Mixing
If “Olympics†is singular, why does it use “were�
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But the Olympics were really only a staging post in a much more
fundamental reshaping of the Chinese capital.
On blog.esllibrary.com, I found "Olympics" is a singular:
Decision time:
We at ESL Library decided to go with “the Olympics†+ singular verb and “the Olympic Games†+ plural verb. Basically, “the Olympics†is a collective noun like team or United States, and usually takes a singular verb. “Games,†on the other hand, is a plural noun that should take a plural verb. It’s possible to consider “the Olympic Games†as a collective noun, but “the Olympic Games is...†just doesn’t sound right to me. “The Olympic Games are...†sounds much better!
word-usage subject-verb-agreement
edited Aug 9 at 11:21
CalvT
113116
asked Aug 9 at 0:14
马化腾
1,009320
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
Source
But the Olympics were really only a staging post in a much more
fundamental reshaping of the Chinese capital.
On blog.esllibrary.com, I found "Olympics" is a singular:
Decision time:
We at ESL Library decided to go with “the Olympics†+ singular verb and “the Olympic Games†+ plural verb. Basically, “the Olympics†is a collective noun like team or United States, and usually takes a singular verb. “Games,†on the other hand, is a plural noun that should take a plural verb. It’s possible to consider “the Olympic Games†as a collective noun, but “the Olympic Games is...†just doesn’t sound right to me. “The Olympic Games are...†sounds much better!
word-usage subject-verb-agreement
edited Aug 9 at 11:21
CalvT
113116
asked Aug 9 at 0:14
马化腾
1,009320
3
Take your pick: books.google.com/ngrams/…
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:17
The blog shows how variable the definition of "Olympics" can be. For example, the author writes "each Olympics" at one point, apparently implying that the Olympic Games held in 2016 (for example) constituted "one Olympics." But Olympics can also refer to the entire series.
– David K
Aug 9 at 13:17
6
The key phrase is "we decided". ESL Library is one group of people. Other groups have decided different things, or just flip-flop on a whim. So the premise of the question is flawed (though the question itself may have value regardless).
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Aug 9 at 15:19
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
Source
But the Olympics were really only a staging post in a much more
fundamental reshaping of the Chinese capital.
On blog.esllibrary.com, I found "Olympics" is a singular:
Decision time:
We at ESL Library decided to go with “the Olympics†+ singular verb and “the Olympic Games†+ plural verb. Basically, “the Olympics†is a collective noun like team or United States, and usually takes a singular verb. “Games,†on the other hand, is a plural noun that should take a plural verb. It’s possible to consider “the Olympic Games†as a collective noun, but “the Olympic Games is...†just doesn’t sound right to me. “The Olympic Games are...†sounds much better!
word-usage subject-verb-agreement
edited Aug 9 at 11:21
CalvT
113116
asked Aug 9 at 0:14
马化腾
1,009320
Source
But the Olympics were really only a staging post in a much more
fundamental reshaping of the Chinese capital.
On blog.esllibrary.com, I found "Olympics" is a singular:
Decision time:
We at ESL Library decided to go with “the Olympics†+ singular verb and “the Olympic Games†+ plural verb. Basically, “the Olympics†is a collective noun like team or United States, and usually takes a singular verb. “Games,†on the other hand, is a plural noun that should take a plural verb. It’s possible to consider “the Olympic Games†as a collective noun, but “the Olympic Games is...†just doesn’t sound right to me. “The Olympic Games are...†sounds much better!
word-usage subject-verb-agreement
edited Aug 9 at 11:21
CalvT
113116
asked Aug 9 at 0:14
马化腾
1,009320
edited Aug 9 at 11:21
CalvT
113116
edited Aug 9 at 11:21
CalvT
113116
edited Aug 9 at 11:21
CalvT
113116
113116
asked Aug 9 at 0:14
马化腾
1,009320
asked Aug 9 at 0:14
马化腾
1,009320
asked Aug 9 at 0:14
马化腾
1,009320
1,009320
3
Take your pick: books.google.com/ngrams/…
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:17
The blog shows how variable the definition of "Olympics" can be. For example, the author writes "each Olympics" at one point, apparently implying that the Olympic Games held in 2016 (for example) constituted "one Olympics." But Olympics can also refer to the entire series.
– David K
Aug 9 at 13:17
6
The key phrase is "we decided". ESL Library is one group of people. Other groups have decided different things, or just flip-flop on a whim. So the premise of the question is flawed (though the question itself may have value regardless).
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Aug 9 at 15:19
add a comment |Â
3
Take your pick: books.google.com/ngrams/…
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:17
The blog shows how variable the definition of "Olympics" can be. For example, the author writes "each Olympics" at one point, apparently implying that the Olympic Games held in 2016 (for example) constituted "one Olympics." But Olympics can also refer to the entire series.
– David K
Aug 9 at 13:17
6
The key phrase is "we decided". ESL Library is one group of people. Other groups have decided different things, or just flip-flop on a whim. So the premise of the question is flawed (though the question itself may have value regardless).
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Aug 9 at 15:19
3
3
Take your pick: books.google.com/ngrams/…
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:17
Take your pick: books.google.com/ngrams/…
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:17
The blog shows how variable the definition of "Olympics" can be. For example, the author writes "each Olympics" at one point, apparently implying that the Olympic Games held in 2016 (for example) constituted "one Olympics." But Olympics can also refer to the entire series.
– David K
Aug 9 at 13:17
The blog shows how variable the definition of "Olympics" can be. For example, the author writes "each Olympics" at one point, apparently implying that the Olympic Games held in 2016 (for example) constituted "one Olympics." But Olympics can also refer to the entire series.
– David K
Aug 9 at 13:17
6
6
The key phrase is "we decided". ESL Library is one group of people. Other groups have decided different things, or just flip-flop on a whim. So the premise of the question is flawed (though the question itself may have value regardless).
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Aug 9 at 15:19
The key phrase is "we decided". ESL Library is one group of people. Other groups have decided different things, or just flip-flop on a whim. So the premise of the question is flawed (though the question itself may have value regardless).
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Aug 9 at 15:19
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
25
down vote
accepted
The word Olympics is plural. It's also a shortened expression of the Olympic Games.
The history of the games is discussed on the official website:
Olympia, the site of the ancient Olympic Games, is in the western part of the Peloponnese which, according to Greek mythology, is the island of "Pelops", the founder of the Olympic Games. Imposing temples, votive buildings, elaborate shrines and ancient sporting facilities were combined in a site of unique natural and mystical beauty. Olympia functioned as a meeting place for worship and other religious and political practices as early as the 10th century B.C. The central part of Olympia was dominated by the majestic temple of Zeus, with the temple of Hera parallel to it.
The authors of the article you referenced are free to use whatever style they choose, but I would argue that they are in the minority.
answered Aug 9 at 0:28
Jason Bassford
8,4951926
That is the first result of searching "Olympics plural" :D
– é©¬åŒ–è…¾
Aug 9 at 0:46
Does that mean that it should be the Olympic's, given that it's a contraction? I'm only half kidding, but I'm definitely going to start using that to the people in my life irritated by misplaced apostrophes.
– Yann
Aug 9 at 6:46
Is gymnastics plural too?
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:16
2
@Yann just because it is a contraction does not imply an apostrophe. The plural of "games" goes to the word "Olympics". It is not like "it's" where the letters of the following word, "is" or "has", is dropped. It is not that the letters "game" are dropped here.
– rexkogitans
Aug 9 at 12:49
2
@LightnessRacesinOrbit “These games were ...†is plural. If it were singular, it would read “This games was ...â€Â.
– Emil Jeřábek
Aug 9 at 17:14
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
21
down vote
"We at ESL library decided to go with..."
I don't think you can really take such a decision as an authoritative source.
As they say "Olympics" is a collective or, more precisely, uncountable noun. Their mistake is a lack of awareness that uncountable nouns, despite their name, can still either be singular (eg rice, equipment, research) or plural (jeans, police). The Olympics are of the latter group.
edited Aug 10 at 2:30
amalloy
1355
answered Aug 9 at 5:04
Paul Childs
8617
5
Jason Bassford's answer is quite correct, but this answer is better. "The United States" is a phrase that is similar. "The United States" can refer to the singular collective (and so "is" would be appropriate), or as a pluralistic group (so the word "are" would be appropriate). "The United States of America are 50 states that have a governor, two federal senators, and other common characteristics." Also, "The United States is a country of 50 states. Each of these states unite to a large country, but still have their own individual actions."
– TOOGAM
Aug 9 at 13:21
2
This is the better answer. Language is (perhaps regrettably) fluid. "The olympics" is now used to refer to the singlular grouping of many games. But, thanks to that pesky "s" on the end, the grammatical rules are much more complicated to apply.
– JBH
Aug 9 at 17:36
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
25
down vote
accepted
The word Olympics is plural. It's also a shortened expression of the Olympic Games.
The history of the games is discussed on the official website:
Olympia, the site of the ancient Olympic Games, is in the western part of the Peloponnese which, according to Greek mythology, is the island of "Pelops", the founder of the Olympic Games. Imposing temples, votive buildings, elaborate shrines and ancient sporting facilities were combined in a site of unique natural and mystical beauty. Olympia functioned as a meeting place for worship and other religious and political practices as early as the 10th century B.C. The central part of Olympia was dominated by the majestic temple of Zeus, with the temple of Hera parallel to it.
The authors of the article you referenced are free to use whatever style they choose, but I would argue that they are in the minority.
answered Aug 9 at 0:28
Jason Bassford
8,4951926
That is the first result of searching "Olympics plural" :D
– é©¬åŒ–è…¾
Aug 9 at 0:46
Does that mean that it should be the Olympic's, given that it's a contraction? I'm only half kidding, but I'm definitely going to start using that to the people in my life irritated by misplaced apostrophes.
– Yann
Aug 9 at 6:46
Is gymnastics plural too?
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:16
2
@Yann just because it is a contraction does not imply an apostrophe. The plural of "games" goes to the word "Olympics". It is not like "it's" where the letters of the following word, "is" or "has", is dropped. It is not that the letters "game" are dropped here.
– rexkogitans
Aug 9 at 12:49
2
@LightnessRacesinOrbit “These games were ...†is plural. If it were singular, it would read “This games was ...â€Â.
– Emil Jeřábek
Aug 9 at 17:14
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
25
down vote
accepted
The word Olympics is plural. It's also a shortened expression of the Olympic Games.
The history of the games is discussed on the official website:
Olympia, the site of the ancient Olympic Games, is in the western part of the Peloponnese which, according to Greek mythology, is the island of "Pelops", the founder of the Olympic Games. Imposing temples, votive buildings, elaborate shrines and ancient sporting facilities were combined in a site of unique natural and mystical beauty. Olympia functioned as a meeting place for worship and other religious and political practices as early as the 10th century B.C. The central part of Olympia was dominated by the majestic temple of Zeus, with the temple of Hera parallel to it.
The authors of the article you referenced are free to use whatever style they choose, but I would argue that they are in the minority.
answered Aug 9 at 0:28
Jason Bassford
8,4951926
That is the first result of searching "Olympics plural" :D
– é©¬åŒ–è…¾
Aug 9 at 0:46
Does that mean that it should be the Olympic's, given that it's a contraction? I'm only half kidding, but I'm definitely going to start using that to the people in my life irritated by misplaced apostrophes.
– Yann
Aug 9 at 6:46
Is gymnastics plural too?
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:16
2
@Yann just because it is a contraction does not imply an apostrophe. The plural of "games" goes to the word "Olympics". It is not like "it's" where the letters of the following word, "is" or "has", is dropped. It is not that the letters "game" are dropped here.
– rexkogitans
Aug 9 at 12:49
2
@LightnessRacesinOrbit “These games were ...†is plural. If it were singular, it would read “This games was ...â€Â.
– Emil Jeřábek
Aug 9 at 17:14
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
25
down vote
accepted
up vote
25
down vote
accepted
The word Olympics is plural. It's also a shortened expression of the Olympic Games.
The history of the games is discussed on the official website:
Olympia, the site of the ancient Olympic Games, is in the western part of the Peloponnese which, according to Greek mythology, is the island of "Pelops", the founder of the Olympic Games. Imposing temples, votive buildings, elaborate shrines and ancient sporting facilities were combined in a site of unique natural and mystical beauty. Olympia functioned as a meeting place for worship and other religious and political practices as early as the 10th century B.C. The central part of Olympia was dominated by the majestic temple of Zeus, with the temple of Hera parallel to it.
The authors of the article you referenced are free to use whatever style they choose, but I would argue that they are in the minority.
answered Aug 9 at 0:28
Jason Bassford
8,4951926
The word Olympics is plural. It's also a shortened expression of the Olympic Games.
The history of the games is discussed on the official website:
Olympia, the site of the ancient Olympic Games, is in the western part of the Peloponnese which, according to Greek mythology, is the island of "Pelops", the founder of the Olympic Games. Imposing temples, votive buildings, elaborate shrines and ancient sporting facilities were combined in a site of unique natural and mystical beauty. Olympia functioned as a meeting place for worship and other religious and political practices as early as the 10th century B.C. The central part of Olympia was dominated by the majestic temple of Zeus, with the temple of Hera parallel to it.
The authors of the article you referenced are free to use whatever style they choose, but I would argue that they are in the minority.
answered Aug 9 at 0:28
Jason Bassford
8,4951926
edited Aug 9 at 1:32
answered Aug 9 at 0:28
Jason Bassford
8,4951926
answered Aug 9 at 0:28
Jason Bassford
8,4951926
answered Aug 9 at 0:28
Jason Bassford
8,4951926
8,4951926
That is the first result of searching "Olympics plural" :D
– é©¬åŒ–è…¾
Aug 9 at 0:46
Does that mean that it should be the Olympic's, given that it's a contraction? I'm only half kidding, but I'm definitely going to start using that to the people in my life irritated by misplaced apostrophes.
– Yann
Aug 9 at 6:46
Is gymnastics plural too?
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:16
2
@Yann just because it is a contraction does not imply an apostrophe. The plural of "games" goes to the word "Olympics". It is not like "it's" where the letters of the following word, "is" or "has", is dropped. It is not that the letters "game" are dropped here.
– rexkogitans
Aug 9 at 12:49
2
@LightnessRacesinOrbit “These games were ...†is plural. If it were singular, it would read “This games was ...â€Â.
– Emil Jeřábek
Aug 9 at 17:14
 |Â
show 2 more comments
That is the first result of searching "Olympics plural" :D
– é©¬åŒ–è…¾
Aug 9 at 0:46
Does that mean that it should be the Olympic's, given that it's a contraction? I'm only half kidding, but I'm definitely going to start using that to the people in my life irritated by misplaced apostrophes.
– Yann
Aug 9 at 6:46
Is gymnastics plural too?
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:16
2
@Yann just because it is a contraction does not imply an apostrophe. The plural of "games" goes to the word "Olympics". It is not like "it's" where the letters of the following word, "is" or "has", is dropped. It is not that the letters "game" are dropped here.
– rexkogitans
Aug 9 at 12:49
2
@LightnessRacesinOrbit “These games were ...†is plural. If it were singular, it would read “This games was ...â€Â.
– Emil Jeřábek
Aug 9 at 17:14
That is the first result of searching "Olympics plural" :D
– é©¬åŒ–è…¾
Aug 9 at 0:46
That is the first result of searching "Olympics plural" :D
– é©¬åŒ–è…¾
Aug 9 at 0:46
Does that mean that it should be the Olympic's, given that it's a contraction? I'm only half kidding, but I'm definitely going to start using that to the people in my life irritated by misplaced apostrophes.
– Yann
Aug 9 at 6:46
Does that mean that it should be the Olympic's, given that it's a contraction? I'm only half kidding, but I'm definitely going to start using that to the people in my life irritated by misplaced apostrophes.
– Yann
Aug 9 at 6:46
Is gymnastics plural too?
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:16
Is gymnastics plural too?
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:16
2
2
@Yann just because it is a contraction does not imply an apostrophe. The plural of "games" goes to the word "Olympics". It is not like "it's" where the letters of the following word, "is" or "has", is dropped. It is not that the letters "game" are dropped here.
– rexkogitans
Aug 9 at 12:49
@Yann just because it is a contraction does not imply an apostrophe. The plural of "games" goes to the word "Olympics". It is not like "it's" where the letters of the following word, "is" or "has", is dropped. It is not that the letters "game" are dropped here.
– rexkogitans
Aug 9 at 12:49
2
2
@LightnessRacesinOrbit “These games were ...†is plural. If it were singular, it would read “This games was ...â€Â.
– Emil Jeřábek
Aug 9 at 17:14
@LightnessRacesinOrbit “These games were ...†is plural. If it were singular, it would read “This games was ...â€Â.
– Emil Jeřábek
Aug 9 at 17:14
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
21
down vote
"We at ESL library decided to go with..."
I don't think you can really take such a decision as an authoritative source.
As they say "Olympics" is a collective or, more precisely, uncountable noun. Their mistake is a lack of awareness that uncountable nouns, despite their name, can still either be singular (eg rice, equipment, research) or plural (jeans, police). The Olympics are of the latter group.
edited Aug 10 at 2:30
amalloy
1355
answered Aug 9 at 5:04
Paul Childs
8617
5
Jason Bassford's answer is quite correct, but this answer is better. "The United States" is a phrase that is similar. "The United States" can refer to the singular collective (and so "is" would be appropriate), or as a pluralistic group (so the word "are" would be appropriate). "The United States of America are 50 states that have a governor, two federal senators, and other common characteristics." Also, "The United States is a country of 50 states. Each of these states unite to a large country, but still have their own individual actions."
– TOOGAM
Aug 9 at 13:21
2
This is the better answer. Language is (perhaps regrettably) fluid. "The olympics" is now used to refer to the singlular grouping of many games. But, thanks to that pesky "s" on the end, the grammatical rules are much more complicated to apply.
– JBH
Aug 9 at 17:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
"We at ESL library decided to go with..."
I don't think you can really take such a decision as an authoritative source.
As they say "Olympics" is a collective or, more precisely, uncountable noun. Their mistake is a lack of awareness that uncountable nouns, despite their name, can still either be singular (eg rice, equipment, research) or plural (jeans, police). The Olympics are of the latter group.
edited Aug 10 at 2:30
amalloy
1355
answered Aug 9 at 5:04
Paul Childs
8617
5
Jason Bassford's answer is quite correct, but this answer is better. "The United States" is a phrase that is similar. "The United States" can refer to the singular collective (and so "is" would be appropriate), or as a pluralistic group (so the word "are" would be appropriate). "The United States of America are 50 states that have a governor, two federal senators, and other common characteristics." Also, "The United States is a country of 50 states. Each of these states unite to a large country, but still have their own individual actions."
– TOOGAM
Aug 9 at 13:21
2
This is the better answer. Language is (perhaps regrettably) fluid. "The olympics" is now used to refer to the singlular grouping of many games. But, thanks to that pesky "s" on the end, the grammatical rules are much more complicated to apply.
– JBH
Aug 9 at 17:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
21
down vote
up vote
21
down vote
"We at ESL library decided to go with..."
I don't think you can really take such a decision as an authoritative source.
As they say "Olympics" is a collective or, more precisely, uncountable noun. Their mistake is a lack of awareness that uncountable nouns, despite their name, can still either be singular (eg rice, equipment, research) or plural (jeans, police). The Olympics are of the latter group.
edited Aug 10 at 2:30
amalloy
1355
answered Aug 9 at 5:04
Paul Childs
8617
"We at ESL library decided to go with..."
I don't think you can really take such a decision as an authoritative source.
As they say "Olympics" is a collective or, more precisely, uncountable noun. Their mistake is a lack of awareness that uncountable nouns, despite their name, can still either be singular (eg rice, equipment, research) or plural (jeans, police). The Olympics are of the latter group.
edited Aug 10 at 2:30
amalloy
1355
answered Aug 9 at 5:04
Paul Childs
8617
edited Aug 10 at 2:30
amalloy
1355
edited Aug 10 at 2:30
amalloy
1355
edited Aug 10 at 2:30
amalloy
1355
1355
answered Aug 9 at 5:04
Paul Childs
8617
answered Aug 9 at 5:04
Paul Childs
8617
answered Aug 9 at 5:04
Paul Childs
8617
8617
5
Jason Bassford's answer is quite correct, but this answer is better. "The United States" is a phrase that is similar. "The United States" can refer to the singular collective (and so "is" would be appropriate), or as a pluralistic group (so the word "are" would be appropriate). "The United States of America are 50 states that have a governor, two federal senators, and other common characteristics." Also, "The United States is a country of 50 states. Each of these states unite to a large country, but still have their own individual actions."
– TOOGAM
Aug 9 at 13:21
2
This is the better answer. Language is (perhaps regrettably) fluid. "The olympics" is now used to refer to the singlular grouping of many games. But, thanks to that pesky "s" on the end, the grammatical rules are much more complicated to apply.
– JBH
Aug 9 at 17:36
add a comment |Â
5
Jason Bassford's answer is quite correct, but this answer is better. "The United States" is a phrase that is similar. "The United States" can refer to the singular collective (and so "is" would be appropriate), or as a pluralistic group (so the word "are" would be appropriate). "The United States of America are 50 states that have a governor, two federal senators, and other common characteristics." Also, "The United States is a country of 50 states. Each of these states unite to a large country, but still have their own individual actions."
– TOOGAM
Aug 9 at 13:21
2
This is the better answer. Language is (perhaps regrettably) fluid. "The olympics" is now used to refer to the singlular grouping of many games. But, thanks to that pesky "s" on the end, the grammatical rules are much more complicated to apply.
– JBH
Aug 9 at 17:36
5
5
Jason Bassford's answer is quite correct, but this answer is better. "The United States" is a phrase that is similar. "The United States" can refer to the singular collective (and so "is" would be appropriate), or as a pluralistic group (so the word "are" would be appropriate). "The United States of America are 50 states that have a governor, two federal senators, and other common characteristics." Also, "The United States is a country of 50 states. Each of these states unite to a large country, but still have their own individual actions."
– TOOGAM
Aug 9 at 13:21
Jason Bassford's answer is quite correct, but this answer is better. "The United States" is a phrase that is similar. "The United States" can refer to the singular collective (and so "is" would be appropriate), or as a pluralistic group (so the word "are" would be appropriate). "The United States of America are 50 states that have a governor, two federal senators, and other common characteristics." Also, "The United States is a country of 50 states. Each of these states unite to a large country, but still have their own individual actions."
– TOOGAM
Aug 9 at 13:21
2
2
This is the better answer. Language is (perhaps regrettably) fluid. "The olympics" is now used to refer to the singlular grouping of many games. But, thanks to that pesky "s" on the end, the grammatical rules are much more complicated to apply.
– JBH
Aug 9 at 17:36
This is the better answer. Language is (perhaps regrettably) fluid. "The olympics" is now used to refer to the singlular grouping of many games. But, thanks to that pesky "s" on the end, the grammatical rules are much more complicated to apply.
– JBH
Aug 9 at 17:36
add a comment |Â
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3
Take your pick: books.google.com/ngrams/…
– TᴚoɯÉÂuo
Aug 9 at 12:17
The blog shows how variable the definition of "Olympics" can be. For example, the author writes "each Olympics" at one point, apparently implying that the Olympic Games held in 2016 (for example) constituted "one Olympics." But Olympics can also refer to the entire series.
– David K
Aug 9 at 13:17
6
The key phrase is "we decided". ESL Library is one group of people. Other groups have decided different things, or just flip-flop on a whim. So the premise of the question is flawed (though the question itself may have value regardless).
– Lightness Races in Orbit
Aug 9 at 15:19