Does tenure protection extend to professors saying that evolution is false in class?

Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP

up vote
63
down vote

favorite

3

So I'm dealing with a very weird case here. I'm a PhD student and my wife is currently taking a history course at a different university. Apparently this instructor says he has tenure so no one can do anything about his rambling.

He spends a sizable chunk of the course ranting about how evolution is false because there's no proof of it, that Neanderthals didn't exist, and how humans aren't apes. He also claimed the Earth isn't 4 billion years old and people lived with dinosaurs.

This is obviously very obnoxious and disturbing to sit through. But is it true that his rambling is protected by tenure? If we were to complain could anything be done? Thanks.

tenure-track

share|improve this question

edited Sep 8 at 19:49

Thomas

6,87631631

asked Sep 8 at 15:16

Chiki

333124

New contributor

Chiki is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  52
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What kind of a history course is this? Specifically, is the discussion about evolution at all relevant to the subject of the course, or is it a completely unrelated rant? The answer could depend on this. In any case, the short answer is that even professors with tenure are accountable for things they say in class, and may be disciplined for unprofessional conduct, up to and including getting fired. However, termination, would be an extremely rare and unusual consequence for the behavior you are describing. A stern talking to from the department chair sounds much more likely.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 16:35
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  19
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I feel like the biggest leverage I've seen is to get this kind of thing written up in the student newspaper, local press, hopefully go viral. That's sort of the nuclear option.
  – Daniel R. Collins
  Sep 8 at 17:32
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  11
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What's your goal? Is the goal to stop the rambling or is the goal to get him fired?
  – Mast
  Sep 9 at 9:30
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Also, is it a public university or private university? (makes a difference) And can we take it's somewhere in the US?
  – smci
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Just because you disagree with something does not make it obnoxious. Some of my favourite lectures were the lecturer ranting about something they were passionate about. If it's off-topic and hindering the course that's a different issue. I'd encourage you to research and challenge anything you think is false, but university is meant to be about broadening your knowledge. You can't just get someone fired or silenced because you disagree with what they say.
  – SystemParadox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 13 more comments

up vote
63
down vote

favorite

3

So I'm dealing with a very weird case here. I'm a PhD student and my wife is currently taking a history course at a different university. Apparently this instructor says he has tenure so no one can do anything about his rambling.

He spends a sizable chunk of the course ranting about how evolution is false because there's no proof of it, that Neanderthals didn't exist, and how humans aren't apes. He also claimed the Earth isn't 4 billion years old and people lived with dinosaurs.

This is obviously very obnoxious and disturbing to sit through. But is it true that his rambling is protected by tenure? If we were to complain could anything be done? Thanks.

tenure-track

share|improve this question

edited Sep 8 at 19:49

Thomas

6,87631631

asked Sep 8 at 15:16

Chiki

333124

New contributor

Chiki is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  52
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What kind of a history course is this? Specifically, is the discussion about evolution at all relevant to the subject of the course, or is it a completely unrelated rant? The answer could depend on this. In any case, the short answer is that even professors with tenure are accountable for things they say in class, and may be disciplined for unprofessional conduct, up to and including getting fired. However, termination, would be an extremely rare and unusual consequence for the behavior you are describing. A stern talking to from the department chair sounds much more likely.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 16:35
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  19
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I feel like the biggest leverage I've seen is to get this kind of thing written up in the student newspaper, local press, hopefully go viral. That's sort of the nuclear option.
  – Daniel R. Collins
  Sep 8 at 17:32
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  11
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What's your goal? Is the goal to stop the rambling or is the goal to get him fired?
  – Mast
  Sep 9 at 9:30
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Also, is it a public university or private university? (makes a difference) And can we take it's somewhere in the US?
  – smci
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Just because you disagree with something does not make it obnoxious. Some of my favourite lectures were the lecturer ranting about something they were passionate about. If it's off-topic and hindering the course that's a different issue. I'd encourage you to research and challenge anything you think is false, but university is meant to be about broadening your knowledge. You can't just get someone fired or silenced because you disagree with what they say.
  – SystemParadox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 13 more comments

up vote
63
down vote

favorite

3

up vote
63
down vote

favorite

3

3

So I'm dealing with a very weird case here. I'm a PhD student and my wife is currently taking a history course at a different university. Apparently this instructor says he has tenure so no one can do anything about his rambling.

He spends a sizable chunk of the course ranting about how evolution is false because there's no proof of it, that Neanderthals didn't exist, and how humans aren't apes. He also claimed the Earth isn't 4 billion years old and people lived with dinosaurs.

This is obviously very obnoxious and disturbing to sit through. But is it true that his rambling is protected by tenure? If we were to complain could anything be done? Thanks.

tenure-track

share|improve this question

edited Sep 8 at 19:49

Thomas

6,87631631

asked Sep 8 at 15:16

Chiki

333124

New contributor

Chiki is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

So I'm dealing with a very weird case here. I'm a PhD student and my wife is currently taking a history course at a different university. Apparently this instructor says he has tenure so no one can do anything about his rambling.

He spends a sizable chunk of the course ranting about how evolution is false because there's no proof of it, that Neanderthals didn't exist, and how humans aren't apes. He also claimed the Earth isn't 4 billion years old and people lived with dinosaurs.

This is obviously very obnoxious and disturbing to sit through. But is it true that his rambling is protected by tenure? If we were to complain could anything be done? Thanks.

tenure-track

share|improve this question

edited Sep 8 at 19:49

Thomas

6,87631631

asked Sep 8 at 15:16

Chiki

333124

New contributor

Chiki is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

share|improve this question

edited Sep 8 at 19:49

Thomas

6,87631631

edited Sep 8 at 19:49

Thomas

6,87631631

edited Sep 8 at 19:49

Thomas

6,87631631

6,87631631

asked Sep 8 at 15:16

Chiki

333124

New contributor

Chiki is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked Sep 8 at 15:16

Chiki

333124

asked Sep 8 at 15:16

Chiki

333124

333124

New contributor

Chiki is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

New contributor

Chiki is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

Chiki is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  52
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What kind of a history course is this? Specifically, is the discussion about evolution at all relevant to the subject of the course, or is it a completely unrelated rant? The answer could depend on this. In any case, the short answer is that even professors with tenure are accountable for things they say in class, and may be disciplined for unprofessional conduct, up to and including getting fired. However, termination, would be an extremely rare and unusual consequence for the behavior you are describing. A stern talking to from the department chair sounds much more likely.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 16:35
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  19
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I feel like the biggest leverage I've seen is to get this kind of thing written up in the student newspaper, local press, hopefully go viral. That's sort of the nuclear option.
  – Daniel R. Collins
  Sep 8 at 17:32
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  11
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What's your goal? Is the goal to stop the rambling or is the goal to get him fired?
  – Mast
  Sep 9 at 9:30
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Also, is it a public university or private university? (makes a difference) And can we take it's somewhere in the US?
  – smci
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Just because you disagree with something does not make it obnoxious. Some of my favourite lectures were the lecturer ranting about something they were passionate about. If it's off-topic and hindering the course that's a different issue. I'd encourage you to research and challenge anything you think is false, but university is meant to be about broadening your knowledge. You can't just get someone fired or silenced because you disagree with what they say.
  – SystemParadox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 13 more comments

• 
  
  
  

  
  52
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What kind of a history course is this? Specifically, is the discussion about evolution at all relevant to the subject of the course, or is it a completely unrelated rant? The answer could depend on this. In any case, the short answer is that even professors with tenure are accountable for things they say in class, and may be disciplined for unprofessional conduct, up to and including getting fired. However, termination, would be an extremely rare and unusual consequence for the behavior you are describing. A stern talking to from the department chair sounds much more likely.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 16:35
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  19
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I feel like the biggest leverage I've seen is to get this kind of thing written up in the student newspaper, local press, hopefully go viral. That's sort of the nuclear option.
  – Daniel R. Collins
  Sep 8 at 17:32
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  11
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  What's your goal? Is the goal to stop the rambling or is the goal to get him fired?
  – Mast
  Sep 9 at 9:30
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Also, is it a public university or private university? (makes a difference) And can we take it's somewhere in the US?
  – smci
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Just because you disagree with something does not make it obnoxious. Some of my favourite lectures were the lecturer ranting about something they were passionate about. If it's off-topic and hindering the course that's a different issue. I'd encourage you to research and challenge anything you think is false, but university is meant to be about broadening your knowledge. You can't just get someone fired or silenced because you disagree with what they say.
  – SystemParadox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

52

52

What kind of a history course is this? Specifically, is the discussion about evolution at all relevant to the subject of the course, or is it a completely unrelated rant? The answer could depend on this. In any case, the short answer is that even professors with tenure are accountable for things they say in class, and may be disciplined for unprofessional conduct, up to and including getting fired. However, termination, would be an extremely rare and unusual consequence for the behavior you are describing. A stern talking to from the department chair sounds much more likely.
– Dan Romik
Sep 8 at 16:35

What kind of a history course is this? Specifically, is the discussion about evolution at all relevant to the subject of the course, or is it a completely unrelated rant? The answer could depend on this. In any case, the short answer is that even professors with tenure are accountable for things they say in class, and may be disciplined for unprofessional conduct, up to and including getting fired. However, termination, would be an extremely rare and unusual consequence for the behavior you are describing. A stern talking to from the department chair sounds much more likely.
– Dan Romik
Sep 8 at 16:35

19

19

I feel like the biggest leverage I've seen is to get this kind of thing written up in the student newspaper, local press, hopefully go viral. That's sort of the nuclear option.
– Daniel R. Collins
Sep 8 at 17:32

I feel like the biggest leverage I've seen is to get this kind of thing written up in the student newspaper, local press, hopefully go viral. That's sort of the nuclear option.
– Daniel R. Collins
Sep 8 at 17:32

11

11

What's your goal? Is the goal to stop the rambling or is the goal to get him fired?
– Mast
Sep 9 at 9:30

What's your goal? Is the goal to stop the rambling or is the goal to get him fired?
– Mast
Sep 9 at 9:30

4

4

Also, is it a public university or private university? (makes a difference) And can we take it's somewhere in the US?
– smci
2 days ago

Also, is it a public university or private university? (makes a difference) And can we take it's somewhere in the US?
– smci
2 days ago

5

5

Just because you disagree with something does not make it obnoxious. Some of my favourite lectures were the lecturer ranting about something they were passionate about. If it's off-topic and hindering the course that's a different issue. I'd encourage you to research and challenge anything you think is false, but university is meant to be about broadening your knowledge. You can't just get someone fired or silenced because you disagree with what they say.
– SystemParadox
yesterday

Just because you disagree with something does not make it obnoxious. Some of my favourite lectures were the lecturer ranting about something they were passionate about. If it's off-topic and hindering the course that's a different issue. I'd encourage you to research and challenge anything you think is false, but university is meant to be about broadening your knowledge. You can't just get someone fired or silenced because you disagree with what they say.
– SystemParadox
yesterday

 | 
show 13 more comments

4 Answers
4

active

oldest

votes

up vote
101
down vote

Having tenure doesn't mean a professor can spend large amounts of time in a course talking about off-topic things. They still have a duty to teach the subject of the course.

Have your wife talk to the department chair if she feels she isn't receiving the education that she expects from the course.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 15:22

Austin Henley

14.2k74586

• 
  
  
  

  
  7
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Being off-topic is one thing. Spreading utter hogwash is another.
  – Eric Duminil
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  35
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil yes, but unfortunately it'll be hard to give a general, rigorous definition of what's “utter hogwash” and what merely an unlucky misconception. You can't expect a professor to know about everything, so it's inevitable that they'll have some wrong beliefs – hopefully outside their field of expertise only, though. So enforcing they stay focused on their own subject is the way to go. (FTR, I think denial of evolution is utter hogwash, but focusing on single topics like this gives deniers a convenient opportunity to complain about “liberal bias / dogma”.)
  – leftaroundabout
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Evolution and prehistory (the Paleolithic period and big geography) are covered in AP World History under Key Concept 1.1. While it would not be OK to harp on these things day-in and day-out, it seems that they are not off-topic.
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil And how do you propose to define "utter hogwash" in such a way that it cannot be used to bully professors out of unpopular academic stances?
  – sgf
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @leftaroundabout I know in practice that what you've commented is true, and at the same time I think there is a "general, rigorous definition" of what is "utter hogwash", or perhaps we know what is not hogwash, and that is any finding that is the result of the use of the scientific method and the modern practice of science. That's the whole reason why those institutions of thought (if I may use such a phrase) exist - to separate the hogwash from what we should be able to agree are facts. I hope a university, at least, would share that definition of "hogwash".
  – Todd Wilcox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
48
down vote

Faculty at my university, and I would imagine at any large university in the US, are bound by the terms of a technical document with a title such as “Faculty Code of Conduct” or something similar. If you look at this document for my university, you find descriptions of certain behaviors described as “unacceptable behavior” for a faculty member. Notably:

Types of unacceptable conduct:

1. Failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction, including:

...

(b) significant intrusion of material unrelated to the course;

...

2. Discrimination, including harassment, against a student on political grounds, or
   for reasons of race, color, religion, [...], or, within the limits imposed by law or University regulations, because of age or citizenship or for other arbitrary or personal reasons.

The faculty code of conduct also contains procedures that are in place for disciplining professors who engage in unacceptable behavior. The bottom line is that tenure is not a “get out of jail free” card to engage in any sort of unprofessional behavior. In theory, a faculty member who violates the code of conduct can get fired. At the same time, termination is an extremely rare and unusual punishment, and there are other milder forms of discipline that are much more likely to happen first (or at all). Moreover, the process for getting someone fired is very long and complicated. So, to a first order approximation, it is essentially correct to say that with extremely high probability your wife’s professor won’t be fired for the things he said in class about evolution.

With that said, your wife can and should complain about her professor behaving unprofessionally in class. Her university has processes for dealing with such issues, and it is likely that a complaint can lead to the situation improving for her and other students, and to the professor suffering some consequences for his actions.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 17:08

Dan Romik

76.6k20169258

• 
  
  
  

  
  12
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I am not sure why you included the point 2.
  – quid
  Sep 8 at 18:28
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  17
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @quid just on the off-chance that it would be of interest to OP, e.g., if his wife’s professor showed signs that he wanted to discriminate against students on the basis of their religious beliefs. But I agree it is not directly related to OP’s concerns.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 18:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  By that standard my biology professor who called me out in class and called me a, "f---ing idiot for believing in God", should be terminated.
  – Will Byers
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  14
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers: Singling out a student in class to call them a "f---ing idiot" should be grounds for termination regardless of whether their underlying reason is connected to any religious belief or lack thereof; from a position of authority, it's abusive and completely unprofessional.
  – R..
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers very sorry to hear about this. Certainly that is unacceptable behavior for a professor.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

up vote
18
down vote

In general, yes, tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc. That is the point of it. But the instructor still has to teach his/her course. If this is going on in a math course, then a complaint could come about not teaching math.

But in a biology course, the person could probably make a case that they are teaching biology, even when they are actually rejecting science and its underlying principles.

The student also has academic freedom, I'll point out, so speaking out against a creationist professor should never result in any sanction. That, unfortunately, is harder to guarantee.

Another issue, of course, is whether the instructor is requiring students to adopt anti-scientific positions for any reason. You can't attack a person for their religious beliefs, of course, and under tenure you can't attack them for speaking about those beliefs, but you can require that they not try to undermine the beliefs of others.

One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them. If that isn't really possible then complaints to the dean, etc. or letters to the editor, etc. are certainly possible. But be aware that you are very unlikely to change the minds of people who choose to ignore science using any argument whatever. There is some research, in fact, that arguing with such people only deepens their belief.

From the Dean's standpoint, while he/she may not be able to fire a misbehaving teacher for what they say, there is no reason for the Dean to be required to let that person anywhere near students, or promote them, or give them raises, etc.

Finally, in some (but sadly not all) places, the other faculty can provide helpful peer-pressure against instructors who use their classroom time to proselytize rather than teach.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered Sep 8 at 15:37

Buffy

16.3k55191

• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Like paragraph 5, makes me think of the adage: “never argue with a fool, people may not notice the difference”...
  – Solar Mike
  Sep 8 at 15:40
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them." True but if you're already several weeks into a course before you find out that you need to avoid, it's usually too late to switch and all you can do is warn next year's potential tudents.
  – David Richerby
  Sep 9 at 10:10
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It might be worth noting that the question specifies that the course in question is supposed to be a history course. Neither evolution nor prehistory would typically be relevant topics for that.
  – KRyan
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KRyan, The College Board specified that Key Concept 1.1 of their AP World History course covers "big geography" and the Paleolithic period---clearly including evolution and prehistory. ( apcentral.collegeboard.org/pdf/… )
  – elliot svensson
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc." but does tenure protect against being fired for academic misconduct (or what the correct term would be for teaching lies to students) .
  – Bent
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 11 more comments

up vote
6
down vote

This is a difficult position to be in, but I'm alarmed that most of the other posts here seem to be discussing how to get a tenured professor fired or negatively impacted.

You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor. If your efforts seem focused on harming the career/public opinion of a tenured professor, the dean should, and hopefully will, meet those efforts to the defense of the instructor, which could result in very negative consequences to you and/or your wife.

Regardless of what you hope to achieve, ask the dean what your options are. If a professor is acting like this, it is extremely likely that the dean knows about it, and has heard complaints from other students. Most likely, your wife would be allowed to drop the course or transfer to another section with a different instructor without significant incident. If other students are having similar problems, the onus is on them to act similarly.

If you are really dead-set on trying to get the instructor reprimanded or fired, then take a video of the class, and be willing to accept it if the dean tells you that they can't do anything. There could be a lot of politics happening that you have no awareness of.

I would avoid the following:
Making a scene during class, arguing with the instructor in front of the class (do not pull a "God is Dead" moment in reverse), or actively attempting to get the instructor fired.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered yesterday

kashim

83915

New contributor

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I disagree that the discussion of whether a tenured professor can be fired (which is what OP asked about) is motivated by wanting to harm anyone’s career. To me OP and his wife just sound concerned about the wife and her fellow students getting a bad education. As a general rule, if someone cannot do the job of a professor competently (and I’m far from being able to assess whether that‘s the case here), that person should be fired, not as punishment, but simply to protect the students’ right to get the quality education they are paying for.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Re "You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor": Not harming, but simply removing. Creationism is "not even wrong" but simply unscientific; as others remarked aleready it's a delusion which is immune against scientific dialogue. People harboring delusions in one field are likely harboring them in other fields as well and are generally unfit to teach.
  – Peter A. Schneider
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider, the OP has not mentioned Creationism but is in fact merely witnessing a skeptical stance toward a few common claims. "Evolution is proven" is not maintained by evolution-folks: evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/teach/68pitfalls.php#1e ... "Humans are apes" is only applicable within science ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape ) ... Birds are dinosaurs, so what's the matter with "people lived with dinosaurs"? ... and honestly, how do you know that the earth is 4 billion years old?
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider I wholeheartedly agree with you that this person is likely unfit to teach, but "removing" a professor is harmful to that professor. The desire to protect the other students is admirable, but it is not the student's job, it is the job of the other faculty. The duty of the student is to raise the objection, not to decide the fate of the instructor or push for any specific course of action.
  – kashim
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @DanRomik Your comment in parenthesis "and I'm far from being able to assess whether that's the case here" is exactly my point. No one on this forum knows enough of the circumstances behind this case to suggest that action be taken against the professor, let alone what that action might be. Specifically, the poster asked "If we were to complain, could anything be done?" The end answer is "Many things can be done, but only your dean knows enough to know what they are."
  – kashim
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

Your Answer

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "415"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: false,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);

Chiki is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.

 

draft saved

draft discarded

Sign up or log in

StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Post as a guest

Name Email

StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2facademia.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f116605%2fdoes-tenure-protection-extend-to-professors-saying-that-evolution-is-false-in-cl%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest

Name Email

4 Answers
4

active

oldest

votes

4 Answers
4

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

up vote
101
down vote

Having tenure doesn't mean a professor can spend large amounts of time in a course talking about off-topic things. They still have a duty to teach the subject of the course.

Have your wife talk to the department chair if she feels she isn't receiving the education that she expects from the course.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 15:22

Austin Henley

14.2k74586

• 
  
  
  

  
  7
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Being off-topic is one thing. Spreading utter hogwash is another.
  – Eric Duminil
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  35
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil yes, but unfortunately it'll be hard to give a general, rigorous definition of what's “utter hogwash” and what merely an unlucky misconception. You can't expect a professor to know about everything, so it's inevitable that they'll have some wrong beliefs – hopefully outside their field of expertise only, though. So enforcing they stay focused on their own subject is the way to go. (FTR, I think denial of evolution is utter hogwash, but focusing on single topics like this gives deniers a convenient opportunity to complain about “liberal bias / dogma”.)
  – leftaroundabout
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Evolution and prehistory (the Paleolithic period and big geography) are covered in AP World History under Key Concept 1.1. While it would not be OK to harp on these things day-in and day-out, it seems that they are not off-topic.
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil And how do you propose to define "utter hogwash" in such a way that it cannot be used to bully professors out of unpopular academic stances?
  – sgf
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @leftaroundabout I know in practice that what you've commented is true, and at the same time I think there is a "general, rigorous definition" of what is "utter hogwash", or perhaps we know what is not hogwash, and that is any finding that is the result of the use of the scientific method and the modern practice of science. That's the whole reason why those institutions of thought (if I may use such a phrase) exist - to separate the hogwash from what we should be able to agree are facts. I hope a university, at least, would share that definition of "hogwash".
  – Todd Wilcox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
101
down vote

Having tenure doesn't mean a professor can spend large amounts of time in a course talking about off-topic things. They still have a duty to teach the subject of the course.

Have your wife talk to the department chair if she feels she isn't receiving the education that she expects from the course.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 15:22

Austin Henley

14.2k74586

• 
  
  
  

  
  7
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Being off-topic is one thing. Spreading utter hogwash is another.
  – Eric Duminil
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  35
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil yes, but unfortunately it'll be hard to give a general, rigorous definition of what's “utter hogwash” and what merely an unlucky misconception. You can't expect a professor to know about everything, so it's inevitable that they'll have some wrong beliefs – hopefully outside their field of expertise only, though. So enforcing they stay focused on their own subject is the way to go. (FTR, I think denial of evolution is utter hogwash, but focusing on single topics like this gives deniers a convenient opportunity to complain about “liberal bias / dogma”.)
  – leftaroundabout
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Evolution and prehistory (the Paleolithic period and big geography) are covered in AP World History under Key Concept 1.1. While it would not be OK to harp on these things day-in and day-out, it seems that they are not off-topic.
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil And how do you propose to define "utter hogwash" in such a way that it cannot be used to bully professors out of unpopular academic stances?
  – sgf
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @leftaroundabout I know in practice that what you've commented is true, and at the same time I think there is a "general, rigorous definition" of what is "utter hogwash", or perhaps we know what is not hogwash, and that is any finding that is the result of the use of the scientific method and the modern practice of science. That's the whole reason why those institutions of thought (if I may use such a phrase) exist - to separate the hogwash from what we should be able to agree are facts. I hope a university, at least, would share that definition of "hogwash".
  – Todd Wilcox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

up vote
101
down vote

up vote
101
down vote

Having tenure doesn't mean a professor can spend large amounts of time in a course talking about off-topic things. They still have a duty to teach the subject of the course.

Have your wife talk to the department chair if she feels she isn't receiving the education that she expects from the course.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 15:22

Austin Henley

14.2k74586

Having tenure doesn't mean a professor can spend large amounts of time in a course talking about off-topic things. They still have a duty to teach the subject of the course.

Have your wife talk to the department chair if she feels she isn't receiving the education that she expects from the course.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 15:22

Austin Henley

14.2k74586

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 15:22

Austin Henley

14.2k74586

answered Sep 8 at 15:22

Austin Henley

14.2k74586

answered Sep 8 at 15:22

Austin Henley

14.2k74586

14.2k74586

• 
  
  
  

  
  7
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Being off-topic is one thing. Spreading utter hogwash is another.
  – Eric Duminil
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  35
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil yes, but unfortunately it'll be hard to give a general, rigorous definition of what's “utter hogwash” and what merely an unlucky misconception. You can't expect a professor to know about everything, so it's inevitable that they'll have some wrong beliefs – hopefully outside their field of expertise only, though. So enforcing they stay focused on their own subject is the way to go. (FTR, I think denial of evolution is utter hogwash, but focusing on single topics like this gives deniers a convenient opportunity to complain about “liberal bias / dogma”.)
  – leftaroundabout
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Evolution and prehistory (the Paleolithic period and big geography) are covered in AP World History under Key Concept 1.1. While it would not be OK to harp on these things day-in and day-out, it seems that they are not off-topic.
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil And how do you propose to define "utter hogwash" in such a way that it cannot be used to bully professors out of unpopular academic stances?
  – sgf
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @leftaroundabout I know in practice that what you've commented is true, and at the same time I think there is a "general, rigorous definition" of what is "utter hogwash", or perhaps we know what is not hogwash, and that is any finding that is the result of the use of the scientific method and the modern practice of science. That's the whole reason why those institutions of thought (if I may use such a phrase) exist - to separate the hogwash from what we should be able to agree are facts. I hope a university, at least, would share that definition of "hogwash".
  – Todd Wilcox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  7
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Being off-topic is one thing. Spreading utter hogwash is another.
  – Eric Duminil
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  35
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil yes, but unfortunately it'll be hard to give a general, rigorous definition of what's “utter hogwash” and what merely an unlucky misconception. You can't expect a professor to know about everything, so it's inevitable that they'll have some wrong beliefs – hopefully outside their field of expertise only, though. So enforcing they stay focused on their own subject is the way to go. (FTR, I think denial of evolution is utter hogwash, but focusing on single topics like this gives deniers a convenient opportunity to complain about “liberal bias / dogma”.)
  – leftaroundabout
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Evolution and prehistory (the Paleolithic period and big geography) are covered in AP World History under Key Concept 1.1. While it would not be OK to harp on these things day-in and day-out, it seems that they are not off-topic.
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @EricDuminil And how do you propose to define "utter hogwash" in such a way that it cannot be used to bully professors out of unpopular academic stances?
  – sgf
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @leftaroundabout I know in practice that what you've commented is true, and at the same time I think there is a "general, rigorous definition" of what is "utter hogwash", or perhaps we know what is not hogwash, and that is any finding that is the result of the use of the scientific method and the modern practice of science. That's the whole reason why those institutions of thought (if I may use such a phrase) exist - to separate the hogwash from what we should be able to agree are facts. I hope a university, at least, would share that definition of "hogwash".
  – Todd Wilcox
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

7

7

Being off-topic is one thing. Spreading utter hogwash is another.
– Eric Duminil
2 days ago

Being off-topic is one thing. Spreading utter hogwash is another.
– Eric Duminil
2 days ago

35

35

@EricDuminil yes, but unfortunately it'll be hard to give a general, rigorous definition of what's “utter hogwash” and what merely an unlucky misconception. You can't expect a professor to know about everything, so it's inevitable that they'll have some wrong beliefs – hopefully outside their field of expertise only, though. So enforcing they stay focused on their own subject is the way to go. (FTR, I think denial of evolution is utter hogwash, but focusing on single topics like this gives deniers a convenient opportunity to complain about “liberal bias / dogma”.)
– leftaroundabout
2 days ago

@EricDuminil yes, but unfortunately it'll be hard to give a general, rigorous definition of what's “utter hogwash” and what merely an unlucky misconception. You can't expect a professor to know about everything, so it's inevitable that they'll have some wrong beliefs – hopefully outside their field of expertise only, though. So enforcing they stay focused on their own subject is the way to go. (FTR, I think denial of evolution is utter hogwash, but focusing on single topics like this gives deniers a convenient opportunity to complain about “liberal bias / dogma”.)
– leftaroundabout
2 days ago

3

3

Evolution and prehistory (the Paleolithic period and big geography) are covered in AP World History under Key Concept 1.1. While it would not be OK to harp on these things day-in and day-out, it seems that they are not off-topic.
– elliot svensson
yesterday

Evolution and prehistory (the Paleolithic period and big geography) are covered in AP World History under Key Concept 1.1. While it would not be OK to harp on these things day-in and day-out, it seems that they are not off-topic.
– elliot svensson
yesterday

1

1

@EricDuminil And how do you propose to define "utter hogwash" in such a way that it cannot be used to bully professors out of unpopular academic stances?
– sgf
yesterday

@EricDuminil And how do you propose to define "utter hogwash" in such a way that it cannot be used to bully professors out of unpopular academic stances?
– sgf
yesterday

@leftaroundabout I know in practice that what you've commented is true, and at the same time I think there is a "general, rigorous definition" of what is "utter hogwash", or perhaps we know what is not hogwash, and that is any finding that is the result of the use of the scientific method and the modern practice of science. That's the whole reason why those institutions of thought (if I may use such a phrase) exist - to separate the hogwash from what we should be able to agree are facts. I hope a university, at least, would share that definition of "hogwash".
– Todd Wilcox
yesterday

@leftaroundabout I know in practice that what you've commented is true, and at the same time I think there is a "general, rigorous definition" of what is "utter hogwash", or perhaps we know what is not hogwash, and that is any finding that is the result of the use of the scientific method and the modern practice of science. That's the whole reason why those institutions of thought (if I may use such a phrase) exist - to separate the hogwash from what we should be able to agree are facts. I hope a university, at least, would share that definition of "hogwash".
– Todd Wilcox
yesterday

add a comment | 

up vote
48
down vote

Faculty at my university, and I would imagine at any large university in the US, are bound by the terms of a technical document with a title such as “Faculty Code of Conduct” or something similar. If you look at this document for my university, you find descriptions of certain behaviors described as “unacceptable behavior” for a faculty member. Notably:

Types of unacceptable conduct:

1. Failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction, including:

...

(b) significant intrusion of material unrelated to the course;

...

2. Discrimination, including harassment, against a student on political grounds, or
   for reasons of race, color, religion, [...], or, within the limits imposed by law or University regulations, because of age or citizenship or for other arbitrary or personal reasons.

The faculty code of conduct also contains procedures that are in place for disciplining professors who engage in unacceptable behavior. The bottom line is that tenure is not a “get out of jail free” card to engage in any sort of unprofessional behavior. In theory, a faculty member who violates the code of conduct can get fired. At the same time, termination is an extremely rare and unusual punishment, and there are other milder forms of discipline that are much more likely to happen first (or at all). Moreover, the process for getting someone fired is very long and complicated. So, to a first order approximation, it is essentially correct to say that with extremely high probability your wife’s professor won’t be fired for the things he said in class about evolution.

With that said, your wife can and should complain about her professor behaving unprofessionally in class. Her university has processes for dealing with such issues, and it is likely that a complaint can lead to the situation improving for her and other students, and to the professor suffering some consequences for his actions.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 17:08

Dan Romik

76.6k20169258

• 
  
  
  

  
  12
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I am not sure why you included the point 2.
  – quid
  Sep 8 at 18:28
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  17
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @quid just on the off-chance that it would be of interest to OP, e.g., if his wife’s professor showed signs that he wanted to discriminate against students on the basis of their religious beliefs. But I agree it is not directly related to OP’s concerns.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 18:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  By that standard my biology professor who called me out in class and called me a, "f---ing idiot for believing in God", should be terminated.
  – Will Byers
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  14
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers: Singling out a student in class to call them a "f---ing idiot" should be grounds for termination regardless of whether their underlying reason is connected to any religious belief or lack thereof; from a position of authority, it's abusive and completely unprofessional.
  – R..
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers very sorry to hear about this. Certainly that is unacceptable behavior for a professor.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

up vote
48
down vote

Faculty at my university, and I would imagine at any large university in the US, are bound by the terms of a technical document with a title such as “Faculty Code of Conduct” or something similar. If you look at this document for my university, you find descriptions of certain behaviors described as “unacceptable behavior” for a faculty member. Notably:

Types of unacceptable conduct:

1. Failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction, including:

...

(b) significant intrusion of material unrelated to the course;

...

2. Discrimination, including harassment, against a student on political grounds, or
   for reasons of race, color, religion, [...], or, within the limits imposed by law or University regulations, because of age or citizenship or for other arbitrary or personal reasons.

The faculty code of conduct also contains procedures that are in place for disciplining professors who engage in unacceptable behavior. The bottom line is that tenure is not a “get out of jail free” card to engage in any sort of unprofessional behavior. In theory, a faculty member who violates the code of conduct can get fired. At the same time, termination is an extremely rare and unusual punishment, and there are other milder forms of discipline that are much more likely to happen first (or at all). Moreover, the process for getting someone fired is very long and complicated. So, to a first order approximation, it is essentially correct to say that with extremely high probability your wife’s professor won’t be fired for the things he said in class about evolution.

With that said, your wife can and should complain about her professor behaving unprofessionally in class. Her university has processes for dealing with such issues, and it is likely that a complaint can lead to the situation improving for her and other students, and to the professor suffering some consequences for his actions.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 17:08

Dan Romik

76.6k20169258

• 
  
  
  

  
  12
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I am not sure why you included the point 2.
  – quid
  Sep 8 at 18:28
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  17
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @quid just on the off-chance that it would be of interest to OP, e.g., if his wife’s professor showed signs that he wanted to discriminate against students on the basis of their religious beliefs. But I agree it is not directly related to OP’s concerns.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 18:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  By that standard my biology professor who called me out in class and called me a, "f---ing idiot for believing in God", should be terminated.
  – Will Byers
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  14
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers: Singling out a student in class to call them a "f---ing idiot" should be grounds for termination regardless of whether their underlying reason is connected to any religious belief or lack thereof; from a position of authority, it's abusive and completely unprofessional.
  – R..
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers very sorry to hear about this. Certainly that is unacceptable behavior for a professor.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

up vote
48
down vote

up vote
48
down vote

Faculty at my university, and I would imagine at any large university in the US, are bound by the terms of a technical document with a title such as “Faculty Code of Conduct” or something similar. If you look at this document for my university, you find descriptions of certain behaviors described as “unacceptable behavior” for a faculty member. Notably:

Types of unacceptable conduct:

1. Failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction, including:

...

(b) significant intrusion of material unrelated to the course;

...

2. Discrimination, including harassment, against a student on political grounds, or
   for reasons of race, color, religion, [...], or, within the limits imposed by law or University regulations, because of age or citizenship or for other arbitrary or personal reasons.

The faculty code of conduct also contains procedures that are in place for disciplining professors who engage in unacceptable behavior. The bottom line is that tenure is not a “get out of jail free” card to engage in any sort of unprofessional behavior. In theory, a faculty member who violates the code of conduct can get fired. At the same time, termination is an extremely rare and unusual punishment, and there are other milder forms of discipline that are much more likely to happen first (or at all). Moreover, the process for getting someone fired is very long and complicated. So, to a first order approximation, it is essentially correct to say that with extremely high probability your wife’s professor won’t be fired for the things he said in class about evolution.

With that said, your wife can and should complain about her professor behaving unprofessionally in class. Her university has processes for dealing with such issues, and it is likely that a complaint can lead to the situation improving for her and other students, and to the professor suffering some consequences for his actions.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 17:08

Dan Romik

76.6k20169258

Faculty at my university, and I would imagine at any large university in the US, are bound by the terms of a technical document with a title such as “Faculty Code of Conduct” or something similar. If you look at this document for my university, you find descriptions of certain behaviors described as “unacceptable behavior” for a faculty member. Notably:

Types of unacceptable conduct:

1. Failure to meet the responsibilities of instruction, including:

...

(b) significant intrusion of material unrelated to the course;

...

2. Discrimination, including harassment, against a student on political grounds, or
   for reasons of race, color, religion, [...], or, within the limits imposed by law or University regulations, because of age or citizenship or for other arbitrary or personal reasons.

The faculty code of conduct also contains procedures that are in place for disciplining professors who engage in unacceptable behavior. The bottom line is that tenure is not a “get out of jail free” card to engage in any sort of unprofessional behavior. In theory, a faculty member who violates the code of conduct can get fired. At the same time, termination is an extremely rare and unusual punishment, and there are other milder forms of discipline that are much more likely to happen first (or at all). Moreover, the process for getting someone fired is very long and complicated. So, to a first order approximation, it is essentially correct to say that with extremely high probability your wife’s professor won’t be fired for the things he said in class about evolution.

With that said, your wife can and should complain about her professor behaving unprofessionally in class. Her university has processes for dealing with such issues, and it is likely that a complaint can lead to the situation improving for her and other students, and to the professor suffering some consequences for his actions.

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 17:08

Dan Romik

76.6k20169258

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

answered Sep 8 at 17:08

Dan Romik

76.6k20169258

answered Sep 8 at 17:08

Dan Romik

76.6k20169258

answered Sep 8 at 17:08

Dan Romik

76.6k20169258

76.6k20169258

• 
  
  
  

  
  12
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I am not sure why you included the point 2.
  – quid
  Sep 8 at 18:28
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  17
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @quid just on the off-chance that it would be of interest to OP, e.g., if his wife’s professor showed signs that he wanted to discriminate against students on the basis of their religious beliefs. But I agree it is not directly related to OP’s concerns.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 18:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  By that standard my biology professor who called me out in class and called me a, "f---ing idiot for believing in God", should be terminated.
  – Will Byers
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  14
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers: Singling out a student in class to call them a "f---ing idiot" should be grounds for termination regardless of whether their underlying reason is connected to any religious belief or lack thereof; from a position of authority, it's abusive and completely unprofessional.
  – R..
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers very sorry to hear about this. Certainly that is unacceptable behavior for a professor.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 2 more comments

• 
  
  
  

  
  12
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I am not sure why you included the point 2.
  – quid
  Sep 8 at 18:28
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  17
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @quid just on the off-chance that it would be of interest to OP, e.g., if his wife’s professor showed signs that he wanted to discriminate against students on the basis of their religious beliefs. But I agree it is not directly related to OP’s concerns.
  – Dan Romik
  Sep 8 at 18:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  5
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  By that standard my biology professor who called me out in class and called me a, "f---ing idiot for believing in God", should be terminated.
  – Will Byers
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  14
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers: Singling out a student in class to call them a "f---ing idiot" should be grounds for termination regardless of whether their underlying reason is connected to any religious belief or lack thereof; from a position of authority, it's abusive and completely unprofessional.
  – R..
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @WillByers very sorry to hear about this. Certainly that is unacceptable behavior for a professor.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

12

12

I am not sure why you included the point 2.
– quid
Sep 8 at 18:28

I am not sure why you included the point 2.
– quid
Sep 8 at 18:28

17

17

@quid just on the off-chance that it would be of interest to OP, e.g., if his wife’s professor showed signs that he wanted to discriminate against students on the basis of their religious beliefs. But I agree it is not directly related to OP’s concerns.
– Dan Romik
Sep 8 at 18:46

@quid just on the off-chance that it would be of interest to OP, e.g., if his wife’s professor showed signs that he wanted to discriminate against students on the basis of their religious beliefs. But I agree it is not directly related to OP’s concerns.
– Dan Romik
Sep 8 at 18:46

5

5

By that standard my biology professor who called me out in class and called me a, "f---ing idiot for believing in God", should be terminated.
– Will Byers
yesterday

By that standard my biology professor who called me out in class and called me a, "f---ing idiot for believing in God", should be terminated.
– Will Byers
yesterday

14

14

@WillByers: Singling out a student in class to call them a "f---ing idiot" should be grounds for termination regardless of whether their underlying reason is connected to any religious belief or lack thereof; from a position of authority, it's abusive and completely unprofessional.
– R..
yesterday

@WillByers: Singling out a student in class to call them a "f---ing idiot" should be grounds for termination regardless of whether their underlying reason is connected to any religious belief or lack thereof; from a position of authority, it's abusive and completely unprofessional.
– R..
yesterday

2

2

@WillByers very sorry to hear about this. Certainly that is unacceptable behavior for a professor.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

@WillByers very sorry to hear about this. Certainly that is unacceptable behavior for a professor.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

 | 
show 2 more comments

up vote
18
down vote

In general, yes, tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc. That is the point of it. But the instructor still has to teach his/her course. If this is going on in a math course, then a complaint could come about not teaching math.

But in a biology course, the person could probably make a case that they are teaching biology, even when they are actually rejecting science and its underlying principles.

The student also has academic freedom, I'll point out, so speaking out against a creationist professor should never result in any sanction. That, unfortunately, is harder to guarantee.

Another issue, of course, is whether the instructor is requiring students to adopt anti-scientific positions for any reason. You can't attack a person for their religious beliefs, of course, and under tenure you can't attack them for speaking about those beliefs, but you can require that they not try to undermine the beliefs of others.

One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them. If that isn't really possible then complaints to the dean, etc. or letters to the editor, etc. are certainly possible. But be aware that you are very unlikely to change the minds of people who choose to ignore science using any argument whatever. There is some research, in fact, that arguing with such people only deepens their belief.

From the Dean's standpoint, while he/she may not be able to fire a misbehaving teacher for what they say, there is no reason for the Dean to be required to let that person anywhere near students, or promote them, or give them raises, etc.

Finally, in some (but sadly not all) places, the other faculty can provide helpful peer-pressure against instructors who use their classroom time to proselytize rather than teach.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered Sep 8 at 15:37

Buffy

16.3k55191

• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Like paragraph 5, makes me think of the adage: “never argue with a fool, people may not notice the difference”...
  – Solar Mike
  Sep 8 at 15:40
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them." True but if you're already several weeks into a course before you find out that you need to avoid, it's usually too late to switch and all you can do is warn next year's potential tudents.
  – David Richerby
  Sep 9 at 10:10
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It might be worth noting that the question specifies that the course in question is supposed to be a history course. Neither evolution nor prehistory would typically be relevant topics for that.
  – KRyan
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KRyan, The College Board specified that Key Concept 1.1 of their AP World History course covers "big geography" and the Paleolithic period---clearly including evolution and prehistory. ( apcentral.collegeboard.org/pdf/… )
  – elliot svensson
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc." but does tenure protect against being fired for academic misconduct (or what the correct term would be for teaching lies to students) .
  – Bent
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 11 more comments

up vote
18
down vote

In general, yes, tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc. That is the point of it. But the instructor still has to teach his/her course. If this is going on in a math course, then a complaint could come about not teaching math.

But in a biology course, the person could probably make a case that they are teaching biology, even when they are actually rejecting science and its underlying principles.

The student also has academic freedom, I'll point out, so speaking out against a creationist professor should never result in any sanction. That, unfortunately, is harder to guarantee.

Another issue, of course, is whether the instructor is requiring students to adopt anti-scientific positions for any reason. You can't attack a person for their religious beliefs, of course, and under tenure you can't attack them for speaking about those beliefs, but you can require that they not try to undermine the beliefs of others.

One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them. If that isn't really possible then complaints to the dean, etc. or letters to the editor, etc. are certainly possible. But be aware that you are very unlikely to change the minds of people who choose to ignore science using any argument whatever. There is some research, in fact, that arguing with such people only deepens their belief.

From the Dean's standpoint, while he/she may not be able to fire a misbehaving teacher for what they say, there is no reason for the Dean to be required to let that person anywhere near students, or promote them, or give them raises, etc.

Finally, in some (but sadly not all) places, the other faculty can provide helpful peer-pressure against instructors who use their classroom time to proselytize rather than teach.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered Sep 8 at 15:37

Buffy

16.3k55191

• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Like paragraph 5, makes me think of the adage: “never argue with a fool, people may not notice the difference”...
  – Solar Mike
  Sep 8 at 15:40
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them." True but if you're already several weeks into a course before you find out that you need to avoid, it's usually too late to switch and all you can do is warn next year's potential tudents.
  – David Richerby
  Sep 9 at 10:10
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It might be worth noting that the question specifies that the course in question is supposed to be a history course. Neither evolution nor prehistory would typically be relevant topics for that.
  – KRyan
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KRyan, The College Board specified that Key Concept 1.1 of their AP World History course covers "big geography" and the Paleolithic period---clearly including evolution and prehistory. ( apcentral.collegeboard.org/pdf/… )
  – elliot svensson
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc." but does tenure protect against being fired for academic misconduct (or what the correct term would be for teaching lies to students) .
  – Bent
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 11 more comments

up vote
18
down vote

up vote
18
down vote

In general, yes, tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc. That is the point of it. But the instructor still has to teach his/her course. If this is going on in a math course, then a complaint could come about not teaching math.

But in a biology course, the person could probably make a case that they are teaching biology, even when they are actually rejecting science and its underlying principles.

The student also has academic freedom, I'll point out, so speaking out against a creationist professor should never result in any sanction. That, unfortunately, is harder to guarantee.

Another issue, of course, is whether the instructor is requiring students to adopt anti-scientific positions for any reason. You can't attack a person for their religious beliefs, of course, and under tenure you can't attack them for speaking about those beliefs, but you can require that they not try to undermine the beliefs of others.

One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them. If that isn't really possible then complaints to the dean, etc. or letters to the editor, etc. are certainly possible. But be aware that you are very unlikely to change the minds of people who choose to ignore science using any argument whatever. There is some research, in fact, that arguing with such people only deepens their belief.

From the Dean's standpoint, while he/she may not be able to fire a misbehaving teacher for what they say, there is no reason for the Dean to be required to let that person anywhere near students, or promote them, or give them raises, etc.

Finally, in some (but sadly not all) places, the other faculty can provide helpful peer-pressure against instructors who use their classroom time to proselytize rather than teach.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered Sep 8 at 15:37

Buffy

16.3k55191

In general, yes, tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc. That is the point of it. But the instructor still has to teach his/her course. If this is going on in a math course, then a complaint could come about not teaching math.

But in a biology course, the person could probably make a case that they are teaching biology, even when they are actually rejecting science and its underlying principles.

The student also has academic freedom, I'll point out, so speaking out against a creationist professor should never result in any sanction. That, unfortunately, is harder to guarantee.

Another issue, of course, is whether the instructor is requiring students to adopt anti-scientific positions for any reason. You can't attack a person for their religious beliefs, of course, and under tenure you can't attack them for speaking about those beliefs, but you can require that they not try to undermine the beliefs of others.

One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them. If that isn't really possible then complaints to the dean, etc. or letters to the editor, etc. are certainly possible. But be aware that you are very unlikely to change the minds of people who choose to ignore science using any argument whatever. There is some research, in fact, that arguing with such people only deepens their belief.

From the Dean's standpoint, while he/she may not be able to fire a misbehaving teacher for what they say, there is no reason for the Dean to be required to let that person anywhere near students, or promote them, or give them raises, etc.

Finally, in some (but sadly not all) places, the other faculty can provide helpful peer-pressure against instructors who use their classroom time to proselytize rather than teach.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered Sep 8 at 15:37

Buffy

16.3k55191

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

1173

answered Sep 8 at 15:37

Buffy

16.3k55191

answered Sep 8 at 15:37

Buffy

16.3k55191

answered Sep 8 at 15:37

Buffy

16.3k55191

16.3k55191

• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Like paragraph 5, makes me think of the adage: “never argue with a fool, people may not notice the difference”...
  – Solar Mike
  Sep 8 at 15:40
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them." True but if you're already several weeks into a course before you find out that you need to avoid, it's usually too late to switch and all you can do is warn next year's potential tudents.
  – David Richerby
  Sep 9 at 10:10
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It might be worth noting that the question specifies that the course in question is supposed to be a history course. Neither evolution nor prehistory would typically be relevant topics for that.
  – KRyan
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KRyan, The College Board specified that Key Concept 1.1 of their AP World History course covers "big geography" and the Paleolithic period---clearly including evolution and prehistory. ( apcentral.collegeboard.org/pdf/… )
  – elliot svensson
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc." but does tenure protect against being fired for academic misconduct (or what the correct term would be for teaching lies to students) .
  – Bent
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 11 more comments

• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Like paragraph 5, makes me think of the adage: “never argue with a fool, people may not notice the difference”...
  – Solar Mike
  Sep 8 at 15:40
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  6
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them." True but if you're already several weeks into a course before you find out that you need to avoid, it's usually too late to switch and all you can do is warn next year's potential tudents.
  – David Richerby
  Sep 9 at 10:10
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  It might be worth noting that the question specifies that the course in question is supposed to be a history course. Neither evolution nor prehistory would typically be relevant topics for that.
  – KRyan
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @KRyan, The College Board specified that Key Concept 1.1 of their AP World History course covers "big geography" and the Paleolithic period---clearly including evolution and prehistory. ( apcentral.collegeboard.org/pdf/… )
  – elliot svensson
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  "tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc." but does tenure protect against being fired for academic misconduct (or what the correct term would be for teaching lies to students) .
  – Bent
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

6

6

Like paragraph 5, makes me think of the adage: “never argue with a fool, people may not notice the difference”...
– Solar Mike
Sep 8 at 15:40

Like paragraph 5, makes me think of the adage: “never argue with a fool, people may not notice the difference”...
– Solar Mike
Sep 8 at 15:40

6

6

"One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them." True but if you're already several weeks into a course before you find out that you need to avoid, it's usually too late to switch and all you can do is warn next year's potential tudents.
– David Richerby
Sep 9 at 10:10

"One effective way to counter ineffective teachers is to avoid them." True but if you're already several weeks into a course before you find out that you need to avoid, it's usually too late to switch and all you can do is warn next year's potential tudents.
– David Richerby
Sep 9 at 10:10

1

1

It might be worth noting that the question specifies that the course in question is supposed to be a history course. Neither evolution nor prehistory would typically be relevant topics for that.
– KRyan
2 days ago

It might be worth noting that the question specifies that the course in question is supposed to be a history course. Neither evolution nor prehistory would typically be relevant topics for that.
– KRyan
2 days ago

@KRyan, The College Board specified that Key Concept 1.1 of their AP World History course covers "big geography" and the Paleolithic period---clearly including evolution and prehistory. ( apcentral.collegeboard.org/pdf/… )
– elliot svensson
2 days ago

@KRyan, The College Board specified that Key Concept 1.1 of their AP World History course covers "big geography" and the Paleolithic period---clearly including evolution and prehistory. ( apcentral.collegeboard.org/pdf/… )
– elliot svensson
2 days ago

2

2

"tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc." but does tenure protect against being fired for academic misconduct (or what the correct term would be for teaching lies to students) .
– Bent
yesterday

"tenure protects you from retaliation for anything you say, write, research, etc." but does tenure protect against being fired for academic misconduct (or what the correct term would be for teaching lies to students) .
– Bent
yesterday

 | 
show 11 more comments

up vote
6
down vote

This is a difficult position to be in, but I'm alarmed that most of the other posts here seem to be discussing how to get a tenured professor fired or negatively impacted.

You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor. If your efforts seem focused on harming the career/public opinion of a tenured professor, the dean should, and hopefully will, meet those efforts to the defense of the instructor, which could result in very negative consequences to you and/or your wife.

Regardless of what you hope to achieve, ask the dean what your options are. If a professor is acting like this, it is extremely likely that the dean knows about it, and has heard complaints from other students. Most likely, your wife would be allowed to drop the course or transfer to another section with a different instructor without significant incident. If other students are having similar problems, the onus is on them to act similarly.

If you are really dead-set on trying to get the instructor reprimanded or fired, then take a video of the class, and be willing to accept it if the dean tells you that they can't do anything. There could be a lot of politics happening that you have no awareness of.

I would avoid the following:
Making a scene during class, arguing with the instructor in front of the class (do not pull a "God is Dead" moment in reverse), or actively attempting to get the instructor fired.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered yesterday

kashim

83915

New contributor

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I disagree that the discussion of whether a tenured professor can be fired (which is what OP asked about) is motivated by wanting to harm anyone’s career. To me OP and his wife just sound concerned about the wife and her fellow students getting a bad education. As a general rule, if someone cannot do the job of a professor competently (and I’m far from being able to assess whether that‘s the case here), that person should be fired, not as punishment, but simply to protect the students’ right to get the quality education they are paying for.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Re "You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor": Not harming, but simply removing. Creationism is "not even wrong" but simply unscientific; as others remarked aleready it's a delusion which is immune against scientific dialogue. People harboring delusions in one field are likely harboring them in other fields as well and are generally unfit to teach.
  – Peter A. Schneider
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider, the OP has not mentioned Creationism but is in fact merely witnessing a skeptical stance toward a few common claims. "Evolution is proven" is not maintained by evolution-folks: evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/teach/68pitfalls.php#1e ... "Humans are apes" is only applicable within science ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape ) ... Birds are dinosaurs, so what's the matter with "people lived with dinosaurs"? ... and honestly, how do you know that the earth is 4 billion years old?
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider I wholeheartedly agree with you that this person is likely unfit to teach, but "removing" a professor is harmful to that professor. The desire to protect the other students is admirable, but it is not the student's job, it is the job of the other faculty. The duty of the student is to raise the objection, not to decide the fate of the instructor or push for any specific course of action.
  – kashim
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @DanRomik Your comment in parenthesis "and I'm far from being able to assess whether that's the case here" is exactly my point. No one on this forum knows enough of the circumstances behind this case to suggest that action be taken against the professor, let alone what that action might be. Specifically, the poster asked "If we were to complain, could anything be done?" The end answer is "Many things can be done, but only your dean knows enough to know what they are."
  – kashim
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

up vote
6
down vote

This is a difficult position to be in, but I'm alarmed that most of the other posts here seem to be discussing how to get a tenured professor fired or negatively impacted.

You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor. If your efforts seem focused on harming the career/public opinion of a tenured professor, the dean should, and hopefully will, meet those efforts to the defense of the instructor, which could result in very negative consequences to you and/or your wife.

Regardless of what you hope to achieve, ask the dean what your options are. If a professor is acting like this, it is extremely likely that the dean knows about it, and has heard complaints from other students. Most likely, your wife would be allowed to drop the course or transfer to another section with a different instructor without significant incident. If other students are having similar problems, the onus is on them to act similarly.

If you are really dead-set on trying to get the instructor reprimanded or fired, then take a video of the class, and be willing to accept it if the dean tells you that they can't do anything. There could be a lot of politics happening that you have no awareness of.

I would avoid the following:
Making a scene during class, arguing with the instructor in front of the class (do not pull a "God is Dead" moment in reverse), or actively attempting to get the instructor fired.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered yesterday

kashim

83915

New contributor

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I disagree that the discussion of whether a tenured professor can be fired (which is what OP asked about) is motivated by wanting to harm anyone’s career. To me OP and his wife just sound concerned about the wife and her fellow students getting a bad education. As a general rule, if someone cannot do the job of a professor competently (and I’m far from being able to assess whether that‘s the case here), that person should be fired, not as punishment, but simply to protect the students’ right to get the quality education they are paying for.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Re "You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor": Not harming, but simply removing. Creationism is "not even wrong" but simply unscientific; as others remarked aleready it's a delusion which is immune against scientific dialogue. People harboring delusions in one field are likely harboring them in other fields as well and are generally unfit to teach.
  – Peter A. Schneider
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider, the OP has not mentioned Creationism but is in fact merely witnessing a skeptical stance toward a few common claims. "Evolution is proven" is not maintained by evolution-folks: evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/teach/68pitfalls.php#1e ... "Humans are apes" is only applicable within science ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape ) ... Birds are dinosaurs, so what's the matter with "people lived with dinosaurs"? ... and honestly, how do you know that the earth is 4 billion years old?
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider I wholeheartedly agree with you that this person is likely unfit to teach, but "removing" a professor is harmful to that professor. The desire to protect the other students is admirable, but it is not the student's job, it is the job of the other faculty. The duty of the student is to raise the objection, not to decide the fate of the instructor or push for any specific course of action.
  – kashim
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @DanRomik Your comment in parenthesis "and I'm far from being able to assess whether that's the case here" is exactly my point. No one on this forum knows enough of the circumstances behind this case to suggest that action be taken against the professor, let alone what that action might be. Specifically, the poster asked "If we were to complain, could anything be done?" The end answer is "Many things can be done, but only your dean knows enough to know what they are."
  – kashim
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

up vote
6
down vote

up vote
6
down vote

This is a difficult position to be in, but I'm alarmed that most of the other posts here seem to be discussing how to get a tenured professor fired or negatively impacted.

You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor. If your efforts seem focused on harming the career/public opinion of a tenured professor, the dean should, and hopefully will, meet those efforts to the defense of the instructor, which could result in very negative consequences to you and/or your wife.

Regardless of what you hope to achieve, ask the dean what your options are. If a professor is acting like this, it is extremely likely that the dean knows about it, and has heard complaints from other students. Most likely, your wife would be allowed to drop the course or transfer to another section with a different instructor without significant incident. If other students are having similar problems, the onus is on them to act similarly.

If you are really dead-set on trying to get the instructor reprimanded or fired, then take a video of the class, and be willing to accept it if the dean tells you that they can't do anything. There could be a lot of politics happening that you have no awareness of.

I would avoid the following:
Making a scene during class, arguing with the instructor in front of the class (do not pull a "God is Dead" moment in reverse), or actively attempting to get the instructor fired.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered yesterday

kashim

83915

New contributor

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

This is a difficult position to be in, but I'm alarmed that most of the other posts here seem to be discussing how to get a tenured professor fired or negatively impacted.

You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor. If your efforts seem focused on harming the career/public opinion of a tenured professor, the dean should, and hopefully will, meet those efforts to the defense of the instructor, which could result in very negative consequences to you and/or your wife.

Regardless of what you hope to achieve, ask the dean what your options are. If a professor is acting like this, it is extremely likely that the dean knows about it, and has heard complaints from other students. Most likely, your wife would be allowed to drop the course or transfer to another section with a different instructor without significant incident. If other students are having similar problems, the onus is on them to act similarly.

If you are really dead-set on trying to get the instructor reprimanded or fired, then take a video of the class, and be willing to accept it if the dean tells you that they can't do anything. There could be a lot of politics happening that you have no awareness of.

I would avoid the following:
Making a scene during class, arguing with the instructor in front of the class (do not pull a "God is Dead" moment in reverse), or actively attempting to get the instructor fired.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

answered yesterday

kashim

83915

New contributor

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

edited yesterday

elliot svensson

1173

1173

answered yesterday

kashim

83915

New contributor

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

answered yesterday

kashim

83915

answered yesterday

kashim

83915

83915

New contributor

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

New contributor

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

kashim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I disagree that the discussion of whether a tenured professor can be fired (which is what OP asked about) is motivated by wanting to harm anyone’s career. To me OP and his wife just sound concerned about the wife and her fellow students getting a bad education. As a general rule, if someone cannot do the job of a professor competently (and I’m far from being able to assess whether that‘s the case here), that person should be fired, not as punishment, but simply to protect the students’ right to get the quality education they are paying for.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Re "You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor": Not harming, but simply removing. Creationism is "not even wrong" but simply unscientific; as others remarked aleready it's a delusion which is immune against scientific dialogue. People harboring delusions in one field are likely harboring them in other fields as well and are generally unfit to teach.
  – Peter A. Schneider
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider, the OP has not mentioned Creationism but is in fact merely witnessing a skeptical stance toward a few common claims. "Evolution is proven" is not maintained by evolution-folks: evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/teach/68pitfalls.php#1e ... "Humans are apes" is only applicable within science ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape ) ... Birds are dinosaurs, so what's the matter with "people lived with dinosaurs"? ... and honestly, how do you know that the earth is 4 billion years old?
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider I wholeheartedly agree with you that this person is likely unfit to teach, but "removing" a professor is harmful to that professor. The desire to protect the other students is admirable, but it is not the student's job, it is the job of the other faculty. The duty of the student is to raise the objection, not to decide the fate of the instructor or push for any specific course of action.
  – kashim
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @DanRomik Your comment in parenthesis "and I'm far from being able to assess whether that's the case here" is exactly my point. No one on this forum knows enough of the circumstances behind this case to suggest that action be taken against the professor, let alone what that action might be. Specifically, the poster asked "If we were to complain, could anything be done?" The end answer is "Many things can be done, but only your dean knows enough to know what they are."
  – kashim
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 3 more comments

• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  I disagree that the discussion of whether a tenured professor can be fired (which is what OP asked about) is motivated by wanting to harm anyone’s career. To me OP and his wife just sound concerned about the wife and her fellow students getting a bad education. As a general rule, if someone cannot do the job of a professor competently (and I’m far from being able to assess whether that‘s the case here), that person should be fired, not as punishment, but simply to protect the students’ right to get the quality education they are paying for.
  – Dan Romik
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  Re "You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor": Not harming, but simply removing. Creationism is "not even wrong" but simply unscientific; as others remarked aleready it's a delusion which is immune against scientific dialogue. People harboring delusions in one field are likely harboring them in other fields as well and are generally unfit to teach.
  – Peter A. Schneider
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider, the OP has not mentioned Creationism but is in fact merely witnessing a skeptical stance toward a few common claims. "Evolution is proven" is not maintained by evolution-folks: evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/teach/68pitfalls.php#1e ... "Humans are apes" is only applicable within science ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape ) ... Birds are dinosaurs, so what's the matter with "people lived with dinosaurs"? ... and honestly, how do you know that the earth is 4 billion years old?
  – elliot svensson
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @PeterA.Schneider I wholeheartedly agree with you that this person is likely unfit to teach, but "removing" a professor is harmful to that professor. The desire to protect the other students is admirable, but it is not the student's job, it is the job of the other faculty. The duty of the student is to raise the objection, not to decide the fate of the instructor or push for any specific course of action.
  – kashim
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  @DanRomik Your comment in parenthesis "and I'm far from being able to assess whether that's the case here" is exactly my point. No one on this forum knows enough of the circumstances behind this case to suggest that action be taken against the professor, let alone what that action might be. Specifically, the poster asked "If we were to complain, could anything be done?" The end answer is "Many things can be done, but only your dean knows enough to know what they are."
  – kashim
  yesterday
  
  

  
  
  
  

2

2

I disagree that the discussion of whether a tenured professor can be fired (which is what OP asked about) is motivated by wanting to harm anyone’s career. To me OP and his wife just sound concerned about the wife and her fellow students getting a bad education. As a general rule, if someone cannot do the job of a professor competently (and I’m far from being able to assess whether that‘s the case here), that person should be fired, not as punishment, but simply to protect the students’ right to get the quality education they are paying for.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

I disagree that the discussion of whether a tenured professor can be fired (which is what OP asked about) is motivated by wanting to harm anyone’s career. To me OP and his wife just sound concerned about the wife and her fellow students getting a bad education. As a general rule, if someone cannot do the job of a professor competently (and I’m far from being able to assess whether that‘s the case here), that person should be fired, not as punishment, but simply to protect the students’ right to get the quality education they are paying for.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

4

4

Re "You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor": Not harming, but simply removing. Creationism is "not even wrong" but simply unscientific; as others remarked aleready it's a delusion which is immune against scientific dialogue. People harboring delusions in one field are likely harboring them in other fields as well and are generally unfit to teach.
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday

Re "You should be focused on helping either your wife and/or other students, NOT on harming the instructor": Not harming, but simply removing. Creationism is "not even wrong" but simply unscientific; as others remarked aleready it's a delusion which is immune against scientific dialogue. People harboring delusions in one field are likely harboring them in other fields as well and are generally unfit to teach.
– Peter A. Schneider
yesterday

1

1

@PeterA.Schneider, the OP has not mentioned Creationism but is in fact merely witnessing a skeptical stance toward a few common claims. "Evolution is proven" is not maintained by evolution-folks: evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/teach/68pitfalls.php#1e ... "Humans are apes" is only applicable within science ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape ) ... Birds are dinosaurs, so what's the matter with "people lived with dinosaurs"? ... and honestly, how do you know that the earth is 4 billion years old?
– elliot svensson
yesterday

@PeterA.Schneider, the OP has not mentioned Creationism but is in fact merely witnessing a skeptical stance toward a few common claims. "Evolution is proven" is not maintained by evolution-folks: evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/teach/68pitfalls.php#1e ... "Humans are apes" is only applicable within science ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape ) ... Birds are dinosaurs, so what's the matter with "people lived with dinosaurs"? ... and honestly, how do you know that the earth is 4 billion years old?
– elliot svensson
yesterday

@PeterA.Schneider I wholeheartedly agree with you that this person is likely unfit to teach, but "removing" a professor is harmful to that professor. The desire to protect the other students is admirable, but it is not the student's job, it is the job of the other faculty. The duty of the student is to raise the objection, not to decide the fate of the instructor or push for any specific course of action.
– kashim
yesterday

@PeterA.Schneider I wholeheartedly agree with you that this person is likely unfit to teach, but "removing" a professor is harmful to that professor. The desire to protect the other students is admirable, but it is not the student's job, it is the job of the other faculty. The duty of the student is to raise the objection, not to decide the fate of the instructor or push for any specific course of action.
– kashim
yesterday

1

1

@DanRomik Your comment in parenthesis "and I'm far from being able to assess whether that's the case here" is exactly my point. No one on this forum knows enough of the circumstances behind this case to suggest that action be taken against the professor, let alone what that action might be. Specifically, the poster asked "If we were to complain, could anything be done?" The end answer is "Many things can be done, but only your dean knows enough to know what they are."
– kashim
yesterday

@DanRomik Your comment in parenthesis "and I'm far from being able to assess whether that's the case here" is exactly my point. No one on this forum knows enough of the circumstances behind this case to suggest that action be taken against the professor, let alone what that action might be. Specifically, the poster asked "If we were to complain, could anything be done?" The end answer is "Many things can be done, but only your dean knows enough to know what they are."
– kashim
yesterday

 | 
show 3 more comments

Chiki is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.

 

draft saved

draft discarded

Chiki is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.

Chiki is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.

Chiki is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.

 

draft saved

draft discarded

Sign up or log in

StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Post as a guest

Name Email

StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2facademia.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f116605%2fdoes-tenure-protection-extend-to-professors-saying-that-evolution-is-false-in-cl%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest

Name Email

Sign up or log in

StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Post as a guest

Name Email

Sign up or log in

StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Post as a guest

Name Email

Sign up or log in

StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Post as a guest

Name Email

Name Email

Name

Email

Name Email

Name

Email