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Does a rogue's Uncanny Dodge halve each type of damage individually or the total?
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The rogue has the Uncanny Dodge class feature, which says this (PHB, pg. 96):
Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you.
As pointed out in the answers to this question, if an attack has multiple damage types, you half all of it. So consider the Spiked Bone Club attack of the Grimlock (MM, pg. 175):
Spiked Bone Club. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) bludgeoning damage plus 2 (1d4) piercing damage.
The Grimlock attacks the level 5 rogue and hits, and the DM rolls damage. The first d4 gives a 2, giving a total of 5 bludgeoning damage, and the other d4 gives a 3, giving a total of 3 piercing damage. The grand total is 8 damage.
Given that damage is rounded down when halved, do we:
- round each individual total down, which in this example is (5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3?
- round down the grand total, which in this example is (5 + 3) / 2 = 8 / 2 = 4?
dnd-5e class-feature damage rogue damage-resistance
asked Aug 23 at 14:34
NathanS
14.3k364157
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up vote
15
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The rogue has the Uncanny Dodge class feature, which says this (PHB, pg. 96):
Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you.
As pointed out in the answers to this question, if an attack has multiple damage types, you half all of it. So consider the Spiked Bone Club attack of the Grimlock (MM, pg. 175):
Spiked Bone Club. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) bludgeoning damage plus 2 (1d4) piercing damage.
The Grimlock attacks the level 5 rogue and hits, and the DM rolls damage. The first d4 gives a 2, giving a total of 5 bludgeoning damage, and the other d4 gives a 3, giving a total of 3 piercing damage. The grand total is 8 damage.
Given that damage is rounded down when halved, do we:
- round each individual total down, which in this example is (5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3?
- round down the grand total, which in this example is (5 + 3) / 2 = 8 / 2 = 4?
dnd-5e class-feature damage rogue damage-resistance
asked Aug 23 at 14:34
NathanS
14.3k364157
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
The rogue has the Uncanny Dodge class feature, which says this (PHB, pg. 96):
Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you.
As pointed out in the answers to this question, if an attack has multiple damage types, you half all of it. So consider the Spiked Bone Club attack of the Grimlock (MM, pg. 175):
Spiked Bone Club. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) bludgeoning damage plus 2 (1d4) piercing damage.
The Grimlock attacks the level 5 rogue and hits, and the DM rolls damage. The first d4 gives a 2, giving a total of 5 bludgeoning damage, and the other d4 gives a 3, giving a total of 3 piercing damage. The grand total is 8 damage.
Given that damage is rounded down when halved, do we:
- round each individual total down, which in this example is (5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3?
- round down the grand total, which in this example is (5 + 3) / 2 = 8 / 2 = 4?
dnd-5e class-feature damage rogue damage-resistance
asked Aug 23 at 14:34
NathanS
14.3k364157
The rogue has the Uncanny Dodge class feature, which says this (PHB, pg. 96):
Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you.
As pointed out in the answers to this question, if an attack has multiple damage types, you half all of it. So consider the Spiked Bone Club attack of the Grimlock (MM, pg. 175):
Spiked Bone Club. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) bludgeoning damage plus 2 (1d4) piercing damage.
The Grimlock attacks the level 5 rogue and hits, and the DM rolls damage. The first d4 gives a 2, giving a total of 5 bludgeoning damage, and the other d4 gives a 3, giving a total of 3 piercing damage. The grand total is 8 damage.
Given that damage is rounded down when halved, do we:
- round each individual total down, which in this example is (5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3?
- round down the grand total, which in this example is (5 + 3) / 2 = 8 / 2 = 4?
dnd-5e class-feature damage rogue damage-resistance
asked Aug 23 at 14:34
NathanS
14.3k364157
asked Aug 23 at 14:34
NathanS
14.3k364157
asked Aug 23 at 14:34
NathanS
14.3k364157
asked Aug 23 at 14:34
NathanS
14.3k364157
14.3k364157
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
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up vote
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Uncanny Dodge halves the individual types
The wording doesn't use reference to damage types or to the concept of resistance, so you're not reducing the damage because you're resistant to it, but rather because you're quick and agile and can dodge the brunt of it.
The Jeremy Crawford Tweet that Grosscol's answer mentioned uses language that lumps the damage into "one big damage roll," which is what this feature affects. All of this would suggest that you could halve the total and be done with it, however:
Resistances/vulnerabilities are calculated last
Resistance and then vulnerability are applied after all other modifiers to damage. - (PHB 197)
This means that you have to apply Uncanny Dodge before you apply any resistances or vulnerabilities. This is impossible without abandoning rounding in any cases involving odd numbers. In order to be able to apply Uncanny Dodge before an effect that alters individual damage types, you must apply it to those individual types too!
For example:
An Ice Devil (MM 75) hits Bobby with it's Claws, dealing 9 slashing damage and 11 cold damage.
Bobby, a level 10 rogue, is wearing the Boots of the Winterlands (DMG 156) giving him resistance to cold. He also uses his Uncanny Dodge ability.
Resistance is calculated last, so we must calculate Uncanny Dodge first. If we halve the total (20) for 10 damage, what damage is halved by cold resistance? If instead we halve both individually (4 slashing, 5 cold) then we have a cold type damage value (5) to halve at the end using resistance.
answered Aug 24 at 6:49
Isaac Reefman
1,834238
This answer deals with a closely related but different issue - in this case, we aren't dealing with resistance. In the linked question, while it's an unusual example, the resistance granted replaces any resistances the creatures would otherwise have, as multiple instances of resistance do not stack.
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:53
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
The fastest method is to halve the total damage; by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
However, this fails to take into account characters who may be resistant to some or all of the damage:
- A flame tongue swords hitting a Tiefling or non-Bear Raging Barbarians...
- A spiked bone club hitting a character with the DDAL Season 4 Dark Gift that provides resistance to only bludgeoning damage...
- Etc, etc, etc...
The most consistent method would be to halve them individually. There would be no issues on characters with or without resistances. After all, by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
Which is the right way is for your table to decide. I've played in games done both ways. Personally, when I run games... I let Fantasy Grounds' automation handle resistances, and then just halve the resulting damage for Uncanny Dodge (because it isn't automated).
answered Aug 23 at 15:47
T.J.L.
25.6k379139
I think FG creates a set of damage types for the damage value, so you end up with [piercing, bludgeoning, magic] for the entire value. Anything that affects any member of the set is applied to the entire value. Is that your recollection/experience as well?
– Grosscol
Aug 23 at 16:53
@T.J.L. you should update your response accordingly. Halving damage after all resistances and summing seems like the obvious one to me.
– Ben Barden
Aug 23 at 18:20
@BenBarden Good point.
– T.J.L.
Aug 23 at 18:23
@Grosscol what's FG?
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:57
@IsaacReefman Fantasy Grounds
– T.J.L.
Aug 24 at 12:11
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
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Half of the Total Damage of the Attack
tl;dr all damage is consolidated per attack. Take half of the total.
Attack Damage is "One Big Roll"
JC tweet
When something in the game (Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, hex, etc.) causes your attack/spell/etc. to deal extra dice of damage, those dice are added to the damage the effect is already dealing, if any. It's one big damage roll, extra damage included.
Treating the damage of an attack as one big roll is consistent with halving the total damage of an attack. This is the correct calculation for 5e and is simpler to boot.
Separate Calculation is NOT Equal
Due to rounding down in 5e, applying half damage to two damage types that are part of the whole could result in less than half total damage. For example:
An attack does 7 piercing and 3 fire damage. Total damage 10.
- Half of the total is 5 damage.
- The sum of halving parts is 4 damage (half of 7 rounds to 3 and half of 3 rounds down to 1).
answered Aug 23 at 15:18
Grosscol
4,045734
Well said. It might be worth noting the exception to this: damage contingent on saving throws that also require an attack (like certain kinds of poisoned weapons). Feel free to ignore this suggestion if you think that would muddy the waters.
– Gandalfmeansme
Aug 23 at 15:23
2
What would your answer be if the character had fire resistance?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 15:24
@PJRZ See: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91250/… . Yes, it is inconsistent with this answer.
– Michael W.
Aug 23 at 15:33
5
This answer doesn't seem to make sense. If you take 5 damage, what is the type of that 5 damage? Some of it is piercing and some of it is fire, so how do you then know how much of the 5 is each type? Like if you're vulnerable to fire for some reason, or have armor that's making you resist Piercing damage, how do you run the calculation after the point where you've added it up and halved it in a lump sum?
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:42
1
While everything is lumped into 'damage', I don't think the tweet is referencing how to apply resistance to an attack's damage but only in determining what damages are included in an attack.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 18:02
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3
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The only reasonable answer is that each damage type is halved individually, because the alternative means you have to lose track of what amount of damage of each type you're doing, and 5th Edition does not support damage that has multiple types (you can't do 'piercing and fire' damage or similar) or no type. You have to be able to attach a type to the damage dealt, and mixing different types of damage before halving it would obscure that information.
That is to say, if you add it all up and divide the total by 2 (to get 8/2 = 4 in your example), you've lost track of what damage type it is (or how much of the damage dealt is each type), and that's not allowed.
When the uncanny dodge is the only thing altering your damage total, it may not look like it makes much difference, but the answer to how to halve damage needs to continue to support other effects that depend on damage type. It would be unreasonable to use one algorithm when there's no relevant damage-type-related effects than when there are; the math should not change just because a later step does or does not exist.
By halving down each damage total individually -- the "(5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3" version -- it's clear what's what; you have 2 bludgeoning + 1 piercing, and if you need to further modify one of those totals, it's trivial to do so.
If you just say "okay that's half of 8, so 4 damage", you can't say how much of that 4 gets modified by type resistances or vulnerabilities after that point.
answered Aug 23 at 14:48
Darth Pseudonym
4,755831
1
Would you calculate it differently (for simplicity if nothing else) if it doesn't matter about the breakdown between damage types?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 14:59
Other than pure 'reasonableness', do you have anything else to support your answer? Examples showing why it's reasonable would help immensely.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 15:16
@PJRZ No, I'd still break up the damage and halve each part of it. Most of the time it won't make any difference, but if you get hit by, say, three Magic Missiles and had Resistance to Force damage, I'd halve the damage from each one individually, not add them all up and then divide by 2.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:38
1
@NathanS I expanded on it.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:55
1
@Reibello and Michael W., I added a little something to try to be clearer, but can you specify what you're looking for that I didn't already say? It's the only reasonable answer because you can't have multi-typed damage. I'm not sure how to 'back that up' beyond than the fact that it's just not something the system supports.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 18:06
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Uncanny Dodge halves the individual types
The wording doesn't use reference to damage types or to the concept of resistance, so you're not reducing the damage because you're resistant to it, but rather because you're quick and agile and can dodge the brunt of it.
The Jeremy Crawford Tweet that Grosscol's answer mentioned uses language that lumps the damage into "one big damage roll," which is what this feature affects. All of this would suggest that you could halve the total and be done with it, however:
Resistances/vulnerabilities are calculated last
Resistance and then vulnerability are applied after all other modifiers to damage. - (PHB 197)
This means that you have to apply Uncanny Dodge before you apply any resistances or vulnerabilities. This is impossible without abandoning rounding in any cases involving odd numbers. In order to be able to apply Uncanny Dodge before an effect that alters individual damage types, you must apply it to those individual types too!
For example:
An Ice Devil (MM 75) hits Bobby with it's Claws, dealing 9 slashing damage and 11 cold damage.
Bobby, a level 10 rogue, is wearing the Boots of the Winterlands (DMG 156) giving him resistance to cold. He also uses his Uncanny Dodge ability.
Resistance is calculated last, so we must calculate Uncanny Dodge first. If we halve the total (20) for 10 damage, what damage is halved by cold resistance? If instead we halve both individually (4 slashing, 5 cold) then we have a cold type damage value (5) to halve at the end using resistance.
answered Aug 24 at 6:49
Isaac Reefman
1,834238
This answer deals with a closely related but different issue - in this case, we aren't dealing with resistance. In the linked question, while it's an unusual example, the resistance granted replaces any resistances the creatures would otherwise have, as multiple instances of resistance do not stack.
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:53
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Uncanny Dodge halves the individual types
The wording doesn't use reference to damage types or to the concept of resistance, so you're not reducing the damage because you're resistant to it, but rather because you're quick and agile and can dodge the brunt of it.
The Jeremy Crawford Tweet that Grosscol's answer mentioned uses language that lumps the damage into "one big damage roll," which is what this feature affects. All of this would suggest that you could halve the total and be done with it, however:
Resistances/vulnerabilities are calculated last
Resistance and then vulnerability are applied after all other modifiers to damage. - (PHB 197)
This means that you have to apply Uncanny Dodge before you apply any resistances or vulnerabilities. This is impossible without abandoning rounding in any cases involving odd numbers. In order to be able to apply Uncanny Dodge before an effect that alters individual damage types, you must apply it to those individual types too!
For example:
An Ice Devil (MM 75) hits Bobby with it's Claws, dealing 9 slashing damage and 11 cold damage.
Bobby, a level 10 rogue, is wearing the Boots of the Winterlands (DMG 156) giving him resistance to cold. He also uses his Uncanny Dodge ability.
Resistance is calculated last, so we must calculate Uncanny Dodge first. If we halve the total (20) for 10 damage, what damage is halved by cold resistance? If instead we halve both individually (4 slashing, 5 cold) then we have a cold type damage value (5) to halve at the end using resistance.
answered Aug 24 at 6:49
Isaac Reefman
1,834238
This answer deals with a closely related but different issue - in this case, we aren't dealing with resistance. In the linked question, while it's an unusual example, the resistance granted replaces any resistances the creatures would otherwise have, as multiple instances of resistance do not stack.
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:53
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Uncanny Dodge halves the individual types
The wording doesn't use reference to damage types or to the concept of resistance, so you're not reducing the damage because you're resistant to it, but rather because you're quick and agile and can dodge the brunt of it.
The Jeremy Crawford Tweet that Grosscol's answer mentioned uses language that lumps the damage into "one big damage roll," which is what this feature affects. All of this would suggest that you could halve the total and be done with it, however:
Resistances/vulnerabilities are calculated last
Resistance and then vulnerability are applied after all other modifiers to damage. - (PHB 197)
This means that you have to apply Uncanny Dodge before you apply any resistances or vulnerabilities. This is impossible without abandoning rounding in any cases involving odd numbers. In order to be able to apply Uncanny Dodge before an effect that alters individual damage types, you must apply it to those individual types too!
For example:
An Ice Devil (MM 75) hits Bobby with it's Claws, dealing 9 slashing damage and 11 cold damage.
Bobby, a level 10 rogue, is wearing the Boots of the Winterlands (DMG 156) giving him resistance to cold. He also uses his Uncanny Dodge ability.
Resistance is calculated last, so we must calculate Uncanny Dodge first. If we halve the total (20) for 10 damage, what damage is halved by cold resistance? If instead we halve both individually (4 slashing, 5 cold) then we have a cold type damage value (5) to halve at the end using resistance.
answered Aug 24 at 6:49
Isaac Reefman
1,834238
Uncanny Dodge halves the individual types
The wording doesn't use reference to damage types or to the concept of resistance, so you're not reducing the damage because you're resistant to it, but rather because you're quick and agile and can dodge the brunt of it.
The Jeremy Crawford Tweet that Grosscol's answer mentioned uses language that lumps the damage into "one big damage roll," which is what this feature affects. All of this would suggest that you could halve the total and be done with it, however:
Resistances/vulnerabilities are calculated last
Resistance and then vulnerability are applied after all other modifiers to damage. - (PHB 197)
This means that you have to apply Uncanny Dodge before you apply any resistances or vulnerabilities. This is impossible without abandoning rounding in any cases involving odd numbers. In order to be able to apply Uncanny Dodge before an effect that alters individual damage types, you must apply it to those individual types too!
For example:
An Ice Devil (MM 75) hits Bobby with it's Claws, dealing 9 slashing damage and 11 cold damage.
Bobby, a level 10 rogue, is wearing the Boots of the Winterlands (DMG 156) giving him resistance to cold. He also uses his Uncanny Dodge ability.
Resistance is calculated last, so we must calculate Uncanny Dodge first. If we halve the total (20) for 10 damage, what damage is halved by cold resistance? If instead we halve both individually (4 slashing, 5 cold) then we have a cold type damage value (5) to halve at the end using resistance.
answered Aug 24 at 6:49
Isaac Reefman
1,834238
edited Aug 24 at 8:18
answered Aug 24 at 6:49
Isaac Reefman
1,834238
answered Aug 24 at 6:49
Isaac Reefman
1,834238
answered Aug 24 at 6:49
Isaac Reefman
1,834238
1,834238
This answer deals with a closely related but different issue - in this case, we aren't dealing with resistance. In the linked question, while it's an unusual example, the resistance granted replaces any resistances the creatures would otherwise have, as multiple instances of resistance do not stack.
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:53
add a comment |Â
This answer deals with a closely related but different issue - in this case, we aren't dealing with resistance. In the linked question, while it's an unusual example, the resistance granted replaces any resistances the creatures would otherwise have, as multiple instances of resistance do not stack.
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:53
This answer deals with a closely related but different issue - in this case, we aren't dealing with resistance. In the linked question, while it's an unusual example, the resistance granted replaces any resistances the creatures would otherwise have, as multiple instances of resistance do not stack.
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:53
This answer deals with a closely related but different issue - in this case, we aren't dealing with resistance. In the linked question, while it's an unusual example, the resistance granted replaces any resistances the creatures would otherwise have, as multiple instances of resistance do not stack.
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:53
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
The fastest method is to halve the total damage; by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
However, this fails to take into account characters who may be resistant to some or all of the damage:
- A flame tongue swords hitting a Tiefling or non-Bear Raging Barbarians...
- A spiked bone club hitting a character with the DDAL Season 4 Dark Gift that provides resistance to only bludgeoning damage...
- Etc, etc, etc...
The most consistent method would be to halve them individually. There would be no issues on characters with or without resistances. After all, by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
Which is the right way is for your table to decide. I've played in games done both ways. Personally, when I run games... I let Fantasy Grounds' automation handle resistances, and then just halve the resulting damage for Uncanny Dodge (because it isn't automated).
answered Aug 23 at 15:47
T.J.L.
25.6k379139
I think FG creates a set of damage types for the damage value, so you end up with [piercing, bludgeoning, magic] for the entire value. Anything that affects any member of the set is applied to the entire value. Is that your recollection/experience as well?
– Grosscol
Aug 23 at 16:53
@T.J.L. you should update your response accordingly. Halving damage after all resistances and summing seems like the obvious one to me.
– Ben Barden
Aug 23 at 18:20
@BenBarden Good point.
– T.J.L.
Aug 23 at 18:23
@Grosscol what's FG?
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:57
@IsaacReefman Fantasy Grounds
– T.J.L.
Aug 24 at 12:11
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
The fastest method is to halve the total damage; by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
However, this fails to take into account characters who may be resistant to some or all of the damage:
- A flame tongue swords hitting a Tiefling or non-Bear Raging Barbarians...
- A spiked bone club hitting a character with the DDAL Season 4 Dark Gift that provides resistance to only bludgeoning damage...
- Etc, etc, etc...
The most consistent method would be to halve them individually. There would be no issues on characters with or without resistances. After all, by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
Which is the right way is for your table to decide. I've played in games done both ways. Personally, when I run games... I let Fantasy Grounds' automation handle resistances, and then just halve the resulting damage for Uncanny Dodge (because it isn't automated).
answered Aug 23 at 15:47
T.J.L.
25.6k379139
I think FG creates a set of damage types for the damage value, so you end up with [piercing, bludgeoning, magic] for the entire value. Anything that affects any member of the set is applied to the entire value. Is that your recollection/experience as well?
– Grosscol
Aug 23 at 16:53
@T.J.L. you should update your response accordingly. Halving damage after all resistances and summing seems like the obvious one to me.
– Ben Barden
Aug 23 at 18:20
@BenBarden Good point.
– T.J.L.
Aug 23 at 18:23
@Grosscol what's FG?
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:57
@IsaacReefman Fantasy Grounds
– T.J.L.
Aug 24 at 12:11
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
The fastest method is to halve the total damage; by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
However, this fails to take into account characters who may be resistant to some or all of the damage:
- A flame tongue swords hitting a Tiefling or non-Bear Raging Barbarians...
- A spiked bone club hitting a character with the DDAL Season 4 Dark Gift that provides resistance to only bludgeoning damage...
- Etc, etc, etc...
The most consistent method would be to halve them individually. There would be no issues on characters with or without resistances. After all, by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
Which is the right way is for your table to decide. I've played in games done both ways. Personally, when I run games... I let Fantasy Grounds' automation handle resistances, and then just halve the resulting damage for Uncanny Dodge (because it isn't automated).
answered Aug 23 at 15:47
T.J.L.
25.6k379139
The fastest method is to halve the total damage; by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
However, this fails to take into account characters who may be resistant to some or all of the damage:
- A flame tongue swords hitting a Tiefling or non-Bear Raging Barbarians...
- A spiked bone club hitting a character with the DDAL Season 4 Dark Gift that provides resistance to only bludgeoning damage...
- Etc, etc, etc...
The most consistent method would be to halve them individually. There would be no issues on characters with or without resistances. After all, by the time a character has Uncanny Dodge, half a Hit Point here or there shouldn't really matter all that much.
Which is the right way is for your table to decide. I've played in games done both ways. Personally, when I run games... I let Fantasy Grounds' automation handle resistances, and then just halve the resulting damage for Uncanny Dodge (because it isn't automated).
answered Aug 23 at 15:47
T.J.L.
25.6k379139
edited Aug 23 at 18:23
answered Aug 23 at 15:47
T.J.L.
25.6k379139
answered Aug 23 at 15:47
T.J.L.
25.6k379139
answered Aug 23 at 15:47
T.J.L.
25.6k379139
25.6k379139
I think FG creates a set of damage types for the damage value, so you end up with [piercing, bludgeoning, magic] for the entire value. Anything that affects any member of the set is applied to the entire value. Is that your recollection/experience as well?
– Grosscol
Aug 23 at 16:53
@T.J.L. you should update your response accordingly. Halving damage after all resistances and summing seems like the obvious one to me.
– Ben Barden
Aug 23 at 18:20
@BenBarden Good point.
– T.J.L.
Aug 23 at 18:23
@Grosscol what's FG?
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:57
@IsaacReefman Fantasy Grounds
– T.J.L.
Aug 24 at 12:11
add a comment |Â
I think FG creates a set of damage types for the damage value, so you end up with [piercing, bludgeoning, magic] for the entire value. Anything that affects any member of the set is applied to the entire value. Is that your recollection/experience as well?
– Grosscol
Aug 23 at 16:53
@T.J.L. you should update your response accordingly. Halving damage after all resistances and summing seems like the obvious one to me.
– Ben Barden
Aug 23 at 18:20
@BenBarden Good point.
– T.J.L.
Aug 23 at 18:23
@Grosscol what's FG?
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:57
@IsaacReefman Fantasy Grounds
– T.J.L.
Aug 24 at 12:11
I think FG creates a set of damage types for the damage value, so you end up with [piercing, bludgeoning, magic] for the entire value. Anything that affects any member of the set is applied to the entire value. Is that your recollection/experience as well?
– Grosscol
Aug 23 at 16:53
I think FG creates a set of damage types for the damage value, so you end up with [piercing, bludgeoning, magic] for the entire value. Anything that affects any member of the set is applied to the entire value. Is that your recollection/experience as well?
– Grosscol
Aug 23 at 16:53
@T.J.L. you should update your response accordingly. Halving damage after all resistances and summing seems like the obvious one to me.
– Ben Barden
Aug 23 at 18:20
@T.J.L. you should update your response accordingly. Halving damage after all resistances and summing seems like the obvious one to me.
– Ben Barden
Aug 23 at 18:20
@BenBarden Good point.
– T.J.L.
Aug 23 at 18:23
@BenBarden Good point.
– T.J.L.
Aug 23 at 18:23
@Grosscol what's FG?
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:57
@Grosscol what's FG?
– Isaac Reefman
Aug 24 at 6:57
@IsaacReefman Fantasy Grounds
– T.J.L.
Aug 24 at 12:11
@IsaacReefman Fantasy Grounds
– T.J.L.
Aug 24 at 12:11
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Half of the Total Damage of the Attack
tl;dr all damage is consolidated per attack. Take half of the total.
Attack Damage is "One Big Roll"
JC tweet
When something in the game (Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, hex, etc.) causes your attack/spell/etc. to deal extra dice of damage, those dice are added to the damage the effect is already dealing, if any. It's one big damage roll, extra damage included.
Treating the damage of an attack as one big roll is consistent with halving the total damage of an attack. This is the correct calculation for 5e and is simpler to boot.
Separate Calculation is NOT Equal
Due to rounding down in 5e, applying half damage to two damage types that are part of the whole could result in less than half total damage. For example:
An attack does 7 piercing and 3 fire damage. Total damage 10.
- Half of the total is 5 damage.
- The sum of halving parts is 4 damage (half of 7 rounds to 3 and half of 3 rounds down to 1).
answered Aug 23 at 15:18
Grosscol
4,045734
Well said. It might be worth noting the exception to this: damage contingent on saving throws that also require an attack (like certain kinds of poisoned weapons). Feel free to ignore this suggestion if you think that would muddy the waters.
– Gandalfmeansme
Aug 23 at 15:23
2
What would your answer be if the character had fire resistance?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 15:24
@PJRZ See: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91250/… . Yes, it is inconsistent with this answer.
– Michael W.
Aug 23 at 15:33
5
This answer doesn't seem to make sense. If you take 5 damage, what is the type of that 5 damage? Some of it is piercing and some of it is fire, so how do you then know how much of the 5 is each type? Like if you're vulnerable to fire for some reason, or have armor that's making you resist Piercing damage, how do you run the calculation after the point where you've added it up and halved it in a lump sum?
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:42
1
While everything is lumped into 'damage', I don't think the tweet is referencing how to apply resistance to an attack's damage but only in determining what damages are included in an attack.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 18:02
 |Â
show 9 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
Half of the Total Damage of the Attack
tl;dr all damage is consolidated per attack. Take half of the total.
Attack Damage is "One Big Roll"
JC tweet
When something in the game (Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, hex, etc.) causes your attack/spell/etc. to deal extra dice of damage, those dice are added to the damage the effect is already dealing, if any. It's one big damage roll, extra damage included.
Treating the damage of an attack as one big roll is consistent with halving the total damage of an attack. This is the correct calculation for 5e and is simpler to boot.
Separate Calculation is NOT Equal
Due to rounding down in 5e, applying half damage to two damage types that are part of the whole could result in less than half total damage. For example:
An attack does 7 piercing and 3 fire damage. Total damage 10.
- Half of the total is 5 damage.
- The sum of halving parts is 4 damage (half of 7 rounds to 3 and half of 3 rounds down to 1).
answered Aug 23 at 15:18
Grosscol
4,045734
Well said. It might be worth noting the exception to this: damage contingent on saving throws that also require an attack (like certain kinds of poisoned weapons). Feel free to ignore this suggestion if you think that would muddy the waters.
– Gandalfmeansme
Aug 23 at 15:23
2
What would your answer be if the character had fire resistance?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 15:24
@PJRZ See: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91250/… . Yes, it is inconsistent with this answer.
– Michael W.
Aug 23 at 15:33
5
This answer doesn't seem to make sense. If you take 5 damage, what is the type of that 5 damage? Some of it is piercing and some of it is fire, so how do you then know how much of the 5 is each type? Like if you're vulnerable to fire for some reason, or have armor that's making you resist Piercing damage, how do you run the calculation after the point where you've added it up and halved it in a lump sum?
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:42
1
While everything is lumped into 'damage', I don't think the tweet is referencing how to apply resistance to an attack's damage but only in determining what damages are included in an attack.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 18:02
 |Â
show 9 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Half of the Total Damage of the Attack
tl;dr all damage is consolidated per attack. Take half of the total.
Attack Damage is "One Big Roll"
JC tweet
When something in the game (Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, hex, etc.) causes your attack/spell/etc. to deal extra dice of damage, those dice are added to the damage the effect is already dealing, if any. It's one big damage roll, extra damage included.
Treating the damage of an attack as one big roll is consistent with halving the total damage of an attack. This is the correct calculation for 5e and is simpler to boot.
Separate Calculation is NOT Equal
Due to rounding down in 5e, applying half damage to two damage types that are part of the whole could result in less than half total damage. For example:
An attack does 7 piercing and 3 fire damage. Total damage 10.
- Half of the total is 5 damage.
- The sum of halving parts is 4 damage (half of 7 rounds to 3 and half of 3 rounds down to 1).
answered Aug 23 at 15:18
Grosscol
4,045734
Half of the Total Damage of the Attack
tl;dr all damage is consolidated per attack. Take half of the total.
Attack Damage is "One Big Roll"
JC tweet
When something in the game (Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, hex, etc.) causes your attack/spell/etc. to deal extra dice of damage, those dice are added to the damage the effect is already dealing, if any. It's one big damage roll, extra damage included.
Treating the damage of an attack as one big roll is consistent with halving the total damage of an attack. This is the correct calculation for 5e and is simpler to boot.
Separate Calculation is NOT Equal
Due to rounding down in 5e, applying half damage to two damage types that are part of the whole could result in less than half total damage. For example:
An attack does 7 piercing and 3 fire damage. Total damage 10.
- Half of the total is 5 damage.
- The sum of halving parts is 4 damage (half of 7 rounds to 3 and half of 3 rounds down to 1).
answered Aug 23 at 15:18
Grosscol
4,045734
answered Aug 23 at 15:18
Grosscol
4,045734
answered Aug 23 at 15:18
Grosscol
4,045734
answered Aug 23 at 15:18
Grosscol
4,045734
4,045734
Well said. It might be worth noting the exception to this: damage contingent on saving throws that also require an attack (like certain kinds of poisoned weapons). Feel free to ignore this suggestion if you think that would muddy the waters.
– Gandalfmeansme
Aug 23 at 15:23
2
What would your answer be if the character had fire resistance?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 15:24
@PJRZ See: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91250/… . Yes, it is inconsistent with this answer.
– Michael W.
Aug 23 at 15:33
5
This answer doesn't seem to make sense. If you take 5 damage, what is the type of that 5 damage? Some of it is piercing and some of it is fire, so how do you then know how much of the 5 is each type? Like if you're vulnerable to fire for some reason, or have armor that's making you resist Piercing damage, how do you run the calculation after the point where you've added it up and halved it in a lump sum?
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:42
1
While everything is lumped into 'damage', I don't think the tweet is referencing how to apply resistance to an attack's damage but only in determining what damages are included in an attack.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 18:02
 |Â
show 9 more comments
Well said. It might be worth noting the exception to this: damage contingent on saving throws that also require an attack (like certain kinds of poisoned weapons). Feel free to ignore this suggestion if you think that would muddy the waters.
– Gandalfmeansme
Aug 23 at 15:23
2
What would your answer be if the character had fire resistance?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 15:24
@PJRZ See: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91250/… . Yes, it is inconsistent with this answer.
– Michael W.
Aug 23 at 15:33
5
This answer doesn't seem to make sense. If you take 5 damage, what is the type of that 5 damage? Some of it is piercing and some of it is fire, so how do you then know how much of the 5 is each type? Like if you're vulnerable to fire for some reason, or have armor that's making you resist Piercing damage, how do you run the calculation after the point where you've added it up and halved it in a lump sum?
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:42
1
While everything is lumped into 'damage', I don't think the tweet is referencing how to apply resistance to an attack's damage but only in determining what damages are included in an attack.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 18:02
Well said. It might be worth noting the exception to this: damage contingent on saving throws that also require an attack (like certain kinds of poisoned weapons). Feel free to ignore this suggestion if you think that would muddy the waters.
– Gandalfmeansme
Aug 23 at 15:23
Well said. It might be worth noting the exception to this: damage contingent on saving throws that also require an attack (like certain kinds of poisoned weapons). Feel free to ignore this suggestion if you think that would muddy the waters.
– Gandalfmeansme
Aug 23 at 15:23
2
2
What would your answer be if the character had fire resistance?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 15:24
What would your answer be if the character had fire resistance?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 15:24
@PJRZ See: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91250/… . Yes, it is inconsistent with this answer.
– Michael W.
Aug 23 at 15:33
@PJRZ See: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91250/… . Yes, it is inconsistent with this answer.
– Michael W.
Aug 23 at 15:33
5
5
This answer doesn't seem to make sense. If you take 5 damage, what is the type of that 5 damage? Some of it is piercing and some of it is fire, so how do you then know how much of the 5 is each type? Like if you're vulnerable to fire for some reason, or have armor that's making you resist Piercing damage, how do you run the calculation after the point where you've added it up and halved it in a lump sum?
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:42
This answer doesn't seem to make sense. If you take 5 damage, what is the type of that 5 damage? Some of it is piercing and some of it is fire, so how do you then know how much of the 5 is each type? Like if you're vulnerable to fire for some reason, or have armor that's making you resist Piercing damage, how do you run the calculation after the point where you've added it up and halved it in a lump sum?
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:42
1
1
While everything is lumped into 'damage', I don't think the tweet is referencing how to apply resistance to an attack's damage but only in determining what damages are included in an attack.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 18:02
While everything is lumped into 'damage', I don't think the tweet is referencing how to apply resistance to an attack's damage but only in determining what damages are included in an attack.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 18:02
 |Â
show 9 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
The only reasonable answer is that each damage type is halved individually, because the alternative means you have to lose track of what amount of damage of each type you're doing, and 5th Edition does not support damage that has multiple types (you can't do 'piercing and fire' damage or similar) or no type. You have to be able to attach a type to the damage dealt, and mixing different types of damage before halving it would obscure that information.
That is to say, if you add it all up and divide the total by 2 (to get 8/2 = 4 in your example), you've lost track of what damage type it is (or how much of the damage dealt is each type), and that's not allowed.
When the uncanny dodge is the only thing altering your damage total, it may not look like it makes much difference, but the answer to how to halve damage needs to continue to support other effects that depend on damage type. It would be unreasonable to use one algorithm when there's no relevant damage-type-related effects than when there are; the math should not change just because a later step does or does not exist.
By halving down each damage total individually -- the "(5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3" version -- it's clear what's what; you have 2 bludgeoning + 1 piercing, and if you need to further modify one of those totals, it's trivial to do so.
If you just say "okay that's half of 8, so 4 damage", you can't say how much of that 4 gets modified by type resistances or vulnerabilities after that point.
answered Aug 23 at 14:48
Darth Pseudonym
4,755831
1
Would you calculate it differently (for simplicity if nothing else) if it doesn't matter about the breakdown between damage types?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 14:59
Other than pure 'reasonableness', do you have anything else to support your answer? Examples showing why it's reasonable would help immensely.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 15:16
@PJRZ No, I'd still break up the damage and halve each part of it. Most of the time it won't make any difference, but if you get hit by, say, three Magic Missiles and had Resistance to Force damage, I'd halve the damage from each one individually, not add them all up and then divide by 2.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:38
1
@NathanS I expanded on it.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:55
1
@Reibello and Michael W., I added a little something to try to be clearer, but can you specify what you're looking for that I didn't already say? It's the only reasonable answer because you can't have multi-typed damage. I'm not sure how to 'back that up' beyond than the fact that it's just not something the system supports.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 18:06
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
The only reasonable answer is that each damage type is halved individually, because the alternative means you have to lose track of what amount of damage of each type you're doing, and 5th Edition does not support damage that has multiple types (you can't do 'piercing and fire' damage or similar) or no type. You have to be able to attach a type to the damage dealt, and mixing different types of damage before halving it would obscure that information.
That is to say, if you add it all up and divide the total by 2 (to get 8/2 = 4 in your example), you've lost track of what damage type it is (or how much of the damage dealt is each type), and that's not allowed.
When the uncanny dodge is the only thing altering your damage total, it may not look like it makes much difference, but the answer to how to halve damage needs to continue to support other effects that depend on damage type. It would be unreasonable to use one algorithm when there's no relevant damage-type-related effects than when there are; the math should not change just because a later step does or does not exist.
By halving down each damage total individually -- the "(5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3" version -- it's clear what's what; you have 2 bludgeoning + 1 piercing, and if you need to further modify one of those totals, it's trivial to do so.
If you just say "okay that's half of 8, so 4 damage", you can't say how much of that 4 gets modified by type resistances or vulnerabilities after that point.
answered Aug 23 at 14:48
Darth Pseudonym
4,755831
1
Would you calculate it differently (for simplicity if nothing else) if it doesn't matter about the breakdown between damage types?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 14:59
Other than pure 'reasonableness', do you have anything else to support your answer? Examples showing why it's reasonable would help immensely.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 15:16
@PJRZ No, I'd still break up the damage and halve each part of it. Most of the time it won't make any difference, but if you get hit by, say, three Magic Missiles and had Resistance to Force damage, I'd halve the damage from each one individually, not add them all up and then divide by 2.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:38
1
@NathanS I expanded on it.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:55
1
@Reibello and Michael W., I added a little something to try to be clearer, but can you specify what you're looking for that I didn't already say? It's the only reasonable answer because you can't have multi-typed damage. I'm not sure how to 'back that up' beyond than the fact that it's just not something the system supports.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 18:06
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
The only reasonable answer is that each damage type is halved individually, because the alternative means you have to lose track of what amount of damage of each type you're doing, and 5th Edition does not support damage that has multiple types (you can't do 'piercing and fire' damage or similar) or no type. You have to be able to attach a type to the damage dealt, and mixing different types of damage before halving it would obscure that information.
That is to say, if you add it all up and divide the total by 2 (to get 8/2 = 4 in your example), you've lost track of what damage type it is (or how much of the damage dealt is each type), and that's not allowed.
When the uncanny dodge is the only thing altering your damage total, it may not look like it makes much difference, but the answer to how to halve damage needs to continue to support other effects that depend on damage type. It would be unreasonable to use one algorithm when there's no relevant damage-type-related effects than when there are; the math should not change just because a later step does or does not exist.
By halving down each damage total individually -- the "(5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3" version -- it's clear what's what; you have 2 bludgeoning + 1 piercing, and if you need to further modify one of those totals, it's trivial to do so.
If you just say "okay that's half of 8, so 4 damage", you can't say how much of that 4 gets modified by type resistances or vulnerabilities after that point.
answered Aug 23 at 14:48
Darth Pseudonym
4,755831
The only reasonable answer is that each damage type is halved individually, because the alternative means you have to lose track of what amount of damage of each type you're doing, and 5th Edition does not support damage that has multiple types (you can't do 'piercing and fire' damage or similar) or no type. You have to be able to attach a type to the damage dealt, and mixing different types of damage before halving it would obscure that information.
That is to say, if you add it all up and divide the total by 2 (to get 8/2 = 4 in your example), you've lost track of what damage type it is (or how much of the damage dealt is each type), and that's not allowed.
When the uncanny dodge is the only thing altering your damage total, it may not look like it makes much difference, but the answer to how to halve damage needs to continue to support other effects that depend on damage type. It would be unreasonable to use one algorithm when there's no relevant damage-type-related effects than when there are; the math should not change just because a later step does or does not exist.
By halving down each damage total individually -- the "(5 / 2) + (3 / 2) = 2 + 1 = 3" version -- it's clear what's what; you have 2 bludgeoning + 1 piercing, and if you need to further modify one of those totals, it's trivial to do so.
If you just say "okay that's half of 8, so 4 damage", you can't say how much of that 4 gets modified by type resistances or vulnerabilities after that point.
answered Aug 23 at 14:48
Darth Pseudonym
4,755831
edited Aug 24 at 14:29
answered Aug 23 at 14:48
Darth Pseudonym
4,755831
answered Aug 23 at 14:48
Darth Pseudonym
4,755831
answered Aug 23 at 14:48
Darth Pseudonym
4,755831
4,755831
1
Would you calculate it differently (for simplicity if nothing else) if it doesn't matter about the breakdown between damage types?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 14:59
Other than pure 'reasonableness', do you have anything else to support your answer? Examples showing why it's reasonable would help immensely.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 15:16
@PJRZ No, I'd still break up the damage and halve each part of it. Most of the time it won't make any difference, but if you get hit by, say, three Magic Missiles and had Resistance to Force damage, I'd halve the damage from each one individually, not add them all up and then divide by 2.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:38
1
@NathanS I expanded on it.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:55
1
@Reibello and Michael W., I added a little something to try to be clearer, but can you specify what you're looking for that I didn't already say? It's the only reasonable answer because you can't have multi-typed damage. I'm not sure how to 'back that up' beyond than the fact that it's just not something the system supports.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 18:06
 |Â
show 1 more comment
1
Would you calculate it differently (for simplicity if nothing else) if it doesn't matter about the breakdown between damage types?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 14:59
Other than pure 'reasonableness', do you have anything else to support your answer? Examples showing why it's reasonable would help immensely.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 15:16
@PJRZ No, I'd still break up the damage and halve each part of it. Most of the time it won't make any difference, but if you get hit by, say, three Magic Missiles and had Resistance to Force damage, I'd halve the damage from each one individually, not add them all up and then divide by 2.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:38
1
@NathanS I expanded on it.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:55
1
@Reibello and Michael W., I added a little something to try to be clearer, but can you specify what you're looking for that I didn't already say? It's the only reasonable answer because you can't have multi-typed damage. I'm not sure how to 'back that up' beyond than the fact that it's just not something the system supports.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 18:06
1
1
Would you calculate it differently (for simplicity if nothing else) if it doesn't matter about the breakdown between damage types?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 14:59
Would you calculate it differently (for simplicity if nothing else) if it doesn't matter about the breakdown between damage types?
– PJRZ
Aug 23 at 14:59
Other than pure 'reasonableness', do you have anything else to support your answer? Examples showing why it's reasonable would help immensely.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 15:16
Other than pure 'reasonableness', do you have anything else to support your answer? Examples showing why it's reasonable would help immensely.
– NautArch
Aug 23 at 15:16
@PJRZ No, I'd still break up the damage and halve each part of it. Most of the time it won't make any difference, but if you get hit by, say, three Magic Missiles and had Resistance to Force damage, I'd halve the damage from each one individually, not add them all up and then divide by 2.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:38
@PJRZ No, I'd still break up the damage and halve each part of it. Most of the time it won't make any difference, but if you get hit by, say, three Magic Missiles and had Resistance to Force damage, I'd halve the damage from each one individually, not add them all up and then divide by 2.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:38
1
1
@NathanS I expanded on it.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:55
@NathanS I expanded on it.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 15:55
1
1
@Reibello and Michael W., I added a little something to try to be clearer, but can you specify what you're looking for that I didn't already say? It's the only reasonable answer because you can't have multi-typed damage. I'm not sure how to 'back that up' beyond than the fact that it's just not something the system supports.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 18:06
@Reibello and Michael W., I added a little something to try to be clearer, but can you specify what you're looking for that I didn't already say? It's the only reasonable answer because you can't have multi-typed damage. I'm not sure how to 'back that up' beyond than the fact that it's just not something the system supports.
– Darth Pseudonym
Aug 23 at 18:06
 |Â
show 1 more comment
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