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Are there consequences to rejecting a job offer from my current employer that I felt was unfair? [closed]
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I work for a pretty large company, and without going into specifics I do have what you would call an "entry-level" job. However, my job requires months of education (provided by my employer), and you really don't master it without some added experience as well. The bottom line is that you couldn't take in just anyone to do the things I do — and this is even more true when it comes to the tasks I'll describe in this post.
I frequently get asked questions about job related errands by my colleagues, and note that there are people employed to do answer things like this so I'm already performing a "job" that others at my workplace are getting paid more to do out of loyalty to my fellow workmates. I'm feeling confident in my work so when a job offer related to this came up recently I was excited.
It turned out that the job offer would entail no change in salary, and that I would still perform my old tasks when the "new" services weren't required. Note that these "new" tasks are also being performed by other people at my work place, full time, with significantly higher wages than mine. The interviewers made it clear that the wage was non-negotiable, even after I suggested a "symbolic" difference in salary.
Upon being informed that this job offer entailed no real benefits for me except the chance to "show off" and maybe enjoy some benefits in the future, I politely declined the job offer at the beginning of the interview, after the introduction and some questions about the job. I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company. It has happened several times that other people in my departement has been used for temporary work in these fields, without any obvious benefits directly or afterwards.
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? Could this be legitimate grounds for reprimand or dismissal?
job-change communication employer-relations
edited Oct 2 '12 at 19:18
maple_shaft
15.8k75296
asked Oct 2 '12 at 9:21
pzkpfw
12416
closed as too localized by Jarrod Roberson, Elysian Fields♦, Oded, yannis, IDrinkandIKnowThings Oct 2 '12 at 14:49
This question is unlikely to help any future visitors; it is only relevant to a small geographic area, a specific moment in time, or an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet. For help making this question more broadly applicable, visit the help center. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
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I work for a pretty large company, and without going into specifics I do have what you would call an "entry-level" job. However, my job requires months of education (provided by my employer), and you really don't master it without some added experience as well. The bottom line is that you couldn't take in just anyone to do the things I do — and this is even more true when it comes to the tasks I'll describe in this post.
I frequently get asked questions about job related errands by my colleagues, and note that there are people employed to do answer things like this so I'm already performing a "job" that others at my workplace are getting paid more to do out of loyalty to my fellow workmates. I'm feeling confident in my work so when a job offer related to this came up recently I was excited.
It turned out that the job offer would entail no change in salary, and that I would still perform my old tasks when the "new" services weren't required. Note that these "new" tasks are also being performed by other people at my work place, full time, with significantly higher wages than mine. The interviewers made it clear that the wage was non-negotiable, even after I suggested a "symbolic" difference in salary.
Upon being informed that this job offer entailed no real benefits for me except the chance to "show off" and maybe enjoy some benefits in the future, I politely declined the job offer at the beginning of the interview, after the introduction and some questions about the job. I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company. It has happened several times that other people in my departement has been used for temporary work in these fields, without any obvious benefits directly or afterwards.
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? Could this be legitimate grounds for reprimand or dismissal?
job-change communication employer-relations
edited Oct 2 '12 at 19:18
maple_shaft
15.8k75296
asked Oct 2 '12 at 9:21
pzkpfw
12416
closed as too localized by Jarrod Roberson, Elysian Fields♦, Oded, yannis, IDrinkandIKnowThings Oct 2 '12 at 14:49
This question is unlikely to help any future visitors; it is only relevant to a small geographic area, a specific moment in time, or an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet. For help making this question more broadly applicable, visit the help center. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
You already did it so asking if it was the right thing to do is not constructive even if this was not to localized.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:50
1
BTW if you had not turned it down flatly you could have negotiated for a salary bump for this.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:54
1
I try not to consider what the company is taking away from me but what I am getting in return. Being in a situation like yourself I broke into the software development career without a formal CS education by taking additional responsibilities for no extra compensation. I feel to this day that I made the right move.
– maple_shaft
Oct 2 '12 at 19:22
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? - You refused to do a job, that your employeer requested you do, this means they could fire you with cause. Furthermore since there is no moral grounds for you to refuse doing this work they likely do have legal cause. It seems to me you have a poor work ethic if you are refusing addtional responsibilities just because your not being paid more.
– Ramhound
Oct 3 '12 at 13:28
Chad: Sorry if I wasn't clear on this, but they made it clear a salary bump was out of the question. maple_shaft: Great point, I would have considered this to a greater extent if I felt there was a real possibility of advancement, I think. Ramhound: I didn't refuse to "do work", I refused additional responsibilities that I wasn't paid for, that others in the workplace are being paid more to do. I am 100 % sure I have the law on my side.
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
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I work for a pretty large company, and without going into specifics I do have what you would call an "entry-level" job. However, my job requires months of education (provided by my employer), and you really don't master it without some added experience as well. The bottom line is that you couldn't take in just anyone to do the things I do — and this is even more true when it comes to the tasks I'll describe in this post.
I frequently get asked questions about job related errands by my colleagues, and note that there are people employed to do answer things like this so I'm already performing a "job" that others at my workplace are getting paid more to do out of loyalty to my fellow workmates. I'm feeling confident in my work so when a job offer related to this came up recently I was excited.
It turned out that the job offer would entail no change in salary, and that I would still perform my old tasks when the "new" services weren't required. Note that these "new" tasks are also being performed by other people at my work place, full time, with significantly higher wages than mine. The interviewers made it clear that the wage was non-negotiable, even after I suggested a "symbolic" difference in salary.
Upon being informed that this job offer entailed no real benefits for me except the chance to "show off" and maybe enjoy some benefits in the future, I politely declined the job offer at the beginning of the interview, after the introduction and some questions about the job. I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company. It has happened several times that other people in my departement has been used for temporary work in these fields, without any obvious benefits directly or afterwards.
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? Could this be legitimate grounds for reprimand or dismissal?
job-change communication employer-relations
edited Oct 2 '12 at 19:18
maple_shaft
15.8k75296
asked Oct 2 '12 at 9:21
pzkpfw
12416
I work for a pretty large company, and without going into specifics I do have what you would call an "entry-level" job. However, my job requires months of education (provided by my employer), and you really don't master it without some added experience as well. The bottom line is that you couldn't take in just anyone to do the things I do — and this is even more true when it comes to the tasks I'll describe in this post.
I frequently get asked questions about job related errands by my colleagues, and note that there are people employed to do answer things like this so I'm already performing a "job" that others at my workplace are getting paid more to do out of loyalty to my fellow workmates. I'm feeling confident in my work so when a job offer related to this came up recently I was excited.
It turned out that the job offer would entail no change in salary, and that I would still perform my old tasks when the "new" services weren't required. Note that these "new" tasks are also being performed by other people at my work place, full time, with significantly higher wages than mine. The interviewers made it clear that the wage was non-negotiable, even after I suggested a "symbolic" difference in salary.
Upon being informed that this job offer entailed no real benefits for me except the chance to "show off" and maybe enjoy some benefits in the future, I politely declined the job offer at the beginning of the interview, after the introduction and some questions about the job. I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company. It has happened several times that other people in my departement has been used for temporary work in these fields, without any obvious benefits directly or afterwards.
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? Could this be legitimate grounds for reprimand or dismissal?
job-change communication employer-relations
edited Oct 2 '12 at 19:18
maple_shaft
15.8k75296
asked Oct 2 '12 at 9:21
pzkpfw
12416
edited Oct 2 '12 at 19:18
maple_shaft
15.8k75296
edited Oct 2 '12 at 19:18
maple_shaft
15.8k75296
edited Oct 2 '12 at 19:18
maple_shaft
15.8k75296
15.8k75296
asked Oct 2 '12 at 9:21
pzkpfw
12416
asked Oct 2 '12 at 9:21
pzkpfw
12416
asked Oct 2 '12 at 9:21
pzkpfw
12416
12416
closed as too localized by Jarrod Roberson, Elysian Fields♦, Oded, yannis, IDrinkandIKnowThings Oct 2 '12 at 14:49
This question is unlikely to help any future visitors; it is only relevant to a small geographic area, a specific moment in time, or an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet. For help making this question more broadly applicable, visit the help center. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
closed as too localized by Jarrod Roberson, Elysian Fields♦, Oded, yannis, IDrinkandIKnowThings Oct 2 '12 at 14:49
This question is unlikely to help any future visitors; it is only relevant to a small geographic area, a specific moment in time, or an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet. For help making this question more broadly applicable, visit the help center. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
You already did it so asking if it was the right thing to do is not constructive even if this was not to localized.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:50
1
BTW if you had not turned it down flatly you could have negotiated for a salary bump for this.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:54
1
I try not to consider what the company is taking away from me but what I am getting in return. Being in a situation like yourself I broke into the software development career without a formal CS education by taking additional responsibilities for no extra compensation. I feel to this day that I made the right move.
– maple_shaft
Oct 2 '12 at 19:22
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? - You refused to do a job, that your employeer requested you do, this means they could fire you with cause. Furthermore since there is no moral grounds for you to refuse doing this work they likely do have legal cause. It seems to me you have a poor work ethic if you are refusing addtional responsibilities just because your not being paid more.
– Ramhound
Oct 3 '12 at 13:28
Chad: Sorry if I wasn't clear on this, but they made it clear a salary bump was out of the question. maple_shaft: Great point, I would have considered this to a greater extent if I felt there was a real possibility of advancement, I think. Ramhound: I didn't refuse to "do work", I refused additional responsibilities that I wasn't paid for, that others in the workplace are being paid more to do. I am 100 % sure I have the law on my side.
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
 |Â
show 1 more comment
You already did it so asking if it was the right thing to do is not constructive even if this was not to localized.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:50
1
BTW if you had not turned it down flatly you could have negotiated for a salary bump for this.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:54
1
I try not to consider what the company is taking away from me but what I am getting in return. Being in a situation like yourself I broke into the software development career without a formal CS education by taking additional responsibilities for no extra compensation. I feel to this day that I made the right move.
– maple_shaft
Oct 2 '12 at 19:22
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? - You refused to do a job, that your employeer requested you do, this means they could fire you with cause. Furthermore since there is no moral grounds for you to refuse doing this work they likely do have legal cause. It seems to me you have a poor work ethic if you are refusing addtional responsibilities just because your not being paid more.
– Ramhound
Oct 3 '12 at 13:28
Chad: Sorry if I wasn't clear on this, but they made it clear a salary bump was out of the question. maple_shaft: Great point, I would have considered this to a greater extent if I felt there was a real possibility of advancement, I think. Ramhound: I didn't refuse to "do work", I refused additional responsibilities that I wasn't paid for, that others in the workplace are being paid more to do. I am 100 % sure I have the law on my side.
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
You already did it so asking if it was the right thing to do is not constructive even if this was not to localized.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:50
You already did it so asking if it was the right thing to do is not constructive even if this was not to localized.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:50
1
1
BTW if you had not turned it down flatly you could have negotiated for a salary bump for this.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:54
BTW if you had not turned it down flatly you could have negotiated for a salary bump for this.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:54
1
1
I try not to consider what the company is taking away from me but what I am getting in return. Being in a situation like yourself I broke into the software development career without a formal CS education by taking additional responsibilities for no extra compensation. I feel to this day that I made the right move.
– maple_shaft
Oct 2 '12 at 19:22
I try not to consider what the company is taking away from me but what I am getting in return. Being in a situation like yourself I broke into the software development career without a formal CS education by taking additional responsibilities for no extra compensation. I feel to this day that I made the right move.
– maple_shaft
Oct 2 '12 at 19:22
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? - You refused to do a job, that your employeer requested you do, this means they could fire you with cause. Furthermore since there is no moral grounds for you to refuse doing this work they likely do have legal cause. It seems to me you have a poor work ethic if you are refusing addtional responsibilities just because your not being paid more.
– Ramhound
Oct 3 '12 at 13:28
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? - You refused to do a job, that your employeer requested you do, this means they could fire you with cause. Furthermore since there is no moral grounds for you to refuse doing this work they likely do have legal cause. It seems to me you have a poor work ethic if you are refusing addtional responsibilities just because your not being paid more.
– Ramhound
Oct 3 '12 at 13:28
Chad: Sorry if I wasn't clear on this, but they made it clear a salary bump was out of the question. maple_shaft: Great point, I would have considered this to a greater extent if I felt there was a real possibility of advancement, I think. Ramhound: I didn't refuse to "do work", I refused additional responsibilities that I wasn't paid for, that others in the workplace are being paid more to do. I am 100 % sure I have the law on my side.
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
Chad: Sorry if I wasn't clear on this, but they made it clear a salary bump was out of the question. maple_shaft: Great point, I would have considered this to a greater extent if I felt there was a real possibility of advancement, I think. Ramhound: I didn't refuse to "do work", I refused additional responsibilities that I wasn't paid for, that others in the workplace are being paid more to do. I am 100 % sure I have the law on my side.
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
 |Â
show 1 more comment
4 Answers
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I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company.
Every company expects this. Most are pragmatic enough to realize that even the greenest entry-level worker can see through such exploitation so provide incentives.
If others in the company are doing work you can do for (significantly) more, then its reasonable to think you could be doing that work for significantly more. If your company doesn't want to be the beneficiary of that arrangement, another will be.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:32
Telastyn
33.9k977120
Thank you for your very clear answer, it remains to be seen what my work is worth :)
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I have seen promotions being used as a 'bonus' when the budget did not allow for real salary increases. There is a benefit in accepting offers like that because it helps to build your resume in the long term. When applying to your next job, they will not know that you did not get paid more, they will only see a career progression (which is a good thing).
That being said, once you do accept a "do more with less" kind of a role, there is very little incentive for you to stay in the company. That's why from a manager's perspective I think this is a terrible idea - you are essentially helping your current employees bargain for a higher salary elsewhere.
Is it worth it for you? The devil is in the details.
EDIT
I re-read the end of your question and realized that I didn't quite answer it.
Will they have a worse opinion of you? It depends on how smart they are. If they're smart, they'll understand that the idea of 'duping' you into working harder for no clear benefits did not work. Their opinon will not change (I've seen this kind of thing play out for some co-workers). Conversely, if they drink a lot of their corporate kool aid and have a hard time understanding why someone doesn't want to selflessly dedicate their life to this company, the shareholders, and the upper management, then you're screwed :).
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:23
MrFox
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A hard call. My usual question to myself is "would I do better elsewhere?"
Promotions can be a catch-22 - in many cases, you can't get the job until you prove you can do the job. It's not unusual in many careers for peole to end up doing the work of a higher level job before they actually get a promotion. This has been particularly true in my career where I've done a mix of engineering and management work - both technically and in team responsibility - every promotion I attained, I was rewarded with 6 months to a year after taking on the larger work. And generally, when I move jobs, the move ends up being lateral - new work, but the same basic seniority/responsibility level.
I know that different careers work differently - in some cases, changing companies is the only way to get ahead. I strongly suspect that it depends on the nature of the business and the premium placed on internal knowledge and trust.
Here's some questions I'd offer you to ask to see if your strategy is a good one:
What's the typical process? For other folks who have been promoted, what was the cycle - did they have to take on extra work to get ahead? How long after taking on the work did they get a promotion? What key skills did they have to demonatrate to get there? Were they mentored? Were any promises made?
What are the cases of failure? Are there people in your company working significantly above their pay grade who have been doing so for a long time (over a year, in my book, but industries vary)? Why haven't they been promoted? In so far as it is possible, try to get a manager point of view as well as an independant contributor view. Look for signs of any epidemic - multiple cases of unexplained promotion delays point to a management structure with a serious problem.
What are your options elsewhere? It sounds like your company has paid for training and taken on the learning curve as you some up to speed. Was the training only relevant internally? What is the applicability of your experience elsewhere? Is the next grade up hard to achieve and rarely offered as an external position? That may make it more tantalizing to try internally for a promotion, even if you start with no extra benefits.
At least in the US, it can be very hard to promote someone and then demote them if they fail. So in many cases, companies are cautious about promotions - they want to know you can do the job before they give you the extra money and official responsibility.
In some cases, this is a win - it means that you have the opportunity to try, fail, get coaching, improve and eventually succeed without the added pressure of it being part of your job description so that you are failing if you can't get it right the first time. In other cases, asking people to work extra hard for no extra pay can be abused to the point where many employees are working above their pay grade with no hope of promotion. The big difference is those first two questions - if you can establish a clear set of cases of promotions and a reasonable explanation for why the not-promoted people were not qualified for a promotion - then you have a basis to believe that if you can do the job, you'll get the promotion.
If you see a case where promotion/lack of promotion is unclear and you suspect that the determining factors are not related to job performance - then it may be time to plan your next step in a such a way that you are well positioned to leave the company when the time arises. Just be aware of what's really available elsewhere and which of your skills are best strength. You may find that even in a weird company where promotions will be tricky, it's a better fit for you, personally, for any number of work or life related reasons.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:52
bethlakshmi
70.4k4136277
1) No, other folks did not take on this extra work. This was a warning flag to me. 2) Promotion delays are to save money. They have some "real" staff and some of this "extra" staff so that they won't have to hire more "real" staff. 3) I'm increasingly getting the feeling that internal promotion is very hard, so I'll probably look for possibilities elsewhere. It's also obvious that promotions happen largely because of "likeability" from current staff, which is sad. Thank you for your comment!
– pzkpfw
Oct 4 '12 at 0:21
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I'm not sure anyone can answer that question except yourself. You seem to have a pretty firm grasp of the situation and from what I can read, you took the decision based on rational facts. Beyond that, right or wrong is highly subjective. You have to weigh the potential consequences of your decision against the "extra work for no extra pay" and determine if you think it was worth it.
In general, I try to coach junior professionals to be careful not to pass up offers and opportunities too easily early in their careers. It costs more to be picky early on than it does after 10 years when you might have an easier time matching offers and finding alternatives. Building a good CV and a wide set of experiences often pay higher dividend in medium/long run than the short-term pay-off of a nominal pay-raise. And always remember: pride comes with a cost.
But ultimately, every situation is unique and you have to do what is right for yourself.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 12:13
pap
5,2561524
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company.
Every company expects this. Most are pragmatic enough to realize that even the greenest entry-level worker can see through such exploitation so provide incentives.
If others in the company are doing work you can do for (significantly) more, then its reasonable to think you could be doing that work for significantly more. If your company doesn't want to be the beneficiary of that arrangement, another will be.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:32
Telastyn
33.9k977120
Thank you for your very clear answer, it remains to be seen what my work is worth :)
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company.
Every company expects this. Most are pragmatic enough to realize that even the greenest entry-level worker can see through such exploitation so provide incentives.
If others in the company are doing work you can do for (significantly) more, then its reasonable to think you could be doing that work for significantly more. If your company doesn't want to be the beneficiary of that arrangement, another will be.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:32
Telastyn
33.9k977120
Thank you for your very clear answer, it remains to be seen what my work is worth :)
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company.
Every company expects this. Most are pragmatic enough to realize that even the greenest entry-level worker can see through such exploitation so provide incentives.
If others in the company are doing work you can do for (significantly) more, then its reasonable to think you could be doing that work for significantly more. If your company doesn't want to be the beneficiary of that arrangement, another will be.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:32
Telastyn
33.9k977120
I feel frustrated by that it seems almost company policy to expect people to do more demanding work out of nothing but presumed loyalty to the company.
Every company expects this. Most are pragmatic enough to realize that even the greenest entry-level worker can see through such exploitation so provide incentives.
If others in the company are doing work you can do for (significantly) more, then its reasonable to think you could be doing that work for significantly more. If your company doesn't want to be the beneficiary of that arrangement, another will be.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:32
Telastyn
33.9k977120
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:32
Telastyn
33.9k977120
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:32
Telastyn
33.9k977120
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:32
Telastyn
33.9k977120
33.9k977120
Thank you for your very clear answer, it remains to be seen what my work is worth :)
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
add a comment |Â
Thank you for your very clear answer, it remains to be seen what my work is worth :)
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
Thank you for your very clear answer, it remains to be seen what my work is worth :)
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
Thank you for your very clear answer, it remains to be seen what my work is worth :)
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I have seen promotions being used as a 'bonus' when the budget did not allow for real salary increases. There is a benefit in accepting offers like that because it helps to build your resume in the long term. When applying to your next job, they will not know that you did not get paid more, they will only see a career progression (which is a good thing).
That being said, once you do accept a "do more with less" kind of a role, there is very little incentive for you to stay in the company. That's why from a manager's perspective I think this is a terrible idea - you are essentially helping your current employees bargain for a higher salary elsewhere.
Is it worth it for you? The devil is in the details.
EDIT
I re-read the end of your question and realized that I didn't quite answer it.
Will they have a worse opinion of you? It depends on how smart they are. If they're smart, they'll understand that the idea of 'duping' you into working harder for no clear benefits did not work. Their opinon will not change (I've seen this kind of thing play out for some co-workers). Conversely, if they drink a lot of their corporate kool aid and have a hard time understanding why someone doesn't want to selflessly dedicate their life to this company, the shareholders, and the upper management, then you're screwed :).
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:23
MrFox
11.8k33857
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I have seen promotions being used as a 'bonus' when the budget did not allow for real salary increases. There is a benefit in accepting offers like that because it helps to build your resume in the long term. When applying to your next job, they will not know that you did not get paid more, they will only see a career progression (which is a good thing).
That being said, once you do accept a "do more with less" kind of a role, there is very little incentive for you to stay in the company. That's why from a manager's perspective I think this is a terrible idea - you are essentially helping your current employees bargain for a higher salary elsewhere.
Is it worth it for you? The devil is in the details.
EDIT
I re-read the end of your question and realized that I didn't quite answer it.
Will they have a worse opinion of you? It depends on how smart they are. If they're smart, they'll understand that the idea of 'duping' you into working harder for no clear benefits did not work. Their opinon will not change (I've seen this kind of thing play out for some co-workers). Conversely, if they drink a lot of their corporate kool aid and have a hard time understanding why someone doesn't want to selflessly dedicate their life to this company, the shareholders, and the upper management, then you're screwed :).
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:23
MrFox
11.8k33857
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up vote
2
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up vote
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I have seen promotions being used as a 'bonus' when the budget did not allow for real salary increases. There is a benefit in accepting offers like that because it helps to build your resume in the long term. When applying to your next job, they will not know that you did not get paid more, they will only see a career progression (which is a good thing).
That being said, once you do accept a "do more with less" kind of a role, there is very little incentive for you to stay in the company. That's why from a manager's perspective I think this is a terrible idea - you are essentially helping your current employees bargain for a higher salary elsewhere.
Is it worth it for you? The devil is in the details.
EDIT
I re-read the end of your question and realized that I didn't quite answer it.
Will they have a worse opinion of you? It depends on how smart they are. If they're smart, they'll understand that the idea of 'duping' you into working harder for no clear benefits did not work. Their opinon will not change (I've seen this kind of thing play out for some co-workers). Conversely, if they drink a lot of their corporate kool aid and have a hard time understanding why someone doesn't want to selflessly dedicate their life to this company, the shareholders, and the upper management, then you're screwed :).
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:23
MrFox
11.8k33857
I have seen promotions being used as a 'bonus' when the budget did not allow for real salary increases. There is a benefit in accepting offers like that because it helps to build your resume in the long term. When applying to your next job, they will not know that you did not get paid more, they will only see a career progression (which is a good thing).
That being said, once you do accept a "do more with less" kind of a role, there is very little incentive for you to stay in the company. That's why from a manager's perspective I think this is a terrible idea - you are essentially helping your current employees bargain for a higher salary elsewhere.
Is it worth it for you? The devil is in the details.
EDIT
I re-read the end of your question and realized that I didn't quite answer it.
Will they have a worse opinion of you? It depends on how smart they are. If they're smart, they'll understand that the idea of 'duping' you into working harder for no clear benefits did not work. Their opinon will not change (I've seen this kind of thing play out for some co-workers). Conversely, if they drink a lot of their corporate kool aid and have a hard time understanding why someone doesn't want to selflessly dedicate their life to this company, the shareholders, and the upper management, then you're screwed :).
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:23
MrFox
11.8k33857
edited Oct 2 '12 at 14:29
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:23
MrFox
11.8k33857
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:23
MrFox
11.8k33857
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:23
MrFox
11.8k33857
11.8k33857
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
A hard call. My usual question to myself is "would I do better elsewhere?"
Promotions can be a catch-22 - in many cases, you can't get the job until you prove you can do the job. It's not unusual in many careers for peole to end up doing the work of a higher level job before they actually get a promotion. This has been particularly true in my career where I've done a mix of engineering and management work - both technically and in team responsibility - every promotion I attained, I was rewarded with 6 months to a year after taking on the larger work. And generally, when I move jobs, the move ends up being lateral - new work, but the same basic seniority/responsibility level.
I know that different careers work differently - in some cases, changing companies is the only way to get ahead. I strongly suspect that it depends on the nature of the business and the premium placed on internal knowledge and trust.
Here's some questions I'd offer you to ask to see if your strategy is a good one:
What's the typical process? For other folks who have been promoted, what was the cycle - did they have to take on extra work to get ahead? How long after taking on the work did they get a promotion? What key skills did they have to demonatrate to get there? Were they mentored? Were any promises made?
What are the cases of failure? Are there people in your company working significantly above their pay grade who have been doing so for a long time (over a year, in my book, but industries vary)? Why haven't they been promoted? In so far as it is possible, try to get a manager point of view as well as an independant contributor view. Look for signs of any epidemic - multiple cases of unexplained promotion delays point to a management structure with a serious problem.
What are your options elsewhere? It sounds like your company has paid for training and taken on the learning curve as you some up to speed. Was the training only relevant internally? What is the applicability of your experience elsewhere? Is the next grade up hard to achieve and rarely offered as an external position? That may make it more tantalizing to try internally for a promotion, even if you start with no extra benefits.
At least in the US, it can be very hard to promote someone and then demote them if they fail. So in many cases, companies are cautious about promotions - they want to know you can do the job before they give you the extra money and official responsibility.
In some cases, this is a win - it means that you have the opportunity to try, fail, get coaching, improve and eventually succeed without the added pressure of it being part of your job description so that you are failing if you can't get it right the first time. In other cases, asking people to work extra hard for no extra pay can be abused to the point where many employees are working above their pay grade with no hope of promotion. The big difference is those first two questions - if you can establish a clear set of cases of promotions and a reasonable explanation for why the not-promoted people were not qualified for a promotion - then you have a basis to believe that if you can do the job, you'll get the promotion.
If you see a case where promotion/lack of promotion is unclear and you suspect that the determining factors are not related to job performance - then it may be time to plan your next step in a such a way that you are well positioned to leave the company when the time arises. Just be aware of what's really available elsewhere and which of your skills are best strength. You may find that even in a weird company where promotions will be tricky, it's a better fit for you, personally, for any number of work or life related reasons.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:52
bethlakshmi
70.4k4136277
1) No, other folks did not take on this extra work. This was a warning flag to me. 2) Promotion delays are to save money. They have some "real" staff and some of this "extra" staff so that they won't have to hire more "real" staff. 3) I'm increasingly getting the feeling that internal promotion is very hard, so I'll probably look for possibilities elsewhere. It's also obvious that promotions happen largely because of "likeability" from current staff, which is sad. Thank you for your comment!
– pzkpfw
Oct 4 '12 at 0:21
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
A hard call. My usual question to myself is "would I do better elsewhere?"
Promotions can be a catch-22 - in many cases, you can't get the job until you prove you can do the job. It's not unusual in many careers for peole to end up doing the work of a higher level job before they actually get a promotion. This has been particularly true in my career where I've done a mix of engineering and management work - both technically and in team responsibility - every promotion I attained, I was rewarded with 6 months to a year after taking on the larger work. And generally, when I move jobs, the move ends up being lateral - new work, but the same basic seniority/responsibility level.
I know that different careers work differently - in some cases, changing companies is the only way to get ahead. I strongly suspect that it depends on the nature of the business and the premium placed on internal knowledge and trust.
Here's some questions I'd offer you to ask to see if your strategy is a good one:
What's the typical process? For other folks who have been promoted, what was the cycle - did they have to take on extra work to get ahead? How long after taking on the work did they get a promotion? What key skills did they have to demonatrate to get there? Were they mentored? Were any promises made?
What are the cases of failure? Are there people in your company working significantly above their pay grade who have been doing so for a long time (over a year, in my book, but industries vary)? Why haven't they been promoted? In so far as it is possible, try to get a manager point of view as well as an independant contributor view. Look for signs of any epidemic - multiple cases of unexplained promotion delays point to a management structure with a serious problem.
What are your options elsewhere? It sounds like your company has paid for training and taken on the learning curve as you some up to speed. Was the training only relevant internally? What is the applicability of your experience elsewhere? Is the next grade up hard to achieve and rarely offered as an external position? That may make it more tantalizing to try internally for a promotion, even if you start with no extra benefits.
At least in the US, it can be very hard to promote someone and then demote them if they fail. So in many cases, companies are cautious about promotions - they want to know you can do the job before they give you the extra money and official responsibility.
In some cases, this is a win - it means that you have the opportunity to try, fail, get coaching, improve and eventually succeed without the added pressure of it being part of your job description so that you are failing if you can't get it right the first time. In other cases, asking people to work extra hard for no extra pay can be abused to the point where many employees are working above their pay grade with no hope of promotion. The big difference is those first two questions - if you can establish a clear set of cases of promotions and a reasonable explanation for why the not-promoted people were not qualified for a promotion - then you have a basis to believe that if you can do the job, you'll get the promotion.
If you see a case where promotion/lack of promotion is unclear and you suspect that the determining factors are not related to job performance - then it may be time to plan your next step in a such a way that you are well positioned to leave the company when the time arises. Just be aware of what's really available elsewhere and which of your skills are best strength. You may find that even in a weird company where promotions will be tricky, it's a better fit for you, personally, for any number of work or life related reasons.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:52
bethlakshmi
70.4k4136277
1) No, other folks did not take on this extra work. This was a warning flag to me. 2) Promotion delays are to save money. They have some "real" staff and some of this "extra" staff so that they won't have to hire more "real" staff. 3) I'm increasingly getting the feeling that internal promotion is very hard, so I'll probably look for possibilities elsewhere. It's also obvious that promotions happen largely because of "likeability" from current staff, which is sad. Thank you for your comment!
– pzkpfw
Oct 4 '12 at 0:21
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
A hard call. My usual question to myself is "would I do better elsewhere?"
Promotions can be a catch-22 - in many cases, you can't get the job until you prove you can do the job. It's not unusual in many careers for peole to end up doing the work of a higher level job before they actually get a promotion. This has been particularly true in my career where I've done a mix of engineering and management work - both technically and in team responsibility - every promotion I attained, I was rewarded with 6 months to a year after taking on the larger work. And generally, when I move jobs, the move ends up being lateral - new work, but the same basic seniority/responsibility level.
I know that different careers work differently - in some cases, changing companies is the only way to get ahead. I strongly suspect that it depends on the nature of the business and the premium placed on internal knowledge and trust.
Here's some questions I'd offer you to ask to see if your strategy is a good one:
What's the typical process? For other folks who have been promoted, what was the cycle - did they have to take on extra work to get ahead? How long after taking on the work did they get a promotion? What key skills did they have to demonatrate to get there? Were they mentored? Were any promises made?
What are the cases of failure? Are there people in your company working significantly above their pay grade who have been doing so for a long time (over a year, in my book, but industries vary)? Why haven't they been promoted? In so far as it is possible, try to get a manager point of view as well as an independant contributor view. Look for signs of any epidemic - multiple cases of unexplained promotion delays point to a management structure with a serious problem.
What are your options elsewhere? It sounds like your company has paid for training and taken on the learning curve as you some up to speed. Was the training only relevant internally? What is the applicability of your experience elsewhere? Is the next grade up hard to achieve and rarely offered as an external position? That may make it more tantalizing to try internally for a promotion, even if you start with no extra benefits.
At least in the US, it can be very hard to promote someone and then demote them if they fail. So in many cases, companies are cautious about promotions - they want to know you can do the job before they give you the extra money and official responsibility.
In some cases, this is a win - it means that you have the opportunity to try, fail, get coaching, improve and eventually succeed without the added pressure of it being part of your job description so that you are failing if you can't get it right the first time. In other cases, asking people to work extra hard for no extra pay can be abused to the point where many employees are working above their pay grade with no hope of promotion. The big difference is those first two questions - if you can establish a clear set of cases of promotions and a reasonable explanation for why the not-promoted people were not qualified for a promotion - then you have a basis to believe that if you can do the job, you'll get the promotion.
If you see a case where promotion/lack of promotion is unclear and you suspect that the determining factors are not related to job performance - then it may be time to plan your next step in a such a way that you are well positioned to leave the company when the time arises. Just be aware of what's really available elsewhere and which of your skills are best strength. You may find that even in a weird company where promotions will be tricky, it's a better fit for you, personally, for any number of work or life related reasons.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:52
bethlakshmi
70.4k4136277
A hard call. My usual question to myself is "would I do better elsewhere?"
Promotions can be a catch-22 - in many cases, you can't get the job until you prove you can do the job. It's not unusual in many careers for peole to end up doing the work of a higher level job before they actually get a promotion. This has been particularly true in my career where I've done a mix of engineering and management work - both technically and in team responsibility - every promotion I attained, I was rewarded with 6 months to a year after taking on the larger work. And generally, when I move jobs, the move ends up being lateral - new work, but the same basic seniority/responsibility level.
I know that different careers work differently - in some cases, changing companies is the only way to get ahead. I strongly suspect that it depends on the nature of the business and the premium placed on internal knowledge and trust.
Here's some questions I'd offer you to ask to see if your strategy is a good one:
What's the typical process? For other folks who have been promoted, what was the cycle - did they have to take on extra work to get ahead? How long after taking on the work did they get a promotion? What key skills did they have to demonatrate to get there? Were they mentored? Were any promises made?
What are the cases of failure? Are there people in your company working significantly above their pay grade who have been doing so for a long time (over a year, in my book, but industries vary)? Why haven't they been promoted? In so far as it is possible, try to get a manager point of view as well as an independant contributor view. Look for signs of any epidemic - multiple cases of unexplained promotion delays point to a management structure with a serious problem.
What are your options elsewhere? It sounds like your company has paid for training and taken on the learning curve as you some up to speed. Was the training only relevant internally? What is the applicability of your experience elsewhere? Is the next grade up hard to achieve and rarely offered as an external position? That may make it more tantalizing to try internally for a promotion, even if you start with no extra benefits.
At least in the US, it can be very hard to promote someone and then demote them if they fail. So in many cases, companies are cautious about promotions - they want to know you can do the job before they give you the extra money and official responsibility.
In some cases, this is a win - it means that you have the opportunity to try, fail, get coaching, improve and eventually succeed without the added pressure of it being part of your job description so that you are failing if you can't get it right the first time. In other cases, asking people to work extra hard for no extra pay can be abused to the point where many employees are working above their pay grade with no hope of promotion. The big difference is those first two questions - if you can establish a clear set of cases of promotions and a reasonable explanation for why the not-promoted people were not qualified for a promotion - then you have a basis to believe that if you can do the job, you'll get the promotion.
If you see a case where promotion/lack of promotion is unclear and you suspect that the determining factors are not related to job performance - then it may be time to plan your next step in a such a way that you are well positioned to leave the company when the time arises. Just be aware of what's really available elsewhere and which of your skills are best strength. You may find that even in a weird company where promotions will be tricky, it's a better fit for you, personally, for any number of work or life related reasons.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:52
bethlakshmi
70.4k4136277
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:52
bethlakshmi
70.4k4136277
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:52
bethlakshmi
70.4k4136277
answered Oct 2 '12 at 14:52
bethlakshmi
70.4k4136277
70.4k4136277
1) No, other folks did not take on this extra work. This was a warning flag to me. 2) Promotion delays are to save money. They have some "real" staff and some of this "extra" staff so that they won't have to hire more "real" staff. 3) I'm increasingly getting the feeling that internal promotion is very hard, so I'll probably look for possibilities elsewhere. It's also obvious that promotions happen largely because of "likeability" from current staff, which is sad. Thank you for your comment!
– pzkpfw
Oct 4 '12 at 0:21
add a comment |Â
1) No, other folks did not take on this extra work. This was a warning flag to me. 2) Promotion delays are to save money. They have some "real" staff and some of this "extra" staff so that they won't have to hire more "real" staff. 3) I'm increasingly getting the feeling that internal promotion is very hard, so I'll probably look for possibilities elsewhere. It's also obvious that promotions happen largely because of "likeability" from current staff, which is sad. Thank you for your comment!
– pzkpfw
Oct 4 '12 at 0:21
1) No, other folks did not take on this extra work. This was a warning flag to me. 2) Promotion delays are to save money. They have some "real" staff and some of this "extra" staff so that they won't have to hire more "real" staff. 3) I'm increasingly getting the feeling that internal promotion is very hard, so I'll probably look for possibilities elsewhere. It's also obvious that promotions happen largely because of "likeability" from current staff, which is sad. Thank you for your comment!
– pzkpfw
Oct 4 '12 at 0:21
1) No, other folks did not take on this extra work. This was a warning flag to me. 2) Promotion delays are to save money. They have some "real" staff and some of this "extra" staff so that they won't have to hire more "real" staff. 3) I'm increasingly getting the feeling that internal promotion is very hard, so I'll probably look for possibilities elsewhere. It's also obvious that promotions happen largely because of "likeability" from current staff, which is sad. Thank you for your comment!
– pzkpfw
Oct 4 '12 at 0:21
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
I'm not sure anyone can answer that question except yourself. You seem to have a pretty firm grasp of the situation and from what I can read, you took the decision based on rational facts. Beyond that, right or wrong is highly subjective. You have to weigh the potential consequences of your decision against the "extra work for no extra pay" and determine if you think it was worth it.
In general, I try to coach junior professionals to be careful not to pass up offers and opportunities too easily early in their careers. It costs more to be picky early on than it does after 10 years when you might have an easier time matching offers and finding alternatives. Building a good CV and a wide set of experiences often pay higher dividend in medium/long run than the short-term pay-off of a nominal pay-raise. And always remember: pride comes with a cost.
But ultimately, every situation is unique and you have to do what is right for yourself.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 12:13
pap
5,2561524
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
I'm not sure anyone can answer that question except yourself. You seem to have a pretty firm grasp of the situation and from what I can read, you took the decision based on rational facts. Beyond that, right or wrong is highly subjective. You have to weigh the potential consequences of your decision against the "extra work for no extra pay" and determine if you think it was worth it.
In general, I try to coach junior professionals to be careful not to pass up offers and opportunities too easily early in their careers. It costs more to be picky early on than it does after 10 years when you might have an easier time matching offers and finding alternatives. Building a good CV and a wide set of experiences often pay higher dividend in medium/long run than the short-term pay-off of a nominal pay-raise. And always remember: pride comes with a cost.
But ultimately, every situation is unique and you have to do what is right for yourself.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 12:13
pap
5,2561524
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
up vote
-2
down vote
I'm not sure anyone can answer that question except yourself. You seem to have a pretty firm grasp of the situation and from what I can read, you took the decision based on rational facts. Beyond that, right or wrong is highly subjective. You have to weigh the potential consequences of your decision against the "extra work for no extra pay" and determine if you think it was worth it.
In general, I try to coach junior professionals to be careful not to pass up offers and opportunities too easily early in their careers. It costs more to be picky early on than it does after 10 years when you might have an easier time matching offers and finding alternatives. Building a good CV and a wide set of experiences often pay higher dividend in medium/long run than the short-term pay-off of a nominal pay-raise. And always remember: pride comes with a cost.
But ultimately, every situation is unique and you have to do what is right for yourself.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 12:13
pap
5,2561524
I'm not sure anyone can answer that question except yourself. You seem to have a pretty firm grasp of the situation and from what I can read, you took the decision based on rational facts. Beyond that, right or wrong is highly subjective. You have to weigh the potential consequences of your decision against the "extra work for no extra pay" and determine if you think it was worth it.
In general, I try to coach junior professionals to be careful not to pass up offers and opportunities too easily early in their careers. It costs more to be picky early on than it does after 10 years when you might have an easier time matching offers and finding alternatives. Building a good CV and a wide set of experiences often pay higher dividend in medium/long run than the short-term pay-off of a nominal pay-raise. And always remember: pride comes with a cost.
But ultimately, every situation is unique and you have to do what is right for yourself.
answered Oct 2 '12 at 12:13
pap
5,2561524
answered Oct 2 '12 at 12:13
pap
5,2561524
answered Oct 2 '12 at 12:13
pap
5,2561524
answered Oct 2 '12 at 12:13
pap
5,2561524
5,2561524
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
You already did it so asking if it was the right thing to do is not constructive even if this was not to localized.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:50
1
BTW if you had not turned it down flatly you could have negotiated for a salary bump for this.
– IDrinkandIKnowThings
Oct 2 '12 at 14:54
1
I try not to consider what the company is taking away from me but what I am getting in return. Being in a situation like yourself I broke into the software development career without a formal CS education by taking additional responsibilities for no extra compensation. I feel to this day that I made the right move.
– maple_shaft
Oct 2 '12 at 19:22
Is it possible that there are adverse consequences to me rejecting a job offer for a different job from my current employer? - You refused to do a job, that your employeer requested you do, this means they could fire you with cause. Furthermore since there is no moral grounds for you to refuse doing this work they likely do have legal cause. It seems to me you have a poor work ethic if you are refusing addtional responsibilities just because your not being paid more.
– Ramhound
Oct 3 '12 at 13:28
Chad: Sorry if I wasn't clear on this, but they made it clear a salary bump was out of the question. maple_shaft: Great point, I would have considered this to a greater extent if I felt there was a real possibility of advancement, I think. Ramhound: I didn't refuse to "do work", I refused additional responsibilities that I wasn't paid for, that others in the workplace are being paid more to do. I am 100 % sure I have the law on my side.
– pzkpfw
Oct 3 '12 at 21:34