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Should an assignment with software engineer contractor include a clause that the engineer is not liable of any losses? [closed]
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I've got a job offer from the company in Ireland to work as an independent software engineer contractor (not an employee). The Agreement contains clauses that I indemnify the company from lots of things, like this:
You will indemnify %Company%, its officers, directors, and employees against all claims, actions, liabilities, losses, damages and expenses (including legal expenses) suffered or incurred by %Company% as a result of or arising out of any third party allegation that the Services or any Deliverables infringe or misappropriate any third party Intellectual Property Rights.
But it doesn't contain anything in reply. I expected it to contain something like this:
In no event will You be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, in any way for any loss or damage of any kind incurred by %Company% as a result of, or in connection with, the Services provided by You to %Company%.
But it does not, and the company refused to add such a clause.
Well, at least it doesn't contain the opposite, so I'm still thinking of signing the Assignment. Is it a good idea? Do contracts generally contain clauses like the one I want?
software-industry contracts
asked Oct 15 '15 at 15:56
Dmitry Frank
645259
closed as off-topic by Lilienthal♦, Wesley Long, mcknz, scaaahu, gnat Oct 16 '15 at 17:41
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – Lilienthal, Wesley Long, mcknz, scaaahu, gnat
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I've got a job offer from the company in Ireland to work as an independent software engineer contractor (not an employee). The Agreement contains clauses that I indemnify the company from lots of things, like this:
You will indemnify %Company%, its officers, directors, and employees against all claims, actions, liabilities, losses, damages and expenses (including legal expenses) suffered or incurred by %Company% as a result of or arising out of any third party allegation that the Services or any Deliverables infringe or misappropriate any third party Intellectual Property Rights.
But it doesn't contain anything in reply. I expected it to contain something like this:
In no event will You be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, in any way for any loss or damage of any kind incurred by %Company% as a result of, or in connection with, the Services provided by You to %Company%.
But it does not, and the company refused to add such a clause.
Well, at least it doesn't contain the opposite, so I'm still thinking of signing the Assignment. Is it a good idea? Do contracts generally contain clauses like the one I want?
software-industry contracts
asked Oct 15 '15 at 15:56
Dmitry Frank
645259
closed as off-topic by Lilienthal♦, Wesley Long, mcknz, scaaahu, gnat Oct 16 '15 at 17:41
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – Lilienthal, Wesley Long, mcknz, scaaahu, gnat
1
Typically you get some insurance for this. The cost of which you indirectly pass on to the company, of course.
– Nathan Cooper
Oct 15 '15 at 16:16
1
Legally, they can probably not guarantee that. Some laws, such as anti-trust laws, can require that the specific individual that broke the law gets civil or criminal penalties and the laws may prevent the company from assuming the liability or paying for the damages on behalf of the individual that broke the law.
– Eric
Oct 15 '15 at 18:26
VTC - Clearly asking for legal advice. FWIW: This is exactly why you should incorporate your business when you are a contractor. Talk to a lawyer, specifically one who works with small firms and independents about incorporating.
– Wesley Long
Oct 16 '15 at 1:33
This is legal advice you are asking for- if you are actually a licensed Engineer you should contact your local professional association for advice (they may have sample contracts suitable for your jurisdiction) and for insurance. If not, talk to colleagues in a similar situation. I have seen some terrible contract clauses I would never in a million years sign- the problem is that the lawyers will snicker that they got the contractor to sign their life away (even if the chances of ever collecting are negligible), but the company will only get the sub-standard or desperate contractors.
– Spehro Pefhany
Oct 16 '15 at 3:39
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I've got a job offer from the company in Ireland to work as an independent software engineer contractor (not an employee). The Agreement contains clauses that I indemnify the company from lots of things, like this:
You will indemnify %Company%, its officers, directors, and employees against all claims, actions, liabilities, losses, damages and expenses (including legal expenses) suffered or incurred by %Company% as a result of or arising out of any third party allegation that the Services or any Deliverables infringe or misappropriate any third party Intellectual Property Rights.
But it doesn't contain anything in reply. I expected it to contain something like this:
In no event will You be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, in any way for any loss or damage of any kind incurred by %Company% as a result of, or in connection with, the Services provided by You to %Company%.
But it does not, and the company refused to add such a clause.
Well, at least it doesn't contain the opposite, so I'm still thinking of signing the Assignment. Is it a good idea? Do contracts generally contain clauses like the one I want?
software-industry contracts
asked Oct 15 '15 at 15:56
Dmitry Frank
645259
I've got a job offer from the company in Ireland to work as an independent software engineer contractor (not an employee). The Agreement contains clauses that I indemnify the company from lots of things, like this:
You will indemnify %Company%, its officers, directors, and employees against all claims, actions, liabilities, losses, damages and expenses (including legal expenses) suffered or incurred by %Company% as a result of or arising out of any third party allegation that the Services or any Deliverables infringe or misappropriate any third party Intellectual Property Rights.
But it doesn't contain anything in reply. I expected it to contain something like this:
In no event will You be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, in any way for any loss or damage of any kind incurred by %Company% as a result of, or in connection with, the Services provided by You to %Company%.
But it does not, and the company refused to add such a clause.
Well, at least it doesn't contain the opposite, so I'm still thinking of signing the Assignment. Is it a good idea? Do contracts generally contain clauses like the one I want?
software-industry contracts
asked Oct 15 '15 at 15:56
Dmitry Frank
645259
edited Oct 15 '15 at 21:40
asked Oct 15 '15 at 15:56
Dmitry Frank
645259
asked Oct 15 '15 at 15:56
Dmitry Frank
645259
asked Oct 15 '15 at 15:56
Dmitry Frank
645259
645259
closed as off-topic by Lilienthal♦, Wesley Long, mcknz, scaaahu, gnat Oct 16 '15 at 17:41
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – Lilienthal, Wesley Long, mcknz, scaaahu, gnat
closed as off-topic by Lilienthal♦, Wesley Long, mcknz, scaaahu, gnat Oct 16 '15 at 17:41
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – Lilienthal, Wesley Long, mcknz, scaaahu, gnat
1
Typically you get some insurance for this. The cost of which you indirectly pass on to the company, of course.
– Nathan Cooper
Oct 15 '15 at 16:16
1
Legally, they can probably not guarantee that. Some laws, such as anti-trust laws, can require that the specific individual that broke the law gets civil or criminal penalties and the laws may prevent the company from assuming the liability or paying for the damages on behalf of the individual that broke the law.
– Eric
Oct 15 '15 at 18:26
VTC - Clearly asking for legal advice. FWIW: This is exactly why you should incorporate your business when you are a contractor. Talk to a lawyer, specifically one who works with small firms and independents about incorporating.
– Wesley Long
Oct 16 '15 at 1:33
This is legal advice you are asking for- if you are actually a licensed Engineer you should contact your local professional association for advice (they may have sample contracts suitable for your jurisdiction) and for insurance. If not, talk to colleagues in a similar situation. I have seen some terrible contract clauses I would never in a million years sign- the problem is that the lawyers will snicker that they got the contractor to sign their life away (even if the chances of ever collecting are negligible), but the company will only get the sub-standard or desperate contractors.
– Spehro Pefhany
Oct 16 '15 at 3:39
suggest improvements |Â
1
Typically you get some insurance for this. The cost of which you indirectly pass on to the company, of course.
– Nathan Cooper
Oct 15 '15 at 16:16
1
Legally, they can probably not guarantee that. Some laws, such as anti-trust laws, can require that the specific individual that broke the law gets civil or criminal penalties and the laws may prevent the company from assuming the liability or paying for the damages on behalf of the individual that broke the law.
– Eric
Oct 15 '15 at 18:26
VTC - Clearly asking for legal advice. FWIW: This is exactly why you should incorporate your business when you are a contractor. Talk to a lawyer, specifically one who works with small firms and independents about incorporating.
– Wesley Long
Oct 16 '15 at 1:33
This is legal advice you are asking for- if you are actually a licensed Engineer you should contact your local professional association for advice (they may have sample contracts suitable for your jurisdiction) and for insurance. If not, talk to colleagues in a similar situation. I have seen some terrible contract clauses I would never in a million years sign- the problem is that the lawyers will snicker that they got the contractor to sign their life away (even if the chances of ever collecting are negligible), but the company will only get the sub-standard or desperate contractors.
– Spehro Pefhany
Oct 16 '15 at 3:39
1
1
Typically you get some insurance for this. The cost of which you indirectly pass on to the company, of course.
– Nathan Cooper
Oct 15 '15 at 16:16
Typically you get some insurance for this. The cost of which you indirectly pass on to the company, of course.
– Nathan Cooper
Oct 15 '15 at 16:16
1
1
Legally, they can probably not guarantee that. Some laws, such as anti-trust laws, can require that the specific individual that broke the law gets civil or criminal penalties and the laws may prevent the company from assuming the liability or paying for the damages on behalf of the individual that broke the law.
– Eric
Oct 15 '15 at 18:26
Legally, they can probably not guarantee that. Some laws, such as anti-trust laws, can require that the specific individual that broke the law gets civil or criminal penalties and the laws may prevent the company from assuming the liability or paying for the damages on behalf of the individual that broke the law.
– Eric
Oct 15 '15 at 18:26
VTC - Clearly asking for legal advice. FWIW: This is exactly why you should incorporate your business when you are a contractor. Talk to a lawyer, specifically one who works with small firms and independents about incorporating.
– Wesley Long
Oct 16 '15 at 1:33
VTC - Clearly asking for legal advice. FWIW: This is exactly why you should incorporate your business when you are a contractor. Talk to a lawyer, specifically one who works with small firms and independents about incorporating.
– Wesley Long
Oct 16 '15 at 1:33
This is legal advice you are asking for- if you are actually a licensed Engineer you should contact your local professional association for advice (they may have sample contracts suitable for your jurisdiction) and for insurance. If not, talk to colleagues in a similar situation. I have seen some terrible contract clauses I would never in a million years sign- the problem is that the lawyers will snicker that they got the contractor to sign their life away (even if the chances of ever collecting are negligible), but the company will only get the sub-standard or desperate contractors.
– Spehro Pefhany
Oct 16 '15 at 3:39
This is legal advice you are asking for- if you are actually a licensed Engineer you should contact your local professional association for advice (they may have sample contracts suitable for your jurisdiction) and for insurance. If not, talk to colleagues in a similar situation. I have seen some terrible contract clauses I would never in a million years sign- the problem is that the lawyers will snicker that they got the contractor to sign their life away (even if the chances of ever collecting are negligible), but the company will only get the sub-standard or desperate contractors.
– Spehro Pefhany
Oct 16 '15 at 3:39
suggest improvements |Â
2 Answers
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Basically that line that they have included is intended to protect them from your actions should you choose to pirate, or otherwise improperly use or reuse code that is protected by copyright or licencing restrictions that would prohibit its use in they way you have implemented it. And in the event that someone claims that you did you will have a vested interest in defending against any claims of Intellectual Property rights violations.
However I am not sure that I would sign any contract with that clause as written. The reason is that as written that clause sounds like they could choose to settle a spurious claim of Copyright Violation, and then you would be on the hook for the settlement amount even though you had no part in the decision to settle.
If this contract is lucrative enough that you want to pursue the opportunity anyway then I would engage a commercial insurance agent to provide you with a Professional Liability Insurance policy. Contact a Business Insurance Agent and explain to them what you need and they should be able to help you. The insurer may require a change in your contract to help limit your liability and by extension their liability. The cost of my policy is comparable to the cost of having an attorney review and suggest revisions of a contract. When I get a new contract I send it to my agent, who sends it on to their Legal team who either approves or requires changes. Because it is an insurer demanding the chance I have never had a company refuse any of the changes they requested.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 17:34
IDrinkandIKnowThings
43.8k1397187
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Definition of indemnify
Are you sure you want to compensate your contract if their customer sues them for a million dollars/euros/whatever?
Line through paragraphs like that, let them know that you've done so, sign it and just smile and shake your head saying, "do you really expect me at this level to pay your legal fees?" They'll respect you for doing so.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 21:30
Michael Blankenship
1246
suggest improvements |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
Basically that line that they have included is intended to protect them from your actions should you choose to pirate, or otherwise improperly use or reuse code that is protected by copyright or licencing restrictions that would prohibit its use in they way you have implemented it. And in the event that someone claims that you did you will have a vested interest in defending against any claims of Intellectual Property rights violations.
However I am not sure that I would sign any contract with that clause as written. The reason is that as written that clause sounds like they could choose to settle a spurious claim of Copyright Violation, and then you would be on the hook for the settlement amount even though you had no part in the decision to settle.
If this contract is lucrative enough that you want to pursue the opportunity anyway then I would engage a commercial insurance agent to provide you with a Professional Liability Insurance policy. Contact a Business Insurance Agent and explain to them what you need and they should be able to help you. The insurer may require a change in your contract to help limit your liability and by extension their liability. The cost of my policy is comparable to the cost of having an attorney review and suggest revisions of a contract. When I get a new contract I send it to my agent, who sends it on to their Legal team who either approves or requires changes. Because it is an insurer demanding the chance I have never had a company refuse any of the changes they requested.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 17:34
IDrinkandIKnowThings
43.8k1397187
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Basically that line that they have included is intended to protect them from your actions should you choose to pirate, or otherwise improperly use or reuse code that is protected by copyright or licencing restrictions that would prohibit its use in they way you have implemented it. And in the event that someone claims that you did you will have a vested interest in defending against any claims of Intellectual Property rights violations.
However I am not sure that I would sign any contract with that clause as written. The reason is that as written that clause sounds like they could choose to settle a spurious claim of Copyright Violation, and then you would be on the hook for the settlement amount even though you had no part in the decision to settle.
If this contract is lucrative enough that you want to pursue the opportunity anyway then I would engage a commercial insurance agent to provide you with a Professional Liability Insurance policy. Contact a Business Insurance Agent and explain to them what you need and they should be able to help you. The insurer may require a change in your contract to help limit your liability and by extension their liability. The cost of my policy is comparable to the cost of having an attorney review and suggest revisions of a contract. When I get a new contract I send it to my agent, who sends it on to their Legal team who either approves or requires changes. Because it is an insurer demanding the chance I have never had a company refuse any of the changes they requested.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 17:34
IDrinkandIKnowThings
43.8k1397187
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Basically that line that they have included is intended to protect them from your actions should you choose to pirate, or otherwise improperly use or reuse code that is protected by copyright or licencing restrictions that would prohibit its use in they way you have implemented it. And in the event that someone claims that you did you will have a vested interest in defending against any claims of Intellectual Property rights violations.
However I am not sure that I would sign any contract with that clause as written. The reason is that as written that clause sounds like they could choose to settle a spurious claim of Copyright Violation, and then you would be on the hook for the settlement amount even though you had no part in the decision to settle.
If this contract is lucrative enough that you want to pursue the opportunity anyway then I would engage a commercial insurance agent to provide you with a Professional Liability Insurance policy. Contact a Business Insurance Agent and explain to them what you need and they should be able to help you. The insurer may require a change in your contract to help limit your liability and by extension their liability. The cost of my policy is comparable to the cost of having an attorney review and suggest revisions of a contract. When I get a new contract I send it to my agent, who sends it on to their Legal team who either approves or requires changes. Because it is an insurer demanding the chance I have never had a company refuse any of the changes they requested.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 17:34
IDrinkandIKnowThings
43.8k1397187
Basically that line that they have included is intended to protect them from your actions should you choose to pirate, or otherwise improperly use or reuse code that is protected by copyright or licencing restrictions that would prohibit its use in they way you have implemented it. And in the event that someone claims that you did you will have a vested interest in defending against any claims of Intellectual Property rights violations.
However I am not sure that I would sign any contract with that clause as written. The reason is that as written that clause sounds like they could choose to settle a spurious claim of Copyright Violation, and then you would be on the hook for the settlement amount even though you had no part in the decision to settle.
If this contract is lucrative enough that you want to pursue the opportunity anyway then I would engage a commercial insurance agent to provide you with a Professional Liability Insurance policy. Contact a Business Insurance Agent and explain to them what you need and they should be able to help you. The insurer may require a change in your contract to help limit your liability and by extension their liability. The cost of my policy is comparable to the cost of having an attorney review and suggest revisions of a contract. When I get a new contract I send it to my agent, who sends it on to their Legal team who either approves or requires changes. Because it is an insurer demanding the chance I have never had a company refuse any of the changes they requested.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 17:34
IDrinkandIKnowThings
43.8k1397187
edited Oct 15 '15 at 18:24
answered Oct 15 '15 at 17:34
IDrinkandIKnowThings
43.8k1397187
answered Oct 15 '15 at 17:34
IDrinkandIKnowThings
43.8k1397187
answered Oct 15 '15 at 17:34
IDrinkandIKnowThings
43.8k1397187
43.8k1397187
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Definition of indemnify
Are you sure you want to compensate your contract if their customer sues them for a million dollars/euros/whatever?
Line through paragraphs like that, let them know that you've done so, sign it and just smile and shake your head saying, "do you really expect me at this level to pay your legal fees?" They'll respect you for doing so.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 21:30
Michael Blankenship
1246
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
Definition of indemnify
Are you sure you want to compensate your contract if their customer sues them for a million dollars/euros/whatever?
Line through paragraphs like that, let them know that you've done so, sign it and just smile and shake your head saying, "do you really expect me at this level to pay your legal fees?" They'll respect you for doing so.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 21:30
Michael Blankenship
1246
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Definition of indemnify
Are you sure you want to compensate your contract if their customer sues them for a million dollars/euros/whatever?
Line through paragraphs like that, let them know that you've done so, sign it and just smile and shake your head saying, "do you really expect me at this level to pay your legal fees?" They'll respect you for doing so.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 21:30
Michael Blankenship
1246
Definition of indemnify
Are you sure you want to compensate your contract if their customer sues them for a million dollars/euros/whatever?
Line through paragraphs like that, let them know that you've done so, sign it and just smile and shake your head saying, "do you really expect me at this level to pay your legal fees?" They'll respect you for doing so.
answered Oct 15 '15 at 21:30
Michael Blankenship
1246
answered Oct 15 '15 at 21:30
Michael Blankenship
1246
answered Oct 15 '15 at 21:30
Michael Blankenship
1246
answered Oct 15 '15 at 21:30
Michael Blankenship
1246
1246
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
1
Typically you get some insurance for this. The cost of which you indirectly pass on to the company, of course.
– Nathan Cooper
Oct 15 '15 at 16:16
1
Legally, they can probably not guarantee that. Some laws, such as anti-trust laws, can require that the specific individual that broke the law gets civil or criminal penalties and the laws may prevent the company from assuming the liability or paying for the damages on behalf of the individual that broke the law.
– Eric
Oct 15 '15 at 18:26
VTC - Clearly asking for legal advice. FWIW: This is exactly why you should incorporate your business when you are a contractor. Talk to a lawyer, specifically one who works with small firms and independents about incorporating.
– Wesley Long
Oct 16 '15 at 1:33
This is legal advice you are asking for- if you are actually a licensed Engineer you should contact your local professional association for advice (they may have sample contracts suitable for your jurisdiction) and for insurance. If not, talk to colleagues in a similar situation. I have seen some terrible contract clauses I would never in a million years sign- the problem is that the lawyers will snicker that they got the contractor to sign their life away (even if the chances of ever collecting are negligible), but the company will only get the sub-standard or desperate contractors.
– Spehro Pefhany
Oct 16 '15 at 3:39