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In what way was Bronn's sword fight against Ser Vardis without honor?
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In Season 1 Episode 5, A Golden Crown, Bronn fights Ser Vardis of the Vale as Tyrion's champion in a trial by combat.
Bronn Wins
Lysa Arryn: You don't fight with honor.
Bronn: No. He did. nods head towards the rapidly descending Ser Vardis
What am I missing here? What was dishonorable about Bronn's fight?
game-of-thrones
edited Aug 18 at 11:56
lfurini
3,38922133
asked Aug 18 at 6:56
Jolenealaska
1,7981838
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
In Season 1 Episode 5, A Golden Crown, Bronn fights Ser Vardis of the Vale as Tyrion's champion in a trial by combat.
Bronn Wins
Lysa Arryn: You don't fight with honor.
Bronn: No. He did. nods head towards the rapidly descending Ser Vardis
What am I missing here? What was dishonorable about Bronn's fight?
game-of-thrones
edited Aug 18 at 11:56
lfurini
3,38922133
asked Aug 18 at 6:56
Jolenealaska
1,7981838
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
In Season 1 Episode 5, A Golden Crown, Bronn fights Ser Vardis of the Vale as Tyrion's champion in a trial by combat.
Bronn Wins
Lysa Arryn: You don't fight with honor.
Bronn: No. He did. nods head towards the rapidly descending Ser Vardis
What am I missing here? What was dishonorable about Bronn's fight?
game-of-thrones
edited Aug 18 at 11:56
lfurini
3,38922133
asked Aug 18 at 6:56
Jolenealaska
1,7981838
In Season 1 Episode 5, A Golden Crown, Bronn fights Ser Vardis of the Vale as Tyrion's champion in a trial by combat.
Bronn Wins
Lysa Arryn: You don't fight with honor.
Bronn: No. He did. nods head towards the rapidly descending Ser Vardis
What am I missing here? What was dishonorable about Bronn's fight?
game-of-thrones
edited Aug 18 at 11:56
lfurini
3,38922133
asked Aug 18 at 6:56
Jolenealaska
1,7981838
edited Aug 18 at 11:56
lfurini
3,38922133
edited Aug 18 at 11:56
lfurini
3,38922133
edited Aug 18 at 11:56
lfurini
3,38922133
3,38922133
asked Aug 18 at 6:56
Jolenealaska
1,7981838
asked Aug 18 at 6:56
Jolenealaska
1,7981838
asked Aug 18 at 6:56
Jolenealaska
1,7981838
1,7981838
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
12
down vote
He didn’t fight “traditionallyâ€Â
The traditional duel is probably what you see in films and at re-enactment tournaments all the time. Two knights sparring, one attacks the other defends and then counter attacks and this goes on until one wins. Bronn clearly wasn’t doing that: he was running around, retreating and goading Vardis.
He uses other “thingsâ€Â
During the duel he knocks over objects to gain a small advantage and this is clearly not how he is meant to fight. He also gets the on lookers involved by moving between them and even throwing someone into the mix.
He doesn’t stay in the “arenaâ€Â
Duels are generally supposed to take place in their dedicated area and not go outside of it i.e. The Mountian and The Viper. Bronn did not stay in the arena during the fight.
Stand and fight, coward!
Lysa refers to Bronn’s tactics as cowardice but how she words them makes it appear as though the above are in play too. After Bronn hops off the staircase Lysa screams.
Stand and fight, coward!
edited Aug 18 at 8:56
ApproachingDarknessFish
10.4k75380
answered Aug 18 at 7:40
TheLethalCarrot
31k13176217
On my phone right now and I have a busy weekend but will update with quotes and references when I can.
– TheLethalCarrot
Aug 18 at 7:41
7
I took the liberty of fixing some typos. Impressively, your phone managed to autocorrect "Bronn" to 3 different wrong things.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 8:57
2
@ApproachingDarknessFish autocorrect is context-dependent nowadays
– FooBar
Aug 18 at 16:26
add a comment |Â
up vote
10
down vote
I can see two things that might be regarded as dishonourable:
- Bronn spends much of the fight dodging and retreating in order to tire out Ser Vardis. It might be expected that a formal duel would involve more swordplay. Bronn is accused of cowardice for this by Lysa Arryn, although it is of course a sensible strategy when fighting a better swordsman when your opponent is the only one wearing plate.
- The final attack is probably the most significant issue though. An honourable opponent would have allowed Ser Vardis to rise to his feet before continuing the duel. Bronn did not offer him that chance.
edited Aug 18 at 11:59
lfurini
3,38922133
answered Aug 18 at 7:04
Christi
6,7182851
In addition to tiring out his opponent, I saw Bronn's constant retreating at an attempt to lure Ser Vardis into a false sense of security. Look at the (presumably exaggerated, if not faked) fear in his face.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 7:08
1
It's certainly a possibility, but I think it's entirely possible Bronn was scared out of his wits. He has a very realistic approach to life, and must have known that his odds against a trained champion weren't all that great.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 7:10
8
@christi Bronn would not have fought if he did not think he could win, not even if Tyrion offered him all the gold in Casterly Rock. What good is gold to a corpse?
– Revenant
Aug 18 at 7:37
1
True, but Bronn is absolutely a calculating bastard. I think he knew what he was doing was very risky but did it anyway, possibly because Tyrion's fate if he failed to intervent did not sit well with him or possibly because he saw the possibility that he could gain great favour by saving a Lannister - maybe a bit of both. Bron must have believed he could win, but it's likely that he recognised this as the gamble it was, I think.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 8:03
Ser Vardis is described as "heavy, square, plain-faced, silver-haired" in the book, Although a decent knight in his day he was long past his prime and Bronn knew he'd be a strong favourite.
– TheMathemagician
Aug 18 at 15:42
 |Â
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
12
down vote
He didn’t fight “traditionallyâ€Â
The traditional duel is probably what you see in films and at re-enactment tournaments all the time. Two knights sparring, one attacks the other defends and then counter attacks and this goes on until one wins. Bronn clearly wasn’t doing that: he was running around, retreating and goading Vardis.
He uses other “thingsâ€Â
During the duel he knocks over objects to gain a small advantage and this is clearly not how he is meant to fight. He also gets the on lookers involved by moving between them and even throwing someone into the mix.
He doesn’t stay in the “arenaâ€Â
Duels are generally supposed to take place in their dedicated area and not go outside of it i.e. The Mountian and The Viper. Bronn did not stay in the arena during the fight.
Stand and fight, coward!
Lysa refers to Bronn’s tactics as cowardice but how she words them makes it appear as though the above are in play too. After Bronn hops off the staircase Lysa screams.
Stand and fight, coward!
edited Aug 18 at 8:56
ApproachingDarknessFish
10.4k75380
answered Aug 18 at 7:40
TheLethalCarrot
31k13176217
On my phone right now and I have a busy weekend but will update with quotes and references when I can.
– TheLethalCarrot
Aug 18 at 7:41
7
I took the liberty of fixing some typos. Impressively, your phone managed to autocorrect "Bronn" to 3 different wrong things.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 8:57
2
@ApproachingDarknessFish autocorrect is context-dependent nowadays
– FooBar
Aug 18 at 16:26
add a comment |Â
up vote
12
down vote
He didn’t fight “traditionallyâ€Â
The traditional duel is probably what you see in films and at re-enactment tournaments all the time. Two knights sparring, one attacks the other defends and then counter attacks and this goes on until one wins. Bronn clearly wasn’t doing that: he was running around, retreating and goading Vardis.
He uses other “thingsâ€Â
During the duel he knocks over objects to gain a small advantage and this is clearly not how he is meant to fight. He also gets the on lookers involved by moving between them and even throwing someone into the mix.
He doesn’t stay in the “arenaâ€Â
Duels are generally supposed to take place in their dedicated area and not go outside of it i.e. The Mountian and The Viper. Bronn did not stay in the arena during the fight.
Stand and fight, coward!
Lysa refers to Bronn’s tactics as cowardice but how she words them makes it appear as though the above are in play too. After Bronn hops off the staircase Lysa screams.
Stand and fight, coward!
edited Aug 18 at 8:56
ApproachingDarknessFish
10.4k75380
answered Aug 18 at 7:40
TheLethalCarrot
31k13176217
On my phone right now and I have a busy weekend but will update with quotes and references when I can.
– TheLethalCarrot
Aug 18 at 7:41
7
I took the liberty of fixing some typos. Impressively, your phone managed to autocorrect "Bronn" to 3 different wrong things.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 8:57
2
@ApproachingDarknessFish autocorrect is context-dependent nowadays
– FooBar
Aug 18 at 16:26
add a comment |Â
up vote
12
down vote
up vote
12
down vote
He didn’t fight “traditionallyâ€Â
The traditional duel is probably what you see in films and at re-enactment tournaments all the time. Two knights sparring, one attacks the other defends and then counter attacks and this goes on until one wins. Bronn clearly wasn’t doing that: he was running around, retreating and goading Vardis.
He uses other “thingsâ€Â
During the duel he knocks over objects to gain a small advantage and this is clearly not how he is meant to fight. He also gets the on lookers involved by moving between them and even throwing someone into the mix.
He doesn’t stay in the “arenaâ€Â
Duels are generally supposed to take place in their dedicated area and not go outside of it i.e. The Mountian and The Viper. Bronn did not stay in the arena during the fight.
Stand and fight, coward!
Lysa refers to Bronn’s tactics as cowardice but how she words them makes it appear as though the above are in play too. After Bronn hops off the staircase Lysa screams.
Stand and fight, coward!
edited Aug 18 at 8:56
ApproachingDarknessFish
10.4k75380
answered Aug 18 at 7:40
TheLethalCarrot
31k13176217
He didn’t fight “traditionallyâ€Â
The traditional duel is probably what you see in films and at re-enactment tournaments all the time. Two knights sparring, one attacks the other defends and then counter attacks and this goes on until one wins. Bronn clearly wasn’t doing that: he was running around, retreating and goading Vardis.
He uses other “thingsâ€Â
During the duel he knocks over objects to gain a small advantage and this is clearly not how he is meant to fight. He also gets the on lookers involved by moving between them and even throwing someone into the mix.
He doesn’t stay in the “arenaâ€Â
Duels are generally supposed to take place in their dedicated area and not go outside of it i.e. The Mountian and The Viper. Bronn did not stay in the arena during the fight.
Stand and fight, coward!
Lysa refers to Bronn’s tactics as cowardice but how she words them makes it appear as though the above are in play too. After Bronn hops off the staircase Lysa screams.
Stand and fight, coward!
edited Aug 18 at 8:56
ApproachingDarknessFish
10.4k75380
answered Aug 18 at 7:40
TheLethalCarrot
31k13176217
edited Aug 18 at 8:56
ApproachingDarknessFish
10.4k75380
edited Aug 18 at 8:56
ApproachingDarknessFish
10.4k75380
edited Aug 18 at 8:56
ApproachingDarknessFish
10.4k75380
10.4k75380
answered Aug 18 at 7:40
TheLethalCarrot
31k13176217
answered Aug 18 at 7:40
TheLethalCarrot
31k13176217
answered Aug 18 at 7:40
TheLethalCarrot
31k13176217
31k13176217
On my phone right now and I have a busy weekend but will update with quotes and references when I can.
– TheLethalCarrot
Aug 18 at 7:41
7
I took the liberty of fixing some typos. Impressively, your phone managed to autocorrect "Bronn" to 3 different wrong things.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 8:57
2
@ApproachingDarknessFish autocorrect is context-dependent nowadays
– FooBar
Aug 18 at 16:26
add a comment |Â
On my phone right now and I have a busy weekend but will update with quotes and references when I can.
– TheLethalCarrot
Aug 18 at 7:41
7
I took the liberty of fixing some typos. Impressively, your phone managed to autocorrect "Bronn" to 3 different wrong things.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 8:57
2
@ApproachingDarknessFish autocorrect is context-dependent nowadays
– FooBar
Aug 18 at 16:26
On my phone right now and I have a busy weekend but will update with quotes and references when I can.
– TheLethalCarrot
Aug 18 at 7:41
On my phone right now and I have a busy weekend but will update with quotes and references when I can.
– TheLethalCarrot
Aug 18 at 7:41
7
7
I took the liberty of fixing some typos. Impressively, your phone managed to autocorrect "Bronn" to 3 different wrong things.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 8:57
I took the liberty of fixing some typos. Impressively, your phone managed to autocorrect "Bronn" to 3 different wrong things.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 8:57
2
2
@ApproachingDarknessFish autocorrect is context-dependent nowadays
– FooBar
Aug 18 at 16:26
@ApproachingDarknessFish autocorrect is context-dependent nowadays
– FooBar
Aug 18 at 16:26
add a comment |Â
up vote
10
down vote
I can see two things that might be regarded as dishonourable:
- Bronn spends much of the fight dodging and retreating in order to tire out Ser Vardis. It might be expected that a formal duel would involve more swordplay. Bronn is accused of cowardice for this by Lysa Arryn, although it is of course a sensible strategy when fighting a better swordsman when your opponent is the only one wearing plate.
- The final attack is probably the most significant issue though. An honourable opponent would have allowed Ser Vardis to rise to his feet before continuing the duel. Bronn did not offer him that chance.
edited Aug 18 at 11:59
lfurini
3,38922133
answered Aug 18 at 7:04
Christi
6,7182851
In addition to tiring out his opponent, I saw Bronn's constant retreating at an attempt to lure Ser Vardis into a false sense of security. Look at the (presumably exaggerated, if not faked) fear in his face.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 7:08
1
It's certainly a possibility, but I think it's entirely possible Bronn was scared out of his wits. He has a very realistic approach to life, and must have known that his odds against a trained champion weren't all that great.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 7:10
8
@christi Bronn would not have fought if he did not think he could win, not even if Tyrion offered him all the gold in Casterly Rock. What good is gold to a corpse?
– Revenant
Aug 18 at 7:37
1
True, but Bronn is absolutely a calculating bastard. I think he knew what he was doing was very risky but did it anyway, possibly because Tyrion's fate if he failed to intervent did not sit well with him or possibly because he saw the possibility that he could gain great favour by saving a Lannister - maybe a bit of both. Bron must have believed he could win, but it's likely that he recognised this as the gamble it was, I think.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 8:03
Ser Vardis is described as "heavy, square, plain-faced, silver-haired" in the book, Although a decent knight in his day he was long past his prime and Bronn knew he'd be a strong favourite.
– TheMathemagician
Aug 18 at 15:42
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
10
down vote
I can see two things that might be regarded as dishonourable:
- Bronn spends much of the fight dodging and retreating in order to tire out Ser Vardis. It might be expected that a formal duel would involve more swordplay. Bronn is accused of cowardice for this by Lysa Arryn, although it is of course a sensible strategy when fighting a better swordsman when your opponent is the only one wearing plate.
- The final attack is probably the most significant issue though. An honourable opponent would have allowed Ser Vardis to rise to his feet before continuing the duel. Bronn did not offer him that chance.
edited Aug 18 at 11:59
lfurini
3,38922133
answered Aug 18 at 7:04
Christi
6,7182851
In addition to tiring out his opponent, I saw Bronn's constant retreating at an attempt to lure Ser Vardis into a false sense of security. Look at the (presumably exaggerated, if not faked) fear in his face.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 7:08
1
It's certainly a possibility, but I think it's entirely possible Bronn was scared out of his wits. He has a very realistic approach to life, and must have known that his odds against a trained champion weren't all that great.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 7:10
8
@christi Bronn would not have fought if he did not think he could win, not even if Tyrion offered him all the gold in Casterly Rock. What good is gold to a corpse?
– Revenant
Aug 18 at 7:37
1
True, but Bronn is absolutely a calculating bastard. I think he knew what he was doing was very risky but did it anyway, possibly because Tyrion's fate if he failed to intervent did not sit well with him or possibly because he saw the possibility that he could gain great favour by saving a Lannister - maybe a bit of both. Bron must have believed he could win, but it's likely that he recognised this as the gamble it was, I think.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 8:03
Ser Vardis is described as "heavy, square, plain-faced, silver-haired" in the book, Although a decent knight in his day he was long past his prime and Bronn knew he'd be a strong favourite.
– TheMathemagician
Aug 18 at 15:42
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
10
down vote
up vote
10
down vote
I can see two things that might be regarded as dishonourable:
- Bronn spends much of the fight dodging and retreating in order to tire out Ser Vardis. It might be expected that a formal duel would involve more swordplay. Bronn is accused of cowardice for this by Lysa Arryn, although it is of course a sensible strategy when fighting a better swordsman when your opponent is the only one wearing plate.
- The final attack is probably the most significant issue though. An honourable opponent would have allowed Ser Vardis to rise to his feet before continuing the duel. Bronn did not offer him that chance.
edited Aug 18 at 11:59
lfurini
3,38922133
answered Aug 18 at 7:04
Christi
6,7182851
I can see two things that might be regarded as dishonourable:
- Bronn spends much of the fight dodging and retreating in order to tire out Ser Vardis. It might be expected that a formal duel would involve more swordplay. Bronn is accused of cowardice for this by Lysa Arryn, although it is of course a sensible strategy when fighting a better swordsman when your opponent is the only one wearing plate.
- The final attack is probably the most significant issue though. An honourable opponent would have allowed Ser Vardis to rise to his feet before continuing the duel. Bronn did not offer him that chance.
edited Aug 18 at 11:59
lfurini
3,38922133
answered Aug 18 at 7:04
Christi
6,7182851
edited Aug 18 at 11:59
lfurini
3,38922133
edited Aug 18 at 11:59
lfurini
3,38922133
edited Aug 18 at 11:59
lfurini
3,38922133
3,38922133
answered Aug 18 at 7:04
Christi
6,7182851
answered Aug 18 at 7:04
Christi
6,7182851
answered Aug 18 at 7:04
Christi
6,7182851
6,7182851
In addition to tiring out his opponent, I saw Bronn's constant retreating at an attempt to lure Ser Vardis into a false sense of security. Look at the (presumably exaggerated, if not faked) fear in his face.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 7:08
1
It's certainly a possibility, but I think it's entirely possible Bronn was scared out of his wits. He has a very realistic approach to life, and must have known that his odds against a trained champion weren't all that great.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 7:10
8
@christi Bronn would not have fought if he did not think he could win, not even if Tyrion offered him all the gold in Casterly Rock. What good is gold to a corpse?
– Revenant
Aug 18 at 7:37
1
True, but Bronn is absolutely a calculating bastard. I think he knew what he was doing was very risky but did it anyway, possibly because Tyrion's fate if he failed to intervent did not sit well with him or possibly because he saw the possibility that he could gain great favour by saving a Lannister - maybe a bit of both. Bron must have believed he could win, but it's likely that he recognised this as the gamble it was, I think.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 8:03
Ser Vardis is described as "heavy, square, plain-faced, silver-haired" in the book, Although a decent knight in his day he was long past his prime and Bronn knew he'd be a strong favourite.
– TheMathemagician
Aug 18 at 15:42
 |Â
show 1 more comment
In addition to tiring out his opponent, I saw Bronn's constant retreating at an attempt to lure Ser Vardis into a false sense of security. Look at the (presumably exaggerated, if not faked) fear in his face.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 7:08
1
It's certainly a possibility, but I think it's entirely possible Bronn was scared out of his wits. He has a very realistic approach to life, and must have known that his odds against a trained champion weren't all that great.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 7:10
8
@christi Bronn would not have fought if he did not think he could win, not even if Tyrion offered him all the gold in Casterly Rock. What good is gold to a corpse?
– Revenant
Aug 18 at 7:37
1
True, but Bronn is absolutely a calculating bastard. I think he knew what he was doing was very risky but did it anyway, possibly because Tyrion's fate if he failed to intervent did not sit well with him or possibly because he saw the possibility that he could gain great favour by saving a Lannister - maybe a bit of both. Bron must have believed he could win, but it's likely that he recognised this as the gamble it was, I think.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 8:03
Ser Vardis is described as "heavy, square, plain-faced, silver-haired" in the book, Although a decent knight in his day he was long past his prime and Bronn knew he'd be a strong favourite.
– TheMathemagician
Aug 18 at 15:42
In addition to tiring out his opponent, I saw Bronn's constant retreating at an attempt to lure Ser Vardis into a false sense of security. Look at the (presumably exaggerated, if not faked) fear in his face.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 7:08
In addition to tiring out his opponent, I saw Bronn's constant retreating at an attempt to lure Ser Vardis into a false sense of security. Look at the (presumably exaggerated, if not faked) fear in his face.
– ApproachingDarknessFish
Aug 18 at 7:08
1
1
It's certainly a possibility, but I think it's entirely possible Bronn was scared out of his wits. He has a very realistic approach to life, and must have known that his odds against a trained champion weren't all that great.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 7:10
It's certainly a possibility, but I think it's entirely possible Bronn was scared out of his wits. He has a very realistic approach to life, and must have known that his odds against a trained champion weren't all that great.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 7:10
8
8
@christi Bronn would not have fought if he did not think he could win, not even if Tyrion offered him all the gold in Casterly Rock. What good is gold to a corpse?
– Revenant
Aug 18 at 7:37
@christi Bronn would not have fought if he did not think he could win, not even if Tyrion offered him all the gold in Casterly Rock. What good is gold to a corpse?
– Revenant
Aug 18 at 7:37
1
1
True, but Bronn is absolutely a calculating bastard. I think he knew what he was doing was very risky but did it anyway, possibly because Tyrion's fate if he failed to intervent did not sit well with him or possibly because he saw the possibility that he could gain great favour by saving a Lannister - maybe a bit of both. Bron must have believed he could win, but it's likely that he recognised this as the gamble it was, I think.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 8:03
True, but Bronn is absolutely a calculating bastard. I think he knew what he was doing was very risky but did it anyway, possibly because Tyrion's fate if he failed to intervent did not sit well with him or possibly because he saw the possibility that he could gain great favour by saving a Lannister - maybe a bit of both. Bron must have believed he could win, but it's likely that he recognised this as the gamble it was, I think.
– Christi
Aug 18 at 8:03
Ser Vardis is described as "heavy, square, plain-faced, silver-haired" in the book, Although a decent knight in his day he was long past his prime and Bronn knew he'd be a strong favourite.
– TheMathemagician
Aug 18 at 15:42
Ser Vardis is described as "heavy, square, plain-faced, silver-haired" in the book, Although a decent knight in his day he was long past his prime and Bronn knew he'd be a strong favourite.
– TheMathemagician
Aug 18 at 15:42
 |Â
show 1 more comment
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