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My boss wants me to attend a meeting every day before work hours
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My manager at a software company I've worked at for a few years has asked me to join a status update (a standup if you are familiar with agile) meeting daily, before my normal work hours. My boss didn't call this meeting, but a project manager did as he is primarily interested in the status of the issues. This has proven difficult as I'm usually quite busy in the mornings, handling getting myself and my children ready for their day during this time, and for the most part unavailable. I could rearrange my schedule to make it work, I just really don't want to do that.
To make matters worse, this meeting is pointless for me to attend, it is a status update on a project I have very little to do with. Once every few weeks I may actually need to be there to say a few "status update" words. These could easily be summarized during work hours, as they are not time critical.
I tried just not attending, but got caught and he asked me again to join. I've explained my time commitments, and my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
How can I better communicate that I do not wish to waste my time attending this meeting every day?
united-states meetings time-management
edited 11 mins ago
Captain Man
1,18059
asked 9 hours ago
Jay
4,3983934
 |Â
show 9 more comments
up vote
21
down vote
favorite
My manager at a software company I've worked at for a few years has asked me to join a status update (a standup if you are familiar with agile) meeting daily, before my normal work hours. My boss didn't call this meeting, but a project manager did as he is primarily interested in the status of the issues. This has proven difficult as I'm usually quite busy in the mornings, handling getting myself and my children ready for their day during this time, and for the most part unavailable. I could rearrange my schedule to make it work, I just really don't want to do that.
To make matters worse, this meeting is pointless for me to attend, it is a status update on a project I have very little to do with. Once every few weeks I may actually need to be there to say a few "status update" words. These could easily be summarized during work hours, as they are not time critical.
I tried just not attending, but got caught and he asked me again to join. I've explained my time commitments, and my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
How can I better communicate that I do not wish to waste my time attending this meeting every day?
united-states meetings time-management
edited 11 mins ago
Captain Man
1,18059
asked 9 hours ago
Jay
4,3983934
2
What does your boss say about why you should attend? Is your boss the one facilitating the meeting? Does your manager know the inconvenience this causes you?
– Elysian Fields♦
9 hours ago
2
When you say "attend" is this a meeting where you physically have to be there (before work)? Or is this a phone meeting where you dial in?
– DaveG
8 hours ago
2
Is this meeting outside of your normal working hours? Do you have normal working hours?
– Erik
8 hours ago
7
"I will not be attending this meeting."
– Tony Ennis
4 hours ago
2
When you say it's outside your normal work hours -- are your work hours different from those of most others (maybe you've negotiated a later schedule to accomodate your morning responsibilities at home)? Is the meeting within the company's normal work hours?
– Barmar
4 hours ago
 |Â
show 9 more comments
up vote
21
down vote
favorite
up vote
21
down vote
favorite
My manager at a software company I've worked at for a few years has asked me to join a status update (a standup if you are familiar with agile) meeting daily, before my normal work hours. My boss didn't call this meeting, but a project manager did as he is primarily interested in the status of the issues. This has proven difficult as I'm usually quite busy in the mornings, handling getting myself and my children ready for their day during this time, and for the most part unavailable. I could rearrange my schedule to make it work, I just really don't want to do that.
To make matters worse, this meeting is pointless for me to attend, it is a status update on a project I have very little to do with. Once every few weeks I may actually need to be there to say a few "status update" words. These could easily be summarized during work hours, as they are not time critical.
I tried just not attending, but got caught and he asked me again to join. I've explained my time commitments, and my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
How can I better communicate that I do not wish to waste my time attending this meeting every day?
united-states meetings time-management
edited 11 mins ago
Captain Man
1,18059
asked 9 hours ago
Jay
4,3983934
My manager at a software company I've worked at for a few years has asked me to join a status update (a standup if you are familiar with agile) meeting daily, before my normal work hours. My boss didn't call this meeting, but a project manager did as he is primarily interested in the status of the issues. This has proven difficult as I'm usually quite busy in the mornings, handling getting myself and my children ready for their day during this time, and for the most part unavailable. I could rearrange my schedule to make it work, I just really don't want to do that.
To make matters worse, this meeting is pointless for me to attend, it is a status update on a project I have very little to do with. Once every few weeks I may actually need to be there to say a few "status update" words. These could easily be summarized during work hours, as they are not time critical.
I tried just not attending, but got caught and he asked me again to join. I've explained my time commitments, and my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
How can I better communicate that I do not wish to waste my time attending this meeting every day?
united-states meetings time-management
united-states meetings time-management
edited 11 mins ago
Captain Man
1,18059
asked 9 hours ago
Jay
4,3983934
edited 11 mins ago
Captain Man
1,18059
asked 9 hours ago
Jay
4,3983934
edited 11 mins ago
Captain Man
1,18059
edited 11 mins ago
Captain Man
1,18059
edited 11 mins ago
Captain Man
1,18059
1,18059
asked 9 hours ago
Jay
4,3983934
asked 9 hours ago
Jay
4,3983934
asked 9 hours ago
Jay
4,3983934
4,3983934
2
What does your boss say about why you should attend? Is your boss the one facilitating the meeting? Does your manager know the inconvenience this causes you?
– Elysian Fields♦
9 hours ago
2
When you say "attend" is this a meeting where you physically have to be there (before work)? Or is this a phone meeting where you dial in?
– DaveG
8 hours ago
2
Is this meeting outside of your normal working hours? Do you have normal working hours?
– Erik
8 hours ago
7
"I will not be attending this meeting."
– Tony Ennis
4 hours ago
2
When you say it's outside your normal work hours -- are your work hours different from those of most others (maybe you've negotiated a later schedule to accomodate your morning responsibilities at home)? Is the meeting within the company's normal work hours?
– Barmar
4 hours ago
 |Â
show 9 more comments
2
What does your boss say about why you should attend? Is your boss the one facilitating the meeting? Does your manager know the inconvenience this causes you?
– Elysian Fields♦
9 hours ago
2
When you say "attend" is this a meeting where you physically have to be there (before work)? Or is this a phone meeting where you dial in?
– DaveG
8 hours ago
2
Is this meeting outside of your normal working hours? Do you have normal working hours?
– Erik
8 hours ago
7
"I will not be attending this meeting."
– Tony Ennis
4 hours ago
2
When you say it's outside your normal work hours -- are your work hours different from those of most others (maybe you've negotiated a later schedule to accomodate your morning responsibilities at home)? Is the meeting within the company's normal work hours?
– Barmar
4 hours ago
2
2
What does your boss say about why you should attend? Is your boss the one facilitating the meeting? Does your manager know the inconvenience this causes you?
– Elysian Fields♦
9 hours ago
What does your boss say about why you should attend? Is your boss the one facilitating the meeting? Does your manager know the inconvenience this causes you?
– Elysian Fields♦
9 hours ago
2
2
When you say "attend" is this a meeting where you physically have to be there (before work)? Or is this a phone meeting where you dial in?
– DaveG
8 hours ago
When you say "attend" is this a meeting where you physically have to be there (before work)? Or is this a phone meeting where you dial in?
– DaveG
8 hours ago
2
2
Is this meeting outside of your normal working hours? Do you have normal working hours?
– Erik
8 hours ago
Is this meeting outside of your normal working hours? Do you have normal working hours?
– Erik
8 hours ago
7
7
"I will not be attending this meeting."
– Tony Ennis
4 hours ago
"I will not be attending this meeting."
– Tony Ennis
4 hours ago
2
2
When you say it's outside your normal work hours -- are your work hours different from those of most others (maybe you've negotiated a later schedule to accomodate your morning responsibilities at home)? Is the meeting within the company's normal work hours?
– Barmar
4 hours ago
When you say it's outside your normal work hours -- are your work hours different from those of most others (maybe you've negotiated a later schedule to accomodate your morning responsibilities at home)? Is the meeting within the company's normal work hours?
– Barmar
4 hours ago
 |Â
show 9 more comments
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
up vote
65
down vote
Isn't the real problem here that they are asking to have work meetings, outside of work hours? We have daily scrums slightly after the day starts sothat people can get drinks/etc and then do the meeting and focus on their day. I would argue that, given the meetings are for work, they should arrange them at the start of worktime and not before.
Also because they are daily, if for whatever reason they cant do it during your work hours (because its normal work hours for everyone else perhaps?) you could try working out the night before what you want to say and send it to someone that is in the meeting so it can be read out daily as a compromise.
The only reason for mandatory attendance is either so you have visibility on everything that is occurring or for them to discuss issues with you and the former you seem to not require and the latter shouldn't be done in a scrum anyway.
answered 8 hours ago
adamcooney
30113
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25
I agree with this - discussing the usefulness of a meeting is a thing, asking to attend outside work hours is another.
– Liquid
8 hours ago
2
Good answer. Work hours or no meeting that's all
– L_Church
7 hours ago
5
It's possible that this is a global company. One meeting attendee's start time may be another attendee's finish time. The company I work for has flexible hours for this reason - if I need to attend a 10PM meeting on Tuesday, there's no need for me to start work at 9AM.
– James Donnelly
6 hours ago
2
@cdkMoose His comment was related to having the meeting during one location's start time and another location's end time. If it's impossible to schedule a meeting during everyone's work hours, there should be provisions made, it's usually not an ideal solution to tell someone "our company works at different times so you have to work extra uncompensated time".
– JMac
5 hours ago
2
Yo, this is a software company! Normal work hours are therefore a very elastic concept here. It's perfectly possible that Jay's regular working hours are not some other manager's concept of 'normal', and that doesn't make either the work or the meeting invalid.
– George M
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
A few suggestions:
Ask the meeting organizer if you can attend the meeting remotely, over email or chat for example. Send your update the prior evening or at some other convenient time.
Ask the meeting organizer to move the meeting time to accommodate your schedule. If they won't, you can at least inform your supervisor that they didn't which is one way of demonstrating that you might not be needed anyways.
I know that this goes against some people's ideas about Agile, but if your Agile process isn't agile, I'm not sure it's really Agile.
answered 8 hours ago
Glen Pierce
6,26441328
22
From the Agile Manifesto: "People over process".
– David Thornley
8 hours ago
This is the best option I think. Lots of people seem to want you to give your update verbally at the actual time of the meeting so I would suggest just connecting via your phone and use a wireless headset (which I'd try to get my boss to pay for if I didn't already have one). Since it appears the asker doesn't really need to contribute anything or get any benefit from this meeting the fact that they are not really paying attention won't matter. If this option is refused I'd try the "that's not very agile is it?" line on them.
– Eric Nolan
6 hours ago
7
Attending remotely is not the point. OP has stuff to do then, but IMO "move the meeting time" is dead-on!
– G. Ann - SonarSource Team
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
Ugh.. that's immensely irritating - you have my sympathies!
Since it sounds like your boss isn't going to just let this one go completely I'd suggest you offer him a compromise option where you can meet the business objectives but don't actually have to attend.
Try offering to write a status update message for the times when you do have something relevant to say and have that be delivered to whoever is chairing the meeting by close of business the previous day.
If this is really about getting your updates to the team then this should be sufficient from what you've described. If he pushes back on this with vague mumbling about "visibility" or similar then you can counter with the fact that the optics of you being there but "zoned out" (his words) are going to be worse than you not being there in the first place. If on the other hand he pushes back using the old "what if someone has a question?" line then offer that if they e-mail you the question you'll respond to any queries by time x (where time X is during your working day, reasonably early if possible).
answered 9 hours ago
motosubatsu
35.7k1593150
1
Plus see if someone else from your team is regularly in at that early hour, and whether you can trade some other tedious late-afternoon obligation with them, so the team is represented but by a willing party. Even if they know nothing about the project, it's OK as long as you send them an email update every afternoon. The one you'd otherwise be sending that other manager if they were reasonable :-).
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
If the meeting is truly pointless for you, and you cannot contribute (as opposed to being unlikely to contribute), he's probably trying to expand his footprint in the organization, and using you as manpower to do it.
I'd suggest talking to him about his goals of having you attend the meeting, and if he shares them with you, you can gain a lot of favor by attempting to help him achieve them.
That said, you need to also suggest that you further his goals in a way you can sustain. For example, you might suggest that by being late or nearly late to each meeting, you're probably projecting the wrong impression, so instead you'll try to go out to lunch with a few key players, or follow up in ways that can work with your schedule.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,477912
2
Note that if he doesn't share his goals, it will be hard for you to further them. While I wouldn't express that to him, it should tell you a lot about your future performance. You'll be judged against goals that you don't understand. Odds are not good you'll achieve them, and odds are even better that he'll manage by noticing the details of following his instructions (as opposed to the actual achievement of his desires)
– Edwin Buck
8 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
As Agile, everyone's time is supposed to be taken into account. In my team, everyone is usually in the office by 9.30 AM, but there is one person who comes in later due to their daily routine. We scheduled the meeting at a time everyday after their arrival so that everyone is included. I think your manager can do the same and the fact that they are not is just wrong. You should address this with a person above you and the manager.
answered 5 hours ago
Veda
491
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up vote
2
down vote
...my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
The meeting an agile team standup.
One of the key tenets of agile is to maximise productivity by minimising time-wasting meetings. A standup should be short, informal, effective and useful to all attendees.
If it is not, then it is a waste of time.
Another key tenet of agile is that the rituals of any given process that you are following, such as Scrum, should not be considered to be carved in stone. The process should adapt to you rather than you adapting to the process.
It sounds to me as if your team is trying to be agile, but actually being far too rigid about it, and thereby missing the point.
I don't have any specific advice for you on how to approach your manager with this, but clearly there is a problem and you do need to discuss it. I hope the above will give you some useful ammunition to help you make your case.
answered 1 hour ago
Spudley
1892
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
65
down vote
Isn't the real problem here that they are asking to have work meetings, outside of work hours? We have daily scrums slightly after the day starts sothat people can get drinks/etc and then do the meeting and focus on their day. I would argue that, given the meetings are for work, they should arrange them at the start of worktime and not before.
Also because they are daily, if for whatever reason they cant do it during your work hours (because its normal work hours for everyone else perhaps?) you could try working out the night before what you want to say and send it to someone that is in the meeting so it can be read out daily as a compromise.
The only reason for mandatory attendance is either so you have visibility on everything that is occurring or for them to discuss issues with you and the former you seem to not require and the latter shouldn't be done in a scrum anyway.
answered 8 hours ago
adamcooney
30113
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adamcooney is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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25
I agree with this - discussing the usefulness of a meeting is a thing, asking to attend outside work hours is another.
– Liquid
8 hours ago
2
Good answer. Work hours or no meeting that's all
– L_Church
7 hours ago
5
It's possible that this is a global company. One meeting attendee's start time may be another attendee's finish time. The company I work for has flexible hours for this reason - if I need to attend a 10PM meeting on Tuesday, there's no need for me to start work at 9AM.
– James Donnelly
6 hours ago
2
@cdkMoose His comment was related to having the meeting during one location's start time and another location's end time. If it's impossible to schedule a meeting during everyone's work hours, there should be provisions made, it's usually not an ideal solution to tell someone "our company works at different times so you have to work extra uncompensated time".
– JMac
5 hours ago
2
Yo, this is a software company! Normal work hours are therefore a very elastic concept here. It's perfectly possible that Jay's regular working hours are not some other manager's concept of 'normal', and that doesn't make either the work or the meeting invalid.
– George M
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
65
down vote
Isn't the real problem here that they are asking to have work meetings, outside of work hours? We have daily scrums slightly after the day starts sothat people can get drinks/etc and then do the meeting and focus on their day. I would argue that, given the meetings are for work, they should arrange them at the start of worktime and not before.
Also because they are daily, if for whatever reason they cant do it during your work hours (because its normal work hours for everyone else perhaps?) you could try working out the night before what you want to say and send it to someone that is in the meeting so it can be read out daily as a compromise.
The only reason for mandatory attendance is either so you have visibility on everything that is occurring or for them to discuss issues with you and the former you seem to not require and the latter shouldn't be done in a scrum anyway.
answered 8 hours ago
adamcooney
30113
New contributor
adamcooney is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
25
I agree with this - discussing the usefulness of a meeting is a thing, asking to attend outside work hours is another.
– Liquid
8 hours ago
2
Good answer. Work hours or no meeting that's all
– L_Church
7 hours ago
5
It's possible that this is a global company. One meeting attendee's start time may be another attendee's finish time. The company I work for has flexible hours for this reason - if I need to attend a 10PM meeting on Tuesday, there's no need for me to start work at 9AM.
– James Donnelly
6 hours ago
2
@cdkMoose His comment was related to having the meeting during one location's start time and another location's end time. If it's impossible to schedule a meeting during everyone's work hours, there should be provisions made, it's usually not an ideal solution to tell someone "our company works at different times so you have to work extra uncompensated time".
– JMac
5 hours ago
2
Yo, this is a software company! Normal work hours are therefore a very elastic concept here. It's perfectly possible that Jay's regular working hours are not some other manager's concept of 'normal', and that doesn't make either the work or the meeting invalid.
– George M
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
65
down vote
up vote
65
down vote
Isn't the real problem here that they are asking to have work meetings, outside of work hours? We have daily scrums slightly after the day starts sothat people can get drinks/etc and then do the meeting and focus on their day. I would argue that, given the meetings are for work, they should arrange them at the start of worktime and not before.
Also because they are daily, if for whatever reason they cant do it during your work hours (because its normal work hours for everyone else perhaps?) you could try working out the night before what you want to say and send it to someone that is in the meeting so it can be read out daily as a compromise.
The only reason for mandatory attendance is either so you have visibility on everything that is occurring or for them to discuss issues with you and the former you seem to not require and the latter shouldn't be done in a scrum anyway.
answered 8 hours ago
adamcooney
30113
New contributor
adamcooney is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Isn't the real problem here that they are asking to have work meetings, outside of work hours? We have daily scrums slightly after the day starts sothat people can get drinks/etc and then do the meeting and focus on their day. I would argue that, given the meetings are for work, they should arrange them at the start of worktime and not before.
Also because they are daily, if for whatever reason they cant do it during your work hours (because its normal work hours for everyone else perhaps?) you could try working out the night before what you want to say and send it to someone that is in the meeting so it can be read out daily as a compromise.
The only reason for mandatory attendance is either so you have visibility on everything that is occurring or for them to discuss issues with you and the former you seem to not require and the latter shouldn't be done in a scrum anyway.
answered 8 hours ago
adamcooney
30113
New contributor
adamcooney is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 8 hours ago
adamcooney
30113
New contributor
adamcooney is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 8 hours ago
adamcooney
30113
answered 8 hours ago
adamcooney
30113
30113
New contributor
adamcooney is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
adamcooney is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
adamcooney is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
25
I agree with this - discussing the usefulness of a meeting is a thing, asking to attend outside work hours is another.
– Liquid
8 hours ago
2
Good answer. Work hours or no meeting that's all
– L_Church
7 hours ago
5
It's possible that this is a global company. One meeting attendee's start time may be another attendee's finish time. The company I work for has flexible hours for this reason - if I need to attend a 10PM meeting on Tuesday, there's no need for me to start work at 9AM.
– James Donnelly
6 hours ago
2
@cdkMoose His comment was related to having the meeting during one location's start time and another location's end time. If it's impossible to schedule a meeting during everyone's work hours, there should be provisions made, it's usually not an ideal solution to tell someone "our company works at different times so you have to work extra uncompensated time".
– JMac
5 hours ago
2
Yo, this is a software company! Normal work hours are therefore a very elastic concept here. It's perfectly possible that Jay's regular working hours are not some other manager's concept of 'normal', and that doesn't make either the work or the meeting invalid.
– George M
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
25
I agree with this - discussing the usefulness of a meeting is a thing, asking to attend outside work hours is another.
– Liquid
8 hours ago
2
Good answer. Work hours or no meeting that's all
– L_Church
7 hours ago
5
It's possible that this is a global company. One meeting attendee's start time may be another attendee's finish time. The company I work for has flexible hours for this reason - if I need to attend a 10PM meeting on Tuesday, there's no need for me to start work at 9AM.
– James Donnelly
6 hours ago
2
@cdkMoose His comment was related to having the meeting during one location's start time and another location's end time. If it's impossible to schedule a meeting during everyone's work hours, there should be provisions made, it's usually not an ideal solution to tell someone "our company works at different times so you have to work extra uncompensated time".
– JMac
5 hours ago
2
Yo, this is a software company! Normal work hours are therefore a very elastic concept here. It's perfectly possible that Jay's regular working hours are not some other manager's concept of 'normal', and that doesn't make either the work or the meeting invalid.
– George M
1 hour ago
25
25
I agree with this - discussing the usefulness of a meeting is a thing, asking to attend outside work hours is another.
– Liquid
8 hours ago
I agree with this - discussing the usefulness of a meeting is a thing, asking to attend outside work hours is another.
– Liquid
8 hours ago
2
2
Good answer. Work hours or no meeting that's all
– L_Church
7 hours ago
Good answer. Work hours or no meeting that's all
– L_Church
7 hours ago
5
5
It's possible that this is a global company. One meeting attendee's start time may be another attendee's finish time. The company I work for has flexible hours for this reason - if I need to attend a 10PM meeting on Tuesday, there's no need for me to start work at 9AM.
– James Donnelly
6 hours ago
It's possible that this is a global company. One meeting attendee's start time may be another attendee's finish time. The company I work for has flexible hours for this reason - if I need to attend a 10PM meeting on Tuesday, there's no need for me to start work at 9AM.
– James Donnelly
6 hours ago
2
2
@cdkMoose His comment was related to having the meeting during one location's start time and another location's end time. If it's impossible to schedule a meeting during everyone's work hours, there should be provisions made, it's usually not an ideal solution to tell someone "our company works at different times so you have to work extra uncompensated time".
– JMac
5 hours ago
@cdkMoose His comment was related to having the meeting during one location's start time and another location's end time. If it's impossible to schedule a meeting during everyone's work hours, there should be provisions made, it's usually not an ideal solution to tell someone "our company works at different times so you have to work extra uncompensated time".
– JMac
5 hours ago
2
2
Yo, this is a software company! Normal work hours are therefore a very elastic concept here. It's perfectly possible that Jay's regular working hours are not some other manager's concept of 'normal', and that doesn't make either the work or the meeting invalid.
– George M
1 hour ago
Yo, this is a software company! Normal work hours are therefore a very elastic concept here. It's perfectly possible that Jay's regular working hours are not some other manager's concept of 'normal', and that doesn't make either the work or the meeting invalid.
– George M
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 6 more comments
up vote
22
down vote
A few suggestions:
Ask the meeting organizer if you can attend the meeting remotely, over email or chat for example. Send your update the prior evening or at some other convenient time.
Ask the meeting organizer to move the meeting time to accommodate your schedule. If they won't, you can at least inform your supervisor that they didn't which is one way of demonstrating that you might not be needed anyways.
I know that this goes against some people's ideas about Agile, but if your Agile process isn't agile, I'm not sure it's really Agile.
answered 8 hours ago
Glen Pierce
6,26441328
22
From the Agile Manifesto: "People over process".
– David Thornley
8 hours ago
This is the best option I think. Lots of people seem to want you to give your update verbally at the actual time of the meeting so I would suggest just connecting via your phone and use a wireless headset (which I'd try to get my boss to pay for if I didn't already have one). Since it appears the asker doesn't really need to contribute anything or get any benefit from this meeting the fact that they are not really paying attention won't matter. If this option is refused I'd try the "that's not very agile is it?" line on them.
– Eric Nolan
6 hours ago
7
Attending remotely is not the point. OP has stuff to do then, but IMO "move the meeting time" is dead-on!
– G. Ann - SonarSource Team
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
22
down vote
A few suggestions:
Ask the meeting organizer if you can attend the meeting remotely, over email or chat for example. Send your update the prior evening or at some other convenient time.
Ask the meeting organizer to move the meeting time to accommodate your schedule. If they won't, you can at least inform your supervisor that they didn't which is one way of demonstrating that you might not be needed anyways.
I know that this goes against some people's ideas about Agile, but if your Agile process isn't agile, I'm not sure it's really Agile.
answered 8 hours ago
Glen Pierce
6,26441328
22
From the Agile Manifesto: "People over process".
– David Thornley
8 hours ago
This is the best option I think. Lots of people seem to want you to give your update verbally at the actual time of the meeting so I would suggest just connecting via your phone and use a wireless headset (which I'd try to get my boss to pay for if I didn't already have one). Since it appears the asker doesn't really need to contribute anything or get any benefit from this meeting the fact that they are not really paying attention won't matter. If this option is refused I'd try the "that's not very agile is it?" line on them.
– Eric Nolan
6 hours ago
7
Attending remotely is not the point. OP has stuff to do then, but IMO "move the meeting time" is dead-on!
– G. Ann - SonarSource Team
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
22
down vote
up vote
22
down vote
A few suggestions:
Ask the meeting organizer if you can attend the meeting remotely, over email or chat for example. Send your update the prior evening or at some other convenient time.
Ask the meeting organizer to move the meeting time to accommodate your schedule. If they won't, you can at least inform your supervisor that they didn't which is one way of demonstrating that you might not be needed anyways.
I know that this goes against some people's ideas about Agile, but if your Agile process isn't agile, I'm not sure it's really Agile.
answered 8 hours ago
Glen Pierce
6,26441328
A few suggestions:
Ask the meeting organizer if you can attend the meeting remotely, over email or chat for example. Send your update the prior evening or at some other convenient time.
Ask the meeting organizer to move the meeting time to accommodate your schedule. If they won't, you can at least inform your supervisor that they didn't which is one way of demonstrating that you might not be needed anyways.
I know that this goes against some people's ideas about Agile, but if your Agile process isn't agile, I'm not sure it's really Agile.
answered 8 hours ago
Glen Pierce
6,26441328
answered 8 hours ago
Glen Pierce
6,26441328
answered 8 hours ago
Glen Pierce
6,26441328
answered 8 hours ago
Glen Pierce
6,26441328
6,26441328
22
From the Agile Manifesto: "People over process".
– David Thornley
8 hours ago
This is the best option I think. Lots of people seem to want you to give your update verbally at the actual time of the meeting so I would suggest just connecting via your phone and use a wireless headset (which I'd try to get my boss to pay for if I didn't already have one). Since it appears the asker doesn't really need to contribute anything or get any benefit from this meeting the fact that they are not really paying attention won't matter. If this option is refused I'd try the "that's not very agile is it?" line on them.
– Eric Nolan
6 hours ago
7
Attending remotely is not the point. OP has stuff to do then, but IMO "move the meeting time" is dead-on!
– G. Ann - SonarSource Team
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
22
From the Agile Manifesto: "People over process".
– David Thornley
8 hours ago
This is the best option I think. Lots of people seem to want you to give your update verbally at the actual time of the meeting so I would suggest just connecting via your phone and use a wireless headset (which I'd try to get my boss to pay for if I didn't already have one). Since it appears the asker doesn't really need to contribute anything or get any benefit from this meeting the fact that they are not really paying attention won't matter. If this option is refused I'd try the "that's not very agile is it?" line on them.
– Eric Nolan
6 hours ago
7
Attending remotely is not the point. OP has stuff to do then, but IMO "move the meeting time" is dead-on!
– G. Ann - SonarSource Team
5 hours ago
22
22
From the Agile Manifesto: "People over process".
– David Thornley
8 hours ago
From the Agile Manifesto: "People over process".
– David Thornley
8 hours ago
This is the best option I think. Lots of people seem to want you to give your update verbally at the actual time of the meeting so I would suggest just connecting via your phone and use a wireless headset (which I'd try to get my boss to pay for if I didn't already have one). Since it appears the asker doesn't really need to contribute anything or get any benefit from this meeting the fact that they are not really paying attention won't matter. If this option is refused I'd try the "that's not very agile is it?" line on them.
– Eric Nolan
6 hours ago
This is the best option I think. Lots of people seem to want you to give your update verbally at the actual time of the meeting so I would suggest just connecting via your phone and use a wireless headset (which I'd try to get my boss to pay for if I didn't already have one). Since it appears the asker doesn't really need to contribute anything or get any benefit from this meeting the fact that they are not really paying attention won't matter. If this option is refused I'd try the "that's not very agile is it?" line on them.
– Eric Nolan
6 hours ago
7
7
Attending remotely is not the point. OP has stuff to do then, but IMO "move the meeting time" is dead-on!
– G. Ann - SonarSource Team
5 hours ago
Attending remotely is not the point. OP has stuff to do then, but IMO "move the meeting time" is dead-on!
– G. Ann - SonarSource Team
5 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
Ugh.. that's immensely irritating - you have my sympathies!
Since it sounds like your boss isn't going to just let this one go completely I'd suggest you offer him a compromise option where you can meet the business objectives but don't actually have to attend.
Try offering to write a status update message for the times when you do have something relevant to say and have that be delivered to whoever is chairing the meeting by close of business the previous day.
If this is really about getting your updates to the team then this should be sufficient from what you've described. If he pushes back on this with vague mumbling about "visibility" or similar then you can counter with the fact that the optics of you being there but "zoned out" (his words) are going to be worse than you not being there in the first place. If on the other hand he pushes back using the old "what if someone has a question?" line then offer that if they e-mail you the question you'll respond to any queries by time x (where time X is during your working day, reasonably early if possible).
answered 9 hours ago
motosubatsu
35.7k1593150
1
Plus see if someone else from your team is regularly in at that early hour, and whether you can trade some other tedious late-afternoon obligation with them, so the team is represented but by a willing party. Even if they know nothing about the project, it's OK as long as you send them an email update every afternoon. The one you'd otherwise be sending that other manager if they were reasonable :-).
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
Ugh.. that's immensely irritating - you have my sympathies!
Since it sounds like your boss isn't going to just let this one go completely I'd suggest you offer him a compromise option where you can meet the business objectives but don't actually have to attend.
Try offering to write a status update message for the times when you do have something relevant to say and have that be delivered to whoever is chairing the meeting by close of business the previous day.
If this is really about getting your updates to the team then this should be sufficient from what you've described. If he pushes back on this with vague mumbling about "visibility" or similar then you can counter with the fact that the optics of you being there but "zoned out" (his words) are going to be worse than you not being there in the first place. If on the other hand he pushes back using the old "what if someone has a question?" line then offer that if they e-mail you the question you'll respond to any queries by time x (where time X is during your working day, reasonably early if possible).
answered 9 hours ago
motosubatsu
35.7k1593150
1
Plus see if someone else from your team is regularly in at that early hour, and whether you can trade some other tedious late-afternoon obligation with them, so the team is represented but by a willing party. Even if they know nothing about the project, it's OK as long as you send them an email update every afternoon. The one you'd otherwise be sending that other manager if they were reasonable :-).
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
up vote
11
down vote
Ugh.. that's immensely irritating - you have my sympathies!
Since it sounds like your boss isn't going to just let this one go completely I'd suggest you offer him a compromise option where you can meet the business objectives but don't actually have to attend.
Try offering to write a status update message for the times when you do have something relevant to say and have that be delivered to whoever is chairing the meeting by close of business the previous day.
If this is really about getting your updates to the team then this should be sufficient from what you've described. If he pushes back on this with vague mumbling about "visibility" or similar then you can counter with the fact that the optics of you being there but "zoned out" (his words) are going to be worse than you not being there in the first place. If on the other hand he pushes back using the old "what if someone has a question?" line then offer that if they e-mail you the question you'll respond to any queries by time x (where time X is during your working day, reasonably early if possible).
answered 9 hours ago
motosubatsu
35.7k1593150
Ugh.. that's immensely irritating - you have my sympathies!
Since it sounds like your boss isn't going to just let this one go completely I'd suggest you offer him a compromise option where you can meet the business objectives but don't actually have to attend.
Try offering to write a status update message for the times when you do have something relevant to say and have that be delivered to whoever is chairing the meeting by close of business the previous day.
If this is really about getting your updates to the team then this should be sufficient from what you've described. If he pushes back on this with vague mumbling about "visibility" or similar then you can counter with the fact that the optics of you being there but "zoned out" (his words) are going to be worse than you not being there in the first place. If on the other hand he pushes back using the old "what if someone has a question?" line then offer that if they e-mail you the question you'll respond to any queries by time x (where time X is during your working day, reasonably early if possible).
answered 9 hours ago
motosubatsu
35.7k1593150
answered 9 hours ago
motosubatsu
35.7k1593150
answered 9 hours ago
motosubatsu
35.7k1593150
answered 9 hours ago
motosubatsu
35.7k1593150
35.7k1593150
1
Plus see if someone else from your team is regularly in at that early hour, and whether you can trade some other tedious late-afternoon obligation with them, so the team is represented but by a willing party. Even if they know nothing about the project, it's OK as long as you send them an email update every afternoon. The one you'd otherwise be sending that other manager if they were reasonable :-).
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1
Plus see if someone else from your team is regularly in at that early hour, and whether you can trade some other tedious late-afternoon obligation with them, so the team is represented but by a willing party. Even if they know nothing about the project, it's OK as long as you send them an email update every afternoon. The one you'd otherwise be sending that other manager if they were reasonable :-).
– George M
1 hour ago
1
1
Plus see if someone else from your team is regularly in at that early hour, and whether you can trade some other tedious late-afternoon obligation with them, so the team is represented but by a willing party. Even if they know nothing about the project, it's OK as long as you send them an email update every afternoon. The one you'd otherwise be sending that other manager if they were reasonable :-).
– George M
1 hour ago
Plus see if someone else from your team is regularly in at that early hour, and whether you can trade some other tedious late-afternoon obligation with them, so the team is represented but by a willing party. Even if they know nothing about the project, it's OK as long as you send them an email update every afternoon. The one you'd otherwise be sending that other manager if they were reasonable :-).
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
If the meeting is truly pointless for you, and you cannot contribute (as opposed to being unlikely to contribute), he's probably trying to expand his footprint in the organization, and using you as manpower to do it.
I'd suggest talking to him about his goals of having you attend the meeting, and if he shares them with you, you can gain a lot of favor by attempting to help him achieve them.
That said, you need to also suggest that you further his goals in a way you can sustain. For example, you might suggest that by being late or nearly late to each meeting, you're probably projecting the wrong impression, so instead you'll try to go out to lunch with a few key players, or follow up in ways that can work with your schedule.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,477912
2
Note that if he doesn't share his goals, it will be hard for you to further them. While I wouldn't express that to him, it should tell you a lot about your future performance. You'll be judged against goals that you don't understand. Odds are not good you'll achieve them, and odds are even better that he'll manage by noticing the details of following his instructions (as opposed to the actual achievement of his desires)
– Edwin Buck
8 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
If the meeting is truly pointless for you, and you cannot contribute (as opposed to being unlikely to contribute), he's probably trying to expand his footprint in the organization, and using you as manpower to do it.
I'd suggest talking to him about his goals of having you attend the meeting, and if he shares them with you, you can gain a lot of favor by attempting to help him achieve them.
That said, you need to also suggest that you further his goals in a way you can sustain. For example, you might suggest that by being late or nearly late to each meeting, you're probably projecting the wrong impression, so instead you'll try to go out to lunch with a few key players, or follow up in ways that can work with your schedule.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,477912
2
Note that if he doesn't share his goals, it will be hard for you to further them. While I wouldn't express that to him, it should tell you a lot about your future performance. You'll be judged against goals that you don't understand. Odds are not good you'll achieve them, and odds are even better that he'll manage by noticing the details of following his instructions (as opposed to the actual achievement of his desires)
– Edwin Buck
8 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
If the meeting is truly pointless for you, and you cannot contribute (as opposed to being unlikely to contribute), he's probably trying to expand his footprint in the organization, and using you as manpower to do it.
I'd suggest talking to him about his goals of having you attend the meeting, and if he shares them with you, you can gain a lot of favor by attempting to help him achieve them.
That said, you need to also suggest that you further his goals in a way you can sustain. For example, you might suggest that by being late or nearly late to each meeting, you're probably projecting the wrong impression, so instead you'll try to go out to lunch with a few key players, or follow up in ways that can work with your schedule.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,477912
If the meeting is truly pointless for you, and you cannot contribute (as opposed to being unlikely to contribute), he's probably trying to expand his footprint in the organization, and using you as manpower to do it.
I'd suggest talking to him about his goals of having you attend the meeting, and if he shares them with you, you can gain a lot of favor by attempting to help him achieve them.
That said, you need to also suggest that you further his goals in a way you can sustain. For example, you might suggest that by being late or nearly late to each meeting, you're probably projecting the wrong impression, so instead you'll try to go out to lunch with a few key players, or follow up in ways that can work with your schedule.
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,477912
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,477912
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,477912
answered 8 hours ago
Edwin Buck
1,477912
1,477912
2
Note that if he doesn't share his goals, it will be hard for you to further them. While I wouldn't express that to him, it should tell you a lot about your future performance. You'll be judged against goals that you don't understand. Odds are not good you'll achieve them, and odds are even better that he'll manage by noticing the details of following his instructions (as opposed to the actual achievement of his desires)
– Edwin Buck
8 hours ago
add a comment |Â
2
Note that if he doesn't share his goals, it will be hard for you to further them. While I wouldn't express that to him, it should tell you a lot about your future performance. You'll be judged against goals that you don't understand. Odds are not good you'll achieve them, and odds are even better that he'll manage by noticing the details of following his instructions (as opposed to the actual achievement of his desires)
– Edwin Buck
8 hours ago
2
2
Note that if he doesn't share his goals, it will be hard for you to further them. While I wouldn't express that to him, it should tell you a lot about your future performance. You'll be judged against goals that you don't understand. Odds are not good you'll achieve them, and odds are even better that he'll manage by noticing the details of following his instructions (as opposed to the actual achievement of his desires)
– Edwin Buck
8 hours ago
Note that if he doesn't share his goals, it will be hard for you to further them. While I wouldn't express that to him, it should tell you a lot about your future performance. You'll be judged against goals that you don't understand. Odds are not good you'll achieve them, and odds are even better that he'll manage by noticing the details of following his instructions (as opposed to the actual achievement of his desires)
– Edwin Buck
8 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
As Agile, everyone's time is supposed to be taken into account. In my team, everyone is usually in the office by 9.30 AM, but there is one person who comes in later due to their daily routine. We scheduled the meeting at a time everyday after their arrival so that everyone is included. I think your manager can do the same and the fact that they are not is just wrong. You should address this with a person above you and the manager.
answered 5 hours ago
Veda
491
New contributor
Veda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
As Agile, everyone's time is supposed to be taken into account. In my team, everyone is usually in the office by 9.30 AM, but there is one person who comes in later due to their daily routine. We scheduled the meeting at a time everyday after their arrival so that everyone is included. I think your manager can do the same and the fact that they are not is just wrong. You should address this with a person above you and the manager.
answered 5 hours ago
Veda
491
New contributor
Veda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
As Agile, everyone's time is supposed to be taken into account. In my team, everyone is usually in the office by 9.30 AM, but there is one person who comes in later due to their daily routine. We scheduled the meeting at a time everyday after their arrival so that everyone is included. I think your manager can do the same and the fact that they are not is just wrong. You should address this with a person above you and the manager.
answered 5 hours ago
Veda
491
New contributor
Veda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
As Agile, everyone's time is supposed to be taken into account. In my team, everyone is usually in the office by 9.30 AM, but there is one person who comes in later due to their daily routine. We scheduled the meeting at a time everyday after their arrival so that everyone is included. I think your manager can do the same and the fact that they are not is just wrong. You should address this with a person above you and the manager.
answered 5 hours ago
Veda
491
New contributor
Veda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 5 hours ago
Veda
491
New contributor
Veda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 5 hours ago
Veda
491
answered 5 hours ago
Veda
491
491
New contributor
Veda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Veda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Veda is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
...my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
The meeting an agile team standup.
One of the key tenets of agile is to maximise productivity by minimising time-wasting meetings. A standup should be short, informal, effective and useful to all attendees.
If it is not, then it is a waste of time.
Another key tenet of agile is that the rituals of any given process that you are following, such as Scrum, should not be considered to be carved in stone. The process should adapt to you rather than you adapting to the process.
It sounds to me as if your team is trying to be agile, but actually being far too rigid about it, and thereby missing the point.
I don't have any specific advice for you on how to approach your manager with this, but clearly there is a problem and you do need to discuss it. I hope the above will give you some useful ammunition to help you make your case.
answered 1 hour ago
Spudley
1892
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
...my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
The meeting an agile team standup.
One of the key tenets of agile is to maximise productivity by minimising time-wasting meetings. A standup should be short, informal, effective and useful to all attendees.
If it is not, then it is a waste of time.
Another key tenet of agile is that the rituals of any given process that you are following, such as Scrum, should not be considered to be carved in stone. The process should adapt to you rather than you adapting to the process.
It sounds to me as if your team is trying to be agile, but actually being far too rigid about it, and thereby missing the point.
I don't have any specific advice for you on how to approach your manager with this, but clearly there is a problem and you do need to discuss it. I hope the above will give you some useful ammunition to help you make your case.
answered 1 hour ago
Spudley
1892
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
...my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
The meeting an agile team standup.
One of the key tenets of agile is to maximise productivity by minimising time-wasting meetings. A standup should be short, informal, effective and useful to all attendees.
If it is not, then it is a waste of time.
Another key tenet of agile is that the rituals of any given process that you are following, such as Scrum, should not be considered to be carved in stone. The process should adapt to you rather than you adapting to the process.
It sounds to me as if your team is trying to be agile, but actually being far too rigid about it, and thereby missing the point.
I don't have any specific advice for you on how to approach your manager with this, but clearly there is a problem and you do need to discuss it. I hope the above will give you some useful ammunition to help you make your case.
answered 1 hour ago
Spudley
1892
...my lack of work on this project, but still he pressures me me to attend and "zone out" waiting to see if my name is called.
The meeting an agile team standup.
One of the key tenets of agile is to maximise productivity by minimising time-wasting meetings. A standup should be short, informal, effective and useful to all attendees.
If it is not, then it is a waste of time.
Another key tenet of agile is that the rituals of any given process that you are following, such as Scrum, should not be considered to be carved in stone. The process should adapt to you rather than you adapting to the process.
It sounds to me as if your team is trying to be agile, but actually being far too rigid about it, and thereby missing the point.
I don't have any specific advice for you on how to approach your manager with this, but clearly there is a problem and you do need to discuss it. I hope the above will give you some useful ammunition to help you make your case.
answered 1 hour ago
Spudley
1892
answered 1 hour ago
Spudley
1892
answered 1 hour ago
Spudley
1892
answered 1 hour ago
Spudley
1892
1892
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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2
What does your boss say about why you should attend? Is your boss the one facilitating the meeting? Does your manager know the inconvenience this causes you?
– Elysian Fields♦
9 hours ago
2
When you say "attend" is this a meeting where you physically have to be there (before work)? Or is this a phone meeting where you dial in?
– DaveG
8 hours ago
2
Is this meeting outside of your normal working hours? Do you have normal working hours?
– Erik
8 hours ago
7
"I will not be attending this meeting."
– Tony Ennis
4 hours ago
2
When you say it's outside your normal work hours -- are your work hours different from those of most others (maybe you've negotiated a later schedule to accomodate your morning responsibilities at home)? Is the meeting within the company's normal work hours?
– Barmar
4 hours ago