Use of the VI and v chord in a minor key, subdominant and dominant functional use?

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I have a couple of questions related to chord function in natural minor. I have been playing around with chord functions and how they relate to each other. The first chord I am confused by is the function of the major VI in a natural minor key. Going by the chord functions assigned to the major key system it could function as a tonic. However when I play it I feel it sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role in the sequences I play.



Secondly the minor v chord in natural minor does not feel like it has a dominant function again despite the terminology applied to it. It sounds slightly more "tonicy" to me when I play sequences.



In a nutshell, in natural minor does a VI chord function more as a subdominant or a tonic and does a v chord function more as a tonic or a dominant?



Please note I am talking about the function and how it sounds not the terminology.



Thanks in advance, love this site!










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    I have a couple of questions related to chord function in natural minor. I have been playing around with chord functions and how they relate to each other. The first chord I am confused by is the function of the major VI in a natural minor key. Going by the chord functions assigned to the major key system it could function as a tonic. However when I play it I feel it sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role in the sequences I play.



    Secondly the minor v chord in natural minor does not feel like it has a dominant function again despite the terminology applied to it. It sounds slightly more "tonicy" to me when I play sequences.



    In a nutshell, in natural minor does a VI chord function more as a subdominant or a tonic and does a v chord function more as a tonic or a dominant?



    Please note I am talking about the function and how it sounds not the terminology.



    Thanks in advance, love this site!










    share|improve this question







    New contributor




    Babaluma is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite











      I have a couple of questions related to chord function in natural minor. I have been playing around with chord functions and how they relate to each other. The first chord I am confused by is the function of the major VI in a natural minor key. Going by the chord functions assigned to the major key system it could function as a tonic. However when I play it I feel it sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role in the sequences I play.



      Secondly the minor v chord in natural minor does not feel like it has a dominant function again despite the terminology applied to it. It sounds slightly more "tonicy" to me when I play sequences.



      In a nutshell, in natural minor does a VI chord function more as a subdominant or a tonic and does a v chord function more as a tonic or a dominant?



      Please note I am talking about the function and how it sounds not the terminology.



      Thanks in advance, love this site!










      share|improve this question







      New contributor




      Babaluma is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      I have a couple of questions related to chord function in natural minor. I have been playing around with chord functions and how they relate to each other. The first chord I am confused by is the function of the major VI in a natural minor key. Going by the chord functions assigned to the major key system it could function as a tonic. However when I play it I feel it sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role in the sequences I play.



      Secondly the minor v chord in natural minor does not feel like it has a dominant function again despite the terminology applied to it. It sounds slightly more "tonicy" to me when I play sequences.



      In a nutshell, in natural minor does a VI chord function more as a subdominant or a tonic and does a v chord function more as a tonic or a dominant?



      Please note I am talking about the function and how it sounds not the terminology.



      Thanks in advance, love this site!







      chords chord-progressions functional-harmony






      share|improve this question







      New contributor




      Babaluma is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











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      Babaluma

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          3 Answers
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          When you write that you "feel [VI] sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role", you have good reason: VI's triad contains ^6 and ^1, and so does iv. The whole of VI's triad is part of the iv7 chord.



          One key closely related to any minor key is its relative major key III. VI is IV of III.



          One factor which makes v seem like not a dominant is that its triad lacks the all-important leading-note (leading-tone), the raised ^7.






          share|improve this answer



























            up vote
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            Don't get stuck in the idea that you're restricted to chords built from the natural minor scale. You'll find plenty of major V chords in the repertoire, and plenty of major IV ones too. As you say, if you want dominant functionality rather than modal meandering (though that's nice too!) a major V or V7 is very useful. That's why the form of minor scale that includes it is called the Harmonic Minor. There's another form, the Melodic Minor, which validates the major IV chord.






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              up vote
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              IV has basically a pre-dominant function. Take a look at this harmony chart...



              enter image description here



              The minor v will not be a dominant, because it doesn't have a leading tone. Here is one typical way it is used...



              enter image description here



              ...notice how the second chord is the minor v in first inversion and then the fourth and fifth chords are the dominant V, first inversion and using the leading tone.



              So the minor v may be found as part of a descending bass or harmonic sequence, but not in a cadence. To form a cadence you would use the true dominant form with the raised leading tone.






              share|improve this answer




















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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

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                active

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                active

                oldest

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                up vote
                2
                down vote













                When you write that you "feel [VI] sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role", you have good reason: VI's triad contains ^6 and ^1, and so does iv. The whole of VI's triad is part of the iv7 chord.



                One key closely related to any minor key is its relative major key III. VI is IV of III.



                One factor which makes v seem like not a dominant is that its triad lacks the all-important leading-note (leading-tone), the raised ^7.






                share|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  When you write that you "feel [VI] sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role", you have good reason: VI's triad contains ^6 and ^1, and so does iv. The whole of VI's triad is part of the iv7 chord.



                  One key closely related to any minor key is its relative major key III. VI is IV of III.



                  One factor which makes v seem like not a dominant is that its triad lacks the all-important leading-note (leading-tone), the raised ^7.






                  share|improve this answer






















                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote









                    When you write that you "feel [VI] sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role", you have good reason: VI's triad contains ^6 and ^1, and so does iv. The whole of VI's triad is part of the iv7 chord.



                    One key closely related to any minor key is its relative major key III. VI is IV of III.



                    One factor which makes v seem like not a dominant is that its triad lacks the all-important leading-note (leading-tone), the raised ^7.






                    share|improve this answer












                    When you write that you "feel [VI] sounds like it is working in more of a subdominant role", you have good reason: VI's triad contains ^6 and ^1, and so does iv. The whole of VI's triad is part of the iv7 chord.



                    One key closely related to any minor key is its relative major key III. VI is IV of III.



                    One factor which makes v seem like not a dominant is that its triad lacks the all-important leading-note (leading-tone), the raised ^7.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 3 hours ago









                    Rosie F

                    903211




                    903211




















                        up vote
                        2
                        down vote













                        Don't get stuck in the idea that you're restricted to chords built from the natural minor scale. You'll find plenty of major V chords in the repertoire, and plenty of major IV ones too. As you say, if you want dominant functionality rather than modal meandering (though that's nice too!) a major V or V7 is very useful. That's why the form of minor scale that includes it is called the Harmonic Minor. There's another form, the Melodic Minor, which validates the major IV chord.






                        share|improve this answer
























                          up vote
                          2
                          down vote













                          Don't get stuck in the idea that you're restricted to chords built from the natural minor scale. You'll find plenty of major V chords in the repertoire, and plenty of major IV ones too. As you say, if you want dominant functionality rather than modal meandering (though that's nice too!) a major V or V7 is very useful. That's why the form of minor scale that includes it is called the Harmonic Minor. There's another form, the Melodic Minor, which validates the major IV chord.






                          share|improve this answer






















                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote









                            Don't get stuck in the idea that you're restricted to chords built from the natural minor scale. You'll find plenty of major V chords in the repertoire, and plenty of major IV ones too. As you say, if you want dominant functionality rather than modal meandering (though that's nice too!) a major V or V7 is very useful. That's why the form of minor scale that includes it is called the Harmonic Minor. There's another form, the Melodic Minor, which validates the major IV chord.






                            share|improve this answer












                            Don't get stuck in the idea that you're restricted to chords built from the natural minor scale. You'll find plenty of major V chords in the repertoire, and plenty of major IV ones too. As you say, if you want dominant functionality rather than modal meandering (though that's nice too!) a major V or V7 is very useful. That's why the form of minor scale that includes it is called the Harmonic Minor. There's another form, the Melodic Minor, which validates the major IV chord.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 1 hour ago









                            Laurence Payne

                            27.8k1350




                            27.8k1350




















                                up vote
                                0
                                down vote













                                IV has basically a pre-dominant function. Take a look at this harmony chart...



                                enter image description here



                                The minor v will not be a dominant, because it doesn't have a leading tone. Here is one typical way it is used...



                                enter image description here



                                ...notice how the second chord is the minor v in first inversion and then the fourth and fifth chords are the dominant V, first inversion and using the leading tone.



                                So the minor v may be found as part of a descending bass or harmonic sequence, but not in a cadence. To form a cadence you would use the true dominant form with the raised leading tone.






                                share|improve this answer
























                                  up vote
                                  0
                                  down vote













                                  IV has basically a pre-dominant function. Take a look at this harmony chart...



                                  enter image description here



                                  The minor v will not be a dominant, because it doesn't have a leading tone. Here is one typical way it is used...



                                  enter image description here



                                  ...notice how the second chord is the minor v in first inversion and then the fourth and fifth chords are the dominant V, first inversion and using the leading tone.



                                  So the minor v may be found as part of a descending bass or harmonic sequence, but not in a cadence. To form a cadence you would use the true dominant form with the raised leading tone.






                                  share|improve this answer






















                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote









                                    IV has basically a pre-dominant function. Take a look at this harmony chart...



                                    enter image description here



                                    The minor v will not be a dominant, because it doesn't have a leading tone. Here is one typical way it is used...



                                    enter image description here



                                    ...notice how the second chord is the minor v in first inversion and then the fourth and fifth chords are the dominant V, first inversion and using the leading tone.



                                    So the minor v may be found as part of a descending bass or harmonic sequence, but not in a cadence. To form a cadence you would use the true dominant form with the raised leading tone.






                                    share|improve this answer












                                    IV has basically a pre-dominant function. Take a look at this harmony chart...



                                    enter image description here



                                    The minor v will not be a dominant, because it doesn't have a leading tone. Here is one typical way it is used...



                                    enter image description here



                                    ...notice how the second chord is the minor v in first inversion and then the fourth and fifth chords are the dominant V, first inversion and using the leading tone.



                                    So the minor v may be found as part of a descending bass or harmonic sequence, but not in a cadence. To form a cadence you would use the true dominant form with the raised leading tone.







                                    share|improve this answer












                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer










                                    answered 59 mins ago









                                    Michael Curtis

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