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Can Thrun, the Last Troll be exiled?
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So I've been playing commander for quite a while now I've been playing a green stompy deck. I have Thrun, the Last Troll. It says it cannot be countered and it cannot be a target of opponents spells or abilities so isn't spells like instant and sorceries? My friend say it can be exiled still; is he correct?
magic-the-gathering mtg-commander
edited Aug 24 at 17:02
murgatroid99♦
42.6k7101178
asked Aug 24 at 16:17
Malachi Welch
311
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
So I've been playing commander for quite a while now I've been playing a green stompy deck. I have Thrun, the Last Troll. It says it cannot be countered and it cannot be a target of opponents spells or abilities so isn't spells like instant and sorceries? My friend say it can be exiled still; is he correct?
magic-the-gathering mtg-commander
edited Aug 24 at 17:02
murgatroid99♦
42.6k7101178
asked Aug 24 at 16:17
Malachi Welch
311
3
What card/ability is your friend talking about using to exile it? Many things that would normally exile a creature can't be used; but other things still can.
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:25
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
So I've been playing commander for quite a while now I've been playing a green stompy deck. I have Thrun, the Last Troll. It says it cannot be countered and it cannot be a target of opponents spells or abilities so isn't spells like instant and sorceries? My friend say it can be exiled still; is he correct?
magic-the-gathering mtg-commander
edited Aug 24 at 17:02
murgatroid99♦
42.6k7101178
asked Aug 24 at 16:17
Malachi Welch
311
So I've been playing commander for quite a while now I've been playing a green stompy deck. I have Thrun, the Last Troll. It says it cannot be countered and it cannot be a target of opponents spells or abilities so isn't spells like instant and sorceries? My friend say it can be exiled still; is he correct?
magic-the-gathering mtg-commander
edited Aug 24 at 17:02
murgatroid99♦
42.6k7101178
asked Aug 24 at 16:17
Malachi Welch
311
edited Aug 24 at 17:02
murgatroid99♦
42.6k7101178
edited Aug 24 at 17:02
murgatroid99♦
42.6k7101178
edited Aug 24 at 17:02
murgatroid99♦
42.6k7101178
42.6k7101178
asked Aug 24 at 16:17
Malachi Welch
311
asked Aug 24 at 16:17
Malachi Welch
311
asked Aug 24 at 16:17
Malachi Welch
311
311
3
What card/ability is your friend talking about using to exile it? Many things that would normally exile a creature can't be used; but other things still can.
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:25
add a comment |Â
3
What card/ability is your friend talking about using to exile it? Many things that would normally exile a creature can't be used; but other things still can.
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:25
3
3
What card/ability is your friend talking about using to exile it? Many things that would normally exile a creature can't be used; but other things still can.
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:25
What card/ability is your friend talking about using to exile it? Many things that would normally exile a creature can't be used; but other things still can.
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:25
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
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up vote
15
down vote
Yes, Thrun can be exiled
Let's go through Thrun's abilities:
This spell can't be countered.
This ability affects Thrun while he's on the stack. It has no impact on him once he reaches the battlefield. Note that while Thrun is on the stack, he can still be exiled by effects such as Mindbreak Trap. This is because "exiling" a spell doesn't actually counter it; it simply moves the spell from the stack straight to the exile zone. It's also worth mentioning that Thrun's second ability, hexproof, only applies while he's on the battlefield, meaning that it doesn't prevent him from being targeted by spells such as Mindbreak Trap while he's on the stack.
Hexproof (This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)
This specifically protects Thrun from all targeted spells and abilities. Magic cards are written in such a way that all such abilities specifically include the word "target", such as "destroy target creature", or "exile target permanent". As a result, Thrun is protected from a spell like Murder, but will still die to a spell such as Wrath of God.
1G: Regenerate Thrun, the Last Troll.
Regeneration is an ability that creates a replacement effect when a creature would die due to damage, or be destroyed:
701.14a If the effect of a resolving spell or ability regenerates a permanent, it creates a replacement
effect that protects the permanent the next time it would be destroyed this turn. In this case,
“Regenerate [permanent]†means “The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn,
instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it’s an attacking or blocking creature,
remove it from combat.â€Â
701.14b If the effect of a static ability regenerates a permanent, it replaces destruction with an
alternate effect each time that permanent would be destroyed. In this case, “Regenerate
[permanent]†means “Instead remove all damage marked on [permanent] and tap it. If it’s an
attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat.â€Â
It has no impact on a creature that's being exiled.
Outside of these cases, Thrun can be interacted with just like any other creature, including exiling it with a non-targeted spell, such as Final Judgement.
answered Aug 24 at 16:43
Belgabad
67328
3
Maybe worth mentioning that something like Mindbreak Trap can still be used to get around "cannot be countered".
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:26
@GendoIkari that's an excellent point. Adding something now
– Belgabad
Aug 24 at 17:39
1
What I find most relevant about Mindbreak Trap is that hexproof doesn't do anything against it, since hexproof only works on the battlefield.
– ikegami
Aug 24 at 18:48
1
While not necessarily within scope of the question, I think it is worth mentioning Venser and Timestop as other "not counter but similar effect" cards. Not sure if there is a specific rule regarding effects like that. (Maybe not timestop as the official ruling is exile all spells on the stack?)
– Jake
Aug 24 at 19:39
It's worth mentioning that there are also ways to remove hexproof, like Arcane Lighthouse, Archetype of Endurance or Glaring Spotlight
– Andrew
Aug 27 at 14:23
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
15
down vote
Yes, Thrun can be exiled
Let's go through Thrun's abilities:
This spell can't be countered.
This ability affects Thrun while he's on the stack. It has no impact on him once he reaches the battlefield. Note that while Thrun is on the stack, he can still be exiled by effects such as Mindbreak Trap. This is because "exiling" a spell doesn't actually counter it; it simply moves the spell from the stack straight to the exile zone. It's also worth mentioning that Thrun's second ability, hexproof, only applies while he's on the battlefield, meaning that it doesn't prevent him from being targeted by spells such as Mindbreak Trap while he's on the stack.
Hexproof (This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)
This specifically protects Thrun from all targeted spells and abilities. Magic cards are written in such a way that all such abilities specifically include the word "target", such as "destroy target creature", or "exile target permanent". As a result, Thrun is protected from a spell like Murder, but will still die to a spell such as Wrath of God.
1G: Regenerate Thrun, the Last Troll.
Regeneration is an ability that creates a replacement effect when a creature would die due to damage, or be destroyed:
701.14a If the effect of a resolving spell or ability regenerates a permanent, it creates a replacement
effect that protects the permanent the next time it would be destroyed this turn. In this case,
“Regenerate [permanent]†means “The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn,
instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it’s an attacking or blocking creature,
remove it from combat.â€Â
701.14b If the effect of a static ability regenerates a permanent, it replaces destruction with an
alternate effect each time that permanent would be destroyed. In this case, “Regenerate
[permanent]†means “Instead remove all damage marked on [permanent] and tap it. If it’s an
attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat.â€Â
It has no impact on a creature that's being exiled.
Outside of these cases, Thrun can be interacted with just like any other creature, including exiling it with a non-targeted spell, such as Final Judgement.
answered Aug 24 at 16:43
Belgabad
67328
3
Maybe worth mentioning that something like Mindbreak Trap can still be used to get around "cannot be countered".
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:26
@GendoIkari that's an excellent point. Adding something now
– Belgabad
Aug 24 at 17:39
1
What I find most relevant about Mindbreak Trap is that hexproof doesn't do anything against it, since hexproof only works on the battlefield.
– ikegami
Aug 24 at 18:48
1
While not necessarily within scope of the question, I think it is worth mentioning Venser and Timestop as other "not counter but similar effect" cards. Not sure if there is a specific rule regarding effects like that. (Maybe not timestop as the official ruling is exile all spells on the stack?)
– Jake
Aug 24 at 19:39
It's worth mentioning that there are also ways to remove hexproof, like Arcane Lighthouse, Archetype of Endurance or Glaring Spotlight
– Andrew
Aug 27 at 14:23
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
Yes, Thrun can be exiled
Let's go through Thrun's abilities:
This spell can't be countered.
This ability affects Thrun while he's on the stack. It has no impact on him once he reaches the battlefield. Note that while Thrun is on the stack, he can still be exiled by effects such as Mindbreak Trap. This is because "exiling" a spell doesn't actually counter it; it simply moves the spell from the stack straight to the exile zone. It's also worth mentioning that Thrun's second ability, hexproof, only applies while he's on the battlefield, meaning that it doesn't prevent him from being targeted by spells such as Mindbreak Trap while he's on the stack.
Hexproof (This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)
This specifically protects Thrun from all targeted spells and abilities. Magic cards are written in such a way that all such abilities specifically include the word "target", such as "destroy target creature", or "exile target permanent". As a result, Thrun is protected from a spell like Murder, but will still die to a spell such as Wrath of God.
1G: Regenerate Thrun, the Last Troll.
Regeneration is an ability that creates a replacement effect when a creature would die due to damage, or be destroyed:
701.14a If the effect of a resolving spell or ability regenerates a permanent, it creates a replacement
effect that protects the permanent the next time it would be destroyed this turn. In this case,
“Regenerate [permanent]†means “The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn,
instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it’s an attacking or blocking creature,
remove it from combat.â€Â
701.14b If the effect of a static ability regenerates a permanent, it replaces destruction with an
alternate effect each time that permanent would be destroyed. In this case, “Regenerate
[permanent]†means “Instead remove all damage marked on [permanent] and tap it. If it’s an
attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat.â€Â
It has no impact on a creature that's being exiled.
Outside of these cases, Thrun can be interacted with just like any other creature, including exiling it with a non-targeted spell, such as Final Judgement.
answered Aug 24 at 16:43
Belgabad
67328
3
Maybe worth mentioning that something like Mindbreak Trap can still be used to get around "cannot be countered".
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:26
@GendoIkari that's an excellent point. Adding something now
– Belgabad
Aug 24 at 17:39
1
What I find most relevant about Mindbreak Trap is that hexproof doesn't do anything against it, since hexproof only works on the battlefield.
– ikegami
Aug 24 at 18:48
1
While not necessarily within scope of the question, I think it is worth mentioning Venser and Timestop as other "not counter but similar effect" cards. Not sure if there is a specific rule regarding effects like that. (Maybe not timestop as the official ruling is exile all spells on the stack?)
– Jake
Aug 24 at 19:39
It's worth mentioning that there are also ways to remove hexproof, like Arcane Lighthouse, Archetype of Endurance or Glaring Spotlight
– Andrew
Aug 27 at 14:23
add a comment |Â
up vote
15
down vote
up vote
15
down vote
Yes, Thrun can be exiled
Let's go through Thrun's abilities:
This spell can't be countered.
This ability affects Thrun while he's on the stack. It has no impact on him once he reaches the battlefield. Note that while Thrun is on the stack, he can still be exiled by effects such as Mindbreak Trap. This is because "exiling" a spell doesn't actually counter it; it simply moves the spell from the stack straight to the exile zone. It's also worth mentioning that Thrun's second ability, hexproof, only applies while he's on the battlefield, meaning that it doesn't prevent him from being targeted by spells such as Mindbreak Trap while he's on the stack.
Hexproof (This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)
This specifically protects Thrun from all targeted spells and abilities. Magic cards are written in such a way that all such abilities specifically include the word "target", such as "destroy target creature", or "exile target permanent". As a result, Thrun is protected from a spell like Murder, but will still die to a spell such as Wrath of God.
1G: Regenerate Thrun, the Last Troll.
Regeneration is an ability that creates a replacement effect when a creature would die due to damage, or be destroyed:
701.14a If the effect of a resolving spell or ability regenerates a permanent, it creates a replacement
effect that protects the permanent the next time it would be destroyed this turn. In this case,
“Regenerate [permanent]†means “The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn,
instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it’s an attacking or blocking creature,
remove it from combat.â€Â
701.14b If the effect of a static ability regenerates a permanent, it replaces destruction with an
alternate effect each time that permanent would be destroyed. In this case, “Regenerate
[permanent]†means “Instead remove all damage marked on [permanent] and tap it. If it’s an
attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat.â€Â
It has no impact on a creature that's being exiled.
Outside of these cases, Thrun can be interacted with just like any other creature, including exiling it with a non-targeted spell, such as Final Judgement.
answered Aug 24 at 16:43
Belgabad
67328
Yes, Thrun can be exiled
Let's go through Thrun's abilities:
This spell can't be countered.
This ability affects Thrun while he's on the stack. It has no impact on him once he reaches the battlefield. Note that while Thrun is on the stack, he can still be exiled by effects such as Mindbreak Trap. This is because "exiling" a spell doesn't actually counter it; it simply moves the spell from the stack straight to the exile zone. It's also worth mentioning that Thrun's second ability, hexproof, only applies while he's on the battlefield, meaning that it doesn't prevent him from being targeted by spells such as Mindbreak Trap while he's on the stack.
Hexproof (This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control.)
This specifically protects Thrun from all targeted spells and abilities. Magic cards are written in such a way that all such abilities specifically include the word "target", such as "destroy target creature", or "exile target permanent". As a result, Thrun is protected from a spell like Murder, but will still die to a spell such as Wrath of God.
1G: Regenerate Thrun, the Last Troll.
Regeneration is an ability that creates a replacement effect when a creature would die due to damage, or be destroyed:
701.14a If the effect of a resolving spell or ability regenerates a permanent, it creates a replacement
effect that protects the permanent the next time it would be destroyed this turn. In this case,
“Regenerate [permanent]†means “The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn,
instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it’s an attacking or blocking creature,
remove it from combat.â€Â
701.14b If the effect of a static ability regenerates a permanent, it replaces destruction with an
alternate effect each time that permanent would be destroyed. In this case, “Regenerate
[permanent]†means “Instead remove all damage marked on [permanent] and tap it. If it’s an
attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat.â€Â
It has no impact on a creature that's being exiled.
Outside of these cases, Thrun can be interacted with just like any other creature, including exiling it with a non-targeted spell, such as Final Judgement.
answered Aug 24 at 16:43
Belgabad
67328
edited Aug 24 at 19:00
answered Aug 24 at 16:43
Belgabad
67328
answered Aug 24 at 16:43
Belgabad
67328
answered Aug 24 at 16:43
Belgabad
67328
67328
3
Maybe worth mentioning that something like Mindbreak Trap can still be used to get around "cannot be countered".
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:26
@GendoIkari that's an excellent point. Adding something now
– Belgabad
Aug 24 at 17:39
1
What I find most relevant about Mindbreak Trap is that hexproof doesn't do anything against it, since hexproof only works on the battlefield.
– ikegami
Aug 24 at 18:48
1
While not necessarily within scope of the question, I think it is worth mentioning Venser and Timestop as other "not counter but similar effect" cards. Not sure if there is a specific rule regarding effects like that. (Maybe not timestop as the official ruling is exile all spells on the stack?)
– Jake
Aug 24 at 19:39
It's worth mentioning that there are also ways to remove hexproof, like Arcane Lighthouse, Archetype of Endurance or Glaring Spotlight
– Andrew
Aug 27 at 14:23
add a comment |Â
3
Maybe worth mentioning that something like Mindbreak Trap can still be used to get around "cannot be countered".
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:26
@GendoIkari that's an excellent point. Adding something now
– Belgabad
Aug 24 at 17:39
1
What I find most relevant about Mindbreak Trap is that hexproof doesn't do anything against it, since hexproof only works on the battlefield.
– ikegami
Aug 24 at 18:48
1
While not necessarily within scope of the question, I think it is worth mentioning Venser and Timestop as other "not counter but similar effect" cards. Not sure if there is a specific rule regarding effects like that. (Maybe not timestop as the official ruling is exile all spells on the stack?)
– Jake
Aug 24 at 19:39
It's worth mentioning that there are also ways to remove hexproof, like Arcane Lighthouse, Archetype of Endurance or Glaring Spotlight
– Andrew
Aug 27 at 14:23
3
3
Maybe worth mentioning that something like Mindbreak Trap can still be used to get around "cannot be countered".
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:26
Maybe worth mentioning that something like Mindbreak Trap can still be used to get around "cannot be countered".
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:26
@GendoIkari that's an excellent point. Adding something now
– Belgabad
Aug 24 at 17:39
@GendoIkari that's an excellent point. Adding something now
– Belgabad
Aug 24 at 17:39
1
1
What I find most relevant about Mindbreak Trap is that hexproof doesn't do anything against it, since hexproof only works on the battlefield.
– ikegami
Aug 24 at 18:48
What I find most relevant about Mindbreak Trap is that hexproof doesn't do anything against it, since hexproof only works on the battlefield.
– ikegami
Aug 24 at 18:48
1
1
While not necessarily within scope of the question, I think it is worth mentioning Venser and Timestop as other "not counter but similar effect" cards. Not sure if there is a specific rule regarding effects like that. (Maybe not timestop as the official ruling is exile all spells on the stack?)
– Jake
Aug 24 at 19:39
While not necessarily within scope of the question, I think it is worth mentioning Venser and Timestop as other "not counter but similar effect" cards. Not sure if there is a specific rule regarding effects like that. (Maybe not timestop as the official ruling is exile all spells on the stack?)
– Jake
Aug 24 at 19:39
It's worth mentioning that there are also ways to remove hexproof, like Arcane Lighthouse, Archetype of Endurance or Glaring Spotlight
– Andrew
Aug 27 at 14:23
It's worth mentioning that there are also ways to remove hexproof, like Arcane Lighthouse, Archetype of Endurance or Glaring Spotlight
– Andrew
Aug 27 at 14:23
add a comment |Â
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3
What card/ability is your friend talking about using to exile it? Many things that would normally exile a creature can't be used; but other things still can.
– GendoIkari
Aug 24 at 17:25