the first time something goes badly in an aircraft that isn't spin-proof.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
Flight schools use Tomahawks because it's very difficult to teach spin avoidance and recovery in a trainer that's effectively spin-proof. You need to learn how to enter and recover from a spin, as well as how to manage a stall in an airplane that will spin. Otherwise, regardless of requirements to learn to spin and recover to get your license, you'll be in serious trouble the first time something goes badly in an aircraft that isn't spin-proof.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
1
1
I might suggest that you can learn useful things about stalls, spins, and spin recovery by flying a radio control "advanced trainer" type. These models fly very much like light aircraft -- but if you crash, you just have to repair or replace a model airframe, nobody gets hurt.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
I might suggest that you can learn useful things about stalls, spins, and spin recovery by flying a radio control "advanced trainer" type. These models fly very much like light aircraft -- but if you crash, you just have to repair or replace a model airframe, nobody gets hurt.
– Zeiss Ikon
1 hour ago
2
2
There's no such thing as spin-proof. Don't worry about it unduly, learn the lessons and you'll be fine. Get in the habit of watching your airspeed and balance like a hawk when climbing or on approach, and taking positive action quickly if airspeed gets low or your balance is out. Don't get fixated on it, just make sure to come back to it every few seconds.
– GdD
36 mins ago
There's no such thing as spin-proof. Don't worry about it unduly, learn the lessons and you'll be fine. Get in the habit of watching your airspeed and balance like a hawk when climbing or on approach, and taking positive action quickly if airspeed gets low or your balance is out. Don't get fixated on it, just make sure to come back to it every few seconds.
– GdD
36 mins ago
1
1
Of course you're afraid of stalls & spins, @Cloud, you're supposed to be! But, as stated in the 3rd paragraph, that's why they have you practice it - so you know the signs when one begins to happen and you can take the proper corrective action before you end up dead. I'm pretty sure this won't be in your first lesson, either.
– FreeMan
25 mins ago
Of course you're afraid of stalls & spins, @Cloud, you're supposed to be! But, as stated in the 3rd paragraph, that's why they have you practice it - so you know the signs when one begins to happen and you can take the proper corrective action before you end up dead. I'm pretty sure this won't be in your first lesson, either.
– FreeMan
25 mins ago
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
I'm going to make an assumption that solo student flights are in scope here, in which case I would say that flight into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) would quite often be unrecoverable. Instrument flight is a completely different discipline, without training it takes mere moments to become disoriented and lose control. If you do ever get into IMC glue your eyes on your attitude indicator and do a gentle 180 degree turn to exit while maintaining altitude, do not trust your inner ear!
Another potentially unrecoverable situation would be to fly under steadily lowering cloud until it puts you into a situation where landing safely is not possible. Being trapped between overcast and rising terrain with no landing spots will not end well. Scud-running is just stupid with all the high tension lines and cell towers that have sprung out of the ground.
These are preventable situations. Sometimes people succumb to get-there-itis or peer pressure and convince themselves the clouds are thin, or they're bound to raise in a bit, after all the TAF says so. Good flight planning and sticking to your limits will keep you out of that kind of trouble.
answered 11 mins ago
GdD
28.4k277121
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I'm going to make an assumption that solo student flights are in scope here, in which case I would say that flight into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) would quite often be unrecoverable. Instrument flight is a completely different discipline, without training it takes mere moments to become disoriented and lose control. If you do ever get into IMC glue your eyes on your attitude indicator and do a gentle 180 degree turn to exit while maintaining altitude, do not trust your inner ear!
Another potentially unrecoverable situation would be to fly under steadily lowering cloud until it puts you into a situation where landing safely is not possible. Being trapped between overcast and rising terrain with no landing spots will not end well. Scud-running is just stupid with all the high tension lines and cell towers that have sprung out of the ground.
These are preventable situations. Sometimes people succumb to get-there-itis or peer pressure and convince themselves the clouds are thin, or they're bound to raise in a bit, after all the TAF says so. Good flight planning and sticking to your limits will keep you out of that kind of trouble.
answered 11 mins ago
GdD
28.4k277121
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I'm going to make an assumption that solo student flights are in scope here, in which case I would say that flight into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) would quite often be unrecoverable. Instrument flight is a completely different discipline, without training it takes mere moments to become disoriented and lose control. If you do ever get into IMC glue your eyes on your attitude indicator and do a gentle 180 degree turn to exit while maintaining altitude, do not trust your inner ear!
Another potentially unrecoverable situation would be to fly under steadily lowering cloud until it puts you into a situation where landing safely is not possible. Being trapped between overcast and rising terrain with no landing spots will not end well. Scud-running is just stupid with all the high tension lines and cell towers that have sprung out of the ground.
These are preventable situations. Sometimes people succumb to get-there-itis or peer pressure and convince themselves the clouds are thin, or they're bound to raise in a bit, after all the TAF says so. Good flight planning and sticking to your limits will keep you out of that kind of trouble.
answered 11 mins ago
GdD
28.4k277121
I'm going to make an assumption that solo student flights are in scope here, in which case I would say that flight into IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) would quite often be unrecoverable. Instrument flight is a completely different discipline, without training it takes mere moments to become disoriented and lose control. If you do ever get into IMC glue your eyes on your attitude indicator and do a gentle 180 degree turn to exit while maintaining altitude, do not trust your inner ear!
Another potentially unrecoverable situation would be to fly under steadily lowering cloud until it puts you into a situation where landing safely is not possible. Being trapped between overcast and rising terrain with no landing spots will not end well. Scud-running is just stupid with all the high tension lines and cell towers that have sprung out of the ground.
These are preventable situations. Sometimes people succumb to get-there-itis or peer pressure and convince themselves the clouds are thin, or they're bound to raise in a bit, after all the TAF says so. Good flight planning and sticking to your limits will keep you out of that kind of trouble.
answered 11 mins ago
GdD
28.4k277121
answered 11 mins ago
GdD
28.4k277121
answered 11 mins ago
GdD
28.4k277121
answered 11 mins ago
GdD
28.4k277121
28.4k277121
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
A stall at low altitude would be one unrecoverable situation, but hopefully the instructor would be alert enough to intervene in time to prevent this occurring. Spins are normally recoverable in light aircraft, but this is not always so in fast jets. The F84F Thunderstreak was one example of an early jet fighter in which a spin was considered unrecoverable.
answered 1 hour ago
J. Southworth
58216
Is it even possible to spin a large jet, i.e. a 737?
– Cloud
1 hour ago
Few if any commercial aircraft designed after about 1960 will spin unintentionally, but many can be intentionally spun. Flaps zero, throttle idle, full aft yoke, full rudder, and she'll spin, at least a bit. Same way you spin a "spin proof" trainer.
– Zeiss Ikon
20 mins ago
In a Cirrus, spins are also considered "unrecoverable". The Cirrus manual's procedure for "recovering" from a spin is to pull the CAPS lever.
– Ron Beyer
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
A stall at low altitude would be one unrecoverable situation, but hopefully the instructor would be alert enough to intervene in time to prevent this occurring. Spins are normally recoverable in light aircraft, but this is not always so in fast jets. The F84F Thunderstreak was one example of an early jet fighter in which a spin was considered unrecoverable.
answered 1 hour ago
J. Southworth
58216
Is it even possible to spin a large jet, i.e. a 737?
– Cloud
1 hour ago
Few if any commercial aircraft designed after about 1960 will spin unintentionally, but many can be intentionally spun. Flaps zero, throttle idle, full aft yoke, full rudder, and she'll spin, at least a bit. Same way you spin a "spin proof" trainer.
– Zeiss Ikon
20 mins ago
In a Cirrus, spins are also considered "unrecoverable". The Cirrus manual's procedure for "recovering" from a spin is to pull the CAPS lever.
– Ron Beyer
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
A stall at low altitude would be one unrecoverable situation, but hopefully the instructor would be alert enough to intervene in time to prevent this occurring. Spins are normally recoverable in light aircraft, but this is not always so in fast jets. The F84F Thunderstreak was one example of an early jet fighter in which a spin was considered unrecoverable.
answered 1 hour ago
J. Southworth
58216
A stall at low altitude would be one unrecoverable situation, but hopefully the instructor would be alert enough to intervene in time to prevent this occurring. Spins are normally recoverable in light aircraft, but this is not always so in fast jets. The F84F Thunderstreak was one example of an early jet fighter in which a spin was considered unrecoverable.
answered 1 hour ago
J. Southworth
58216
answered 1 hour ago
J. Southworth
58216
answered 1 hour ago
J. Southworth
58216
answered 1 hour ago
J. Southworth
58216
58216
Is it even possible to spin a large jet, i.e. a 737?
– Cloud
1 hour ago
Few if any commercial aircraft designed after about 1960 will spin unintentionally, but many can be intentionally spun. Flaps zero, throttle idle, full aft yoke, full rudder, and she'll spin, at least a bit. Same way you spin a "spin proof" trainer.
– Zeiss Ikon
20 mins ago
In a Cirrus, spins are also considered "unrecoverable". The Cirrus manual's procedure for "recovering" from a spin is to pull the CAPS lever.
– Ron Beyer
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Is it even possible to spin a large jet, i.e. a 737?
– Cloud
1 hour ago
Few if any commercial aircraft designed after about 1960 will spin unintentionally, but many can be intentionally spun. Flaps zero, throttle idle, full aft yoke, full rudder, and she'll spin, at least a bit. Same way you spin a "spin proof" trainer.
– Zeiss Ikon
20 mins ago
In a Cirrus, spins are also considered "unrecoverable". The Cirrus manual's procedure for "recovering" from a spin is to pull the CAPS lever.
– Ron Beyer
17 mins ago
Is it even possible to spin a large jet, i.e. a 737?
– Cloud
1 hour ago
Is it even possible to spin a large jet, i.e. a 737?
– Cloud
1 hour ago
Few if any commercial aircraft designed after about 1960 will spin unintentionally, but many can be intentionally spun. Flaps zero, throttle idle, full aft yoke, full rudder, and she'll spin, at least a bit. Same way you spin a "spin proof" trainer.
– Zeiss Ikon
20 mins ago
Few if any commercial aircraft designed after about 1960 will spin unintentionally, but many can be intentionally spun. Flaps zero, throttle idle, full aft yoke, full rudder, and she'll spin, at least a bit. Same way you spin a "spin proof" trainer.
– Zeiss Ikon
20 mins ago
In a Cirrus, spins are also considered "unrecoverable". The Cirrus manual's procedure for "recovering" from a spin is to pull the CAPS lever.
– Ron Beyer
17 mins ago
In a Cirrus, spins are also considered "unrecoverable". The Cirrus manual's procedure for "recovering" from a spin is to pull the CAPS lever.
– Ron Beyer
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f56325%2fare-there-any-truly-unrecoverable-situations%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
1
The T-tail on the Traumahawk means it could "deep stall", where the elevator gets blanked by the wing and loses effectiveness, which is unusual in a trainer, however it's not unrecoverable, just more difficult. It's also pretty rare.
– GdD
27 mins ago