How does one know which kamma-cetana and action is related to which kamma-vipaka being experienced?

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
1
down vote

favorite












For instance if I go to a Buddhist center and a dog bites me on my leg while there.



How do I know whether:



example 1:



a) the dog biting me is my kamma-vipaka from my intentions and actions from the past or from a past life



or



b) the dog biting me is my kamma-vipaka for being at a Buddhist center



?



example 2:



I do something bad and something bad happens to me 2 days later.



How do I know whether:



c) The bad thing happening to me is related to the bad thing I did.



or



d) The bad thing happening is not related to the bad thing I did.

?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.























    up vote
    1
    down vote

    favorite












    For instance if I go to a Buddhist center and a dog bites me on my leg while there.



    How do I know whether:



    example 1:



    a) the dog biting me is my kamma-vipaka from my intentions and actions from the past or from a past life



    or



    b) the dog biting me is my kamma-vipaka for being at a Buddhist center



    ?



    example 2:



    I do something bad and something bad happens to me 2 days later.



    How do I know whether:



    c) The bad thing happening to me is related to the bad thing I did.



    or



    d) The bad thing happening is not related to the bad thing I did.

    ?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite











      For instance if I go to a Buddhist center and a dog bites me on my leg while there.



      How do I know whether:



      example 1:



      a) the dog biting me is my kamma-vipaka from my intentions and actions from the past or from a past life



      or



      b) the dog biting me is my kamma-vipaka for being at a Buddhist center



      ?



      example 2:



      I do something bad and something bad happens to me 2 days later.



      How do I know whether:



      c) The bad thing happening to me is related to the bad thing I did.



      or



      d) The bad thing happening is not related to the bad thing I did.

      ?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      For instance if I go to a Buddhist center and a dog bites me on my leg while there.



      How do I know whether:



      example 1:



      a) the dog biting me is my kamma-vipaka from my intentions and actions from the past or from a past life



      or



      b) the dog biting me is my kamma-vipaka for being at a Buddhist center



      ?



      example 2:



      I do something bad and something bad happens to me 2 days later.



      How do I know whether:



      c) The bad thing happening to me is related to the bad thing I did.



      or



      d) The bad thing happening is not related to the bad thing I did.

      ?







      karma






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 52 mins ago





















      New contributor




      Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked 5 hours ago









      Angus

      155




      155




      New contributor




      Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      Angus is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          3
          down vote













          Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable (AN 4.77):




          "There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?



          "The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]



          "The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...



          "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."




          In other words, I don't think it's possible to know -- or at least, knowing that would be an unusual/supernatural ability.



          I guess it (the law of karma) is useful as a general rule, too complicated to see in detail. It's like, you can usefully predict that a river will flow downhill, without understanding every eddy and wavelet.




          If I were to speculate further, my conventional/modern understanding (i.e. not based on Buddhist scriptures) is that you can't say that "the" cause of something is either instant or related to the past -- instead, an event has both kinds of cause, e.g. a "proximate" cause (what happened near or close to, just before, the event?) and some "ulterior" cause -- in fact, maybe several proximate causes and several ulterior causes (furthermore, samsara has "an inconstruable beginning ... not evident").



          It's difficult, I suppose it's a mind-made projection (see also "sunyata"), to identity any one cause. IMO that's the same kind of difficulty (or impossibility) that you experience when you try to find the single thing which "is" a person (is it their name, their reputation, their fingers, their mood, etc.? Maybe none of these, maybe all).



          And yet (obviously or conventionally) people are different, they inherit differences, they react differently, train themselves for better or for worse; and they "reap what they sow", more or less, though the details can be difficult to decypher, they develop habits -- so it wouldn't make sense to say that "karma doesn't exist" (like you wouldn't say that people don't exist).



          I'm not even sure whether every event is considered a fruit of karma -- see also What, besides karma, determines the future? -- e.g. in this video I think Ven. Yuttadhammo is explaining that people dying in a Tsunami is an act of nature, which has various scientific causes, e.g. to do with the movement of "atoms" ... and that "karma" (in contrast) explains the role of "the mind" within that, e.g. why some people will be scared, others angry, others calm.






          share|improve this answer






















          • Well I like the approach of focusing on "the mind" because it seems a lot more robust and simpler. The problem that still seems to remain (at least for me) is that it seems it sometimes isn't clear to me whether I have done something bad or not if there is no instant kamma-vipaka to indicate it and then I am left guessing or perhaps attributing the wrong kamma-vipaka to my past actions which means I might even stop doing something good because I think the consequences are bad.
            – Angus
            27 mins ago










          • The idea of some things being caused by "nature" (beyond bile) I find peculiar. Are there any suttas where the Buddha says that people can be killed by or experience great pain because of "nature"? If that is the case then how would people be able to be assured enlightenment within 7 lives etc. as "nature" might kill them before they are even born each time.
            – Angus
            24 mins ago











          Your Answer







          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "565"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: false,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );






          Angus is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









           

          draft saved


          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fbuddhism.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f29651%2fhow-does-one-know-which-kamma-cetana-and-action-is-related-to-which-kamma-vipaka%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest






























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          3
          down vote













          Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable (AN 4.77):




          "There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?



          "The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]



          "The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...



          "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."




          In other words, I don't think it's possible to know -- or at least, knowing that would be an unusual/supernatural ability.



          I guess it (the law of karma) is useful as a general rule, too complicated to see in detail. It's like, you can usefully predict that a river will flow downhill, without understanding every eddy and wavelet.




          If I were to speculate further, my conventional/modern understanding (i.e. not based on Buddhist scriptures) is that you can't say that "the" cause of something is either instant or related to the past -- instead, an event has both kinds of cause, e.g. a "proximate" cause (what happened near or close to, just before, the event?) and some "ulterior" cause -- in fact, maybe several proximate causes and several ulterior causes (furthermore, samsara has "an inconstruable beginning ... not evident").



          It's difficult, I suppose it's a mind-made projection (see also "sunyata"), to identity any one cause. IMO that's the same kind of difficulty (or impossibility) that you experience when you try to find the single thing which "is" a person (is it their name, their reputation, their fingers, their mood, etc.? Maybe none of these, maybe all).



          And yet (obviously or conventionally) people are different, they inherit differences, they react differently, train themselves for better or for worse; and they "reap what they sow", more or less, though the details can be difficult to decypher, they develop habits -- so it wouldn't make sense to say that "karma doesn't exist" (like you wouldn't say that people don't exist).



          I'm not even sure whether every event is considered a fruit of karma -- see also What, besides karma, determines the future? -- e.g. in this video I think Ven. Yuttadhammo is explaining that people dying in a Tsunami is an act of nature, which has various scientific causes, e.g. to do with the movement of "atoms" ... and that "karma" (in contrast) explains the role of "the mind" within that, e.g. why some people will be scared, others angry, others calm.






          share|improve this answer






















          • Well I like the approach of focusing on "the mind" because it seems a lot more robust and simpler. The problem that still seems to remain (at least for me) is that it seems it sometimes isn't clear to me whether I have done something bad or not if there is no instant kamma-vipaka to indicate it and then I am left guessing or perhaps attributing the wrong kamma-vipaka to my past actions which means I might even stop doing something good because I think the consequences are bad.
            – Angus
            27 mins ago










          • The idea of some things being caused by "nature" (beyond bile) I find peculiar. Are there any suttas where the Buddha says that people can be killed by or experience great pain because of "nature"? If that is the case then how would people be able to be assured enlightenment within 7 lives etc. as "nature" might kill them before they are even born each time.
            – Angus
            24 mins ago















          up vote
          3
          down vote













          Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable (AN 4.77):




          "There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?



          "The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]



          "The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...



          "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."




          In other words, I don't think it's possible to know -- or at least, knowing that would be an unusual/supernatural ability.



          I guess it (the law of karma) is useful as a general rule, too complicated to see in detail. It's like, you can usefully predict that a river will flow downhill, without understanding every eddy and wavelet.




          If I were to speculate further, my conventional/modern understanding (i.e. not based on Buddhist scriptures) is that you can't say that "the" cause of something is either instant or related to the past -- instead, an event has both kinds of cause, e.g. a "proximate" cause (what happened near or close to, just before, the event?) and some "ulterior" cause -- in fact, maybe several proximate causes and several ulterior causes (furthermore, samsara has "an inconstruable beginning ... not evident").



          It's difficult, I suppose it's a mind-made projection (see also "sunyata"), to identity any one cause. IMO that's the same kind of difficulty (or impossibility) that you experience when you try to find the single thing which "is" a person (is it their name, their reputation, their fingers, their mood, etc.? Maybe none of these, maybe all).



          And yet (obviously or conventionally) people are different, they inherit differences, they react differently, train themselves for better or for worse; and they "reap what they sow", more or less, though the details can be difficult to decypher, they develop habits -- so it wouldn't make sense to say that "karma doesn't exist" (like you wouldn't say that people don't exist).



          I'm not even sure whether every event is considered a fruit of karma -- see also What, besides karma, determines the future? -- e.g. in this video I think Ven. Yuttadhammo is explaining that people dying in a Tsunami is an act of nature, which has various scientific causes, e.g. to do with the movement of "atoms" ... and that "karma" (in contrast) explains the role of "the mind" within that, e.g. why some people will be scared, others angry, others calm.






          share|improve this answer






















          • Well I like the approach of focusing on "the mind" because it seems a lot more robust and simpler. The problem that still seems to remain (at least for me) is that it seems it sometimes isn't clear to me whether I have done something bad or not if there is no instant kamma-vipaka to indicate it and then I am left guessing or perhaps attributing the wrong kamma-vipaka to my past actions which means I might even stop doing something good because I think the consequences are bad.
            – Angus
            27 mins ago










          • The idea of some things being caused by "nature" (beyond bile) I find peculiar. Are there any suttas where the Buddha says that people can be killed by or experience great pain because of "nature"? If that is the case then how would people be able to be assured enlightenment within 7 lives etc. as "nature" might kill them before they are even born each time.
            – Angus
            24 mins ago













          up vote
          3
          down vote










          up vote
          3
          down vote









          Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable (AN 4.77):




          "There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?



          "The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]



          "The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...



          "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."




          In other words, I don't think it's possible to know -- or at least, knowing that would be an unusual/supernatural ability.



          I guess it (the law of karma) is useful as a general rule, too complicated to see in detail. It's like, you can usefully predict that a river will flow downhill, without understanding every eddy and wavelet.




          If I were to speculate further, my conventional/modern understanding (i.e. not based on Buddhist scriptures) is that you can't say that "the" cause of something is either instant or related to the past -- instead, an event has both kinds of cause, e.g. a "proximate" cause (what happened near or close to, just before, the event?) and some "ulterior" cause -- in fact, maybe several proximate causes and several ulterior causes (furthermore, samsara has "an inconstruable beginning ... not evident").



          It's difficult, I suppose it's a mind-made projection (see also "sunyata"), to identity any one cause. IMO that's the same kind of difficulty (or impossibility) that you experience when you try to find the single thing which "is" a person (is it their name, their reputation, their fingers, their mood, etc.? Maybe none of these, maybe all).



          And yet (obviously or conventionally) people are different, they inherit differences, they react differently, train themselves for better or for worse; and they "reap what they sow", more or less, though the details can be difficult to decypher, they develop habits -- so it wouldn't make sense to say that "karma doesn't exist" (like you wouldn't say that people don't exist).



          I'm not even sure whether every event is considered a fruit of karma -- see also What, besides karma, determines the future? -- e.g. in this video I think Ven. Yuttadhammo is explaining that people dying in a Tsunami is an act of nature, which has various scientific causes, e.g. to do with the movement of "atoms" ... and that "karma" (in contrast) explains the role of "the mind" within that, e.g. why some people will be scared, others angry, others calm.






          share|improve this answer














          Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable (AN 4.77):




          "There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?



          "The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]



          "The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...



          "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.



          "These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."




          In other words, I don't think it's possible to know -- or at least, knowing that would be an unusual/supernatural ability.



          I guess it (the law of karma) is useful as a general rule, too complicated to see in detail. It's like, you can usefully predict that a river will flow downhill, without understanding every eddy and wavelet.




          If I were to speculate further, my conventional/modern understanding (i.e. not based on Buddhist scriptures) is that you can't say that "the" cause of something is either instant or related to the past -- instead, an event has both kinds of cause, e.g. a "proximate" cause (what happened near or close to, just before, the event?) and some "ulterior" cause -- in fact, maybe several proximate causes and several ulterior causes (furthermore, samsara has "an inconstruable beginning ... not evident").



          It's difficult, I suppose it's a mind-made projection (see also "sunyata"), to identity any one cause. IMO that's the same kind of difficulty (or impossibility) that you experience when you try to find the single thing which "is" a person (is it their name, their reputation, their fingers, their mood, etc.? Maybe none of these, maybe all).



          And yet (obviously or conventionally) people are different, they inherit differences, they react differently, train themselves for better or for worse; and they "reap what they sow", more or less, though the details can be difficult to decypher, they develop habits -- so it wouldn't make sense to say that "karma doesn't exist" (like you wouldn't say that people don't exist).



          I'm not even sure whether every event is considered a fruit of karma -- see also What, besides karma, determines the future? -- e.g. in this video I think Ven. Yuttadhammo is explaining that people dying in a Tsunami is an act of nature, which has various scientific causes, e.g. to do with the movement of "atoms" ... and that "karma" (in contrast) explains the role of "the mind" within that, e.g. why some people will be scared, others angry, others calm.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 3 hours ago

























          answered 4 hours ago









          ChrisW♦

          28k42384




          28k42384











          • Well I like the approach of focusing on "the mind" because it seems a lot more robust and simpler. The problem that still seems to remain (at least for me) is that it seems it sometimes isn't clear to me whether I have done something bad or not if there is no instant kamma-vipaka to indicate it and then I am left guessing or perhaps attributing the wrong kamma-vipaka to my past actions which means I might even stop doing something good because I think the consequences are bad.
            – Angus
            27 mins ago










          • The idea of some things being caused by "nature" (beyond bile) I find peculiar. Are there any suttas where the Buddha says that people can be killed by or experience great pain because of "nature"? If that is the case then how would people be able to be assured enlightenment within 7 lives etc. as "nature" might kill them before they are even born each time.
            – Angus
            24 mins ago

















          • Well I like the approach of focusing on "the mind" because it seems a lot more robust and simpler. The problem that still seems to remain (at least for me) is that it seems it sometimes isn't clear to me whether I have done something bad or not if there is no instant kamma-vipaka to indicate it and then I am left guessing or perhaps attributing the wrong kamma-vipaka to my past actions which means I might even stop doing something good because I think the consequences are bad.
            – Angus
            27 mins ago










          • The idea of some things being caused by "nature" (beyond bile) I find peculiar. Are there any suttas where the Buddha says that people can be killed by or experience great pain because of "nature"? If that is the case then how would people be able to be assured enlightenment within 7 lives etc. as "nature" might kill them before they are even born each time.
            – Angus
            24 mins ago
















          Well I like the approach of focusing on "the mind" because it seems a lot more robust and simpler. The problem that still seems to remain (at least for me) is that it seems it sometimes isn't clear to me whether I have done something bad or not if there is no instant kamma-vipaka to indicate it and then I am left guessing or perhaps attributing the wrong kamma-vipaka to my past actions which means I might even stop doing something good because I think the consequences are bad.
          – Angus
          27 mins ago




          Well I like the approach of focusing on "the mind" because it seems a lot more robust and simpler. The problem that still seems to remain (at least for me) is that it seems it sometimes isn't clear to me whether I have done something bad or not if there is no instant kamma-vipaka to indicate it and then I am left guessing or perhaps attributing the wrong kamma-vipaka to my past actions which means I might even stop doing something good because I think the consequences are bad.
          – Angus
          27 mins ago












          The idea of some things being caused by "nature" (beyond bile) I find peculiar. Are there any suttas where the Buddha says that people can be killed by or experience great pain because of "nature"? If that is the case then how would people be able to be assured enlightenment within 7 lives etc. as "nature" might kill them before they are even born each time.
          – Angus
          24 mins ago





          The idea of some things being caused by "nature" (beyond bile) I find peculiar. Are there any suttas where the Buddha says that people can be killed by or experience great pain because of "nature"? If that is the case then how would people be able to be assured enlightenment within 7 lives etc. as "nature" might kill them before they are even born each time.
          – Angus
          24 mins ago











          Angus is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









           

          draft saved


          draft discarded


















          Angus is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












          Angus is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











          Angus is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













           


          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fbuddhism.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f29651%2fhow-does-one-know-which-kamma-cetana-and-action-is-related-to-which-kamma-vipaka%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest













































































          Comments

          Popular posts from this blog

          What does second last employer means? [closed]

          Installing NextGIS Connect into QGIS 3?

          One-line joke