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What is the difference between giving advantage on a roll and reducing the DC?
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I run a 5e campaign, and I like rewarding my players for thinking outside the box, roleplaying well, etc. Suppose we have the following scenario:
Violet is a bard, and is attempting to intimidate a city guard while they are alone. The nearby torches suddenly dim and flicker uncertainly. Various objects shake violently and fly about the room, crashing into the walls, tables, and each other. Violet makes a wonderfully scary and venomous threat to the guard.
Violet’s use of fun bard spells and the good roleplaying was great, and I want to reward her player on the Intimidation roll.
I see two possible ways to do this:
- Grant the player advantage on whatever roll they’re making
- Reduce the DC of the check (but by how much?)
How do these two methods differ from one another? Are there scenarios when one is preferred over the other?
dnd-5e gm-techniques statistics advantage difficulty-class
edited 17 mins ago
V2Blast
17.3k246109
asked 7 hours ago
Santana Afton
30818
add a comment |Â
up vote
16
down vote
favorite
I run a 5e campaign, and I like rewarding my players for thinking outside the box, roleplaying well, etc. Suppose we have the following scenario:
Violet is a bard, and is attempting to intimidate a city guard while they are alone. The nearby torches suddenly dim and flicker uncertainly. Various objects shake violently and fly about the room, crashing into the walls, tables, and each other. Violet makes a wonderfully scary and venomous threat to the guard.
Violet’s use of fun bard spells and the good roleplaying was great, and I want to reward her player on the Intimidation roll.
I see two possible ways to do this:
- Grant the player advantage on whatever roll they’re making
- Reduce the DC of the check (but by how much?)
How do these two methods differ from one another? Are there scenarios when one is preferred over the other?
dnd-5e gm-techniques statistics advantage difficulty-class
edited 17 mins ago
V2Blast
17.3k246109
asked 7 hours ago
Santana Afton
30818
@GarretGang Don’t answer in comments.
– SevenSidedDie♦
7 hours ago
3
Related (possible duplicate) on How does rolling two dice and taking the higher affect the average outcome?
– NautArch
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
16
down vote
favorite
up vote
16
down vote
favorite
I run a 5e campaign, and I like rewarding my players for thinking outside the box, roleplaying well, etc. Suppose we have the following scenario:
Violet is a bard, and is attempting to intimidate a city guard while they are alone. The nearby torches suddenly dim and flicker uncertainly. Various objects shake violently and fly about the room, crashing into the walls, tables, and each other. Violet makes a wonderfully scary and venomous threat to the guard.
Violet’s use of fun bard spells and the good roleplaying was great, and I want to reward her player on the Intimidation roll.
I see two possible ways to do this:
- Grant the player advantage on whatever roll they’re making
- Reduce the DC of the check (but by how much?)
How do these two methods differ from one another? Are there scenarios when one is preferred over the other?
dnd-5e gm-techniques statistics advantage difficulty-class
edited 17 mins ago
V2Blast
17.3k246109
asked 7 hours ago
Santana Afton
30818
I run a 5e campaign, and I like rewarding my players for thinking outside the box, roleplaying well, etc. Suppose we have the following scenario:
Violet is a bard, and is attempting to intimidate a city guard while they are alone. The nearby torches suddenly dim and flicker uncertainly. Various objects shake violently and fly about the room, crashing into the walls, tables, and each other. Violet makes a wonderfully scary and venomous threat to the guard.
Violet’s use of fun bard spells and the good roleplaying was great, and I want to reward her player on the Intimidation roll.
I see two possible ways to do this:
- Grant the player advantage on whatever roll they’re making
- Reduce the DC of the check (but by how much?)
How do these two methods differ from one another? Are there scenarios when one is preferred over the other?
dnd-5e gm-techniques statistics advantage difficulty-class
dnd-5e gm-techniques statistics advantage difficulty-class
edited 17 mins ago
V2Blast
17.3k246109
asked 7 hours ago
Santana Afton
30818
edited 17 mins ago
V2Blast
17.3k246109
asked 7 hours ago
Santana Afton
30818
edited 17 mins ago
V2Blast
17.3k246109
edited 17 mins ago
V2Blast
17.3k246109
edited 17 mins ago
V2Blast
17.3k246109
17.3k246109
asked 7 hours ago
Santana Afton
30818
asked 7 hours ago
Santana Afton
30818
asked 7 hours ago
Santana Afton
30818
30818
@GarretGang Don’t answer in comments.
– SevenSidedDie♦
7 hours ago
3
Related (possible duplicate) on How does rolling two dice and taking the higher affect the average outcome?
– NautArch
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
@GarretGang Don’t answer in comments.
– SevenSidedDie♦
7 hours ago
3
Related (possible duplicate) on How does rolling two dice and taking the higher affect the average outcome?
– NautArch
7 hours ago
@GarretGang Don’t answer in comments.
– SevenSidedDie♦
7 hours ago
@GarretGang Don’t answer in comments.
– SevenSidedDie♦
7 hours ago
3
3
Related (possible duplicate) on How does rolling two dice and taking the higher affect the average outcome?
– NautArch
7 hours ago
Related (possible duplicate) on How does rolling two dice and taking the higher affect the average outcome?
– NautArch
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
up vote
21
down vote
Just give advantage
I’ll get to the math in a minute, but the math really should be moot: there is no guidance for altering DCs based on PC actions because the point of the advantage mechanic is to eliminate the hundreds of ways of tweaking situational probability.
Advantage (and disadvantage) exist entirely to handle exactly these sorts of situations. Avoiding using it is fine if you’re into homebrewing your game rules, but if you’re wanting to just use the methods the game provides, give advantage.
The math, in very brief
Advantage is equivalent to reducing a DC by 5… sometimes. That’s the average. How much advantage is actually worth depends on what your original DC and roll bonus are, because the probability for the highest of two dice beating a target number is a curve instead of a straight line.
answered 7 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26638919
6
It's equivalent to reducing by 5 in the best case (where there was a 50/50 chance of success initially), not the average case, as your own link indicates. When a natural roll of 11 or higher is needed, it's equivalent to reducing the DC by 5; when you need a 2 or a 20 though, it's worth (slightly) less than a DC reduction of 1. Point is, when someone is an expert or a raw beginner, a DC reduction is often worth more than advantage. D&D encourages using advantage/disadvantage for everything because nickel-and-dime DC mods are a royal pain, that's all.
– ShadowRanger
4 hours ago
2
@ShadowRanger Your comment is applicable to this answer, but it's also an answer in itself. I'd highly recommend submitting it :)
– NautArch
3 hours ago
@NautArch: Honestly, I don't think mine is a real answer, as it gives no guidance as to which to choose, it's just geeking out about the math. I think Tezra's answer is the correct answer from a "designer intent" standpoint. The math may or may not serve the intent, but I figured nitpicking the math was more a comment to fix an error in the wording of this answer, not worthy of an answer itself.
– ShadowRanger
2 hours ago
Might be worth noting that advantage will not make the impossible possible, lowering the DC may.
– Dale M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
Advantage is the usual way
DnD 5e seldom uses situational modifiers to rolls. Advantage is the usual way for the system to describe something is particularly easy because of some circumstance. Advantage is more conventional than lowering the DC, and your players are more likely to be used to it than changing modifiers or DCs.
Advantage is more transparent
Unless you tell the player that the DC has changed, they won't know their cool plan had any effect. Advantage on the roll is transparent and serves as a good reward for playing the character's strengths well.
Advantage affects the numbers more smoothly
Having advantage on a roll squares your chance of failure. Importantly, this means failure never becomes impossible because of advantage. Lowering the DC or granting a bonus modifier is just a flat decrease in the failure chance of five percent points per point of DC decreased - and notably, this can reduce the chance of failure to zero (especially if the Bard in question has Expertise in Intimidation).
Overall, Advantage is the way to go. It's clear, it's the usual way to do it in 5e, and it changes the probabilities smoother than changing the DC.
answered 6 hours ago
kviiri
29.4k6110178
1
+1 for transparency. Advantage feels like a reward, and encourages the creative behavior.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
This is partly DM prerogative, but the Dungeon Master's guide does give handy guidelines.
The DC is typically more of a fixed thing, representing the difficulty of the task (though still set by the rules or the DM). For arbitrary tasks it gives some examples such as:
Easy = 10, Medium = 15, Hard = 20
However, the DMs guide speaks of advantage and disadvantage. There it says:
They reflect temporary circumstances that might affect the chances of
a character succeeding or failing at a task. Advantage is also a great
way to reward a player who shows exceptional creativity in play.
This quote sounds like it answers your question.
Giving advantage avoids any issues of trying to add up or subtract a whole bunch of DC modifiers; it is much more straightforward.
answered 7 hours ago
PJRZ
5,8431433
2
I would also state that narratively, the DC is a reflection on the task, and advantage on the character. If two characters are attempting the same task they should both be trying to hit the same target number, but modifiers and advantage tell the story of why one is more likely to succeed.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
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up vote
5
down vote
Mechanically, I would say the main difference is that advantage is easier and provides more stable results (As your result chances go from evenly distributed, to a favorably skewed bell curve). 5e favors using advantage/disadvantage as a quick, simple, effective way to deal with temporary bonuses.
Narratively, advantage is a temporary bonus to one action, while a change in DC is a change in the difficulty of the task being attempted.
Giving Advantage means the task is harder for Violet to fail
This means, narratively, that thanks to Violet's special effects, the guard will be more likely to be intimidated by the next thing that comes out of Violet's mouth. The bonus is only for Violet's next action (or until the effect that gives Violet advantage no longer applies to the situation).
Changing the DC means the task has changed
This would mean the guard has lost their composure, and they will think everything is more intimidating/scary. In this case, the bonus applies to Violet and to anyone else attempting the same task.
As another example, building a partial bridge over a gap doesn't make jumping over easier; the jump you have to do to get across is now an easier task for everybody.
answered 4 hours ago
Tezra
474210
glad to help, and I like the answer ... even more now with the fine tuning. :)
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
The task has not become easier, the bard just did a super good job. Because of that I think advantage is better. DC is how difficult a task is.
Here's an example of using a lower DC to intimidate a guard.
Player: Violet looks at the guard. She want so size him up to see if
he is a tough guy.
DM: Roll Wisdom (Insight).
Player: Nice, 18!
DM: This guard has a big scar over his face and looks like he's seen a
thing or two in this town.
Player: Yikes! Violet checks another entrance.
[...]
Player: Okay, Violet also sizes this guy up, I rolled another 18 on
Wisdom (Insight), does she learn anything?
DM: This guard looks nervous. He looks to his side as he seems to hear
something. A rat darts across the path. He jumps a little and quickly
looks around to see if anyone saw him lose his cool.
Player: Perfect...
Since Violet is about to intimidate a guard who is more easily frightened I'd reduce the DC here instead of giving advantage.
answered 4 hours ago
Captain Man
1735
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
21
down vote
Just give advantage
I’ll get to the math in a minute, but the math really should be moot: there is no guidance for altering DCs based on PC actions because the point of the advantage mechanic is to eliminate the hundreds of ways of tweaking situational probability.
Advantage (and disadvantage) exist entirely to handle exactly these sorts of situations. Avoiding using it is fine if you’re into homebrewing your game rules, but if you’re wanting to just use the methods the game provides, give advantage.
The math, in very brief
Advantage is equivalent to reducing a DC by 5… sometimes. That’s the average. How much advantage is actually worth depends on what your original DC and roll bonus are, because the probability for the highest of two dice beating a target number is a curve instead of a straight line.
answered 7 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26638919
6
It's equivalent to reducing by 5 in the best case (where there was a 50/50 chance of success initially), not the average case, as your own link indicates. When a natural roll of 11 or higher is needed, it's equivalent to reducing the DC by 5; when you need a 2 or a 20 though, it's worth (slightly) less than a DC reduction of 1. Point is, when someone is an expert or a raw beginner, a DC reduction is often worth more than advantage. D&D encourages using advantage/disadvantage for everything because nickel-and-dime DC mods are a royal pain, that's all.
– ShadowRanger
4 hours ago
2
@ShadowRanger Your comment is applicable to this answer, but it's also an answer in itself. I'd highly recommend submitting it :)
– NautArch
3 hours ago
@NautArch: Honestly, I don't think mine is a real answer, as it gives no guidance as to which to choose, it's just geeking out about the math. I think Tezra's answer is the correct answer from a "designer intent" standpoint. The math may or may not serve the intent, but I figured nitpicking the math was more a comment to fix an error in the wording of this answer, not worthy of an answer itself.
– ShadowRanger
2 hours ago
Might be worth noting that advantage will not make the impossible possible, lowering the DC may.
– Dale M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
Just give advantage
I’ll get to the math in a minute, but the math really should be moot: there is no guidance for altering DCs based on PC actions because the point of the advantage mechanic is to eliminate the hundreds of ways of tweaking situational probability.
Advantage (and disadvantage) exist entirely to handle exactly these sorts of situations. Avoiding using it is fine if you’re into homebrewing your game rules, but if you’re wanting to just use the methods the game provides, give advantage.
The math, in very brief
Advantage is equivalent to reducing a DC by 5… sometimes. That’s the average. How much advantage is actually worth depends on what your original DC and roll bonus are, because the probability for the highest of two dice beating a target number is a curve instead of a straight line.
answered 7 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26638919
6
It's equivalent to reducing by 5 in the best case (where there was a 50/50 chance of success initially), not the average case, as your own link indicates. When a natural roll of 11 or higher is needed, it's equivalent to reducing the DC by 5; when you need a 2 or a 20 though, it's worth (slightly) less than a DC reduction of 1. Point is, when someone is an expert or a raw beginner, a DC reduction is often worth more than advantage. D&D encourages using advantage/disadvantage for everything because nickel-and-dime DC mods are a royal pain, that's all.
– ShadowRanger
4 hours ago
2
@ShadowRanger Your comment is applicable to this answer, but it's also an answer in itself. I'd highly recommend submitting it :)
– NautArch
3 hours ago
@NautArch: Honestly, I don't think mine is a real answer, as it gives no guidance as to which to choose, it's just geeking out about the math. I think Tezra's answer is the correct answer from a "designer intent" standpoint. The math may or may not serve the intent, but I figured nitpicking the math was more a comment to fix an error in the wording of this answer, not worthy of an answer itself.
– ShadowRanger
2 hours ago
Might be worth noting that advantage will not make the impossible possible, lowering the DC may.
– Dale M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
up vote
21
down vote
Just give advantage
I’ll get to the math in a minute, but the math really should be moot: there is no guidance for altering DCs based on PC actions because the point of the advantage mechanic is to eliminate the hundreds of ways of tweaking situational probability.
Advantage (and disadvantage) exist entirely to handle exactly these sorts of situations. Avoiding using it is fine if you’re into homebrewing your game rules, but if you’re wanting to just use the methods the game provides, give advantage.
The math, in very brief
Advantage is equivalent to reducing a DC by 5… sometimes. That’s the average. How much advantage is actually worth depends on what your original DC and roll bonus are, because the probability for the highest of two dice beating a target number is a curve instead of a straight line.
answered 7 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26638919
Just give advantage
I’ll get to the math in a minute, but the math really should be moot: there is no guidance for altering DCs based on PC actions because the point of the advantage mechanic is to eliminate the hundreds of ways of tweaking situational probability.
Advantage (and disadvantage) exist entirely to handle exactly these sorts of situations. Avoiding using it is fine if you’re into homebrewing your game rules, but if you’re wanting to just use the methods the game provides, give advantage.
The math, in very brief
Advantage is equivalent to reducing a DC by 5… sometimes. That’s the average. How much advantage is actually worth depends on what your original DC and roll bonus are, because the probability for the highest of two dice beating a target number is a curve instead of a straight line.
answered 7 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26638919
edited 6 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26638919
answered 7 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26638919
answered 7 hours ago
SevenSidedDie♦
201k26638919
201k26638919
6
It's equivalent to reducing by 5 in the best case (where there was a 50/50 chance of success initially), not the average case, as your own link indicates. When a natural roll of 11 or higher is needed, it's equivalent to reducing the DC by 5; when you need a 2 or a 20 though, it's worth (slightly) less than a DC reduction of 1. Point is, when someone is an expert or a raw beginner, a DC reduction is often worth more than advantage. D&D encourages using advantage/disadvantage for everything because nickel-and-dime DC mods are a royal pain, that's all.
– ShadowRanger
4 hours ago
2
@ShadowRanger Your comment is applicable to this answer, but it's also an answer in itself. I'd highly recommend submitting it :)
– NautArch
3 hours ago
@NautArch: Honestly, I don't think mine is a real answer, as it gives no guidance as to which to choose, it's just geeking out about the math. I think Tezra's answer is the correct answer from a "designer intent" standpoint. The math may or may not serve the intent, but I figured nitpicking the math was more a comment to fix an error in the wording of this answer, not worthy of an answer itself.
– ShadowRanger
2 hours ago
Might be worth noting that advantage will not make the impossible possible, lowering the DC may.
– Dale M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
6
It's equivalent to reducing by 5 in the best case (where there was a 50/50 chance of success initially), not the average case, as your own link indicates. When a natural roll of 11 or higher is needed, it's equivalent to reducing the DC by 5; when you need a 2 or a 20 though, it's worth (slightly) less than a DC reduction of 1. Point is, when someone is an expert or a raw beginner, a DC reduction is often worth more than advantage. D&D encourages using advantage/disadvantage for everything because nickel-and-dime DC mods are a royal pain, that's all.
– ShadowRanger
4 hours ago
2
@ShadowRanger Your comment is applicable to this answer, but it's also an answer in itself. I'd highly recommend submitting it :)
– NautArch
3 hours ago
@NautArch: Honestly, I don't think mine is a real answer, as it gives no guidance as to which to choose, it's just geeking out about the math. I think Tezra's answer is the correct answer from a "designer intent" standpoint. The math may or may not serve the intent, but I figured nitpicking the math was more a comment to fix an error in the wording of this answer, not worthy of an answer itself.
– ShadowRanger
2 hours ago
Might be worth noting that advantage will not make the impossible possible, lowering the DC may.
– Dale M
1 hour ago
6
6
It's equivalent to reducing by 5 in the best case (where there was a 50/50 chance of success initially), not the average case, as your own link indicates. When a natural roll of 11 or higher is needed, it's equivalent to reducing the DC by 5; when you need a 2 or a 20 though, it's worth (slightly) less than a DC reduction of 1. Point is, when someone is an expert or a raw beginner, a DC reduction is often worth more than advantage. D&D encourages using advantage/disadvantage for everything because nickel-and-dime DC mods are a royal pain, that's all.
– ShadowRanger
4 hours ago
It's equivalent to reducing by 5 in the best case (where there was a 50/50 chance of success initially), not the average case, as your own link indicates. When a natural roll of 11 or higher is needed, it's equivalent to reducing the DC by 5; when you need a 2 or a 20 though, it's worth (slightly) less than a DC reduction of 1. Point is, when someone is an expert or a raw beginner, a DC reduction is often worth more than advantage. D&D encourages using advantage/disadvantage for everything because nickel-and-dime DC mods are a royal pain, that's all.
– ShadowRanger
4 hours ago
2
2
@ShadowRanger Your comment is applicable to this answer, but it's also an answer in itself. I'd highly recommend submitting it :)
– NautArch
3 hours ago
@ShadowRanger Your comment is applicable to this answer, but it's also an answer in itself. I'd highly recommend submitting it :)
– NautArch
3 hours ago
@NautArch: Honestly, I don't think mine is a real answer, as it gives no guidance as to which to choose, it's just geeking out about the math. I think Tezra's answer is the correct answer from a "designer intent" standpoint. The math may or may not serve the intent, but I figured nitpicking the math was more a comment to fix an error in the wording of this answer, not worthy of an answer itself.
– ShadowRanger
2 hours ago
@NautArch: Honestly, I don't think mine is a real answer, as it gives no guidance as to which to choose, it's just geeking out about the math. I think Tezra's answer is the correct answer from a "designer intent" standpoint. The math may or may not serve the intent, but I figured nitpicking the math was more a comment to fix an error in the wording of this answer, not worthy of an answer itself.
– ShadowRanger
2 hours ago
Might be worth noting that advantage will not make the impossible possible, lowering the DC may.
– Dale M
1 hour ago
Might be worth noting that advantage will not make the impossible possible, lowering the DC may.
– Dale M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
Advantage is the usual way
DnD 5e seldom uses situational modifiers to rolls. Advantage is the usual way for the system to describe something is particularly easy because of some circumstance. Advantage is more conventional than lowering the DC, and your players are more likely to be used to it than changing modifiers or DCs.
Advantage is more transparent
Unless you tell the player that the DC has changed, they won't know their cool plan had any effect. Advantage on the roll is transparent and serves as a good reward for playing the character's strengths well.
Advantage affects the numbers more smoothly
Having advantage on a roll squares your chance of failure. Importantly, this means failure never becomes impossible because of advantage. Lowering the DC or granting a bonus modifier is just a flat decrease in the failure chance of five percent points per point of DC decreased - and notably, this can reduce the chance of failure to zero (especially if the Bard in question has Expertise in Intimidation).
Overall, Advantage is the way to go. It's clear, it's the usual way to do it in 5e, and it changes the probabilities smoother than changing the DC.
answered 6 hours ago
kviiri
29.4k6110178
1
+1 for transparency. Advantage feels like a reward, and encourages the creative behavior.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
Advantage is the usual way
DnD 5e seldom uses situational modifiers to rolls. Advantage is the usual way for the system to describe something is particularly easy because of some circumstance. Advantage is more conventional than lowering the DC, and your players are more likely to be used to it than changing modifiers or DCs.
Advantage is more transparent
Unless you tell the player that the DC has changed, they won't know their cool plan had any effect. Advantage on the roll is transparent and serves as a good reward for playing the character's strengths well.
Advantage affects the numbers more smoothly
Having advantage on a roll squares your chance of failure. Importantly, this means failure never becomes impossible because of advantage. Lowering the DC or granting a bonus modifier is just a flat decrease in the failure chance of five percent points per point of DC decreased - and notably, this can reduce the chance of failure to zero (especially if the Bard in question has Expertise in Intimidation).
Overall, Advantage is the way to go. It's clear, it's the usual way to do it in 5e, and it changes the probabilities smoother than changing the DC.
answered 6 hours ago
kviiri
29.4k6110178
1
+1 for transparency. Advantage feels like a reward, and encourages the creative behavior.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
up vote
13
down vote
Advantage is the usual way
DnD 5e seldom uses situational modifiers to rolls. Advantage is the usual way for the system to describe something is particularly easy because of some circumstance. Advantage is more conventional than lowering the DC, and your players are more likely to be used to it than changing modifiers or DCs.
Advantage is more transparent
Unless you tell the player that the DC has changed, they won't know their cool plan had any effect. Advantage on the roll is transparent and serves as a good reward for playing the character's strengths well.
Advantage affects the numbers more smoothly
Having advantage on a roll squares your chance of failure. Importantly, this means failure never becomes impossible because of advantage. Lowering the DC or granting a bonus modifier is just a flat decrease in the failure chance of five percent points per point of DC decreased - and notably, this can reduce the chance of failure to zero (especially if the Bard in question has Expertise in Intimidation).
Overall, Advantage is the way to go. It's clear, it's the usual way to do it in 5e, and it changes the probabilities smoother than changing the DC.
answered 6 hours ago
kviiri
29.4k6110178
Advantage is the usual way
DnD 5e seldom uses situational modifiers to rolls. Advantage is the usual way for the system to describe something is particularly easy because of some circumstance. Advantage is more conventional than lowering the DC, and your players are more likely to be used to it than changing modifiers or DCs.
Advantage is more transparent
Unless you tell the player that the DC has changed, they won't know their cool plan had any effect. Advantage on the roll is transparent and serves as a good reward for playing the character's strengths well.
Advantage affects the numbers more smoothly
Having advantage on a roll squares your chance of failure. Importantly, this means failure never becomes impossible because of advantage. Lowering the DC or granting a bonus modifier is just a flat decrease in the failure chance of five percent points per point of DC decreased - and notably, this can reduce the chance of failure to zero (especially if the Bard in question has Expertise in Intimidation).
Overall, Advantage is the way to go. It's clear, it's the usual way to do it in 5e, and it changes the probabilities smoother than changing the DC.
answered 6 hours ago
kviiri
29.4k6110178
answered 6 hours ago
kviiri
29.4k6110178
answered 6 hours ago
kviiri
29.4k6110178
answered 6 hours ago
kviiri
29.4k6110178
29.4k6110178
1
+1 for transparency. Advantage feels like a reward, and encourages the creative behavior.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
+1 for transparency. Advantage feels like a reward, and encourages the creative behavior.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
1
1
+1 for transparency. Advantage feels like a reward, and encourages the creative behavior.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
+1 for transparency. Advantage feels like a reward, and encourages the creative behavior.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
This is partly DM prerogative, but the Dungeon Master's guide does give handy guidelines.
The DC is typically more of a fixed thing, representing the difficulty of the task (though still set by the rules or the DM). For arbitrary tasks it gives some examples such as:
Easy = 10, Medium = 15, Hard = 20
However, the DMs guide speaks of advantage and disadvantage. There it says:
They reflect temporary circumstances that might affect the chances of
a character succeeding or failing at a task. Advantage is also a great
way to reward a player who shows exceptional creativity in play.
This quote sounds like it answers your question.
Giving advantage avoids any issues of trying to add up or subtract a whole bunch of DC modifiers; it is much more straightforward.
answered 7 hours ago
PJRZ
5,8431433
2
I would also state that narratively, the DC is a reflection on the task, and advantage on the character. If two characters are attempting the same task they should both be trying to hit the same target number, but modifiers and advantage tell the story of why one is more likely to succeed.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
This is partly DM prerogative, but the Dungeon Master's guide does give handy guidelines.
The DC is typically more of a fixed thing, representing the difficulty of the task (though still set by the rules or the DM). For arbitrary tasks it gives some examples such as:
Easy = 10, Medium = 15, Hard = 20
However, the DMs guide speaks of advantage and disadvantage. There it says:
They reflect temporary circumstances that might affect the chances of
a character succeeding or failing at a task. Advantage is also a great
way to reward a player who shows exceptional creativity in play.
This quote sounds like it answers your question.
Giving advantage avoids any issues of trying to add up or subtract a whole bunch of DC modifiers; it is much more straightforward.
answered 7 hours ago
PJRZ
5,8431433
2
I would also state that narratively, the DC is a reflection on the task, and advantage on the character. If two characters are attempting the same task they should both be trying to hit the same target number, but modifiers and advantage tell the story of why one is more likely to succeed.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
This is partly DM prerogative, but the Dungeon Master's guide does give handy guidelines.
The DC is typically more of a fixed thing, representing the difficulty of the task (though still set by the rules or the DM). For arbitrary tasks it gives some examples such as:
Easy = 10, Medium = 15, Hard = 20
However, the DMs guide speaks of advantage and disadvantage. There it says:
They reflect temporary circumstances that might affect the chances of
a character succeeding or failing at a task. Advantage is also a great
way to reward a player who shows exceptional creativity in play.
This quote sounds like it answers your question.
Giving advantage avoids any issues of trying to add up or subtract a whole bunch of DC modifiers; it is much more straightforward.
answered 7 hours ago
PJRZ
5,8431433
This is partly DM prerogative, but the Dungeon Master's guide does give handy guidelines.
The DC is typically more of a fixed thing, representing the difficulty of the task (though still set by the rules or the DM). For arbitrary tasks it gives some examples such as:
Easy = 10, Medium = 15, Hard = 20
However, the DMs guide speaks of advantage and disadvantage. There it says:
They reflect temporary circumstances that might affect the chances of
a character succeeding or failing at a task. Advantage is also a great
way to reward a player who shows exceptional creativity in play.
This quote sounds like it answers your question.
Giving advantage avoids any issues of trying to add up or subtract a whole bunch of DC modifiers; it is much more straightforward.
answered 7 hours ago
PJRZ
5,8431433
answered 7 hours ago
PJRZ
5,8431433
answered 7 hours ago
PJRZ
5,8431433
answered 7 hours ago
PJRZ
5,8431433
5,8431433
2
I would also state that narratively, the DC is a reflection on the task, and advantage on the character. If two characters are attempting the same task they should both be trying to hit the same target number, but modifiers and advantage tell the story of why one is more likely to succeed.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
2
I would also state that narratively, the DC is a reflection on the task, and advantage on the character. If two characters are attempting the same task they should both be trying to hit the same target number, but modifiers and advantage tell the story of why one is more likely to succeed.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
2
2
I would also state that narratively, the DC is a reflection on the task, and advantage on the character. If two characters are attempting the same task they should both be trying to hit the same target number, but modifiers and advantage tell the story of why one is more likely to succeed.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
I would also state that narratively, the DC is a reflection on the task, and advantage on the character. If two characters are attempting the same task they should both be trying to hit the same target number, but modifiers and advantage tell the story of why one is more likely to succeed.
– aherocalledFrog
6 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
Mechanically, I would say the main difference is that advantage is easier and provides more stable results (As your result chances go from evenly distributed, to a favorably skewed bell curve). 5e favors using advantage/disadvantage as a quick, simple, effective way to deal with temporary bonuses.
Narratively, advantage is a temporary bonus to one action, while a change in DC is a change in the difficulty of the task being attempted.
Giving Advantage means the task is harder for Violet to fail
This means, narratively, that thanks to Violet's special effects, the guard will be more likely to be intimidated by the next thing that comes out of Violet's mouth. The bonus is only for Violet's next action (or until the effect that gives Violet advantage no longer applies to the situation).
Changing the DC means the task has changed
This would mean the guard has lost their composure, and they will think everything is more intimidating/scary. In this case, the bonus applies to Violet and to anyone else attempting the same task.
As another example, building a partial bridge over a gap doesn't make jumping over easier; the jump you have to do to get across is now an easier task for everybody.
answered 4 hours ago
Tezra
474210
glad to help, and I like the answer ... even more now with the fine tuning. :)
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
Mechanically, I would say the main difference is that advantage is easier and provides more stable results (As your result chances go from evenly distributed, to a favorably skewed bell curve). 5e favors using advantage/disadvantage as a quick, simple, effective way to deal with temporary bonuses.
Narratively, advantage is a temporary bonus to one action, while a change in DC is a change in the difficulty of the task being attempted.
Giving Advantage means the task is harder for Violet to fail
This means, narratively, that thanks to Violet's special effects, the guard will be more likely to be intimidated by the next thing that comes out of Violet's mouth. The bonus is only for Violet's next action (or until the effect that gives Violet advantage no longer applies to the situation).
Changing the DC means the task has changed
This would mean the guard has lost their composure, and they will think everything is more intimidating/scary. In this case, the bonus applies to Violet and to anyone else attempting the same task.
As another example, building a partial bridge over a gap doesn't make jumping over easier; the jump you have to do to get across is now an easier task for everybody.
answered 4 hours ago
Tezra
474210
glad to help, and I like the answer ... even more now with the fine tuning. :)
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
Mechanically, I would say the main difference is that advantage is easier and provides more stable results (As your result chances go from evenly distributed, to a favorably skewed bell curve). 5e favors using advantage/disadvantage as a quick, simple, effective way to deal with temporary bonuses.
Narratively, advantage is a temporary bonus to one action, while a change in DC is a change in the difficulty of the task being attempted.
Giving Advantage means the task is harder for Violet to fail
This means, narratively, that thanks to Violet's special effects, the guard will be more likely to be intimidated by the next thing that comes out of Violet's mouth. The bonus is only for Violet's next action (or until the effect that gives Violet advantage no longer applies to the situation).
Changing the DC means the task has changed
This would mean the guard has lost their composure, and they will think everything is more intimidating/scary. In this case, the bonus applies to Violet and to anyone else attempting the same task.
As another example, building a partial bridge over a gap doesn't make jumping over easier; the jump you have to do to get across is now an easier task for everybody.
answered 4 hours ago
Tezra
474210
Mechanically, I would say the main difference is that advantage is easier and provides more stable results (As your result chances go from evenly distributed, to a favorably skewed bell curve). 5e favors using advantage/disadvantage as a quick, simple, effective way to deal with temporary bonuses.
Narratively, advantage is a temporary bonus to one action, while a change in DC is a change in the difficulty of the task being attempted.
Giving Advantage means the task is harder for Violet to fail
This means, narratively, that thanks to Violet's special effects, the guard will be more likely to be intimidated by the next thing that comes out of Violet's mouth. The bonus is only for Violet's next action (or until the effect that gives Violet advantage no longer applies to the situation).
Changing the DC means the task has changed
This would mean the guard has lost their composure, and they will think everything is more intimidating/scary. In this case, the bonus applies to Violet and to anyone else attempting the same task.
As another example, building a partial bridge over a gap doesn't make jumping over easier; the jump you have to do to get across is now an easier task for everybody.
answered 4 hours ago
Tezra
474210
edited 3 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
Tezra
474210
answered 4 hours ago
Tezra
474210
answered 4 hours ago
Tezra
474210
474210
glad to help, and I like the answer ... even more now with the fine tuning. :)
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
glad to help, and I like the answer ... even more now with the fine tuning. :)
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
glad to help, and I like the answer ... even more now with the fine tuning. :)
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
glad to help, and I like the answer ... even more now with the fine tuning. :)
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
The task has not become easier, the bard just did a super good job. Because of that I think advantage is better. DC is how difficult a task is.
Here's an example of using a lower DC to intimidate a guard.
Player: Violet looks at the guard. She want so size him up to see if
he is a tough guy.
DM: Roll Wisdom (Insight).
Player: Nice, 18!
DM: This guard has a big scar over his face and looks like he's seen a
thing or two in this town.
Player: Yikes! Violet checks another entrance.
[...]
Player: Okay, Violet also sizes this guy up, I rolled another 18 on
Wisdom (Insight), does she learn anything?
DM: This guard looks nervous. He looks to his side as he seems to hear
something. A rat darts across the path. He jumps a little and quickly
looks around to see if anyone saw him lose his cool.
Player: Perfect...
Since Violet is about to intimidate a guard who is more easily frightened I'd reduce the DC here instead of giving advantage.
answered 4 hours ago
Captain Man
1735
New contributor
Captain Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
The task has not become easier, the bard just did a super good job. Because of that I think advantage is better. DC is how difficult a task is.
Here's an example of using a lower DC to intimidate a guard.
Player: Violet looks at the guard. She want so size him up to see if
he is a tough guy.
DM: Roll Wisdom (Insight).
Player: Nice, 18!
DM: This guard has a big scar over his face and looks like he's seen a
thing or two in this town.
Player: Yikes! Violet checks another entrance.
[...]
Player: Okay, Violet also sizes this guy up, I rolled another 18 on
Wisdom (Insight), does she learn anything?
DM: This guard looks nervous. He looks to his side as he seems to hear
something. A rat darts across the path. He jumps a little and quickly
looks around to see if anyone saw him lose his cool.
Player: Perfect...
Since Violet is about to intimidate a guard who is more easily frightened I'd reduce the DC here instead of giving advantage.
answered 4 hours ago
Captain Man
1735
New contributor
Captain Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
The task has not become easier, the bard just did a super good job. Because of that I think advantage is better. DC is how difficult a task is.
Here's an example of using a lower DC to intimidate a guard.
Player: Violet looks at the guard. She want so size him up to see if
he is a tough guy.
DM: Roll Wisdom (Insight).
Player: Nice, 18!
DM: This guard has a big scar over his face and looks like he's seen a
thing or two in this town.
Player: Yikes! Violet checks another entrance.
[...]
Player: Okay, Violet also sizes this guy up, I rolled another 18 on
Wisdom (Insight), does she learn anything?
DM: This guard looks nervous. He looks to his side as he seems to hear
something. A rat darts across the path. He jumps a little and quickly
looks around to see if anyone saw him lose his cool.
Player: Perfect...
Since Violet is about to intimidate a guard who is more easily frightened I'd reduce the DC here instead of giving advantage.
answered 4 hours ago
Captain Man
1735
New contributor
Captain Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
The task has not become easier, the bard just did a super good job. Because of that I think advantage is better. DC is how difficult a task is.
Here's an example of using a lower DC to intimidate a guard.
Player: Violet looks at the guard. She want so size him up to see if
he is a tough guy.
DM: Roll Wisdom (Insight).
Player: Nice, 18!
DM: This guard has a big scar over his face and looks like he's seen a
thing or two in this town.
Player: Yikes! Violet checks another entrance.
[...]
Player: Okay, Violet also sizes this guy up, I rolled another 18 on
Wisdom (Insight), does she learn anything?
DM: This guard looks nervous. He looks to his side as he seems to hear
something. A rat darts across the path. He jumps a little and quickly
looks around to see if anyone saw him lose his cool.
Player: Perfect...
Since Violet is about to intimidate a guard who is more easily frightened I'd reduce the DC here instead of giving advantage.
answered 4 hours ago
Captain Man
1735
New contributor
Captain Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 4 hours ago
Captain Man
1735
New contributor
Captain Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 4 hours ago
Captain Man
1735
answered 4 hours ago
Captain Man
1735
1735
New contributor
Captain Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Captain Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Captain Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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@GarretGang Don’t answer in comments.
– SevenSidedDie♦
7 hours ago
3
Related (possible duplicate) on How does rolling two dice and taking the higher affect the average outcome?
– NautArch
7 hours ago