Do I have to sit again for TOEFL? [closed]

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4
down vote

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I want to apply for (top) US Phd programs until this December for being potentially admitted in September 2019.



This personal information is relevant to my question:



  • Bachelors in non English-speaking country (Sept 2013-June 2016)

  • TOEFL exams (Sept 2015 - Overall score: 106)

  • Masters in UK (Sept 2016 - August 2017)

  • Working in UK (Oct 2017 - present)

Do I have to sit again for TOEFL to apply for US Phd programs this year even though I sat successfully for TOEFL in September 2015 and even though since September 2016 I am living, studying and working in UK?



P.S.
If yes then this does not make any sense....haha....







share|improve this question














closed as off-topic by Brian Borchers, Buzz, user3209815, Scientist, aeismail♦ Aug 10 at 13:35


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave these specific reasons:


  • "The answer to this question strongly depends on individual factors such as a certain person’s preferences, a given institution’s regulations, the exact contents of your work or your personal values. Thus only someone familiar can answer this question and it cannot be generalised to apply to others. (See this discussion for more info.)" – Brian Borchers, Buzz, aeismail

  • "This question is not within the scope of this site as defined in the help center. Our scope particularly excludes the content of research, education outside of a university setting, and undergraduate admissions, life, and culture." – user3209815, Scientist

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.








  • 2




    It depends on how long the scores are valid for.
    – Sean Roberson
    Aug 9 at 20:03






  • 1




    English language certifications are an extortionate business. They cost a lot, last a short time, and they require a lot of "studying to the test" to pass. Don't expect it to make sense.
    – Federico Poloni
    Aug 10 at 1:11










  • Ask them? I know of a guy who was asked to take it after he made his PhD in the UK and passed the interview. Sometimes is bureaucratically mandatory.
    – Ander Biguri
    Aug 10 at 8:41










  • I still find the entire TOEFL thing extremely peculiar, I have never had to take a similar test in my entire professional/academic life shrug.
    – Bas Jansen
    Aug 10 at 13:33














up vote
4
down vote

favorite












I want to apply for (top) US Phd programs until this December for being potentially admitted in September 2019.



This personal information is relevant to my question:



  • Bachelors in non English-speaking country (Sept 2013-June 2016)

  • TOEFL exams (Sept 2015 - Overall score: 106)

  • Masters in UK (Sept 2016 - August 2017)

  • Working in UK (Oct 2017 - present)

Do I have to sit again for TOEFL to apply for US Phd programs this year even though I sat successfully for TOEFL in September 2015 and even though since September 2016 I am living, studying and working in UK?



P.S.
If yes then this does not make any sense....haha....







share|improve this question














closed as off-topic by Brian Borchers, Buzz, user3209815, Scientist, aeismail♦ Aug 10 at 13:35


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave these specific reasons:


  • "The answer to this question strongly depends on individual factors such as a certain person’s preferences, a given institution’s regulations, the exact contents of your work or your personal values. Thus only someone familiar can answer this question and it cannot be generalised to apply to others. (See this discussion for more info.)" – Brian Borchers, Buzz, aeismail

  • "This question is not within the scope of this site as defined in the help center. Our scope particularly excludes the content of research, education outside of a university setting, and undergraduate admissions, life, and culture." – user3209815, Scientist

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.








  • 2




    It depends on how long the scores are valid for.
    – Sean Roberson
    Aug 9 at 20:03






  • 1




    English language certifications are an extortionate business. They cost a lot, last a short time, and they require a lot of "studying to the test" to pass. Don't expect it to make sense.
    – Federico Poloni
    Aug 10 at 1:11










  • Ask them? I know of a guy who was asked to take it after he made his PhD in the UK and passed the interview. Sometimes is bureaucratically mandatory.
    – Ander Biguri
    Aug 10 at 8:41










  • I still find the entire TOEFL thing extremely peculiar, I have never had to take a similar test in my entire professional/academic life shrug.
    – Bas Jansen
    Aug 10 at 13:33












up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











I want to apply for (top) US Phd programs until this December for being potentially admitted in September 2019.



This personal information is relevant to my question:



  • Bachelors in non English-speaking country (Sept 2013-June 2016)

  • TOEFL exams (Sept 2015 - Overall score: 106)

  • Masters in UK (Sept 2016 - August 2017)

  • Working in UK (Oct 2017 - present)

Do I have to sit again for TOEFL to apply for US Phd programs this year even though I sat successfully for TOEFL in September 2015 and even though since September 2016 I am living, studying and working in UK?



P.S.
If yes then this does not make any sense....haha....







share|improve this question














I want to apply for (top) US Phd programs until this December for being potentially admitted in September 2019.



This personal information is relevant to my question:



  • Bachelors in non English-speaking country (Sept 2013-June 2016)

  • TOEFL exams (Sept 2015 - Overall score: 106)

  • Masters in UK (Sept 2016 - August 2017)

  • Working in UK (Oct 2017 - present)

Do I have to sit again for TOEFL to apply for US Phd programs this year even though I sat successfully for TOEFL in September 2015 and even though since September 2016 I am living, studying and working in UK?



P.S.
If yes then this does not make any sense....haha....









share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Aug 10 at 0:16

























asked Aug 9 at 19:59









Poete Maudit

1213




1213




closed as off-topic by Brian Borchers, Buzz, user3209815, Scientist, aeismail♦ Aug 10 at 13:35


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave these specific reasons:


  • "The answer to this question strongly depends on individual factors such as a certain person’s preferences, a given institution’s regulations, the exact contents of your work or your personal values. Thus only someone familiar can answer this question and it cannot be generalised to apply to others. (See this discussion for more info.)" – Brian Borchers, Buzz, aeismail

  • "This question is not within the scope of this site as defined in the help center. Our scope particularly excludes the content of research, education outside of a university setting, and undergraduate admissions, life, and culture." – user3209815, Scientist

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.




closed as off-topic by Brian Borchers, Buzz, user3209815, Scientist, aeismail♦ Aug 10 at 13:35


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave these specific reasons:


  • "The answer to this question strongly depends on individual factors such as a certain person’s preferences, a given institution’s regulations, the exact contents of your work or your personal values. Thus only someone familiar can answer this question and it cannot be generalised to apply to others. (See this discussion for more info.)" – Brian Borchers, Buzz, aeismail

  • "This question is not within the scope of this site as defined in the help center. Our scope particularly excludes the content of research, education outside of a university setting, and undergraduate admissions, life, and culture." – user3209815, Scientist

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







  • 2




    It depends on how long the scores are valid for.
    – Sean Roberson
    Aug 9 at 20:03






  • 1




    English language certifications are an extortionate business. They cost a lot, last a short time, and they require a lot of "studying to the test" to pass. Don't expect it to make sense.
    – Federico Poloni
    Aug 10 at 1:11










  • Ask them? I know of a guy who was asked to take it after he made his PhD in the UK and passed the interview. Sometimes is bureaucratically mandatory.
    – Ander Biguri
    Aug 10 at 8:41










  • I still find the entire TOEFL thing extremely peculiar, I have never had to take a similar test in my entire professional/academic life shrug.
    – Bas Jansen
    Aug 10 at 13:33












  • 2




    It depends on how long the scores are valid for.
    – Sean Roberson
    Aug 9 at 20:03






  • 1




    English language certifications are an extortionate business. They cost a lot, last a short time, and they require a lot of "studying to the test" to pass. Don't expect it to make sense.
    – Federico Poloni
    Aug 10 at 1:11










  • Ask them? I know of a guy who was asked to take it after he made his PhD in the UK and passed the interview. Sometimes is bureaucratically mandatory.
    – Ander Biguri
    Aug 10 at 8:41










  • I still find the entire TOEFL thing extremely peculiar, I have never had to take a similar test in my entire professional/academic life shrug.
    – Bas Jansen
    Aug 10 at 13:33







2




2




It depends on how long the scores are valid for.
– Sean Roberson
Aug 9 at 20:03




It depends on how long the scores are valid for.
– Sean Roberson
Aug 9 at 20:03




1




1




English language certifications are an extortionate business. They cost a lot, last a short time, and they require a lot of "studying to the test" to pass. Don't expect it to make sense.
– Federico Poloni
Aug 10 at 1:11




English language certifications are an extortionate business. They cost a lot, last a short time, and they require a lot of "studying to the test" to pass. Don't expect it to make sense.
– Federico Poloni
Aug 10 at 1:11












Ask them? I know of a guy who was asked to take it after he made his PhD in the UK and passed the interview. Sometimes is bureaucratically mandatory.
– Ander Biguri
Aug 10 at 8:41




Ask them? I know of a guy who was asked to take it after he made his PhD in the UK and passed the interview. Sometimes is bureaucratically mandatory.
– Ander Biguri
Aug 10 at 8:41












I still find the entire TOEFL thing extremely peculiar, I have never had to take a similar test in my entire professional/academic life shrug.
– Bas Jansen
Aug 10 at 13:33




I still find the entire TOEFL thing extremely peculiar, I have never had to take a similar test in my entire professional/academic life shrug.
– Bas Jansen
Aug 10 at 13:33










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
4
down vote













TOEFL is only good for 2 years, your current 106 has already expired in 2017 September.



When you apply, ask the admission office what are the criteria for a TOEFL waiver. Ask if a 106 in 2015 (not a bad score itself) and a Master degree in UK can fulfill that requirement.






share|improve this answer



























    up vote
    3
    down vote













    In general this policy is set per-University and sometimes per degree program, so its impossible to give a one-size-fits-all yes/no answer to your question. However, in general every program should explicitly specify on their website about materials required (such as a TOEFL score), including information about who (and how) you can be either exempt from providing a TOEFL score or whether or not your current score can be accepted.



    However, if you are specifically referring to the TOEFL iBT, the ETS states that they are only valid for 2 years:




    TOEFL scores are valid for 2 years after the test date and there is no
    limit to the number of times you can take the test, but you cannot
    take it more than once in a 12-day period.




    As for officially stated policies of a University, as an example from the University of Michigan's College of Engineering international graduate student's requirements (2018):




    Exceptions to the English proficiency tests include only lifetime
    residents of Australia, Canada (other than Quebec), New Zealand,
    United Kingdom or the United States (other than Puerto Rico). Students
    who have recently and successfully completed at least 4 years of
    rigorous academic studies in one of the countries listed might also be
    exempted if SAT critical reading scores are in the mid-600 range.



    Applicants that meet the above criteria and wish to request an
    exemption from the English proficiency requirement must present SAT
    scores and send a written request containing full name...



    ...



    Test scores are valid for two years from the date an application is
    received. Expired scores will not be accepted.




    So for this specific program, you would need a more up-to-date TOEFL score according to official published policy, as your scores are more than 2 years old. You would also not meet the requirement of "at least 4 years of rigorous study" in the UK, so you would also be less likely to be given a waiver from this requirement.



    You will basically need to check these requirements for every program you wish to apply to, as some programs have more or less stringent requirements.



    Ultimately I could foresee you having 3 options:



    1) Don't apply to programs that won't accept your existing score.



    2) Email the the program, specifying your specific situation, and ask if your existing information would be acceptable.



    3) Take the TOEFL again. It certainly won't be the only part of the process that doesn't seem like it makes any sense! Most programs require the GRE, too - even though it has a reading/writing component in English, most programs will probably still require a fresh TOEFL score.



    A fourth option of "apply anyway and see what happens" is less advisable, as you'll probably be spending 75$+ per application only to have your materials thrown out and no money returned if they decide not to accept your out of date materials. I wouldn't suggest it.






    share|improve this answer



























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      This may well depend on a stipulation made by the program / institution that you are applying to in terms of how recent the results are - they may say within the last 3 months or 6 months or they may not - you need to check with them.






      share|improve this answer




















      • And they may also waive the requirement for TOEFL entirely, given that the asker has already obtained a degree in and worked in an English-speaking country.
        – David Richerby
        Aug 10 at 11:29

















      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      4
      down vote













      TOEFL is only good for 2 years, your current 106 has already expired in 2017 September.



      When you apply, ask the admission office what are the criteria for a TOEFL waiver. Ask if a 106 in 2015 (not a bad score itself) and a Master degree in UK can fulfill that requirement.






      share|improve this answer
























        up vote
        4
        down vote













        TOEFL is only good for 2 years, your current 106 has already expired in 2017 September.



        When you apply, ask the admission office what are the criteria for a TOEFL waiver. Ask if a 106 in 2015 (not a bad score itself) and a Master degree in UK can fulfill that requirement.






        share|improve this answer






















          up vote
          4
          down vote










          up vote
          4
          down vote









          TOEFL is only good for 2 years, your current 106 has already expired in 2017 September.



          When you apply, ask the admission office what are the criteria for a TOEFL waiver. Ask if a 106 in 2015 (not a bad score itself) and a Master degree in UK can fulfill that requirement.






          share|improve this answer












          TOEFL is only good for 2 years, your current 106 has already expired in 2017 September.



          When you apply, ask the admission office what are the criteria for a TOEFL waiver. Ask if a 106 in 2015 (not a bad score itself) and a Master degree in UK can fulfill that requirement.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Aug 9 at 20:15









          Penguin_Knight

          18.4k4288




          18.4k4288




















              up vote
              3
              down vote













              In general this policy is set per-University and sometimes per degree program, so its impossible to give a one-size-fits-all yes/no answer to your question. However, in general every program should explicitly specify on their website about materials required (such as a TOEFL score), including information about who (and how) you can be either exempt from providing a TOEFL score or whether or not your current score can be accepted.



              However, if you are specifically referring to the TOEFL iBT, the ETS states that they are only valid for 2 years:




              TOEFL scores are valid for 2 years after the test date and there is no
              limit to the number of times you can take the test, but you cannot
              take it more than once in a 12-day period.




              As for officially stated policies of a University, as an example from the University of Michigan's College of Engineering international graduate student's requirements (2018):




              Exceptions to the English proficiency tests include only lifetime
              residents of Australia, Canada (other than Quebec), New Zealand,
              United Kingdom or the United States (other than Puerto Rico). Students
              who have recently and successfully completed at least 4 years of
              rigorous academic studies in one of the countries listed might also be
              exempted if SAT critical reading scores are in the mid-600 range.



              Applicants that meet the above criteria and wish to request an
              exemption from the English proficiency requirement must present SAT
              scores and send a written request containing full name...



              ...



              Test scores are valid for two years from the date an application is
              received. Expired scores will not be accepted.




              So for this specific program, you would need a more up-to-date TOEFL score according to official published policy, as your scores are more than 2 years old. You would also not meet the requirement of "at least 4 years of rigorous study" in the UK, so you would also be less likely to be given a waiver from this requirement.



              You will basically need to check these requirements for every program you wish to apply to, as some programs have more or less stringent requirements.



              Ultimately I could foresee you having 3 options:



              1) Don't apply to programs that won't accept your existing score.



              2) Email the the program, specifying your specific situation, and ask if your existing information would be acceptable.



              3) Take the TOEFL again. It certainly won't be the only part of the process that doesn't seem like it makes any sense! Most programs require the GRE, too - even though it has a reading/writing component in English, most programs will probably still require a fresh TOEFL score.



              A fourth option of "apply anyway and see what happens" is less advisable, as you'll probably be spending 75$+ per application only to have your materials thrown out and no money returned if they decide not to accept your out of date materials. I wouldn't suggest it.






              share|improve this answer
























                up vote
                3
                down vote













                In general this policy is set per-University and sometimes per degree program, so its impossible to give a one-size-fits-all yes/no answer to your question. However, in general every program should explicitly specify on their website about materials required (such as a TOEFL score), including information about who (and how) you can be either exempt from providing a TOEFL score or whether or not your current score can be accepted.



                However, if you are specifically referring to the TOEFL iBT, the ETS states that they are only valid for 2 years:




                TOEFL scores are valid for 2 years after the test date and there is no
                limit to the number of times you can take the test, but you cannot
                take it more than once in a 12-day period.




                As for officially stated policies of a University, as an example from the University of Michigan's College of Engineering international graduate student's requirements (2018):




                Exceptions to the English proficiency tests include only lifetime
                residents of Australia, Canada (other than Quebec), New Zealand,
                United Kingdom or the United States (other than Puerto Rico). Students
                who have recently and successfully completed at least 4 years of
                rigorous academic studies in one of the countries listed might also be
                exempted if SAT critical reading scores are in the mid-600 range.



                Applicants that meet the above criteria and wish to request an
                exemption from the English proficiency requirement must present SAT
                scores and send a written request containing full name...



                ...



                Test scores are valid for two years from the date an application is
                received. Expired scores will not be accepted.




                So for this specific program, you would need a more up-to-date TOEFL score according to official published policy, as your scores are more than 2 years old. You would also not meet the requirement of "at least 4 years of rigorous study" in the UK, so you would also be less likely to be given a waiver from this requirement.



                You will basically need to check these requirements for every program you wish to apply to, as some programs have more or less stringent requirements.



                Ultimately I could foresee you having 3 options:



                1) Don't apply to programs that won't accept your existing score.



                2) Email the the program, specifying your specific situation, and ask if your existing information would be acceptable.



                3) Take the TOEFL again. It certainly won't be the only part of the process that doesn't seem like it makes any sense! Most programs require the GRE, too - even though it has a reading/writing component in English, most programs will probably still require a fresh TOEFL score.



                A fourth option of "apply anyway and see what happens" is less advisable, as you'll probably be spending 75$+ per application only to have your materials thrown out and no money returned if they decide not to accept your out of date materials. I wouldn't suggest it.






                share|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote









                  In general this policy is set per-University and sometimes per degree program, so its impossible to give a one-size-fits-all yes/no answer to your question. However, in general every program should explicitly specify on their website about materials required (such as a TOEFL score), including information about who (and how) you can be either exempt from providing a TOEFL score or whether or not your current score can be accepted.



                  However, if you are specifically referring to the TOEFL iBT, the ETS states that they are only valid for 2 years:




                  TOEFL scores are valid for 2 years after the test date and there is no
                  limit to the number of times you can take the test, but you cannot
                  take it more than once in a 12-day period.




                  As for officially stated policies of a University, as an example from the University of Michigan's College of Engineering international graduate student's requirements (2018):




                  Exceptions to the English proficiency tests include only lifetime
                  residents of Australia, Canada (other than Quebec), New Zealand,
                  United Kingdom or the United States (other than Puerto Rico). Students
                  who have recently and successfully completed at least 4 years of
                  rigorous academic studies in one of the countries listed might also be
                  exempted if SAT critical reading scores are in the mid-600 range.



                  Applicants that meet the above criteria and wish to request an
                  exemption from the English proficiency requirement must present SAT
                  scores and send a written request containing full name...



                  ...



                  Test scores are valid for two years from the date an application is
                  received. Expired scores will not be accepted.




                  So for this specific program, you would need a more up-to-date TOEFL score according to official published policy, as your scores are more than 2 years old. You would also not meet the requirement of "at least 4 years of rigorous study" in the UK, so you would also be less likely to be given a waiver from this requirement.



                  You will basically need to check these requirements for every program you wish to apply to, as some programs have more or less stringent requirements.



                  Ultimately I could foresee you having 3 options:



                  1) Don't apply to programs that won't accept your existing score.



                  2) Email the the program, specifying your specific situation, and ask if your existing information would be acceptable.



                  3) Take the TOEFL again. It certainly won't be the only part of the process that doesn't seem like it makes any sense! Most programs require the GRE, too - even though it has a reading/writing component in English, most programs will probably still require a fresh TOEFL score.



                  A fourth option of "apply anyway and see what happens" is less advisable, as you'll probably be spending 75$+ per application only to have your materials thrown out and no money returned if they decide not to accept your out of date materials. I wouldn't suggest it.






                  share|improve this answer












                  In general this policy is set per-University and sometimes per degree program, so its impossible to give a one-size-fits-all yes/no answer to your question. However, in general every program should explicitly specify on their website about materials required (such as a TOEFL score), including information about who (and how) you can be either exempt from providing a TOEFL score or whether or not your current score can be accepted.



                  However, if you are specifically referring to the TOEFL iBT, the ETS states that they are only valid for 2 years:




                  TOEFL scores are valid for 2 years after the test date and there is no
                  limit to the number of times you can take the test, but you cannot
                  take it more than once in a 12-day period.




                  As for officially stated policies of a University, as an example from the University of Michigan's College of Engineering international graduate student's requirements (2018):




                  Exceptions to the English proficiency tests include only lifetime
                  residents of Australia, Canada (other than Quebec), New Zealand,
                  United Kingdom or the United States (other than Puerto Rico). Students
                  who have recently and successfully completed at least 4 years of
                  rigorous academic studies in one of the countries listed might also be
                  exempted if SAT critical reading scores are in the mid-600 range.



                  Applicants that meet the above criteria and wish to request an
                  exemption from the English proficiency requirement must present SAT
                  scores and send a written request containing full name...



                  ...



                  Test scores are valid for two years from the date an application is
                  received. Expired scores will not be accepted.




                  So for this specific program, you would need a more up-to-date TOEFL score according to official published policy, as your scores are more than 2 years old. You would also not meet the requirement of "at least 4 years of rigorous study" in the UK, so you would also be less likely to be given a waiver from this requirement.



                  You will basically need to check these requirements for every program you wish to apply to, as some programs have more or less stringent requirements.



                  Ultimately I could foresee you having 3 options:



                  1) Don't apply to programs that won't accept your existing score.



                  2) Email the the program, specifying your specific situation, and ask if your existing information would be acceptable.



                  3) Take the TOEFL again. It certainly won't be the only part of the process that doesn't seem like it makes any sense! Most programs require the GRE, too - even though it has a reading/writing component in English, most programs will probably still require a fresh TOEFL score.



                  A fourth option of "apply anyway and see what happens" is less advisable, as you'll probably be spending 75$+ per application only to have your materials thrown out and no money returned if they decide not to accept your out of date materials. I wouldn't suggest it.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Aug 9 at 20:16









                  BrianH

                  15.9k53967




                  15.9k53967




















                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote













                      This may well depend on a stipulation made by the program / institution that you are applying to in terms of how recent the results are - they may say within the last 3 months or 6 months or they may not - you need to check with them.






                      share|improve this answer




















                      • And they may also waive the requirement for TOEFL entirely, given that the asker has already obtained a degree in and worked in an English-speaking country.
                        – David Richerby
                        Aug 10 at 11:29














                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote













                      This may well depend on a stipulation made by the program / institution that you are applying to in terms of how recent the results are - they may say within the last 3 months or 6 months or they may not - you need to check with them.






                      share|improve this answer




















                      • And they may also waive the requirement for TOEFL entirely, given that the asker has already obtained a degree in and worked in an English-speaking country.
                        – David Richerby
                        Aug 10 at 11:29












                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote









                      This may well depend on a stipulation made by the program / institution that you are applying to in terms of how recent the results are - they may say within the last 3 months or 6 months or they may not - you need to check with them.






                      share|improve this answer












                      This may well depend on a stipulation made by the program / institution that you are applying to in terms of how recent the results are - they may say within the last 3 months or 6 months or they may not - you need to check with them.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Aug 9 at 20:10









                      Solar Mike

                      7,92921936




                      7,92921936











                      • And they may also waive the requirement for TOEFL entirely, given that the asker has already obtained a degree in and worked in an English-speaking country.
                        – David Richerby
                        Aug 10 at 11:29
















                      • And they may also waive the requirement for TOEFL entirely, given that the asker has already obtained a degree in and worked in an English-speaking country.
                        – David Richerby
                        Aug 10 at 11:29















                      And they may also waive the requirement for TOEFL entirely, given that the asker has already obtained a degree in and worked in an English-speaking country.
                      – David Richerby
                      Aug 10 at 11:29




                      And they may also waive the requirement for TOEFL entirely, given that the asker has already obtained a degree in and worked in an English-speaking country.
                      – David Richerby
                      Aug 10 at 11:29


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