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Why is New York often said with the word “City†in English?
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Usually, while watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "City" to New York(New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English? I can only guess that it's used just to distinguish state and City itself. However, in some other languages(e.g. Ukrainian), usually people don't use "City" after NY. They would assume that the person is talking about the city already. If you want to talk about state, you can mention that.
word-usage collocations confusable
asked Sep 1 at 16:51
dvelopp
23037
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up vote
25
down vote
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Usually, while watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "City" to New York(New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English? I can only guess that it's used just to distinguish state and City itself. However, in some other languages(e.g. Ukrainian), usually people don't use "City" after NY. They would assume that the person is talking about the city already. If you want to talk about state, you can mention that.
word-usage collocations confusable
asked Sep 1 at 16:51
dvelopp
23037
3
London is another interesting example because most often when people say "London" the don't mean the "City of London". Most of the time when you're in London you are not in the City of London. The City of London is just a small part of London and is generally where the business district is. Unlike London, the City of London have very weird election rules because only recognised Guilds can vote (or appoint people to vote)
– slebetman
Sep 2 at 9:42
And then there is New York County.
– chux
Sep 2 at 18:21
@slebetman: it's not just Guilds; residents of the City can also vote - as can representatives of companies (link).
– Steve Melnikoff
Sep 3 at 14:10
@slebetman: There are also two cities in Greater London the City of London and the City of Westminister. Both places have the Letters of Patent issued by the Crown need to endow city status on a place. This is though a very particularly British definition of a city.
– Sarriesfan
Sep 3 at 16:49
add a comment |Â
up vote
25
down vote
favorite
up vote
25
down vote
favorite
Usually, while watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "City" to New York(New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English? I can only guess that it's used just to distinguish state and City itself. However, in some other languages(e.g. Ukrainian), usually people don't use "City" after NY. They would assume that the person is talking about the city already. If you want to talk about state, you can mention that.
word-usage collocations confusable
asked Sep 1 at 16:51
dvelopp
23037
Usually, while watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "City" to New York(New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English? I can only guess that it's used just to distinguish state and City itself. However, in some other languages(e.g. Ukrainian), usually people don't use "City" after NY. They would assume that the person is talking about the city already. If you want to talk about state, you can mention that.
word-usage collocations confusable
asked Sep 1 at 16:51
dvelopp
23037
edited Sep 1 at 21:16
asked Sep 1 at 16:51
dvelopp
23037
asked Sep 1 at 16:51
dvelopp
23037
asked Sep 1 at 16:51
dvelopp
23037
23037
3
London is another interesting example because most often when people say "London" the don't mean the "City of London". Most of the time when you're in London you are not in the City of London. The City of London is just a small part of London and is generally where the business district is. Unlike London, the City of London have very weird election rules because only recognised Guilds can vote (or appoint people to vote)
– slebetman
Sep 2 at 9:42
And then there is New York County.
– chux
Sep 2 at 18:21
@slebetman: it's not just Guilds; residents of the City can also vote - as can representatives of companies (link).
– Steve Melnikoff
Sep 3 at 14:10
@slebetman: There are also two cities in Greater London the City of London and the City of Westminister. Both places have the Letters of Patent issued by the Crown need to endow city status on a place. This is though a very particularly British definition of a city.
– Sarriesfan
Sep 3 at 16:49
add a comment |Â
3
London is another interesting example because most often when people say "London" the don't mean the "City of London". Most of the time when you're in London you are not in the City of London. The City of London is just a small part of London and is generally where the business district is. Unlike London, the City of London have very weird election rules because only recognised Guilds can vote (or appoint people to vote)
– slebetman
Sep 2 at 9:42
And then there is New York County.
– chux
Sep 2 at 18:21
@slebetman: it's not just Guilds; residents of the City can also vote - as can representatives of companies (link).
– Steve Melnikoff
Sep 3 at 14:10
@slebetman: There are also two cities in Greater London the City of London and the City of Westminister. Both places have the Letters of Patent issued by the Crown need to endow city status on a place. This is though a very particularly British definition of a city.
– Sarriesfan
Sep 3 at 16:49
3
3
London is another interesting example because most often when people say "London" the don't mean the "City of London". Most of the time when you're in London you are not in the City of London. The City of London is just a small part of London and is generally where the business district is. Unlike London, the City of London have very weird election rules because only recognised Guilds can vote (or appoint people to vote)
– slebetman
Sep 2 at 9:42
London is another interesting example because most often when people say "London" the don't mean the "City of London". Most of the time when you're in London you are not in the City of London. The City of London is just a small part of London and is generally where the business district is. Unlike London, the City of London have very weird election rules because only recognised Guilds can vote (or appoint people to vote)
– slebetman
Sep 2 at 9:42
And then there is New York County.
– chux
Sep 2 at 18:21
And then there is New York County.
– chux
Sep 2 at 18:21
@slebetman: it's not just Guilds; residents of the City can also vote - as can representatives of companies (link).
– Steve Melnikoff
Sep 3 at 14:10
@slebetman: it's not just Guilds; residents of the City can also vote - as can representatives of companies (link).
– Steve Melnikoff
Sep 3 at 14:10
@slebetman: There are also two cities in Greater London the City of London and the City of Westminister. Both places have the Letters of Patent issued by the Crown need to endow city status on a place. This is though a very particularly British definition of a city.
– Sarriesfan
Sep 3 at 16:49
@slebetman: There are also two cities in Greater London the City of London and the City of Westminister. Both places have the Letters of Patent issued by the Crown need to endow city status on a place. This is though a very particularly British definition of a city.
– Sarriesfan
Sep 3 at 16:49
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
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Your assumption is correct—it's to distinguish between the city and the state.
Idiomatically, it's simply the case that the phrase New York city (or the proper noun New York City) was picked as the more common "identifier" over than the phrase New York state (or the proper noun New York State).
(Having said that, I have heard people refer to New York State—but not as often.)
I can't tell you why this would have been the case originally, simply that it ended up that way and we continue to use it.
Update:
Per the Wikipedia entry for the history of the city of New York the timeline of its names is as follows:
1524: New Angoulême
1664: New York
1898: City of New York
And per the main entry for the city of New York:
The City of New York, often called New York City (NYC) or simply New York, is the most populous city in the United States.
Also per the Wikipedia entry for the state of New York:
1664: Province of New York
1776: New York
And:
To differentiate the state from the city with the same name, it is sometimes called New York State.
But, strictly speaking, the city is named City of New York and the state is named New York.
answered Sep 1 at 16:59
Jason Bassford
8,6271926
11
When people know the context, they don't bother with city. When it's not clear, they clarify it. The same goes for New York state. One might be discussing, say, taxes, and it might not be clear whether they are referring to New York state taxes or New York City taxes. Officially, the name is NYC, New York City or City of New York. Caps are preferred.....But your answer is generally correct.
– Lambie
Sep 1 at 17:35
8
In my experience, for residents of the Acela corridor (i.e. the DC to Boston chain of cities), New York refers to the city while New York State refers to the state. If someone tells me they are going to New York, they don't mean Buffalo or Albany.
– kingledion
Sep 1 at 18:17
5
For other cities and states with the same name, it’s common to specify the city rather than the state, too (e.g. Oklahoma City but not Oklahoma State, unless you’re referring to the university.)
– bogardpd
Sep 1 at 18:32
7
I tried to edit this question but I ended up rolling it back. That said, please fix your second paragraph, as I think it's currently misleading to learners. The city's name is New York City (with a capital C, as @Lambie correctly points out). You can say, "New York refers to the city", or "New York City refers to the city," but saying "New York city is the phrase that was picked as the more common identifier" seems to make things more confusing, not less confusing.
– J.R.♦
Sep 1 at 20:08
2
@Lambie "Update New York" refers to (almost) everything north of the city for some people outside of the city as well. I grew up along the southern border with Pennsylvania, a few hundred miles/km northwest of NYC, and in that area we also consider ourselves part of upstate New York. I believe that's a regional variation.
– David Z
Sep 1 at 23:27
 |Â
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up vote
18
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While watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "city" to New York (New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English?
Adding the word "city" is not "stuff in English".
The name of the city is New York City. Quite often, though – perhaps because it happens to be one of the biggest and most famous cities in the world – this is shortened to New York.
To make matters a little bit more confusing, New York City happens to be in the state of New York, so, when someone says, "I drove through New York last month," that could mean a person drove across the state, or it could mean they drove through the city. But all ambiguity could be eliminated if they say, "I drove through New York City last month," or "I drove through New York state last month."
This is more a quirk of geographic names than it is a quirk of English. There is a town called Nebraska City in the state of Nebraska, but no one shortens that to Nebraska. When they say "Nebraska," they mean the state, and when they refer to the city, they call it "Nebraska City." The same is true for Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I have never heard anyone from Traverse City, Michigan refer to the city as "Traverse" (although I have heard it affectionately called "TC" by locals.) And, for the most part, no one calls Seattle, "Seattle City", or refers to Miami as "Miami City" (although you might read or hear "the city of Seattle" from time to time).
answered Sep 1 at 20:26
J.R.♦
94.7k7123237
2
On the other hand, there's a town called Oregon in Missouri, and that's just confusing.
– David Richerby
Sep 1 at 21:21
7
And of course we have Kansas City, which is mostly in Missouri...
– jcaron
Sep 1 at 22:26
2
As a note - "city of Seattle" is only used to differentiate it from the greater Seattle area which is not officially called Seattle. But if the "city of seattle" were located in a hypothetical state of "Seattle", the city itself would probably be named Seattle City or something similar. Postfix v.s. prefix.
– Knetic
Sep 2 at 0:49
4
Something else that adds to the confusion is that the USPS not only recognizes, but actually prefers, New York, NY over New York City, NY. In fact, they go so far as to say that New York City, NY is a city name to avoid. See here and test it out with an NYC zip code (e.g. 10004).
– mathewb
Sep 2 at 0:54
4
Another example where the name is just not enough is of course Washington State and Washington, D.C.
– Nassbirne
Sep 2 at 12:29
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If I tell people that my wife and her family are from New York, they frequently assume I'm talking about New York City (NYC). Only I'm not, I'm talking about a place that's 5 and half to six hours away by car. It's fairly important to say whether you mean NYC or New York State because the city comes to mind first for most Americans, not the state -- which is logical -- since 8 1/2 million people live there, making it the most populous city by far in the States. Far fewer people have been to what is commonly referred to by New York City inhabitants as "Upstate New York" or just "Upstate". This area is generally any area not New York City, as New York City itself sits on the southernmost latitude of the state in line with the state of Pennsylvania. Those people that do visit upstate generally only visit the Niagara Falls in Buffalo on the other side of the state, or visit the Adirondacks to the north.
answered Sep 2 at 0:49
Adam R. Turner
913
I agree with you. But I lived smack in the middle of it, and never said upstate New York unless I was going somewhere north of the Catskills. Not, for instance, if I was going up the Hudson Valley to, say, Tarrytown. I think there is a social status aspect to this as well. For many people, anything beyond the boroughs is another "country", except Long Island.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 15:16
I have two buddies from NYC from my time in the Army, they both referred to upstate this way, but then maybe not all the boroughs are the same. One was from Brooklyn, and I think the other was from Queens.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 16:20
By this way, you mean anything north of the city, right? Sorry, I can't tell what you meant.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 16:23
Ah, that's the rub. Yeah, I meant north of the city.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 23:17
@AdamR.Turner Were your friends Captain America and Spiderman?
– Oscar Bravo
Sep 3 at 6:43
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
Your assumption is correct—it's to distinguish between the city and the state.
Idiomatically, it's simply the case that the phrase New York city (or the proper noun New York City) was picked as the more common "identifier" over than the phrase New York state (or the proper noun New York State).
(Having said that, I have heard people refer to New York State—but not as often.)
I can't tell you why this would have been the case originally, simply that it ended up that way and we continue to use it.
Update:
Per the Wikipedia entry for the history of the city of New York the timeline of its names is as follows:
1524: New Angoulême
1664: New York
1898: City of New York
And per the main entry for the city of New York:
The City of New York, often called New York City (NYC) or simply New York, is the most populous city in the United States.
Also per the Wikipedia entry for the state of New York:
1664: Province of New York
1776: New York
And:
To differentiate the state from the city with the same name, it is sometimes called New York State.
But, strictly speaking, the city is named City of New York and the state is named New York.
answered Sep 1 at 16:59
Jason Bassford
8,6271926
11
When people know the context, they don't bother with city. When it's not clear, they clarify it. The same goes for New York state. One might be discussing, say, taxes, and it might not be clear whether they are referring to New York state taxes or New York City taxes. Officially, the name is NYC, New York City or City of New York. Caps are preferred.....But your answer is generally correct.
– Lambie
Sep 1 at 17:35
8
In my experience, for residents of the Acela corridor (i.e. the DC to Boston chain of cities), New York refers to the city while New York State refers to the state. If someone tells me they are going to New York, they don't mean Buffalo or Albany.
– kingledion
Sep 1 at 18:17
5
For other cities and states with the same name, it’s common to specify the city rather than the state, too (e.g. Oklahoma City but not Oklahoma State, unless you’re referring to the university.)
– bogardpd
Sep 1 at 18:32
7
I tried to edit this question but I ended up rolling it back. That said, please fix your second paragraph, as I think it's currently misleading to learners. The city's name is New York City (with a capital C, as @Lambie correctly points out). You can say, "New York refers to the city", or "New York City refers to the city," but saying "New York city is the phrase that was picked as the more common identifier" seems to make things more confusing, not less confusing.
– J.R.♦
Sep 1 at 20:08
2
@Lambie "Update New York" refers to (almost) everything north of the city for some people outside of the city as well. I grew up along the southern border with Pennsylvania, a few hundred miles/km northwest of NYC, and in that area we also consider ourselves part of upstate New York. I believe that's a regional variation.
– David Z
Sep 1 at 23:27
 |Â
show 9 more comments
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
Your assumption is correct—it's to distinguish between the city and the state.
Idiomatically, it's simply the case that the phrase New York city (or the proper noun New York City) was picked as the more common "identifier" over than the phrase New York state (or the proper noun New York State).
(Having said that, I have heard people refer to New York State—but not as often.)
I can't tell you why this would have been the case originally, simply that it ended up that way and we continue to use it.
Update:
Per the Wikipedia entry for the history of the city of New York the timeline of its names is as follows:
1524: New Angoulême
1664: New York
1898: City of New York
And per the main entry for the city of New York:
The City of New York, often called New York City (NYC) or simply New York, is the most populous city in the United States.
Also per the Wikipedia entry for the state of New York:
1664: Province of New York
1776: New York
And:
To differentiate the state from the city with the same name, it is sometimes called New York State.
But, strictly speaking, the city is named City of New York and the state is named New York.
answered Sep 1 at 16:59
Jason Bassford
8,6271926
11
When people know the context, they don't bother with city. When it's not clear, they clarify it. The same goes for New York state. One might be discussing, say, taxes, and it might not be clear whether they are referring to New York state taxes or New York City taxes. Officially, the name is NYC, New York City or City of New York. Caps are preferred.....But your answer is generally correct.
– Lambie
Sep 1 at 17:35
8
In my experience, for residents of the Acela corridor (i.e. the DC to Boston chain of cities), New York refers to the city while New York State refers to the state. If someone tells me they are going to New York, they don't mean Buffalo or Albany.
– kingledion
Sep 1 at 18:17
5
For other cities and states with the same name, it’s common to specify the city rather than the state, too (e.g. Oklahoma City but not Oklahoma State, unless you’re referring to the university.)
– bogardpd
Sep 1 at 18:32
7
I tried to edit this question but I ended up rolling it back. That said, please fix your second paragraph, as I think it's currently misleading to learners. The city's name is New York City (with a capital C, as @Lambie correctly points out). You can say, "New York refers to the city", or "New York City refers to the city," but saying "New York city is the phrase that was picked as the more common identifier" seems to make things more confusing, not less confusing.
– J.R.♦
Sep 1 at 20:08
2
@Lambie "Update New York" refers to (almost) everything north of the city for some people outside of the city as well. I grew up along the southern border with Pennsylvania, a few hundred miles/km northwest of NYC, and in that area we also consider ourselves part of upstate New York. I believe that's a regional variation.
– David Z
Sep 1 at 23:27
 |Â
show 9 more comments
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
Your assumption is correct—it's to distinguish between the city and the state.
Idiomatically, it's simply the case that the phrase New York city (or the proper noun New York City) was picked as the more common "identifier" over than the phrase New York state (or the proper noun New York State).
(Having said that, I have heard people refer to New York State—but not as often.)
I can't tell you why this would have been the case originally, simply that it ended up that way and we continue to use it.
Update:
Per the Wikipedia entry for the history of the city of New York the timeline of its names is as follows:
1524: New Angoulême
1664: New York
1898: City of New York
And per the main entry for the city of New York:
The City of New York, often called New York City (NYC) or simply New York, is the most populous city in the United States.
Also per the Wikipedia entry for the state of New York:
1664: Province of New York
1776: New York
And:
To differentiate the state from the city with the same name, it is sometimes called New York State.
But, strictly speaking, the city is named City of New York and the state is named New York.
answered Sep 1 at 16:59
Jason Bassford
8,6271926
Your assumption is correct—it's to distinguish between the city and the state.
Idiomatically, it's simply the case that the phrase New York city (or the proper noun New York City) was picked as the more common "identifier" over than the phrase New York state (or the proper noun New York State).
(Having said that, I have heard people refer to New York State—but not as often.)
I can't tell you why this would have been the case originally, simply that it ended up that way and we continue to use it.
Update:
Per the Wikipedia entry for the history of the city of New York the timeline of its names is as follows:
1524: New Angoulême
1664: New York
1898: City of New York
And per the main entry for the city of New York:
The City of New York, often called New York City (NYC) or simply New York, is the most populous city in the United States.
Also per the Wikipedia entry for the state of New York:
1664: Province of New York
1776: New York
And:
To differentiate the state from the city with the same name, it is sometimes called New York State.
But, strictly speaking, the city is named City of New York and the state is named New York.
answered Sep 1 at 16:59
Jason Bassford
8,6271926
edited Sep 2 at 1:42
answered Sep 1 at 16:59
Jason Bassford
8,6271926
answered Sep 1 at 16:59
Jason Bassford
8,6271926
answered Sep 1 at 16:59
Jason Bassford
8,6271926
8,6271926
11
When people know the context, they don't bother with city. When it's not clear, they clarify it. The same goes for New York state. One might be discussing, say, taxes, and it might not be clear whether they are referring to New York state taxes or New York City taxes. Officially, the name is NYC, New York City or City of New York. Caps are preferred.....But your answer is generally correct.
– Lambie
Sep 1 at 17:35
8
In my experience, for residents of the Acela corridor (i.e. the DC to Boston chain of cities), New York refers to the city while New York State refers to the state. If someone tells me they are going to New York, they don't mean Buffalo or Albany.
– kingledion
Sep 1 at 18:17
5
For other cities and states with the same name, it’s common to specify the city rather than the state, too (e.g. Oklahoma City but not Oklahoma State, unless you’re referring to the university.)
– bogardpd
Sep 1 at 18:32
7
I tried to edit this question but I ended up rolling it back. That said, please fix your second paragraph, as I think it's currently misleading to learners. The city's name is New York City (with a capital C, as @Lambie correctly points out). You can say, "New York refers to the city", or "New York City refers to the city," but saying "New York city is the phrase that was picked as the more common identifier" seems to make things more confusing, not less confusing.
– J.R.♦
Sep 1 at 20:08
2
@Lambie "Update New York" refers to (almost) everything north of the city for some people outside of the city as well. I grew up along the southern border with Pennsylvania, a few hundred miles/km northwest of NYC, and in that area we also consider ourselves part of upstate New York. I believe that's a regional variation.
– David Z
Sep 1 at 23:27
 |Â
show 9 more comments
11
When people know the context, they don't bother with city. When it's not clear, they clarify it. The same goes for New York state. One might be discussing, say, taxes, and it might not be clear whether they are referring to New York state taxes or New York City taxes. Officially, the name is NYC, New York City or City of New York. Caps are preferred.....But your answer is generally correct.
– Lambie
Sep 1 at 17:35
8
In my experience, for residents of the Acela corridor (i.e. the DC to Boston chain of cities), New York refers to the city while New York State refers to the state. If someone tells me they are going to New York, they don't mean Buffalo or Albany.
– kingledion
Sep 1 at 18:17
5
For other cities and states with the same name, it’s common to specify the city rather than the state, too (e.g. Oklahoma City but not Oklahoma State, unless you’re referring to the university.)
– bogardpd
Sep 1 at 18:32
7
I tried to edit this question but I ended up rolling it back. That said, please fix your second paragraph, as I think it's currently misleading to learners. The city's name is New York City (with a capital C, as @Lambie correctly points out). You can say, "New York refers to the city", or "New York City refers to the city," but saying "New York city is the phrase that was picked as the more common identifier" seems to make things more confusing, not less confusing.
– J.R.♦
Sep 1 at 20:08
2
@Lambie "Update New York" refers to (almost) everything north of the city for some people outside of the city as well. I grew up along the southern border with Pennsylvania, a few hundred miles/km northwest of NYC, and in that area we also consider ourselves part of upstate New York. I believe that's a regional variation.
– David Z
Sep 1 at 23:27
11
11
When people know the context, they don't bother with city. When it's not clear, they clarify it. The same goes for New York state. One might be discussing, say, taxes, and it might not be clear whether they are referring to New York state taxes or New York City taxes. Officially, the name is NYC, New York City or City of New York. Caps are preferred.....But your answer is generally correct.
– Lambie
Sep 1 at 17:35
When people know the context, they don't bother with city. When it's not clear, they clarify it. The same goes for New York state. One might be discussing, say, taxes, and it might not be clear whether they are referring to New York state taxes or New York City taxes. Officially, the name is NYC, New York City or City of New York. Caps are preferred.....But your answer is generally correct.
– Lambie
Sep 1 at 17:35
8
8
In my experience, for residents of the Acela corridor (i.e. the DC to Boston chain of cities), New York refers to the city while New York State refers to the state. If someone tells me they are going to New York, they don't mean Buffalo or Albany.
– kingledion
Sep 1 at 18:17
In my experience, for residents of the Acela corridor (i.e. the DC to Boston chain of cities), New York refers to the city while New York State refers to the state. If someone tells me they are going to New York, they don't mean Buffalo or Albany.
– kingledion
Sep 1 at 18:17
5
5
For other cities and states with the same name, it’s common to specify the city rather than the state, too (e.g. Oklahoma City but not Oklahoma State, unless you’re referring to the university.)
– bogardpd
Sep 1 at 18:32
For other cities and states with the same name, it’s common to specify the city rather than the state, too (e.g. Oklahoma City but not Oklahoma State, unless you’re referring to the university.)
– bogardpd
Sep 1 at 18:32
7
7
I tried to edit this question but I ended up rolling it back. That said, please fix your second paragraph, as I think it's currently misleading to learners. The city's name is New York City (with a capital C, as @Lambie correctly points out). You can say, "New York refers to the city", or "New York City refers to the city," but saying "New York city is the phrase that was picked as the more common identifier" seems to make things more confusing, not less confusing.
– J.R.♦
Sep 1 at 20:08
I tried to edit this question but I ended up rolling it back. That said, please fix your second paragraph, as I think it's currently misleading to learners. The city's name is New York City (with a capital C, as @Lambie correctly points out). You can say, "New York refers to the city", or "New York City refers to the city," but saying "New York city is the phrase that was picked as the more common identifier" seems to make things more confusing, not less confusing.
– J.R.♦
Sep 1 at 20:08
2
2
@Lambie "Update New York" refers to (almost) everything north of the city for some people outside of the city as well. I grew up along the southern border with Pennsylvania, a few hundred miles/km northwest of NYC, and in that area we also consider ourselves part of upstate New York. I believe that's a regional variation.
– David Z
Sep 1 at 23:27
@Lambie "Update New York" refers to (almost) everything north of the city for some people outside of the city as well. I grew up along the southern border with Pennsylvania, a few hundred miles/km northwest of NYC, and in that area we also consider ourselves part of upstate New York. I believe that's a regional variation.
– David Z
Sep 1 at 23:27
 |Â
show 9 more comments
up vote
18
down vote
While watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "city" to New York (New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English?
Adding the word "city" is not "stuff in English".
The name of the city is New York City. Quite often, though – perhaps because it happens to be one of the biggest and most famous cities in the world – this is shortened to New York.
To make matters a little bit more confusing, New York City happens to be in the state of New York, so, when someone says, "I drove through New York last month," that could mean a person drove across the state, or it could mean they drove through the city. But all ambiguity could be eliminated if they say, "I drove through New York City last month," or "I drove through New York state last month."
This is more a quirk of geographic names than it is a quirk of English. There is a town called Nebraska City in the state of Nebraska, but no one shortens that to Nebraska. When they say "Nebraska," they mean the state, and when they refer to the city, they call it "Nebraska City." The same is true for Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I have never heard anyone from Traverse City, Michigan refer to the city as "Traverse" (although I have heard it affectionately called "TC" by locals.) And, for the most part, no one calls Seattle, "Seattle City", or refers to Miami as "Miami City" (although you might read or hear "the city of Seattle" from time to time).
answered Sep 1 at 20:26
J.R.♦
94.7k7123237
2
On the other hand, there's a town called Oregon in Missouri, and that's just confusing.
– David Richerby
Sep 1 at 21:21
7
And of course we have Kansas City, which is mostly in Missouri...
– jcaron
Sep 1 at 22:26
2
As a note - "city of Seattle" is only used to differentiate it from the greater Seattle area which is not officially called Seattle. But if the "city of seattle" were located in a hypothetical state of "Seattle", the city itself would probably be named Seattle City or something similar. Postfix v.s. prefix.
– Knetic
Sep 2 at 0:49
4
Something else that adds to the confusion is that the USPS not only recognizes, but actually prefers, New York, NY over New York City, NY. In fact, they go so far as to say that New York City, NY is a city name to avoid. See here and test it out with an NYC zip code (e.g. 10004).
– mathewb
Sep 2 at 0:54
4
Another example where the name is just not enough is of course Washington State and Washington, D.C.
– Nassbirne
Sep 2 at 12:29
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
18
down vote
While watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "city" to New York (New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English?
Adding the word "city" is not "stuff in English".
The name of the city is New York City. Quite often, though – perhaps because it happens to be one of the biggest and most famous cities in the world – this is shortened to New York.
To make matters a little bit more confusing, New York City happens to be in the state of New York, so, when someone says, "I drove through New York last month," that could mean a person drove across the state, or it could mean they drove through the city. But all ambiguity could be eliminated if they say, "I drove through New York City last month," or "I drove through New York state last month."
This is more a quirk of geographic names than it is a quirk of English. There is a town called Nebraska City in the state of Nebraska, but no one shortens that to Nebraska. When they say "Nebraska," they mean the state, and when they refer to the city, they call it "Nebraska City." The same is true for Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I have never heard anyone from Traverse City, Michigan refer to the city as "Traverse" (although I have heard it affectionately called "TC" by locals.) And, for the most part, no one calls Seattle, "Seattle City", or refers to Miami as "Miami City" (although you might read or hear "the city of Seattle" from time to time).
answered Sep 1 at 20:26
J.R.♦
94.7k7123237
2
On the other hand, there's a town called Oregon in Missouri, and that's just confusing.
– David Richerby
Sep 1 at 21:21
7
And of course we have Kansas City, which is mostly in Missouri...
– jcaron
Sep 1 at 22:26
2
As a note - "city of Seattle" is only used to differentiate it from the greater Seattle area which is not officially called Seattle. But if the "city of seattle" were located in a hypothetical state of "Seattle", the city itself would probably be named Seattle City or something similar. Postfix v.s. prefix.
– Knetic
Sep 2 at 0:49
4
Something else that adds to the confusion is that the USPS not only recognizes, but actually prefers, New York, NY over New York City, NY. In fact, they go so far as to say that New York City, NY is a city name to avoid. See here and test it out with an NYC zip code (e.g. 10004).
– mathewb
Sep 2 at 0:54
4
Another example where the name is just not enough is of course Washington State and Washington, D.C.
– Nassbirne
Sep 2 at 12:29
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
18
down vote
up vote
18
down vote
While watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "city" to New York (New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English?
Adding the word "city" is not "stuff in English".
The name of the city is New York City. Quite often, though – perhaps because it happens to be one of the biggest and most famous cities in the world – this is shortened to New York.
To make matters a little bit more confusing, New York City happens to be in the state of New York, so, when someone says, "I drove through New York last month," that could mean a person drove across the state, or it could mean they drove through the city. But all ambiguity could be eliminated if they say, "I drove through New York City last month," or "I drove through New York state last month."
This is more a quirk of geographic names than it is a quirk of English. There is a town called Nebraska City in the state of Nebraska, but no one shortens that to Nebraska. When they say "Nebraska," they mean the state, and when they refer to the city, they call it "Nebraska City." The same is true for Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I have never heard anyone from Traverse City, Michigan refer to the city as "Traverse" (although I have heard it affectionately called "TC" by locals.) And, for the most part, no one calls Seattle, "Seattle City", or refers to Miami as "Miami City" (although you might read or hear "the city of Seattle" from time to time).
answered Sep 1 at 20:26
J.R.♦
94.7k7123237
While watching some videos/movies or reading books in English, I tend to see that people always adding the word "city" to New York (New York City).
What's behind this stuff in English?
Adding the word "city" is not "stuff in English".
The name of the city is New York City. Quite often, though – perhaps because it happens to be one of the biggest and most famous cities in the world – this is shortened to New York.
To make matters a little bit more confusing, New York City happens to be in the state of New York, so, when someone says, "I drove through New York last month," that could mean a person drove across the state, or it could mean they drove through the city. But all ambiguity could be eliminated if they say, "I drove through New York City last month," or "I drove through New York state last month."
This is more a quirk of geographic names than it is a quirk of English. There is a town called Nebraska City in the state of Nebraska, but no one shortens that to Nebraska. When they say "Nebraska," they mean the state, and when they refer to the city, they call it "Nebraska City." The same is true for Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I have never heard anyone from Traverse City, Michigan refer to the city as "Traverse" (although I have heard it affectionately called "TC" by locals.) And, for the most part, no one calls Seattle, "Seattle City", or refers to Miami as "Miami City" (although you might read or hear "the city of Seattle" from time to time).
answered Sep 1 at 20:26
J.R.♦
94.7k7123237
answered Sep 1 at 20:26
J.R.♦
94.7k7123237
answered Sep 1 at 20:26
J.R.♦
94.7k7123237
answered Sep 1 at 20:26
J.R.♦
94.7k7123237
94.7k7123237
2
On the other hand, there's a town called Oregon in Missouri, and that's just confusing.
– David Richerby
Sep 1 at 21:21
7
And of course we have Kansas City, which is mostly in Missouri...
– jcaron
Sep 1 at 22:26
2
As a note - "city of Seattle" is only used to differentiate it from the greater Seattle area which is not officially called Seattle. But if the "city of seattle" were located in a hypothetical state of "Seattle", the city itself would probably be named Seattle City or something similar. Postfix v.s. prefix.
– Knetic
Sep 2 at 0:49
4
Something else that adds to the confusion is that the USPS not only recognizes, but actually prefers, New York, NY over New York City, NY. In fact, they go so far as to say that New York City, NY is a city name to avoid. See here and test it out with an NYC zip code (e.g. 10004).
– mathewb
Sep 2 at 0:54
4
Another example where the name is just not enough is of course Washington State and Washington, D.C.
– Nassbirne
Sep 2 at 12:29
 |Â
show 3 more comments
2
On the other hand, there's a town called Oregon in Missouri, and that's just confusing.
– David Richerby
Sep 1 at 21:21
7
And of course we have Kansas City, which is mostly in Missouri...
– jcaron
Sep 1 at 22:26
2
As a note - "city of Seattle" is only used to differentiate it from the greater Seattle area which is not officially called Seattle. But if the "city of seattle" were located in a hypothetical state of "Seattle", the city itself would probably be named Seattle City or something similar. Postfix v.s. prefix.
– Knetic
Sep 2 at 0:49
4
Something else that adds to the confusion is that the USPS not only recognizes, but actually prefers, New York, NY over New York City, NY. In fact, they go so far as to say that New York City, NY is a city name to avoid. See here and test it out with an NYC zip code (e.g. 10004).
– mathewb
Sep 2 at 0:54
4
Another example where the name is just not enough is of course Washington State and Washington, D.C.
– Nassbirne
Sep 2 at 12:29
2
2
On the other hand, there's a town called Oregon in Missouri, and that's just confusing.
– David Richerby
Sep 1 at 21:21
On the other hand, there's a town called Oregon in Missouri, and that's just confusing.
– David Richerby
Sep 1 at 21:21
7
7
And of course we have Kansas City, which is mostly in Missouri...
– jcaron
Sep 1 at 22:26
And of course we have Kansas City, which is mostly in Missouri...
– jcaron
Sep 1 at 22:26
2
2
As a note - "city of Seattle" is only used to differentiate it from the greater Seattle area which is not officially called Seattle. But if the "city of seattle" were located in a hypothetical state of "Seattle", the city itself would probably be named Seattle City or something similar. Postfix v.s. prefix.
– Knetic
Sep 2 at 0:49
As a note - "city of Seattle" is only used to differentiate it from the greater Seattle area which is not officially called Seattle. But if the "city of seattle" were located in a hypothetical state of "Seattle", the city itself would probably be named Seattle City or something similar. Postfix v.s. prefix.
– Knetic
Sep 2 at 0:49
4
4
Something else that adds to the confusion is that the USPS not only recognizes, but actually prefers, New York, NY over New York City, NY. In fact, they go so far as to say that New York City, NY is a city name to avoid. See here and test it out with an NYC zip code (e.g. 10004).
– mathewb
Sep 2 at 0:54
Something else that adds to the confusion is that the USPS not only recognizes, but actually prefers, New York, NY over New York City, NY. In fact, they go so far as to say that New York City, NY is a city name to avoid. See here and test it out with an NYC zip code (e.g. 10004).
– mathewb
Sep 2 at 0:54
4
4
Another example where the name is just not enough is of course Washington State and Washington, D.C.
– Nassbirne
Sep 2 at 12:29
Another example where the name is just not enough is of course Washington State and Washington, D.C.
– Nassbirne
Sep 2 at 12:29
 |Â
show 3 more comments
up vote
7
down vote
If I tell people that my wife and her family are from New York, they frequently assume I'm talking about New York City (NYC). Only I'm not, I'm talking about a place that's 5 and half to six hours away by car. It's fairly important to say whether you mean NYC or New York State because the city comes to mind first for most Americans, not the state -- which is logical -- since 8 1/2 million people live there, making it the most populous city by far in the States. Far fewer people have been to what is commonly referred to by New York City inhabitants as "Upstate New York" or just "Upstate". This area is generally any area not New York City, as New York City itself sits on the southernmost latitude of the state in line with the state of Pennsylvania. Those people that do visit upstate generally only visit the Niagara Falls in Buffalo on the other side of the state, or visit the Adirondacks to the north.
answered Sep 2 at 0:49
Adam R. Turner
913
I agree with you. But I lived smack in the middle of it, and never said upstate New York unless I was going somewhere north of the Catskills. Not, for instance, if I was going up the Hudson Valley to, say, Tarrytown. I think there is a social status aspect to this as well. For many people, anything beyond the boroughs is another "country", except Long Island.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 15:16
I have two buddies from NYC from my time in the Army, they both referred to upstate this way, but then maybe not all the boroughs are the same. One was from Brooklyn, and I think the other was from Queens.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 16:20
By this way, you mean anything north of the city, right? Sorry, I can't tell what you meant.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 16:23
Ah, that's the rub. Yeah, I meant north of the city.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 23:17
@AdamR.Turner Were your friends Captain America and Spiderman?
– Oscar Bravo
Sep 3 at 6:43
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
7
down vote
If I tell people that my wife and her family are from New York, they frequently assume I'm talking about New York City (NYC). Only I'm not, I'm talking about a place that's 5 and half to six hours away by car. It's fairly important to say whether you mean NYC or New York State because the city comes to mind first for most Americans, not the state -- which is logical -- since 8 1/2 million people live there, making it the most populous city by far in the States. Far fewer people have been to what is commonly referred to by New York City inhabitants as "Upstate New York" or just "Upstate". This area is generally any area not New York City, as New York City itself sits on the southernmost latitude of the state in line with the state of Pennsylvania. Those people that do visit upstate generally only visit the Niagara Falls in Buffalo on the other side of the state, or visit the Adirondacks to the north.
answered Sep 2 at 0:49
Adam R. Turner
913
I agree with you. But I lived smack in the middle of it, and never said upstate New York unless I was going somewhere north of the Catskills. Not, for instance, if I was going up the Hudson Valley to, say, Tarrytown. I think there is a social status aspect to this as well. For many people, anything beyond the boroughs is another "country", except Long Island.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 15:16
I have two buddies from NYC from my time in the Army, they both referred to upstate this way, but then maybe not all the boroughs are the same. One was from Brooklyn, and I think the other was from Queens.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 16:20
By this way, you mean anything north of the city, right? Sorry, I can't tell what you meant.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 16:23
Ah, that's the rub. Yeah, I meant north of the city.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 23:17
@AdamR.Turner Were your friends Captain America and Spiderman?
– Oscar Bravo
Sep 3 at 6:43
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
If I tell people that my wife and her family are from New York, they frequently assume I'm talking about New York City (NYC). Only I'm not, I'm talking about a place that's 5 and half to six hours away by car. It's fairly important to say whether you mean NYC or New York State because the city comes to mind first for most Americans, not the state -- which is logical -- since 8 1/2 million people live there, making it the most populous city by far in the States. Far fewer people have been to what is commonly referred to by New York City inhabitants as "Upstate New York" or just "Upstate". This area is generally any area not New York City, as New York City itself sits on the southernmost latitude of the state in line with the state of Pennsylvania. Those people that do visit upstate generally only visit the Niagara Falls in Buffalo on the other side of the state, or visit the Adirondacks to the north.
answered Sep 2 at 0:49
Adam R. Turner
913
If I tell people that my wife and her family are from New York, they frequently assume I'm talking about New York City (NYC). Only I'm not, I'm talking about a place that's 5 and half to six hours away by car. It's fairly important to say whether you mean NYC or New York State because the city comes to mind first for most Americans, not the state -- which is logical -- since 8 1/2 million people live there, making it the most populous city by far in the States. Far fewer people have been to what is commonly referred to by New York City inhabitants as "Upstate New York" or just "Upstate". This area is generally any area not New York City, as New York City itself sits on the southernmost latitude of the state in line with the state of Pennsylvania. Those people that do visit upstate generally only visit the Niagara Falls in Buffalo on the other side of the state, or visit the Adirondacks to the north.
answered Sep 2 at 0:49
Adam R. Turner
913
answered Sep 2 at 0:49
Adam R. Turner
913
answered Sep 2 at 0:49
Adam R. Turner
913
answered Sep 2 at 0:49
Adam R. Turner
913
913
I agree with you. But I lived smack in the middle of it, and never said upstate New York unless I was going somewhere north of the Catskills. Not, for instance, if I was going up the Hudson Valley to, say, Tarrytown. I think there is a social status aspect to this as well. For many people, anything beyond the boroughs is another "country", except Long Island.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 15:16
I have two buddies from NYC from my time in the Army, they both referred to upstate this way, but then maybe not all the boroughs are the same. One was from Brooklyn, and I think the other was from Queens.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 16:20
By this way, you mean anything north of the city, right? Sorry, I can't tell what you meant.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 16:23
Ah, that's the rub. Yeah, I meant north of the city.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 23:17
@AdamR.Turner Were your friends Captain America and Spiderman?
– Oscar Bravo
Sep 3 at 6:43
 |Â
show 2 more comments
I agree with you. But I lived smack in the middle of it, and never said upstate New York unless I was going somewhere north of the Catskills. Not, for instance, if I was going up the Hudson Valley to, say, Tarrytown. I think there is a social status aspect to this as well. For many people, anything beyond the boroughs is another "country", except Long Island.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 15:16
I have two buddies from NYC from my time in the Army, they both referred to upstate this way, but then maybe not all the boroughs are the same. One was from Brooklyn, and I think the other was from Queens.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 16:20
By this way, you mean anything north of the city, right? Sorry, I can't tell what you meant.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 16:23
Ah, that's the rub. Yeah, I meant north of the city.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 23:17
@AdamR.Turner Were your friends Captain America and Spiderman?
– Oscar Bravo
Sep 3 at 6:43
I agree with you. But I lived smack in the middle of it, and never said upstate New York unless I was going somewhere north of the Catskills. Not, for instance, if I was going up the Hudson Valley to, say, Tarrytown. I think there is a social status aspect to this as well. For many people, anything beyond the boroughs is another "country", except Long Island.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 15:16
I agree with you. But I lived smack in the middle of it, and never said upstate New York unless I was going somewhere north of the Catskills. Not, for instance, if I was going up the Hudson Valley to, say, Tarrytown. I think there is a social status aspect to this as well. For many people, anything beyond the boroughs is another "country", except Long Island.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 15:16
I have two buddies from NYC from my time in the Army, they both referred to upstate this way, but then maybe not all the boroughs are the same. One was from Brooklyn, and I think the other was from Queens.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 16:20
I have two buddies from NYC from my time in the Army, they both referred to upstate this way, but then maybe not all the boroughs are the same. One was from Brooklyn, and I think the other was from Queens.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 16:20
By this way, you mean anything north of the city, right? Sorry, I can't tell what you meant.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 16:23
By this way, you mean anything north of the city, right? Sorry, I can't tell what you meant.
– Lambie
Sep 2 at 16:23
Ah, that's the rub. Yeah, I meant north of the city.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 23:17
Ah, that's the rub. Yeah, I meant north of the city.
– Adam R. Turner
Sep 2 at 23:17
@AdamR.Turner Were your friends Captain America and Spiderman?
– Oscar Bravo
Sep 3 at 6:43
@AdamR.Turner Were your friends Captain America and Spiderman?
– Oscar Bravo
Sep 3 at 6:43
 |Â
show 2 more comments
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3
London is another interesting example because most often when people say "London" the don't mean the "City of London". Most of the time when you're in London you are not in the City of London. The City of London is just a small part of London and is generally where the business district is. Unlike London, the City of London have very weird election rules because only recognised Guilds can vote (or appoint people to vote)
– slebetman
Sep 2 at 9:42
And then there is New York County.
– chux
Sep 2 at 18:21
@slebetman: it's not just Guilds; residents of the City can also vote - as can representatives of companies (link).
– Steve Melnikoff
Sep 3 at 14:10
@slebetman: There are also two cities in Greater London the City of London and the City of Westminister. Both places have the Letters of Patent issued by the Crown need to endow city status on a place. This is though a very particularly British definition of a city.
– Sarriesfan
Sep 3 at 16:49