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How can I ask a coworker about their salary package?
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I may get a promotion in the upcoming month, and I want to know what sort of pay to expect or negotiate for. My senior colleague is in the same position I would be promoted to, and I would like to know what his pay package looks like for comparison.
What is a tactful way to approach my senior colleague about what his pay package is?
salary colleagues
edited Feb 25 '14 at 4:56
jmac
19.4k763137
asked Feb 25 '14 at 3:57
suhas
76111022
add a comment |Â
up vote
29
down vote
favorite
I may get a promotion in the upcoming month, and I want to know what sort of pay to expect or negotiate for. My senior colleague is in the same position I would be promoted to, and I would like to know what his pay package looks like for comparison.
What is a tactful way to approach my senior colleague about what his pay package is?
salary colleagues
edited Feb 25 '14 at 4:56
jmac
19.4k763137
asked Feb 25 '14 at 3:57
suhas
76111022
6
Hey shaan, and welcome to The Workplace. I am going to edit your post to make it a bit clearer. Feel free to edit yourself if you think I missed something important or this isn't what you mean to be asking.
– jmac
Feb 25 '14 at 4:43
1
@jmac thanks for editing as i am new to this site I think the post which i posted earlier wasnt good thanks for helping me to understand how to post a question here
– suhas
Feb 25 '14 at 4:52
2
@enderland Knowing someone similar's salary gives you a strong advantage in negotiations, because you know how far your employer expects to pay you. That's also why it's kept confidential. That and when everyone knows everyone else's salary, the only person happy with their salary is the one getting paid the most.
– Muz
Feb 25 '14 at 11:01
2
Most employers will have policies in place prohibiting this exact discussion
– happybuddha
Feb 26 '14 at 2:48
1
@happybuddha If they do, and they're in the US, they're breaking the law.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 27 '14 at 0:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
29
down vote
favorite
up vote
29
down vote
favorite
I may get a promotion in the upcoming month, and I want to know what sort of pay to expect or negotiate for. My senior colleague is in the same position I would be promoted to, and I would like to know what his pay package looks like for comparison.
What is a tactful way to approach my senior colleague about what his pay package is?
salary colleagues
edited Feb 25 '14 at 4:56
jmac
19.4k763137
asked Feb 25 '14 at 3:57
suhas
76111022
I may get a promotion in the upcoming month, and I want to know what sort of pay to expect or negotiate for. My senior colleague is in the same position I would be promoted to, and I would like to know what his pay package looks like for comparison.
What is a tactful way to approach my senior colleague about what his pay package is?
salary colleagues
edited Feb 25 '14 at 4:56
jmac
19.4k763137
asked Feb 25 '14 at 3:57
suhas
76111022
edited Feb 25 '14 at 4:56
jmac
19.4k763137
edited Feb 25 '14 at 4:56
jmac
19.4k763137
edited Feb 25 '14 at 4:56
jmac
19.4k763137
19.4k763137
asked Feb 25 '14 at 3:57
suhas
76111022
asked Feb 25 '14 at 3:57
suhas
76111022
asked Feb 25 '14 at 3:57
suhas
76111022
76111022
6
Hey shaan, and welcome to The Workplace. I am going to edit your post to make it a bit clearer. Feel free to edit yourself if you think I missed something important or this isn't what you mean to be asking.
– jmac
Feb 25 '14 at 4:43
1
@jmac thanks for editing as i am new to this site I think the post which i posted earlier wasnt good thanks for helping me to understand how to post a question here
– suhas
Feb 25 '14 at 4:52
2
@enderland Knowing someone similar's salary gives you a strong advantage in negotiations, because you know how far your employer expects to pay you. That's also why it's kept confidential. That and when everyone knows everyone else's salary, the only person happy with their salary is the one getting paid the most.
– Muz
Feb 25 '14 at 11:01
2
Most employers will have policies in place prohibiting this exact discussion
– happybuddha
Feb 26 '14 at 2:48
1
@happybuddha If they do, and they're in the US, they're breaking the law.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 27 '14 at 0:06
add a comment |Â
6
Hey shaan, and welcome to The Workplace. I am going to edit your post to make it a bit clearer. Feel free to edit yourself if you think I missed something important or this isn't what you mean to be asking.
– jmac
Feb 25 '14 at 4:43
1
@jmac thanks for editing as i am new to this site I think the post which i posted earlier wasnt good thanks for helping me to understand how to post a question here
– suhas
Feb 25 '14 at 4:52
2
@enderland Knowing someone similar's salary gives you a strong advantage in negotiations, because you know how far your employer expects to pay you. That's also why it's kept confidential. That and when everyone knows everyone else's salary, the only person happy with their salary is the one getting paid the most.
– Muz
Feb 25 '14 at 11:01
2
Most employers will have policies in place prohibiting this exact discussion
– happybuddha
Feb 26 '14 at 2:48
1
@happybuddha If they do, and they're in the US, they're breaking the law.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 27 '14 at 0:06
6
6
Hey shaan, and welcome to The Workplace. I am going to edit your post to make it a bit clearer. Feel free to edit yourself if you think I missed something important or this isn't what you mean to be asking.
– jmac
Feb 25 '14 at 4:43
Hey shaan, and welcome to The Workplace. I am going to edit your post to make it a bit clearer. Feel free to edit yourself if you think I missed something important or this isn't what you mean to be asking.
– jmac
Feb 25 '14 at 4:43
1
1
@jmac thanks for editing as i am new to this site I think the post which i posted earlier wasnt good thanks for helping me to understand how to post a question here
– suhas
Feb 25 '14 at 4:52
@jmac thanks for editing as i am new to this site I think the post which i posted earlier wasnt good thanks for helping me to understand how to post a question here
– suhas
Feb 25 '14 at 4:52
2
2
@enderland Knowing someone similar's salary gives you a strong advantage in negotiations, because you know how far your employer expects to pay you. That's also why it's kept confidential. That and when everyone knows everyone else's salary, the only person happy with their salary is the one getting paid the most.
– Muz
Feb 25 '14 at 11:01
@enderland Knowing someone similar's salary gives you a strong advantage in negotiations, because you know how far your employer expects to pay you. That's also why it's kept confidential. That and when everyone knows everyone else's salary, the only person happy with their salary is the one getting paid the most.
– Muz
Feb 25 '14 at 11:01
2
2
Most employers will have policies in place prohibiting this exact discussion
– happybuddha
Feb 26 '14 at 2:48
Most employers will have policies in place prohibiting this exact discussion
– happybuddha
Feb 26 '14 at 2:48
1
1
@happybuddha If they do, and they're in the US, they're breaking the law.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 27 '14 at 0:06
@happybuddha If they do, and they're in the US, they're breaking the law.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 27 '14 at 0:06
add a comment |Â
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
Ask him.
What would you consider it reasonable for me to be offered if I was
promoted to ....?
That way he can choose to tell you what he is getting if he wishes to, even if he does not tell you what he is getting now, he may tell you what he got when he first got promoted.
Also it may be better that you prove you can do the new job well before asking for lots of more money, your “market value†will not take into account the new job until you have been in it long enough for anther employer to believe in your new skills.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:15
Ian
1,19569
2
I believe this answer solves the actual problem: how to find out what to negotiate for with the promotion. The coworker's salary isn't the actual issue here, but if they have been where the OP is now, then they have the knowledge to advise on the situation.
– Brian S
Feb 25 '14 at 15:50
1
This would be my solution as well if I felt I needed input from someone else.
– Adam Davis
Feb 25 '14 at 19:46
add a comment |Â
up vote
24
down vote
This is in the realm of "use your empathy" - if you feel that being asked about your package would make you uncomfortable - don't do it.
Mileage will vary based on culture, friendship, and other norms. I've asked friends of mine what their packages are, so I could get a baseline for myself, but it's not an OK thing to ask to every random coworker in the US. I wouldn't feel comfortable asking the majority of my colleagues or anyone I consider a purely work acquaintance and not a friend.
If him asking him (or a similar relationship but in the reversed position - i.e. junior to you) would make you uncomfortable - live with the lack of knowledge. In the end, there really is no perfectly comparable situation - two people of the same rank are NOT the same person, and will offer different things to the company, which may make their salaries slightly different - so the best you'll get from a single colleague is a single datapoint.
Another option is that if this person is someone you'd consider to be a mentor, you may ask a more abstract question - "what salary should I expect as a starting senior engineer?" - means it's less personal and less specific, but also more reasonable to answer across many data points - I can answer that for my role without disclosing my particular salary.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 4:15
bethlakshmi
70.3k4136277
The last paragraph in particular. I've used that several times, and nobody's ever minded - and on top of that, add "What should I expect, and what is the upper end of a good Senior Engineer after 5 years in the position" or something like that. If the range is starting around 120k but maxes out at 130k, that's very different from starts at 110k adds 10k a year usually up to 160k.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:00
Good point. Ask me about how long people stay in senior or how raises work, and I can actually take on on a mathematical journey - companies have all sorts of crazy rules for this stuff.
– bethlakshmi
Feb 25 '14 at 22:38
@JoeStrazzere Strangely, the company that runs this site is completely equal, as the formulas for compensation are public and strictly adhered to (as far as I know).
– corsiKa
Feb 26 '14 at 0:07
add a comment |Â
up vote
14
down vote
Here is how you diplomatically determine your salary band in relation to others without anyone knowing the exact figure (unless you watch their faces).
It requires at least 3 people (A, B, C).
Each of you add a random value to your current salary.
A writes down their total and hands the paper to B.
B adds their total and gives the new total to C.
C adds their total and gives the new total to A.
A removes the random amount they originally added and passes the new total to B.
B does the same and hands to C.
C removes their random amount, then divides the value by 3.
You now have the average salary between the three of you.
That said, there is more to a persons role then their salary. So even if s/he is at the role you are moving into you also need to factor in their experience so far, other areas the work in you won't be doing, etc. So it is rare that salaries will equate 1:1.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 10:13
Simon O'Doherty
4,85111435
4
This solution is beautiful.
– Renan Gemignani
Feb 25 '14 at 17:28
2
Very cool ! Is there a name for thisalgorithm?
– user
Feb 25 '14 at 19:30
3
This is so convoluted as to be ridiculous, and as you know your own salary, you now know the average comp of the other two. And how did you know they did a good job negotiating their comp? They could still be on a salary scale based on when they started in the mail-room.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 21:39
@buffer I don't know if it has a name. It's actually one of those interview questions you can get (like how many piano tuners in ...).
– Simon O'Doherty
Feb 26 '14 at 4:38
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
In the USA, it's actually illegal for an employer to prohibit salary discussions amongst employees, according to section 7 of the National Labor Relations act. If that's your company's policy, and it is a US company, they are breaking the law. Here's 29 U.S. Code § 157 - Right of employees as to organization, collective bargaining, etc.:
Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or
assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through
representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other
concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other
mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain
from any or all of such activities except to the extent that such
right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor
organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 158
(a)(3) of this title.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/158
Regardless, your fellow employee may feel uncomfortable discussing their compensation. You can try to warm them up over a beer, but how do you know they even did a good job in negotiating their own compensation? Your best barometer for your worth to the firm is to talk to other people who might want to hire you, and see what they believe you are worth.
If they think you're incredibly more valuable in another firm than where you're at, I would suggest, for the good of our economy, which benefits from a proper allocation of valuable resources, that you consider taking the other offer in spite of the discomfort of leaving a firm to which you have grown accustomed.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 21:29
Aaron Hall
4,16312033
2
Thank you for that. I needed the reminder (I see this happening too often.)
– 2rs2ts
Feb 25 '14 at 22:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
First of all, be aware that some companies have very stringent policies that explicitly prohibit compensation discussions between employees. As in, it may be a fire-able offense (it was in every company I worked for).
Sources: [1], [2], [3] (which actually makes legal argument that such policies are tricky in terms of enforceability), [4] (again actually casting doubts on whetehr such policies are OK).
Second of all, if the company is reasonably large, check it out on GlassDoor. It has anonymous salary ranges for many jobs.
If your company doesn't expressly prohibit salary discussions, you can then approach your coworker with GlassDoor data (for your company, or a close competitor) and ask him if he thinks the range is reasonable. That way they don't have to divulge their own personal numbers but can still provide useful feedback to you.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:20
DVK
1,8921118
1
Good lord, I can't imagine that being legal. I would not work for a company like that.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:02
3
It may be fire-able, but to fire someone because of that would be illegal in the US. It's amazing that some employers (typically small businesses) are so ignorant about something that could cost them so much for screwing up. It might be feigned ignorance, if they think they can get away with it.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 22:11
1
Hey DVK, and welcome to The Workplace! Great first answer with a lot of great information and sources. Glad to have you here!
– jmac
Feb 26 '14 at 1:23
add a comment |Â
protected by jmort253♦ Feb 26 '14 at 7:03
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
Ask him.
What would you consider it reasonable for me to be offered if I was
promoted to ....?
That way he can choose to tell you what he is getting if he wishes to, even if he does not tell you what he is getting now, he may tell you what he got when he first got promoted.
Also it may be better that you prove you can do the new job well before asking for lots of more money, your “market value†will not take into account the new job until you have been in it long enough for anther employer to believe in your new skills.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:15
Ian
1,19569
2
I believe this answer solves the actual problem: how to find out what to negotiate for with the promotion. The coworker's salary isn't the actual issue here, but if they have been where the OP is now, then they have the knowledge to advise on the situation.
– Brian S
Feb 25 '14 at 15:50
1
This would be my solution as well if I felt I needed input from someone else.
– Adam Davis
Feb 25 '14 at 19:46
add a comment |Â
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
Ask him.
What would you consider it reasonable for me to be offered if I was
promoted to ....?
That way he can choose to tell you what he is getting if he wishes to, even if he does not tell you what he is getting now, he may tell you what he got when he first got promoted.
Also it may be better that you prove you can do the new job well before asking for lots of more money, your “market value†will not take into account the new job until you have been in it long enough for anther employer to believe in your new skills.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:15
Ian
1,19569
2
I believe this answer solves the actual problem: how to find out what to negotiate for with the promotion. The coworker's salary isn't the actual issue here, but if they have been where the OP is now, then they have the knowledge to advise on the situation.
– Brian S
Feb 25 '14 at 15:50
1
This would be my solution as well if I felt I needed input from someone else.
– Adam Davis
Feb 25 '14 at 19:46
add a comment |Â
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
up vote
24
down vote
accepted
Ask him.
What would you consider it reasonable for me to be offered if I was
promoted to ....?
That way he can choose to tell you what he is getting if he wishes to, even if he does not tell you what he is getting now, he may tell you what he got when he first got promoted.
Also it may be better that you prove you can do the new job well before asking for lots of more money, your “market value†will not take into account the new job until you have been in it long enough for anther employer to believe in your new skills.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:15
Ian
1,19569
Ask him.
What would you consider it reasonable for me to be offered if I was
promoted to ....?
That way he can choose to tell you what he is getting if he wishes to, even if he does not tell you what he is getting now, he may tell you what he got when he first got promoted.
Also it may be better that you prove you can do the new job well before asking for lots of more money, your “market value†will not take into account the new job until you have been in it long enough for anther employer to believe in your new skills.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:15
Ian
1,19569
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:15
Ian
1,19569
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:15
Ian
1,19569
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:15
Ian
1,19569
1,19569
2
I believe this answer solves the actual problem: how to find out what to negotiate for with the promotion. The coworker's salary isn't the actual issue here, but if they have been where the OP is now, then they have the knowledge to advise on the situation.
– Brian S
Feb 25 '14 at 15:50
1
This would be my solution as well if I felt I needed input from someone else.
– Adam Davis
Feb 25 '14 at 19:46
add a comment |Â
2
I believe this answer solves the actual problem: how to find out what to negotiate for with the promotion. The coworker's salary isn't the actual issue here, but if they have been where the OP is now, then they have the knowledge to advise on the situation.
– Brian S
Feb 25 '14 at 15:50
1
This would be my solution as well if I felt I needed input from someone else.
– Adam Davis
Feb 25 '14 at 19:46
2
2
I believe this answer solves the actual problem: how to find out what to negotiate for with the promotion. The coworker's salary isn't the actual issue here, but if they have been where the OP is now, then they have the knowledge to advise on the situation.
– Brian S
Feb 25 '14 at 15:50
I believe this answer solves the actual problem: how to find out what to negotiate for with the promotion. The coworker's salary isn't the actual issue here, but if they have been where the OP is now, then they have the knowledge to advise on the situation.
– Brian S
Feb 25 '14 at 15:50
1
1
This would be my solution as well if I felt I needed input from someone else.
– Adam Davis
Feb 25 '14 at 19:46
This would be my solution as well if I felt I needed input from someone else.
– Adam Davis
Feb 25 '14 at 19:46
add a comment |Â
up vote
24
down vote
This is in the realm of "use your empathy" - if you feel that being asked about your package would make you uncomfortable - don't do it.
Mileage will vary based on culture, friendship, and other norms. I've asked friends of mine what their packages are, so I could get a baseline for myself, but it's not an OK thing to ask to every random coworker in the US. I wouldn't feel comfortable asking the majority of my colleagues or anyone I consider a purely work acquaintance and not a friend.
If him asking him (or a similar relationship but in the reversed position - i.e. junior to you) would make you uncomfortable - live with the lack of knowledge. In the end, there really is no perfectly comparable situation - two people of the same rank are NOT the same person, and will offer different things to the company, which may make their salaries slightly different - so the best you'll get from a single colleague is a single datapoint.
Another option is that if this person is someone you'd consider to be a mentor, you may ask a more abstract question - "what salary should I expect as a starting senior engineer?" - means it's less personal and less specific, but also more reasonable to answer across many data points - I can answer that for my role without disclosing my particular salary.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 4:15
bethlakshmi
70.3k4136277
The last paragraph in particular. I've used that several times, and nobody's ever minded - and on top of that, add "What should I expect, and what is the upper end of a good Senior Engineer after 5 years in the position" or something like that. If the range is starting around 120k but maxes out at 130k, that's very different from starts at 110k adds 10k a year usually up to 160k.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:00
Good point. Ask me about how long people stay in senior or how raises work, and I can actually take on on a mathematical journey - companies have all sorts of crazy rules for this stuff.
– bethlakshmi
Feb 25 '14 at 22:38
@JoeStrazzere Strangely, the company that runs this site is completely equal, as the formulas for compensation are public and strictly adhered to (as far as I know).
– corsiKa
Feb 26 '14 at 0:07
add a comment |Â
up vote
24
down vote
This is in the realm of "use your empathy" - if you feel that being asked about your package would make you uncomfortable - don't do it.
Mileage will vary based on culture, friendship, and other norms. I've asked friends of mine what their packages are, so I could get a baseline for myself, but it's not an OK thing to ask to every random coworker in the US. I wouldn't feel comfortable asking the majority of my colleagues or anyone I consider a purely work acquaintance and not a friend.
If him asking him (or a similar relationship but in the reversed position - i.e. junior to you) would make you uncomfortable - live with the lack of knowledge. In the end, there really is no perfectly comparable situation - two people of the same rank are NOT the same person, and will offer different things to the company, which may make their salaries slightly different - so the best you'll get from a single colleague is a single datapoint.
Another option is that if this person is someone you'd consider to be a mentor, you may ask a more abstract question - "what salary should I expect as a starting senior engineer?" - means it's less personal and less specific, but also more reasonable to answer across many data points - I can answer that for my role without disclosing my particular salary.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 4:15
bethlakshmi
70.3k4136277
The last paragraph in particular. I've used that several times, and nobody's ever minded - and on top of that, add "What should I expect, and what is the upper end of a good Senior Engineer after 5 years in the position" or something like that. If the range is starting around 120k but maxes out at 130k, that's very different from starts at 110k adds 10k a year usually up to 160k.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:00
Good point. Ask me about how long people stay in senior or how raises work, and I can actually take on on a mathematical journey - companies have all sorts of crazy rules for this stuff.
– bethlakshmi
Feb 25 '14 at 22:38
@JoeStrazzere Strangely, the company that runs this site is completely equal, as the formulas for compensation are public and strictly adhered to (as far as I know).
– corsiKa
Feb 26 '14 at 0:07
add a comment |Â
up vote
24
down vote
up vote
24
down vote
This is in the realm of "use your empathy" - if you feel that being asked about your package would make you uncomfortable - don't do it.
Mileage will vary based on culture, friendship, and other norms. I've asked friends of mine what their packages are, so I could get a baseline for myself, but it's not an OK thing to ask to every random coworker in the US. I wouldn't feel comfortable asking the majority of my colleagues or anyone I consider a purely work acquaintance and not a friend.
If him asking him (or a similar relationship but in the reversed position - i.e. junior to you) would make you uncomfortable - live with the lack of knowledge. In the end, there really is no perfectly comparable situation - two people of the same rank are NOT the same person, and will offer different things to the company, which may make their salaries slightly different - so the best you'll get from a single colleague is a single datapoint.
Another option is that if this person is someone you'd consider to be a mentor, you may ask a more abstract question - "what salary should I expect as a starting senior engineer?" - means it's less personal and less specific, but also more reasonable to answer across many data points - I can answer that for my role without disclosing my particular salary.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 4:15
bethlakshmi
70.3k4136277
This is in the realm of "use your empathy" - if you feel that being asked about your package would make you uncomfortable - don't do it.
Mileage will vary based on culture, friendship, and other norms. I've asked friends of mine what their packages are, so I could get a baseline for myself, but it's not an OK thing to ask to every random coworker in the US. I wouldn't feel comfortable asking the majority of my colleagues or anyone I consider a purely work acquaintance and not a friend.
If him asking him (or a similar relationship but in the reversed position - i.e. junior to you) would make you uncomfortable - live with the lack of knowledge. In the end, there really is no perfectly comparable situation - two people of the same rank are NOT the same person, and will offer different things to the company, which may make their salaries slightly different - so the best you'll get from a single colleague is a single datapoint.
Another option is that if this person is someone you'd consider to be a mentor, you may ask a more abstract question - "what salary should I expect as a starting senior engineer?" - means it's less personal and less specific, but also more reasonable to answer across many data points - I can answer that for my role without disclosing my particular salary.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 4:15
bethlakshmi
70.3k4136277
edited Feb 25 '14 at 21:00
answered Feb 25 '14 at 4:15
bethlakshmi
70.3k4136277
answered Feb 25 '14 at 4:15
bethlakshmi
70.3k4136277
answered Feb 25 '14 at 4:15
bethlakshmi
70.3k4136277
70.3k4136277
The last paragraph in particular. I've used that several times, and nobody's ever minded - and on top of that, add "What should I expect, and what is the upper end of a good Senior Engineer after 5 years in the position" or something like that. If the range is starting around 120k but maxes out at 130k, that's very different from starts at 110k adds 10k a year usually up to 160k.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:00
Good point. Ask me about how long people stay in senior or how raises work, and I can actually take on on a mathematical journey - companies have all sorts of crazy rules for this stuff.
– bethlakshmi
Feb 25 '14 at 22:38
@JoeStrazzere Strangely, the company that runs this site is completely equal, as the formulas for compensation are public and strictly adhered to (as far as I know).
– corsiKa
Feb 26 '14 at 0:07
add a comment |Â
The last paragraph in particular. I've used that several times, and nobody's ever minded - and on top of that, add "What should I expect, and what is the upper end of a good Senior Engineer after 5 years in the position" or something like that. If the range is starting around 120k but maxes out at 130k, that's very different from starts at 110k adds 10k a year usually up to 160k.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:00
Good point. Ask me about how long people stay in senior or how raises work, and I can actually take on on a mathematical journey - companies have all sorts of crazy rules for this stuff.
– bethlakshmi
Feb 25 '14 at 22:38
@JoeStrazzere Strangely, the company that runs this site is completely equal, as the formulas for compensation are public and strictly adhered to (as far as I know).
– corsiKa
Feb 26 '14 at 0:07
The last paragraph in particular. I've used that several times, and nobody's ever minded - and on top of that, add "What should I expect, and what is the upper end of a good Senior Engineer after 5 years in the position" or something like that. If the range is starting around 120k but maxes out at 130k, that's very different from starts at 110k adds 10k a year usually up to 160k.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:00
The last paragraph in particular. I've used that several times, and nobody's ever minded - and on top of that, add "What should I expect, and what is the upper end of a good Senior Engineer after 5 years in the position" or something like that. If the range is starting around 120k but maxes out at 130k, that's very different from starts at 110k adds 10k a year usually up to 160k.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:00
Good point. Ask me about how long people stay in senior or how raises work, and I can actually take on on a mathematical journey - companies have all sorts of crazy rules for this stuff.
– bethlakshmi
Feb 25 '14 at 22:38
Good point. Ask me about how long people stay in senior or how raises work, and I can actually take on on a mathematical journey - companies have all sorts of crazy rules for this stuff.
– bethlakshmi
Feb 25 '14 at 22:38
@JoeStrazzere Strangely, the company that runs this site is completely equal, as the formulas for compensation are public and strictly adhered to (as far as I know).
– corsiKa
Feb 26 '14 at 0:07
@JoeStrazzere Strangely, the company that runs this site is completely equal, as the formulas for compensation are public and strictly adhered to (as far as I know).
– corsiKa
Feb 26 '14 at 0:07
add a comment |Â
up vote
14
down vote
Here is how you diplomatically determine your salary band in relation to others without anyone knowing the exact figure (unless you watch their faces).
It requires at least 3 people (A, B, C).
Each of you add a random value to your current salary.
A writes down their total and hands the paper to B.
B adds their total and gives the new total to C.
C adds their total and gives the new total to A.
A removes the random amount they originally added and passes the new total to B.
B does the same and hands to C.
C removes their random amount, then divides the value by 3.
You now have the average salary between the three of you.
That said, there is more to a persons role then their salary. So even if s/he is at the role you are moving into you also need to factor in their experience so far, other areas the work in you won't be doing, etc. So it is rare that salaries will equate 1:1.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 10:13
Simon O'Doherty
4,85111435
4
This solution is beautiful.
– Renan Gemignani
Feb 25 '14 at 17:28
2
Very cool ! Is there a name for thisalgorithm?
– user
Feb 25 '14 at 19:30
3
This is so convoluted as to be ridiculous, and as you know your own salary, you now know the average comp of the other two. And how did you know they did a good job negotiating their comp? They could still be on a salary scale based on when they started in the mail-room.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 21:39
@buffer I don't know if it has a name. It's actually one of those interview questions you can get (like how many piano tuners in ...).
– Simon O'Doherty
Feb 26 '14 at 4:38
add a comment |Â
up vote
14
down vote
Here is how you diplomatically determine your salary band in relation to others without anyone knowing the exact figure (unless you watch their faces).
It requires at least 3 people (A, B, C).
Each of you add a random value to your current salary.
A writes down their total and hands the paper to B.
B adds their total and gives the new total to C.
C adds their total and gives the new total to A.
A removes the random amount they originally added and passes the new total to B.
B does the same and hands to C.
C removes their random amount, then divides the value by 3.
You now have the average salary between the three of you.
That said, there is more to a persons role then their salary. So even if s/he is at the role you are moving into you also need to factor in their experience so far, other areas the work in you won't be doing, etc. So it is rare that salaries will equate 1:1.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 10:13
Simon O'Doherty
4,85111435
4
This solution is beautiful.
– Renan Gemignani
Feb 25 '14 at 17:28
2
Very cool ! Is there a name for thisalgorithm?
– user
Feb 25 '14 at 19:30
3
This is so convoluted as to be ridiculous, and as you know your own salary, you now know the average comp of the other two. And how did you know they did a good job negotiating their comp? They could still be on a salary scale based on when they started in the mail-room.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 21:39
@buffer I don't know if it has a name. It's actually one of those interview questions you can get (like how many piano tuners in ...).
– Simon O'Doherty
Feb 26 '14 at 4:38
add a comment |Â
up vote
14
down vote
up vote
14
down vote
Here is how you diplomatically determine your salary band in relation to others without anyone knowing the exact figure (unless you watch their faces).
It requires at least 3 people (A, B, C).
Each of you add a random value to your current salary.
A writes down their total and hands the paper to B.
B adds their total and gives the new total to C.
C adds their total and gives the new total to A.
A removes the random amount they originally added and passes the new total to B.
B does the same and hands to C.
C removes their random amount, then divides the value by 3.
You now have the average salary between the three of you.
That said, there is more to a persons role then their salary. So even if s/he is at the role you are moving into you also need to factor in their experience so far, other areas the work in you won't be doing, etc. So it is rare that salaries will equate 1:1.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 10:13
Simon O'Doherty
4,85111435
Here is how you diplomatically determine your salary band in relation to others without anyone knowing the exact figure (unless you watch their faces).
It requires at least 3 people (A, B, C).
Each of you add a random value to your current salary.
A writes down their total and hands the paper to B.
B adds their total and gives the new total to C.
C adds their total and gives the new total to A.
A removes the random amount they originally added and passes the new total to B.
B does the same and hands to C.
C removes their random amount, then divides the value by 3.
You now have the average salary between the three of you.
That said, there is more to a persons role then their salary. So even if s/he is at the role you are moving into you also need to factor in their experience so far, other areas the work in you won't be doing, etc. So it is rare that salaries will equate 1:1.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 10:13
Simon O'Doherty
4,85111435
edited Feb 25 '14 at 14:23
answered Feb 25 '14 at 10:13
Simon O'Doherty
4,85111435
answered Feb 25 '14 at 10:13
Simon O'Doherty
4,85111435
answered Feb 25 '14 at 10:13
Simon O'Doherty
4,85111435
4,85111435
4
This solution is beautiful.
– Renan Gemignani
Feb 25 '14 at 17:28
2
Very cool ! Is there a name for thisalgorithm?
– user
Feb 25 '14 at 19:30
3
This is so convoluted as to be ridiculous, and as you know your own salary, you now know the average comp of the other two. And how did you know they did a good job negotiating their comp? They could still be on a salary scale based on when they started in the mail-room.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 21:39
@buffer I don't know if it has a name. It's actually one of those interview questions you can get (like how many piano tuners in ...).
– Simon O'Doherty
Feb 26 '14 at 4:38
add a comment |Â
4
This solution is beautiful.
– Renan Gemignani
Feb 25 '14 at 17:28
2
Very cool ! Is there a name for thisalgorithm?
– user
Feb 25 '14 at 19:30
3
This is so convoluted as to be ridiculous, and as you know your own salary, you now know the average comp of the other two. And how did you know they did a good job negotiating their comp? They could still be on a salary scale based on when they started in the mail-room.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 21:39
@buffer I don't know if it has a name. It's actually one of those interview questions you can get (like how many piano tuners in ...).
– Simon O'Doherty
Feb 26 '14 at 4:38
4
4
This solution is beautiful.
– Renan Gemignani
Feb 25 '14 at 17:28
This solution is beautiful.
– Renan Gemignani
Feb 25 '14 at 17:28
2
2
Very cool ! Is there a name for this
algorithm ?– user
Feb 25 '14 at 19:30
Very cool ! Is there a name for this
algorithm ?– user
Feb 25 '14 at 19:30
3
3
This is so convoluted as to be ridiculous, and as you know your own salary, you now know the average comp of the other two. And how did you know they did a good job negotiating their comp? They could still be on a salary scale based on when they started in the mail-room.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 21:39
This is so convoluted as to be ridiculous, and as you know your own salary, you now know the average comp of the other two. And how did you know they did a good job negotiating their comp? They could still be on a salary scale based on when they started in the mail-room.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 21:39
@buffer I don't know if it has a name. It's actually one of those interview questions you can get (like how many piano tuners in ...).
– Simon O'Doherty
Feb 26 '14 at 4:38
@buffer I don't know if it has a name. It's actually one of those interview questions you can get (like how many piano tuners in ...).
– Simon O'Doherty
Feb 26 '14 at 4:38
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
In the USA, it's actually illegal for an employer to prohibit salary discussions amongst employees, according to section 7 of the National Labor Relations act. If that's your company's policy, and it is a US company, they are breaking the law. Here's 29 U.S. Code § 157 - Right of employees as to organization, collective bargaining, etc.:
Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or
assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through
representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other
concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other
mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain
from any or all of such activities except to the extent that such
right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor
organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 158
(a)(3) of this title.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/158
Regardless, your fellow employee may feel uncomfortable discussing their compensation. You can try to warm them up over a beer, but how do you know they even did a good job in negotiating their own compensation? Your best barometer for your worth to the firm is to talk to other people who might want to hire you, and see what they believe you are worth.
If they think you're incredibly more valuable in another firm than where you're at, I would suggest, for the good of our economy, which benefits from a proper allocation of valuable resources, that you consider taking the other offer in spite of the discomfort of leaving a firm to which you have grown accustomed.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 21:29
Aaron Hall
4,16312033
2
Thank you for that. I needed the reminder (I see this happening too often.)
– 2rs2ts
Feb 25 '14 at 22:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
In the USA, it's actually illegal for an employer to prohibit salary discussions amongst employees, according to section 7 of the National Labor Relations act. If that's your company's policy, and it is a US company, they are breaking the law. Here's 29 U.S. Code § 157 - Right of employees as to organization, collective bargaining, etc.:
Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or
assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through
representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other
concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other
mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain
from any or all of such activities except to the extent that such
right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor
organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 158
(a)(3) of this title.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/158
Regardless, your fellow employee may feel uncomfortable discussing their compensation. You can try to warm them up over a beer, but how do you know they even did a good job in negotiating their own compensation? Your best barometer for your worth to the firm is to talk to other people who might want to hire you, and see what they believe you are worth.
If they think you're incredibly more valuable in another firm than where you're at, I would suggest, for the good of our economy, which benefits from a proper allocation of valuable resources, that you consider taking the other offer in spite of the discomfort of leaving a firm to which you have grown accustomed.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 21:29
Aaron Hall
4,16312033
2
Thank you for that. I needed the reminder (I see this happening too often.)
– 2rs2ts
Feb 25 '14 at 22:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
up vote
11
down vote
In the USA, it's actually illegal for an employer to prohibit salary discussions amongst employees, according to section 7 of the National Labor Relations act. If that's your company's policy, and it is a US company, they are breaking the law. Here's 29 U.S. Code § 157 - Right of employees as to organization, collective bargaining, etc.:
Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or
assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through
representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other
concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other
mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain
from any or all of such activities except to the extent that such
right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor
organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 158
(a)(3) of this title.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/158
Regardless, your fellow employee may feel uncomfortable discussing their compensation. You can try to warm them up over a beer, but how do you know they even did a good job in negotiating their own compensation? Your best barometer for your worth to the firm is to talk to other people who might want to hire you, and see what they believe you are worth.
If they think you're incredibly more valuable in another firm than where you're at, I would suggest, for the good of our economy, which benefits from a proper allocation of valuable resources, that you consider taking the other offer in spite of the discomfort of leaving a firm to which you have grown accustomed.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 21:29
Aaron Hall
4,16312033
In the USA, it's actually illegal for an employer to prohibit salary discussions amongst employees, according to section 7 of the National Labor Relations act. If that's your company's policy, and it is a US company, they are breaking the law. Here's 29 U.S. Code § 157 - Right of employees as to organization, collective bargaining, etc.:
Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or
assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through
representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other
concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other
mutual aid or protection, and shall also have the right to refrain
from any or all of such activities except to the extent that such
right may be affected by an agreement requiring membership in a labor
organization as a condition of employment as authorized in section 158
(a)(3) of this title.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/29/158
Regardless, your fellow employee may feel uncomfortable discussing their compensation. You can try to warm them up over a beer, but how do you know they even did a good job in negotiating their own compensation? Your best barometer for your worth to the firm is to talk to other people who might want to hire you, and see what they believe you are worth.
If they think you're incredibly more valuable in another firm than where you're at, I would suggest, for the good of our economy, which benefits from a proper allocation of valuable resources, that you consider taking the other offer in spite of the discomfort of leaving a firm to which you have grown accustomed.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 21:29
Aaron Hall
4,16312033
edited Feb 25 '14 at 21:36
answered Feb 25 '14 at 21:29
Aaron Hall
4,16312033
answered Feb 25 '14 at 21:29
Aaron Hall
4,16312033
answered Feb 25 '14 at 21:29
Aaron Hall
4,16312033
4,16312033
2
Thank you for that. I needed the reminder (I see this happening too often.)
– 2rs2ts
Feb 25 '14 at 22:48
add a comment |Â
2
Thank you for that. I needed the reminder (I see this happening too often.)
– 2rs2ts
Feb 25 '14 at 22:48
2
2
Thank you for that. I needed the reminder (I see this happening too often.)
– 2rs2ts
Feb 25 '14 at 22:48
Thank you for that. I needed the reminder (I see this happening too often.)
– 2rs2ts
Feb 25 '14 at 22:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
First of all, be aware that some companies have very stringent policies that explicitly prohibit compensation discussions between employees. As in, it may be a fire-able offense (it was in every company I worked for).
Sources: [1], [2], [3] (which actually makes legal argument that such policies are tricky in terms of enforceability), [4] (again actually casting doubts on whetehr such policies are OK).
Second of all, if the company is reasonably large, check it out on GlassDoor. It has anonymous salary ranges for many jobs.
If your company doesn't expressly prohibit salary discussions, you can then approach your coworker with GlassDoor data (for your company, or a close competitor) and ask him if he thinks the range is reasonable. That way they don't have to divulge their own personal numbers but can still provide useful feedback to you.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:20
DVK
1,8921118
1
Good lord, I can't imagine that being legal. I would not work for a company like that.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:02
3
It may be fire-able, but to fire someone because of that would be illegal in the US. It's amazing that some employers (typically small businesses) are so ignorant about something that could cost them so much for screwing up. It might be feigned ignorance, if they think they can get away with it.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 22:11
1
Hey DVK, and welcome to The Workplace! Great first answer with a lot of great information and sources. Glad to have you here!
– jmac
Feb 26 '14 at 1:23
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
First of all, be aware that some companies have very stringent policies that explicitly prohibit compensation discussions between employees. As in, it may be a fire-able offense (it was in every company I worked for).
Sources: [1], [2], [3] (which actually makes legal argument that such policies are tricky in terms of enforceability), [4] (again actually casting doubts on whetehr such policies are OK).
Second of all, if the company is reasonably large, check it out on GlassDoor. It has anonymous salary ranges for many jobs.
If your company doesn't expressly prohibit salary discussions, you can then approach your coworker with GlassDoor data (for your company, or a close competitor) and ask him if he thinks the range is reasonable. That way they don't have to divulge their own personal numbers but can still provide useful feedback to you.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:20
DVK
1,8921118
1
Good lord, I can't imagine that being legal. I would not work for a company like that.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:02
3
It may be fire-able, but to fire someone because of that would be illegal in the US. It's amazing that some employers (typically small businesses) are so ignorant about something that could cost them so much for screwing up. It might be feigned ignorance, if they think they can get away with it.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 22:11
1
Hey DVK, and welcome to The Workplace! Great first answer with a lot of great information and sources. Glad to have you here!
– jmac
Feb 26 '14 at 1:23
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
First of all, be aware that some companies have very stringent policies that explicitly prohibit compensation discussions between employees. As in, it may be a fire-able offense (it was in every company I worked for).
Sources: [1], [2], [3] (which actually makes legal argument that such policies are tricky in terms of enforceability), [4] (again actually casting doubts on whetehr such policies are OK).
Second of all, if the company is reasonably large, check it out on GlassDoor. It has anonymous salary ranges for many jobs.
If your company doesn't expressly prohibit salary discussions, you can then approach your coworker with GlassDoor data (for your company, or a close competitor) and ask him if he thinks the range is reasonable. That way they don't have to divulge their own personal numbers but can still provide useful feedback to you.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:20
DVK
1,8921118
First of all, be aware that some companies have very stringent policies that explicitly prohibit compensation discussions between employees. As in, it may be a fire-able offense (it was in every company I worked for).
Sources: [1], [2], [3] (which actually makes legal argument that such policies are tricky in terms of enforceability), [4] (again actually casting doubts on whetehr such policies are OK).
Second of all, if the company is reasonably large, check it out on GlassDoor. It has anonymous salary ranges for many jobs.
If your company doesn't expressly prohibit salary discussions, you can then approach your coworker with GlassDoor data (for your company, or a close competitor) and ask him if he thinks the range is reasonable. That way they don't have to divulge their own personal numbers but can still provide useful feedback to you.
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:20
DVK
1,8921118
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:20
DVK
1,8921118
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:20
DVK
1,8921118
answered Feb 25 '14 at 15:20
DVK
1,8921118
1,8921118
1
Good lord, I can't imagine that being legal. I would not work for a company like that.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:02
3
It may be fire-able, but to fire someone because of that would be illegal in the US. It's amazing that some employers (typically small businesses) are so ignorant about something that could cost them so much for screwing up. It might be feigned ignorance, if they think they can get away with it.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 22:11
1
Hey DVK, and welcome to The Workplace! Great first answer with a lot of great information and sources. Glad to have you here!
– jmac
Feb 26 '14 at 1:23
add a comment |Â
1
Good lord, I can't imagine that being legal. I would not work for a company like that.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:02
3
It may be fire-able, but to fire someone because of that would be illegal in the US. It's amazing that some employers (typically small businesses) are so ignorant about something that could cost them so much for screwing up. It might be feigned ignorance, if they think they can get away with it.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 22:11
1
Hey DVK, and welcome to The Workplace! Great first answer with a lot of great information and sources. Glad to have you here!
– jmac
Feb 26 '14 at 1:23
1
1
Good lord, I can't imagine that being legal. I would not work for a company like that.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:02
Good lord, I can't imagine that being legal. I would not work for a company like that.
– Joe
Feb 25 '14 at 22:02
3
3
It may be fire-able, but to fire someone because of that would be illegal in the US. It's amazing that some employers (typically small businesses) are so ignorant about something that could cost them so much for screwing up. It might be feigned ignorance, if they think they can get away with it.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 22:11
It may be fire-able, but to fire someone because of that would be illegal in the US. It's amazing that some employers (typically small businesses) are so ignorant about something that could cost them so much for screwing up. It might be feigned ignorance, if they think they can get away with it.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 25 '14 at 22:11
1
1
Hey DVK, and welcome to The Workplace! Great first answer with a lot of great information and sources. Glad to have you here!
– jmac
Feb 26 '14 at 1:23
Hey DVK, and welcome to The Workplace! Great first answer with a lot of great information and sources. Glad to have you here!
– jmac
Feb 26 '14 at 1:23
add a comment |Â
protected by jmort253♦ Feb 26 '14 at 7:03
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
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6
Hey shaan, and welcome to The Workplace. I am going to edit your post to make it a bit clearer. Feel free to edit yourself if you think I missed something important or this isn't what you mean to be asking.
– jmac
Feb 25 '14 at 4:43
1
@jmac thanks for editing as i am new to this site I think the post which i posted earlier wasnt good thanks for helping me to understand how to post a question here
– suhas
Feb 25 '14 at 4:52
2
@enderland Knowing someone similar's salary gives you a strong advantage in negotiations, because you know how far your employer expects to pay you. That's also why it's kept confidential. That and when everyone knows everyone else's salary, the only person happy with their salary is the one getting paid the most.
– Muz
Feb 25 '14 at 11:01
2
Most employers will have policies in place prohibiting this exact discussion
– happybuddha
Feb 26 '14 at 2:48
1
@happybuddha If they do, and they're in the US, they're breaking the law.
– Aaron Hall
Feb 27 '14 at 0:06