Potent Cantrip with Toll the Dead vs Evasion

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I've been allowing the party's big bad enemy (a tenth-level wizard) to essentially always do damage with toll the dead. Even against the party's monk and rogue which have Evasion. And my group is claiming I'm cheating, or reading the rules wrong in my favor. But I thought it was pretty clear. Did I make a (R.A.W.) false ruling?

Potent Cantrip: Starting at 6th level, your damaging cantrips
affect even creatures that avoid the brunt of the effect. When a
creature succeeds on a saving throw against your cantrip, the creature
takes half the cantrip’s damage (if any) but suffers no additional
effect from the cantrip.

10th level Evocation Wizard casts toll the dead, and the party's Rogue makes her required Wisdom saving throw.

Toll the dead: You point at one creature you can see within
range, and the sound of a dolorous bell fills the air around it for a
moment. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take 1d8
necrotic damage. If the target is missing any of its hit points, it
instead takes 1d12 necrotic damage.

Evocation Wizard rolls out the damage and divides it in half. Then the argument starts: Our Rogue claims that since she made her save, she actually takes zero damage.

Evasion: Beginning at 7th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the
way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon's fiery breath or an
Ice Storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you
to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead
take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half
damage if you fail.

But it specifically says "Dexterity saving throw" so I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Evasion simply would not apply in this case, as toll the dead forces a Wisdom saving throw. And made her, and the party's monk, take half damage. Did I screw over my party?

dnd-5e class-feature wizard rogue cantrips

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edited Sep 9 at 8:20

V2Blast

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asked Sep 9 at 7:47

AshRandom

1,325627

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Related: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:21
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
18
down vote

favorite

1

I've been allowing the party's big bad enemy (a tenth-level wizard) to essentially always do damage with toll the dead. Even against the party's monk and rogue which have Evasion. And my group is claiming I'm cheating, or reading the rules wrong in my favor. But I thought it was pretty clear. Did I make a (R.A.W.) false ruling?

Potent Cantrip: Starting at 6th level, your damaging cantrips
affect even creatures that avoid the brunt of the effect. When a
creature succeeds on a saving throw against your cantrip, the creature
takes half the cantrip’s damage (if any) but suffers no additional
effect from the cantrip.

10th level Evocation Wizard casts toll the dead, and the party's Rogue makes her required Wisdom saving throw.

Toll the dead: You point at one creature you can see within
range, and the sound of a dolorous bell fills the air around it for a
moment. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take 1d8
necrotic damage. If the target is missing any of its hit points, it
instead takes 1d12 necrotic damage.

Evocation Wizard rolls out the damage and divides it in half. Then the argument starts: Our Rogue claims that since she made her save, she actually takes zero damage.

Evasion: Beginning at 7th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the
way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon's fiery breath or an
Ice Storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you
to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead
take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half
damage if you fail.

But it specifically says "Dexterity saving throw" so I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Evasion simply would not apply in this case, as toll the dead forces a Wisdom saving throw. And made her, and the party's monk, take half damage. Did I screw over my party?

dnd-5e class-feature wizard rogue cantrips

share|improve this question

edited Sep 9 at 8:20

V2Blast

14.1k23593

asked Sep 9 at 7:47

AshRandom

1,325627

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Related: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:21
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
18
down vote

favorite

1

up vote
18
down vote

favorite

1

1

I've been allowing the party's big bad enemy (a tenth-level wizard) to essentially always do damage with toll the dead. Even against the party's monk and rogue which have Evasion. And my group is claiming I'm cheating, or reading the rules wrong in my favor. But I thought it was pretty clear. Did I make a (R.A.W.) false ruling?

Potent Cantrip: Starting at 6th level, your damaging cantrips
affect even creatures that avoid the brunt of the effect. When a
creature succeeds on a saving throw against your cantrip, the creature
takes half the cantrip’s damage (if any) but suffers no additional
effect from the cantrip.

10th level Evocation Wizard casts toll the dead, and the party's Rogue makes her required Wisdom saving throw.

Toll the dead: You point at one creature you can see within
range, and the sound of a dolorous bell fills the air around it for a
moment. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take 1d8
necrotic damage. If the target is missing any of its hit points, it
instead takes 1d12 necrotic damage.

Evocation Wizard rolls out the damage and divides it in half. Then the argument starts: Our Rogue claims that since she made her save, she actually takes zero damage.

Evasion: Beginning at 7th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the
way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon's fiery breath or an
Ice Storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you
to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead
take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half
damage if you fail.

But it specifically says "Dexterity saving throw" so I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Evasion simply would not apply in this case, as toll the dead forces a Wisdom saving throw. And made her, and the party's monk, take half damage. Did I screw over my party?

dnd-5e class-feature wizard rogue cantrips

share|improve this question

edited Sep 9 at 8:20

V2Blast

14.1k23593

asked Sep 9 at 7:47

AshRandom

1,325627

I've been allowing the party's big bad enemy (a tenth-level wizard) to essentially always do damage with toll the dead. Even against the party's monk and rogue which have Evasion. And my group is claiming I'm cheating, or reading the rules wrong in my favor. But I thought it was pretty clear. Did I make a (R.A.W.) false ruling?

Potent Cantrip: Starting at 6th level, your damaging cantrips
affect even creatures that avoid the brunt of the effect. When a
creature succeeds on a saving throw against your cantrip, the creature
takes half the cantrip’s damage (if any) but suffers no additional
effect from the cantrip.

10th level Evocation Wizard casts toll the dead, and the party's Rogue makes her required Wisdom saving throw.

Toll the dead: You point at one creature you can see within
range, and the sound of a dolorous bell fills the air around it for a
moment. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take 1d8
necrotic damage. If the target is missing any of its hit points, it
instead takes 1d12 necrotic damage.

Evocation Wizard rolls out the damage and divides it in half. Then the argument starts: Our Rogue claims that since she made her save, she actually takes zero damage.

Evasion: Beginning at 7th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the
way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon's fiery breath or an
Ice Storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you
to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead
take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half
damage if you fail.

But it specifically says "Dexterity saving throw" so I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Evasion simply would not apply in this case, as toll the dead forces a Wisdom saving throw. And made her, and the party's monk, take half damage. Did I screw over my party?

dnd-5e class-feature wizard rogue cantrips

dnd-5e class-feature wizard rogue cantrips

share|improve this question

edited Sep 9 at 8:20

V2Blast

14.1k23593

asked Sep 9 at 7:47

AshRandom

1,325627

share|improve this question

edited Sep 9 at 8:20

V2Blast

14.1k23593

asked Sep 9 at 7:47

AshRandom

1,325627

share|improve this question

share|improve this question

edited Sep 9 at 8:20

V2Blast

14.1k23593

edited Sep 9 at 8:20

V2Blast

14.1k23593

edited Sep 9 at 8:20

V2Blast

14.1k23593

14.1k23593

asked Sep 9 at 7:47

AshRandom

1,325627

asked Sep 9 at 7:47

AshRandom

1,325627

asked Sep 9 at 7:47

AshRandom

1,325627

1,325627

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Related: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:21
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Related: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:21
  

  
  
  
  

1

1

Related: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
– V2Blast
Sep 9 at 8:21

Related: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
– V2Blast
Sep 9 at 8:21

add a comment | 

2 Answers
2

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votes

up vote
35
down vote

The Rogue and Monk would take half damage

Your argument seems sound. Since the Evasion feature specifies Dexterity saving throws, but Toll the Dead requires a Wisdom saving throw, Evasion simply doesn't apply here. So they would take full damage from Toll the Dead if they fail the Wisdom saving throw, or half the damage if they succeed due to the Potent Cantrip feature.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 9 at 7:59

NathanS

14.9k365164

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It may be worth noting that D&D 3.5e used the ability “mettle” for an effect similar to evasion that applied to Fortitude and Will (roughly, Con and Wis) saving throws. Gives some precedence/historical support to the idea, perhaps.
  – KRyan
  Sep 9 at 13:45
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
13
down vote

No, you didn't.

As you noticed, Evasion works only against spells requiring Dexterity saving throws. As Toll the Dead reqires Wisdom saving throw, Evasion is not applicable in this case.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 9 at 13:14

answered Sep 9 at 7:57

Revolver_Ocelot

64238

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'm not sure your second paragraph is true. Relevant question/answer: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:23
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MrHiTech, you can remove your comment (and your downvote)
  – András
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

up vote
35
down vote

The Rogue and Monk would take half damage

Your argument seems sound. Since the Evasion feature specifies Dexterity saving throws, but Toll the Dead requires a Wisdom saving throw, Evasion simply doesn't apply here. So they would take full damage from Toll the Dead if they fail the Wisdom saving throw, or half the damage if they succeed due to the Potent Cantrip feature.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 9 at 7:59

NathanS

14.9k365164

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It may be worth noting that D&D 3.5e used the ability “mettle” for an effect similar to evasion that applied to Fortitude and Will (roughly, Con and Wis) saving throws. Gives some precedence/historical support to the idea, perhaps.
  – KRyan
  Sep 9 at 13:45
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
35
down vote

The Rogue and Monk would take half damage

Your argument seems sound. Since the Evasion feature specifies Dexterity saving throws, but Toll the Dead requires a Wisdom saving throw, Evasion simply doesn't apply here. So they would take full damage from Toll the Dead if they fail the Wisdom saving throw, or half the damage if they succeed due to the Potent Cantrip feature.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 9 at 7:59

NathanS

14.9k365164

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It may be worth noting that D&D 3.5e used the ability “mettle” for an effect similar to evasion that applied to Fortitude and Will (roughly, Con and Wis) saving throws. Gives some precedence/historical support to the idea, perhaps.
  – KRyan
  Sep 9 at 13:45
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
35
down vote

up vote
35
down vote

The Rogue and Monk would take half damage

Your argument seems sound. Since the Evasion feature specifies Dexterity saving throws, but Toll the Dead requires a Wisdom saving throw, Evasion simply doesn't apply here. So they would take full damage from Toll the Dead if they fail the Wisdom saving throw, or half the damage if they succeed due to the Potent Cantrip feature.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 9 at 7:59

NathanS

14.9k365164

The Rogue and Monk would take half damage

Your argument seems sound. Since the Evasion feature specifies Dexterity saving throws, but Toll the Dead requires a Wisdom saving throw, Evasion simply doesn't apply here. So they would take full damage from Toll the Dead if they fail the Wisdom saving throw, or half the damage if they succeed due to the Potent Cantrip feature.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 9 at 7:59

NathanS

14.9k365164

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 9 at 7:59

NathanS

14.9k365164

answered Sep 9 at 7:59

NathanS

14.9k365164

answered Sep 9 at 7:59

NathanS

14.9k365164

14.9k365164

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It may be worth noting that D&D 3.5e used the ability “mettle” for an effect similar to evasion that applied to Fortitude and Will (roughly, Con and Wis) saving throws. Gives some precedence/historical support to the idea, perhaps.
  – KRyan
  Sep 9 at 13:45
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It may be worth noting that D&D 3.5e used the ability “mettle” for an effect similar to evasion that applied to Fortitude and Will (roughly, Con and Wis) saving throws. Gives some precedence/historical support to the idea, perhaps.
  – KRyan
  Sep 9 at 13:45
  

  
  
  
  

3

3

It may be worth noting that D&D 3.5e used the ability “mettle” for an effect similar to evasion that applied to Fortitude and Will (roughly, Con and Wis) saving throws. Gives some precedence/historical support to the idea, perhaps.
– KRyan
Sep 9 at 13:45

It may be worth noting that D&D 3.5e used the ability “mettle” for an effect similar to evasion that applied to Fortitude and Will (roughly, Con and Wis) saving throws. Gives some precedence/historical support to the idea, perhaps.
– KRyan
Sep 9 at 13:45

add a comment | 

up vote
13
down vote

No, you didn't.

As you noticed, Evasion works only against spells requiring Dexterity saving throws. As Toll the Dead reqires Wisdom saving throw, Evasion is not applicable in this case.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 9 at 13:14

answered Sep 9 at 7:57

Revolver_Ocelot

64238

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'm not sure your second paragraph is true. Relevant question/answer: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:23
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MrHiTech, you can remove your comment (and your downvote)
  – András
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
13
down vote

No, you didn't.

As you noticed, Evasion works only against spells requiring Dexterity saving throws. As Toll the Dead reqires Wisdom saving throw, Evasion is not applicable in this case.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 9 at 13:14

answered Sep 9 at 7:57

Revolver_Ocelot

64238

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'm not sure your second paragraph is true. Relevant question/answer: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:23
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MrHiTech, you can remove your comment (and your downvote)
  – András
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
13
down vote

up vote
13
down vote

No, you didn't.

As you noticed, Evasion works only against spells requiring Dexterity saving throws. As Toll the Dead reqires Wisdom saving throw, Evasion is not applicable in this case.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 9 at 13:14

answered Sep 9 at 7:57

Revolver_Ocelot

64238

No, you didn't.

As you noticed, Evasion works only against spells requiring Dexterity saving throws. As Toll the Dead reqires Wisdom saving throw, Evasion is not applicable in this case.

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 9 at 13:14

answered Sep 9 at 7:57

Revolver_Ocelot

64238

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited Sep 9 at 13:14

edited Sep 9 at 13:14

edited Sep 9 at 13:14

answered Sep 9 at 7:57

Revolver_Ocelot

64238

answered Sep 9 at 7:57

Revolver_Ocelot

64238

answered Sep 9 at 7:57

Revolver_Ocelot

64238

64238

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'm not sure your second paragraph is true. Relevant question/answer: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:23
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MrHiTech, you can remove your comment (and your downvote)
  – András
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I'm not sure your second paragraph is true. Relevant question/answer: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
  – V2Blast
  Sep 9 at 8:23
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @MrHiTech, you can remove your comment (and your downvote)
  – András
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  

2

2

I'm not sure your second paragraph is true. Relevant question/answer: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
– V2Blast
Sep 9 at 8:23

I'm not sure your second paragraph is true. Relevant question/answer: Potent Cantrip vs Evasion
– V2Blast
Sep 9 at 8:23

@MrHiTech, you can remove your comment (and your downvote)
– András
2 days ago

@MrHiTech, you can remove your comment (and your downvote)
– András
2 days ago

add a comment | 

 

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