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Retaining employees during a period of high attrition. (Convince senior managers to increase their pay?)
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I work in middle management for a 15 member team, 12 of whom are inexperienced and in need of training.
The problem is the 3 experienced members were not happy with their compensation, and have been demanding more for quite some time.
Upper management is silent on this issue. I know that the experienced employees are attending interviews outside the company, although they're unaware I know about their job hunting.
I've approached upper management, asking them to revise the experienced employees' compensation, because they are crucial for the project, but my immediate manager doesn't care.
The 12 new members cannot be easily trained if the experienced staff quit. How can I make my manager understand this?
management
edited Apr 5 '15 at 10:50
yochannah
4,21462747
asked Apr 4 '15 at 18:12
Falaki
191
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I work in middle management for a 15 member team, 12 of whom are inexperienced and in need of training.
The problem is the 3 experienced members were not happy with their compensation, and have been demanding more for quite some time.
Upper management is silent on this issue. I know that the experienced employees are attending interviews outside the company, although they're unaware I know about their job hunting.
I've approached upper management, asking them to revise the experienced employees' compensation, because they are crucial for the project, but my immediate manager doesn't care.
The 12 new members cannot be easily trained if the experienced staff quit. How can I make my manager understand this?
management
edited Apr 5 '15 at 10:50
yochannah
4,21462747
asked Apr 4 '15 at 18:12
Falaki
191
2
Although if you're presenting your arguments in the same sort of language as you're using here ("egotistical", "doesn't care about anything") that's a different problem.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 18:48
This really needs editing. It sounds like your company doesn't value the experience of it's staff, it's filled the team with novices and it won't pay it's experienced staff properly. Are you asking what you can do about that?
– Nathan Cooper
Apr 4 '15 at 19:34
@NathanCooper err... yeah. Blatantly not a duplicate of what I flagged it as a duplicate of. Close vote retracted, although I entirely agree it needs editing.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 19:40
2
So your "approaching" didn't work. Management reserves its right and prerogative to be short-sighted. WHY are you continuing to bang your head against the wall - you can't take "no" or "I don't give a damn" for an answer? Why do you insist on trying to save people from themselves?
– Vietnhi Phuvan
Apr 4 '15 at 20:13
1
what is your responsibility regarding the hiring of the 12 inexperienced team members? Where are they in their training? If they are not providing value to the team, how many people are needed to perform the functions of the team?
– mhoran_psprep
Apr 4 '15 at 20:14
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I work in middle management for a 15 member team, 12 of whom are inexperienced and in need of training.
The problem is the 3 experienced members were not happy with their compensation, and have been demanding more for quite some time.
Upper management is silent on this issue. I know that the experienced employees are attending interviews outside the company, although they're unaware I know about their job hunting.
I've approached upper management, asking them to revise the experienced employees' compensation, because they are crucial for the project, but my immediate manager doesn't care.
The 12 new members cannot be easily trained if the experienced staff quit. How can I make my manager understand this?
management
edited Apr 5 '15 at 10:50
yochannah
4,21462747
asked Apr 4 '15 at 18:12
Falaki
191
I work in middle management for a 15 member team, 12 of whom are inexperienced and in need of training.
The problem is the 3 experienced members were not happy with their compensation, and have been demanding more for quite some time.
Upper management is silent on this issue. I know that the experienced employees are attending interviews outside the company, although they're unaware I know about their job hunting.
I've approached upper management, asking them to revise the experienced employees' compensation, because they are crucial for the project, but my immediate manager doesn't care.
The 12 new members cannot be easily trained if the experienced staff quit. How can I make my manager understand this?
management
edited Apr 5 '15 at 10:50
yochannah
4,21462747
asked Apr 4 '15 at 18:12
Falaki
191
edited Apr 5 '15 at 10:50
yochannah
4,21462747
edited Apr 5 '15 at 10:50
yochannah
4,21462747
edited Apr 5 '15 at 10:50
yochannah
4,21462747
4,21462747
asked Apr 4 '15 at 18:12
Falaki
191
asked Apr 4 '15 at 18:12
Falaki
191
asked Apr 4 '15 at 18:12
Falaki
191
191
2
Although if you're presenting your arguments in the same sort of language as you're using here ("egotistical", "doesn't care about anything") that's a different problem.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 18:48
This really needs editing. It sounds like your company doesn't value the experience of it's staff, it's filled the team with novices and it won't pay it's experienced staff properly. Are you asking what you can do about that?
– Nathan Cooper
Apr 4 '15 at 19:34
@NathanCooper err... yeah. Blatantly not a duplicate of what I flagged it as a duplicate of. Close vote retracted, although I entirely agree it needs editing.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 19:40
2
So your "approaching" didn't work. Management reserves its right and prerogative to be short-sighted. WHY are you continuing to bang your head against the wall - you can't take "no" or "I don't give a damn" for an answer? Why do you insist on trying to save people from themselves?
– Vietnhi Phuvan
Apr 4 '15 at 20:13
1
what is your responsibility regarding the hiring of the 12 inexperienced team members? Where are they in their training? If they are not providing value to the team, how many people are needed to perform the functions of the team?
– mhoran_psprep
Apr 4 '15 at 20:14
 |Â
show 2 more comments
2
Although if you're presenting your arguments in the same sort of language as you're using here ("egotistical", "doesn't care about anything") that's a different problem.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 18:48
This really needs editing. It sounds like your company doesn't value the experience of it's staff, it's filled the team with novices and it won't pay it's experienced staff properly. Are you asking what you can do about that?
– Nathan Cooper
Apr 4 '15 at 19:34
@NathanCooper err... yeah. Blatantly not a duplicate of what I flagged it as a duplicate of. Close vote retracted, although I entirely agree it needs editing.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 19:40
2
So your "approaching" didn't work. Management reserves its right and prerogative to be short-sighted. WHY are you continuing to bang your head against the wall - you can't take "no" or "I don't give a damn" for an answer? Why do you insist on trying to save people from themselves?
– Vietnhi Phuvan
Apr 4 '15 at 20:13
1
what is your responsibility regarding the hiring of the 12 inexperienced team members? Where are they in their training? If they are not providing value to the team, how many people are needed to perform the functions of the team?
– mhoran_psprep
Apr 4 '15 at 20:14
2
2
Although if you're presenting your arguments in the same sort of language as you're using here ("egotistical", "doesn't care about anything") that's a different problem.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 18:48
Although if you're presenting your arguments in the same sort of language as you're using here ("egotistical", "doesn't care about anything") that's a different problem.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 18:48
This really needs editing. It sounds like your company doesn't value the experience of it's staff, it's filled the team with novices and it won't pay it's experienced staff properly. Are you asking what you can do about that?
– Nathan Cooper
Apr 4 '15 at 19:34
This really needs editing. It sounds like your company doesn't value the experience of it's staff, it's filled the team with novices and it won't pay it's experienced staff properly. Are you asking what you can do about that?
– Nathan Cooper
Apr 4 '15 at 19:34
@NathanCooper err... yeah. Blatantly not a duplicate of what I flagged it as a duplicate of. Close vote retracted, although I entirely agree it needs editing.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 19:40
@NathanCooper err... yeah. Blatantly not a duplicate of what I flagged it as a duplicate of. Close vote retracted, although I entirely agree it needs editing.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 19:40
2
2
So your "approaching" didn't work. Management reserves its right and prerogative to be short-sighted. WHY are you continuing to bang your head against the wall - you can't take "no" or "I don't give a damn" for an answer? Why do you insist on trying to save people from themselves?
– Vietnhi Phuvan
Apr 4 '15 at 20:13
So your "approaching" didn't work. Management reserves its right and prerogative to be short-sighted. WHY are you continuing to bang your head against the wall - you can't take "no" or "I don't give a damn" for an answer? Why do you insist on trying to save people from themselves?
– Vietnhi Phuvan
Apr 4 '15 at 20:13
1
1
what is your responsibility regarding the hiring of the 12 inexperienced team members? Where are they in their training? If they are not providing value to the team, how many people are needed to perform the functions of the team?
– mhoran_psprep
Apr 4 '15 at 20:14
what is your responsibility regarding the hiring of the 12 inexperienced team members? Where are they in their training? If they are not providing value to the team, how many people are needed to perform the functions of the team?
– mhoran_psprep
Apr 4 '15 at 20:14
 |Â
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Chances are that the 3 senior people won't quit. And the 12 new employees will be trained, and all this without giving the 3 senior people any raises.
Going on a job hunt is not the same thing as quitting. They also have to get offers and then accept them. Once the first senior person quits, your comments may carry some weight, and the senior people may get raises. Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.
Keep in mind that until there is real attrition, management would be foolish to pre-emptively give raises. If you want management to be worried about attrition, there has to be some attrition.
answered Apr 4 '15 at 23:43
Jay Godse
1,290710
2
Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.- I can't help but disagree. Management always needs to worry about attrition in this day and age, especially since their competent staff have been complaining already.
– Telastyn
Apr 5 '15 at 13:22
4
Loss of productivity is almost the same thing as attrition. If they're actively interviewing, you've lost their hearts, and they're not putting their hearts into their work. That is something quantifiable that management should be worried about. But you're right, these managers are not going worry about people leaving until people actually leave. You can't give everyone who threatens to leave a raise, but this case doesn't look like a bunch of entitled employees trying to manipulate their company.
– Kent A.
Apr 5 '15 at 13:53
I agree that the employees don't seem entitled and manipulative. But management doesn't know that the senior employees are looking around. So it is entirely plausible for them to conclude that everything is fine.
– Jay Godse
Apr 6 '15 at 1:38
suggest improvements |Â
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Chances are that the 3 senior people won't quit. And the 12 new employees will be trained, and all this without giving the 3 senior people any raises.
Going on a job hunt is not the same thing as quitting. They also have to get offers and then accept them. Once the first senior person quits, your comments may carry some weight, and the senior people may get raises. Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.
Keep in mind that until there is real attrition, management would be foolish to pre-emptively give raises. If you want management to be worried about attrition, there has to be some attrition.
answered Apr 4 '15 at 23:43
Jay Godse
1,290710
2
Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.- I can't help but disagree. Management always needs to worry about attrition in this day and age, especially since their competent staff have been complaining already.
– Telastyn
Apr 5 '15 at 13:22
4
Loss of productivity is almost the same thing as attrition. If they're actively interviewing, you've lost their hearts, and they're not putting their hearts into their work. That is something quantifiable that management should be worried about. But you're right, these managers are not going worry about people leaving until people actually leave. You can't give everyone who threatens to leave a raise, but this case doesn't look like a bunch of entitled employees trying to manipulate their company.
– Kent A.
Apr 5 '15 at 13:53
I agree that the employees don't seem entitled and manipulative. But management doesn't know that the senior employees are looking around. So it is entirely plausible for them to conclude that everything is fine.
– Jay Godse
Apr 6 '15 at 1:38
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Chances are that the 3 senior people won't quit. And the 12 new employees will be trained, and all this without giving the 3 senior people any raises.
Going on a job hunt is not the same thing as quitting. They also have to get offers and then accept them. Once the first senior person quits, your comments may carry some weight, and the senior people may get raises. Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.
Keep in mind that until there is real attrition, management would be foolish to pre-emptively give raises. If you want management to be worried about attrition, there has to be some attrition.
answered Apr 4 '15 at 23:43
Jay Godse
1,290710
2
Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.- I can't help but disagree. Management always needs to worry about attrition in this day and age, especially since their competent staff have been complaining already.
– Telastyn
Apr 5 '15 at 13:22
4
Loss of productivity is almost the same thing as attrition. If they're actively interviewing, you've lost their hearts, and they're not putting their hearts into their work. That is something quantifiable that management should be worried about. But you're right, these managers are not going worry about people leaving until people actually leave. You can't give everyone who threatens to leave a raise, but this case doesn't look like a bunch of entitled employees trying to manipulate their company.
– Kent A.
Apr 5 '15 at 13:53
I agree that the employees don't seem entitled and manipulative. But management doesn't know that the senior employees are looking around. So it is entirely plausible for them to conclude that everything is fine.
– Jay Godse
Apr 6 '15 at 1:38
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Chances are that the 3 senior people won't quit. And the 12 new employees will be trained, and all this without giving the 3 senior people any raises.
Going on a job hunt is not the same thing as quitting. They also have to get offers and then accept them. Once the first senior person quits, your comments may carry some weight, and the senior people may get raises. Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.
Keep in mind that until there is real attrition, management would be foolish to pre-emptively give raises. If you want management to be worried about attrition, there has to be some attrition.
answered Apr 4 '15 at 23:43
Jay Godse
1,290710
Chances are that the 3 senior people won't quit. And the 12 new employees will be trained, and all this without giving the 3 senior people any raises.
Going on a job hunt is not the same thing as quitting. They also have to get offers and then accept them. Once the first senior person quits, your comments may carry some weight, and the senior people may get raises. Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.
Keep in mind that until there is real attrition, management would be foolish to pre-emptively give raises. If you want management to be worried about attrition, there has to be some attrition.
answered Apr 4 '15 at 23:43
Jay Godse
1,290710
answered Apr 4 '15 at 23:43
Jay Godse
1,290710
answered Apr 4 '15 at 23:43
Jay Godse
1,290710
answered Apr 4 '15 at 23:43
Jay Godse
1,290710
1,290710
2
Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.- I can't help but disagree. Management always needs to worry about attrition in this day and age, especially since their competent staff have been complaining already.
– Telastyn
Apr 5 '15 at 13:22
4
Loss of productivity is almost the same thing as attrition. If they're actively interviewing, you've lost their hearts, and they're not putting their hearts into their work. That is something quantifiable that management should be worried about. But you're right, these managers are not going worry about people leaving until people actually leave. You can't give everyone who threatens to leave a raise, but this case doesn't look like a bunch of entitled employees trying to manipulate their company.
– Kent A.
Apr 5 '15 at 13:53
I agree that the employees don't seem entitled and manipulative. But management doesn't know that the senior employees are looking around. So it is entirely plausible for them to conclude that everything is fine.
– Jay Godse
Apr 6 '15 at 1:38
suggest improvements |Â
2
Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition.- I can't help but disagree. Management always needs to worry about attrition in this day and age, especially since their competent staff have been complaining already.
– Telastyn
Apr 5 '15 at 13:22
4
Loss of productivity is almost the same thing as attrition. If they're actively interviewing, you've lost their hearts, and they're not putting their hearts into their work. That is something quantifiable that management should be worried about. But you're right, these managers are not going worry about people leaving until people actually leave. You can't give everyone who threatens to leave a raise, but this case doesn't look like a bunch of entitled employees trying to manipulate their company.
– Kent A.
Apr 5 '15 at 13:53
I agree that the employees don't seem entitled and manipulative. But management doesn't know that the senior employees are looking around. So it is entirely plausible for them to conclude that everything is fine.
– Jay Godse
Apr 6 '15 at 1:38
2
2
Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition. - I can't help but disagree. Management always needs to worry about attrition in this day and age, especially since their competent staff have been complaining already.– Telastyn
Apr 5 '15 at 13:22
Until then, management has no reason to worry about attrition. - I can't help but disagree. Management always needs to worry about attrition in this day and age, especially since their competent staff have been complaining already.– Telastyn
Apr 5 '15 at 13:22
4
4
Loss of productivity is almost the same thing as attrition. If they're actively interviewing, you've lost their hearts, and they're not putting their hearts into their work. That is something quantifiable that management should be worried about. But you're right, these managers are not going worry about people leaving until people actually leave. You can't give everyone who threatens to leave a raise, but this case doesn't look like a bunch of entitled employees trying to manipulate their company.
– Kent A.
Apr 5 '15 at 13:53
Loss of productivity is almost the same thing as attrition. If they're actively interviewing, you've lost their hearts, and they're not putting their hearts into their work. That is something quantifiable that management should be worried about. But you're right, these managers are not going worry about people leaving until people actually leave. You can't give everyone who threatens to leave a raise, but this case doesn't look like a bunch of entitled employees trying to manipulate their company.
– Kent A.
Apr 5 '15 at 13:53
I agree that the employees don't seem entitled and manipulative. But management doesn't know that the senior employees are looking around. So it is entirely plausible for them to conclude that everything is fine.
– Jay Godse
Apr 6 '15 at 1:38
I agree that the employees don't seem entitled and manipulative. But management doesn't know that the senior employees are looking around. So it is entirely plausible for them to conclude that everything is fine.
– Jay Godse
Apr 6 '15 at 1:38
suggest improvements |Â
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2
Although if you're presenting your arguments in the same sort of language as you're using here ("egotistical", "doesn't care about anything") that's a different problem.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 18:48
This really needs editing. It sounds like your company doesn't value the experience of it's staff, it's filled the team with novices and it won't pay it's experienced staff properly. Are you asking what you can do about that?
– Nathan Cooper
Apr 4 '15 at 19:34
@NathanCooper err... yeah. Blatantly not a duplicate of what I flagged it as a duplicate of. Close vote retracted, although I entirely agree it needs editing.
– Philip Kendall
Apr 4 '15 at 19:40
2
So your "approaching" didn't work. Management reserves its right and prerogative to be short-sighted. WHY are you continuing to bang your head against the wall - you can't take "no" or "I don't give a damn" for an answer? Why do you insist on trying to save people from themselves?
– Vietnhi Phuvan
Apr 4 '15 at 20:13
1
what is your responsibility regarding the hiring of the 12 inexperienced team members? Where are they in their training? If they are not providing value to the team, how many people are needed to perform the functions of the team?
– mhoran_psprep
Apr 4 '15 at 20:14