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Being asked to abandon personal projects for a position in a startup
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I've been in talks with a startup founder who has decided to hire me. I've been studying web development for the last couple years and put up an ad for a part-time job, not expecting much. I cited a project that I've been working on in the ad which the employer took particular interest in.
I've just been sent the employment agreement, and they've asked that I shutdown the project, and cease any further work on my projects. I have no interest in competing with this company's work.
I'd like to know, is being asked to abandon personal projects a common request by employers?
job-offer equity
edited Mar 10 '15 at 9:10
Philipp
20.3k34884
asked Mar 10 '15 at 8:36
Mike Anderson
274
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
I've been in talks with a startup founder who has decided to hire me. I've been studying web development for the last couple years and put up an ad for a part-time job, not expecting much. I cited a project that I've been working on in the ad which the employer took particular interest in.
I've just been sent the employment agreement, and they've asked that I shutdown the project, and cease any further work on my projects. I have no interest in competing with this company's work.
I'd like to know, is being asked to abandon personal projects a common request by employers?
job-offer equity
edited Mar 10 '15 at 9:10
Philipp
20.3k34884
asked Mar 10 '15 at 8:36
Mike Anderson
274
1
Welcome to workplace stackexchange. This website is for anwering questions about the workplace which are applicable to a wide audience, not to tell you what personal career decision to make. That's why I removed the parts of the question which are only applicable to your personal decision-making.
– Philipp
Mar 10 '15 at 9:11
I have to say this is new to me. I've encountered non-compete clauses, and others saying that any IP created in your spare time is still the property of the employer, but haven't heard of people being asked to stop personal projects (unless they're obviously competing). I'd be interested to hear the answers to this. Just to clarify - you say you have no interest in competing, but is there a chance your personal project could compete with them? If so, this may be why.
– user29632
Mar 10 '15 at 9:28
7
That's BS, man. This startup founder is full of himself. I've never been told to shutdown a side project by an employer, and would balk if I were.
– James Adam
Mar 10 '15 at 12:45
3
Are you not allowed to do personal projects because they've already layed claim to your free time? May be a reason to be wary.
– Nathan Cooper
Mar 10 '15 at 15:52
4
The ONLY time that request would be appropriate is if you were being offered an ownership interest in the company. Not stock options, not equity vested over time, but a straight-up ownership.
– Wesley Long
Mar 10 '15 at 17:00
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
I've been in talks with a startup founder who has decided to hire me. I've been studying web development for the last couple years and put up an ad for a part-time job, not expecting much. I cited a project that I've been working on in the ad which the employer took particular interest in.
I've just been sent the employment agreement, and they've asked that I shutdown the project, and cease any further work on my projects. I have no interest in competing with this company's work.
I'd like to know, is being asked to abandon personal projects a common request by employers?
job-offer equity
edited Mar 10 '15 at 9:10
Philipp
20.3k34884
asked Mar 10 '15 at 8:36
Mike Anderson
274
I've been in talks with a startup founder who has decided to hire me. I've been studying web development for the last couple years and put up an ad for a part-time job, not expecting much. I cited a project that I've been working on in the ad which the employer took particular interest in.
I've just been sent the employment agreement, and they've asked that I shutdown the project, and cease any further work on my projects. I have no interest in competing with this company's work.
I'd like to know, is being asked to abandon personal projects a common request by employers?
job-offer equity
edited Mar 10 '15 at 9:10
Philipp
20.3k34884
asked Mar 10 '15 at 8:36
Mike Anderson
274
edited Mar 10 '15 at 9:10
Philipp
20.3k34884
edited Mar 10 '15 at 9:10
Philipp
20.3k34884
edited Mar 10 '15 at 9:10
Philipp
20.3k34884
20.3k34884
asked Mar 10 '15 at 8:36
Mike Anderson
274
asked Mar 10 '15 at 8:36
Mike Anderson
274
asked Mar 10 '15 at 8:36
Mike Anderson
274
274
1
Welcome to workplace stackexchange. This website is for anwering questions about the workplace which are applicable to a wide audience, not to tell you what personal career decision to make. That's why I removed the parts of the question which are only applicable to your personal decision-making.
– Philipp
Mar 10 '15 at 9:11
I have to say this is new to me. I've encountered non-compete clauses, and others saying that any IP created in your spare time is still the property of the employer, but haven't heard of people being asked to stop personal projects (unless they're obviously competing). I'd be interested to hear the answers to this. Just to clarify - you say you have no interest in competing, but is there a chance your personal project could compete with them? If so, this may be why.
– user29632
Mar 10 '15 at 9:28
7
That's BS, man. This startup founder is full of himself. I've never been told to shutdown a side project by an employer, and would balk if I were.
– James Adam
Mar 10 '15 at 12:45
3
Are you not allowed to do personal projects because they've already layed claim to your free time? May be a reason to be wary.
– Nathan Cooper
Mar 10 '15 at 15:52
4
The ONLY time that request would be appropriate is if you were being offered an ownership interest in the company. Not stock options, not equity vested over time, but a straight-up ownership.
– Wesley Long
Mar 10 '15 at 17:00
 |Â
show 4 more comments
1
Welcome to workplace stackexchange. This website is for anwering questions about the workplace which are applicable to a wide audience, not to tell you what personal career decision to make. That's why I removed the parts of the question which are only applicable to your personal decision-making.
– Philipp
Mar 10 '15 at 9:11
I have to say this is new to me. I've encountered non-compete clauses, and others saying that any IP created in your spare time is still the property of the employer, but haven't heard of people being asked to stop personal projects (unless they're obviously competing). I'd be interested to hear the answers to this. Just to clarify - you say you have no interest in competing, but is there a chance your personal project could compete with them? If so, this may be why.
– user29632
Mar 10 '15 at 9:28
7
That's BS, man. This startup founder is full of himself. I've never been told to shutdown a side project by an employer, and would balk if I were.
– James Adam
Mar 10 '15 at 12:45
3
Are you not allowed to do personal projects because they've already layed claim to your free time? May be a reason to be wary.
– Nathan Cooper
Mar 10 '15 at 15:52
4
The ONLY time that request would be appropriate is if you were being offered an ownership interest in the company. Not stock options, not equity vested over time, but a straight-up ownership.
– Wesley Long
Mar 10 '15 at 17:00
1
1
Welcome to workplace stackexchange. This website is for anwering questions about the workplace which are applicable to a wide audience, not to tell you what personal career decision to make. That's why I removed the parts of the question which are only applicable to your personal decision-making.
– Philipp
Mar 10 '15 at 9:11
Welcome to workplace stackexchange. This website is for anwering questions about the workplace which are applicable to a wide audience, not to tell you what personal career decision to make. That's why I removed the parts of the question which are only applicable to your personal decision-making.
– Philipp
Mar 10 '15 at 9:11
I have to say this is new to me. I've encountered non-compete clauses, and others saying that any IP created in your spare time is still the property of the employer, but haven't heard of people being asked to stop personal projects (unless they're obviously competing). I'd be interested to hear the answers to this. Just to clarify - you say you have no interest in competing, but is there a chance your personal project could compete with them? If so, this may be why.
– user29632
Mar 10 '15 at 9:28
I have to say this is new to me. I've encountered non-compete clauses, and others saying that any IP created in your spare time is still the property of the employer, but haven't heard of people being asked to stop personal projects (unless they're obviously competing). I'd be interested to hear the answers to this. Just to clarify - you say you have no interest in competing, but is there a chance your personal project could compete with them? If so, this may be why.
– user29632
Mar 10 '15 at 9:28
7
7
That's BS, man. This startup founder is full of himself. I've never been told to shutdown a side project by an employer, and would balk if I were.
– James Adam
Mar 10 '15 at 12:45
That's BS, man. This startup founder is full of himself. I've never been told to shutdown a side project by an employer, and would balk if I were.
– James Adam
Mar 10 '15 at 12:45
3
3
Are you not allowed to do personal projects because they've already layed claim to your free time? May be a reason to be wary.
– Nathan Cooper
Mar 10 '15 at 15:52
Are you not allowed to do personal projects because they've already layed claim to your free time? May be a reason to be wary.
– Nathan Cooper
Mar 10 '15 at 15:52
4
4
The ONLY time that request would be appropriate is if you were being offered an ownership interest in the company. Not stock options, not equity vested over time, but a straight-up ownership.
– Wesley Long
Mar 10 '15 at 17:00
The ONLY time that request would be appropriate is if you were being offered an ownership interest in the company. Not stock options, not equity vested over time, but a straight-up ownership.
– Wesley Long
Mar 10 '15 at 17:00
 |Â
show 4 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
Different employers have different stances regarding personal side-projects of their employees:
- They encourage it, because that way employees train skills which are also beneficial in their day-job.
- They don't care what their employees do when off the clock, as long as they do not directly compete with them.
- They discourage it, because when the employees have side-jobs they no longer focus completely on their day-job and their performance might suffer. Also, there is a risk that when their side-projects become successful, critical employees might leave to focus on their project full-time.
Your local work laws and court decisions might also have something to say about which of these stances is considered reasonable in your jurisdiction. But that would only be of interest when you are fired because of a side-project. When starting a job, starting it with threatening a lawsuit is not a very good idea.
When the company you currently negotiate with is in the latter category, then you have to decide for yourself how much money your personal project is worth to you. When the wage they offer doesn't cover it, you don't have to take it.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 9:36
Philipp
20.3k34884
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
9
down vote
So they took an interest in you because of this project and then stipulate you need to shut the project down.
It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company.
Their fear is probably the product might be successful and you will leave to pursue it. But it is still not a reasonable request.
I had a start up say the same thing to me and I asked them what next - I cannot play in a softball league? I pointed out that 2 of the partners currently did private consulting and even conducted business in the facility during work hours.
The same company then tried to hired me as a contractor and asked me to sign a non-compete and at the same time said the rate would be lower for the first few months while I was learning the business (I already had the all the software skills). I said you cannot have it both ways - learning your business is of no value to me with a non-compete. They hired me at the full rate.
Start ups will get full of themselves. You just have to hold your ground.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:12
paparazzo
33.3k657106
+1 for "It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company." What you do during time they don't pay you for is none of their business unless you've signed an agreement that they own any work you do during your employment with them (somewhat common in large corporations that do R&D or small companies that are convinced--usually wrongly--that they're doing something novel). But personally, an agreement like that would be an absolute no-go for me.
– Past9
Mar 12 '15 at 18:16
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Startups are notoriously greedy with the time of their employees, this is just one example.
All employers, but especially startups, want you to be minding their business as much as possible. Legally, you must mind their business for a pre-agreed upon span of time, usually Monday to Friday, 9-5.
The remainder of your time (evenings and weekends) are not yet spoken for. If possible, your employer would like you to be minding their business during all this time, which could include
- Staying late at the office
- Attending the office on the weekend
- Spending personal time thinking about or resolving work issues
- Spending personal time learning new skills that are mostly applicable at work
The problem here is that if you are spending all your time minding your employer's business, then no one is minding your business!
So, in short, yes your employer can ask you to abandon your projects, stay late, or otherwise "mind their business all the time", but you should be careful about accepting such a deal.
In my opinion it is not a good deal because, regardless of how much you get paid, if you have no time to take care of your business then you will never get ahead.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 17:47
Code Whisperer
1,822618
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
3
down vote
The only way I would see this as legitimate is if this particular personal project would be in direct competion with what they are building and you could take what you learned working for them and apply it to a project that is directly competing with them. For instance if they are in the business of building an application for realtors to do a better job of helping prospective customers find what they are looking for. Then if you are also building a real estate app, they have a legitimate concern that you will take their proprietary knowdlege and use it to dsteal their customers with your personal project. If however, you are building a fancy new game, well that's a different story.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:57
HLGEM
133k25226489
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up vote
0
down vote
In the event that your personal project is in direct completion with them then you just have to be careful about using inside knowledge to further your project ( although if you have a non compete then you should drop the project )
If it's not in direct completion with them then you should make them aware that since you are working on it during time where they are not paying you then it's none of their damn business , although you could let them know that if it a serious concern to them then you are willing to take a pay hike to drop the project ( and said proposed hike should take into account the fact that they need to cover the remaining 16 hours of each weekday plus 24 hours of Saturday and Sunday )
answered Mar 10 '15 at 23:53
Damian Nikodem
592310
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
Different employers have different stances regarding personal side-projects of their employees:
- They encourage it, because that way employees train skills which are also beneficial in their day-job.
- They don't care what their employees do when off the clock, as long as they do not directly compete with them.
- They discourage it, because when the employees have side-jobs they no longer focus completely on their day-job and their performance might suffer. Also, there is a risk that when their side-projects become successful, critical employees might leave to focus on their project full-time.
Your local work laws and court decisions might also have something to say about which of these stances is considered reasonable in your jurisdiction. But that would only be of interest when you are fired because of a side-project. When starting a job, starting it with threatening a lawsuit is not a very good idea.
When the company you currently negotiate with is in the latter category, then you have to decide for yourself how much money your personal project is worth to you. When the wage they offer doesn't cover it, you don't have to take it.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 9:36
Philipp
20.3k34884
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
10
down vote
Different employers have different stances regarding personal side-projects of their employees:
- They encourage it, because that way employees train skills which are also beneficial in their day-job.
- They don't care what their employees do when off the clock, as long as they do not directly compete with them.
- They discourage it, because when the employees have side-jobs they no longer focus completely on their day-job and their performance might suffer. Also, there is a risk that when their side-projects become successful, critical employees might leave to focus on their project full-time.
Your local work laws and court decisions might also have something to say about which of these stances is considered reasonable in your jurisdiction. But that would only be of interest when you are fired because of a side-project. When starting a job, starting it with threatening a lawsuit is not a very good idea.
When the company you currently negotiate with is in the latter category, then you have to decide for yourself how much money your personal project is worth to you. When the wage they offer doesn't cover it, you don't have to take it.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 9:36
Philipp
20.3k34884
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
10
down vote
up vote
10
down vote
Different employers have different stances regarding personal side-projects of their employees:
- They encourage it, because that way employees train skills which are also beneficial in their day-job.
- They don't care what their employees do when off the clock, as long as they do not directly compete with them.
- They discourage it, because when the employees have side-jobs they no longer focus completely on their day-job and their performance might suffer. Also, there is a risk that when their side-projects become successful, critical employees might leave to focus on their project full-time.
Your local work laws and court decisions might also have something to say about which of these stances is considered reasonable in your jurisdiction. But that would only be of interest when you are fired because of a side-project. When starting a job, starting it with threatening a lawsuit is not a very good idea.
When the company you currently negotiate with is in the latter category, then you have to decide for yourself how much money your personal project is worth to you. When the wage they offer doesn't cover it, you don't have to take it.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 9:36
Philipp
20.3k34884
Different employers have different stances regarding personal side-projects of their employees:
- They encourage it, because that way employees train skills which are also beneficial in their day-job.
- They don't care what their employees do when off the clock, as long as they do not directly compete with them.
- They discourage it, because when the employees have side-jobs they no longer focus completely on their day-job and their performance might suffer. Also, there is a risk that when their side-projects become successful, critical employees might leave to focus on their project full-time.
Your local work laws and court decisions might also have something to say about which of these stances is considered reasonable in your jurisdiction. But that would only be of interest when you are fired because of a side-project. When starting a job, starting it with threatening a lawsuit is not a very good idea.
When the company you currently negotiate with is in the latter category, then you have to decide for yourself how much money your personal project is worth to you. When the wage they offer doesn't cover it, you don't have to take it.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 9:36
Philipp
20.3k34884
edited Mar 10 '15 at 10:18
answered Mar 10 '15 at 9:36
Philipp
20.3k34884
answered Mar 10 '15 at 9:36
Philipp
20.3k34884
answered Mar 10 '15 at 9:36
Philipp
20.3k34884
20.3k34884
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
9
down vote
So they took an interest in you because of this project and then stipulate you need to shut the project down.
It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company.
Their fear is probably the product might be successful and you will leave to pursue it. But it is still not a reasonable request.
I had a start up say the same thing to me and I asked them what next - I cannot play in a softball league? I pointed out that 2 of the partners currently did private consulting and even conducted business in the facility during work hours.
The same company then tried to hired me as a contractor and asked me to sign a non-compete and at the same time said the rate would be lower for the first few months while I was learning the business (I already had the all the software skills). I said you cannot have it both ways - learning your business is of no value to me with a non-compete. They hired me at the full rate.
Start ups will get full of themselves. You just have to hold your ground.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:12
paparazzo
33.3k657106
+1 for "It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company." What you do during time they don't pay you for is none of their business unless you've signed an agreement that they own any work you do during your employment with them (somewhat common in large corporations that do R&D or small companies that are convinced--usually wrongly--that they're doing something novel). But personally, an agreement like that would be an absolute no-go for me.
– Past9
Mar 12 '15 at 18:16
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
9
down vote
So they took an interest in you because of this project and then stipulate you need to shut the project down.
It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company.
Their fear is probably the product might be successful and you will leave to pursue it. But it is still not a reasonable request.
I had a start up say the same thing to me and I asked them what next - I cannot play in a softball league? I pointed out that 2 of the partners currently did private consulting and even conducted business in the facility during work hours.
The same company then tried to hired me as a contractor and asked me to sign a non-compete and at the same time said the rate would be lower for the first few months while I was learning the business (I already had the all the software skills). I said you cannot have it both ways - learning your business is of no value to me with a non-compete. They hired me at the full rate.
Start ups will get full of themselves. You just have to hold your ground.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:12
paparazzo
33.3k657106
+1 for "It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company." What you do during time they don't pay you for is none of their business unless you've signed an agreement that they own any work you do during your employment with them (somewhat common in large corporations that do R&D or small companies that are convinced--usually wrongly--that they're doing something novel). But personally, an agreement like that would be an absolute no-go for me.
– Past9
Mar 12 '15 at 18:16
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
So they took an interest in you because of this project and then stipulate you need to shut the project down.
It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company.
Their fear is probably the product might be successful and you will leave to pursue it. But it is still not a reasonable request.
I had a start up say the same thing to me and I asked them what next - I cannot play in a softball league? I pointed out that 2 of the partners currently did private consulting and even conducted business in the facility during work hours.
The same company then tried to hired me as a contractor and asked me to sign a non-compete and at the same time said the rate would be lower for the first few months while I was learning the business (I already had the all the software skills). I said you cannot have it both ways - learning your business is of no value to me with a non-compete. They hired me at the full rate.
Start ups will get full of themselves. You just have to hold your ground.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:12
paparazzo
33.3k657106
So they took an interest in you because of this project and then stipulate you need to shut the project down.
It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company.
Their fear is probably the product might be successful and you will leave to pursue it. But it is still not a reasonable request.
I had a start up say the same thing to me and I asked them what next - I cannot play in a softball league? I pointed out that 2 of the partners currently did private consulting and even conducted business in the facility during work hours.
The same company then tried to hired me as a contractor and asked me to sign a non-compete and at the same time said the rate would be lower for the first few months while I was learning the business (I already had the all the software skills). I said you cannot have it both ways - learning your business is of no value to me with a non-compete. They hired me at the full rate.
Start ups will get full of themselves. You just have to hold your ground.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:12
paparazzo
33.3k657106
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:12
paparazzo
33.3k657106
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:12
paparazzo
33.3k657106
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:12
paparazzo
33.3k657106
33.3k657106
+1 for "It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company." What you do during time they don't pay you for is none of their business unless you've signed an agreement that they own any work you do during your employment with them (somewhat common in large corporations that do R&D or small companies that are convinced--usually wrongly--that they're doing something novel). But personally, an agreement like that would be an absolute no-go for me.
– Past9
Mar 12 '15 at 18:16
suggest improvements |Â
+1 for "It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company." What you do during time they don't pay you for is none of their business unless you've signed an agreement that they own any work you do during your employment with them (somewhat common in large corporations that do R&D or small companies that are convinced--usually wrongly--that they're doing something novel). But personally, an agreement like that would be an absolute no-go for me.
– Past9
Mar 12 '15 at 18:16
+1 for "It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company." What you do during time they don't pay you for is none of their business unless you've signed an agreement that they own any work you do during your employment with them (somewhat common in large corporations that do R&D or small companies that are convinced--usually wrongly--that they're doing something novel). But personally, an agreement like that would be an absolute no-go for me.
– Past9
Mar 12 '15 at 18:16
+1 for "It is not reasonable for a company to tell you what you can do on your spare time if it does not compete with or conflict with the company." What you do during time they don't pay you for is none of their business unless you've signed an agreement that they own any work you do during your employment with them (somewhat common in large corporations that do R&D or small companies that are convinced--usually wrongly--that they're doing something novel). But personally, an agreement like that would be an absolute no-go for me.
– Past9
Mar 12 '15 at 18:16
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Startups are notoriously greedy with the time of their employees, this is just one example.
All employers, but especially startups, want you to be minding their business as much as possible. Legally, you must mind their business for a pre-agreed upon span of time, usually Monday to Friday, 9-5.
The remainder of your time (evenings and weekends) are not yet spoken for. If possible, your employer would like you to be minding their business during all this time, which could include
- Staying late at the office
- Attending the office on the weekend
- Spending personal time thinking about or resolving work issues
- Spending personal time learning new skills that are mostly applicable at work
The problem here is that if you are spending all your time minding your employer's business, then no one is minding your business!
So, in short, yes your employer can ask you to abandon your projects, stay late, or otherwise "mind their business all the time", but you should be careful about accepting such a deal.
In my opinion it is not a good deal because, regardless of how much you get paid, if you have no time to take care of your business then you will never get ahead.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 17:47
Code Whisperer
1,822618
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Startups are notoriously greedy with the time of their employees, this is just one example.
All employers, but especially startups, want you to be minding their business as much as possible. Legally, you must mind their business for a pre-agreed upon span of time, usually Monday to Friday, 9-5.
The remainder of your time (evenings and weekends) are not yet spoken for. If possible, your employer would like you to be minding their business during all this time, which could include
- Staying late at the office
- Attending the office on the weekend
- Spending personal time thinking about or resolving work issues
- Spending personal time learning new skills that are mostly applicable at work
The problem here is that if you are spending all your time minding your employer's business, then no one is minding your business!
So, in short, yes your employer can ask you to abandon your projects, stay late, or otherwise "mind their business all the time", but you should be careful about accepting such a deal.
In my opinion it is not a good deal because, regardless of how much you get paid, if you have no time to take care of your business then you will never get ahead.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 17:47
Code Whisperer
1,822618
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Startups are notoriously greedy with the time of their employees, this is just one example.
All employers, but especially startups, want you to be minding their business as much as possible. Legally, you must mind their business for a pre-agreed upon span of time, usually Monday to Friday, 9-5.
The remainder of your time (evenings and weekends) are not yet spoken for. If possible, your employer would like you to be minding their business during all this time, which could include
- Staying late at the office
- Attending the office on the weekend
- Spending personal time thinking about or resolving work issues
- Spending personal time learning new skills that are mostly applicable at work
The problem here is that if you are spending all your time minding your employer's business, then no one is minding your business!
So, in short, yes your employer can ask you to abandon your projects, stay late, or otherwise "mind their business all the time", but you should be careful about accepting such a deal.
In my opinion it is not a good deal because, regardless of how much you get paid, if you have no time to take care of your business then you will never get ahead.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 17:47
Code Whisperer
1,822618
Startups are notoriously greedy with the time of their employees, this is just one example.
All employers, but especially startups, want you to be minding their business as much as possible. Legally, you must mind their business for a pre-agreed upon span of time, usually Monday to Friday, 9-5.
The remainder of your time (evenings and weekends) are not yet spoken for. If possible, your employer would like you to be minding their business during all this time, which could include
- Staying late at the office
- Attending the office on the weekend
- Spending personal time thinking about or resolving work issues
- Spending personal time learning new skills that are mostly applicable at work
The problem here is that if you are spending all your time minding your employer's business, then no one is minding your business!
So, in short, yes your employer can ask you to abandon your projects, stay late, or otherwise "mind their business all the time", but you should be careful about accepting such a deal.
In my opinion it is not a good deal because, regardless of how much you get paid, if you have no time to take care of your business then you will never get ahead.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 17:47
Code Whisperer
1,822618
answered Mar 10 '15 at 17:47
Code Whisperer
1,822618
answered Mar 10 '15 at 17:47
Code Whisperer
1,822618
answered Mar 10 '15 at 17:47
Code Whisperer
1,822618
1,822618
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
3
down vote
The only way I would see this as legitimate is if this particular personal project would be in direct competion with what they are building and you could take what you learned working for them and apply it to a project that is directly competing with them. For instance if they are in the business of building an application for realtors to do a better job of helping prospective customers find what they are looking for. Then if you are also building a real estate app, they have a legitimate concern that you will take their proprietary knowdlege and use it to dsteal their customers with your personal project. If however, you are building a fancy new game, well that's a different story.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:57
HLGEM
133k25226489
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up vote
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The only way I would see this as legitimate is if this particular personal project would be in direct competion with what they are building and you could take what you learned working for them and apply it to a project that is directly competing with them. For instance if they are in the business of building an application for realtors to do a better job of helping prospective customers find what they are looking for. Then if you are also building a real estate app, they have a legitimate concern that you will take their proprietary knowdlege and use it to dsteal their customers with your personal project. If however, you are building a fancy new game, well that's a different story.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:57
HLGEM
133k25226489
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
The only way I would see this as legitimate is if this particular personal project would be in direct competion with what they are building and you could take what you learned working for them and apply it to a project that is directly competing with them. For instance if they are in the business of building an application for realtors to do a better job of helping prospective customers find what they are looking for. Then if you are also building a real estate app, they have a legitimate concern that you will take their proprietary knowdlege and use it to dsteal their customers with your personal project. If however, you are building a fancy new game, well that's a different story.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:57
HLGEM
133k25226489
The only way I would see this as legitimate is if this particular personal project would be in direct competion with what they are building and you could take what you learned working for them and apply it to a project that is directly competing with them. For instance if they are in the business of building an application for realtors to do a better job of helping prospective customers find what they are looking for. Then if you are also building a real estate app, they have a legitimate concern that you will take their proprietary knowdlege and use it to dsteal their customers with your personal project. If however, you are building a fancy new game, well that's a different story.
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:57
HLGEM
133k25226489
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:57
HLGEM
133k25226489
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:57
HLGEM
133k25226489
answered Mar 10 '15 at 16:57
HLGEM
133k25226489
133k25226489
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
0
down vote
In the event that your personal project is in direct completion with them then you just have to be careful about using inside knowledge to further your project ( although if you have a non compete then you should drop the project )
If it's not in direct completion with them then you should make them aware that since you are working on it during time where they are not paying you then it's none of their damn business , although you could let them know that if it a serious concern to them then you are willing to take a pay hike to drop the project ( and said proposed hike should take into account the fact that they need to cover the remaining 16 hours of each weekday plus 24 hours of Saturday and Sunday )
answered Mar 10 '15 at 23:53
Damian Nikodem
592310
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
0
down vote
In the event that your personal project is in direct completion with them then you just have to be careful about using inside knowledge to further your project ( although if you have a non compete then you should drop the project )
If it's not in direct completion with them then you should make them aware that since you are working on it during time where they are not paying you then it's none of their damn business , although you could let them know that if it a serious concern to them then you are willing to take a pay hike to drop the project ( and said proposed hike should take into account the fact that they need to cover the remaining 16 hours of each weekday plus 24 hours of Saturday and Sunday )
answered Mar 10 '15 at 23:53
Damian Nikodem
592310
suggest improvements |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
In the event that your personal project is in direct completion with them then you just have to be careful about using inside knowledge to further your project ( although if you have a non compete then you should drop the project )
If it's not in direct completion with them then you should make them aware that since you are working on it during time where they are not paying you then it's none of their damn business , although you could let them know that if it a serious concern to them then you are willing to take a pay hike to drop the project ( and said proposed hike should take into account the fact that they need to cover the remaining 16 hours of each weekday plus 24 hours of Saturday and Sunday )
answered Mar 10 '15 at 23:53
Damian Nikodem
592310
In the event that your personal project is in direct completion with them then you just have to be careful about using inside knowledge to further your project ( although if you have a non compete then you should drop the project )
If it's not in direct completion with them then you should make them aware that since you are working on it during time where they are not paying you then it's none of their damn business , although you could let them know that if it a serious concern to them then you are willing to take a pay hike to drop the project ( and said proposed hike should take into account the fact that they need to cover the remaining 16 hours of each weekday plus 24 hours of Saturday and Sunday )
answered Mar 10 '15 at 23:53
Damian Nikodem
592310
answered Mar 10 '15 at 23:53
Damian Nikodem
592310
answered Mar 10 '15 at 23:53
Damian Nikodem
592310
answered Mar 10 '15 at 23:53
Damian Nikodem
592310
592310
suggest improvements |Â
suggest improvements |Â
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1
Welcome to workplace stackexchange. This website is for anwering questions about the workplace which are applicable to a wide audience, not to tell you what personal career decision to make. That's why I removed the parts of the question which are only applicable to your personal decision-making.
– Philipp
Mar 10 '15 at 9:11
I have to say this is new to me. I've encountered non-compete clauses, and others saying that any IP created in your spare time is still the property of the employer, but haven't heard of people being asked to stop personal projects (unless they're obviously competing). I'd be interested to hear the answers to this. Just to clarify - you say you have no interest in competing, but is there a chance your personal project could compete with them? If so, this may be why.
– user29632
Mar 10 '15 at 9:28
7
That's BS, man. This startup founder is full of himself. I've never been told to shutdown a side project by an employer, and would balk if I were.
– James Adam
Mar 10 '15 at 12:45
3
Are you not allowed to do personal projects because they've already layed claim to your free time? May be a reason to be wary.
– Nathan Cooper
Mar 10 '15 at 15:52
4
The ONLY time that request would be appropriate is if you were being offered an ownership interest in the company. Not stock options, not equity vested over time, but a straight-up ownership.
– Wesley Long
Mar 10 '15 at 17:00