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What equipment do I need to test an eye diagram for USB?
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I'd like to test USB full speed with a goal of testing high speed (480 Mbit/s), I have a tek scope that does 300 MHz (which I could upgrade to 500 MHz) and I'm looking at a 500 MHz differential probe. As I understand it I also need a breakout board (which I'm not quite sure is the best thing to get), but I'm looking at this board from tek and one listed here.
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Is this equipment list sufficient to preform an eye diagram test for full speed USB?
Is this equipment list sufficient to preform an eye diagram test for full speed USB if I have a 500 MHz scope?
digital-logic usb oscilloscope test-equipment
edited Aug 29 at 4:37
Nayuki
251210
asked Aug 28 at 18:20
laptop2d
20.7k123071
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
I'd like to test USB full speed with a goal of testing high speed (480 Mbit/s), I have a tek scope that does 300 MHz (which I could upgrade to 500 MHz) and I'm looking at a 500 MHz differential probe. As I understand it I also need a breakout board (which I'm not quite sure is the best thing to get), but I'm looking at this board from tek and one listed here.
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Is this equipment list sufficient to preform an eye diagram test for full speed USB?
Is this equipment list sufficient to preform an eye diagram test for full speed USB if I have a 500 MHz scope?
digital-logic usb oscilloscope test-equipment
edited Aug 29 at 4:37
Nayuki
251210
asked Aug 28 at 18:20
laptop2d
20.7k123071
The eye pattern tests use SMA 50 ohm terminations with good coax but the diff probes can measure in-circuit.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 28 at 18:57
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
I'd like to test USB full speed with a goal of testing high speed (480 Mbit/s), I have a tek scope that does 300 MHz (which I could upgrade to 500 MHz) and I'm looking at a 500 MHz differential probe. As I understand it I also need a breakout board (which I'm not quite sure is the best thing to get), but I'm looking at this board from tek and one listed here.
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Is this equipment list sufficient to preform an eye diagram test for full speed USB?
Is this equipment list sufficient to preform an eye diagram test for full speed USB if I have a 500 MHz scope?
digital-logic usb oscilloscope test-equipment
edited Aug 29 at 4:37
Nayuki
251210
asked Aug 28 at 18:20
laptop2d
20.7k123071
I'd like to test USB full speed with a goal of testing high speed (480 Mbit/s), I have a tek scope that does 300 MHz (which I could upgrade to 500 MHz) and I'm looking at a 500 MHz differential probe. As I understand it I also need a breakout board (which I'm not quite sure is the best thing to get), but I'm looking at this board from tek and one listed here.
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Is this equipment list sufficient to preform an eye diagram test for full speed USB?
Is this equipment list sufficient to preform an eye diagram test for full speed USB if I have a 500 MHz scope?
digital-logic usb oscilloscope test-equipment
edited Aug 29 at 4:37
Nayuki
251210
asked Aug 28 at 18:20
laptop2d
20.7k123071
edited Aug 29 at 4:37
Nayuki
251210
edited Aug 29 at 4:37
Nayuki
251210
edited Aug 29 at 4:37
Nayuki
251210
251210
asked Aug 28 at 18:20
laptop2d
20.7k123071
asked Aug 28 at 18:20
laptop2d
20.7k123071
asked Aug 28 at 18:20
laptop2d
20.7k123071
20.7k123071
The eye pattern tests use SMA 50 ohm terminations with good coax but the diff probes can measure in-circuit.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 28 at 18:57
add a comment |Â
The eye pattern tests use SMA 50 ohm terminations with good coax but the diff probes can measure in-circuit.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 28 at 18:57
The eye pattern tests use SMA 50 ohm terminations with good coax but the diff probes can measure in-circuit.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 28 at 18:57
The eye pattern tests use SMA 50 ohm terminations with good coax but the diff probes can measure in-circuit.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 28 at 18:57
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Minimum requirements for test equipment to use for USB 2.0 signal quality evaluation is listed at USB.org in the following place. There are links that describe electrical test procedures and tool requirement for Rohde&Schwartz, Tektronix, Agilent, LeCroy, and Yokogawa oscilloscopes.
Typically the eye evaluation software tools are offered on scopes with no less than 2GHz bandwidth. For Tektronix, the eligible scope series are TDS7254/B, TDS7704/B, CSA7404/B, TDS6604/B, TDS6804/B, TDS6404, DPO7254, DPO7354, and DPO/DSA70000. The smallest eligible oscilloscope for USB 2.0 testing is MSO/DPO5204.
For FS eveluation you don't need differential probes, the scope does it mathematically using single-ended probes.
However, the software package can't be installed on smaller bandwidth scopes, so, even if 500 MHz bandwidth is OK for FS eyes, it is unlikely that you can use this scope.
answered Aug 28 at 21:32
Ale..chenski
23k11756
Yeah, I think I'm out of luck on the HS testing, a new scope would be a significant capital expenditure. I'll stick with single ended testing on FS. I don't have that many HS devices anyway.
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 21:46
1
@laptop2d, DPO5204 is just $23K, and you will need a set of test fixtures, the cheapest one is from Allion for $1700, shop.allion.com/Product_List.asp?iGroupNum=4 The optional USB package might cost as well, but it may come with the test fixture. For HS you will need P6248 diff probe, another $6K. Yes, real USB development is pricey.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 0:08
1
You didn't mention that for the EYE PATTERN test the 2GHz probes must active FET buffered DIFF probes, ultra-balanced and ultra-low capacitance and ultra sensitive to ESD ( > 25V as I recall not 1kV) not just any 2 probes.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:01
1
Although Yokogawa has some nice 5GHz passive 500 Ohm 10:1 probes. 0.25pF 70ps Model 701974 PBL5000 5-GHz
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:20
@TonyEErocketscientist, I also forgot to mention that HS USB testing needs a pricey pattern generator (variable amplitude HS pattern at nanosecond rate), to test for very important parameter as receiver sensitivity (squelch/unsquelch), and that old probes would likely need expensive adapters (~$500 each) to accommodate the modern "Tek-probe" interfaces, unless the native TAP1500 probes (~$3K each) are purchased.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 16:21
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
7
down vote
If your signal has a fundamental at 500MHz, and you're trying to measure its characteristics, then you're not going to do well with a 500MHz scope because the scope won't capture any of the harmonics. You will need a higher bandwidth scope and probe if you want to make an accurate measurement of what's happening.
answered Aug 28 at 18:50
C_Elegans
2,076621
How about for full speed?
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 19:51
USB full speed is 12Mbit/s which is much less than 1/10-1/5 of your scope's bandwidth, so you should be able to do the measurement.
– C_Elegans
Aug 29 at 0:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
To test a USB high speed transmitter, you have to test the TP3 mask:
The horizontal position of point 3 is at 37.5% UI, and point 6 is at 62.5% UI, so you are trying to measure a rise-time of about 75% of 2.08 ns, or about 1.5 ns.
A 500 MHz scope will measure a minimum risetime of about $0.75/500 rm MHz$, or 1.5 ns.
You can estimate the risetime you measure will be about
$$tau_measapproxsqrttau_scope^2+tau_sig^2,$$
so a 500 MHz scope is not going to cut it. I'd look for at least 1 GHz, and 2 GHz will help if your product doesn't have much margin.
answered Aug 28 at 20:25
The Photon
79.2k394186
2
This mask is for HS eye, while OP is asking about FS evaluation.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 28 at 21:38
4
@AliChen, OP says they want to test "480mbit". That's high speed, not full speed. In any case they can use the same methodology to evaluate whether their instrument is adequate for full speed.
– The Photon
Aug 28 at 21:46
@ThePhoton I disagree with 0.75/f I know that the rise time is closer to 0.35/f as my LeCroy shows an arc with ~1ns rise time (10~90%) for ~300MHz BW consistent with theory. I can show photo and proof if you like.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:25
Maybe you are using 0 to 100%
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:35
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Minimum requirements for test equipment to use for USB 2.0 signal quality evaluation is listed at USB.org in the following place. There are links that describe electrical test procedures and tool requirement for Rohde&Schwartz, Tektronix, Agilent, LeCroy, and Yokogawa oscilloscopes.
Typically the eye evaluation software tools are offered on scopes with no less than 2GHz bandwidth. For Tektronix, the eligible scope series are TDS7254/B, TDS7704/B, CSA7404/B, TDS6604/B, TDS6804/B, TDS6404, DPO7254, DPO7354, and DPO/DSA70000. The smallest eligible oscilloscope for USB 2.0 testing is MSO/DPO5204.
For FS eveluation you don't need differential probes, the scope does it mathematically using single-ended probes.
However, the software package can't be installed on smaller bandwidth scopes, so, even if 500 MHz bandwidth is OK for FS eyes, it is unlikely that you can use this scope.
answered Aug 28 at 21:32
Ale..chenski
23k11756
Yeah, I think I'm out of luck on the HS testing, a new scope would be a significant capital expenditure. I'll stick with single ended testing on FS. I don't have that many HS devices anyway.
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 21:46
1
@laptop2d, DPO5204 is just $23K, and you will need a set of test fixtures, the cheapest one is from Allion for $1700, shop.allion.com/Product_List.asp?iGroupNum=4 The optional USB package might cost as well, but it may come with the test fixture. For HS you will need P6248 diff probe, another $6K. Yes, real USB development is pricey.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 0:08
1
You didn't mention that for the EYE PATTERN test the 2GHz probes must active FET buffered DIFF probes, ultra-balanced and ultra-low capacitance and ultra sensitive to ESD ( > 25V as I recall not 1kV) not just any 2 probes.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:01
1
Although Yokogawa has some nice 5GHz passive 500 Ohm 10:1 probes. 0.25pF 70ps Model 701974 PBL5000 5-GHz
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:20
@TonyEErocketscientist, I also forgot to mention that HS USB testing needs a pricey pattern generator (variable amplitude HS pattern at nanosecond rate), to test for very important parameter as receiver sensitivity (squelch/unsquelch), and that old probes would likely need expensive adapters (~$500 each) to accommodate the modern "Tek-probe" interfaces, unless the native TAP1500 probes (~$3K each) are purchased.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 16:21
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Minimum requirements for test equipment to use for USB 2.0 signal quality evaluation is listed at USB.org in the following place. There are links that describe electrical test procedures and tool requirement for Rohde&Schwartz, Tektronix, Agilent, LeCroy, and Yokogawa oscilloscopes.
Typically the eye evaluation software tools are offered on scopes with no less than 2GHz bandwidth. For Tektronix, the eligible scope series are TDS7254/B, TDS7704/B, CSA7404/B, TDS6604/B, TDS6804/B, TDS6404, DPO7254, DPO7354, and DPO/DSA70000. The smallest eligible oscilloscope for USB 2.0 testing is MSO/DPO5204.
For FS eveluation you don't need differential probes, the scope does it mathematically using single-ended probes.
However, the software package can't be installed on smaller bandwidth scopes, so, even if 500 MHz bandwidth is OK for FS eyes, it is unlikely that you can use this scope.
answered Aug 28 at 21:32
Ale..chenski
23k11756
Yeah, I think I'm out of luck on the HS testing, a new scope would be a significant capital expenditure. I'll stick with single ended testing on FS. I don't have that many HS devices anyway.
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 21:46
1
@laptop2d, DPO5204 is just $23K, and you will need a set of test fixtures, the cheapest one is from Allion for $1700, shop.allion.com/Product_List.asp?iGroupNum=4 The optional USB package might cost as well, but it may come with the test fixture. For HS you will need P6248 diff probe, another $6K. Yes, real USB development is pricey.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 0:08
1
You didn't mention that for the EYE PATTERN test the 2GHz probes must active FET buffered DIFF probes, ultra-balanced and ultra-low capacitance and ultra sensitive to ESD ( > 25V as I recall not 1kV) not just any 2 probes.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:01
1
Although Yokogawa has some nice 5GHz passive 500 Ohm 10:1 probes. 0.25pF 70ps Model 701974 PBL5000 5-GHz
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:20
@TonyEErocketscientist, I also forgot to mention that HS USB testing needs a pricey pattern generator (variable amplitude HS pattern at nanosecond rate), to test for very important parameter as receiver sensitivity (squelch/unsquelch), and that old probes would likely need expensive adapters (~$500 each) to accommodate the modern "Tek-probe" interfaces, unless the native TAP1500 probes (~$3K each) are purchased.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 16:21
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Minimum requirements for test equipment to use for USB 2.0 signal quality evaluation is listed at USB.org in the following place. There are links that describe electrical test procedures and tool requirement for Rohde&Schwartz, Tektronix, Agilent, LeCroy, and Yokogawa oscilloscopes.
Typically the eye evaluation software tools are offered on scopes with no less than 2GHz bandwidth. For Tektronix, the eligible scope series are TDS7254/B, TDS7704/B, CSA7404/B, TDS6604/B, TDS6804/B, TDS6404, DPO7254, DPO7354, and DPO/DSA70000. The smallest eligible oscilloscope for USB 2.0 testing is MSO/DPO5204.
For FS eveluation you don't need differential probes, the scope does it mathematically using single-ended probes.
However, the software package can't be installed on smaller bandwidth scopes, so, even if 500 MHz bandwidth is OK for FS eyes, it is unlikely that you can use this scope.
answered Aug 28 at 21:32
Ale..chenski
23k11756
What are the minimum requirements for a test like this?
Minimum requirements for test equipment to use for USB 2.0 signal quality evaluation is listed at USB.org in the following place. There are links that describe electrical test procedures and tool requirement for Rohde&Schwartz, Tektronix, Agilent, LeCroy, and Yokogawa oscilloscopes.
Typically the eye evaluation software tools are offered on scopes with no less than 2GHz bandwidth. For Tektronix, the eligible scope series are TDS7254/B, TDS7704/B, CSA7404/B, TDS6604/B, TDS6804/B, TDS6404, DPO7254, DPO7354, and DPO/DSA70000. The smallest eligible oscilloscope for USB 2.0 testing is MSO/DPO5204.
For FS eveluation you don't need differential probes, the scope does it mathematically using single-ended probes.
However, the software package can't be installed on smaller bandwidth scopes, so, even if 500 MHz bandwidth is OK for FS eyes, it is unlikely that you can use this scope.
answered Aug 28 at 21:32
Ale..chenski
23k11756
edited Aug 28 at 21:39
answered Aug 28 at 21:32
Ale..chenski
23k11756
answered Aug 28 at 21:32
Ale..chenski
23k11756
answered Aug 28 at 21:32
Ale..chenski
23k11756
23k11756
Yeah, I think I'm out of luck on the HS testing, a new scope would be a significant capital expenditure. I'll stick with single ended testing on FS. I don't have that many HS devices anyway.
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 21:46
1
@laptop2d, DPO5204 is just $23K, and you will need a set of test fixtures, the cheapest one is from Allion for $1700, shop.allion.com/Product_List.asp?iGroupNum=4 The optional USB package might cost as well, but it may come with the test fixture. For HS you will need P6248 diff probe, another $6K. Yes, real USB development is pricey.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 0:08
1
You didn't mention that for the EYE PATTERN test the 2GHz probes must active FET buffered DIFF probes, ultra-balanced and ultra-low capacitance and ultra sensitive to ESD ( > 25V as I recall not 1kV) not just any 2 probes.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:01
1
Although Yokogawa has some nice 5GHz passive 500 Ohm 10:1 probes. 0.25pF 70ps Model 701974 PBL5000 5-GHz
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:20
@TonyEErocketscientist, I also forgot to mention that HS USB testing needs a pricey pattern generator (variable amplitude HS pattern at nanosecond rate), to test for very important parameter as receiver sensitivity (squelch/unsquelch), and that old probes would likely need expensive adapters (~$500 each) to accommodate the modern "Tek-probe" interfaces, unless the native TAP1500 probes (~$3K each) are purchased.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 16:21
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Yeah, I think I'm out of luck on the HS testing, a new scope would be a significant capital expenditure. I'll stick with single ended testing on FS. I don't have that many HS devices anyway.
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 21:46
1
@laptop2d, DPO5204 is just $23K, and you will need a set of test fixtures, the cheapest one is from Allion for $1700, shop.allion.com/Product_List.asp?iGroupNum=4 The optional USB package might cost as well, but it may come with the test fixture. For HS you will need P6248 diff probe, another $6K. Yes, real USB development is pricey.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 0:08
1
You didn't mention that for the EYE PATTERN test the 2GHz probes must active FET buffered DIFF probes, ultra-balanced and ultra-low capacitance and ultra sensitive to ESD ( > 25V as I recall not 1kV) not just any 2 probes.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:01
1
Although Yokogawa has some nice 5GHz passive 500 Ohm 10:1 probes. 0.25pF 70ps Model 701974 PBL5000 5-GHz
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:20
@TonyEErocketscientist, I also forgot to mention that HS USB testing needs a pricey pattern generator (variable amplitude HS pattern at nanosecond rate), to test for very important parameter as receiver sensitivity (squelch/unsquelch), and that old probes would likely need expensive adapters (~$500 each) to accommodate the modern "Tek-probe" interfaces, unless the native TAP1500 probes (~$3K each) are purchased.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 16:21
Yeah, I think I'm out of luck on the HS testing, a new scope would be a significant capital expenditure. I'll stick with single ended testing on FS. I don't have that many HS devices anyway.
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 21:46
Yeah, I think I'm out of luck on the HS testing, a new scope would be a significant capital expenditure. I'll stick with single ended testing on FS. I don't have that many HS devices anyway.
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 21:46
1
1
@laptop2d, DPO5204 is just $23K, and you will need a set of test fixtures, the cheapest one is from Allion for $1700, shop.allion.com/Product_List.asp?iGroupNum=4 The optional USB package might cost as well, but it may come with the test fixture. For HS you will need P6248 diff probe, another $6K. Yes, real USB development is pricey.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 0:08
@laptop2d, DPO5204 is just $23K, and you will need a set of test fixtures, the cheapest one is from Allion for $1700, shop.allion.com/Product_List.asp?iGroupNum=4 The optional USB package might cost as well, but it may come with the test fixture. For HS you will need P6248 diff probe, another $6K. Yes, real USB development is pricey.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 0:08
1
1
You didn't mention that for the EYE PATTERN test the 2GHz probes must active FET buffered DIFF probes, ultra-balanced and ultra-low capacitance and ultra sensitive to ESD ( > 25V as I recall not 1kV) not just any 2 probes.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:01
You didn't mention that for the EYE PATTERN test the 2GHz probes must active FET buffered DIFF probes, ultra-balanced and ultra-low capacitance and ultra sensitive to ESD ( > 25V as I recall not 1kV) not just any 2 probes.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:01
1
1
Although Yokogawa has some nice 5GHz passive 500 Ohm 10:1 probes. 0.25pF 70ps Model 701974 PBL5000 5-GHz
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:20
Although Yokogawa has some nice 5GHz passive 500 Ohm 10:1 probes. 0.25pF 70ps Model 701974 PBL5000 5-GHz
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 5:20
@TonyEErocketscientist, I also forgot to mention that HS USB testing needs a pricey pattern generator (variable amplitude HS pattern at nanosecond rate), to test for very important parameter as receiver sensitivity (squelch/unsquelch), and that old probes would likely need expensive adapters (~$500 each) to accommodate the modern "Tek-probe" interfaces, unless the native TAP1500 probes (~$3K each) are purchased.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 16:21
@TonyEErocketscientist, I also forgot to mention that HS USB testing needs a pricey pattern generator (variable amplitude HS pattern at nanosecond rate), to test for very important parameter as receiver sensitivity (squelch/unsquelch), and that old probes would likely need expensive adapters (~$500 each) to accommodate the modern "Tek-probe" interfaces, unless the native TAP1500 probes (~$3K each) are purchased.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 29 at 16:21
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
7
down vote
If your signal has a fundamental at 500MHz, and you're trying to measure its characteristics, then you're not going to do well with a 500MHz scope because the scope won't capture any of the harmonics. You will need a higher bandwidth scope and probe if you want to make an accurate measurement of what's happening.
answered Aug 28 at 18:50
C_Elegans
2,076621
How about for full speed?
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 19:51
USB full speed is 12Mbit/s which is much less than 1/10-1/5 of your scope's bandwidth, so you should be able to do the measurement.
– C_Elegans
Aug 29 at 0:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
If your signal has a fundamental at 500MHz, and you're trying to measure its characteristics, then you're not going to do well with a 500MHz scope because the scope won't capture any of the harmonics. You will need a higher bandwidth scope and probe if you want to make an accurate measurement of what's happening.
answered Aug 28 at 18:50
C_Elegans
2,076621
How about for full speed?
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 19:51
USB full speed is 12Mbit/s which is much less than 1/10-1/5 of your scope's bandwidth, so you should be able to do the measurement.
– C_Elegans
Aug 29 at 0:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
If your signal has a fundamental at 500MHz, and you're trying to measure its characteristics, then you're not going to do well with a 500MHz scope because the scope won't capture any of the harmonics. You will need a higher bandwidth scope and probe if you want to make an accurate measurement of what's happening.
answered Aug 28 at 18:50
C_Elegans
2,076621
If your signal has a fundamental at 500MHz, and you're trying to measure its characteristics, then you're not going to do well with a 500MHz scope because the scope won't capture any of the harmonics. You will need a higher bandwidth scope and probe if you want to make an accurate measurement of what's happening.
answered Aug 28 at 18:50
C_Elegans
2,076621
answered Aug 28 at 18:50
C_Elegans
2,076621
answered Aug 28 at 18:50
C_Elegans
2,076621
answered Aug 28 at 18:50
C_Elegans
2,076621
2,076621
How about for full speed?
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 19:51
USB full speed is 12Mbit/s which is much less than 1/10-1/5 of your scope's bandwidth, so you should be able to do the measurement.
– C_Elegans
Aug 29 at 0:47
add a comment |Â
How about for full speed?
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 19:51
USB full speed is 12Mbit/s which is much less than 1/10-1/5 of your scope's bandwidth, so you should be able to do the measurement.
– C_Elegans
Aug 29 at 0:47
How about for full speed?
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 19:51
How about for full speed?
– laptop2d
Aug 28 at 19:51
USB full speed is 12Mbit/s which is much less than 1/10-1/5 of your scope's bandwidth, so you should be able to do the measurement.
– C_Elegans
Aug 29 at 0:47
USB full speed is 12Mbit/s which is much less than 1/10-1/5 of your scope's bandwidth, so you should be able to do the measurement.
– C_Elegans
Aug 29 at 0:47
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
To test a USB high speed transmitter, you have to test the TP3 mask:
The horizontal position of point 3 is at 37.5% UI, and point 6 is at 62.5% UI, so you are trying to measure a rise-time of about 75% of 2.08 ns, or about 1.5 ns.
A 500 MHz scope will measure a minimum risetime of about $0.75/500 rm MHz$, or 1.5 ns.
You can estimate the risetime you measure will be about
$$tau_measapproxsqrttau_scope^2+tau_sig^2,$$
so a 500 MHz scope is not going to cut it. I'd look for at least 1 GHz, and 2 GHz will help if your product doesn't have much margin.
answered Aug 28 at 20:25
The Photon
79.2k394186
2
This mask is for HS eye, while OP is asking about FS evaluation.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 28 at 21:38
4
@AliChen, OP says they want to test "480mbit". That's high speed, not full speed. In any case they can use the same methodology to evaluate whether their instrument is adequate for full speed.
– The Photon
Aug 28 at 21:46
@ThePhoton I disagree with 0.75/f I know that the rise time is closer to 0.35/f as my LeCroy shows an arc with ~1ns rise time (10~90%) for ~300MHz BW consistent with theory. I can show photo and proof if you like.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:25
Maybe you are using 0 to 100%
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
To test a USB high speed transmitter, you have to test the TP3 mask:
The horizontal position of point 3 is at 37.5% UI, and point 6 is at 62.5% UI, so you are trying to measure a rise-time of about 75% of 2.08 ns, or about 1.5 ns.
A 500 MHz scope will measure a minimum risetime of about $0.75/500 rm MHz$, or 1.5 ns.
You can estimate the risetime you measure will be about
$$tau_measapproxsqrttau_scope^2+tau_sig^2,$$
so a 500 MHz scope is not going to cut it. I'd look for at least 1 GHz, and 2 GHz will help if your product doesn't have much margin.
answered Aug 28 at 20:25
The Photon
79.2k394186
2
This mask is for HS eye, while OP is asking about FS evaluation.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 28 at 21:38
4
@AliChen, OP says they want to test "480mbit". That's high speed, not full speed. In any case they can use the same methodology to evaluate whether their instrument is adequate for full speed.
– The Photon
Aug 28 at 21:46
@ThePhoton I disagree with 0.75/f I know that the rise time is closer to 0.35/f as my LeCroy shows an arc with ~1ns rise time (10~90%) for ~300MHz BW consistent with theory. I can show photo and proof if you like.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:25
Maybe you are using 0 to 100%
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
To test a USB high speed transmitter, you have to test the TP3 mask:
The horizontal position of point 3 is at 37.5% UI, and point 6 is at 62.5% UI, so you are trying to measure a rise-time of about 75% of 2.08 ns, or about 1.5 ns.
A 500 MHz scope will measure a minimum risetime of about $0.75/500 rm MHz$, or 1.5 ns.
You can estimate the risetime you measure will be about
$$tau_measapproxsqrttau_scope^2+tau_sig^2,$$
so a 500 MHz scope is not going to cut it. I'd look for at least 1 GHz, and 2 GHz will help if your product doesn't have much margin.
answered Aug 28 at 20:25
The Photon
79.2k394186
To test a USB high speed transmitter, you have to test the TP3 mask:
The horizontal position of point 3 is at 37.5% UI, and point 6 is at 62.5% UI, so you are trying to measure a rise-time of about 75% of 2.08 ns, or about 1.5 ns.
A 500 MHz scope will measure a minimum risetime of about $0.75/500 rm MHz$, or 1.5 ns.
You can estimate the risetime you measure will be about
$$tau_measapproxsqrttau_scope^2+tau_sig^2,$$
so a 500 MHz scope is not going to cut it. I'd look for at least 1 GHz, and 2 GHz will help if your product doesn't have much margin.
answered Aug 28 at 20:25
The Photon
79.2k394186
edited Aug 28 at 21:40
answered Aug 28 at 20:25
The Photon
79.2k394186
answered Aug 28 at 20:25
The Photon
79.2k394186
answered Aug 28 at 20:25
The Photon
79.2k394186
79.2k394186
2
This mask is for HS eye, while OP is asking about FS evaluation.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 28 at 21:38
4
@AliChen, OP says they want to test "480mbit". That's high speed, not full speed. In any case they can use the same methodology to evaluate whether their instrument is adequate for full speed.
– The Photon
Aug 28 at 21:46
@ThePhoton I disagree with 0.75/f I know that the rise time is closer to 0.35/f as my LeCroy shows an arc with ~1ns rise time (10~90%) for ~300MHz BW consistent with theory. I can show photo and proof if you like.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:25
Maybe you are using 0 to 100%
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:35
add a comment |Â
2
This mask is for HS eye, while OP is asking about FS evaluation.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 28 at 21:38
4
@AliChen, OP says they want to test "480mbit". That's high speed, not full speed. In any case they can use the same methodology to evaluate whether their instrument is adequate for full speed.
– The Photon
Aug 28 at 21:46
@ThePhoton I disagree with 0.75/f I know that the rise time is closer to 0.35/f as my LeCroy shows an arc with ~1ns rise time (10~90%) for ~300MHz BW consistent with theory. I can show photo and proof if you like.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:25
Maybe you are using 0 to 100%
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:35
2
2
This mask is for HS eye, while OP is asking about FS evaluation.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 28 at 21:38
This mask is for HS eye, while OP is asking about FS evaluation.
– Ale..chenski
Aug 28 at 21:38
4
4
@AliChen, OP says they want to test "480mbit". That's high speed, not full speed. In any case they can use the same methodology to evaluate whether their instrument is adequate for full speed.
– The Photon
Aug 28 at 21:46
@AliChen, OP says they want to test "480mbit". That's high speed, not full speed. In any case they can use the same methodology to evaluate whether their instrument is adequate for full speed.
– The Photon
Aug 28 at 21:46
@ThePhoton I disagree with 0.75/f I know that the rise time is closer to 0.35/f as my LeCroy shows an arc with ~1ns rise time (10~90%) for ~300MHz BW consistent with theory. I can show photo and proof if you like.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:25
@ThePhoton I disagree with 0.75/f I know that the rise time is closer to 0.35/f as my LeCroy shows an arc with ~1ns rise time (10~90%) for ~300MHz BW consistent with theory. I can show photo and proof if you like.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:25
Maybe you are using 0 to 100%
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:35
Maybe you are using 0 to 100%
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 29 at 18:35
add a comment |Â
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The eye pattern tests use SMA 50 ohm terminations with good coax but the diff probes can measure in-circuit.
– Tony EE rocketscientist
Aug 28 at 18:57