Do distinguishable fermions obey the Pauli exclusion principle?

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We know that fermions are identical particles and obey Pauli exclusion principle. But what is meant by distinguishable fermions? Does that mean, like proton and electron both are fermions but they are distinguishable because of charge? And if we put together both distinguishable fermions, will they obey Pauli exclusion principle ?






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    We know that fermions are identical particles and obey Pauli exclusion principle. But what is meant by distinguishable fermions? Does that mean, like proton and electron both are fermions but they are distinguishable because of charge? And if we put together both distinguishable fermions, will they obey Pauli exclusion principle ?






    fermions pauli-exclusion-principle quantum-statistics







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      We know that fermions are identical particles and obey Pauli exclusion principle. But what is meant by distinguishable fermions? Does that mean, like proton and electron both are fermions but they are distinguishable because of charge? And if we put together both distinguishable fermions, will they obey Pauli exclusion principle ?






      fermions pauli-exclusion-principle quantum-statistics







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      Tooba is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      We know that fermions are identical particles and obey Pauli exclusion principle. But what is meant by distinguishable fermions? Does that mean, like proton and electron both are fermions but they are distinguishable because of charge? And if we put together both distinguishable fermions, will they obey Pauli exclusion principle ?






      fermions pauli-exclusion-principle quantum-statistics




      fermions pauli-exclusion-principle quantum-statistics






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      edited 5 mins ago









      knzhou

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          3 Answers
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          This is the table of elementary particles, and if you read it carefully you will see that there are a number of quantum numbers, not only charge and mass, the make them individual and distinguishable.



          Distinguishable fermions do not fall into the Pauli exclusion principle.



          The proton is composite , and also in addition to charge has baryon number 1, the positron ( antiparticle of the electron ) has baryon number zero and lepton number 1, also their mass is very different. So they are distinguishable and do not obey the Pauli exclusion.






          share|cite|improve this answer



























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            The Pauli Exclusion Principle is that no two indistinguishable fermions may occupy the same quantum state. It does not apply to pairs of distinguishable fermions (e.g. a neutron and a proton). If it did, then nuclear physics would be very different. See Are protons and neutrons affected by the Pauli Exclusion Principle?



            Distinguishable fermions may be distinguished from each other by their mass, charge, spin, isopin etc.






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              The simple way to think about it is to imagine that all fermions are excitations of a single field. These excitations can differ in their position, spin, charge, mass, and so on, and the Pauli exclusion principle applies to all of them. Mathematically, this is just the fact that all fermionic creation operators anticommute; the joint wavefunction of all fermions is antisymmetric.



              So fermions that are far apart aren't affected, because they differ in position space. Fermions that have different spins aren't affected, because they differ in spin. And protons and neutrons don't affect each other because they differ in mass and charge. The Pauli exclusion principle always applies and there are no exceptions. Any two fermions must be different in some way to coexist.



              Because spin and position are easily changed, and mass and charge aren't, sometimes people break the rule into two cases. They say that Pauli exclusion only looks at spin and position, and doesn't apply to things with different masses and charges (because they're automatically different). This works for simple situations, but it's dangerous, because if you take it too literally you'll get the wrong answer when constructing baryon wavefunctions. There you really do have to antisymmetrize over all degrees of freedom, including the type of quark. You cannot just apply it to each quark flavor individually.






              share|cite|improve this answer






















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                3 Answers
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                active

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                3 Answers
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                active

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                up vote
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                down vote













                This is the table of elementary particles, and if you read it carefully you will see that there are a number of quantum numbers, not only charge and mass, the make them individual and distinguishable.



                Distinguishable fermions do not fall into the Pauli exclusion principle.



                The proton is composite , and also in addition to charge has baryon number 1, the positron ( antiparticle of the electron ) has baryon number zero and lepton number 1, also their mass is very different. So they are distinguishable and do not obey the Pauli exclusion.






                share|cite|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  This is the table of elementary particles, and if you read it carefully you will see that there are a number of quantum numbers, not only charge and mass, the make them individual and distinguishable.



                  Distinguishable fermions do not fall into the Pauli exclusion principle.



                  The proton is composite , and also in addition to charge has baryon number 1, the positron ( antiparticle of the electron ) has baryon number zero and lepton number 1, also their mass is very different. So they are distinguishable and do not obey the Pauli exclusion.






                  share|cite|improve this answer






















                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote









                    This is the table of elementary particles, and if you read it carefully you will see that there are a number of quantum numbers, not only charge and mass, the make them individual and distinguishable.



                    Distinguishable fermions do not fall into the Pauli exclusion principle.



                    The proton is composite , and also in addition to charge has baryon number 1, the positron ( antiparticle of the electron ) has baryon number zero and lepton number 1, also their mass is very different. So they are distinguishable and do not obey the Pauli exclusion.






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    This is the table of elementary particles, and if you read it carefully you will see that there are a number of quantum numbers, not only charge and mass, the make them individual and distinguishable.



                    Distinguishable fermions do not fall into the Pauli exclusion principle.



                    The proton is composite , and also in addition to charge has baryon number 1, the positron ( antiparticle of the electron ) has baryon number zero and lepton number 1, also their mass is very different. So they are distinguishable and do not obey the Pauli exclusion.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered 2 hours ago









                    anna v

                    152k7145432




                    152k7145432




















                        up vote
                        1
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                        The Pauli Exclusion Principle is that no two indistinguishable fermions may occupy the same quantum state. It does not apply to pairs of distinguishable fermions (e.g. a neutron and a proton). If it did, then nuclear physics would be very different. See Are protons and neutrons affected by the Pauli Exclusion Principle?



                        Distinguishable fermions may be distinguished from each other by their mass, charge, spin, isopin etc.






                        share|cite|improve this answer
























                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          The Pauli Exclusion Principle is that no two indistinguishable fermions may occupy the same quantum state. It does not apply to pairs of distinguishable fermions (e.g. a neutron and a proton). If it did, then nuclear physics would be very different. See Are protons and neutrons affected by the Pauli Exclusion Principle?



                          Distinguishable fermions may be distinguished from each other by their mass, charge, spin, isopin etc.






                          share|cite|improve this answer






















                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote









                            The Pauli Exclusion Principle is that no two indistinguishable fermions may occupy the same quantum state. It does not apply to pairs of distinguishable fermions (e.g. a neutron and a proton). If it did, then nuclear physics would be very different. See Are protons and neutrons affected by the Pauli Exclusion Principle?



                            Distinguishable fermions may be distinguished from each other by their mass, charge, spin, isopin etc.






                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            The Pauli Exclusion Principle is that no two indistinguishable fermions may occupy the same quantum state. It does not apply to pairs of distinguishable fermions (e.g. a neutron and a proton). If it did, then nuclear physics would be very different. See Are protons and neutrons affected by the Pauli Exclusion Principle?



                            Distinguishable fermions may be distinguished from each other by their mass, charge, spin, isopin etc.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered 2 hours ago









                            Rob Jeffries

                            65.8k7130223




                            65.8k7130223




















                                up vote
                                1
                                down vote













                                The simple way to think about it is to imagine that all fermions are excitations of a single field. These excitations can differ in their position, spin, charge, mass, and so on, and the Pauli exclusion principle applies to all of them. Mathematically, this is just the fact that all fermionic creation operators anticommute; the joint wavefunction of all fermions is antisymmetric.



                                So fermions that are far apart aren't affected, because they differ in position space. Fermions that have different spins aren't affected, because they differ in spin. And protons and neutrons don't affect each other because they differ in mass and charge. The Pauli exclusion principle always applies and there are no exceptions. Any two fermions must be different in some way to coexist.



                                Because spin and position are easily changed, and mass and charge aren't, sometimes people break the rule into two cases. They say that Pauli exclusion only looks at spin and position, and doesn't apply to things with different masses and charges (because they're automatically different). This works for simple situations, but it's dangerous, because if you take it too literally you'll get the wrong answer when constructing baryon wavefunctions. There you really do have to antisymmetrize over all degrees of freedom, including the type of quark. You cannot just apply it to each quark flavor individually.






                                share|cite|improve this answer


























                                  up vote
                                  1
                                  down vote













                                  The simple way to think about it is to imagine that all fermions are excitations of a single field. These excitations can differ in their position, spin, charge, mass, and so on, and the Pauli exclusion principle applies to all of them. Mathematically, this is just the fact that all fermionic creation operators anticommute; the joint wavefunction of all fermions is antisymmetric.



                                  So fermions that are far apart aren't affected, because they differ in position space. Fermions that have different spins aren't affected, because they differ in spin. And protons and neutrons don't affect each other because they differ in mass and charge. The Pauli exclusion principle always applies and there are no exceptions. Any two fermions must be different in some way to coexist.



                                  Because spin and position are easily changed, and mass and charge aren't, sometimes people break the rule into two cases. They say that Pauli exclusion only looks at spin and position, and doesn't apply to things with different masses and charges (because they're automatically different). This works for simple situations, but it's dangerous, because if you take it too literally you'll get the wrong answer when constructing baryon wavefunctions. There you really do have to antisymmetrize over all degrees of freedom, including the type of quark. You cannot just apply it to each quark flavor individually.






                                  share|cite|improve this answer
























                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote









                                    The simple way to think about it is to imagine that all fermions are excitations of a single field. These excitations can differ in their position, spin, charge, mass, and so on, and the Pauli exclusion principle applies to all of them. Mathematically, this is just the fact that all fermionic creation operators anticommute; the joint wavefunction of all fermions is antisymmetric.



                                    So fermions that are far apart aren't affected, because they differ in position space. Fermions that have different spins aren't affected, because they differ in spin. And protons and neutrons don't affect each other because they differ in mass and charge. The Pauli exclusion principle always applies and there are no exceptions. Any two fermions must be different in some way to coexist.



                                    Because spin and position are easily changed, and mass and charge aren't, sometimes people break the rule into two cases. They say that Pauli exclusion only looks at spin and position, and doesn't apply to things with different masses and charges (because they're automatically different). This works for simple situations, but it's dangerous, because if you take it too literally you'll get the wrong answer when constructing baryon wavefunctions. There you really do have to antisymmetrize over all degrees of freedom, including the type of quark. You cannot just apply it to each quark flavor individually.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer














                                    The simple way to think about it is to imagine that all fermions are excitations of a single field. These excitations can differ in their position, spin, charge, mass, and so on, and the Pauli exclusion principle applies to all of them. Mathematically, this is just the fact that all fermionic creation operators anticommute; the joint wavefunction of all fermions is antisymmetric.



                                    So fermions that are far apart aren't affected, because they differ in position space. Fermions that have different spins aren't affected, because they differ in spin. And protons and neutrons don't affect each other because they differ in mass and charge. The Pauli exclusion principle always applies and there are no exceptions. Any two fermions must be different in some way to coexist.



                                    Because spin and position are easily changed, and mass and charge aren't, sometimes people break the rule into two cases. They say that Pauli exclusion only looks at spin and position, and doesn't apply to things with different masses and charges (because they're automatically different). This works for simple situations, but it's dangerous, because if you take it too literally you'll get the wrong answer when constructing baryon wavefunctions. There you really do have to antisymmetrize over all degrees of freedom, including the type of quark. You cannot just apply it to each quark flavor individually.







                                    share|cite|improve this answer














                                    share|cite|improve this answer



                                    share|cite|improve this answer








                                    edited 7 mins ago

























                                    answered 13 mins ago









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