Mixing
How can I counter the argument “there is better and there is worseâ€
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Situation:
I would like to know what is the best answer to this argument in order to recenter the discussion on the main subject that should not be affected by what other does. I think that this argument is an easy trick to avoid any change and sometimes to just avoid a discussion.
Example :
A : I think that we should improve [something].
B : Why do you want this ? You know, there is always better and worse, you should accept what we have now.
Question
How can I counter the argument "there is better and worse" in order to make the interlocutor feels like he did not used a valid argument ?
conversations argument
asked 2 hours ago
Maverick
9353816
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Situation:
I would like to know what is the best answer to this argument in order to recenter the discussion on the main subject that should not be affected by what other does. I think that this argument is an easy trick to avoid any change and sometimes to just avoid a discussion.
Example :
A : I think that we should improve [something].
B : Why do you want this ? You know, there is always better and worse, you should accept what we have now.
Question
How can I counter the argument "there is better and worse" in order to make the interlocutor feels like he did not used a valid argument ?
conversations argument
asked 2 hours ago
Maverick
9353816
Please state the context. Are we talking about professional decisions, over the internet with a stranger or what to eat at dinner with your spouse? There is no default response that wins you an argument. Ideally you should be really specific and state where you have encountered people saying that and what your goal was, e.g. urging them to reconsider a decision at work or selling them something else. You kind of specify your goal but it's super abstract and at least to me it could mean anything
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Actually, there is so many context where I've heard that argument, I can't decide which one is the best. Btw, some people seems to give me good answer even without context.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
Btw I want to point out the irony of you basically saying: the answers could be better or worse, let's just accept them as they are. (I know some mod will be angry with me, but I'd argue pointing out such inconsistencies should help improving the question). So please be more specific
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
People use that argument everywhere and I want to counter it because it is a general argument that in fact has a weight for no reason, that's clearly what I'm saying in my post and I think that you're missing that point.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
I already gave you counter arguments to that. Someone is just going to move this to chat again. There is no standard strategy you can apply to every situation. Someone more capable than you will tear right through it if you try. If you say you encounter this in every possible situation and you can only remember one strategy, fine. In that case, it might help if you could tell more about how you go about it. Do you have trouble in general arguing? How do you usually respond? What is the reaction?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
Situation:
I would like to know what is the best answer to this argument in order to recenter the discussion on the main subject that should not be affected by what other does. I think that this argument is an easy trick to avoid any change and sometimes to just avoid a discussion.
Example :
A : I think that we should improve [something].
B : Why do you want this ? You know, there is always better and worse, you should accept what we have now.
Question
How can I counter the argument "there is better and worse" in order to make the interlocutor feels like he did not used a valid argument ?
conversations argument
asked 2 hours ago
Maverick
9353816
Situation:
I would like to know what is the best answer to this argument in order to recenter the discussion on the main subject that should not be affected by what other does. I think that this argument is an easy trick to avoid any change and sometimes to just avoid a discussion.
Example :
A : I think that we should improve [something].
B : Why do you want this ? You know, there is always better and worse, you should accept what we have now.
Question
How can I counter the argument "there is better and worse" in order to make the interlocutor feels like he did not used a valid argument ?
conversations argument
conversations argument
asked 2 hours ago
Maverick
9353816
asked 2 hours ago
Maverick
9353816
asked 2 hours ago
Maverick
9353816
asked 2 hours ago
Maverick
9353816
asked 2 hours ago
Maverick
9353816
9353816
Please state the context. Are we talking about professional decisions, over the internet with a stranger or what to eat at dinner with your spouse? There is no default response that wins you an argument. Ideally you should be really specific and state where you have encountered people saying that and what your goal was, e.g. urging them to reconsider a decision at work or selling them something else. You kind of specify your goal but it's super abstract and at least to me it could mean anything
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Actually, there is so many context where I've heard that argument, I can't decide which one is the best. Btw, some people seems to give me good answer even without context.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
Btw I want to point out the irony of you basically saying: the answers could be better or worse, let's just accept them as they are. (I know some mod will be angry with me, but I'd argue pointing out such inconsistencies should help improving the question). So please be more specific
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
People use that argument everywhere and I want to counter it because it is a general argument that in fact has a weight for no reason, that's clearly what I'm saying in my post and I think that you're missing that point.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
I already gave you counter arguments to that. Someone is just going to move this to chat again. There is no standard strategy you can apply to every situation. Someone more capable than you will tear right through it if you try. If you say you encounter this in every possible situation and you can only remember one strategy, fine. In that case, it might help if you could tell more about how you go about it. Do you have trouble in general arguing? How do you usually respond? What is the reaction?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
Please state the context. Are we talking about professional decisions, over the internet with a stranger or what to eat at dinner with your spouse? There is no default response that wins you an argument. Ideally you should be really specific and state where you have encountered people saying that and what your goal was, e.g. urging them to reconsider a decision at work or selling them something else. You kind of specify your goal but it's super abstract and at least to me it could mean anything
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Actually, there is so many context where I've heard that argument, I can't decide which one is the best. Btw, some people seems to give me good answer even without context.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
Btw I want to point out the irony of you basically saying: the answers could be better or worse, let's just accept them as they are. (I know some mod will be angry with me, but I'd argue pointing out such inconsistencies should help improving the question). So please be more specific
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
People use that argument everywhere and I want to counter it because it is a general argument that in fact has a weight for no reason, that's clearly what I'm saying in my post and I think that you're missing that point.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
I already gave you counter arguments to that. Someone is just going to move this to chat again. There is no standard strategy you can apply to every situation. Someone more capable than you will tear right through it if you try. If you say you encounter this in every possible situation and you can only remember one strategy, fine. In that case, it might help if you could tell more about how you go about it. Do you have trouble in general arguing? How do you usually respond? What is the reaction?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Please state the context. Are we talking about professional decisions, over the internet with a stranger or what to eat at dinner with your spouse? There is no default response that wins you an argument. Ideally you should be really specific and state where you have encountered people saying that and what your goal was, e.g. urging them to reconsider a decision at work or selling them something else. You kind of specify your goal but it's super abstract and at least to me it could mean anything
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Please state the context. Are we talking about professional decisions, over the internet with a stranger or what to eat at dinner with your spouse? There is no default response that wins you an argument. Ideally you should be really specific and state where you have encountered people saying that and what your goal was, e.g. urging them to reconsider a decision at work or selling them something else. You kind of specify your goal but it's super abstract and at least to me it could mean anything
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Actually, there is so many context where I've heard that argument, I can't decide which one is the best. Btw, some people seems to give me good answer even without context.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
Actually, there is so many context where I've heard that argument, I can't decide which one is the best. Btw, some people seems to give me good answer even without context.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
Btw I want to point out the irony of you basically saying: the answers could be better or worse, let's just accept them as they are. (I know some mod will be angry with me, but I'd argue pointing out such inconsistencies should help improving the question). So please be more specific
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Btw I want to point out the irony of you basically saying: the answers could be better or worse, let's just accept them as they are. (I know some mod will be angry with me, but I'd argue pointing out such inconsistencies should help improving the question). So please be more specific
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
People use that argument everywhere and I want to counter it because it is a general argument that in fact has a weight for no reason, that's clearly what I'm saying in my post and I think that you're missing that point.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
People use that argument everywhere and I want to counter it because it is a general argument that in fact has a weight for no reason, that's clearly what I'm saying in my post and I think that you're missing that point.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
I already gave you counter arguments to that. Someone is just going to move this to chat again. There is no standard strategy you can apply to every situation. Someone more capable than you will tear right through it if you try. If you say you encounter this in every possible situation and you can only remember one strategy, fine. In that case, it might help if you could tell more about how you go about it. Do you have trouble in general arguing? How do you usually respond? What is the reaction?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
I already gave you counter arguments to that. Someone is just going to move this to chat again. There is no standard strategy you can apply to every situation. Someone more capable than you will tear right through it if you try. If you say you encounter this in every possible situation and you can only remember one strategy, fine. In that case, it might help if you could tell more about how you go about it. Do you have trouble in general arguing? How do you usually respond? What is the reaction?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
 |Â
show 1 more comment
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
I always hated this argument too. In this kind of situation, I use the following answer:
I know there is always better and worse, it doesn't mean we should do nothing in order to improve things!
And then, I usually go with a long tirade about how it is the responsibility of every one to make the world a better place.
Warning: The other person might get defensive after that, but they will definitively understand that you don't think "there is better and worse" is a valid answer.
I generally use this technic in an activist setting when someone (not an activist) suggest that we should do nothing because "There are bigger problems", "It is what it is" and "It's not that bad".
answered 2 hours ago
Noon
2,5631726
This sounds great in theory. I wonder if it actually works. My best guess is that it gives you say 80% of the desired result 80% of the time, not working at all in some situations. I'm going to be honest, if my wife gave me that response over an argument, it would just make me laugh because it's so out of place. That's just me, but an example where it would fail on its own. Could you include a statement to how well such a standard answer works for you in various situations?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
@Raditz_35 I edited my response but, it made me think, did I misunderstood what "there is better and worse" mean?
– Noon
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is now a decent response for that specific situation. I see no issue with your interpretation, that would make 2 of us then which should urge the op to clarify
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
I guess that making the other person in a defensive state is almost inevitable because people using that argument tend to avoid the discussion.
– Maverick
44 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In a business environment, you would say “Tell that to our customers. And then tell it to our competitors.â€Â
Elsewhere you might say “You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not. “ If they use this argument a lot to derail things you can say “We can do here without this defeatist attitude.†That’s not too polite, but if you think someone is intentionally trying to stop improvements then this may be the right thing to say.
answered 2 hours ago
gnasher729
5,27531716
"You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not." That's a clear way to say "I do have something to say and it has to be heard". I like it.
– Maverick
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Your question can be re-framed as being overcoming resistance to change.
In my experience reasons include:
- The potential to be worse off as a result of the change
- Fear of the unknown
- Effort exceeding reward
- Ego - it is someone elses idea
When speaking about change, you should therefore frame the conversation around the benefits the change will bring, and describe the way in which the change will occur.
Even ego can be overcome by seeding the idea in a conversation and then later referring to the conversation in terms of 'you know that idea we came up with last week'.
In the example you gave you asked the wrong question - you told rather than sold.
An online search for 'overcoming resistance for change' will give you a wealth of information, although most of it is aimed at corporate change.
answered 56 mins ago
DodgyG33za
1112
New contributor
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
There is a time for a lengthy, well thought out argument, and equally there are times when it can be unhelpful to use that approach. In controlled debates where two speakers are given an amount of time to speak freely without questions, a person may have the time to carefully dismantle an opponent's position and show it to be incorrect or unhelpful, and then make their own point in whatever manner they feel is best. However, in less controlled situations such as open meetings where anybody is free to interject and speak over you if they wish, taking too long to make your point can be disastrous. You may begin to make a very good point but get interrupted and criticised over an incomplete statement.
You're asking how to fight a clichéd argument, so naturally you probably don't want to resort to clichés yourself. Hopefully my suggestions below are not too clichéd, but my point is that a brief counter statement before you make any detailed argument is the best approach if you think that you may be interrupted.
I'm going to assume the example of a business context, where you have made an argument for improvement and somebody else is arguing to keep the business model as it is. The arguments could easily be adapted to other contexts.
Perhaps you could counter such a statement with:
True, there are worse models than ours; but that should not be a reason for not wanting to improve and become one of the best. If we are neither the worst nor the best then we are mediocre.
Or
Many of our competitors have programs of continuous improvement. If we do nothing, we will be left behind. If we are not moving forwards with everybody else, it is the same as going backwards.
Neither of these approaches directly attack the idea that "there are better and there are worse" or show that to be a fallacy, but rather they show that other external factors mean that refusing to change or improve is not viable.
answered 1 hour ago
Astralbee
19.6k34682
1
Clever answer. I like the idea to avoid using a clichéd counter against a clichéd answer. I think that's actually the best way to say that you have a viable argument without being rude to the other person.
– Maverick
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
I always hated this argument too. In this kind of situation, I use the following answer:
I know there is always better and worse, it doesn't mean we should do nothing in order to improve things!
And then, I usually go with a long tirade about how it is the responsibility of every one to make the world a better place.
Warning: The other person might get defensive after that, but they will definitively understand that you don't think "there is better and worse" is a valid answer.
I generally use this technic in an activist setting when someone (not an activist) suggest that we should do nothing because "There are bigger problems", "It is what it is" and "It's not that bad".
answered 2 hours ago
Noon
2,5631726
This sounds great in theory. I wonder if it actually works. My best guess is that it gives you say 80% of the desired result 80% of the time, not working at all in some situations. I'm going to be honest, if my wife gave me that response over an argument, it would just make me laugh because it's so out of place. That's just me, but an example where it would fail on its own. Could you include a statement to how well such a standard answer works for you in various situations?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
@Raditz_35 I edited my response but, it made me think, did I misunderstood what "there is better and worse" mean?
– Noon
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is now a decent response for that specific situation. I see no issue with your interpretation, that would make 2 of us then which should urge the op to clarify
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
I guess that making the other person in a defensive state is almost inevitable because people using that argument tend to avoid the discussion.
– Maverick
44 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I always hated this argument too. In this kind of situation, I use the following answer:
I know there is always better and worse, it doesn't mean we should do nothing in order to improve things!
And then, I usually go with a long tirade about how it is the responsibility of every one to make the world a better place.
Warning: The other person might get defensive after that, but they will definitively understand that you don't think "there is better and worse" is a valid answer.
I generally use this technic in an activist setting when someone (not an activist) suggest that we should do nothing because "There are bigger problems", "It is what it is" and "It's not that bad".
answered 2 hours ago
Noon
2,5631726
This sounds great in theory. I wonder if it actually works. My best guess is that it gives you say 80% of the desired result 80% of the time, not working at all in some situations. I'm going to be honest, if my wife gave me that response over an argument, it would just make me laugh because it's so out of place. That's just me, but an example where it would fail on its own. Could you include a statement to how well such a standard answer works for you in various situations?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
@Raditz_35 I edited my response but, it made me think, did I misunderstood what "there is better and worse" mean?
– Noon
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is now a decent response for that specific situation. I see no issue with your interpretation, that would make 2 of us then which should urge the op to clarify
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
I guess that making the other person in a defensive state is almost inevitable because people using that argument tend to avoid the discussion.
– Maverick
44 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I always hated this argument too. In this kind of situation, I use the following answer:
I know there is always better and worse, it doesn't mean we should do nothing in order to improve things!
And then, I usually go with a long tirade about how it is the responsibility of every one to make the world a better place.
Warning: The other person might get defensive after that, but they will definitively understand that you don't think "there is better and worse" is a valid answer.
I generally use this technic in an activist setting when someone (not an activist) suggest that we should do nothing because "There are bigger problems", "It is what it is" and "It's not that bad".
answered 2 hours ago
Noon
2,5631726
I always hated this argument too. In this kind of situation, I use the following answer:
I know there is always better and worse, it doesn't mean we should do nothing in order to improve things!
And then, I usually go with a long tirade about how it is the responsibility of every one to make the world a better place.
Warning: The other person might get defensive after that, but they will definitively understand that you don't think "there is better and worse" is a valid answer.
I generally use this technic in an activist setting when someone (not an activist) suggest that we should do nothing because "There are bigger problems", "It is what it is" and "It's not that bad".
answered 2 hours ago
Noon
2,5631726
edited 1 hour ago
answered 2 hours ago
Noon
2,5631726
answered 2 hours ago
Noon
2,5631726
answered 2 hours ago
Noon
2,5631726
2,5631726
This sounds great in theory. I wonder if it actually works. My best guess is that it gives you say 80% of the desired result 80% of the time, not working at all in some situations. I'm going to be honest, if my wife gave me that response over an argument, it would just make me laugh because it's so out of place. That's just me, but an example where it would fail on its own. Could you include a statement to how well such a standard answer works for you in various situations?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
@Raditz_35 I edited my response but, it made me think, did I misunderstood what "there is better and worse" mean?
– Noon
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is now a decent response for that specific situation. I see no issue with your interpretation, that would make 2 of us then which should urge the op to clarify
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
I guess that making the other person in a defensive state is almost inevitable because people using that argument tend to avoid the discussion.
– Maverick
44 mins ago
add a comment |Â
This sounds great in theory. I wonder if it actually works. My best guess is that it gives you say 80% of the desired result 80% of the time, not working at all in some situations. I'm going to be honest, if my wife gave me that response over an argument, it would just make me laugh because it's so out of place. That's just me, but an example where it would fail on its own. Could you include a statement to how well such a standard answer works for you in various situations?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
@Raditz_35 I edited my response but, it made me think, did I misunderstood what "there is better and worse" mean?
– Noon
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is now a decent response for that specific situation. I see no issue with your interpretation, that would make 2 of us then which should urge the op to clarify
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
I guess that making the other person in a defensive state is almost inevitable because people using that argument tend to avoid the discussion.
– Maverick
44 mins ago
This sounds great in theory. I wonder if it actually works. My best guess is that it gives you say 80% of the desired result 80% of the time, not working at all in some situations. I'm going to be honest, if my wife gave me that response over an argument, it would just make me laugh because it's so out of place. That's just me, but an example where it would fail on its own. Could you include a statement to how well such a standard answer works for you in various situations?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
This sounds great in theory. I wonder if it actually works. My best guess is that it gives you say 80% of the desired result 80% of the time, not working at all in some situations. I'm going to be honest, if my wife gave me that response over an argument, it would just make me laugh because it's so out of place. That's just me, but an example where it would fail on its own. Could you include a statement to how well such a standard answer works for you in various situations?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
@Raditz_35 I edited my response but, it made me think, did I misunderstood what "there is better and worse" mean?
– Noon
1 hour ago
@Raditz_35 I edited my response but, it made me think, did I misunderstood what "there is better and worse" mean?
– Noon
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is now a decent response for that specific situation. I see no issue with your interpretation, that would make 2 of us then which should urge the op to clarify
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Thanks. This is now a decent response for that specific situation. I see no issue with your interpretation, that would make 2 of us then which should urge the op to clarify
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
I guess that making the other person in a defensive state is almost inevitable because people using that argument tend to avoid the discussion.
– Maverick
44 mins ago
I guess that making the other person in a defensive state is almost inevitable because people using that argument tend to avoid the discussion.
– Maverick
44 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In a business environment, you would say “Tell that to our customers. And then tell it to our competitors.â€Â
Elsewhere you might say “You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not. “ If they use this argument a lot to derail things you can say “We can do here without this defeatist attitude.†That’s not too polite, but if you think someone is intentionally trying to stop improvements then this may be the right thing to say.
answered 2 hours ago
gnasher729
5,27531716
"You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not." That's a clear way to say "I do have something to say and it has to be heard". I like it.
– Maverick
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
In a business environment, you would say “Tell that to our customers. And then tell it to our competitors.â€Â
Elsewhere you might say “You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not. “ If they use this argument a lot to derail things you can say “We can do here without this defeatist attitude.†That’s not too polite, but if you think someone is intentionally trying to stop improvements then this may be the right thing to say.
answered 2 hours ago
gnasher729
5,27531716
"You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not." That's a clear way to say "I do have something to say and it has to be heard". I like it.
– Maverick
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
In a business environment, you would say “Tell that to our customers. And then tell it to our competitors.â€Â
Elsewhere you might say “You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not. “ If they use this argument a lot to derail things you can say “We can do here without this defeatist attitude.†That’s not too polite, but if you think someone is intentionally trying to stop improvements then this may be the right thing to say.
answered 2 hours ago
gnasher729
5,27531716
In a business environment, you would say “Tell that to our customers. And then tell it to our competitors.â€Â
Elsewhere you might say “You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not. “ If they use this argument a lot to derail things you can say “We can do here without this defeatist attitude.†That’s not too polite, but if you think someone is intentionally trying to stop improvements then this may be the right thing to say.
answered 2 hours ago
gnasher729
5,27531716
answered 2 hours ago
gnasher729
5,27531716
answered 2 hours ago
gnasher729
5,27531716
answered 2 hours ago
gnasher729
5,27531716
5,27531716
"You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not." That's a clear way to say "I do have something to say and it has to be heard". I like it.
– Maverick
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
"You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not." That's a clear way to say "I do have something to say and it has to be heard". I like it.
– Maverick
23 mins ago
"You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not." That's a clear way to say "I do have something to say and it has to be heard". I like it.
– Maverick
23 mins ago
"You May be happy with what we have, but I’m not." That's a clear way to say "I do have something to say and it has to be heard". I like it.
– Maverick
23 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Your question can be re-framed as being overcoming resistance to change.
In my experience reasons include:
- The potential to be worse off as a result of the change
- Fear of the unknown
- Effort exceeding reward
- Ego - it is someone elses idea
When speaking about change, you should therefore frame the conversation around the benefits the change will bring, and describe the way in which the change will occur.
Even ego can be overcome by seeding the idea in a conversation and then later referring to the conversation in terms of 'you know that idea we came up with last week'.
In the example you gave you asked the wrong question - you told rather than sold.
An online search for 'overcoming resistance for change' will give you a wealth of information, although most of it is aimed at corporate change.
answered 56 mins ago
DodgyG33za
1112
New contributor
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Your question can be re-framed as being overcoming resistance to change.
In my experience reasons include:
- The potential to be worse off as a result of the change
- Fear of the unknown
- Effort exceeding reward
- Ego - it is someone elses idea
When speaking about change, you should therefore frame the conversation around the benefits the change will bring, and describe the way in which the change will occur.
Even ego can be overcome by seeding the idea in a conversation and then later referring to the conversation in terms of 'you know that idea we came up with last week'.
In the example you gave you asked the wrong question - you told rather than sold.
An online search for 'overcoming resistance for change' will give you a wealth of information, although most of it is aimed at corporate change.
answered 56 mins ago
DodgyG33za
1112
New contributor
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Your question can be re-framed as being overcoming resistance to change.
In my experience reasons include:
- The potential to be worse off as a result of the change
- Fear of the unknown
- Effort exceeding reward
- Ego - it is someone elses idea
When speaking about change, you should therefore frame the conversation around the benefits the change will bring, and describe the way in which the change will occur.
Even ego can be overcome by seeding the idea in a conversation and then later referring to the conversation in terms of 'you know that idea we came up with last week'.
In the example you gave you asked the wrong question - you told rather than sold.
An online search for 'overcoming resistance for change' will give you a wealth of information, although most of it is aimed at corporate change.
answered 56 mins ago
DodgyG33za
1112
New contributor
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Your question can be re-framed as being overcoming resistance to change.
In my experience reasons include:
- The potential to be worse off as a result of the change
- Fear of the unknown
- Effort exceeding reward
- Ego - it is someone elses idea
When speaking about change, you should therefore frame the conversation around the benefits the change will bring, and describe the way in which the change will occur.
Even ego can be overcome by seeding the idea in a conversation and then later referring to the conversation in terms of 'you know that idea we came up with last week'.
In the example you gave you asked the wrong question - you told rather than sold.
An online search for 'overcoming resistance for change' will give you a wealth of information, although most of it is aimed at corporate change.
answered 56 mins ago
DodgyG33za
1112
New contributor
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 56 mins ago
DodgyG33za
1112
New contributor
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 56 mins ago
DodgyG33za
1112
answered 56 mins ago
DodgyG33za
1112
1112
New contributor
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
DodgyG33za is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
There is a time for a lengthy, well thought out argument, and equally there are times when it can be unhelpful to use that approach. In controlled debates where two speakers are given an amount of time to speak freely without questions, a person may have the time to carefully dismantle an opponent's position and show it to be incorrect or unhelpful, and then make their own point in whatever manner they feel is best. However, in less controlled situations such as open meetings where anybody is free to interject and speak over you if they wish, taking too long to make your point can be disastrous. You may begin to make a very good point but get interrupted and criticised over an incomplete statement.
You're asking how to fight a clichéd argument, so naturally you probably don't want to resort to clichés yourself. Hopefully my suggestions below are not too clichéd, but my point is that a brief counter statement before you make any detailed argument is the best approach if you think that you may be interrupted.
I'm going to assume the example of a business context, where you have made an argument for improvement and somebody else is arguing to keep the business model as it is. The arguments could easily be adapted to other contexts.
Perhaps you could counter such a statement with:
True, there are worse models than ours; but that should not be a reason for not wanting to improve and become one of the best. If we are neither the worst nor the best then we are mediocre.
Or
Many of our competitors have programs of continuous improvement. If we do nothing, we will be left behind. If we are not moving forwards with everybody else, it is the same as going backwards.
Neither of these approaches directly attack the idea that "there are better and there are worse" or show that to be a fallacy, but rather they show that other external factors mean that refusing to change or improve is not viable.
answered 1 hour ago
Astralbee
19.6k34682
1
Clever answer. I like the idea to avoid using a clichéd counter against a clichéd answer. I think that's actually the best way to say that you have a viable argument without being rude to the other person.
– Maverick
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
There is a time for a lengthy, well thought out argument, and equally there are times when it can be unhelpful to use that approach. In controlled debates where two speakers are given an amount of time to speak freely without questions, a person may have the time to carefully dismantle an opponent's position and show it to be incorrect or unhelpful, and then make their own point in whatever manner they feel is best. However, in less controlled situations such as open meetings where anybody is free to interject and speak over you if they wish, taking too long to make your point can be disastrous. You may begin to make a very good point but get interrupted and criticised over an incomplete statement.
You're asking how to fight a clichéd argument, so naturally you probably don't want to resort to clichés yourself. Hopefully my suggestions below are not too clichéd, but my point is that a brief counter statement before you make any detailed argument is the best approach if you think that you may be interrupted.
I'm going to assume the example of a business context, where you have made an argument for improvement and somebody else is arguing to keep the business model as it is. The arguments could easily be adapted to other contexts.
Perhaps you could counter such a statement with:
True, there are worse models than ours; but that should not be a reason for not wanting to improve and become one of the best. If we are neither the worst nor the best then we are mediocre.
Or
Many of our competitors have programs of continuous improvement. If we do nothing, we will be left behind. If we are not moving forwards with everybody else, it is the same as going backwards.
Neither of these approaches directly attack the idea that "there are better and there are worse" or show that to be a fallacy, but rather they show that other external factors mean that refusing to change or improve is not viable.
answered 1 hour ago
Astralbee
19.6k34682
1
Clever answer. I like the idea to avoid using a clichéd counter against a clichéd answer. I think that's actually the best way to say that you have a viable argument without being rude to the other person.
– Maverick
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
There is a time for a lengthy, well thought out argument, and equally there are times when it can be unhelpful to use that approach. In controlled debates where two speakers are given an amount of time to speak freely without questions, a person may have the time to carefully dismantle an opponent's position and show it to be incorrect or unhelpful, and then make their own point in whatever manner they feel is best. However, in less controlled situations such as open meetings where anybody is free to interject and speak over you if they wish, taking too long to make your point can be disastrous. You may begin to make a very good point but get interrupted and criticised over an incomplete statement.
You're asking how to fight a clichéd argument, so naturally you probably don't want to resort to clichés yourself. Hopefully my suggestions below are not too clichéd, but my point is that a brief counter statement before you make any detailed argument is the best approach if you think that you may be interrupted.
I'm going to assume the example of a business context, where you have made an argument for improvement and somebody else is arguing to keep the business model as it is. The arguments could easily be adapted to other contexts.
Perhaps you could counter such a statement with:
True, there are worse models than ours; but that should not be a reason for not wanting to improve and become one of the best. If we are neither the worst nor the best then we are mediocre.
Or
Many of our competitors have programs of continuous improvement. If we do nothing, we will be left behind. If we are not moving forwards with everybody else, it is the same as going backwards.
Neither of these approaches directly attack the idea that "there are better and there are worse" or show that to be a fallacy, but rather they show that other external factors mean that refusing to change or improve is not viable.
answered 1 hour ago
Astralbee
19.6k34682
There is a time for a lengthy, well thought out argument, and equally there are times when it can be unhelpful to use that approach. In controlled debates where two speakers are given an amount of time to speak freely without questions, a person may have the time to carefully dismantle an opponent's position and show it to be incorrect or unhelpful, and then make their own point in whatever manner they feel is best. However, in less controlled situations such as open meetings where anybody is free to interject and speak over you if they wish, taking too long to make your point can be disastrous. You may begin to make a very good point but get interrupted and criticised over an incomplete statement.
You're asking how to fight a clichéd argument, so naturally you probably don't want to resort to clichés yourself. Hopefully my suggestions below are not too clichéd, but my point is that a brief counter statement before you make any detailed argument is the best approach if you think that you may be interrupted.
I'm going to assume the example of a business context, where you have made an argument for improvement and somebody else is arguing to keep the business model as it is. The arguments could easily be adapted to other contexts.
Perhaps you could counter such a statement with:
True, there are worse models than ours; but that should not be a reason for not wanting to improve and become one of the best. If we are neither the worst nor the best then we are mediocre.
Or
Many of our competitors have programs of continuous improvement. If we do nothing, we will be left behind. If we are not moving forwards with everybody else, it is the same as going backwards.
Neither of these approaches directly attack the idea that "there are better and there are worse" or show that to be a fallacy, but rather they show that other external factors mean that refusing to change or improve is not viable.
answered 1 hour ago
Astralbee
19.6k34682
edited 17 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Astralbee
19.6k34682
answered 1 hour ago
Astralbee
19.6k34682
answered 1 hour ago
Astralbee
19.6k34682
19.6k34682
1
Clever answer. I like the idea to avoid using a clichéd counter against a clichéd answer. I think that's actually the best way to say that you have a viable argument without being rude to the other person.
– Maverick
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
1
Clever answer. I like the idea to avoid using a clichéd counter against a clichéd answer. I think that's actually the best way to say that you have a viable argument without being rude to the other person.
– Maverick
19 mins ago
1
1
Clever answer. I like the idea to avoid using a clichéd counter against a clichéd answer. I think that's actually the best way to say that you have a viable argument without being rude to the other person.
– Maverick
19 mins ago
Clever answer. I like the idea to avoid using a clichéd counter against a clichéd answer. I think that's actually the best way to say that you have a viable argument without being rude to the other person.
– Maverick
19 mins ago
add a comment |Â
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2finterpersonal.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f18881%2fhow-can-i-counter-the-argument-there-is-better-and-there-is-worse%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Please state the context. Are we talking about professional decisions, over the internet with a stranger or what to eat at dinner with your spouse? There is no default response that wins you an argument. Ideally you should be really specific and state where you have encountered people saying that and what your goal was, e.g. urging them to reconsider a decision at work or selling them something else. You kind of specify your goal but it's super abstract and at least to me it could mean anything
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
Actually, there is so many context where I've heard that argument, I can't decide which one is the best. Btw, some people seems to give me good answer even without context.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
Btw I want to point out the irony of you basically saying: the answers could be better or worse, let's just accept them as they are. (I know some mod will be angry with me, but I'd argue pointing out such inconsistencies should help improving the question). So please be more specific
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago
People use that argument everywhere and I want to counter it because it is a general argument that in fact has a weight for no reason, that's clearly what I'm saying in my post and I think that you're missing that point.
– Maverick
1 hour ago
I already gave you counter arguments to that. Someone is just going to move this to chat again. There is no standard strategy you can apply to every situation. Someone more capable than you will tear right through it if you try. If you say you encounter this in every possible situation and you can only remember one strategy, fine. In that case, it might help if you could tell more about how you go about it. Do you have trouble in general arguing? How do you usually respond? What is the reaction?
– Raditz_35
1 hour ago