How do base kets satisfy Schrödinger's equation in Schrödinger picture and why don't they evolve with time?

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According to Sakurai, eigenvalue equation for an operator $A$, $A|a'rangle=a'|a'rangle$. In the Schrödinger picture, $A$ does not change, so the base kets, obtained as the solutions to this eigenvalue equation at t=0, for instance, must remain unchanged.




  1. Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$ and is independent of t.



    Schrödinger equation
    $$ihbarfracpartial partial t=H|a',trangle,$$
    the LHS is zero and RHS is non-zero. Why is the Schrödinger equation not satisfied?




  2. Suppose $A$ commutes with $H$ (Hamiltonian).



    $A|a'rangle=a'|a'rangle$ and evolution operator is $U(t,0)=exp(-fraciHthbar)$



    $$UA|a'rangle=Ua'|a'rangle$$



    Since $H$ and $A$ commute, $U$ and $A$ also commute.



    $$AU|a'rangle=a'U|a'rangle$$



    So the eigenvalue remains same and eigenket is now $U|a'rangle$ and evolves with time, which reduces to $|a'rangle$ at t=0.



    So, I can conclude that base kets evolve with time when $A$ commutes with Hamiltonian. This has an additional advantage that Schrödinger Equation is now satisfied.



As stated in the book, the base kets do not change in the Schrödinger picture. Is this statement wrong in the above case?










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    According to Sakurai, eigenvalue equation for an operator $A$, $A|a'rangle=a'|a'rangle$. In the Schrödinger picture, $A$ does not change, so the base kets, obtained as the solutions to this eigenvalue equation at t=0, for instance, must remain unchanged.




    1. Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$ and is independent of t.



      Schrödinger equation
      $$ihbarfracpartial partial t=H|a',trangle,$$
      the LHS is zero and RHS is non-zero. Why is the Schrödinger equation not satisfied?




    2. Suppose $A$ commutes with $H$ (Hamiltonian).



      $A|a'rangle=a'|a'rangle$ and evolution operator is $U(t,0)=exp(-fraciHthbar)$



      $$UA|a'rangle=Ua'|a'rangle$$



      Since $H$ and $A$ commute, $U$ and $A$ also commute.



      $$AU|a'rangle=a'U|a'rangle$$



      So the eigenvalue remains same and eigenket is now $U|a'rangle$ and evolves with time, which reduces to $|a'rangle$ at t=0.



      So, I can conclude that base kets evolve with time when $A$ commutes with Hamiltonian. This has an additional advantage that Schrödinger Equation is now satisfied.



    As stated in the book, the base kets do not change in the Schrödinger picture. Is this statement wrong in the above case?










    share|cite|improve this question

























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite











      According to Sakurai, eigenvalue equation for an operator $A$, $A|a'rangle=a'|a'rangle$. In the Schrödinger picture, $A$ does not change, so the base kets, obtained as the solutions to this eigenvalue equation at t=0, for instance, must remain unchanged.




      1. Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$ and is independent of t.



        Schrödinger equation
        $$ihbarfracpartial partial t=H|a',trangle,$$
        the LHS is zero and RHS is non-zero. Why is the Schrödinger equation not satisfied?




      2. Suppose $A$ commutes with $H$ (Hamiltonian).



        $A|a'rangle=a'|a'rangle$ and evolution operator is $U(t,0)=exp(-fraciHthbar)$



        $$UA|a'rangle=Ua'|a'rangle$$



        Since $H$ and $A$ commute, $U$ and $A$ also commute.



        $$AU|a'rangle=a'U|a'rangle$$



        So the eigenvalue remains same and eigenket is now $U|a'rangle$ and evolves with time, which reduces to $|a'rangle$ at t=0.



        So, I can conclude that base kets evolve with time when $A$ commutes with Hamiltonian. This has an additional advantage that Schrödinger Equation is now satisfied.



      As stated in the book, the base kets do not change in the Schrödinger picture. Is this statement wrong in the above case?










      share|cite|improve this question















      According to Sakurai, eigenvalue equation for an operator $A$, $A|a'rangle=a'|a'rangle$. In the Schrödinger picture, $A$ does not change, so the base kets, obtained as the solutions to this eigenvalue equation at t=0, for instance, must remain unchanged.




      1. Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$ and is independent of t.



        Schrödinger equation
        $$ihbarfracpartial partial t=H|a',trangle,$$
        the LHS is zero and RHS is non-zero. Why is the Schrödinger equation not satisfied?




      2. Suppose $A$ commutes with $H$ (Hamiltonian).



        $A|a'rangle=a'|a'rangle$ and evolution operator is $U(t,0)=exp(-fraciHthbar)$



        $$UA|a'rangle=Ua'|a'rangle$$



        Since $H$ and $A$ commute, $U$ and $A$ also commute.



        $$AU|a'rangle=a'U|a'rangle$$



        So the eigenvalue remains same and eigenket is now $U|a'rangle$ and evolves with time, which reduces to $|a'rangle$ at t=0.



        So, I can conclude that base kets evolve with time when $A$ commutes with Hamiltonian. This has an additional advantage that Schrödinger Equation is now satisfied.



      As stated in the book, the base kets do not change in the Schrödinger picture. Is this statement wrong in the above case?







      quantum-mechanics operators hilbert-space schroedinger-equation time-evolution






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      edited 1 hour ago









      Qmechanic♦

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          Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$




          This is a misreading of that statement. When we say that the energy-eigenbasis kets of a time-independent hamiltonian to not evolve with time, what we mean is that if $H|Erangle = E|Erangle$ then
          $$
          |Psi_E(t)rangle = e^-iEt/hbar|Erangle
          $$

          is a solution of the Schrödinger equation, which starts off at $|Psi_E(0)rangle = |Erangle$ and which maintains a unit inner product with its initial condition,
          $$
          |langle Psi(0)|Psi(t)rangle| = |langle E |Psi(t)rangle| = 1.
          $$

          The phase factor $e^-iEt/hbar$ is absolutely crucial for the Schrödinger equation to be satisfied. On the other hand, at any given time $t$ it acts as a global phase factor, which is irrelevant for any physical observable, which is why it is justified to say that the base ket does not 'really' evolve with time.




          For your second question, your initial manipulations are correct, and they are best understood in the form
          $$
          A U|arangle = U A|arangle = U a|arangle = a U|arangle
          $$

          (where I've dropped the primes, to $A|arangle = a|arangle$, because yours didn't make any sense). In other words, if you start off in an eigenvector $|arangle$ of $A$ with eigenvalue $a$ and $A$ commutes with $H$, then the time-evolved state $U(t)|arangle$ will always be an eigenstate of $A$.



          Now, if you know that $A$ is non-degenerate on that eigenspace, then that combination allows you to conclude that $|arangle$ is also an eigenstate of $H$ and the time evolution will keep $U(t)|arangle$ as a multiple of $|arangle$.



          On the other hand, it is perfectly possible for $A$ to have a degenerate eigenspace there, in which case $U(t)|arangle$ can have a nontrivial time dependence. If you want an explicit example, try
          $$
          A = beginpmatrix 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 1 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 2 endpmatrix
          textunder
          H = beginpmatrix 0 & 1 & 0 \ 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 3 endpmatrix
          $$

          with $|arangle = (1,0,0)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer



























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            I think there is a lot of confusion in what you wrote. The Schrodinger equation is satisfied,of course not by the eigenkets themselves, but by the expansion coefficients of any state expanded on the basis of eigenkets. The eigenkets are defined as being time independent exactly because, for a general state, the time dependence of each expansion coefficient on the eigenket basis is really simple. To make this clear, for any state $|psirangle$, take a complete set of eigenkets $(|a_1rangle,|a_2rangle,|a_3rangle,...)$, then the state $|psirangle$ can be expressed as:
            $$|psirangle=sum_n c_n(t)*|a_nrangle$$



            So $|psirangle$ is actually $|psi(t)rangle$, and it does satisfy Schrodingers equation. So if the $|a_nrangle$ are the eigenkets of the Hamiltonian, then the time dependence of the expansion coefficients is just the usual $e^-ifrac E_nhbart$, and the expansion of the state is just:
            $$|psi(t)rangle=sum_n c_n(0)*e^-ifrac E_nhbart*|a_nrangle$$






            share|cite|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Hugo V is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.
























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              Only kets that represent physical systems ("state vectors") satisfy the Schrodinger equation. Basis kets don't represent physical systems, but just a system of coordinates, so they don't.



              Your question is analogous to asking why the coordinates of a random point in space don't satisfy Hamilton's or the Euler-Lagrange equations. There's just nothing there to time-evolve.






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                3 Answers
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                oldest

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                3 Answers
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                active

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                up vote
                2
                down vote














                Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$




                This is a misreading of that statement. When we say that the energy-eigenbasis kets of a time-independent hamiltonian to not evolve with time, what we mean is that if $H|Erangle = E|Erangle$ then
                $$
                |Psi_E(t)rangle = e^-iEt/hbar|Erangle
                $$

                is a solution of the Schrödinger equation, which starts off at $|Psi_E(0)rangle = |Erangle$ and which maintains a unit inner product with its initial condition,
                $$
                |langle Psi(0)|Psi(t)rangle| = |langle E |Psi(t)rangle| = 1.
                $$

                The phase factor $e^-iEt/hbar$ is absolutely crucial for the Schrödinger equation to be satisfied. On the other hand, at any given time $t$ it acts as a global phase factor, which is irrelevant for any physical observable, which is why it is justified to say that the base ket does not 'really' evolve with time.




                For your second question, your initial manipulations are correct, and they are best understood in the form
                $$
                A U|arangle = U A|arangle = U a|arangle = a U|arangle
                $$

                (where I've dropped the primes, to $A|arangle = a|arangle$, because yours didn't make any sense). In other words, if you start off in an eigenvector $|arangle$ of $A$ with eigenvalue $a$ and $A$ commutes with $H$, then the time-evolved state $U(t)|arangle$ will always be an eigenstate of $A$.



                Now, if you know that $A$ is non-degenerate on that eigenspace, then that combination allows you to conclude that $|arangle$ is also an eigenstate of $H$ and the time evolution will keep $U(t)|arangle$ as a multiple of $|arangle$.



                On the other hand, it is perfectly possible for $A$ to have a degenerate eigenspace there, in which case $U(t)|arangle$ can have a nontrivial time dependence. If you want an explicit example, try
                $$
                A = beginpmatrix 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 1 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 2 endpmatrix
                textunder
                H = beginpmatrix 0 & 1 & 0 \ 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 3 endpmatrix
                $$

                with $|arangle = (1,0,0)$.






                share|cite|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote














                  Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$




                  This is a misreading of that statement. When we say that the energy-eigenbasis kets of a time-independent hamiltonian to not evolve with time, what we mean is that if $H|Erangle = E|Erangle$ then
                  $$
                  |Psi_E(t)rangle = e^-iEt/hbar|Erangle
                  $$

                  is a solution of the Schrödinger equation, which starts off at $|Psi_E(0)rangle = |Erangle$ and which maintains a unit inner product with its initial condition,
                  $$
                  |langle Psi(0)|Psi(t)rangle| = |langle E |Psi(t)rangle| = 1.
                  $$

                  The phase factor $e^-iEt/hbar$ is absolutely crucial for the Schrödinger equation to be satisfied. On the other hand, at any given time $t$ it acts as a global phase factor, which is irrelevant for any physical observable, which is why it is justified to say that the base ket does not 'really' evolve with time.




                  For your second question, your initial manipulations are correct, and they are best understood in the form
                  $$
                  A U|arangle = U A|arangle = U a|arangle = a U|arangle
                  $$

                  (where I've dropped the primes, to $A|arangle = a|arangle$, because yours didn't make any sense). In other words, if you start off in an eigenvector $|arangle$ of $A$ with eigenvalue $a$ and $A$ commutes with $H$, then the time-evolved state $U(t)|arangle$ will always be an eigenstate of $A$.



                  Now, if you know that $A$ is non-degenerate on that eigenspace, then that combination allows you to conclude that $|arangle$ is also an eigenstate of $H$ and the time evolution will keep $U(t)|arangle$ as a multiple of $|arangle$.



                  On the other hand, it is perfectly possible for $A$ to have a degenerate eigenspace there, in which case $U(t)|arangle$ can have a nontrivial time dependence. If you want an explicit example, try
                  $$
                  A = beginpmatrix 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 1 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 2 endpmatrix
                  textunder
                  H = beginpmatrix 0 & 1 & 0 \ 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 3 endpmatrix
                  $$

                  with $|arangle = (1,0,0)$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer






















                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote










                    Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$




                    This is a misreading of that statement. When we say that the energy-eigenbasis kets of a time-independent hamiltonian to not evolve with time, what we mean is that if $H|Erangle = E|Erangle$ then
                    $$
                    |Psi_E(t)rangle = e^-iEt/hbar|Erangle
                    $$

                    is a solution of the Schrödinger equation, which starts off at $|Psi_E(0)rangle = |Erangle$ and which maintains a unit inner product with its initial condition,
                    $$
                    |langle Psi(0)|Psi(t)rangle| = |langle E |Psi(t)rangle| = 1.
                    $$

                    The phase factor $e^-iEt/hbar$ is absolutely crucial for the Schrödinger equation to be satisfied. On the other hand, at any given time $t$ it acts as a global phase factor, which is irrelevant for any physical observable, which is why it is justified to say that the base ket does not 'really' evolve with time.




                    For your second question, your initial manipulations are correct, and they are best understood in the form
                    $$
                    A U|arangle = U A|arangle = U a|arangle = a U|arangle
                    $$

                    (where I've dropped the primes, to $A|arangle = a|arangle$, because yours didn't make any sense). In other words, if you start off in an eigenvector $|arangle$ of $A$ with eigenvalue $a$ and $A$ commutes with $H$, then the time-evolved state $U(t)|arangle$ will always be an eigenstate of $A$.



                    Now, if you know that $A$ is non-degenerate on that eigenspace, then that combination allows you to conclude that $|arangle$ is also an eigenstate of $H$ and the time evolution will keep $U(t)|arangle$ as a multiple of $|arangle$.



                    On the other hand, it is perfectly possible for $A$ to have a degenerate eigenspace there, in which case $U(t)|arangle$ can have a nontrivial time dependence. If you want an explicit example, try
                    $$
                    A = beginpmatrix 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 1 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 2 endpmatrix
                    textunder
                    H = beginpmatrix 0 & 1 & 0 \ 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 3 endpmatrix
                    $$

                    with $|arangle = (1,0,0)$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer













                    Since base kets do not evolve with time $|a',trangle=|a'rangle$




                    This is a misreading of that statement. When we say that the energy-eigenbasis kets of a time-independent hamiltonian to not evolve with time, what we mean is that if $H|Erangle = E|Erangle$ then
                    $$
                    |Psi_E(t)rangle = e^-iEt/hbar|Erangle
                    $$

                    is a solution of the Schrödinger equation, which starts off at $|Psi_E(0)rangle = |Erangle$ and which maintains a unit inner product with its initial condition,
                    $$
                    |langle Psi(0)|Psi(t)rangle| = |langle E |Psi(t)rangle| = 1.
                    $$

                    The phase factor $e^-iEt/hbar$ is absolutely crucial for the Schrödinger equation to be satisfied. On the other hand, at any given time $t$ it acts as a global phase factor, which is irrelevant for any physical observable, which is why it is justified to say that the base ket does not 'really' evolve with time.




                    For your second question, your initial manipulations are correct, and they are best understood in the form
                    $$
                    A U|arangle = U A|arangle = U a|arangle = a U|arangle
                    $$

                    (where I've dropped the primes, to $A|arangle = a|arangle$, because yours didn't make any sense). In other words, if you start off in an eigenvector $|arangle$ of $A$ with eigenvalue $a$ and $A$ commutes with $H$, then the time-evolved state $U(t)|arangle$ will always be an eigenstate of $A$.



                    Now, if you know that $A$ is non-degenerate on that eigenspace, then that combination allows you to conclude that $|arangle$ is also an eigenstate of $H$ and the time evolution will keep $U(t)|arangle$ as a multiple of $|arangle$.



                    On the other hand, it is perfectly possible for $A$ to have a degenerate eigenspace there, in which case $U(t)|arangle$ can have a nontrivial time dependence. If you want an explicit example, try
                    $$
                    A = beginpmatrix 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 1 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 2 endpmatrix
                    textunder
                    H = beginpmatrix 0 & 1 & 0 \ 1 & 0 & 0 \ 0 & 0 & 3 endpmatrix
                    $$

                    with $|arangle = (1,0,0)$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












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                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered 1 hour ago









                    Emilio Pisanty

                    78.5k21187385




                    78.5k21187385




















                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        I think there is a lot of confusion in what you wrote. The Schrodinger equation is satisfied,of course not by the eigenkets themselves, but by the expansion coefficients of any state expanded on the basis of eigenkets. The eigenkets are defined as being time independent exactly because, for a general state, the time dependence of each expansion coefficient on the eigenket basis is really simple. To make this clear, for any state $|psirangle$, take a complete set of eigenkets $(|a_1rangle,|a_2rangle,|a_3rangle,...)$, then the state $|psirangle$ can be expressed as:
                        $$|psirangle=sum_n c_n(t)*|a_nrangle$$



                        So $|psirangle$ is actually $|psi(t)rangle$, and it does satisfy Schrodingers equation. So if the $|a_nrangle$ are the eigenkets of the Hamiltonian, then the time dependence of the expansion coefficients is just the usual $e^-ifrac E_nhbart$, and the expansion of the state is just:
                        $$|psi(t)rangle=sum_n c_n(0)*e^-ifrac E_nhbart*|a_nrangle$$






                        share|cite|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Hugo V is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          I think there is a lot of confusion in what you wrote. The Schrodinger equation is satisfied,of course not by the eigenkets themselves, but by the expansion coefficients of any state expanded on the basis of eigenkets. The eigenkets are defined as being time independent exactly because, for a general state, the time dependence of each expansion coefficient on the eigenket basis is really simple. To make this clear, for any state $|psirangle$, take a complete set of eigenkets $(|a_1rangle,|a_2rangle,|a_3rangle,...)$, then the state $|psirangle$ can be expressed as:
                          $$|psirangle=sum_n c_n(t)*|a_nrangle$$



                          So $|psirangle$ is actually $|psi(t)rangle$, and it does satisfy Schrodingers equation. So if the $|a_nrangle$ are the eigenkets of the Hamiltonian, then the time dependence of the expansion coefficients is just the usual $e^-ifrac E_nhbart$, and the expansion of the state is just:
                          $$|psi(t)rangle=sum_n c_n(0)*e^-ifrac E_nhbart*|a_nrangle$$






                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          Hugo V is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.



















                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote









                            I think there is a lot of confusion in what you wrote. The Schrodinger equation is satisfied,of course not by the eigenkets themselves, but by the expansion coefficients of any state expanded on the basis of eigenkets. The eigenkets are defined as being time independent exactly because, for a general state, the time dependence of each expansion coefficient on the eigenket basis is really simple. To make this clear, for any state $|psirangle$, take a complete set of eigenkets $(|a_1rangle,|a_2rangle,|a_3rangle,...)$, then the state $|psirangle$ can be expressed as:
                            $$|psirangle=sum_n c_n(t)*|a_nrangle$$



                            So $|psirangle$ is actually $|psi(t)rangle$, and it does satisfy Schrodingers equation. So if the $|a_nrangle$ are the eigenkets of the Hamiltonian, then the time dependence of the expansion coefficients is just the usual $e^-ifrac E_nhbart$, and the expansion of the state is just:
                            $$|psi(t)rangle=sum_n c_n(0)*e^-ifrac E_nhbart*|a_nrangle$$






                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            Hugo V is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.









                            I think there is a lot of confusion in what you wrote. The Schrodinger equation is satisfied,of course not by the eigenkets themselves, but by the expansion coefficients of any state expanded on the basis of eigenkets. The eigenkets are defined as being time independent exactly because, for a general state, the time dependence of each expansion coefficient on the eigenket basis is really simple. To make this clear, for any state $|psirangle$, take a complete set of eigenkets $(|a_1rangle,|a_2rangle,|a_3rangle,...)$, then the state $|psirangle$ can be expressed as:
                            $$|psirangle=sum_n c_n(t)*|a_nrangle$$



                            So $|psirangle$ is actually $|psi(t)rangle$, and it does satisfy Schrodingers equation. So if the $|a_nrangle$ are the eigenkets of the Hamiltonian, then the time dependence of the expansion coefficients is just the usual $e^-ifrac E_nhbart$, and the expansion of the state is just:
                            $$|psi(t)rangle=sum_n c_n(0)*e^-ifrac E_nhbart*|a_nrangle$$







                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            Hugo V is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.









                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer






                            New contributor




                            Hugo V is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.









                            answered 1 hour ago









                            Hugo V

                            1436




                            1436




                            New contributor




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                            New contributor





                            Hugo V is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                            Hugo V is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                up vote
                                1
                                down vote













                                Only kets that represent physical systems ("state vectors") satisfy the Schrodinger equation. Basis kets don't represent physical systems, but just a system of coordinates, so they don't.



                                Your question is analogous to asking why the coordinates of a random point in space don't satisfy Hamilton's or the Euler-Lagrange equations. There's just nothing there to time-evolve.






                                share|cite|improve this answer
























                                  up vote
                                  1
                                  down vote













                                  Only kets that represent physical systems ("state vectors") satisfy the Schrodinger equation. Basis kets don't represent physical systems, but just a system of coordinates, so they don't.



                                  Your question is analogous to asking why the coordinates of a random point in space don't satisfy Hamilton's or the Euler-Lagrange equations. There's just nothing there to time-evolve.






                                  share|cite|improve this answer






















                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote









                                    Only kets that represent physical systems ("state vectors") satisfy the Schrodinger equation. Basis kets don't represent physical systems, but just a system of coordinates, so they don't.



                                    Your question is analogous to asking why the coordinates of a random point in space don't satisfy Hamilton's or the Euler-Lagrange equations. There's just nothing there to time-evolve.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer












                                    Only kets that represent physical systems ("state vectors") satisfy the Schrodinger equation. Basis kets don't represent physical systems, but just a system of coordinates, so they don't.



                                    Your question is analogous to asking why the coordinates of a random point in space don't satisfy Hamilton's or the Euler-Lagrange equations. There's just nothing there to time-evolve.







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                                    answered 1 hour ago









                                    tparker

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