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How can Mars Helicopter be autonomous if there isn't a Martian GPS?
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The question says it: how can Mars Helicopter be autonomous if there isn't a Martian GPS?
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought that for a drone to be autonomous, you had to have something like a GPS to be able to navigate it. And if you don't have GPS, you'd have to manually control it with a controller...
Do the orbiters provide something like GPS then? I thought the orbiters functioning now were too old to have those technologies.
mars nasa gps mars-orbiters helicopter
asked 1 hour ago
jjhh
1213
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
The question says it: how can Mars Helicopter be autonomous if there isn't a Martian GPS?
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought that for a drone to be autonomous, you had to have something like a GPS to be able to navigate it. And if you don't have GPS, you'd have to manually control it with a controller...
Do the orbiters provide something like GPS then? I thought the orbiters functioning now were too old to have those technologies.
mars nasa gps mars-orbiters helicopter
asked 1 hour ago
jjhh
1213
see this answer for example
– uhoh
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
The question says it: how can Mars Helicopter be autonomous if there isn't a Martian GPS?
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought that for a drone to be autonomous, you had to have something like a GPS to be able to navigate it. And if you don't have GPS, you'd have to manually control it with a controller...
Do the orbiters provide something like GPS then? I thought the orbiters functioning now were too old to have those technologies.
mars nasa gps mars-orbiters helicopter
asked 1 hour ago
jjhh
1213
The question says it: how can Mars Helicopter be autonomous if there isn't a Martian GPS?
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought that for a drone to be autonomous, you had to have something like a GPS to be able to navigate it. And if you don't have GPS, you'd have to manually control it with a controller...
Do the orbiters provide something like GPS then? I thought the orbiters functioning now were too old to have those technologies.
mars nasa gps mars-orbiters helicopter
mars nasa gps mars-orbiters helicopter
asked 1 hour ago
jjhh
1213
asked 1 hour ago
jjhh
1213
asked 1 hour ago
jjhh
1213
asked 1 hour ago
jjhh
1213
asked 1 hour ago
jjhh
1213
1213
see this answer for example
– uhoh
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
see this answer for example
– uhoh
17 mins ago
see this answer for example
– uhoh
17 mins ago
see this answer for example
– uhoh
17 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
There are other ways to navigate than GPS.
- Inertial navigation uses accelerometers to detect in which direction you're moving, and speed or distance sensors to detect how far you've gone. Used e.g. by submarines to navigate when they're underwater and out of GPS reach. Also used by current Mars rovers.
- You can use radio direction finding. With 2 transmitters in known locations, you can triangulate your position. With 1 transmitter navigation is more limited but you can still get back to the transmitter location. Used in WW2 by aircraft.
In addition to knowing your position, you need to know something about the terrain around you. You need to know which spots can be traversed, and which are too steep/rocky/soft for the vehicle to traverse. For an aircraft, you need to know where the mountains are and where it's safe to land.
You can use a map built by someone else as your reference (this is what satnav in your car does), or you can build your own map as you go along.
The current Mars rovers have demonstrated autonomy: they take pictures of the terrain ahead, and they can choose a safe path. GPS is not necessary for this.
answered 1 hour ago
Hobbes
79.1k2215357
— and those can still make a drone autonomous? For inertial navigation, and for radio direction finding as well, it sounds like you need a pretty accurate map... Is that right?
– jjhh
1 hour ago
1
2 transmitters is not enough; 2 circles intersect at 2 points, so using only 2 transmitters leaves 2 possible solutions for positioning (unless both transmitters are in exactly opposite directions), so you still need an additional piece of evidence to choose between the 2.
– gerrit
47 mins ago
Radio based instrument landing systems were used even before WWII. During WWII very sophisticated electronic navigation systems were used, for instance decca.
– Uwe
9 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
GPS is one of several possible technologies available for assisted navigation. It's commonly used on commercial drones because the framework is in place and GPS signal is usually available on Earth.
It requires a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, though - something we don't have (yet) around other celestial bodies. In that case we need different approaches, such as:
Astrometry - Δ-DOR, or Delta-Differential One-Way Ranging can use quasars as calibrators in order to provide surface resolution under a few hundred meters on Mars;
Surface mapping - a drone may store 3D surface maps of its surroundings, and then use LiDAR/RADAR sensing together with matching algorithms to determine its current position;
Inertial navigation, as mentioned in Hobbes' answer;
Several techniques can be combined in order to provide better accuracy.
answered 1 hour ago
OnoSendai
33627
GPD needs not only a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, it also needs several ground stations for precise orbit measurement of each satellite. There is no precise position determination if you got no precise orbit data for all satellites used to determine position.
– Uwe
20 mins ago
@Uwe You're completely right. In my defense, I wanted to keep it short and to the point. Adding to your comment, even general relativity is used to compensate for time dilation-related error analysis by the ground stations, as described here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
– OnoSendai
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
There are other ways to navigate than GPS.
- Inertial navigation uses accelerometers to detect in which direction you're moving, and speed or distance sensors to detect how far you've gone. Used e.g. by submarines to navigate when they're underwater and out of GPS reach. Also used by current Mars rovers.
- You can use radio direction finding. With 2 transmitters in known locations, you can triangulate your position. With 1 transmitter navigation is more limited but you can still get back to the transmitter location. Used in WW2 by aircraft.
In addition to knowing your position, you need to know something about the terrain around you. You need to know which spots can be traversed, and which are too steep/rocky/soft for the vehicle to traverse. For an aircraft, you need to know where the mountains are and where it's safe to land.
You can use a map built by someone else as your reference (this is what satnav in your car does), or you can build your own map as you go along.
The current Mars rovers have demonstrated autonomy: they take pictures of the terrain ahead, and they can choose a safe path. GPS is not necessary for this.
answered 1 hour ago
Hobbes
79.1k2215357
— and those can still make a drone autonomous? For inertial navigation, and for radio direction finding as well, it sounds like you need a pretty accurate map... Is that right?
– jjhh
1 hour ago
1
2 transmitters is not enough; 2 circles intersect at 2 points, so using only 2 transmitters leaves 2 possible solutions for positioning (unless both transmitters are in exactly opposite directions), so you still need an additional piece of evidence to choose between the 2.
– gerrit
47 mins ago
Radio based instrument landing systems were used even before WWII. During WWII very sophisticated electronic navigation systems were used, for instance decca.
– Uwe
9 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
There are other ways to navigate than GPS.
- Inertial navigation uses accelerometers to detect in which direction you're moving, and speed or distance sensors to detect how far you've gone. Used e.g. by submarines to navigate when they're underwater and out of GPS reach. Also used by current Mars rovers.
- You can use radio direction finding. With 2 transmitters in known locations, you can triangulate your position. With 1 transmitter navigation is more limited but you can still get back to the transmitter location. Used in WW2 by aircraft.
In addition to knowing your position, you need to know something about the terrain around you. You need to know which spots can be traversed, and which are too steep/rocky/soft for the vehicle to traverse. For an aircraft, you need to know where the mountains are and where it's safe to land.
You can use a map built by someone else as your reference (this is what satnav in your car does), or you can build your own map as you go along.
The current Mars rovers have demonstrated autonomy: they take pictures of the terrain ahead, and they can choose a safe path. GPS is not necessary for this.
answered 1 hour ago
Hobbes
79.1k2215357
— and those can still make a drone autonomous? For inertial navigation, and for radio direction finding as well, it sounds like you need a pretty accurate map... Is that right?
– jjhh
1 hour ago
1
2 transmitters is not enough; 2 circles intersect at 2 points, so using only 2 transmitters leaves 2 possible solutions for positioning (unless both transmitters are in exactly opposite directions), so you still need an additional piece of evidence to choose between the 2.
– gerrit
47 mins ago
Radio based instrument landing systems were used even before WWII. During WWII very sophisticated electronic navigation systems were used, for instance decca.
– Uwe
9 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
There are other ways to navigate than GPS.
- Inertial navigation uses accelerometers to detect in which direction you're moving, and speed or distance sensors to detect how far you've gone. Used e.g. by submarines to navigate when they're underwater and out of GPS reach. Also used by current Mars rovers.
- You can use radio direction finding. With 2 transmitters in known locations, you can triangulate your position. With 1 transmitter navigation is more limited but you can still get back to the transmitter location. Used in WW2 by aircraft.
In addition to knowing your position, you need to know something about the terrain around you. You need to know which spots can be traversed, and which are too steep/rocky/soft for the vehicle to traverse. For an aircraft, you need to know where the mountains are and where it's safe to land.
You can use a map built by someone else as your reference (this is what satnav in your car does), or you can build your own map as you go along.
The current Mars rovers have demonstrated autonomy: they take pictures of the terrain ahead, and they can choose a safe path. GPS is not necessary for this.
answered 1 hour ago
Hobbes
79.1k2215357
There are other ways to navigate than GPS.
- Inertial navigation uses accelerometers to detect in which direction you're moving, and speed or distance sensors to detect how far you've gone. Used e.g. by submarines to navigate when they're underwater and out of GPS reach. Also used by current Mars rovers.
- You can use radio direction finding. With 2 transmitters in known locations, you can triangulate your position. With 1 transmitter navigation is more limited but you can still get back to the transmitter location. Used in WW2 by aircraft.
In addition to knowing your position, you need to know something about the terrain around you. You need to know which spots can be traversed, and which are too steep/rocky/soft for the vehicle to traverse. For an aircraft, you need to know where the mountains are and where it's safe to land.
You can use a map built by someone else as your reference (this is what satnav in your car does), or you can build your own map as you go along.
The current Mars rovers have demonstrated autonomy: they take pictures of the terrain ahead, and they can choose a safe path. GPS is not necessary for this.
answered 1 hour ago
Hobbes
79.1k2215357
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
Hobbes
79.1k2215357
answered 1 hour ago
Hobbes
79.1k2215357
answered 1 hour ago
Hobbes
79.1k2215357
79.1k2215357
— and those can still make a drone autonomous? For inertial navigation, and for radio direction finding as well, it sounds like you need a pretty accurate map... Is that right?
– jjhh
1 hour ago
1
2 transmitters is not enough; 2 circles intersect at 2 points, so using only 2 transmitters leaves 2 possible solutions for positioning (unless both transmitters are in exactly opposite directions), so you still need an additional piece of evidence to choose between the 2.
– gerrit
47 mins ago
Radio based instrument landing systems were used even before WWII. During WWII very sophisticated electronic navigation systems were used, for instance decca.
– Uwe
9 mins ago
add a comment |Â
— and those can still make a drone autonomous? For inertial navigation, and for radio direction finding as well, it sounds like you need a pretty accurate map... Is that right?
– jjhh
1 hour ago
1
2 transmitters is not enough; 2 circles intersect at 2 points, so using only 2 transmitters leaves 2 possible solutions for positioning (unless both transmitters are in exactly opposite directions), so you still need an additional piece of evidence to choose between the 2.
– gerrit
47 mins ago
Radio based instrument landing systems were used even before WWII. During WWII very sophisticated electronic navigation systems were used, for instance decca.
– Uwe
9 mins ago
— and those can still make a drone autonomous? For inertial navigation, and for radio direction finding as well, it sounds like you need a pretty accurate map... Is that right?
– jjhh
1 hour ago
— and those can still make a drone autonomous? For inertial navigation, and for radio direction finding as well, it sounds like you need a pretty accurate map... Is that right?
– jjhh
1 hour ago
1
1
2 transmitters is not enough; 2 circles intersect at 2 points, so using only 2 transmitters leaves 2 possible solutions for positioning (unless both transmitters are in exactly opposite directions), so you still need an additional piece of evidence to choose between the 2.
– gerrit
47 mins ago
2 transmitters is not enough; 2 circles intersect at 2 points, so using only 2 transmitters leaves 2 possible solutions for positioning (unless both transmitters are in exactly opposite directions), so you still need an additional piece of evidence to choose between the 2.
– gerrit
47 mins ago
Radio based instrument landing systems were used even before WWII. During WWII very sophisticated electronic navigation systems were used, for instance decca.
– Uwe
9 mins ago
Radio based instrument landing systems were used even before WWII. During WWII very sophisticated electronic navigation systems were used, for instance decca.
– Uwe
9 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
GPS is one of several possible technologies available for assisted navigation. It's commonly used on commercial drones because the framework is in place and GPS signal is usually available on Earth.
It requires a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, though - something we don't have (yet) around other celestial bodies. In that case we need different approaches, such as:
Astrometry - Δ-DOR, or Delta-Differential One-Way Ranging can use quasars as calibrators in order to provide surface resolution under a few hundred meters on Mars;
Surface mapping - a drone may store 3D surface maps of its surroundings, and then use LiDAR/RADAR sensing together with matching algorithms to determine its current position;
Inertial navigation, as mentioned in Hobbes' answer;
Several techniques can be combined in order to provide better accuracy.
answered 1 hour ago
OnoSendai
33627
GPD needs not only a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, it also needs several ground stations for precise orbit measurement of each satellite. There is no precise position determination if you got no precise orbit data for all satellites used to determine position.
– Uwe
20 mins ago
@Uwe You're completely right. In my defense, I wanted to keep it short and to the point. Adding to your comment, even general relativity is used to compensate for time dilation-related error analysis by the ground stations, as described here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
– OnoSendai
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
GPS is one of several possible technologies available for assisted navigation. It's commonly used on commercial drones because the framework is in place and GPS signal is usually available on Earth.
It requires a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, though - something we don't have (yet) around other celestial bodies. In that case we need different approaches, such as:
Astrometry - Δ-DOR, or Delta-Differential One-Way Ranging can use quasars as calibrators in order to provide surface resolution under a few hundred meters on Mars;
Surface mapping - a drone may store 3D surface maps of its surroundings, and then use LiDAR/RADAR sensing together with matching algorithms to determine its current position;
Inertial navigation, as mentioned in Hobbes' answer;
Several techniques can be combined in order to provide better accuracy.
answered 1 hour ago
OnoSendai
33627
GPD needs not only a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, it also needs several ground stations for precise orbit measurement of each satellite. There is no precise position determination if you got no precise orbit data for all satellites used to determine position.
– Uwe
20 mins ago
@Uwe You're completely right. In my defense, I wanted to keep it short and to the point. Adding to your comment, even general relativity is used to compensate for time dilation-related error analysis by the ground stations, as described here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
– OnoSendai
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
GPS is one of several possible technologies available for assisted navigation. It's commonly used on commercial drones because the framework is in place and GPS signal is usually available on Earth.
It requires a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, though - something we don't have (yet) around other celestial bodies. In that case we need different approaches, such as:
Astrometry - Δ-DOR, or Delta-Differential One-Way Ranging can use quasars as calibrators in order to provide surface resolution under a few hundred meters on Mars;
Surface mapping - a drone may store 3D surface maps of its surroundings, and then use LiDAR/RADAR sensing together with matching algorithms to determine its current position;
Inertial navigation, as mentioned in Hobbes' answer;
Several techniques can be combined in order to provide better accuracy.
answered 1 hour ago
OnoSendai
33627
GPS is one of several possible technologies available for assisted navigation. It's commonly used on commercial drones because the framework is in place and GPS signal is usually available on Earth.
It requires a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, though - something we don't have (yet) around other celestial bodies. In that case we need different approaches, such as:
Astrometry - Δ-DOR, or Delta-Differential One-Way Ranging can use quasars as calibrators in order to provide surface resolution under a few hundred meters on Mars;
Surface mapping - a drone may store 3D surface maps of its surroundings, and then use LiDAR/RADAR sensing together with matching algorithms to determine its current position;
Inertial navigation, as mentioned in Hobbes' answer;
Several techniques can be combined in order to provide better accuracy.
answered 1 hour ago
OnoSendai
33627
edited 57 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
OnoSendai
33627
answered 1 hour ago
OnoSendai
33627
answered 1 hour ago
OnoSendai
33627
33627
GPD needs not only a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, it also needs several ground stations for precise orbit measurement of each satellite. There is no precise position determination if you got no precise orbit data for all satellites used to determine position.
– Uwe
20 mins ago
@Uwe You're completely right. In my defense, I wanted to keep it short and to the point. Adding to your comment, even general relativity is used to compensate for time dilation-related error analysis by the ground stations, as described here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
– OnoSendai
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
GPD needs not only a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, it also needs several ground stations for precise orbit measurement of each satellite. There is no precise position determination if you got no precise orbit data for all satellites used to determine position.
– Uwe
20 mins ago
@Uwe You're completely right. In my defense, I wanted to keep it short and to the point. Adding to your comment, even general relativity is used to compensate for time dilation-related error analysis by the ground stations, as described here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
– OnoSendai
8 mins ago
GPD needs not only a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, it also needs several ground stations for precise orbit measurement of each satellite. There is no precise position determination if you got no precise orbit data for all satellites used to determine position.
– Uwe
20 mins ago
GPD needs not only a flotilla of satellites around our planet to work, it also needs several ground stations for precise orbit measurement of each satellite. There is no precise position determination if you got no precise orbit data for all satellites used to determine position.
– Uwe
20 mins ago
@Uwe You're completely right. In my defense, I wanted to keep it short and to the point. Adding to your comment, even general relativity is used to compensate for time dilation-related error analysis by the ground stations, as described here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
– OnoSendai
8 mins ago
@Uwe You're completely right. In my defense, I wanted to keep it short and to the point. Adding to your comment, even general relativity is used to compensate for time dilation-related error analysis by the ground stations, as described here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
– OnoSendai
8 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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see this answer for example
– uhoh
17 mins ago