Can tiny (or smaller) creatures typically never attack in melee?

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Movement:

You canÃ¢Â€Â™t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures

Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they canÃ¢Â€Â™t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponentÃ¢Â€Â™s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also canÃ¢Â€Â™t flank an enemy.

Given how I read this, since tiny creatures can't typically end their movement in an occupied square they can never make a melee attack without something like spring attack, long arm, etc.

Is this correct?

edited Aug 25 at 16:46

SevenSidedDieâ™¦

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asked Aug 24 at 22:53

william porter

774114

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â€“Â Hey I Can Chan
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up vote
6
down vote

favorite

Movement:

You canÃ¢Â€Â™t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures

Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they canÃ¢Â€Â™t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponentÃ¢Â€Â™s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also canÃ¢Â€Â™t flank an enemy.

Given how I read this, since tiny creatures can't typically end their movement in an occupied square they can never make a melee attack without something like spring attack, long arm, etc.

Is this correct?

edited Aug 25 at 16:46

SevenSidedDieâ™¦

198k25631911

asked Aug 24 at 22:53

william porter

774114

You might also be interested in this question.
â€“Â Hey I Can Chan
Aug 25 at 1:33

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
6
down vote

favorite

Movement:

You canÃ¢Â€Â™t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures

Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they canÃ¢Â€Â™t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponentÃ¢Â€Â™s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also canÃ¢Â€Â™t flank an enemy.

Given how I read this, since tiny creatures can't typically end their movement in an occupied square they can never make a melee attack without something like spring attack, long arm, etc.

Is this correct?

edited Aug 25 at 16:46

SevenSidedDieâ™¦

198k25631911

asked Aug 24 at 22:53

william porter

774114

Movement:

You canÃ¢Â€Â™t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures

Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they canÃ¢Â€Â™t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponentÃ¢Â€Â™s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also canÃ¢Â€Â™t flank an enemy.

Given how I read this, since tiny creatures can't typically end their movement in an occupied square they can never make a melee attack without something like spring attack, long arm, etc.

Is this correct?

edited Aug 25 at 16:46

SevenSidedDieâ™¦

198k25631911

asked Aug 24 at 22:53

william porter

774114

edited Aug 25 at 16:46

SevenSidedDieâ™¦

198k25631911

edited Aug 25 at 16:46

SevenSidedDieâ™¦

198k25631911

edited Aug 25 at 16:46

SevenSidedDieâ™¦

198k25631911

asked Aug 24 at 22:53

william porter

774114

asked Aug 24 at 22:53

william porter

774114

asked Aug 24 at 22:53

william porter

774114

You might also be interested in this question.
â€“Â Hey I Can Chan
Aug 25 at 1:33

add a commentÂ |Â

You might also be interested in this question.
â€“Â Hey I Can Chan
Aug 25 at 1:33

You might also be interested in this question.
â€“Â Hey I Can Chan
Aug 25 at 1:33

add a commentÂ |Â

3 Answers
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accepted

Yes they can attack in melee normally

To requote the section in Fering's answer:

Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive or Tiny creature can move
into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of
opportunity when doing so.

The key word here is "into" - this is not the same as "through". If this exception did not exist for very small creatures then there would be no mechanic by which more than one of these very small creatures could be in the one square, despite the section quoted by the OP clearly listing how many of these creatures can be in the one square.

So, the very small creature can move into the same square as its melee target and attack, it just risks an attack of opportunity for doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:42

KerrAvon2055

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Rules as written, yes, that's correct, unless they have flyby attack or something similar. Rules as Intended and Rules as Reasonable, however, would allow tiny creatures to be an exception.

answered Aug 24 at 22:55

Goodpie2

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Goodpie2 is correct that you cant end your turn in the square, but you can squeeze into the square and move throught it. So spring attack and similar feats will be useful to you.

Moving Through a Square

A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:30

Fering

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3 Answers
3

active

oldest

votes

3 Answers
3

active

oldest

votes

up vote
13
down vote

accepted

Yes they can attack in melee normally

To requote the section in Fering's answer:

Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive or Tiny creature can move
into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of
opportunity when doing so.

So, the very small creature can move into the same square as its melee target and attack, it just risks an attack of opportunity for doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:42

KerrAvon2055

1,323212

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
13
down vote

accepted

Yes they can attack in melee normally

To requote the section in Fering's answer:

Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive or Tiny creature can move
into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of
opportunity when doing so.

So, the very small creature can move into the same square as its melee target and attack, it just risks an attack of opportunity for doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:42

KerrAvon2055

1,323212

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
13
down vote

accepted

Yes they can attack in melee normally

To requote the section in Fering's answer:

Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive or Tiny creature can move
into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of
opportunity when doing so.

So, the very small creature can move into the same square as its melee target and attack, it just risks an attack of opportunity for doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:42

KerrAvon2055

1,323212

Yes they can attack in melee normally

To requote the section in Fering's answer:

Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive or Tiny creature can move
into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of
opportunity when doing so.

So, the very small creature can move into the same square as its melee target and attack, it just risks an attack of opportunity for doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:42

KerrAvon2055

1,323212

answered Aug 24 at 23:42

KerrAvon2055

1,323212

answered Aug 24 at 23:42

KerrAvon2055

1,323212

answered Aug 24 at 23:42

KerrAvon2055

1,323212

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
-2
down vote

Rules as written, yes, that's correct, unless they have flyby attack or something similar. Rules as Intended and Rules as Reasonable, however, would allow tiny creatures to be an exception.

answered Aug 24 at 22:55

Goodpie2

193

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
-2
down vote

Rules as written, yes, that's correct, unless they have flyby attack or something similar. Rules as Intended and Rules as Reasonable, however, would allow tiny creatures to be an exception.

answered Aug 24 at 22:55

Goodpie2

193

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
-2
down vote

Rules as written, yes, that's correct, unless they have flyby attack or something similar. Rules as Intended and Rules as Reasonable, however, would allow tiny creatures to be an exception.

answered Aug 24 at 22:55

Goodpie2

193

Rules as written, yes, that's correct, unless they have flyby attack or something similar. Rules as Intended and Rules as Reasonable, however, would allow tiny creatures to be an exception.

answered Aug 24 at 22:55

Goodpie2

193

answered Aug 24 at 22:55

Goodpie2

193

answered Aug 24 at 22:55

Goodpie2

193

answered Aug 24 at 22:55

Goodpie2

193

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
-2
down vote

Goodpie2 is correct that you cant end your turn in the square, but you can squeeze into the square and move throught it. So spring attack and similar feats will be useful to you.

Moving Through a Square

A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:30

Fering

12.3k228108

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
-2
down vote

Goodpie2 is correct that you cant end your turn in the square, but you can squeeze into the square and move throught it. So spring attack and similar feats will be useful to you.

Moving Through a Square

A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:30

Fering

12.3k228108

add a commentÂ |Â

up vote
-2
down vote

Goodpie2 is correct that you cant end your turn in the square, but you can squeeze into the square and move throught it. So spring attack and similar feats will be useful to you.

Moving Through a Square

A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:30

Fering

12.3k228108

Goodpie2 is correct that you cant end your turn in the square, but you can squeeze into the square and move throught it. So spring attack and similar feats will be useful to you.

Moving Through a Square

A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

answered Aug 24 at 23:30

Fering

12.3k228108

answered Aug 24 at 23:30

Fering

12.3k228108

answered Aug 24 at 23:30

Fering

12.3k228108

answered Aug 24 at 23:30

Fering

12.3k228108

add a commentÂ |Â

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