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Is “I believe to†in this sentence correct?
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I know the sentences:
He is believed to be dead.
I believe (that) she is the right person.
He is the man believed to deserve that title.
But when I want to say “the man I believeâ€Â, I don’t know whether it’s right or not:
He is the man I believe to deserve that title.
Is the above sentence correct?
grammaticality
asked 4 hours ago
user67265
3067
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
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I know the sentences:
He is believed to be dead.
I believe (that) she is the right person.
He is the man believed to deserve that title.
But when I want to say “the man I believeâ€Â, I don’t know whether it’s right or not:
He is the man I believe to deserve that title.
Is the above sentence correct?
grammaticality
asked 4 hours ago
user67265
3067
Your final example He is the man I believe to deserve that title is syntactically valid (and may have been more common a century or two ago), but it sounds more than a bit stilted to me. More natural today would be He is the man [who / that] I believe deserves that title.
– FumbleFingers
4 hours ago
@FumbleFingers can it be this way?: he is the man I believe that deserves that title.
– user67265
3 hours ago
Shakespeare put the relativiser that after the (optional, parenthetical) I believe / think element in King Richard III - I am joyful to hear of their readiness, and am the man, I think, that shall set them in present action, so yeah - you can do such things. But some might think it's a little "awkward".
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I know the sentences:
He is believed to be dead.
I believe (that) she is the right person.
He is the man believed to deserve that title.
But when I want to say “the man I believeâ€Â, I don’t know whether it’s right or not:
He is the man I believe to deserve that title.
Is the above sentence correct?
grammaticality
asked 4 hours ago
user67265
3067
I know the sentences:
He is believed to be dead.
I believe (that) she is the right person.
He is the man believed to deserve that title.
But when I want to say “the man I believeâ€Â, I don’t know whether it’s right or not:
He is the man I believe to deserve that title.
Is the above sentence correct?
grammaticality
grammaticality
asked 4 hours ago
user67265
3067
asked 4 hours ago
user67265
3067
edited 3 hours ago
asked 4 hours ago
user67265
3067
asked 4 hours ago
user67265
3067
asked 4 hours ago
user67265
3067
3067
Your final example He is the man I believe to deserve that title is syntactically valid (and may have been more common a century or two ago), but it sounds more than a bit stilted to me. More natural today would be He is the man [who / that] I believe deserves that title.
– FumbleFingers
4 hours ago
@FumbleFingers can it be this way?: he is the man I believe that deserves that title.
– user67265
3 hours ago
Shakespeare put the relativiser that after the (optional, parenthetical) I believe / think element in King Richard III - I am joyful to hear of their readiness, and am the man, I think, that shall set them in present action, so yeah - you can do such things. But some might think it's a little "awkward".
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Your final example He is the man I believe to deserve that title is syntactically valid (and may have been more common a century or two ago), but it sounds more than a bit stilted to me. More natural today would be He is the man [who / that] I believe deserves that title.
– FumbleFingers
4 hours ago
@FumbleFingers can it be this way?: he is the man I believe that deserves that title.
– user67265
3 hours ago
Shakespeare put the relativiser that after the (optional, parenthetical) I believe / think element in King Richard III - I am joyful to hear of their readiness, and am the man, I think, that shall set them in present action, so yeah - you can do such things. But some might think it's a little "awkward".
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
Your final example He is the man I believe to deserve that title is syntactically valid (and may have been more common a century or two ago), but it sounds more than a bit stilted to me. More natural today would be He is the man [who / that] I believe deserves that title.
– FumbleFingers
4 hours ago
Your final example He is the man I believe to deserve that title is syntactically valid (and may have been more common a century or two ago), but it sounds more than a bit stilted to me. More natural today would be He is the man [who / that] I believe deserves that title.
– FumbleFingers
4 hours ago
@FumbleFingers can it be this way?: he is the man I believe that deserves that title.
– user67265
3 hours ago
@FumbleFingers can it be this way?: he is the man I believe that deserves that title.
– user67265
3 hours ago
Shakespeare put the relativiser that after the (optional, parenthetical) I believe / think element in King Richard III - I am joyful to hear of their readiness, and am the man, I think, that shall set them in present action, so yeah - you can do such things. But some might think it's a little "awkward".
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
Shakespeare put the relativiser that after the (optional, parenthetical) I believe / think element in King Richard III - I am joyful to hear of their readiness, and am the man, I think, that shall set them in present action, so yeah - you can do such things. But some might think it's a little "awkward".
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
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votes
up vote
3
down vote
He is the man I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man I believe deserves that title.
These are both entirely proper. They are restrictive relative clauses from which the relativizer whom has been omitted, which is permitted if the relativizer does not represent the subject of the relative clause.
He is the man (whom) I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man (whom) I believe deserves that title.
answered 4 hours ago
StoneyB
167k10227401
I thought I'd run up this NGram to show that who is increasingly replacing whom in such contexts. But (according to Google Books, at least) it isn't. Except if I replace the infinitive marker to with an "active" verb such as the man who[m] I believe is [whatever he is]. Dunno if that supports my perception that the infinitive form is "stilted / dated" or not.
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
I find it hard to swallow in your second sentence. Your first translates to: I believe him (whom) to deserve that title. It sounds grammatically okay to me. But your second translates to: I believe the man deserves that title. It seems like “the man†is the subject, not object.
– user67265
3 hours ago
@user67265 StoneyB is right. In neither example is the covert relative word the subject of the relative clause. The subject is "I". In the first (assuming that the title has already been awarded) it is the 'raised' object of "believe" and the semantic, i.e. understood subject of "deserve". And in the second it is simply the subject of the embedded "deserves" clause.
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
He is the man I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man I believe deserves that title.
These are both entirely proper. They are restrictive relative clauses from which the relativizer whom has been omitted, which is permitted if the relativizer does not represent the subject of the relative clause.
He is the man (whom) I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man (whom) I believe deserves that title.
answered 4 hours ago
StoneyB
167k10227401
I thought I'd run up this NGram to show that who is increasingly replacing whom in such contexts. But (according to Google Books, at least) it isn't. Except if I replace the infinitive marker to with an "active" verb such as the man who[m] I believe is [whatever he is]. Dunno if that supports my perception that the infinitive form is "stilted / dated" or not.
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
I find it hard to swallow in your second sentence. Your first translates to: I believe him (whom) to deserve that title. It sounds grammatically okay to me. But your second translates to: I believe the man deserves that title. It seems like “the man†is the subject, not object.
– user67265
3 hours ago
@user67265 StoneyB is right. In neither example is the covert relative word the subject of the relative clause. The subject is "I". In the first (assuming that the title has already been awarded) it is the 'raised' object of "believe" and the semantic, i.e. understood subject of "deserve". And in the second it is simply the subject of the embedded "deserves" clause.
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
He is the man I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man I believe deserves that title.
These are both entirely proper. They are restrictive relative clauses from which the relativizer whom has been omitted, which is permitted if the relativizer does not represent the subject of the relative clause.
He is the man (whom) I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man (whom) I believe deserves that title.
answered 4 hours ago
StoneyB
167k10227401
I thought I'd run up this NGram to show that who is increasingly replacing whom in such contexts. But (according to Google Books, at least) it isn't. Except if I replace the infinitive marker to with an "active" verb such as the man who[m] I believe is [whatever he is]. Dunno if that supports my perception that the infinitive form is "stilted / dated" or not.
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
I find it hard to swallow in your second sentence. Your first translates to: I believe him (whom) to deserve that title. It sounds grammatically okay to me. But your second translates to: I believe the man deserves that title. It seems like “the man†is the subject, not object.
– user67265
3 hours ago
@user67265 StoneyB is right. In neither example is the covert relative word the subject of the relative clause. The subject is "I". In the first (assuming that the title has already been awarded) it is the 'raised' object of "believe" and the semantic, i.e. understood subject of "deserve". And in the second it is simply the subject of the embedded "deserves" clause.
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
He is the man I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man I believe deserves that title.
These are both entirely proper. They are restrictive relative clauses from which the relativizer whom has been omitted, which is permitted if the relativizer does not represent the subject of the relative clause.
He is the man (whom) I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man (whom) I believe deserves that title.
answered 4 hours ago
StoneyB
167k10227401
He is the man I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man I believe deserves that title.
These are both entirely proper. They are restrictive relative clauses from which the relativizer whom has been omitted, which is permitted if the relativizer does not represent the subject of the relative clause.
He is the man (whom) I believe to deserve that title or
He is he man (whom) I believe deserves that title.
answered 4 hours ago
StoneyB
167k10227401
answered 4 hours ago
StoneyB
167k10227401
answered 4 hours ago
StoneyB
167k10227401
answered 4 hours ago
StoneyB
167k10227401
167k10227401
I thought I'd run up this NGram to show that who is increasingly replacing whom in such contexts. But (according to Google Books, at least) it isn't. Except if I replace the infinitive marker to with an "active" verb such as the man who[m] I believe is [whatever he is]. Dunno if that supports my perception that the infinitive form is "stilted / dated" or not.
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
I find it hard to swallow in your second sentence. Your first translates to: I believe him (whom) to deserve that title. It sounds grammatically okay to me. But your second translates to: I believe the man deserves that title. It seems like “the man†is the subject, not object.
– user67265
3 hours ago
@user67265 StoneyB is right. In neither example is the covert relative word the subject of the relative clause. The subject is "I". In the first (assuming that the title has already been awarded) it is the 'raised' object of "believe" and the semantic, i.e. understood subject of "deserve". And in the second it is simply the subject of the embedded "deserves" clause.
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
I thought I'd run up this NGram to show that who is increasingly replacing whom in such contexts. But (according to Google Books, at least) it isn't. Except if I replace the infinitive marker to with an "active" verb such as the man who[m] I believe is [whatever he is]. Dunno if that supports my perception that the infinitive form is "stilted / dated" or not.
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
I find it hard to swallow in your second sentence. Your first translates to: I believe him (whom) to deserve that title. It sounds grammatically okay to me. But your second translates to: I believe the man deserves that title. It seems like “the man†is the subject, not object.
– user67265
3 hours ago
@user67265 StoneyB is right. In neither example is the covert relative word the subject of the relative clause. The subject is "I". In the first (assuming that the title has already been awarded) it is the 'raised' object of "believe" and the semantic, i.e. understood subject of "deserve". And in the second it is simply the subject of the embedded "deserves" clause.
– BillJ
1 hour ago
I thought I'd run up this NGram to show that who is increasingly replacing whom in such contexts. But (according to Google Books, at least) it isn't. Except if I replace the infinitive marker to with an "active" verb such as the man who[m] I believe is [whatever he is]. Dunno if that supports my perception that the infinitive form is "stilted / dated" or not.
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
I thought I'd run up this NGram to show that who is increasingly replacing whom in such contexts. But (according to Google Books, at least) it isn't. Except if I replace the infinitive marker to with an "active" verb such as the man who[m] I believe is [whatever he is]. Dunno if that supports my perception that the infinitive form is "stilted / dated" or not.
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago
I find it hard to swallow in your second sentence. Your first translates to: I believe him (whom) to deserve that title. It sounds grammatically okay to me. But your second translates to: I believe the man deserves that title. It seems like “the man†is the subject, not object.
– user67265
3 hours ago
I find it hard to swallow in your second sentence. Your first translates to: I believe him (whom) to deserve that title. It sounds grammatically okay to me. But your second translates to: I believe the man deserves that title. It seems like “the man†is the subject, not object.
– user67265
3 hours ago
@user67265 StoneyB is right. In neither example is the covert relative word the subject of the relative clause. The subject is "I". In the first (assuming that the title has already been awarded) it is the 'raised' object of "believe" and the semantic, i.e. understood subject of "deserve". And in the second it is simply the subject of the embedded "deserves" clause.
– BillJ
1 hour ago
@user67265 StoneyB is right. In neither example is the covert relative word the subject of the relative clause. The subject is "I". In the first (assuming that the title has already been awarded) it is the 'raised' object of "believe" and the semantic, i.e. understood subject of "deserve". And in the second it is simply the subject of the embedded "deserves" clause.
– BillJ
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
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Your final example He is the man I believe to deserve that title is syntactically valid (and may have been more common a century or two ago), but it sounds more than a bit stilted to me. More natural today would be He is the man [who / that] I believe deserves that title.
– FumbleFingers
4 hours ago
@FumbleFingers can it be this way?: he is the man I believe that deserves that title.
– user67265
3 hours ago
Shakespeare put the relativiser that after the (optional, parenthetical) I believe / think element in King Richard III - I am joyful to hear of their readiness, and am the man, I think, that shall set them in present action, so yeah - you can do such things. But some might think it's a little "awkward".
– FumbleFingers
3 hours ago