Mixing
Transitioning to a new position
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My company has two offices, one on the East Coast and one on the West Coast. I recently decided to move to the West Coast city, for personal reasons. I am moving in four months.
Each office has different departments and at one point, I had not decided whether I would plan on transferring, applying to a different department or resign altogether. However, recently an upper manager, from the West Coast office, got wind of the move and approached me to offer a position in a different department, which is available now.
I spoke with my current supervisor and gave her all the details and accepted the new position. It was then up to both managers to discuss the transition timeline. I expressed my desire to have an equal compromise and to spend the next two months training and preparing my successor here on the East Coast and the last two months spending that time training and working remotely until I move to the West Coast for the new role.
Did I mention I am taking a pay cut for this new position? It is a compromise for me on a personal level as well.
My new supervisor agreed the compromise timeline, would work well for the new department, they could cover something temporarily until I can start completely. Well my current manager does not agree with this compromise and plans to have me continue in my current role for the next four months. Actually, more work will be put on my plate and thus resulting in the reason why I cannot leave any earlier.
It has not yet been officially determined, I half agreed to this four month business, during a meeting last week with my current supervisor and I have another meeting with my new supervisor on Monday. Part of me wants to give two weeks and just move on because I am angry that my current supervisor does not have my interests at heart, but I also don’t want to burn bridges either.
Can I force the two month notice without jeopardizing my next steps with the company?
transition
edited Apr 19 '15 at 15:34
nvoigt
42.6k18105147
asked Apr 19 '15 at 14:13
Lae Wander
82
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
My company has two offices, one on the East Coast and one on the West Coast. I recently decided to move to the West Coast city, for personal reasons. I am moving in four months.
Each office has different departments and at one point, I had not decided whether I would plan on transferring, applying to a different department or resign altogether. However, recently an upper manager, from the West Coast office, got wind of the move and approached me to offer a position in a different department, which is available now.
I spoke with my current supervisor and gave her all the details and accepted the new position. It was then up to both managers to discuss the transition timeline. I expressed my desire to have an equal compromise and to spend the next two months training and preparing my successor here on the East Coast and the last two months spending that time training and working remotely until I move to the West Coast for the new role.
Did I mention I am taking a pay cut for this new position? It is a compromise for me on a personal level as well.
My new supervisor agreed the compromise timeline, would work well for the new department, they could cover something temporarily until I can start completely. Well my current manager does not agree with this compromise and plans to have me continue in my current role for the next four months. Actually, more work will be put on my plate and thus resulting in the reason why I cannot leave any earlier.
It has not yet been officially determined, I half agreed to this four month business, during a meeting last week with my current supervisor and I have another meeting with my new supervisor on Monday. Part of me wants to give two weeks and just move on because I am angry that my current supervisor does not have my interests at heart, but I also don’t want to burn bridges either.
Can I force the two month notice without jeopardizing my next steps with the company?
transition
edited Apr 19 '15 at 15:34
nvoigt
42.6k18105147
asked Apr 19 '15 at 14:13
Lae Wander
82
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
My company has two offices, one on the East Coast and one on the West Coast. I recently decided to move to the West Coast city, for personal reasons. I am moving in four months.
Each office has different departments and at one point, I had not decided whether I would plan on transferring, applying to a different department or resign altogether. However, recently an upper manager, from the West Coast office, got wind of the move and approached me to offer a position in a different department, which is available now.
I spoke with my current supervisor and gave her all the details and accepted the new position. It was then up to both managers to discuss the transition timeline. I expressed my desire to have an equal compromise and to spend the next two months training and preparing my successor here on the East Coast and the last two months spending that time training and working remotely until I move to the West Coast for the new role.
Did I mention I am taking a pay cut for this new position? It is a compromise for me on a personal level as well.
My new supervisor agreed the compromise timeline, would work well for the new department, they could cover something temporarily until I can start completely. Well my current manager does not agree with this compromise and plans to have me continue in my current role for the next four months. Actually, more work will be put on my plate and thus resulting in the reason why I cannot leave any earlier.
It has not yet been officially determined, I half agreed to this four month business, during a meeting last week with my current supervisor and I have another meeting with my new supervisor on Monday. Part of me wants to give two weeks and just move on because I am angry that my current supervisor does not have my interests at heart, but I also don’t want to burn bridges either.
Can I force the two month notice without jeopardizing my next steps with the company?
transition
edited Apr 19 '15 at 15:34
nvoigt
42.6k18105147
asked Apr 19 '15 at 14:13
Lae Wander
82
My company has two offices, one on the East Coast and one on the West Coast. I recently decided to move to the West Coast city, for personal reasons. I am moving in four months.
Each office has different departments and at one point, I had not decided whether I would plan on transferring, applying to a different department or resign altogether. However, recently an upper manager, from the West Coast office, got wind of the move and approached me to offer a position in a different department, which is available now.
I spoke with my current supervisor and gave her all the details and accepted the new position. It was then up to both managers to discuss the transition timeline. I expressed my desire to have an equal compromise and to spend the next two months training and preparing my successor here on the East Coast and the last two months spending that time training and working remotely until I move to the West Coast for the new role.
Did I mention I am taking a pay cut for this new position? It is a compromise for me on a personal level as well.
My new supervisor agreed the compromise timeline, would work well for the new department, they could cover something temporarily until I can start completely. Well my current manager does not agree with this compromise and plans to have me continue in my current role for the next four months. Actually, more work will be put on my plate and thus resulting in the reason why I cannot leave any earlier.
It has not yet been officially determined, I half agreed to this four month business, during a meeting last week with my current supervisor and I have another meeting with my new supervisor on Monday. Part of me wants to give two weeks and just move on because I am angry that my current supervisor does not have my interests at heart, but I also don’t want to burn bridges either.
Can I force the two month notice without jeopardizing my next steps with the company?
transition
edited Apr 19 '15 at 15:34
nvoigt
42.6k18105147
asked Apr 19 '15 at 14:13
Lae Wander
82
edited Apr 19 '15 at 15:34
nvoigt
42.6k18105147
edited Apr 19 '15 at 15:34
nvoigt
42.6k18105147
edited Apr 19 '15 at 15:34
nvoigt
42.6k18105147
42.6k18105147
asked Apr 19 '15 at 14:13
Lae Wander
82
asked Apr 19 '15 at 14:13
Lae Wander
82
asked Apr 19 '15 at 14:13
Lae Wander
82
82
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You have the same dilemma that almost everyone has when transitioning between jobs at the same company, except that your issue is magnified by your move and the timing of the move.
Let's go over the good things. You company thinks you are valuable. Basically you have two managers fighting over your time. This doesn't happen if the managers thought you were a bad employee.
What I suggest? Move on from current supervisor. Don't let them guilt you into doing more work or degrading your new opportunity. Even if you have to backtrack a bit from a personal conversation, so what.
Also I would speak to your new manager and just go over your issues. I wouldn't complain about what is going on but would be matter of fact - "I can only do one job, or 50/50 on two jobs. My current manager wants me to do my old job at 100%." Your new manager is your advocate. Your old manager just wants an employee as long as they can get.
In most companies HR will allow your current manager to start the hiring process now that you have accepted the new job. I don't blame your current manager for trying to hold on to you. I would try to hire someone and let you train them a bit or hand over major things to them.
Your new manager will have to work directly with your old manager or quite possibly an intermediary in HR or upper-management. The fact that you said that upper-management approached you for the new job bodes well for them getting their way.
The verdict? You are fine. You may have to deal with a crabby supervisor for a while. Most of the time this is only for a few days/week after a decision about your time is made.
Talk to new manager, voice your wishes with both managers (don't go back and forth), let the managers/management decide, and live with it until you are on the west coast. The biggest thing is just forget about current supervisor. You are breaking up with them. They are taking it hard and want to keep you as long as possible. Don't get emotional with your current supervisor or get involved with any games. Be professional and just move on.
answered Apr 20 '15 at 6:10
blankip
19.9k74781
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
3
down vote
There are all kinds of interests here at work. You should get your two managers to meet, and work out a compromise. Then you can simply execute that compromise. This might involve people higher up, but that is up to your managers. Managing these kinds of compromises is their job.
I would also not take the behavior of your current manager too personally. He or she has obligations to fulfill, and counted on you being available. You should remove yourself as the go between, and let the managers deal with this directly. In addition, you can express your preference, but ultimately the company decides how this transitionary period is done.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:31
Paul Hiemstra
3,8451621
1
Additionally, I would refrain from describing the plan to spend two months in your current department and two months working remotely for your new department as a "compromise" plan. If your current manager doesn't accept it at all, it's not a compromise, it's just something that one party wants.
– Carson63000
Apr 20 '15 at 6:03
@Carson63000 I'd say it's a "suggested compromise" as I imagine ideally both the current and the new department would want the OP working for them the full 4 months.
– Cronax
Apr 20 '15 at 11:58
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
0
down vote
This is a tough one. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I can give a few thoughts:
First, I would start job hunting on the West Coast. I believe your existing manager is setting you up for failure (intentionally or not; see below.) When you're not able to meet the increased workload they just put upon you (not your fault) you'll probably get bad marks at the company. This will affect your new position on the West Coast. Have a plan B.
Second, I would schedule a one to one meeting with your existing manager and ask them how you are supposed to train your replacement if you have all this other work to do. Study their response carefully. Try to determine if they are doing this for punitive reasons. If they are, you're in a tough spot and may need to leave the company.
If you determine that they are unintentionally messing with you, do whatever you can to work with them to ease your workload. Make an honest effort to succeed.
Again, I'm not sure there's a good way out of this one. But at least try.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:39
Kurt Tappe
73135
suggest improvements |Â
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You have the same dilemma that almost everyone has when transitioning between jobs at the same company, except that your issue is magnified by your move and the timing of the move.
Let's go over the good things. You company thinks you are valuable. Basically you have two managers fighting over your time. This doesn't happen if the managers thought you were a bad employee.
What I suggest? Move on from current supervisor. Don't let them guilt you into doing more work or degrading your new opportunity. Even if you have to backtrack a bit from a personal conversation, so what.
Also I would speak to your new manager and just go over your issues. I wouldn't complain about what is going on but would be matter of fact - "I can only do one job, or 50/50 on two jobs. My current manager wants me to do my old job at 100%." Your new manager is your advocate. Your old manager just wants an employee as long as they can get.
In most companies HR will allow your current manager to start the hiring process now that you have accepted the new job. I don't blame your current manager for trying to hold on to you. I would try to hire someone and let you train them a bit or hand over major things to them.
Your new manager will have to work directly with your old manager or quite possibly an intermediary in HR or upper-management. The fact that you said that upper-management approached you for the new job bodes well for them getting their way.
The verdict? You are fine. You may have to deal with a crabby supervisor for a while. Most of the time this is only for a few days/week after a decision about your time is made.
Talk to new manager, voice your wishes with both managers (don't go back and forth), let the managers/management decide, and live with it until you are on the west coast. The biggest thing is just forget about current supervisor. You are breaking up with them. They are taking it hard and want to keep you as long as possible. Don't get emotional with your current supervisor or get involved with any games. Be professional and just move on.
answered Apr 20 '15 at 6:10
blankip
19.9k74781
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You have the same dilemma that almost everyone has when transitioning between jobs at the same company, except that your issue is magnified by your move and the timing of the move.
Let's go over the good things. You company thinks you are valuable. Basically you have two managers fighting over your time. This doesn't happen if the managers thought you were a bad employee.
What I suggest? Move on from current supervisor. Don't let them guilt you into doing more work or degrading your new opportunity. Even if you have to backtrack a bit from a personal conversation, so what.
Also I would speak to your new manager and just go over your issues. I wouldn't complain about what is going on but would be matter of fact - "I can only do one job, or 50/50 on two jobs. My current manager wants me to do my old job at 100%." Your new manager is your advocate. Your old manager just wants an employee as long as they can get.
In most companies HR will allow your current manager to start the hiring process now that you have accepted the new job. I don't blame your current manager for trying to hold on to you. I would try to hire someone and let you train them a bit or hand over major things to them.
Your new manager will have to work directly with your old manager or quite possibly an intermediary in HR or upper-management. The fact that you said that upper-management approached you for the new job bodes well for them getting their way.
The verdict? You are fine. You may have to deal with a crabby supervisor for a while. Most of the time this is only for a few days/week after a decision about your time is made.
Talk to new manager, voice your wishes with both managers (don't go back and forth), let the managers/management decide, and live with it until you are on the west coast. The biggest thing is just forget about current supervisor. You are breaking up with them. They are taking it hard and want to keep you as long as possible. Don't get emotional with your current supervisor or get involved with any games. Be professional and just move on.
answered Apr 20 '15 at 6:10
blankip
19.9k74781
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
up vote
5
down vote
accepted
You have the same dilemma that almost everyone has when transitioning between jobs at the same company, except that your issue is magnified by your move and the timing of the move.
Let's go over the good things. You company thinks you are valuable. Basically you have two managers fighting over your time. This doesn't happen if the managers thought you were a bad employee.
What I suggest? Move on from current supervisor. Don't let them guilt you into doing more work or degrading your new opportunity. Even if you have to backtrack a bit from a personal conversation, so what.
Also I would speak to your new manager and just go over your issues. I wouldn't complain about what is going on but would be matter of fact - "I can only do one job, or 50/50 on two jobs. My current manager wants me to do my old job at 100%." Your new manager is your advocate. Your old manager just wants an employee as long as they can get.
In most companies HR will allow your current manager to start the hiring process now that you have accepted the new job. I don't blame your current manager for trying to hold on to you. I would try to hire someone and let you train them a bit or hand over major things to them.
Your new manager will have to work directly with your old manager or quite possibly an intermediary in HR or upper-management. The fact that you said that upper-management approached you for the new job bodes well for them getting their way.
The verdict? You are fine. You may have to deal with a crabby supervisor for a while. Most of the time this is only for a few days/week after a decision about your time is made.
Talk to new manager, voice your wishes with both managers (don't go back and forth), let the managers/management decide, and live with it until you are on the west coast. The biggest thing is just forget about current supervisor. You are breaking up with them. They are taking it hard and want to keep you as long as possible. Don't get emotional with your current supervisor or get involved with any games. Be professional and just move on.
answered Apr 20 '15 at 6:10
blankip
19.9k74781
You have the same dilemma that almost everyone has when transitioning between jobs at the same company, except that your issue is magnified by your move and the timing of the move.
Let's go over the good things. You company thinks you are valuable. Basically you have two managers fighting over your time. This doesn't happen if the managers thought you were a bad employee.
What I suggest? Move on from current supervisor. Don't let them guilt you into doing more work or degrading your new opportunity. Even if you have to backtrack a bit from a personal conversation, so what.
Also I would speak to your new manager and just go over your issues. I wouldn't complain about what is going on but would be matter of fact - "I can only do one job, or 50/50 on two jobs. My current manager wants me to do my old job at 100%." Your new manager is your advocate. Your old manager just wants an employee as long as they can get.
In most companies HR will allow your current manager to start the hiring process now that you have accepted the new job. I don't blame your current manager for trying to hold on to you. I would try to hire someone and let you train them a bit or hand over major things to them.
Your new manager will have to work directly with your old manager or quite possibly an intermediary in HR or upper-management. The fact that you said that upper-management approached you for the new job bodes well for them getting their way.
The verdict? You are fine. You may have to deal with a crabby supervisor for a while. Most of the time this is only for a few days/week after a decision about your time is made.
Talk to new manager, voice your wishes with both managers (don't go back and forth), let the managers/management decide, and live with it until you are on the west coast. The biggest thing is just forget about current supervisor. You are breaking up with them. They are taking it hard and want to keep you as long as possible. Don't get emotional with your current supervisor or get involved with any games. Be professional and just move on.
answered Apr 20 '15 at 6:10
blankip
19.9k74781
answered Apr 20 '15 at 6:10
blankip
19.9k74781
answered Apr 20 '15 at 6:10
blankip
19.9k74781
answered Apr 20 '15 at 6:10
blankip
19.9k74781
19.9k74781
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
3
down vote
There are all kinds of interests here at work. You should get your two managers to meet, and work out a compromise. Then you can simply execute that compromise. This might involve people higher up, but that is up to your managers. Managing these kinds of compromises is their job.
I would also not take the behavior of your current manager too personally. He or she has obligations to fulfill, and counted on you being available. You should remove yourself as the go between, and let the managers deal with this directly. In addition, you can express your preference, but ultimately the company decides how this transitionary period is done.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:31
Paul Hiemstra
3,8451621
1
Additionally, I would refrain from describing the plan to spend two months in your current department and two months working remotely for your new department as a "compromise" plan. If your current manager doesn't accept it at all, it's not a compromise, it's just something that one party wants.
– Carson63000
Apr 20 '15 at 6:03
@Carson63000 I'd say it's a "suggested compromise" as I imagine ideally both the current and the new department would want the OP working for them the full 4 months.
– Cronax
Apr 20 '15 at 11:58
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
3
down vote
There are all kinds of interests here at work. You should get your two managers to meet, and work out a compromise. Then you can simply execute that compromise. This might involve people higher up, but that is up to your managers. Managing these kinds of compromises is their job.
I would also not take the behavior of your current manager too personally. He or she has obligations to fulfill, and counted on you being available. You should remove yourself as the go between, and let the managers deal with this directly. In addition, you can express your preference, but ultimately the company decides how this transitionary period is done.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:31
Paul Hiemstra
3,8451621
1
Additionally, I would refrain from describing the plan to spend two months in your current department and two months working remotely for your new department as a "compromise" plan. If your current manager doesn't accept it at all, it's not a compromise, it's just something that one party wants.
– Carson63000
Apr 20 '15 at 6:03
@Carson63000 I'd say it's a "suggested compromise" as I imagine ideally both the current and the new department would want the OP working for them the full 4 months.
– Cronax
Apr 20 '15 at 11:58
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
There are all kinds of interests here at work. You should get your two managers to meet, and work out a compromise. Then you can simply execute that compromise. This might involve people higher up, but that is up to your managers. Managing these kinds of compromises is their job.
I would also not take the behavior of your current manager too personally. He or she has obligations to fulfill, and counted on you being available. You should remove yourself as the go between, and let the managers deal with this directly. In addition, you can express your preference, but ultimately the company decides how this transitionary period is done.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:31
Paul Hiemstra
3,8451621
There are all kinds of interests here at work. You should get your two managers to meet, and work out a compromise. Then you can simply execute that compromise. This might involve people higher up, but that is up to your managers. Managing these kinds of compromises is their job.
I would also not take the behavior of your current manager too personally. He or she has obligations to fulfill, and counted on you being available. You should remove yourself as the go between, and let the managers deal with this directly. In addition, you can express your preference, but ultimately the company decides how this transitionary period is done.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:31
Paul Hiemstra
3,8451621
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:31
Paul Hiemstra
3,8451621
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:31
Paul Hiemstra
3,8451621
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:31
Paul Hiemstra
3,8451621
3,8451621
1
Additionally, I would refrain from describing the plan to spend two months in your current department and two months working remotely for your new department as a "compromise" plan. If your current manager doesn't accept it at all, it's not a compromise, it's just something that one party wants.
– Carson63000
Apr 20 '15 at 6:03
@Carson63000 I'd say it's a "suggested compromise" as I imagine ideally both the current and the new department would want the OP working for them the full 4 months.
– Cronax
Apr 20 '15 at 11:58
suggest improvements |Â
1
Additionally, I would refrain from describing the plan to spend two months in your current department and two months working remotely for your new department as a "compromise" plan. If your current manager doesn't accept it at all, it's not a compromise, it's just something that one party wants.
– Carson63000
Apr 20 '15 at 6:03
@Carson63000 I'd say it's a "suggested compromise" as I imagine ideally both the current and the new department would want the OP working for them the full 4 months.
– Cronax
Apr 20 '15 at 11:58
1
1
Additionally, I would refrain from describing the plan to spend two months in your current department and two months working remotely for your new department as a "compromise" plan. If your current manager doesn't accept it at all, it's not a compromise, it's just something that one party wants.
– Carson63000
Apr 20 '15 at 6:03
Additionally, I would refrain from describing the plan to spend two months in your current department and two months working remotely for your new department as a "compromise" plan. If your current manager doesn't accept it at all, it's not a compromise, it's just something that one party wants.
– Carson63000
Apr 20 '15 at 6:03
@Carson63000 I'd say it's a "suggested compromise" as I imagine ideally both the current and the new department would want the OP working for them the full 4 months.
– Cronax
Apr 20 '15 at 11:58
@Carson63000 I'd say it's a "suggested compromise" as I imagine ideally both the current and the new department would want the OP working for them the full 4 months.
– Cronax
Apr 20 '15 at 11:58
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
0
down vote
This is a tough one. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I can give a few thoughts:
First, I would start job hunting on the West Coast. I believe your existing manager is setting you up for failure (intentionally or not; see below.) When you're not able to meet the increased workload they just put upon you (not your fault) you'll probably get bad marks at the company. This will affect your new position on the West Coast. Have a plan B.
Second, I would schedule a one to one meeting with your existing manager and ask them how you are supposed to train your replacement if you have all this other work to do. Study their response carefully. Try to determine if they are doing this for punitive reasons. If they are, you're in a tough spot and may need to leave the company.
If you determine that they are unintentionally messing with you, do whatever you can to work with them to ease your workload. Make an honest effort to succeed.
Again, I'm not sure there's a good way out of this one. But at least try.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:39
Kurt Tappe
73135
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
0
down vote
This is a tough one. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I can give a few thoughts:
First, I would start job hunting on the West Coast. I believe your existing manager is setting you up for failure (intentionally or not; see below.) When you're not able to meet the increased workload they just put upon you (not your fault) you'll probably get bad marks at the company. This will affect your new position on the West Coast. Have a plan B.
Second, I would schedule a one to one meeting with your existing manager and ask them how you are supposed to train your replacement if you have all this other work to do. Study their response carefully. Try to determine if they are doing this for punitive reasons. If they are, you're in a tough spot and may need to leave the company.
If you determine that they are unintentionally messing with you, do whatever you can to work with them to ease your workload. Make an honest effort to succeed.
Again, I'm not sure there's a good way out of this one. But at least try.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:39
Kurt Tappe
73135
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
This is a tough one. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I can give a few thoughts:
First, I would start job hunting on the West Coast. I believe your existing manager is setting you up for failure (intentionally or not; see below.) When you're not able to meet the increased workload they just put upon you (not your fault) you'll probably get bad marks at the company. This will affect your new position on the West Coast. Have a plan B.
Second, I would schedule a one to one meeting with your existing manager and ask them how you are supposed to train your replacement if you have all this other work to do. Study their response carefully. Try to determine if they are doing this for punitive reasons. If they are, you're in a tough spot and may need to leave the company.
If you determine that they are unintentionally messing with you, do whatever you can to work with them to ease your workload. Make an honest effort to succeed.
Again, I'm not sure there's a good way out of this one. But at least try.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:39
Kurt Tappe
73135
This is a tough one. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I can give a few thoughts:
First, I would start job hunting on the West Coast. I believe your existing manager is setting you up for failure (intentionally or not; see below.) When you're not able to meet the increased workload they just put upon you (not your fault) you'll probably get bad marks at the company. This will affect your new position on the West Coast. Have a plan B.
Second, I would schedule a one to one meeting with your existing manager and ask them how you are supposed to train your replacement if you have all this other work to do. Study their response carefully. Try to determine if they are doing this for punitive reasons. If they are, you're in a tough spot and may need to leave the company.
If you determine that they are unintentionally messing with you, do whatever you can to work with them to ease your workload. Make an honest effort to succeed.
Again, I'm not sure there's a good way out of this one. But at least try.
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:39
Kurt Tappe
73135
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:39
Kurt Tappe
73135
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:39
Kurt Tappe
73135
answered Apr 19 '15 at 14:39
Kurt Tappe
73135
73135
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