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Why ordinal number has been used in “fourth helpings at every meal�
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Mrs Weasley fussed over the state of his socks and tried to force him to eat fourth helpings at every meal.
The word "helping" is a countable noun, meaning a single portion of food taken at a meal. So, I might think four helpings at every meal seems to be more reasonable. On the other hand, usually the ordinal number is preceded by the definite article "the", like "the fourth helpings". Any thoughts?
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edited 27 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
asked 57 mins ago
dan
2,62821747
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Mrs Weasley fussed over the state of his socks and tried to force him to eat fourth helpings at every meal.
The word "helping" is a countable noun, meaning a single portion of food taken at a meal. So, I might think four helpings at every meal seems to be more reasonable. On the other hand, usually the ordinal number is preceded by the definite article "the", like "the fourth helpings". Any thoughts?
articles numbers
edited 27 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
asked 57 mins ago
dan
2,62821747
2
Ordinals are commonly used when discussing helpings at mealtimes in Britain, especially school meals, where an extra helping can be called "seconds" or more formally "a second helping". She tried to make him eat "fourths", having already succeeded with seconds and thirds.
– Michael Harvey
43 mins ago
The lack of a definite article is entirely appropriate.
– Michael Harvey
40 mins ago
1
"Helping" is one of those weird words which must be in addition to the first serving. There is no such thing as "first helpings". As such, I think second/third/fourth helpings would tend to suggest "fourth of several helpings" and therefore plural. Though maybe this is just specious reasoning.
– Neil
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Mrs Weasley fussed over the state of his socks and tried to force him to eat fourth helpings at every meal.
The word "helping" is a countable noun, meaning a single portion of food taken at a meal. So, I might think four helpings at every meal seems to be more reasonable. On the other hand, usually the ordinal number is preceded by the definite article "the", like "the fourth helpings". Any thoughts?
articles numbers
edited 27 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
asked 57 mins ago
dan
2,62821747
Mrs Weasley fussed over the state of his socks and tried to force him to eat fourth helpings at every meal.
The word "helping" is a countable noun, meaning a single portion of food taken at a meal. So, I might think four helpings at every meal seems to be more reasonable. On the other hand, usually the ordinal number is preceded by the definite article "the", like "the fourth helpings". Any thoughts?
articles numbers
articles numbers
edited 27 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
asked 57 mins ago
dan
2,62821747
edited 27 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
asked 57 mins ago
dan
2,62821747
edited 27 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
edited 27 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
edited 27 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
59.5k566131
asked 57 mins ago
dan
2,62821747
asked 57 mins ago
dan
2,62821747
asked 57 mins ago
dan
2,62821747
2,62821747
2
Ordinals are commonly used when discussing helpings at mealtimes in Britain, especially school meals, where an extra helping can be called "seconds" or more formally "a second helping". She tried to make him eat "fourths", having already succeeded with seconds and thirds.
– Michael Harvey
43 mins ago
The lack of a definite article is entirely appropriate.
– Michael Harvey
40 mins ago
1
"Helping" is one of those weird words which must be in addition to the first serving. There is no such thing as "first helpings". As such, I think second/third/fourth helpings would tend to suggest "fourth of several helpings" and therefore plural. Though maybe this is just specious reasoning.
– Neil
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
2
Ordinals are commonly used when discussing helpings at mealtimes in Britain, especially school meals, where an extra helping can be called "seconds" or more formally "a second helping". She tried to make him eat "fourths", having already succeeded with seconds and thirds.
– Michael Harvey
43 mins ago
The lack of a definite article is entirely appropriate.
– Michael Harvey
40 mins ago
1
"Helping" is one of those weird words which must be in addition to the first serving. There is no such thing as "first helpings". As such, I think second/third/fourth helpings would tend to suggest "fourth of several helpings" and therefore plural. Though maybe this is just specious reasoning.
– Neil
18 mins ago
2
2
Ordinals are commonly used when discussing helpings at mealtimes in Britain, especially school meals, where an extra helping can be called "seconds" or more formally "a second helping". She tried to make him eat "fourths", having already succeeded with seconds and thirds.
– Michael Harvey
43 mins ago
Ordinals are commonly used when discussing helpings at mealtimes in Britain, especially school meals, where an extra helping can be called "seconds" or more formally "a second helping". She tried to make him eat "fourths", having already succeeded with seconds and thirds.
– Michael Harvey
43 mins ago
The lack of a definite article is entirely appropriate.
– Michael Harvey
40 mins ago
The lack of a definite article is entirely appropriate.
– Michael Harvey
40 mins ago
1
1
"Helping" is one of those weird words which must be in addition to the first serving. There is no such thing as "first helpings". As such, I think second/third/fourth helpings would tend to suggest "fourth of several helpings" and therefore plural. Though maybe this is just specious reasoning.
– Neil
18 mins ago
"Helping" is one of those weird words which must be in addition to the first serving. There is no such thing as "first helpings". As such, I think second/third/fourth helpings would tend to suggest "fourth of several helpings" and therefore plural. Though maybe this is just specious reasoning.
– Neil
18 mins ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Compare:
Would you like a second helping?
or
No second helpings! We are saving the rest of the cake for your cousins, who will be back from the game momentarily.
Without the article the ordinal is a determiner, here referring to a specific helping in the sequence of helpings.
answered 46 mins ago
TᴚoɯÉÂuo
99k671165
Can we also put "force him to eat a fourth helping at every meal"?
– dan
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I think that the expression is related to
second helping
A second portion of the same thing, usually of food; seconds; refill.
He had already eaten six sausages, but that did not stop him reaching
for a second helping.
If we extrapolate a bit, we can conclude that Mrs Weasley was trying to force Harry to eat four times each dish served per meal: the original, the second helping, the third helping and the fourth helping. Remember that they think that he was starving before they rescue him from the Dursleys.
answered 44 mins ago
RubioRic
3,1841829
It might be a bit diferent in this case. It put "fourth helpings", instead of "fourth helping".
– dan
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
You are correct that "four helpings every meal" is probably more grammatical. This particular use refers to the common idiomatic expression "second helping", meaning a second portion of whatever was served the first time around.
"Would anyone like a second helping?" Mom asked, standing over the table with a full plate of pancakes. We all yelled for more.
"Thirds" and "fourths" are also not uncommon when feeding hungry teenagers.
With this sentence the trick is to recognize that Rowling writes "at every meal", meaning there were multiple meals. At each of these meals Mrs. Weasley offered Harry "a fourth helping" (after, presumably, the first, second and third helpings) -- which, in the plural, becomes "fourth helpings"
answered 19 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
Can we understand this plural in a way that Mrs Weasley offered Harry a fourth helping a day, and since it's multiple days, therefore "fourth helpings at every meal". Does that sound reasonable?
– dan
3 mins ago
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Compare:
Would you like a second helping?
or
No second helpings! We are saving the rest of the cake for your cousins, who will be back from the game momentarily.
Without the article the ordinal is a determiner, here referring to a specific helping in the sequence of helpings.
answered 46 mins ago
TᴚoɯÉÂuo
99k671165
Can we also put "force him to eat a fourth helping at every meal"?
– dan
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Compare:
Would you like a second helping?
or
No second helpings! We are saving the rest of the cake for your cousins, who will be back from the game momentarily.
Without the article the ordinal is a determiner, here referring to a specific helping in the sequence of helpings.
answered 46 mins ago
TᴚoɯÉÂuo
99k671165
Can we also put "force him to eat a fourth helping at every meal"?
– dan
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Compare:
Would you like a second helping?
or
No second helpings! We are saving the rest of the cake for your cousins, who will be back from the game momentarily.
Without the article the ordinal is a determiner, here referring to a specific helping in the sequence of helpings.
answered 46 mins ago
TᴚoɯÉÂuo
99k671165
Compare:
Would you like a second helping?
or
No second helpings! We are saving the rest of the cake for your cousins, who will be back from the game momentarily.
Without the article the ordinal is a determiner, here referring to a specific helping in the sequence of helpings.
answered 46 mins ago
TᴚoɯÉÂuo
99k671165
edited 37 mins ago
answered 46 mins ago
TᴚoɯÉÂuo
99k671165
answered 46 mins ago
TᴚoɯÉÂuo
99k671165
answered 46 mins ago
TᴚoɯÉÂuo
99k671165
99k671165
Can we also put "force him to eat a fourth helping at every meal"?
– dan
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Can we also put "force him to eat a fourth helping at every meal"?
– dan
23 mins ago
Can we also put "force him to eat a fourth helping at every meal"?
– dan
23 mins ago
Can we also put "force him to eat a fourth helping at every meal"?
– dan
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I think that the expression is related to
second helping
A second portion of the same thing, usually of food; seconds; refill.
He had already eaten six sausages, but that did not stop him reaching
for a second helping.
If we extrapolate a bit, we can conclude that Mrs Weasley was trying to force Harry to eat four times each dish served per meal: the original, the second helping, the third helping and the fourth helping. Remember that they think that he was starving before they rescue him from the Dursleys.
answered 44 mins ago
RubioRic
3,1841829
It might be a bit diferent in this case. It put "fourth helpings", instead of "fourth helping".
– dan
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I think that the expression is related to
second helping
A second portion of the same thing, usually of food; seconds; refill.
He had already eaten six sausages, but that did not stop him reaching
for a second helping.
If we extrapolate a bit, we can conclude that Mrs Weasley was trying to force Harry to eat four times each dish served per meal: the original, the second helping, the third helping and the fourth helping. Remember that they think that he was starving before they rescue him from the Dursleys.
answered 44 mins ago
RubioRic
3,1841829
It might be a bit diferent in this case. It put "fourth helpings", instead of "fourth helping".
– dan
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
I think that the expression is related to
second helping
A second portion of the same thing, usually of food; seconds; refill.
He had already eaten six sausages, but that did not stop him reaching
for a second helping.
If we extrapolate a bit, we can conclude that Mrs Weasley was trying to force Harry to eat four times each dish served per meal: the original, the second helping, the third helping and the fourth helping. Remember that they think that he was starving before they rescue him from the Dursleys.
answered 44 mins ago
RubioRic
3,1841829
I think that the expression is related to
second helping
A second portion of the same thing, usually of food; seconds; refill.
He had already eaten six sausages, but that did not stop him reaching
for a second helping.
If we extrapolate a bit, we can conclude that Mrs Weasley was trying to force Harry to eat four times each dish served per meal: the original, the second helping, the third helping and the fourth helping. Remember that they think that he was starving before they rescue him from the Dursleys.
answered 44 mins ago
RubioRic
3,1841829
answered 44 mins ago
RubioRic
3,1841829
answered 44 mins ago
RubioRic
3,1841829
answered 44 mins ago
RubioRic
3,1841829
3,1841829
It might be a bit diferent in this case. It put "fourth helpings", instead of "fourth helping".
– dan
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
It might be a bit diferent in this case. It put "fourth helpings", instead of "fourth helping".
– dan
27 mins ago
It might be a bit diferent in this case. It put "fourth helpings", instead of "fourth helping".
– dan
27 mins ago
It might be a bit diferent in this case. It put "fourth helpings", instead of "fourth helping".
– dan
27 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
You are correct that "four helpings every meal" is probably more grammatical. This particular use refers to the common idiomatic expression "second helping", meaning a second portion of whatever was served the first time around.
"Would anyone like a second helping?" Mom asked, standing over the table with a full plate of pancakes. We all yelled for more.
"Thirds" and "fourths" are also not uncommon when feeding hungry teenagers.
With this sentence the trick is to recognize that Rowling writes "at every meal", meaning there were multiple meals. At each of these meals Mrs. Weasley offered Harry "a fourth helping" (after, presumably, the first, second and third helpings) -- which, in the plural, becomes "fourth helpings"
answered 19 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
Can we understand this plural in a way that Mrs Weasley offered Harry a fourth helping a day, and since it's multiple days, therefore "fourth helpings at every meal". Does that sound reasonable?
– dan
3 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
You are correct that "four helpings every meal" is probably more grammatical. This particular use refers to the common idiomatic expression "second helping", meaning a second portion of whatever was served the first time around.
"Would anyone like a second helping?" Mom asked, standing over the table with a full plate of pancakes. We all yelled for more.
"Thirds" and "fourths" are also not uncommon when feeding hungry teenagers.
With this sentence the trick is to recognize that Rowling writes "at every meal", meaning there were multiple meals. At each of these meals Mrs. Weasley offered Harry "a fourth helping" (after, presumably, the first, second and third helpings) -- which, in the plural, becomes "fourth helpings"
answered 19 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
Can we understand this plural in a way that Mrs Weasley offered Harry a fourth helping a day, and since it's multiple days, therefore "fourth helpings at every meal". Does that sound reasonable?
– dan
3 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
You are correct that "four helpings every meal" is probably more grammatical. This particular use refers to the common idiomatic expression "second helping", meaning a second portion of whatever was served the first time around.
"Would anyone like a second helping?" Mom asked, standing over the table with a full plate of pancakes. We all yelled for more.
"Thirds" and "fourths" are also not uncommon when feeding hungry teenagers.
With this sentence the trick is to recognize that Rowling writes "at every meal", meaning there were multiple meals. At each of these meals Mrs. Weasley offered Harry "a fourth helping" (after, presumably, the first, second and third helpings) -- which, in the plural, becomes "fourth helpings"
answered 19 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
You are correct that "four helpings every meal" is probably more grammatical. This particular use refers to the common idiomatic expression "second helping", meaning a second portion of whatever was served the first time around.
"Would anyone like a second helping?" Mom asked, standing over the table with a full plate of pancakes. We all yelled for more.
"Thirds" and "fourths" are also not uncommon when feeding hungry teenagers.
With this sentence the trick is to recognize that Rowling writes "at every meal", meaning there were multiple meals. At each of these meals Mrs. Weasley offered Harry "a fourth helping" (after, presumably, the first, second and third helpings) -- which, in the plural, becomes "fourth helpings"
answered 19 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
answered 19 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
answered 19 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
answered 19 mins ago
Andrew
59.5k566131
59.5k566131
Can we understand this plural in a way that Mrs Weasley offered Harry a fourth helping a day, and since it's multiple days, therefore "fourth helpings at every meal". Does that sound reasonable?
– dan
3 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Can we understand this plural in a way that Mrs Weasley offered Harry a fourth helping a day, and since it's multiple days, therefore "fourth helpings at every meal". Does that sound reasonable?
– dan
3 mins ago
Can we understand this plural in a way that Mrs Weasley offered Harry a fourth helping a day, and since it's multiple days, therefore "fourth helpings at every meal". Does that sound reasonable?
– dan
3 mins ago
Can we understand this plural in a way that Mrs Weasley offered Harry a fourth helping a day, and since it's multiple days, therefore "fourth helpings at every meal". Does that sound reasonable?
– dan
3 mins ago
add a comment |Â
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2
Ordinals are commonly used when discussing helpings at mealtimes in Britain, especially school meals, where an extra helping can be called "seconds" or more formally "a second helping". She tried to make him eat "fourths", having already succeeded with seconds and thirds.
– Michael Harvey
43 mins ago
The lack of a definite article is entirely appropriate.
– Michael Harvey
40 mins ago
1
"Helping" is one of those weird words which must be in addition to the first serving. There is no such thing as "first helpings". As such, I think second/third/fourth helpings would tend to suggest "fourth of several helpings" and therefore plural. Though maybe this is just specious reasoning.
– Neil
18 mins ago