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Would my boss have any reason to lie about me being at risk of losing my job? [closed]
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My job recently had a second round of lay-offs and our department was lucky enough yet again to dodge the bullet. Our boss was confident -- though not certain -- that we would be safe due to the role we play in the company. However, as of the past year, I've felt this growing premonition of pending doom looming over my head with regard to my job security. My boss talks to me a lot less, co-workers are not as intimate with me as they used to be, I have been left out of a few meetings that I feel I should have been a part of, etc. Basically, search Google for "signs you are about to lose your job" and rest assured that I have checked off a lot of the signs from those results. In short, things have just been weird in ways that I cannot adequately describe. As of the past few months, these vibes have gotten so strong that I recently decided to take my boss aside in a private meeting to discuss my concerns.
I opened with, "[blah blah insert 30-second build-up to my question here]. So are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?"
He paused for a moment, smiled, and did nothing but gush for 10 minutes straight about how my initials are basically JHC. He went on and on about my strong work ethic, my reliability, compared my performance to the lackluster performance of other unnamed employees, and went as far as to tell me that, if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five.
This confirmation felt good, but, having let his response sink in over the next several hours, I realized that he never actually answered my question. A simple No, we're not planning on firing you any time soon would have been superb in hindsight, but what I got was what a sufferer of chronic paranoia would describe as "dancing around the bush and dodging the question".
So, I am wondering what could possibly motivate my boss to provide a deceptive response. I can conceive of a few reasons, one of which being that, if I played a key role in securing my company's sensitive data, the last thing on my to-do list would be to create a disgruntled employee by telling them, Yes, we do plan on getting rid of you soon... in a few weeks in fact. Therefore, go ahead and run wild with exfiltration of our company's confidential data until your heart's fully content.
In addition to the recent layoffs we just had, here are other reasons that raise my suspicions:
- I am in my early 40's and make fairly decent bank in the mid-70k range
- However, lots of young, 18-year-old interns running around lately
- Approaching my 6-year anniversary in mid-November where I will accrue an extra week of vacation bringing me to 3 weeks plus 6 floating holidays
So it's easy to see the incentive for my boss to look me right in the eye and lie to me about my job security. I have severe anxiety issues, though, and this wouldn't be the first time that my self-preservation instincts have set off false internal alarms. I am just hoping I am wrong like every other time.
So, should I take my boss aside again, this time getting a very clear, concise answer? Or should I take a preemptive approach and contact HR to ask about a chance to appeal any decisions that may ever result in my termination? How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me?
BTW, Fortune 500 IT company here, so they typically don't play the types of petty games you'd enjoy with your small start-ups.
So make me feel better about things... or make me feel worse. You decide.
job-security
asked Jul 19 '16 at 20:48
heimeckle
402
closed as off-topic by keshlam, Roger, The Wandering Dev Manager, HorusKol, gnat Jul 20 '16 at 3:59
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Real questions have answers. Rather than explaining why your situation is terrible, or why your boss/coworker makes you unhappy, explain what you want to do to make it better. For more information, click here." – The Wandering Dev Manager, HorusKol, gnat
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
6
down vote
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My job recently had a second round of lay-offs and our department was lucky enough yet again to dodge the bullet. Our boss was confident -- though not certain -- that we would be safe due to the role we play in the company. However, as of the past year, I've felt this growing premonition of pending doom looming over my head with regard to my job security. My boss talks to me a lot less, co-workers are not as intimate with me as they used to be, I have been left out of a few meetings that I feel I should have been a part of, etc. Basically, search Google for "signs you are about to lose your job" and rest assured that I have checked off a lot of the signs from those results. In short, things have just been weird in ways that I cannot adequately describe. As of the past few months, these vibes have gotten so strong that I recently decided to take my boss aside in a private meeting to discuss my concerns.
I opened with, "[blah blah insert 30-second build-up to my question here]. So are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?"
He paused for a moment, smiled, and did nothing but gush for 10 minutes straight about how my initials are basically JHC. He went on and on about my strong work ethic, my reliability, compared my performance to the lackluster performance of other unnamed employees, and went as far as to tell me that, if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five.
This confirmation felt good, but, having let his response sink in over the next several hours, I realized that he never actually answered my question. A simple No, we're not planning on firing you any time soon would have been superb in hindsight, but what I got was what a sufferer of chronic paranoia would describe as "dancing around the bush and dodging the question".
So, I am wondering what could possibly motivate my boss to provide a deceptive response. I can conceive of a few reasons, one of which being that, if I played a key role in securing my company's sensitive data, the last thing on my to-do list would be to create a disgruntled employee by telling them, Yes, we do plan on getting rid of you soon... in a few weeks in fact. Therefore, go ahead and run wild with exfiltration of our company's confidential data until your heart's fully content.
In addition to the recent layoffs we just had, here are other reasons that raise my suspicions:
- I am in my early 40's and make fairly decent bank in the mid-70k range
- However, lots of young, 18-year-old interns running around lately
- Approaching my 6-year anniversary in mid-November where I will accrue an extra week of vacation bringing me to 3 weeks plus 6 floating holidays
So it's easy to see the incentive for my boss to look me right in the eye and lie to me about my job security. I have severe anxiety issues, though, and this wouldn't be the first time that my self-preservation instincts have set off false internal alarms. I am just hoping I am wrong like every other time.
So, should I take my boss aside again, this time getting a very clear, concise answer? Or should I take a preemptive approach and contact HR to ask about a chance to appeal any decisions that may ever result in my termination? How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me?
BTW, Fortune 500 IT company here, so they typically don't play the types of petty games you'd enjoy with your small start-ups.
So make me feel better about things... or make me feel worse. You decide.
job-security
asked Jul 19 '16 at 20:48
heimeckle
402
closed as off-topic by keshlam, Roger, The Wandering Dev Manager, HorusKol, gnat Jul 20 '16 at 3:59
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Real questions have answers. Rather than explaining why your situation is terrible, or why your boss/coworker makes you unhappy, explain what you want to do to make it better. For more information, click here." – The Wandering Dev Manager, HorusKol, gnat
1
You know your boss better than we do. We can't read his mind.
– keshlam
Jul 19 '16 at 20:58
2
How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me?- obvious way: get another job. As for whether they think they might fire you: it's almost never something they let people know (a long time) in advance. OTOH, had they already decided to get rid of you (and just you) why are they still keeping you around?
– 500 - Internal Server Error
Jul 19 '16 at 21:01
The answers here might be really useful to you. Keep in mind it is not only your bosses opinion that matters, but also his boss and his peers - depending on what level the layoffs are decided at. If your boss loves you but every other manager at your company thinks you are annoying or not good at your job, it might not matter what your boss thinks. It is among other reasons why positive visibility is important. I don't have time to write this up into a "real" answer right now unfortunately.
– Elysian Fields♦
Jul 19 '16 at 22:24
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
My job recently had a second round of lay-offs and our department was lucky enough yet again to dodge the bullet. Our boss was confident -- though not certain -- that we would be safe due to the role we play in the company. However, as of the past year, I've felt this growing premonition of pending doom looming over my head with regard to my job security. My boss talks to me a lot less, co-workers are not as intimate with me as they used to be, I have been left out of a few meetings that I feel I should have been a part of, etc. Basically, search Google for "signs you are about to lose your job" and rest assured that I have checked off a lot of the signs from those results. In short, things have just been weird in ways that I cannot adequately describe. As of the past few months, these vibes have gotten so strong that I recently decided to take my boss aside in a private meeting to discuss my concerns.
I opened with, "[blah blah insert 30-second build-up to my question here]. So are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?"
He paused for a moment, smiled, and did nothing but gush for 10 minutes straight about how my initials are basically JHC. He went on and on about my strong work ethic, my reliability, compared my performance to the lackluster performance of other unnamed employees, and went as far as to tell me that, if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five.
This confirmation felt good, but, having let his response sink in over the next several hours, I realized that he never actually answered my question. A simple No, we're not planning on firing you any time soon would have been superb in hindsight, but what I got was what a sufferer of chronic paranoia would describe as "dancing around the bush and dodging the question".
So, I am wondering what could possibly motivate my boss to provide a deceptive response. I can conceive of a few reasons, one of which being that, if I played a key role in securing my company's sensitive data, the last thing on my to-do list would be to create a disgruntled employee by telling them, Yes, we do plan on getting rid of you soon... in a few weeks in fact. Therefore, go ahead and run wild with exfiltration of our company's confidential data until your heart's fully content.
In addition to the recent layoffs we just had, here are other reasons that raise my suspicions:
- I am in my early 40's and make fairly decent bank in the mid-70k range
- However, lots of young, 18-year-old interns running around lately
- Approaching my 6-year anniversary in mid-November where I will accrue an extra week of vacation bringing me to 3 weeks plus 6 floating holidays
So it's easy to see the incentive for my boss to look me right in the eye and lie to me about my job security. I have severe anxiety issues, though, and this wouldn't be the first time that my self-preservation instincts have set off false internal alarms. I am just hoping I am wrong like every other time.
So, should I take my boss aside again, this time getting a very clear, concise answer? Or should I take a preemptive approach and contact HR to ask about a chance to appeal any decisions that may ever result in my termination? How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me?
BTW, Fortune 500 IT company here, so they typically don't play the types of petty games you'd enjoy with your small start-ups.
So make me feel better about things... or make me feel worse. You decide.
job-security
asked Jul 19 '16 at 20:48
heimeckle
402
My job recently had a second round of lay-offs and our department was lucky enough yet again to dodge the bullet. Our boss was confident -- though not certain -- that we would be safe due to the role we play in the company. However, as of the past year, I've felt this growing premonition of pending doom looming over my head with regard to my job security. My boss talks to me a lot less, co-workers are not as intimate with me as they used to be, I have been left out of a few meetings that I feel I should have been a part of, etc. Basically, search Google for "signs you are about to lose your job" and rest assured that I have checked off a lot of the signs from those results. In short, things have just been weird in ways that I cannot adequately describe. As of the past few months, these vibes have gotten so strong that I recently decided to take my boss aside in a private meeting to discuss my concerns.
I opened with, "[blah blah insert 30-second build-up to my question here]. So are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?"
He paused for a moment, smiled, and did nothing but gush for 10 minutes straight about how my initials are basically JHC. He went on and on about my strong work ethic, my reliability, compared my performance to the lackluster performance of other unnamed employees, and went as far as to tell me that, if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five.
This confirmation felt good, but, having let his response sink in over the next several hours, I realized that he never actually answered my question. A simple No, we're not planning on firing you any time soon would have been superb in hindsight, but what I got was what a sufferer of chronic paranoia would describe as "dancing around the bush and dodging the question".
So, I am wondering what could possibly motivate my boss to provide a deceptive response. I can conceive of a few reasons, one of which being that, if I played a key role in securing my company's sensitive data, the last thing on my to-do list would be to create a disgruntled employee by telling them, Yes, we do plan on getting rid of you soon... in a few weeks in fact. Therefore, go ahead and run wild with exfiltration of our company's confidential data until your heart's fully content.
In addition to the recent layoffs we just had, here are other reasons that raise my suspicions:
- I am in my early 40's and make fairly decent bank in the mid-70k range
- However, lots of young, 18-year-old interns running around lately
- Approaching my 6-year anniversary in mid-November where I will accrue an extra week of vacation bringing me to 3 weeks plus 6 floating holidays
So it's easy to see the incentive for my boss to look me right in the eye and lie to me about my job security. I have severe anxiety issues, though, and this wouldn't be the first time that my self-preservation instincts have set off false internal alarms. I am just hoping I am wrong like every other time.
So, should I take my boss aside again, this time getting a very clear, concise answer? Or should I take a preemptive approach and contact HR to ask about a chance to appeal any decisions that may ever result in my termination? How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me?
BTW, Fortune 500 IT company here, so they typically don't play the types of petty games you'd enjoy with your small start-ups.
So make me feel better about things... or make me feel worse. You decide.
job-security
asked Jul 19 '16 at 20:48
heimeckle
402
asked Jul 19 '16 at 20:48
heimeckle
402
asked Jul 19 '16 at 20:48
heimeckle
402
asked Jul 19 '16 at 20:48
heimeckle
402
402
closed as off-topic by keshlam, Roger, The Wandering Dev Manager, HorusKol, gnat Jul 20 '16 at 3:59
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Real questions have answers. Rather than explaining why your situation is terrible, or why your boss/coworker makes you unhappy, explain what you want to do to make it better. For more information, click here." – The Wandering Dev Manager, HorusKol, gnat
closed as off-topic by keshlam, Roger, The Wandering Dev Manager, HorusKol, gnat Jul 20 '16 at 3:59
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Real questions have answers. Rather than explaining why your situation is terrible, or why your boss/coworker makes you unhappy, explain what you want to do to make it better. For more information, click here." – The Wandering Dev Manager, HorusKol, gnat
1
You know your boss better than we do. We can't read his mind.
– keshlam
Jul 19 '16 at 20:58
2
How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me?- obvious way: get another job. As for whether they think they might fire you: it's almost never something they let people know (a long time) in advance. OTOH, had they already decided to get rid of you (and just you) why are they still keeping you around?
– 500 - Internal Server Error
Jul 19 '16 at 21:01
The answers here might be really useful to you. Keep in mind it is not only your bosses opinion that matters, but also his boss and his peers - depending on what level the layoffs are decided at. If your boss loves you but every other manager at your company thinks you are annoying or not good at your job, it might not matter what your boss thinks. It is among other reasons why positive visibility is important. I don't have time to write this up into a "real" answer right now unfortunately.
– Elysian Fields♦
Jul 19 '16 at 22:24
suggest improvements |Â
1
You know your boss better than we do. We can't read his mind.
– keshlam
Jul 19 '16 at 20:58
2
How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me?- obvious way: get another job. As for whether they think they might fire you: it's almost never something they let people know (a long time) in advance. OTOH, had they already decided to get rid of you (and just you) why are they still keeping you around?
– 500 - Internal Server Error
Jul 19 '16 at 21:01
The answers here might be really useful to you. Keep in mind it is not only your bosses opinion that matters, but also his boss and his peers - depending on what level the layoffs are decided at. If your boss loves you but every other manager at your company thinks you are annoying or not good at your job, it might not matter what your boss thinks. It is among other reasons why positive visibility is important. I don't have time to write this up into a "real" answer right now unfortunately.
– Elysian Fields♦
Jul 19 '16 at 22:24
1
1
You know your boss better than we do. We can't read his mind.
– keshlam
Jul 19 '16 at 20:58
You know your boss better than we do. We can't read his mind.
– keshlam
Jul 19 '16 at 20:58
2
2
How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me? - obvious way: get another job. As for whether they think they might fire you: it's almost never something they let people know (a long time) in advance. OTOH, had they already decided to get rid of you (and just you) why are they still keeping you around?– 500 - Internal Server Error
Jul 19 '16 at 21:01
How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me? - obvious way: get another job. As for whether they think they might fire you: it's almost never something they let people know (a long time) in advance. OTOH, had they already decided to get rid of you (and just you) why are they still keeping you around?– 500 - Internal Server Error
Jul 19 '16 at 21:01
The answers here might be really useful to you. Keep in mind it is not only your bosses opinion that matters, but also his boss and his peers - depending on what level the layoffs are decided at. If your boss loves you but every other manager at your company thinks you are annoying or not good at your job, it might not matter what your boss thinks. It is among other reasons why positive visibility is important. I don't have time to write this up into a "real" answer right now unfortunately.
– Elysian Fields♦
Jul 19 '16 at 22:24
The answers here might be really useful to you. Keep in mind it is not only your bosses opinion that matters, but also his boss and his peers - depending on what level the layoffs are decided at. If your boss loves you but every other manager at your company thinks you are annoying or not good at your job, it might not matter what your boss thinks. It is among other reasons why positive visibility is important. I don't have time to write this up into a "real" answer right now unfortunately.
– Elysian Fields♦
Jul 19 '16 at 22:24
suggest improvements |Â
4 Answers
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TLDR: Your boss is never going to give you a 100% guarantee that you are not going to be fired, and asking for one will only make things awkward.
Let's look at things from your boss' point of view.
Your boss will never tell you that you are going to be fired
You've identified the main reasons. Doing so would demotivate you, and cause you possibly not to finish essential tasks. Your demotivation would also infect those around you. Others will sympathize with you, and this will cause them to question their own positions. There are countries in the world where layoffs can be done gradually and in a dignified way, but the US is not one. You will never be told you are going to be fired until you are.
Your boss will never definitely say you are not going to be fired.
There are lots of reasons for this:
- Your boss often doesn't know for certain who is going to be fired, or if firings will happen.
- Your boss doesn't always get the last word in who gets fired from his department.
- If the boss says you will not be fired, and you are, they have destroyed their credibility, not just with you but with everybody who finds out about it (which will be everybody in the company)
- If the boss knows who will be fired, and tells one person they will definitely not be fired, everyone will come and ask him. That leaves him being forced to tell everyone they will 'definitely not be fired', except for the people who will be fired. The people who will be fired can then work that out, which means he has effectively told people they will be fired.
- Any kind of talk about firing is a problem for your boss. It's astonishing how fast gossip about layoffs can cripple a team's productivity.
- Giving advance notice of who is being laid off may cost your boss his job.
Trying to get a definitive statement from your boss will only lead to awkwardness.
Now let's look at what you were told:
if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five
Unless there are only six people reporting to your boss, that's as enthusiastic endorsement as any I've heard. He could have said many things that were less enthusiastic, and given what I've written above, you are not going to get anything better. Your boss is going to give different levels of reassurance to people if he believes layoffs are coming - he will be very reassuring to people he wants to keep, and much less reassuring to people he doesn't want to keep. He was pretty reassuring with you. Unless you have some other reason to think your boss is being deceptive, take his statements at face value.
That doesn't mean you won't be let go. Your entire department may be cut. Your boss is also not in complete control of who gets let go from his department. He may also be asked to make cuts to a total salary rather than a specific number of people, and if you are senior or highly paid that might make you are target. But it does mean that, other assessments aside, you have reason for confidence.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:12
DJClayworth
40.7k886146
11
If the boss knows who is being laid off and tells people they are not on the list, the boss could lose his job. There are secrets managers must keep. If they can't be trusted to keep them, then they are a hazard to the organization and must go.
– HLGEM
Jul 19 '16 at 21:18
Not to mention being told "You definitely will not be fired" can also demotivate someone. "Why work so hard, you'll be paid the same, there is no budget for a raise, and I know I won't be fired".
– Aron
Jul 20 '16 at 3:42
Not to mention the legal difficulty a company could face if you were told you definitely weren't going to be fired and then were.
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:18
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Yes, your boss has plenty of reasons to lie, if in fact your job is in jeopardy.
For example, they might need you for another month -- they would then have no incentive to be straight with you, since you might leave at any time.
You can ask your boss all you want, but you will get the same answer. He can say with certainty that you are the best employee, and that he would keep you. But the decision might not be his.
I speak from experience -- what you describe, as you say, are classic signs you're about to be let go.
It's better to be wrong and prepared, so I would start looking for a new opportunity immediately.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:05
mcknz
15.6k55468
4
+1: It's better to be wrong and prepared Contingency planning is just a smart move.
– Myles
Jul 19 '16 at 22:09
some very solid advice
– veryRandomMe
Jul 19 '16 at 23:29
Before you go running off to another company, you are there 6 years - what kind of redundancy package would you expect if you were let go?
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:20
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In addition to mcknz answer, the boss may not know.
Are there rumors about more layoffs, particularly in your group?
There may be top level discussions about laying off a division, department, outsourcing roles, groups, or various other things. Your boss might know about these discussions, but like mcknz said, may not be allowed to tell you, or may not know if or when.
Maybe the C-level says "If sales in division X don't go up by 10% in the next quarter then we will shut down division X".
It sounds like they want to keep you onboard, which is good. Some companies will lay off people they want rid off rather than firing them (less conflict that way).
So, you don't know, you won't know, until you know.
Therefore, get your resume together, start making contacts, and follow the guidelines for getting a new job. It can take much longer to find a job than your lay-off benefits will really last. Get started now.
If you get started, and you get laid off, you are ahead vs. if you do nothing.
If you get started, and you don't get laid off, you have lost nothing but some time in preparation, and you might gain a new job with more money, benefits, seniority, schedule, or other good thing.
There is a slight possibility that you can ask for a contract and longer lay-off benefits if they really do need you. But be careful, as this shows that you don't trust them.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:14
MikeP
66538
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There actually is a reason for your boss to decline to answer the question you asked even if the answer is "no". It's not always a clinching reason, but it's playing the longer game.
You asked "are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?". You already know the reason not to answer "yes". If your boss were to answer "no" when you asked this, and then "I decline to answer the question" when you ask again 6 months later, then he has as good as told you the answer is yes.
If your boss answered "no" to this question six months ago, refresh your CV.
So your boss has two options that don't leak confidential information that he wants to conceal from you: always say no regardless of the truth, or always avoid the question. You know he hasn't taken the option that requires being prepared to lie to you[*], which is something, but gets you no closer to the actual answer to your question.
That said, he could have explicitly avoided the question by saying something like, "any such conversations would be strictly confidential, so you understand I can't answer questions like that". But at this point he's deciding on the spot what he thinks will best reassure you. You really can't deduce anything either way from his response, unless you have some insight into his personality that he'd do a particular thing in one of the two situations, and he didn't do that thing here.
The rule of thumb, and there are exceptions, is this: if one answer to a yes/no question would cause you to refuse to answer, then you shouldn't answer that question even if the true answer is the other one. So in this case, you don't answer questions about confidential management discussions.
In its full glorious complexity, this issue relates to whether, when, and to what extent, a court or a jury is permitted to infer guilt from a refusal to answer particular questions. And one technique available to journalists is to try to lure someone down the path: "I don't suppose you've ever shoplifted, have you, even as a child?", "Of course not!", "Have you ever lied to the electorate in a campaign speech?", "Well, that's a very interesting and pertinent question, and I'm glad you asked me that. The thing is that my opponent...". Oops. Once you start answering "no" to that sort of question, you need to be all-in ready to lie, with all the risk involved in that.
[*] Well, not strictly true, he might be taking the tactic "always lie to the questioner by exaggerating their value to the company, all-around talent, toothsome physical appearance, and fresh minty smell".
answered Jul 20 '16 at 0:29
Steve Jessop
8,9081941
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
29
down vote
TLDR: Your boss is never going to give you a 100% guarantee that you are not going to be fired, and asking for one will only make things awkward.
Let's look at things from your boss' point of view.
Your boss will never tell you that you are going to be fired
You've identified the main reasons. Doing so would demotivate you, and cause you possibly not to finish essential tasks. Your demotivation would also infect those around you. Others will sympathize with you, and this will cause them to question their own positions. There are countries in the world where layoffs can be done gradually and in a dignified way, but the US is not one. You will never be told you are going to be fired until you are.
Your boss will never definitely say you are not going to be fired.
There are lots of reasons for this:
- Your boss often doesn't know for certain who is going to be fired, or if firings will happen.
- Your boss doesn't always get the last word in who gets fired from his department.
- If the boss says you will not be fired, and you are, they have destroyed their credibility, not just with you but with everybody who finds out about it (which will be everybody in the company)
- If the boss knows who will be fired, and tells one person they will definitely not be fired, everyone will come and ask him. That leaves him being forced to tell everyone they will 'definitely not be fired', except for the people who will be fired. The people who will be fired can then work that out, which means he has effectively told people they will be fired.
- Any kind of talk about firing is a problem for your boss. It's astonishing how fast gossip about layoffs can cripple a team's productivity.
- Giving advance notice of who is being laid off may cost your boss his job.
Trying to get a definitive statement from your boss will only lead to awkwardness.
Now let's look at what you were told:
if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five
Unless there are only six people reporting to your boss, that's as enthusiastic endorsement as any I've heard. He could have said many things that were less enthusiastic, and given what I've written above, you are not going to get anything better. Your boss is going to give different levels of reassurance to people if he believes layoffs are coming - he will be very reassuring to people he wants to keep, and much less reassuring to people he doesn't want to keep. He was pretty reassuring with you. Unless you have some other reason to think your boss is being deceptive, take his statements at face value.
That doesn't mean you won't be let go. Your entire department may be cut. Your boss is also not in complete control of who gets let go from his department. He may also be asked to make cuts to a total salary rather than a specific number of people, and if you are senior or highly paid that might make you are target. But it does mean that, other assessments aside, you have reason for confidence.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:12
DJClayworth
40.7k886146
11
If the boss knows who is being laid off and tells people they are not on the list, the boss could lose his job. There are secrets managers must keep. If they can't be trusted to keep them, then they are a hazard to the organization and must go.
– HLGEM
Jul 19 '16 at 21:18
Not to mention being told "You definitely will not be fired" can also demotivate someone. "Why work so hard, you'll be paid the same, there is no budget for a raise, and I know I won't be fired".
– Aron
Jul 20 '16 at 3:42
Not to mention the legal difficulty a company could face if you were told you definitely weren't going to be fired and then were.
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:18
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
29
down vote
TLDR: Your boss is never going to give you a 100% guarantee that you are not going to be fired, and asking for one will only make things awkward.
Let's look at things from your boss' point of view.
Your boss will never tell you that you are going to be fired
You've identified the main reasons. Doing so would demotivate you, and cause you possibly not to finish essential tasks. Your demotivation would also infect those around you. Others will sympathize with you, and this will cause them to question their own positions. There are countries in the world where layoffs can be done gradually and in a dignified way, but the US is not one. You will never be told you are going to be fired until you are.
Your boss will never definitely say you are not going to be fired.
There are lots of reasons for this:
- Your boss often doesn't know for certain who is going to be fired, or if firings will happen.
- Your boss doesn't always get the last word in who gets fired from his department.
- If the boss says you will not be fired, and you are, they have destroyed their credibility, not just with you but with everybody who finds out about it (which will be everybody in the company)
- If the boss knows who will be fired, and tells one person they will definitely not be fired, everyone will come and ask him. That leaves him being forced to tell everyone they will 'definitely not be fired', except for the people who will be fired. The people who will be fired can then work that out, which means he has effectively told people they will be fired.
- Any kind of talk about firing is a problem for your boss. It's astonishing how fast gossip about layoffs can cripple a team's productivity.
- Giving advance notice of who is being laid off may cost your boss his job.
Trying to get a definitive statement from your boss will only lead to awkwardness.
Now let's look at what you were told:
if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five
Unless there are only six people reporting to your boss, that's as enthusiastic endorsement as any I've heard. He could have said many things that were less enthusiastic, and given what I've written above, you are not going to get anything better. Your boss is going to give different levels of reassurance to people if he believes layoffs are coming - he will be very reassuring to people he wants to keep, and much less reassuring to people he doesn't want to keep. He was pretty reassuring with you. Unless you have some other reason to think your boss is being deceptive, take his statements at face value.
That doesn't mean you won't be let go. Your entire department may be cut. Your boss is also not in complete control of who gets let go from his department. He may also be asked to make cuts to a total salary rather than a specific number of people, and if you are senior or highly paid that might make you are target. But it does mean that, other assessments aside, you have reason for confidence.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:12
DJClayworth
40.7k886146
11
If the boss knows who is being laid off and tells people they are not on the list, the boss could lose his job. There are secrets managers must keep. If they can't be trusted to keep them, then they are a hazard to the organization and must go.
– HLGEM
Jul 19 '16 at 21:18
Not to mention being told "You definitely will not be fired" can also demotivate someone. "Why work so hard, you'll be paid the same, there is no budget for a raise, and I know I won't be fired".
– Aron
Jul 20 '16 at 3:42
Not to mention the legal difficulty a company could face if you were told you definitely weren't going to be fired and then were.
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:18
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
29
down vote
up vote
29
down vote
TLDR: Your boss is never going to give you a 100% guarantee that you are not going to be fired, and asking for one will only make things awkward.
Let's look at things from your boss' point of view.
Your boss will never tell you that you are going to be fired
You've identified the main reasons. Doing so would demotivate you, and cause you possibly not to finish essential tasks. Your demotivation would also infect those around you. Others will sympathize with you, and this will cause them to question their own positions. There are countries in the world where layoffs can be done gradually and in a dignified way, but the US is not one. You will never be told you are going to be fired until you are.
Your boss will never definitely say you are not going to be fired.
There are lots of reasons for this:
- Your boss often doesn't know for certain who is going to be fired, or if firings will happen.
- Your boss doesn't always get the last word in who gets fired from his department.
- If the boss says you will not be fired, and you are, they have destroyed their credibility, not just with you but with everybody who finds out about it (which will be everybody in the company)
- If the boss knows who will be fired, and tells one person they will definitely not be fired, everyone will come and ask him. That leaves him being forced to tell everyone they will 'definitely not be fired', except for the people who will be fired. The people who will be fired can then work that out, which means he has effectively told people they will be fired.
- Any kind of talk about firing is a problem for your boss. It's astonishing how fast gossip about layoffs can cripple a team's productivity.
- Giving advance notice of who is being laid off may cost your boss his job.
Trying to get a definitive statement from your boss will only lead to awkwardness.
Now let's look at what you were told:
if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five
Unless there are only six people reporting to your boss, that's as enthusiastic endorsement as any I've heard. He could have said many things that were less enthusiastic, and given what I've written above, you are not going to get anything better. Your boss is going to give different levels of reassurance to people if he believes layoffs are coming - he will be very reassuring to people he wants to keep, and much less reassuring to people he doesn't want to keep. He was pretty reassuring with you. Unless you have some other reason to think your boss is being deceptive, take his statements at face value.
That doesn't mean you won't be let go. Your entire department may be cut. Your boss is also not in complete control of who gets let go from his department. He may also be asked to make cuts to a total salary rather than a specific number of people, and if you are senior or highly paid that might make you are target. But it does mean that, other assessments aside, you have reason for confidence.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:12
DJClayworth
40.7k886146
TLDR: Your boss is never going to give you a 100% guarantee that you are not going to be fired, and asking for one will only make things awkward.
Let's look at things from your boss' point of view.
Your boss will never tell you that you are going to be fired
You've identified the main reasons. Doing so would demotivate you, and cause you possibly not to finish essential tasks. Your demotivation would also infect those around you. Others will sympathize with you, and this will cause them to question their own positions. There are countries in the world where layoffs can be done gradually and in a dignified way, but the US is not one. You will never be told you are going to be fired until you are.
Your boss will never definitely say you are not going to be fired.
There are lots of reasons for this:
- Your boss often doesn't know for certain who is going to be fired, or if firings will happen.
- Your boss doesn't always get the last word in who gets fired from his department.
- If the boss says you will not be fired, and you are, they have destroyed their credibility, not just with you but with everybody who finds out about it (which will be everybody in the company)
- If the boss knows who will be fired, and tells one person they will definitely not be fired, everyone will come and ask him. That leaves him being forced to tell everyone they will 'definitely not be fired', except for the people who will be fired. The people who will be fired can then work that out, which means he has effectively told people they will be fired.
- Any kind of talk about firing is a problem for your boss. It's astonishing how fast gossip about layoffs can cripple a team's productivity.
- Giving advance notice of who is being laid off may cost your boss his job.
Trying to get a definitive statement from your boss will only lead to awkwardness.
Now let's look at what you were told:
if his boss came to him and made him pick five people that he'd definitely want to keep, I would be one of those five
Unless there are only six people reporting to your boss, that's as enthusiastic endorsement as any I've heard. He could have said many things that were less enthusiastic, and given what I've written above, you are not going to get anything better. Your boss is going to give different levels of reassurance to people if he believes layoffs are coming - he will be very reassuring to people he wants to keep, and much less reassuring to people he doesn't want to keep. He was pretty reassuring with you. Unless you have some other reason to think your boss is being deceptive, take his statements at face value.
That doesn't mean you won't be let go. Your entire department may be cut. Your boss is also not in complete control of who gets let go from his department. He may also be asked to make cuts to a total salary rather than a specific number of people, and if you are senior or highly paid that might make you are target. But it does mean that, other assessments aside, you have reason for confidence.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:12
DJClayworth
40.7k886146
edited Jul 20 '16 at 13:24
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:12
DJClayworth
40.7k886146
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:12
DJClayworth
40.7k886146
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:12
DJClayworth
40.7k886146
40.7k886146
11
If the boss knows who is being laid off and tells people they are not on the list, the boss could lose his job. There are secrets managers must keep. If they can't be trusted to keep them, then they are a hazard to the organization and must go.
– HLGEM
Jul 19 '16 at 21:18
Not to mention being told "You definitely will not be fired" can also demotivate someone. "Why work so hard, you'll be paid the same, there is no budget for a raise, and I know I won't be fired".
– Aron
Jul 20 '16 at 3:42
Not to mention the legal difficulty a company could face if you were told you definitely weren't going to be fired and then were.
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:18
suggest improvements |Â
11
If the boss knows who is being laid off and tells people they are not on the list, the boss could lose his job. There are secrets managers must keep. If they can't be trusted to keep them, then they are a hazard to the organization and must go.
– HLGEM
Jul 19 '16 at 21:18
Not to mention being told "You definitely will not be fired" can also demotivate someone. "Why work so hard, you'll be paid the same, there is no budget for a raise, and I know I won't be fired".
– Aron
Jul 20 '16 at 3:42
Not to mention the legal difficulty a company could face if you were told you definitely weren't going to be fired and then were.
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:18
11
11
If the boss knows who is being laid off and tells people they are not on the list, the boss could lose his job. There are secrets managers must keep. If they can't be trusted to keep them, then they are a hazard to the organization and must go.
– HLGEM
Jul 19 '16 at 21:18
If the boss knows who is being laid off and tells people they are not on the list, the boss could lose his job. There are secrets managers must keep. If they can't be trusted to keep them, then they are a hazard to the organization and must go.
– HLGEM
Jul 19 '16 at 21:18
Not to mention being told "You definitely will not be fired" can also demotivate someone. "Why work so hard, you'll be paid the same, there is no budget for a raise, and I know I won't be fired".
– Aron
Jul 20 '16 at 3:42
Not to mention being told "You definitely will not be fired" can also demotivate someone. "Why work so hard, you'll be paid the same, there is no budget for a raise, and I know I won't be fired".
– Aron
Jul 20 '16 at 3:42
Not to mention the legal difficulty a company could face if you were told you definitely weren't going to be fired and then were.
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:18
Not to mention the legal difficulty a company could face if you were told you definitely weren't going to be fired and then were.
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:18
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
7
down vote
Yes, your boss has plenty of reasons to lie, if in fact your job is in jeopardy.
For example, they might need you for another month -- they would then have no incentive to be straight with you, since you might leave at any time.
You can ask your boss all you want, but you will get the same answer. He can say with certainty that you are the best employee, and that he would keep you. But the decision might not be his.
I speak from experience -- what you describe, as you say, are classic signs you're about to be let go.
It's better to be wrong and prepared, so I would start looking for a new opportunity immediately.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:05
mcknz
15.6k55468
4
+1: It's better to be wrong and prepared Contingency planning is just a smart move.
– Myles
Jul 19 '16 at 22:09
some very solid advice
– veryRandomMe
Jul 19 '16 at 23:29
Before you go running off to another company, you are there 6 years - what kind of redundancy package would you expect if you were let go?
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:20
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
7
down vote
Yes, your boss has plenty of reasons to lie, if in fact your job is in jeopardy.
For example, they might need you for another month -- they would then have no incentive to be straight with you, since you might leave at any time.
You can ask your boss all you want, but you will get the same answer. He can say with certainty that you are the best employee, and that he would keep you. But the decision might not be his.
I speak from experience -- what you describe, as you say, are classic signs you're about to be let go.
It's better to be wrong and prepared, so I would start looking for a new opportunity immediately.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:05
mcknz
15.6k55468
4
+1: It's better to be wrong and prepared Contingency planning is just a smart move.
– Myles
Jul 19 '16 at 22:09
some very solid advice
– veryRandomMe
Jul 19 '16 at 23:29
Before you go running off to another company, you are there 6 years - what kind of redundancy package would you expect if you were let go?
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:20
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
Yes, your boss has plenty of reasons to lie, if in fact your job is in jeopardy.
For example, they might need you for another month -- they would then have no incentive to be straight with you, since you might leave at any time.
You can ask your boss all you want, but you will get the same answer. He can say with certainty that you are the best employee, and that he would keep you. But the decision might not be his.
I speak from experience -- what you describe, as you say, are classic signs you're about to be let go.
It's better to be wrong and prepared, so I would start looking for a new opportunity immediately.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:05
mcknz
15.6k55468
Yes, your boss has plenty of reasons to lie, if in fact your job is in jeopardy.
For example, they might need you for another month -- they would then have no incentive to be straight with you, since you might leave at any time.
You can ask your boss all you want, but you will get the same answer. He can say with certainty that you are the best employee, and that he would keep you. But the decision might not be his.
I speak from experience -- what you describe, as you say, are classic signs you're about to be let go.
It's better to be wrong and prepared, so I would start looking for a new opportunity immediately.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:05
mcknz
15.6k55468
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:05
mcknz
15.6k55468
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:05
mcknz
15.6k55468
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:05
mcknz
15.6k55468
15.6k55468
4
+1: It's better to be wrong and prepared Contingency planning is just a smart move.
– Myles
Jul 19 '16 at 22:09
some very solid advice
– veryRandomMe
Jul 19 '16 at 23:29
Before you go running off to another company, you are there 6 years - what kind of redundancy package would you expect if you were let go?
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:20
suggest improvements |Â
4
+1: It's better to be wrong and prepared Contingency planning is just a smart move.
– Myles
Jul 19 '16 at 22:09
some very solid advice
– veryRandomMe
Jul 19 '16 at 23:29
Before you go running off to another company, you are there 6 years - what kind of redundancy package would you expect if you were let go?
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:20
4
4
+1: It's better to be wrong and prepared Contingency planning is just a smart move.
– Myles
Jul 19 '16 at 22:09
+1: It's better to be wrong and prepared Contingency planning is just a smart move.
– Myles
Jul 19 '16 at 22:09
some very solid advice
– veryRandomMe
Jul 19 '16 at 23:29
some very solid advice
– veryRandomMe
Jul 19 '16 at 23:29
Before you go running off to another company, you are there 6 years - what kind of redundancy package would you expect if you were let go?
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:20
Before you go running off to another company, you are there 6 years - what kind of redundancy package would you expect if you were let go?
– colmde
Jul 20 '16 at 13:20
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
4
down vote
In addition to mcknz answer, the boss may not know.
Are there rumors about more layoffs, particularly in your group?
There may be top level discussions about laying off a division, department, outsourcing roles, groups, or various other things. Your boss might know about these discussions, but like mcknz said, may not be allowed to tell you, or may not know if or when.
Maybe the C-level says "If sales in division X don't go up by 10% in the next quarter then we will shut down division X".
It sounds like they want to keep you onboard, which is good. Some companies will lay off people they want rid off rather than firing them (less conflict that way).
So, you don't know, you won't know, until you know.
Therefore, get your resume together, start making contacts, and follow the guidelines for getting a new job. It can take much longer to find a job than your lay-off benefits will really last. Get started now.
If you get started, and you get laid off, you are ahead vs. if you do nothing.
If you get started, and you don't get laid off, you have lost nothing but some time in preparation, and you might gain a new job with more money, benefits, seniority, schedule, or other good thing.
There is a slight possibility that you can ask for a contract and longer lay-off benefits if they really do need you. But be careful, as this shows that you don't trust them.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:14
MikeP
66538
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
4
down vote
In addition to mcknz answer, the boss may not know.
Are there rumors about more layoffs, particularly in your group?
There may be top level discussions about laying off a division, department, outsourcing roles, groups, or various other things. Your boss might know about these discussions, but like mcknz said, may not be allowed to tell you, or may not know if or when.
Maybe the C-level says "If sales in division X don't go up by 10% in the next quarter then we will shut down division X".
It sounds like they want to keep you onboard, which is good. Some companies will lay off people they want rid off rather than firing them (less conflict that way).
So, you don't know, you won't know, until you know.
Therefore, get your resume together, start making contacts, and follow the guidelines for getting a new job. It can take much longer to find a job than your lay-off benefits will really last. Get started now.
If you get started, and you get laid off, you are ahead vs. if you do nothing.
If you get started, and you don't get laid off, you have lost nothing but some time in preparation, and you might gain a new job with more money, benefits, seniority, schedule, or other good thing.
There is a slight possibility that you can ask for a contract and longer lay-off benefits if they really do need you. But be careful, as this shows that you don't trust them.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:14
MikeP
66538
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
In addition to mcknz answer, the boss may not know.
Are there rumors about more layoffs, particularly in your group?
There may be top level discussions about laying off a division, department, outsourcing roles, groups, or various other things. Your boss might know about these discussions, but like mcknz said, may not be allowed to tell you, or may not know if or when.
Maybe the C-level says "If sales in division X don't go up by 10% in the next quarter then we will shut down division X".
It sounds like they want to keep you onboard, which is good. Some companies will lay off people they want rid off rather than firing them (less conflict that way).
So, you don't know, you won't know, until you know.
Therefore, get your resume together, start making contacts, and follow the guidelines for getting a new job. It can take much longer to find a job than your lay-off benefits will really last. Get started now.
If you get started, and you get laid off, you are ahead vs. if you do nothing.
If you get started, and you don't get laid off, you have lost nothing but some time in preparation, and you might gain a new job with more money, benefits, seniority, schedule, or other good thing.
There is a slight possibility that you can ask for a contract and longer lay-off benefits if they really do need you. But be careful, as this shows that you don't trust them.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:14
MikeP
66538
In addition to mcknz answer, the boss may not know.
Are there rumors about more layoffs, particularly in your group?
There may be top level discussions about laying off a division, department, outsourcing roles, groups, or various other things. Your boss might know about these discussions, but like mcknz said, may not be allowed to tell you, or may not know if or when.
Maybe the C-level says "If sales in division X don't go up by 10% in the next quarter then we will shut down division X".
It sounds like they want to keep you onboard, which is good. Some companies will lay off people they want rid off rather than firing them (less conflict that way).
So, you don't know, you won't know, until you know.
Therefore, get your resume together, start making contacts, and follow the guidelines for getting a new job. It can take much longer to find a job than your lay-off benefits will really last. Get started now.
If you get started, and you get laid off, you are ahead vs. if you do nothing.
If you get started, and you don't get laid off, you have lost nothing but some time in preparation, and you might gain a new job with more money, benefits, seniority, schedule, or other good thing.
There is a slight possibility that you can ask for a contract and longer lay-off benefits if they really do need you. But be careful, as this shows that you don't trust them.
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:14
MikeP
66538
edited Jul 19 '16 at 21:52
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:14
MikeP
66538
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:14
MikeP
66538
answered Jul 19 '16 at 21:14
MikeP
66538
66538
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
There actually is a reason for your boss to decline to answer the question you asked even if the answer is "no". It's not always a clinching reason, but it's playing the longer game.
You asked "are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?". You already know the reason not to answer "yes". If your boss were to answer "no" when you asked this, and then "I decline to answer the question" when you ask again 6 months later, then he has as good as told you the answer is yes.
If your boss answered "no" to this question six months ago, refresh your CV.
So your boss has two options that don't leak confidential information that he wants to conceal from you: always say no regardless of the truth, or always avoid the question. You know he hasn't taken the option that requires being prepared to lie to you[*], which is something, but gets you no closer to the actual answer to your question.
That said, he could have explicitly avoided the question by saying something like, "any such conversations would be strictly confidential, so you understand I can't answer questions like that". But at this point he's deciding on the spot what he thinks will best reassure you. You really can't deduce anything either way from his response, unless you have some insight into his personality that he'd do a particular thing in one of the two situations, and he didn't do that thing here.
The rule of thumb, and there are exceptions, is this: if one answer to a yes/no question would cause you to refuse to answer, then you shouldn't answer that question even if the true answer is the other one. So in this case, you don't answer questions about confidential management discussions.
In its full glorious complexity, this issue relates to whether, when, and to what extent, a court or a jury is permitted to infer guilt from a refusal to answer particular questions. And one technique available to journalists is to try to lure someone down the path: "I don't suppose you've ever shoplifted, have you, even as a child?", "Of course not!", "Have you ever lied to the electorate in a campaign speech?", "Well, that's a very interesting and pertinent question, and I'm glad you asked me that. The thing is that my opponent...". Oops. Once you start answering "no" to that sort of question, you need to be all-in ready to lie, with all the risk involved in that.
[*] Well, not strictly true, he might be taking the tactic "always lie to the questioner by exaggerating their value to the company, all-around talent, toothsome physical appearance, and fresh minty smell".
answered Jul 20 '16 at 0:29
Steve Jessop
8,9081941
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
There actually is a reason for your boss to decline to answer the question you asked even if the answer is "no". It's not always a clinching reason, but it's playing the longer game.
You asked "are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?". You already know the reason not to answer "yes". If your boss were to answer "no" when you asked this, and then "I decline to answer the question" when you ask again 6 months later, then he has as good as told you the answer is yes.
If your boss answered "no" to this question six months ago, refresh your CV.
So your boss has two options that don't leak confidential information that he wants to conceal from you: always say no regardless of the truth, or always avoid the question. You know he hasn't taken the option that requires being prepared to lie to you[*], which is something, but gets you no closer to the actual answer to your question.
That said, he could have explicitly avoided the question by saying something like, "any such conversations would be strictly confidential, so you understand I can't answer questions like that". But at this point he's deciding on the spot what he thinks will best reassure you. You really can't deduce anything either way from his response, unless you have some insight into his personality that he'd do a particular thing in one of the two situations, and he didn't do that thing here.
The rule of thumb, and there are exceptions, is this: if one answer to a yes/no question would cause you to refuse to answer, then you shouldn't answer that question even if the true answer is the other one. So in this case, you don't answer questions about confidential management discussions.
In its full glorious complexity, this issue relates to whether, when, and to what extent, a court or a jury is permitted to infer guilt from a refusal to answer particular questions. And one technique available to journalists is to try to lure someone down the path: "I don't suppose you've ever shoplifted, have you, even as a child?", "Of course not!", "Have you ever lied to the electorate in a campaign speech?", "Well, that's a very interesting and pertinent question, and I'm glad you asked me that. The thing is that my opponent...". Oops. Once you start answering "no" to that sort of question, you need to be all-in ready to lie, with all the risk involved in that.
[*] Well, not strictly true, he might be taking the tactic "always lie to the questioner by exaggerating their value to the company, all-around talent, toothsome physical appearance, and fresh minty smell".
answered Jul 20 '16 at 0:29
Steve Jessop
8,9081941
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There actually is a reason for your boss to decline to answer the question you asked even if the answer is "no". It's not always a clinching reason, but it's playing the longer game.
You asked "are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?". You already know the reason not to answer "yes". If your boss were to answer "no" when you asked this, and then "I decline to answer the question" when you ask again 6 months later, then he has as good as told you the answer is yes.
If your boss answered "no" to this question six months ago, refresh your CV.
So your boss has two options that don't leak confidential information that he wants to conceal from you: always say no regardless of the truth, or always avoid the question. You know he hasn't taken the option that requires being prepared to lie to you[*], which is something, but gets you no closer to the actual answer to your question.
That said, he could have explicitly avoided the question by saying something like, "any such conversations would be strictly confidential, so you understand I can't answer questions like that". But at this point he's deciding on the spot what he thinks will best reassure you. You really can't deduce anything either way from his response, unless you have some insight into his personality that he'd do a particular thing in one of the two situations, and he didn't do that thing here.
The rule of thumb, and there are exceptions, is this: if one answer to a yes/no question would cause you to refuse to answer, then you shouldn't answer that question even if the true answer is the other one. So in this case, you don't answer questions about confidential management discussions.
In its full glorious complexity, this issue relates to whether, when, and to what extent, a court or a jury is permitted to infer guilt from a refusal to answer particular questions. And one technique available to journalists is to try to lure someone down the path: "I don't suppose you've ever shoplifted, have you, even as a child?", "Of course not!", "Have you ever lied to the electorate in a campaign speech?", "Well, that's a very interesting and pertinent question, and I'm glad you asked me that. The thing is that my opponent...". Oops. Once you start answering "no" to that sort of question, you need to be all-in ready to lie, with all the risk involved in that.
[*] Well, not strictly true, he might be taking the tactic "always lie to the questioner by exaggerating their value to the company, all-around talent, toothsome physical appearance, and fresh minty smell".
answered Jul 20 '16 at 0:29
Steve Jessop
8,9081941
There actually is a reason for your boss to decline to answer the question you asked even if the answer is "no". It's not always a clinching reason, but it's playing the longer game.
You asked "are you aware of any discussions that have taken place that pertain in any way to my involuntary dismissal from this company?". You already know the reason not to answer "yes". If your boss were to answer "no" when you asked this, and then "I decline to answer the question" when you ask again 6 months later, then he has as good as told you the answer is yes.
If your boss answered "no" to this question six months ago, refresh your CV.
So your boss has two options that don't leak confidential information that he wants to conceal from you: always say no regardless of the truth, or always avoid the question. You know he hasn't taken the option that requires being prepared to lie to you[*], which is something, but gets you no closer to the actual answer to your question.
That said, he could have explicitly avoided the question by saying something like, "any such conversations would be strictly confidential, so you understand I can't answer questions like that". But at this point he's deciding on the spot what he thinks will best reassure you. You really can't deduce anything either way from his response, unless you have some insight into his personality that he'd do a particular thing in one of the two situations, and he didn't do that thing here.
The rule of thumb, and there are exceptions, is this: if one answer to a yes/no question would cause you to refuse to answer, then you shouldn't answer that question even if the true answer is the other one. So in this case, you don't answer questions about confidential management discussions.
In its full glorious complexity, this issue relates to whether, when, and to what extent, a court or a jury is permitted to infer guilt from a refusal to answer particular questions. And one technique available to journalists is to try to lure someone down the path: "I don't suppose you've ever shoplifted, have you, even as a child?", "Of course not!", "Have you ever lied to the electorate in a campaign speech?", "Well, that's a very interesting and pertinent question, and I'm glad you asked me that. The thing is that my opponent...". Oops. Once you start answering "no" to that sort of question, you need to be all-in ready to lie, with all the risk involved in that.
[*] Well, not strictly true, he might be taking the tactic "always lie to the questioner by exaggerating their value to the company, all-around talent, toothsome physical appearance, and fresh minty smell".
answered Jul 20 '16 at 0:29
Steve Jessop
8,9081941
edited Jul 20 '16 at 1:00
answered Jul 20 '16 at 0:29
Steve Jessop
8,9081941
answered Jul 20 '16 at 0:29
Steve Jessop
8,9081941
answered Jul 20 '16 at 0:29
Steve Jessop
8,9081941
8,9081941
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
1
You know your boss better than we do. We can't read his mind.
– keshlam
Jul 19 '16 at 20:58
2
How can I get the jump on my employer if they truly are planning to get rid of me?- obvious way: get another job. As for whether they think they might fire you: it's almost never something they let people know (a long time) in advance. OTOH, had they already decided to get rid of you (and just you) why are they still keeping you around?– 500 - Internal Server Error
Jul 19 '16 at 21:01
The answers here might be really useful to you. Keep in mind it is not only your bosses opinion that matters, but also his boss and his peers - depending on what level the layoffs are decided at. If your boss loves you but every other manager at your company thinks you are annoying or not good at your job, it might not matter what your boss thinks. It is among other reasons why positive visibility is important. I don't have time to write this up into a "real" answer right now unfortunately.
– Elysian Fields♦
Jul 19 '16 at 22:24